No. With a Twin Cam, get a tune even before a slip on. They are programmed very lean from the factory. Just get a Dynojet PowerVision & save youself some time and money. I did the Xieds & the FP3 1st, but they just didn't do enough so I bought the PV. When I traded in my Sporty, I was able to reuse my PV, Dynojet unlocked it for $199. I don't think you can reuse a V&H FP3. If I ever switch bikes again, they'll unlock it again too.
No. With a Twin Cam, get a tune even before a slip on. They are programmed very lean from the factory. Just get a Dynojet PowerVision & save youself some time and money. I did the Xieds & the FP3 1st, but they just didn't do enough so I bought the PV. When I traded in my Sporty, I was able to reuse my PV, Dynojet unlocked it for $199. I don't think you can reuse a V&H FP3. If I ever switch bikes again, they'll unlock it again too.
Yes and it ran like crap. Got a PowerVision and it changed everything. Then went with an intake and full exhaust and retuned. A stock bike will benefit greatly from a good tune.
You don’t need tune with M8. Even when you change AC and slip-ons. You will probably benefit from new tune, but it’s not necessary. It will run properly. M8’s are not set-up lean from the factory.
According to DK Customs dyno testing, the m8s are able to handle most AFR adj with ECM , and are not as lean as the twin cams were, and that the ECM seems to be able to handle stage 1 upgrades without the need for tuning. The O2 sensors seem to be doing their job. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there. I appreciate all efforts to clarify.
I bought my 103 that had slip ons and it didn't run very well. Added a high flow air box and it ran a little better. After that I decided to do the full stage one and it ran so much better.
When working with a Pot style fueler which is anyone that has the adjustable screws on it ,you really have to be ultra careful about water intrusion. Do not get them wet while washing your bike or riding in the rain I have seen several of them short out this way even though they may say solid state the potentiometers corrode and they stop working all the sudden the bike will start popping and run like crap and will not respond to any adjustments. If you have a bike with a cat 🐈 in the head pipe then adding more fuel will raise the exhaust pipe temps as the converter over heats its best to remove the cat or change head pipe
That's some really good points! I've had pretty good luck with those little tuners, I may not have had one long enough to have an issue with one though.
This was an outstanding segment on exhaust, even though I'm running a Mikuni 42 on my 95" twin cam, I still was able pick some valuable info from this video!
Have 98Flhtc with mikuni42 and slipons, ı have too much popups and ı have new bought thunder touque inserts (lolipops) ıhavent instal yet but lets see if it will stop the popings.I try to watch your videos and they are really usefull for me.Thanks for your efforts @GixxerFoo
I’ve had both a 2012 Sportster with a fuel pac and SE cleaner and one without the tuner and stock cleaner. Both had o2s v and h pipes. No doubt, the stage one would tear the other a new asshole, but I found the sound quite annoying. Sold it and find the non stage one sound to be great and for whatever reason great! And the fact is, it has enough power to get me in all the trouble I can afford for sure! Happy Days to all of you!
The stage one had big radius pipes and the other short shots and both had baffles. It could have been the big r pipes that I didn’t dig after about 10 minutes. I don’t know for sure. Or it could have been the stage one tune. I don’t know for sure. Some pipes sound great in the garage. But riding with them is another story. Can actually come back exhausted, for lack of a better term, noise annoyance or noise pollution! Heads fukin ringing. Helmet traps the sound and makes it even worse. I prefer to be motivated by the sound and exhausted from just hanging on!
I rode my Sportster stock for about a year and to honestly it sucked, hesitation and it ran very hot. I did nothing more than tune it with an FP3, stock exhaust and air cleaner. I hated myself for not just spending the money to at least tune it after that, it really came to life compared to stock! Cooler running, better throttle response, the difference was amazing!
I'm really over the loud pipes myself, I am debating about putting the quiet baffles in my exhaust. Adding the quiet baffles will knock down your top end power but you'll gain in the low to mid range torque!
@@GixxerFoo The difference in my situation is not the volume. With 2 different sportsters and a heritage, all equally as loud, I found only the tuned sportster to be annoying. I also have a 96 sporty that is chopped, and jetted with hooker pipes that doesn’t bother me a bit. So, only one out of four I find annoying. And it’s not even on acceleration but steady speed. There’s a certain drone sound, for lack of a better word. A hoolelolel. The others I just love the sound and can’t help myself always twisting the throttle more than necessary. Now, as far as innocent bystanders that don’t get it, they have problems with all of them! 😂
IDK, I've heard both sides, after I installed my Tab Performance (Zombie Baffle), seemed like my mile/fuel was off. When I took it in for my 5000 mile, HD recommended the Stage 1 for efficiency. My pipes were "blueing" I guess but I feel a difference in sound and performance. - 2023 Street Bob 114
As far as the M8 Softail and Touring bikes, DK Customs is showing you dont need a tuner at all with regular Stage 1. You'll need one for stage 1 with a manifold swap or higher stages.
I agree. I have 3 M8 114s, 2 of which I have open air boxes and slipons on 1 and the others Cobra 909s with a cross over. Both have 0 decel pop and run great. Now I do agree if I dumped more fuel it I may get more hp, but at this point I satisfied with the power and economy thats there.
@@rider14mcd63 I get About 450+ Km on my FXLRS Mostly highway which is well above Average.. Not Sure what it Converts to in MPG but with just Slip ons the Bike runs Perfect,, Not lean Nor hot..
A million thanks! Went with the Xied and bike is running like it should. I'm all stock, with the exception of slip-ons, but that radical fluctuating between high and low at idle is gone... Runs a lot cooler also... Again... Thank you... A simple $140 fix for 2017 Dyna Street Bob...
Great to hear! Not many people know about those Xied's, they are great option if your running under warranty too! I know exactly what you mean about the fluctuating RPM's, those bikes are starving for fuel.
Put the Exide's on my bought new 09 FXSTC. With the mandatory Kalifornia emissions tune, lean. Engine would cough and die in warm weather in city traffic at most inopportune times. Installed 3" Cycle Shack slip ons and Screaming A/C kit. Cooled oil temp by 20 degrees. Third gear WOT pulls strong to 5000 RPM my redline. MPG high 40's estimated at 70-75 MPH. Two up in cruising Las Vegas strip in 90F air temp engine runs fine. Best $100 you can spend on HD without going to a tuner and possibly hurting your warranty. Ride Safe
That's one of the best parts of the Xied's, you can pull them back off if you have to take the bike in for warranty work. They might see it in the data but can't prove anything with nothing flashed to the ECM. California has some strict emissions, add the traffic and the warm weather riding a bike with a stock tune just won't work.
You mentioned that sportsters didn't get o2 sensors until 2014, but that's wrong. Harley introduced o2 sensors on Dynas in 2006 and on all models in 2007. My wife's sportster is 2008 and has them.
That fuel moto sounds perfect for what I want to do. I just want to do a stage 1 on my slim. I can't stand decel popping and being able to, hopefully, mostly eliminate that would be awesome. Well I guess it's time to start buying an intake and exhaust 🤗. Great video as always!
Personally I cut out the baffles on my streetglide I didn’t tune it but I left the stock air box and the cat is still in the head pipe. It still runs perfect but I will be tuning it now that it’s off warranty
That cat in the head pipe will help with the back pressure for sure, it will be a whole new bike with a tune! Getting some fuel in the bike makes a huge difference in your riding experience!
Whatsup !! We got the 2021 Softail StreetBob for the Lil Miss and just wanted a little sound.. I put on the S&S Slashcut slipons and have run it for about 100 miles so the ECM would adjust the AFR.. NO decel pop at all ! Its smooth and strong. Ive thought about upping the fuel mix on her bike, but it seems the O2 sensors were adequate to accommodate the bikes needs.. I had put the FLIEDs on my 14 StreetG;ide, when I changed to full exhaust and airbox.. It ran exceptionally well that way.
I beg to differ. I put 4.5 slip on mufflers on my 17 ultra. Noticed the bike was surging. Dealer said oh you need a tune! Tuned it with a tuner, bike ran fine.
I can answer this question. My stock - except for German made Miller slip-on's - 2011 Heritage Softail 103 pops and farts badly on de-acceleration at nearly all rpm's...from low to high. I've been doing some online research, RUclips etc., and have decided to go with the PV3. If ever a motor needed remapping it's this one and the only deviation from stock are the slip-on's. They're not even open. They just allow slightly better flow and a nicer exhaust sound without breaking eardrums. If I were to fit a K&N air filter without some new mapping this bike would be unrideable due to the stock factory lean fuel parameters.
The fuel injected Twin Cams were run waaaay to lean from the factory to meet emissions. The motors weren't exactly designed to run that lean but they would do it just with excessive heat. Any little change in air flow on a FI twin cam even with just slip ons really needs a retune to adjust the fuel with a programmer of some kind. The new M8's do great without a remap and some Sportsters will get away without a remap just swapping for some slip on exhaust.
I have a '20 883 Iron full stock under warranty. I added 3" straight mufflers and lost a fair amount of low end and even a little mid end power. I made $5 lollipops and got back most my power. They only take up about 1/3rd the diameter of the muffler, so I'm going to make a pair about 1/2 the diameter, which I think should fix it. I didn't care about performance, just yet. I wanted it to be loud, and I totally got loud haha BUT I was surprised that I lost power. Anyways, I'm looking into going full stage 1 and maybe a basic 1255 Hammer kit, so I'm thinking FP3 tuner.
I would get a Power Vision if you end up doing the Hammer Kit, the FP3 is very capable and does the same thing as the Power Vision but you will have to manually enter everything for Hammer's map on your phone (it's a tremendous amount of information). It can be done, but it's risky and Hammer won't warranty any engine damage if you miss a cell. With the Power Vision Hammer will email you the map and you load that on your Power Vision and flash the bike. You can pick up a Power Vision through FuelMoto for around $400, that's the same price the FP3 is going for now. FP3 is great for pipes, air cleaner and cam, they just need a software package you can use on a computer and right now it operates in a cloud based system.
@@GixxerFoo sweet! I've always been great with carbs and EFI is something I barely have knowledge of. I've been looking lately and wasn't sure to go Screamin Eagle Street Pro to save my warranty, or V&H FP3 which most people were recommending on groups I'm in or Power Vision... which originally was the most expensive option until FP3 seemed to have raised their price? :-/ There's always option C of buying them all hahaha I'm about to go to MMI Harley specific school for 11 months, so it could be useful down the road working on other people's bikes? And... I am strongly considering the Basic Hammer kit w/ big fins for $699, so maybe I just need to listen to you, because my drive train warranty will be gone then anyways lol
@@mtwb13 The FP3 and the Screamin Eagle Tuner will lock to the Vin number forever so they will only tune that bike once it's flashed. Now the FP3 can be used on other bikes to read trouble codes, but the Power Vision you can buy a license to tune another bike. It's about 200 bucks but cheaper than another tuner, the Power Vision price has really come down. I bought the FP3 since it was 150 bucks cheaper years ago. EFI really isn't all that bad and it's a lot easier to make adjustments once you get the swing of using your tuner's software. When you talk to Hammer they will highly recommend the Power Vision and not just because they sell them. Flashing a map for your bikes setup is pretty easy and they generally run very well, maybe a little decel pop but it's pretty easy to add little fuel to fix that. Plus with the Power Vision it's what most dyno tuners use, they can literally tune another 15 horsepower into a motor using one.
Put an XIED on my bike and it seemed to work as far as cooling the bike down but did not eliminate my decel pop. I just got to break down and get a fuel pack for it
Pass on the Fuel Pack, and get the Powervision from FuelMoto USA. Fuelpack is 400$, PV from Fuelmoto USA is 400$. It's the same price from them, but way more tools and features, and it serves as a stand alone glass dash if you want to mount it to your bars. Saving your phone for GPS and stuff. Go with the PV.
I would look at the FP3 or Power Vision, there is the original Fuel Pak which was a inline fuel tuner and not a complete flash tuner. They want about as much for that unit as they the latest generation.
One question is why its a such big difference with a full exhaust and a slip on when even the slip on takes away the cat wich is the biggest flow resistence in the exhaust system?
I have power commander5. Fuel Moto has an amazing service dept! They help and solve any issues fast . I only have upgraded breather and Vance n Hines 2-1. I’m about to call Fuel Moto and see what I have to do to get another map for quieter exhaust I’m putting on
Another great video. Thanks Gixxerfoo. Am thinking about throwing some slip on mufflers, but throwing a tuner on it will void my warranty. Should be ok with just mufflers.
That's the bad part that a tune will void the warranty, at least part of it anyhow. You could go the XIED route if you have some fueling issues and it won't leave a mark on the ECM. Just remove them if you need warranty work.
I needed to hear this!! I bought a 14 SG that only had Vance and Hines twin slash slip ons. Next week I’m getting an air filter and a dynotune. Wait should I buy a tuner instead??
If you're going to have it tuned on the dyno, that's the best way to do it! The bike will be 100% dialed in for that setup on your specific motor. You can't be qualified tuner operating a dyno, flash tuners get close but they can't beat the dyno.
Thank you! Nice we finally got some sunshine around here, temperatures have been decent in the afternoon. Lol now if we can just get a break from the wind.
I have recently brought an 2013 883. I am thinking of changing the vance and Hines straight shots to short shots. It already has a stage 1 remap with a air cleaner. My question is, would it need tuning again or will it be a nice simple swap? It is also fitted with o2 sensors. Many thanks! 😆
The short shots are much shorter exhaust system so retuning would likely need to be done. If it's already tuned for the after market exhaust system it might run okay but for sure wouldn't hurt to correct the tune.
mine is not tunned and its not lean with full system and air filter big sucker , ,if it was lean it would turn header pipes deep purple / blue and run hot , runs fine 2020 street bob ,only goiing to have it dyno tuned after stage 2 using a 480 cam package
The M8's really seem to do really well without a tune after being modded. Harley did a lot of work on cam and valve timing to make those new motors work with the lean AFR. Street Bob is gonna rip with a cam and tune, those things are frickin light!
Merry Christmas and thanks for the informative Christmas Day video. Btw, finally got my 03 Dyna back on the road after new cam, cam plate, oil pump, lifters, and push rods. Runs great, a little decel popping... thinking about putting it on dyno, will let you know if I do.
@@GixxerFoo No, but I think maybe the carb was rejetted already, since its not having any issues that I've noticed other than the decel popping, which it did with the stock cam. Have V&H VO2 air cleaner system & V&H short shots on it too. It could possibly use a little additional tuning. Also replaced the AGM battery with a Li-Ion one...light & powerful.
Heck man this bikes need a tuner stock. They run crappy to me. Good luck adding slip ons or air filter.update I got a 21 road glide and the tuning on it was much better than my 17 ultra
All the vids I've watched are always about the newer bikes! But what about the older ones that are carbed? Like the 97 Road k King FLHR I have! Which is stock! Because I've also thought about removing the baffles! Which I can't find out about either on whether you should rejet the catb etc. Have a good one
@@GixxerFooThanks for the info The Evo is actually one of my favorite Harley engines! Very reliable for their time! My opinion of course have a great day man!
I have a 2014 with the 103ho and the stock open air cleaner,and a set of fat fishtails with no baffles...and I have a v&h fp3 tuner ..my question is if I decat my bike will I need to retune? And or will I loose hp?
Without baffles removing the cat will cut the low end power a bit, but wide open top end will gain. If you remove the cat l would check your FP3 map and flash the map for no baffle and then autotune if needed.
I have a 2011 Harley Davidson Sportster xl 1200 x 48 and it has o2 sensors. Bike to this date only has 1,350 miles my pips are a little light blue in places so that tells me I'm running a little lean. The only thing that was changed on it was the slip-on and it still has the factory breather.
The FI bikes run lean with the factory tuning, it's honestly too lean. It's alright to run with slip-ons and the factory air cleaner but if you put a new air cleaner on and a tune it will be like a rocket ship. Night and day difference, I first tuned my stock bike with a FP3 and did nothing else. Holy crap I was shocked and pissed I rode that bike for several years without a tune, it was way more responsive and had a whole lot more power.
My buddy has a 2021 sportster he is .looking at the cobra 909 exhaust....full pipes.... what is your suggestion? Do you think he will need a power commander? Will he damage the bike if he doesnt and what can he expect in the way of side affects... thanks for your time inadvance. Andrew.
2014 was the year they revised the closed loop system on the Sportster, fortunately for your year they ran a bit richer AFR. I should of specified that in the video.
@@GixxerFoo just never thought about it since it runs great. Gas mileage is fine etc. The thing is though that the O2 sensors in it, the plug ends don't match up to the bikes wiring as if they are some kind of after market sensor? Tried to reconnect them and can't. Would like to know more about it but not paying to find out from Harley dealership. Friend is buddy with one of their techs who briefly looked at it out of sight of his boss. It may also have different cams. He held his hands to the exhaust at idle and somehow from the timing of the exhaust hitting his hands came to that conclusion that it does. It also smokes by buddies 2016 103 Street Bob that has a Stage One done to it who has ridden it and says it pulls harder than his bike does. Anyway its going bye bye this summer for a Fat Boy Lo.
how about drilling out OEM mufflers? I'm assuming the net change is maybe comparable to swapping for slip-ons and therefore also might not require a tuner? 2004 FXSTi. Thanks
Drilling holes in the muffler you still have all the packing and chambers with the cat. Touring bike have the cat in the head pipe, on other models it's in the mufflers. You would get some sound out of them but not much.
Just bought a set of s&s spo ovals for 08 roadking with a 96 engine. Looks like the baffles have been removed except for about a 4 inch section at the tip. Was wondering if that will effect the way it runs. It does run a little rich with the screaming eagle slipons that it came with when I bought it. Great video. Keep up the good work
On the M8 you technically could do a exhaust swap with slip-ons and get away with it. It will have some sound but won't really have any performance benefits, a tune is all always highly recommended though.
@@GixxerFoo na we didn't make that ride, it's the first time in 6 years we weren't able to ride on Christmas day, and we really do it for my Mother that passed away on Christmas day of 2014, but I still went to the cemetery like I do every year, here's to wishing you and your family a better and healthier year ahead in 2021 brother ✌🏼 N ❤️💯
Replacing slip-ons never affected my performance. However, I'm fortunate enough to have a carb and all I had to do to get rid of the lean condition was replace 42 stock pilot jet with a 45 pilot jet. I had to clean the carb anyway, so changing the jet was an easy fix. My air cleaner is stock but I do have the crankcase venting to the atmosphere, so the air intake stays cool, clean and dry. Love it!!!! O2 sensors and mapping are not part of my life.
Do you know if the XIED will plug right into my 2013 FLHP? Will I notice a difference in performance? Great channel! Thank you for all the information!!
Cobra is good tuner, I believe you can use them on a different bike if you sell your current one too. I don't believe the Cobra actually marries to the VIN like a flash tuner.
@@GixxerFoo I don't know, both types from Cobra come set for your bike, then 1 auto makes adjustments and the other you can make minor adjustments What has bothered me about the auto tuner is it DOESN'T use O2 sensor Since I don't know enough about any of it, that was enough.
Dang yeah you guys have the serious emissions over there, if you can get away with it an aftermarket exhaust without it and a retune is the best way to go.
i pulled the carpet like baffles out of my slips on, started riding and lost too much fuel. could i just buy a new set of slips on and gain mileage back or do i need a retune?
Removing the baffles you'd need to retune, that's a very drastic change in exhaust flow. Without baffles you'll sacrifice your low and midrange power but gain on top.
how about this. I have a set of straight pipes on a 09 Dyna Street Bob. They have baffles in them. Stock air cleaner however I removed the part of the air cleaner housing that is close to the engine ya know with ugly air scoop thing. Now the back of my air cleaner is open . Can I remove the baffles in the straight pipes without a remap? I havent because I understand carbs but I dont know a lot about EFI. I also have a re usable air filter K&N not a paper element. At present time it never pops on decel. There is a electronic line that plugs into the air filter that is now unplugged since I removed that ugly crap . No idea what I unplugged LOL. I assume its a sensor. Mass Air flow perhaps? Doesnt matter the bike shows no codes on the dash when I run diagnostic. I havent removed the baffles because I dont know if that will cause a need for a remap. Im not interested in noise per se but I dont want to hinder performance. It runs great with the baffles in there. But If I can safely remove them I will. Pisses me off that my old ironhead is louder than a 96 inch power plant! Not that noise matters but hey loud pipes get pussy!
K&N filter inside stock box I removed the inner part of the air box its ugly so I had to unplug electrical going to the box I think that's mass air flow sensor?
I like how the V-Rod sounds without the back mufflers... Now I have a question. is it bad to run the V-Rod without the back mufflers even if I put a tuner on it?
It's not bad if it's tuned for it but your low end and mid range will suffer, now wide open it will greatly benefit you there. Trouble is you have to be redline wide open banging gears for it to benefit.
I changed my pipes from stock too, 2 brothers but never tuned it runs great though.. should I take it to harley and have never tune it..or wait till I get the next tune up Low Rider ST 24
Hello, My cycle is a 2021 H-D FLHCS 114. My question is: can a set of Samson 33" true dual fishtail mufflers with baffles be installed without additional tuning? Headpipes will accept OEM narrow band O2 cencors. At this point no modification to the intake are planned. Thank you, Ernie Sawyer
If you're doing just mufflers with the stock head pipes you'll be good to go. If you're replacing the head pipes too you'll need to get a tune on the bike.
Hello and thanks for the speedy reply. The Samson true dual system in question is a full exhaust system: headpipes and baffled fishtail mufflers (part # S- 670-1). There are conflicting opinions if the complete exhaust system can be bolted on and ridden without a tune provided the intake remains stock from the factory. The new Samson headpipes do accept narrow band O2 cencors. How does replacement of the stock headpipes to the Samson headers affect the tuning so much? Just want to do my homework before breaking out the tools and the bank. ES
Hi - I'm thinking of installing the twin slash Vance & Hines slip on pipes on my 2009 Ultra Classic H-D and are wondering if I'll experience decel popping? I do have the stock air filter and not planning on changing anything ot getting it tuned. What do you think?
With the touring bike you are less likely to hear decel popping with the catalytic converter in the head pipe. For sure keep the stock air cleaner on as you mentioned but you may still experience some decel popping with how lean those bikes are. When you get a tune it will take care of that. My dad has Vrod he bought used that came with just slip ons on it and that thing decel popped bad, you could really tell it did not have a tune. Added a Power Vision tuner and a K&N air cleaner in the air box and it was good to go with no more decel pop.
Aren't Power Commander's just a down load type of device? You can't do any tuning with a Power Commander, or am I wrong here. Something like a TTS is for actual tuning, I think?
Power Commander is inline plug in module, you can make some minor adjustments with them but they don't actually flash the ECM. A TTS, Power Vision, FP3 these actually flash and reprogram the ECM itself.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for the reply, I just had my Indian ftr reflashed(?) with a PC3.Took the tech about 10 minutes to find and down load the map for my application. Noticeable improvement for my bike. Apparently it's pretty close to being dialed in. Would still like to get the bike up on a dyno to see the actual numbers as far as horsepower, torque and the air fuel ratio. As it stands right now I have no idea with regards to all that.
Speaking on slip ons do you have information about two brothers racing comp s touring exhaust on an m8 107 ? sound and performance potential?? thank you ahead of time, also one of my favorite Harley channels probably my favorite.
I just bought a 08 street glide with cobra slip ons and intake. He never put a tuner on it. Idk how long it’s been that way but it runs ok. Pops on decel… I just purchased a Fuelpak FP3 and new plugs so I hope it goes away
DK Customs has them for 2014 and newer Sportsters here www.dkcustomproducts.com/xl-vied-fuel-enrichment-harley-efi-plug-n-play-2014-up-sportster-dk-xlvied-14-nr.htm
The M8's really seem to tolerate muffler changes pretty well without any issue. The M8 was designed around running lean as where the twin cam was squeezed way to hard going lean. It really depends on the bike on how it's going to respond, you can run a different baffle with a M8 and get some sound. May not get any performance out of it until it get's a little fuel.
Can you explain this?.. I had Harley add VnH slip ons when I bought my Heritage last year. And they did pop quite a bit on deceleration . However , I put the originals back on for touring in Spain , due to laws there . When I came home to Ireland I replaced the stock with the VnH ...and now no popping..what is that about ?
i have a 2017 iron 883 with vance and hines slip ons and a stage 2 Arlen ness big sucker air cleaner. no re mapping yet. for me it is very quick and the low end torque is great 0 -100 kms. i am still thinking about a Tuner. do i need to as apposed to do i have to ?
Technically you wouldn't need to since you're retaining the stock head pipe, being a CVO it's already tuned for CVO mufflers. The CVO mufflers are basically the Screamin Eagle mufflers. You wouldn't regret a good tune later down the road though!
Just slip ons you can generally get away with a muffler swap only with the stock air cleaner. After that you will for sure want a tune with a aftermarket air cleaner.
What if I have 4 O2 sensors on FXBBS ? Extra 2 O2 sensors fitted to stock slip on ? Should I drill holes in V&H 300 and fit o2 sensor ? Also in stock mufflers - catalysts, so tune/remapping required.
They should, it's the same frame and all the cross references I am seeing are the same part number. Only thing might some different bracketry possibly but they should fit without any issue.
The factory Harley headers are a lot better than they are given credit for, if they don't have a cat. Removing the cat does wonders but the bends in factory headers (originally with the cat) weren't designed with being run open in mind. The aftermarket head pipes bends have been designed for the dual touring exhaust without ever using a cat. They have better reversion and exhaust scavenging effects.
@@GixxerFoo - I removed the Cat from my 2012 FLHX factory headpipe. After having my bike tuned with a SE Tuner, and an aftermarket Big Sucker air breather, V&H Power Port headpipes, and Full Boar slip-ons. I then removed the V&H headpipes, sold them and reinstalled my factory "De-catted" headpipes and installed "Bad Dad" Longshot slip-ons. I'm happy with the sound and performance.
My 2012 Switchback, which is due for delivery soon, has already had Stage 1 - new exhaust, Screaming Eagle air cleaner and dealer tune. If I change exhaust, will it need another tune? Thanks.
They are a excellent low cost alternative to a tuner to get the bike fueled well and take the leaness out. Performance wise you'll notice a little difference simply due to the bike getting some fuel. A full on flash tuner is still the best but XIED are certainly a great way to get into a setup of slip on exhaust with an air cleaner and do it right.
So I just bought a 2020 883. So I would be able to throw on some slip ons with stock air cleaner? Does mine have o2 sensors. What would be the best tuner? Great video.
Yes you can. I have the same 2019, and yes yours has O2 sensors. I prefer the Vance and Hines FP3 as it has tremendous support and you can easily make changes using your smartphone. No computer required and the tuner can stay mounted on the bike. Most keep it in the battery compartment.
I forgot to mention that 14 and up on the Sportsters was the new revision of the closed loop exhaust system. They ran those even leaner than 2013 and earlier, the earlier models ran a bit richer AFR.
Aren't those foolers? I watch a harley mechanic who says after a year the ecm will get tired of the repeated wrong value and it will have to go back to stock. My friend used the power commander and had it happen.
Never heard of that happening unless the unit itself failed. But yeah they do intercept the signal and trick the ECM. Cheaper option bit the flash tuner is the best route.
@@rebel_ltz learning about tuners isn't dumb but your comment is. Filtering through what tuner is a fooler and what isn't from more experienced people is how you get knowledgeable and a ripping bike.
My 14 road king runs good but idle sucks, its rough and not always the same. Bike was tuned with the screamin eagle orange super tuner pro.. b4 I bought it.. local Harley shop added fuel n air, but did not get it right ( they told me it's good enough,) $106 labor
Harley's don't idle like Japanese bikes. He has a video about the Harley sound, and Honda designing the Shadow model at the crank to sound like the Harley.
I just bought a 07 FLHTCU with this race tuner kit on (32107-01g) along with slip on mufflers that are to loud for me. Can i put the OEM mufflers back on?
Gixxerfoo, I have a 2014 ultra limited with the 103, I installed vance&hines slip on and a k&N air filter with the stock air box, do I need to tune it ? I drove after the installation and it does not pop or anything. Thank you.
Adding a high flow air filter on my 2017 M8 107, is a tune required? I watched a video on you tube from DK Customs, he was saying that the M8 from the factory do not run lean like the twin cams. So he was saying you could install a high flow air filter without a tune and the bike would run just fine. What is your thoughts?
Did my Honda 90 -- straight piped it. Sounds just like yours. Brutal! Getting looks from the babes; as well as a surprising number of dudes. Feels good to be a member of the exhaust community. see all y'all on the road
Great informative video as i have been searching this topic, I have got a 2022 Softail Standard and looking at both the Vance & Hines Eliminator 300 and the Twin Slash slip on, so good to hear that your preference is with o2 sensors, but what happens to the sensors in my stock slip, do these just bolt on to the new ones, sorry if dumb question but not very mechanical.......
@@j.vosier6786 I have changed the slip-ons to V&H Twins Slash, but because of the sensors in them they are flagging a fault, only way to clear this was by taking to local Harley and having a retune, and as i was going down this route decided to upgrade the air filter and complete a stage 1.
Question! i have a brand new Road glide 107 Put a set of Shark road 36" fishtails, will that make the bike run hotter? i wouldent think a set of slip on would make any difference?
Nice video. I have 2017 FLSTF fatboy. I have installed cobra rpt slipons. I want to ask that by using v and h fp3 is there significant improvement in performance or not? For using fp3 should i have to change stock air filter also? If yes can i use k nd n filter in stock air filter?
A FP3 tune is a night and day difference compared to the stock tune, it will feel like a new bike! You can run the stock air filter, or even a K&N in the stock air box. The bike will run a little rich since all the FP3 tunes are developed with a high flow open air cleaner. Running a little isn't a bad and it won't hurt the motor at all.
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Have you run your slip-ons without a tune with any luck? Which fuel tuner do you think is the best setup?
No. With a Twin Cam, get a tune even before a slip on. They are programmed very lean from the factory. Just get a Dynojet PowerVision & save youself some time and money. I did the Xieds & the FP3 1st, but they just didn't do enough so I bought the PV. When I traded in my Sporty, I was able to reuse my PV, Dynojet unlocked it for $199. I don't think you can reuse a V&H FP3. If I ever switch bikes again, they'll unlock it again too.
No. With a Twin Cam, get a tune even before a slip on. They are programmed very lean from the factory. Just get a Dynojet PowerVision & save youself some time and money. I did the Xieds & the FP3 1st, but they just didn't do enough so I bought the PV. When I traded in my Sporty, I was able to reuse my PV, Dynojet unlocked it for $199. I don't think you can reuse a V&H FP3. If I ever switch bikes again, they'll unlock it again too.
Yes and it ran like crap. Got a PowerVision and it changed everything. Then went with an intake and full exhaust and retuned. A stock bike will benefit greatly from a good tune.
You don’t need tune with M8. Even when you change AC and slip-ons. You will probably benefit from new tune, but it’s not necessary. It will run properly. M8’s are not set-up lean from the factory.
@@dawidos117 i heard for slipons it’s not necessary, but an air cleaner changes the game. Got any reference videos to help an M8 owner out?
According to DK Customs dyno testing, the m8s are able to handle most AFR adj with ECM , and are not as lean as the twin cams were, and that the ECM seems to be able to handle stage 1 upgrades without the need for tuning. The O2 sensors seem to be doing their job. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there. I appreciate all efforts to clarify.
Good advice. My 2008 Sportster XL1200C has O2 sensors, all original.
The contents of this video 100% answer my question. Appreciated indeed. Later on, I will dig into Xied
I bought my 103 that had slip ons and it didn't run very well. Added a high flow air box and it ran a little better. After that I decided to do the full stage one and it ran so much better.
When working with a Pot style fueler which is anyone that has the adjustable screws on it ,you really have to be ultra careful about water intrusion. Do not get them wet while washing your bike or riding in the rain I have seen several of them short out this way even though they may say solid state the potentiometers corrode and they stop working all the sudden the bike will start popping and run like crap and will not respond to any adjustments. If you have a bike with a cat 🐈 in the head pipe then adding more fuel will raise the exhaust pipe temps as the converter over heats
its best to remove the cat or change head pipe
That's some really good points! I've had pretty good luck with those little tuners, I may not have had one long enough to have an issue with one though.
This was an outstanding segment on exhaust, even though I'm running a Mikuni 42 on my 95" twin cam, I still was able pick some valuable info from this video!
Good to hear! There's nothing wrong with a good carb, they still work exceptionally well on the Harleys!
89' Electraglide here with a Mikuni too 👍
Have 98Flhtc with mikuni42 and slipons, ı have too much popups and ı have new bought thunder touque inserts (lolipops) ıhavent instal yet but lets see if it will stop the popings.I try to watch your videos and they are really usefull for me.Thanks for your efforts @GixxerFoo
I’ve had both a 2012 Sportster with a fuel pac and SE cleaner and one without the tuner and stock cleaner. Both had o2s v and h pipes. No doubt, the stage one would tear the other a new asshole, but I found the sound quite annoying. Sold it and find the non stage one sound to be great and for whatever reason great! And the fact is, it has enough power to get me in all the trouble I can afford for sure! Happy Days to all of you!
The stage one had big radius pipes and the other short shots and both had baffles. It could have been the big r pipes that I didn’t dig after about 10 minutes. I don’t know for sure. Or it could have been the stage one tune. I don’t know for sure. Some pipes sound great in the garage. But riding with them is another story. Can actually come back exhausted, for lack of a better term, noise annoyance or noise pollution! Heads fukin ringing. Helmet traps the sound and makes it even worse. I prefer to be motivated by the sound and exhausted from just hanging on!
I rode my Sportster stock for about a year and to honestly it sucked, hesitation and it ran very hot. I did nothing more than tune it with an FP3, stock exhaust and air cleaner. I hated myself for not just spending the money to at least tune it after that, it really came to life compared to stock! Cooler running, better throttle response, the difference was amazing!
I'm really over the loud pipes myself, I am debating about putting the quiet baffles in my exhaust. Adding the quiet baffles will knock down your top end power but you'll gain in the low to mid range torque!
@@GixxerFoo
The difference in my situation is not the volume. With 2 different sportsters and a heritage, all equally as loud, I found only the tuned sportster to be annoying. I also have a 96 sporty that is chopped, and jetted with hooker pipes that doesn’t bother me a bit. So, only one out of four I find annoying. And it’s not even on acceleration but steady speed. There’s a certain drone sound, for lack of a better word. A hoolelolel. The others I just love the sound and can’t help myself always twisting the throttle more than necessary. Now, as far as innocent bystanders that don’t get it, they have problems with all of them! 😂
I know exactly what you're talking a out, my Sportster does that drone about 60 to 65. Above or below and it's fine 🤷♂️.
IDK, I've heard both sides, after I installed my Tab Performance (Zombie Baffle), seemed like my mile/fuel was off. When I took it in for my 5000 mile, HD recommended the Stage 1 for efficiency. My pipes were "blueing" I guess but I feel a difference in sound and performance. - 2023 Street Bob 114
Great videos! Lots of excellent and knowledgable advice. Keep em’ coming!
As far as the M8 Softail and Touring bikes, DK Customs is showing you dont need a tuner at all with regular Stage 1. You'll need one for stage 1 with a manifold swap or higher stages.
I agree. I have 3 M8 114s, 2 of which I have open air boxes and slipons on 1 and the others Cobra 909s with a cross over. Both have 0 decel pop and run great. Now I do agree if I dumped more fuel it I may get more hp, but at this point I satisfied with the power and economy thats there.
Just a set of slip-ons and you should be alright with the stock intake, anymore it will be time to get some fuel in the bike.
The M8's are really good on fuel and do pretty well with just slip-on exhaust, they seem to handle the leaner fuel ratios better than the twin cams.
@@GixxerFoo on my Roadking, I have hit 51 mpg in the mountains on a 250 mile round trip and its a M8. The 6 gallon fuel really give it some long legs.
@@rider14mcd63 I get About 450+ Km on my FXLRS Mostly highway which is well above Average.. Not Sure what it Converts to in MPG but with just Slip ons the Bike runs Perfect,, Not lean Nor hot..
A million thanks! Went with the Xied and bike is running like it should. I'm all stock, with the exception of slip-ons, but that radical fluctuating between high and low at idle is gone... Runs a lot cooler also... Again... Thank you... A simple $140 fix for 2017 Dyna Street Bob...
Great to hear! Not many people know about those Xied's, they are great option if your running under warranty too! I know exactly what you mean about the fluctuating RPM's, those bikes are starving for fuel.
@@GixxerFoo thanks again my friend... Any opinion on the American Motors manual adjust IAC???
Put the Exide's on my bought new 09 FXSTC. With the mandatory Kalifornia emissions tune, lean. Engine would cough and die in warm weather in city traffic at most inopportune times. Installed 3" Cycle Shack slip ons and Screaming A/C kit. Cooled oil temp by 20 degrees. Third gear WOT pulls strong to 5000 RPM my redline. MPG high 40's estimated at 70-75 MPH. Two up in cruising Las Vegas strip in 90F air temp engine runs fine. Best $100 you can spend on HD without going to a tuner and possibly hurting your warranty. Ride Safe
That's one of the best parts of the Xied's, you can pull them back off if you have to take the bike in for warranty work. They might see it in the data but can't prove anything with nothing flashed to the ECM. California has some strict emissions, add the traffic and the warm weather riding a bike with a stock tune just won't work.
You mentioned that sportsters didn't get o2 sensors until 2014, but that's wrong. Harley introduced o2 sensors on Dynas in 2006 and on all models in 2007. My wife's sportster is 2008 and has them.
My 2010 spare sporty has them.
That fuel moto sounds perfect for what I want to do. I just want to do a stage 1 on my slim. I can't stand decel popping and being able to, hopefully, mostly eliminate that would be awesome. Well I guess it's time to start buying an intake and exhaust 🤗. Great video as always!
Thank you! Thay FuelMoto is hard to beat, the price, support and the fact they set it up for you when you order it! You can't beat a deal like that!
Personally I cut out the baffles on my streetglide I didn’t tune it but I left the stock air box and the cat is still in the head pipe. It still runs perfect but I will be tuning it now that it’s off warranty
That cat in the head pipe will help with the back pressure for sure, it will be a whole new bike with a tune! Getting some fuel in the bike makes a huge difference in your riding experience!
Did you take the packing out as well or just baffles?
Helpful information, thanks. Wished I would had seen this before I spent 1 million dollars on the Harley-Davidson Screaming Eagle tuner.
Did you get the Street Tuner?
Whatsup !! We got the 2021 Softail StreetBob for the Lil Miss and just wanted a little sound.. I put on the S&S Slashcut slipons and have run it for about 100 miles so the ECM would adjust the AFR.. NO decel pop at all ! Its smooth and strong. Ive thought about upping the fuel mix on her bike, but it seems the O2 sensors were adequate to accommodate the bikes needs.. I had put the FLIEDs on my 14 StreetG;ide, when I changed to full exhaust and airbox.. It ran exceptionally well that way.
That's awesome, since your not getting decel pop I'd say you're good to go. No two motors are alike so another bike might pop and spit like hell!
@@GixxerFoo On your other recent video I commented on, there was a comment about M8 and fuel management, by DK Customs video link.. Good to go..
I beg to differ. I put 4.5 slip on mufflers on my 17 ultra. Noticed the bike was surging. Dealer said oh you need a tune! Tuned it with a tuner, bike ran fine.
Some bikes will do great and others will definitely need to be tuned. I've never been a fan of just putting some mufflers on without a tune.
Had RCX slip ons put on my 14 Street glide Firefighter before it ever left the showroom floor . Runs like a top thank God no tuning done to it .🤔😎🇺🇸
I can answer this question. My stock - except for German made Miller slip-on's - 2011 Heritage Softail 103 pops and farts badly on de-acceleration at nearly all rpm's...from low to high. I've been doing some online research, RUclips etc., and have decided to go with the PV3. If ever a motor needed remapping it's this one and the only deviation from stock are the slip-on's. They're not even open. They just allow slightly better flow and a nicer exhaust sound without breaking eardrums. If I were to fit a K&N air filter without some new mapping this bike would be unrideable due to the stock factory lean fuel parameters.
The fuel injected Twin Cams were run waaaay to lean from the factory to meet emissions. The motors weren't exactly designed to run that lean but they would do it just with excessive heat. Any little change in air flow on a FI twin cam even with just slip ons really needs a retune to adjust the fuel with a programmer of some kind. The new M8's do great without a remap and some Sportsters will get away without a remap just swapping for some slip on exhaust.
That FuelMoto unit looks like a great deal for a guy looking to just do stage 1.
Their micro tuner is hard to beat for the money and support, not mention that it's based on Dyno Jet's Power Commander V.
I have an 07 Sportster sitting in the garage with 02 censors that came stock from the factory.
Thanks again, knowledge is power and you do have a knowledge. Thanks for your teachings.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
That makes GixerFoo one powerful character!
I'm not sure why anyone would need more power then the stock M8. I have the 114 FLHC. I guess some slip-ons might be ok....for a little more bark.
700! Great vid Gixxer, thank you!
My pleasure!
I have a '20 883 Iron full stock under warranty. I added 3" straight mufflers and lost a fair amount of low end and even a little mid end power. I made $5 lollipops and got back most my power. They only take up about 1/3rd the diameter of the muffler, so I'm going to make a pair about 1/2 the diameter, which I think should fix it. I didn't care about performance, just yet. I wanted it to be loud, and I totally got loud haha BUT I was surprised that I lost power. Anyways, I'm looking into going full stage 1 and maybe a basic 1255 Hammer kit, so I'm thinking FP3 tuner.
I would get a Power Vision if you end up doing the Hammer Kit, the FP3 is very capable and does the same thing as the Power Vision but you will have to manually enter everything for Hammer's map on your phone (it's a tremendous amount of information). It can be done, but it's risky and Hammer won't warranty any engine damage if you miss a cell. With the Power Vision Hammer will email you the map and you load that on your Power Vision and flash the bike. You can pick up a Power Vision through FuelMoto for around $400, that's the same price the FP3 is going for now. FP3 is great for pipes, air cleaner and cam, they just need a software package you can use on a computer and right now it operates in a cloud based system.
@@GixxerFoo sweet! I've always been great with carbs and EFI is something I barely have knowledge of. I've been looking lately and wasn't sure to go Screamin Eagle Street Pro to save my warranty, or V&H FP3 which most people were recommending on groups I'm in or Power Vision... which originally was the most expensive option until FP3 seemed to have raised their price? :-/
There's always option C of buying them all hahaha I'm about to go to MMI Harley specific school for 11 months, so it could be useful down the road working on other people's bikes?
And... I am strongly considering the Basic Hammer kit w/ big fins for $699, so maybe I just need to listen to you, because my drive train warranty will be gone then anyways lol
@@mtwb13 The FP3 and the Screamin Eagle Tuner will lock to the Vin number forever so they will only tune that bike once it's flashed. Now the FP3 can be used on other bikes to read trouble codes, but the Power Vision you can buy a license to tune another bike. It's about 200 bucks but cheaper than another tuner, the Power Vision price has really come down. I bought the FP3 since it was 150 bucks cheaper years ago. EFI really isn't all that bad and it's a lot easier to make adjustments once you get the swing of using your tuner's software. When you talk to Hammer they will highly recommend the Power Vision and not just because they sell them. Flashing a map for your bikes setup is pretty easy and they generally run very well, maybe a little decel pop but it's pretty easy to add little fuel to fix that. Plus with the Power Vision it's what most dyno tuners use, they can literally tune another 15 horsepower into a motor using one.
with an m8 you can put on slip on's and a high flow air box without a tune, it's been proven time and time again.
Put an XIED on my bike and it seemed to work as far as cooling the bike down but did not eliminate my decel pop. I just got to break down and get a fuel pack for it
Pass on the Fuel Pack, and get the Powervision from FuelMoto USA. Fuelpack is 400$, PV from Fuelmoto USA is 400$. It's the same price from them, but way more tools and features, and it serves as a stand alone glass dash if you want to mount it to your bars. Saving your phone for GPS and stuff.
Go with the PV.
I would look at the FP3 or Power Vision, there is the original Fuel Pak which was a inline fuel tuner and not a complete flash tuner. They want about as much for that unit as they the latest generation.
I like the Power Vision especially if you get it from FuelMoto, it's not as straight forward as the FP3 but with FuelMoto they will help you out.
@@GixxerFoo the Fuel Moto micro sounds like a entry level turner if you don't ever want to cams like me
That's really all it is, get your pipes and air cleaner and correct the fueling.
One question is why its a such big difference with a full exhaust and a slip on when even the slip on takes away the cat wich is the biggest flow resistence in the exhaust system?
Thanks for making this informative and helpful video
That's awesome to hear it was helpful, that's what keeps me going!
I have power commander5. Fuel Moto has an amazing service dept! They help and solve any issues fast .
I only have upgraded breather and Vance n Hines 2-1.
I’m about to call Fuel Moto and see what I have to do to get another map for quieter exhaust I’m putting on
Top info (again).
Merry Christmas.
Thank you! Merry Christmas to you too!
No, unless changed intakes as well.
Another great video. Thanks Gixxerfoo. Am thinking about throwing some slip on mufflers, but throwing a tuner on it will void my warranty. Should be ok with just mufflers.
That's the bad part that a tune will void the warranty, at least part of it anyhow. You could go the XIED route if you have some fueling issues and it won't leave a mark on the ECM. Just remove them if you need warranty work.
I needed to hear this!! I bought a 14 SG that only had Vance and Hines twin slash slip ons. Next week I’m getting an air filter and a dynotune. Wait should I buy a tuner instead??
If you're going to have it tuned on the dyno, that's the best way to do it! The bike will be 100% dialed in for that setup on your specific motor. You can't be qualified tuner operating a dyno, flash tuners get close but they can't beat the dyno.
@@GixxerFoo Yessss!! Mann I listen to all of your vids so I value your knowledge 🔥🔥🔥
My stock 1995 Heritage Classic Softail I put the long shotgun Vance & Hines pipes on it with no baffles
Those are some classic exhaust, that's just perfect for that bike!
It's a damn shame you forgotten us Carburetor sportster riders!!! Haha
Well with a carb you'll have to re-jet, only the fuel injected bikes you can really get away with just bolting on an exhaust.
Good video with great information. Thank you again from one Okie to another
Thank you! Nice we finally got some sunshine around here, temperatures have been decent in the afternoon. Lol now if we can just get a break from the wind.
GixxerFoo went riding today today down to Ft Gibson dam
That's some beautiful riding country down that way!
Wrong! 2007 sporster does have 2 O2 sensors. But I do reccomend a Thundermax. Especially if you are planning on making changes on a rebuild.
I have recently brought an 2013 883. I am thinking of changing the vance and Hines straight shots to short shots. It already has a stage 1 remap with a air cleaner. My question is, would it need tuning again or will it be a nice simple swap?
It is also fitted with o2 sensors.
Many thanks! 😆
The short shots are much shorter exhaust system so retuning would likely need to be done. If it's already tuned for the after market exhaust system it might run okay but for sure wouldn't hurt to correct the tune.
mine is not tunned and its not lean with full system and air filter big sucker , ,if it was lean it would turn header pipes deep purple / blue and run hot , runs fine 2020 street bob ,only goiing to have it dyno tuned after stage 2 using a 480 cam package
The M8's really seem to do really well without a tune after being modded. Harley did a lot of work on cam and valve timing to make those new motors work with the lean AFR. Street Bob is gonna rip with a cam and tune, those things are frickin light!
Merry Christmas and thanks for the informative Christmas Day video. Btw, finally got my 03 Dyna back on the road after new cam, cam plate, oil pump, lifters, and push rods. Runs great, a little decel popping... thinking about putting it on dyno, will let you know if I do.
Merry Christmas to you too! That's awesome news! Are you running a tuner on it right now?
@@GixxerFoo No, but I think maybe the carb was rejetted already, since its not having any issues that I've noticed other than the decel popping, which it did with the stock cam. Have V&H VO2 air cleaner system & V&H short shots on it too. It could possibly use a little additional tuning. Also replaced the AGM battery with a Li-Ion one...light & powerful.
Those new batteries are frickin light! That's what l am going with too when l change mine out.
Heck man this bikes need a tuner stock. They run crappy to me. Good luck adding slip ons or air filter.update I got a 21 road glide and the tuning on it was much better than my 17 ultra
All the vids I've watched are always about the newer bikes! But what about the older ones that are carbed? Like the 97 Road k
King FLHR I have! Which is stock! Because I've also thought about removing the baffles! Which I can't find out about either on whether you should rejet the catb etc. Have a good one
I actually have a lot of videos covering the Evo and the Twin Cam, even a few for the shovel head. Check out my play list on the Evo engine.
@@GixxerFooThanks for the info The Evo is actually one of my favorite Harley engines! Very reliable for their time! My opinion of course have a great day man!
What about stock 114 air cleaner? It’s supposedly high performance from factory.
I have a 2014 with the 103ho and the stock open air cleaner,and a set of fat fishtails with no baffles...and I have a v&h fp3 tuner ..my question is if I decat my bike will I need to retune? And or will I loose hp?
Without baffles removing the cat will cut the low end power a bit, but wide open top end will gain. If you remove the cat l would check your FP3 map and flash the map for no baffle and then autotune if needed.
I have a 2011 Harley Davidson Sportster xl 1200 x 48 and it has o2 sensors. Bike to this date only has 1,350 miles my pips are a little light blue in places so that tells me I'm running a little lean. The only thing that was changed on it was the slip-on and it still has the factory breather.
The FI bikes run lean with the factory tuning, it's honestly too lean. It's alright to run with slip-ons and the factory air cleaner but if you put a new air cleaner on and a tune it will be like a rocket ship. Night and day difference, I first tuned my stock bike with a FP3 and did nothing else. Holy crap I was shocked and pissed I rode that bike for several years without a tune, it was way more responsive and had a whole lot more power.
My buddy has a 2021 sportster he is .looking at the cobra 909 exhaust....full pipes.... what is your suggestion? Do you think he will need a power commander? Will he damage the bike if he doesnt and what can he expect in the way of side affects... thanks for your time inadvance.
Andrew.
Thank you! 🙂
You’re welcome 😊
Sportsters didn't have O2 sensors until 2014? My 2012 Seventy-Two sportster has stock O2 sensors...
2014 was the year they revised the closed loop system on the Sportster, fortunately for your year they ran a bit richer AFR. I should of specified that in the video.
@@GixxerFoo bought my 2nd hand and they are unplugged anyway. Doesn't toss codes either... something was done to it.
Have you checked to see of there is a stored code? They have probably been bypassed and the bike has been tuned with a good rich tune.
@@GixxerFoo just never thought about it since it runs great. Gas mileage is fine etc. The thing is though that the O2 sensors in it, the plug ends don't match up to the bikes wiring as if they are some kind of after market sensor? Tried to reconnect them and can't. Would like to know more about it but not paying to find out from Harley dealership. Friend is buddy with one of their techs who briefly looked at it out of sight of his boss. It may also have different cams. He held his hands to the exhaust at idle and somehow from the timing of the exhaust hitting his hands came to that conclusion that it does. It also smokes by buddies 2016 103 Street Bob that has a Stage One done to it who has ridden it and says it pulls harder than his bike does. Anyway its going bye bye this summer for a Fat Boy Lo.
how about drilling out OEM mufflers? I'm assuming the net change is maybe comparable to swapping for slip-ons and therefore also might not require a tuner? 2004 FXSTi. Thanks
Drilling holes in the muffler you still have all the packing and chambers with the cat. Touring bike have the cat in the head pipe, on other models it's in the mufflers. You would get some sound out of them but not much.
@@GixxerFoo thanks. I'm not looking for much volume...just a moderate increase would suffice
Just bought a set of s&s spo ovals for 08 roadking with a 96 engine. Looks like the baffles have been removed except for about a 4 inch section at the tip. Was wondering if that will effect the way it runs. It does run a little rich with the screaming eagle slipons that it came with when I bought it. Great video. Keep up the good work
I have 2021 fat boy . All I want is to change exhaust nd keep rest stock, will be that alright??? Thanks
On the M8 you technically could do a exhaust swap with slip-ons and get away with it. It will have some sound but won't really have any performance benefits, a tune is all always highly recommended though.
Clear and well explained.
Ty, brother.
Aseir -
Always good stuff here Brother, I always appreciate the knowledge 💯
Merry Christmas brother 🎅🤶🎄⛄
Merry Christmas! Hope you got to get out for a ride!
@@GixxerFoo didn't get to yesterday, first Christmas riding I've missed in 6 years but planning on a ride today, thanks brother 💯
I hope you got to get out and get that ride in to make up for it!
@@GixxerFoo na we didn't make that ride, it's the first time in 6 years we weren't able to ride on Christmas day, and we really do it for my Mother that passed away on Christmas day of 2014, but I still went to the cemetery like I do every year, here's to wishing you and your family a better and healthier year ahead in 2021 brother ✌🏼 N ❤️💯
Thank you, l am terribly sorry to hear that. At least you got to make it out to the cemetery.
A bone stock bike can benefit from a proper tune HD runs em to lean for emissions
Replacing slip-ons never affected my performance. However, I'm fortunate enough to have a carb and all I had to do to get rid of the lean condition was replace 42 stock pilot jet with a 45 pilot jet. I had to clean the carb anyway, so changing the jet was an easy fix. My air cleaner is stock but I do have the crankcase venting to the atmosphere, so the air intake stays cool, clean and dry. Love it!!!!
O2 sensors and mapping are not part of my life.
It's incredible what a good tune will do for a stock motorcycle, it's a night and day difference!
Carbs have some serious benefits and that's on of them for sure, a flash tuner will run you $400 bucks and a jet kit around $80.
Watch DK Customs ,,M8's DO NOT RUN LEAN ,, Unlike Twin Cams.
They have those dual plugs and extensive r&d on valve timing and ignition.
Do you know if the XIED will plug right into my 2013 FLHP? Will I notice a difference in performance? Great channel! Thank you for all the information!!
Yeah the are made to plug in between the 02 sensers and the wiring harness. You'll notice a difference, it will cool the bike down quite a bit!
I'm unique, I don't think about changing pipes at all.......if it's too loud I just don't buy it
I have considered the Cobra tuner
Cobra is good tuner, I believe you can use them on a different bike if you sell your current one too. I don't believe the Cobra actually marries to the VIN like a flash tuner.
@@GixxerFoo I don't know, both types from Cobra come set for your bike, then 1 auto makes adjustments and the other you can make minor adjustments
What has bothered me about the auto tuner is it DOESN'T use O2 sensor
Since I don't know enough about any of it, that was enough.
My 2023 M8 114 runs fine with a full exhaust and air cleaner without a tune. I have no heat or popping.
Full exhaust with air cleaner on the stock tune? It might be running on the lean side.
@@GixxerFoo The plugs look fine and It runs nice.
My 2009 sportster has 02 sensors on it stock
My 07 1200 Sporster has them also.
2021 Heritage for Europe have 2 cats and 2 sensors thats a problem is there any solutions?
Dang yeah you guys have the serious emissions over there, if you can get away with it an aftermarket exhaust without it and a retune is the best way to go.
i pulled the carpet like baffles out of my slips on, started riding and lost too much fuel. could i just buy a new set of slips on and gain mileage back or do i need a retune?
Removing the baffles you'd need to retune, that's a very drastic change in exhaust flow. Without baffles you'll sacrifice your low and midrange power but gain on top.
how about this. I have a set of straight pipes on a 09 Dyna Street Bob. They have baffles in them. Stock air cleaner however I removed the part of the air cleaner housing that is close to the engine ya know with ugly air scoop thing. Now the back of my air cleaner is open . Can I remove the baffles in the straight pipes without a remap? I havent because I understand carbs but I dont know a lot about EFI. I also have a re usable air filter K&N not a paper element. At present time it never pops on decel. There is a electronic line that plugs into the air filter that is now unplugged since I removed that ugly crap . No idea what I unplugged LOL. I assume its a sensor. Mass Air flow perhaps? Doesnt matter the bike shows no codes on the dash when I run diagnostic. I havent removed the baffles because I dont know if that will cause a need for a remap. Im not interested in noise per se but I dont want to hinder performance. It runs great with the baffles in there. But If I can safely remove them I will. Pisses me off that my old ironhead is louder than a 96 inch power plant! Not that noise matters but hey loud pipes get pussy!
If it's running good where it's at I would be afraid to make any changes without a tune, are you running the stock air box with a K&N filter in it?
@@GixxerFoo stock air box with the ugly air scoop removed.
K&N filter inside stock box I removed the inner part of the air box its ugly so I had to unplug electrical going to the box I think that's mass air flow sensor?
I like how the V-Rod sounds without the back mufflers... Now I have a question. is it bad to run the V-Rod without the back mufflers even if I put a tuner on it?
It's not bad if it's tuned for it but your low end and mid range will suffer, now wide open it will greatly benefit you there. Trouble is you have to be redline wide open banging gears for it to benefit.
I changed my pipes from stock too, 2 brothers but never tuned it runs great though.. should I take it to harley and have never tune it..or wait till I get the next tune up
Low Rider ST 24
Hello, My cycle is a 2021 H-D FLHCS 114. My question is: can a set of Samson 33" true dual fishtail mufflers with baffles be installed without additional tuning? Headpipes will accept OEM narrow band O2 cencors. At this point no modification to the intake are planned.
Thank you, Ernie Sawyer
If you're doing just mufflers with the stock head pipes you'll be good to go. If you're replacing the head pipes too you'll need to get a tune on the bike.
Hello and thanks for the speedy reply. The Samson true dual system in question is a full exhaust system: headpipes and baffled fishtail mufflers (part # S- 670-1). There are conflicting opinions if the complete exhaust system can be bolted on and ridden without a tune provided the intake remains stock from the factory. The new Samson headpipes do accept narrow band O2 cencors. How does replacement of the stock headpipes to the Samson headers affect the tuning so much?
Just want to do my homework before breaking out the tools and the bank.
ES
Hello,
Did you receive my second question regarding headpipes and tuning? ES
Hi - I'm thinking of installing the twin slash Vance & Hines slip on pipes on my 2009 Ultra Classic H-D and are wondering if I'll experience decel popping? I do have the stock air filter and not planning on changing anything ot getting it tuned. What do you think?
With the touring bike you are less likely to hear decel popping with the catalytic converter in the head pipe. For sure keep the stock air cleaner on as you mentioned but you may still experience some decel popping with how lean those bikes are. When you get a tune it will take care of that. My dad has Vrod he bought used that came with just slip ons on it and that thing decel popped bad, you could really tell it did not have a tune. Added a Power Vision tuner and a K&N air cleaner in the air box and it was good to go with no more decel pop.
Aren't Power Commander's just a down load type of device? You can't do any tuning with a Power Commander, or am I wrong here. Something like a TTS is for actual tuning, I think?
Power Commander is inline plug in module, you can make some minor adjustments with them but they don't actually flash the ECM. A TTS, Power Vision, FP3 these actually flash and reprogram the ECM itself.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for the reply, I just had my Indian ftr reflashed(?) with a PC3.Took the tech about 10 minutes to find and down load the map for my application. Noticeable improvement for my bike. Apparently it's pretty close to being dialed in. Would still like to get the bike up on a dyno to see the actual numbers as far as horsepower, torque and the air fuel ratio. As it stands right now I have no idea with regards to all that.
2011 fxdc has the cats in the muffler does that matter? Thanks
It will just eliminate the cats, it will work fine if you have the stock air cleaner and you're just swapping mufflers.
Speaking on slip ons do you have information about two brothers racing comp s touring exhaust on an m8 107 ? sound and performance potential?? thank you ahead of time, also one of my favorite Harley channels probably my favorite.
I just bought a 08 street glide with cobra slip ons and intake. He never put a tuner on it. Idk how long it’s been that way but it runs ok. Pops on decel… I just purchased a Fuelpak FP3 and new plugs so I hope it goes away
I have a 2011 Sportster 48 model and it has 02 sensors.
Gixxer, it's Christmas, you're allowed a day off
Thank you! I did take Christmas off, for the most part anyhow.
I've got a 2014 sportster xl883 and am having a hard time finding the xied part you talked about? The little harness plugs
DK Customs has them for 2014 and newer Sportsters here www.dkcustomproducts.com/xl-vied-fuel-enrichment-harley-efi-plug-n-play-2014-up-sportster-dk-xlvied-14-nr.htm
@@GixxerFoo thanks man ordered it last night!
Can i use loud baffle from v&h and not tune the bike ? (2019 114 Heritage )
The M8's really seem to tolerate muffler changes pretty well without any issue. The M8 was designed around running lean as where the twin cam was squeezed way to hard going lean. It really depends on the bike on how it's going to respond, you can run a different baffle with a M8 and get some sound. May not get any performance out of it until it get's a little fuel.
Thanks
Can you explain this?.. I had Harley add VnH slip ons when I bought my Heritage last year. And they did pop quite a bit on deceleration . However , I put the originals back on for touring in Spain , due to laws there . When I came home to Ireland I replaced the stock with the VnH ...and now no popping..what is that about ?
i have a 2017 iron 883 with vance and hines slip ons and a stage 2 Arlen ness big sucker air cleaner. no re mapping yet. for me it is very quick and the low end torque is great 0 -100 kms.
i am still thinking about a Tuner. do i need to as apposed to do i have to ?
It wouldn't hurt anything to go ahead and tune your bike, it would run a lot better with a good tune. The difference is night and day after a tune.
Holy crap! That's some power!
What am I looking at if I do want to put in a new set of cams?
if you change stock baffles to fullsac baffles on a 2021 cvo do you need to retune bike
Technically you wouldn't need to since you're retaining the stock head pipe, being a CVO it's already tuned for CVO mufflers. The CVO mufflers are basically the Screamin Eagle mufflers. You wouldn't regret a good tune later down the road though!
do i need a tune if i change the whole muffler and thats it?? and can i go with out for a few more months
now it is running hotter for sure.
Just slip ons you can generally get away with a muffler swap only with the stock air cleaner. After that you will for sure want a tune with a aftermarket air cleaner.
What if I have 4 O2 sensors on FXBBS ? Extra 2 O2 sensors fitted to stock slip on ? Should I drill holes in V&H 300 and fit o2 sensor ? Also in stock mufflers - catalysts, so tune/remapping required.
Would a pair of cobra slip ons from a 2005 softail classic fit on a 2006 Fatboy?
They should, it's the same frame and all the cross references I am seeing are the same part number. Only thing might some different bracketry possibly but they should fit without any issue.
Thank you sir
Great videos! What’s the difference between stock headers with the cats removed and 2/1/2 cat less headers like fullsac or fuel Moto?
The factory Harley headers are a lot better than they are given credit for, if they don't have a cat. Removing the cat does wonders but the bends in factory headers (originally with the cat) weren't designed with being run open in mind. The aftermarket head pipes bends have been designed for the dual touring exhaust without ever using a cat. They have better reversion and exhaust scavenging effects.
@@GixxerFoo - I removed the Cat from my 2012 FLHX factory headpipe. After having my bike tuned with a SE Tuner, and an aftermarket Big Sucker air breather, V&H Power Port headpipes, and Full Boar slip-ons.
I then removed the V&H headpipes, sold them and reinstalled my factory "De-catted" headpipes and installed "Bad Dad" Longshot slip-ons. I'm happy with the sound and performance.
My 2012 Switchback, which is due for delivery soon, has already had Stage 1 - new exhaust, Screaming Eagle air cleaner and dealer tune. If I change exhaust, will it need another tune? Thanks.
It depends if you're going from slipons to a complete aftermarket system, but with the twin cam engine retuning is very important.
Hey Gixxerfoo can I ride my H-D softail M8 with a set of new pipes for a few miles with no tune
Yeah you run them without a tune as long as you have the stock air cleaner.
QUESTION What do you think about those XIED thingys that plug into O2 Sensors that change bikes AFR so not as lean?
They are a excellent low cost alternative to a tuner to get the bike fueled well and take the leaness out. Performance wise you'll notice a little difference simply due to the bike getting some fuel. A full on flash tuner is still the best but XIED are certainly a great way to get into a setup of slip on exhaust with an air cleaner and do it right.
So I just bought a 2020 883. So I would be able to throw on some slip ons with stock air cleaner? Does mine have o2 sensors. What would be the best tuner? Great video.
Yes you can. I have the same 2019, and yes yours has O2 sensors. I prefer the Vance and Hines FP3 as it has tremendous support and you can easily make changes using your smartphone. No computer required and the tuner can stay mounted on the bike. Most keep it in the battery compartment.
Yeah so sportsters have o2 sensors 07 to present. Not 14 up.
Yep, same year that it got EFI.
I forgot to mention that 14 and up on the Sportsters was the new revision of the closed loop exhaust system. They ran those even leaner than 2013 and earlier, the earlier models ran a bit richer AFR.
Aren't those foolers? I watch a harley mechanic who says after a year the ecm will get tired of the repeated wrong value and it will have to go back to stock. My friend used the power commander and had it happen.
Never heard of that happening unless the unit itself failed. But yeah they do intercept the signal and trick the ECM. Cheaper option bit the flash tuner is the best route.
What a dumb thing to write.
@@rebel_ltz learning about tuners isn't dumb but your comment is. Filtering through what tuner is a fooler and what isn't from more experienced people is how you get knowledgeable and a ripping bike.
My 14 road king runs good but idle sucks, its rough and not always the same. Bike was tuned with the screamin eagle orange super tuner pro.. b4 I bought it.. local Harley shop added fuel n air, but did not get it right ( they told me it's good enough,) $106 labor
Harley's don't idle like Japanese bikes. He has a video about the Harley sound, and Honda designing the Shadow model at the crank to sound like the Harley.
I just bought a 07 FLHTCU with this race tuner kit on (32107-01g) along with slip on mufflers that are to loud for me. Can i put the OEM mufflers back on?
Gixxerfoo, I have a 2014 ultra limited with the 103, I installed vance&hines slip on and a k&N air filter with the stock air box, do I need to tune it ? I drove after the installation and it does not pop or anything. Thank you.
Adding a high flow air filter on my 2017 M8 107, is a tune required? I watched a video on you tube from DK Customs, he was saying that the M8 from the factory do not run lean like the twin cams. So he was saying you could install a high flow air filter without a tune and the bike would run just fine. What is your thoughts?
Did my Honda 90 -- straight piped it. Sounds just like yours. Brutal! Getting looks from the babes; as well as a surprising number of dudes. Feels good to be a member of the exhaust community. see all y'all on the road
Great informative video as i have been searching this topic, I have got a 2022 Softail Standard and looking at both the Vance & Hines Eliminator 300 and the Twin Slash slip on, so good to hear that your preference is with o2 sensors, but what happens to the sensors in my stock slip, do these just bolt on to the new ones, sorry if dumb question but not very mechanical.......
I have the same bike, did u change the exhaust?
@@j.vosier6786 I have changed the slip-ons to V&H Twins Slash, but because of the sensors in them they are flagging a fault, only way to clear this was by taking to local Harley and having a retune, and as i was going down this route decided to upgrade the air filter and complete a stage 1.
Question! i have a brand new Road glide 107 Put a set of Shark road 36" fishtails, will that make the bike run hotter? i wouldent think a set of slip on would make any difference?
Nice video. I have 2017 FLSTF fatboy. I have installed cobra rpt slipons. I want to ask that by using v and h fp3 is there significant improvement in performance or not? For using fp3 should i have to change stock air filter also? If yes can i use k nd n filter in stock air filter?
A FP3 tune is a night and day difference compared to the stock tune, it will feel like a new bike! You can run the stock air filter, or even a K&N in the stock air box. The bike will run a little rich since all the FP3 tunes are developed with a high flow open air cleaner. Running a little isn't a bad and it won't hurt the motor at all.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for replying. So if i a using fp3 then i should use high flow air cleaner also to avoid any problem to motor .
It will perform better with an aftermarket air cleaner but running the stock air box won't hurt the motor.
@@GixxerFoo thanks a lot for reply.
Not a problem, anytime!
Will have to go this route since cali doesn’t allow a tune yet… god!
It's hard to get a tuner in California, the only ones available are like the Screamin Eagle street tuner.
Should I do some rejetting
Yes, on carbed bike with exhaust you need to rejet, it's easy and inexpensive to do. It's not worth leaning it out, especially on an Evo.