JOKER Was Right: (And Batman Was Wrong) DARK KNIGHT Hidden Meaning Explained
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2022
- Nebula is going to release a new level product, Cosmos Laser 4K Projector-- the world's most compact 4K laser theater. There is also a 1080p version, Cosmos Laser Projector, as well as a Super Early Bird Discount--40% off for a limited 200 units. seenebula.co/sclaser
The Dark Knight’s version of the Joker is arguably the greatest comic book villain ever put to screen. But what makes him resonate with us so much? People don’t hate this villain-they idolize him, cosplay as him. It’s as if…we kind of agree with some of the philosophical points he makes in the film. Obviously, he’s a murderous terrorist who had to be stopped. But his outlook on society, and on the Batman-sticks with us.
In this video we examine the philosophy of the Joker, and answer the question: was he right?
If you're new, Subscribe! → bit.ly/subscribe-screencrush
Go here → screencrush.com/
Like us → / screencrush
Follow us → / screencrushnews
Get our newsletter → screencrush.com/newsletter/
Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Katie Olivero
#Joker #VillainsThatWereRight #TheBatman 
Кино
![THE BATMAN Breakdown: Every EASTER EGG and Hidden Reference You Missed + [SPOILER] Cameo Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2q09g4Xsb70/mqdefault.jpg)
![THE BATMAN Breakdown: Every EASTER EGG and Hidden Reference You Missed + [SPOILER] Cameo Explained](/img/tr.png)
Nebula is going to release a new level product, Cosmos Laser 4K Projector-- the world's most compact 4K laser theater. There is also a 1080p version, Cosmos Laser Projector, as well as a Super Early Bird Discount--40% off for a limited 200 units. seenebula.co/sclaser
Next video red hood was right
Or Omni man was right
Okay Screencrush now do batmans take on this whole dilemma
As
What's your take on the idea that the Joker is a disillusioned soldier?
Imagine making a movie that people can dissect for over a decade. Gotta love it, great video SC
Yep and they still do it to my favorite horror film of all time aka THE THING haha its awesome
It just goes to show you how perfect this movie is.
And then imagine not winning Best Picture to a movie no one remembers or watches.
nope peope's had been saying for decades joker was right
Ryan: “Money is evil.”
Also Ryan: “Now a word from our sponsor.”
Ryan: Money isn't real
Also Ryan: so the system...
The best thing about TDK Joker is he had no origin story so that he could be frame as the embodiment of all human chaos rather than a person formed due to specific circumstances like Arthur was in The Joker, also him making up origin stories about his scars to suit his argument/agenda at that moment in time was peak storytelling.
I took the story of Arthur Fleck as a story going on in the head of the guy we see in an asylum. For me it was just one of many origin story he has in his head. The things I noticed that got me to that View. The gun that shot more bullets than it was supposed to. The imaginary girlfriend. The fact that if he was taken away from his adopted mother then how did he get back into his life. I can't see him seeking her out as an adult. The fact that Arthur Fleck should be 32 and Joaquin Phoenix's clearly older than that. The fact that the therapist at the end of isn't use his name. To me that means that he might not be even named Arthur Fleck. I'm not saying this was the intent or that other should share my opinion. I'm just saying that's what I took from the movie
@@vingrier87 That's nice and all but still makes it an origin story and much more easily dismissed as "oh Arthur was born mentally ill which led him to become the Joker" and the film had a very strong message about "it just takes one bad day to turn good people evil", which is not the case for TDK Joker.
Without any origin story whatsoever TDK Joker is just pure and fair agent of chaos as normal as a natural force and there's no manmade circumstances which made him that way - he just IS and that's what's scary about him. For Arthur Joker there's a point in it to say if society makes an effort to make every day better for everyone and leave no one behind, then maybe Joker won't come into existence - that's the difference between the two Jokers.
@@vingrier87 That’s funny because when people ask which of the scar stories are “true,” I think that to one degree or another, they all could have been.
If someone’s father scarred half his face and the mob wanted to torture his wife, scarring her face like his isn’t a terrible way of doing it.
Just to point out, I don’t actually think that this *is* the case, I just think it’s possible.
him not having an origin story is y I didnt like his joker at all... joker is my fav DC character but heaths joker was just overrated and over hyped. joaquins joker was so much better and we only seen the actual joker for about 15mins lol.
@@subzero308 Heath's joker is not overrated, and both Jokers work in their respected theme of the story. TDK's theme is about the good and evil which resides in EVERYBODY and everybody has the capacity to choose to do good and bad, this is why Heath's Joker must not have an origin story because he represent the bad in everyone - he is literally the devil which temps everyone to make evil and selfish choices. Phoenix's Joker's message is about society leaving behind the poor thus creating a class of disenfranchised people, and the gap is getting wider and if society doesn't address that inequality it will backfire and tore society apart, this is why Arthur must have an origin story of him being mistreated to tell that angle. The two Jokers both served the theme of their story extremely well. To compare them both while taking them outside of the context of the movie's themes is doing a massive injustice to both Jokers and missing the point of both movies.
Man where was this breakdown when I watched the movie 12 times in theaters?! This makes love the movie even more. Thank you for this🙌
👏👏🔥🔥
My thoughts exactly! Still my favorite movie of all time! A masterpiece!
i also makes love to movies.
This.... this will be the reason why in 20 years, we'll still re-watch The Dark Knight. A thought provoking movie disguised as a Super Hero Flick. Awesome Breakdown.
I mean it’s not really disguised it’s very much a super hero film it just happens to be a thought provoking one
@@RaVisions Yawn. Yes. Semantics exist.
I still believe that Joker gave both boats their own detonator, so that whichever boat that acted selfishly would in turn punish themselves. The Joker loves a good joke.
But then why was he grabbing a detonator when neither of the boats blew up?
@@shaunjimbangan1166 if you watch the scene over in the movie, he says he always comes prepared after seeing neither boat detonated the bombs. So the detonator he grabs was his plan B to blow them both up for not choosing
I didn’t consider that, but I agree. He loves a good joke.
That was the reveal I was actually waiting for the whole time. Was disappointed when they didn't bring it up.
American society is a sick twisted joke, so maybe deep down he loves society? 🤔.
“I tell ya, when the chips are down, these ‘civilized people’ will eat each other.” One of the Many realest things he said.
idk you can't really have a civilized behavior w/out a civilization. the way the joker dresses it up like that is redundant. obviously if you take away the foundation of civility itself then it will erode. so... really, it's not even a point worth trying to make imo.
@@terrestrialgoldfish2700 It still is, because civilization is subject to the rules of nature ie drought/disaster. It's harder to maintain the facade of civility when people are starving or falling off left and right from an outbreak.
@@dewaynemcclure when people starting eating each other, two people will band together and say, I don't want to be the eaten, I want to be the eaters. They will group up, so they can last longer. A third person, will start to join the group, or other's will group up into other groups. Eventually, societies will reform in some way.
True but remember that it's perspective is that the elites will see no issue then the people at the bottom see everything wrong with the society and its how you get a revolution regardless if said thing is successful or not remember the American revolution and the French revolution to see what I mean
Yes society at its safest is easily dismantled when hard times hit, the west is on the cusp of this in my opinion
One thing I’ve noticed when watching the dark knight that I don’t think gets alot of discussion, is that Heath ledger’s rendition of the Joker is a modern day take on the mythological dragon, kidnaps the heroes love interest like how a dragon kidnaps a princess (in this case Rachel), locks her in a tall tower (Rachel and Harvey dent both get kidnapped and tied to chairs in two separate buildings about to explode), sticks his tongue out like a serpent (dragons are often depicted as reptilian or snake like with forked tongues that stick out), uses fire and explosions (like a fire breathing dragon), doesn’t care about anything but killing and destroying to prove a point about how cynical human nature is (Dragons of European folklore are seen as symbols of evil that just wanna kill and destroy) and goes up against a knight (Batman, after all he’s called “the dark knight”) to challenge him. That’s my interpretation of how I see the joker in the dark knight, I know it’s a weird way of interpreting the joker’s character and actions in the dark knight, but I feel like it’s an interpretation that hasn’t been brought up about when talking about this film.
👌👌👌
Its like a dark and twisted Heroes Journey. Thats really interesting though I haven't thought of it like that before
🤯🤯🤯 thanks for this!
Bravo! And this proves the point that Batman was SELFISH because he went after Rachel, knowing that the city needed Dent to stay alive because of the good he was doing to "clean up the city." Yeah, Nolan was a badass for allowing a "damsel in distress" to not be saved.
@@djpolo99 He definitely acted out of impulse. I think the point there is that even if you try to act selfishly, it’s not always likely to work out.
Childhood is where you idolize batman. Adulthood is where you realize Joker actually made sense
Goes both ways. We are all flawed. Joker was just way off the deep end when it came to how he acted upon matters. That’s what makes a hero and what makes a villain. It’s How they make the choices.
those are times, not places
Childhood and adulthood are physical conditions, not behaviors.
totally agree.
- from Indonesia -
na batman was always boring and overrated to me... didnt like DC at all except Joker
After all this years there's still so much to say about this movie, it's truly a bonified classic. RIP Heath Ledger
Honestly a beautiful dissection of the film/Jokers plan and it’s relevance to the world
Another masterpiece by Ryan. I want to watch The Dark Knight again after watching this video. It's still my favorite comic book film.
This is why Christopher Nolan does such amazing work on his films. There are real messages in them.
This freaking blew my mind, no wonder why I was loving joker in this one, he was on to something
Most terrorists have an element of truth to what they’re saying. You just have to avoid thinking that they believe that truth and that it’s why they’re doing what they’re doing.
@@christianc.christian5025 The U.S. federal government is corrupt, both sides, and therefore a terrorist to the citizens of the world.
Pretty sure, this movie's message is that everyone has the capacity to follow law or cause chaos, being good and being evil. It's not the one extreme or the other.
It shows that society is fragile at the best of times and it doesn't take much for ppl to drop their morals, I'm right wing and dont mind saying it, the only difference between me and the left wing is that I'm not a hypocrite they are
The thing that worries me personally about the Joker is his TOTAL unpredictability. IF you were working for him, and you were 100% totally loyal, and a great worker, he'd still kill you just on a whim. That makes him very dangerous to everyone, not just those who he perceives as enemies.
Sort of like in the 80's movie when barman took his balloons and asks his number 2 Bob why didn't anybody tell me he had one of those things (referring to the batwing) and Bob simply says we didn't know boss and then joker asks him for his gun and Bob gives it to him and then he just shoots him for no reason. Psychotic
I have been studying human behavior for decades. I taught thousands of people how to understand how humans are motivated. The turning point in my education was when I realized EveryOne is selfish (me first, you second) that it all made sense. Anyone who says you being selfish (in a negative way) wants you to put THEM first. That is the road to self destruction. This video is rational, intelligent and truthful.
I work at Papa Johns and let me tell you, that Papa Rewards reference caught me WAY off guard
But Colonel S...how could you betray your own legacy by working with your competition? Do you not believe in the system of crispy goodness that you've tried to uphold? The fact that you've done this proves Joker's point even moar. When it benefits you, you will act in a way that contradicts your Kentucky Fried Nature. Just...just tell me why? Please
@@cloudcamoKFC didn’t give him his phone call.
To this very day, I remember that interrogation room dialogue sending a cold shiver down my spine when I watched and listened for the very first time. Every single cynical word rang true. THAT's what made it so terrifying. It was haunting.
Joker hanging out the cop car is a legendary image...🚔
You are totally right. I just regret the fact that the proliferation of memes and T-shirts renders those powerful images a travesty of themselves. That's telling.
Dark Knight was my first English movie ever and it showed me the impact story telling has.
Thankyou Ryan for walking us through your amazing perspective.
Harvey was already a troubled person, not the example of a sane man push to far.
The people got against Batman because Batman made himself look like guilty.
And Batman doesn't cause chaos, he push a better order to replace the one people doesn't like but are to scared to dismantle.
As a vigilante Batman imposes the traditional moral even if by doing it he's breaking the laws, because the laws had failed to maintain the social contract.
In "The spirit of the laws" Montesquieu stablish that the important isn't the law itself but the goal it pursues. Batman is the one fighting for these goals.
Yeah, I really think that the recent push to pretend that the Joker was actually an anarchist and Batman is a “fascist” is misguided.
He then surrenders control of everything on principle, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what fascists do.
@@christianc.christian5025 How? Who gives Batman the authority to do what he does? We know it isn't legal, but is it even ethical. I think the video points out that by taking the law into his own hands he disregards the law entirely. In the film, it causes others to dress up like him and do the same. The spirit of the law should be to deter crime and rehabilitate repeat criminals, but batman acts like the people on the boat: He doesn't see criminals as citizens. He thinks only a strong man can make the hard choices. This is something many facist leaders do. They treat certain people as the other and they use that to justify the treatment of those people. I do not think this makes a facist but he is definitely leaning that direction. I don't think he would go as far as a facist but he would support a facist political leader if he thought the could make a difference which mirrored the shift in the US which is why we still talk about this film today, but thats another conversation. I would love to hear what you believe the "spirit of the law" is or how you see batman supporting it.
This is why when your a kid you look up to hero’s but when you become a adult you relate to the villain.
To survive we must revert to our primal ideals
It's both dumie, we have capacity for both law and chaos, good and evil. Watch the movie again.
Been watching you for a lot of MCU stuff but this is your masterpiece. Bravo.
Yes! Totally agree.
He is incorrect about Batman, so no. Batman didn't fight crime because of selfish nature. He did so because he saw how corrupt the system was and acted on the idea to enforce justice not because of his pain. His pain just makes him unavle to live a happy life because there are still people who suffering even if he doesn't. That's the idea behind Batman, he doesn't do it to cause pain on others or avenge his parents. He does what he does so that the horrible things that happened to him can be prevented and dealt with. This guy doesn't seem to understand Batman which is why he thinks Joker is right.
Joker is only right about the fact that our democracy is fragile and needs to be improved and enforced.
They lie because of that fragility that will cause people to lose faith in humanity. The lie is necessary to prevent chaos and in turn prove the best way to look at morality is through consequentialism.
Because everyone knows humans are flawed, the Joker just can't stand the idea that we are flawed. Which means he devalues the notion of goodness in human nature. Joker sees everyone as a monster based on his own nature and not the reality of us.
Yes most of us acts in self interest but not all the time because we are not psychopaths and narcissists.
Most of us feel empathy and understand when we done wrong.
Joker only sees our failings flaws and not the goodness that exist in our humanity.
Your "villain was right" videos are some of my favorite RUclips videos of ALL TIME. Do you have a background in philosophy and/or psychology? Because you absolutely NAIL IT, in these videos. I really appreciate the effort put into them. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 🙌🏾 👍🏾
Great video essay. The part at 17:12 reminds me of what vision said when the avengers were wondering what to do about the Sokovia accords…”our very strength invites challenge. Challenge insides conflict. And conflict, brings catastrophe.” 🤔
Very thought provoking, reminds me that absolute power corrupts absolutely, every system is flawed.
Humans gonna human.
Yet we strive to make the best of what we got.
Both Authoritarinism and Anarchy tend to have disastrous results.
"Power does not necessarily corrupt. Rather, those that are easily corruptible tend to seek power" - Frank Herbert
Anarchy is not chaos, that's propaganda. It just means "Without ruler" (greek: an archia). It is the political theory of self governing societies with almost no hierarchies or steep power structures (although some hierarchies are acknowledged as necessary, like parents and children or a temporary project lead). Everybody else is equal to another. The main tool of decision making would be a direct-democratic approach, without representatives. In that sense anarchy is the embodiment of an egalitarian society and to this date something like this has never been tried on a big scale. Therefore we can't tell if it would produce disastrous results.
@@PeterSchmuttermaier That’s fair. Practically, how would that egalitarian lack of heirarchy be sustained? I would imagine most situations eventually devolve into rule of the strong or might makes right.
@@EverettBurger that seems reasonable. I guess it’s more accurate to say power exposes how corrupt you are or could be
@@danielkimoto1008 Well, there are different ideas on how to handle that. Most social groups are peaceful and stable as long as they can provide for everybody. The group decides democratically, what the rules, rights and duties of every member are and how to enforce them, if people break them. This is especially tricky, since a police force is per definition not equal, but has previleges and power over others. A possible solution would be a rotating system that lets everybody within the community, who is capable of doing the job, be part of the police for a limited time. This method would prevent people from staying in a position of power for too long. Together with social workers this could work well for most situations. But these are just ideas, just as capitalism started out as an idea that needed tweaking, which lead to the social democracies in Europe. Democracy started as an idea and failed oftentimes spectacularly (the German "Weimarer Republik", for example). But a good idea should not be dropped because of some initial flaws, but patched and further developed instead, don't you think?
This is exactly what I've been saying for some years now!! To add a bit into your analysis of the Boat Test, here's an extract of a piece I wrote some time ago:
Firstly, let's all remember the voting results in the Citizen's ferry: 140 Against (Blowing up the other boat)-396 For. Democracy dictated that the Prisoners had to die in principle. 396 people against 140 thought and voted to kill those men. Now before the captain decides what to do based on those votes, when told to "Go ahead and do it!" His answer is as moronic as ever: "We are still here, which means they haven't killed us yet either.” So this captain is clearly unaware that the other boat is full of dangerous prisoners who would most definitely not be given the option to vote for anything in this matter and that those who can make the decision would, theoretically, be obliged to let the boat full of innocent law-abiding citizens live at all costs in such scenario. Also, we can clearly see a hint of disappointment in the captain’s face right after the bald all bark no action guy could not bring himself to press the button puts the detonator down in its box.
Secondly, on the Prisoner’s ferry, as time is running short and prisoners are yelling at the captain of that ship to press the button, a big black guy gets up and walks straight to him. He delivers perhaps one of the most interesting lines by a non-protagonist character in the film: “You don’t want to die, but you don’t know how to take a life. Give it to me. These men will kill you and take it anyways... Give it to me and I’ll do what you should have did 10 minutes ago.” I think we can all agree at this point, if we were the captain, we would understand that he is offering to blow up the boat in order to keep everyone in the prisoner’s ferry alive, right? Well the captain does give him the detonator. He willingly gives it to this prisoner. The prisoner throws it out of the window and the captain’s reaction is beautifully priceless. He looks back at the prisoner stunned, feeling almost betrayed as everyone else decides to give up and wait for the 12 o’clock deadline.
So if we look at the scene closely, the majority of people in both boats were willing to blow up the other boat in order to live. The people IN CHARGE of the decision (e.g. The populus in the Civilian’s Ferry and the Federal Authorities in the Prisoner’s Ferry) decided to give into the Joker’s game. They did not stood up against him, they did not say “No Mr. Clown we are all good people here and we will not play your stupid game.” The only reason why no one presses the button is because they cannot live up to their own decisions. They WANTED to blow up the other boat and live but ultimately COULD NOT bring themselves to put their money where their mouth was. It was only because of the actions of ONE person in each boat that the actual intent of the majority was not done: The prisoner that decided to throw away the detonator (after receiving it from the man in charge voluntarily under the impression that he would actually press the button, I must reinforce.) and the coward man who was just about to blow them up, but could not do it even though democracy dictated it and he himself was its greatest instigator.
I still think that the detonator would blow up the boat that gave into murder.
@@imjessietr29 It's possible, but I think it's infinitely more powerful and it serves the Joker's goals better if whoever blew up the other boat really did it and had to live knowing what they did.
Despite the majority votes, both leaders dumped the detonators. All philosophies are merely someone's opinions.
I’m a huge Batman fan and this film really showed the potential dark side of The Bat and Joker pointed it out beautifully. And you just made it make sense to every one that thought differently. Keep up the great work. Always love your work.
This explanation has opened my eyes to the parallels we see in our society today. So much to think about that is mirrored in this movie. Thanks Ryan.
If you save people, you’re a criminal, if they don’t save people, you’re a coward that should be considered a criminal and if you say otherwise, you’re definitely a criminal. Our society is mentally ill.
"He can't live with his own pain so he wanted to make other people feel that pain." I can't say if this is true of Nolan's Batman or not. It definitely could be. I'd have to watch those films a few more times, and more closely, and I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct. But in many of the BEST versions of Batman (i.e. from a lot of the comics to Adam West's to The Animated Series' [the definitive version imo]), Batman's longing isn't to inflict the pain that was dealt to him unto (deserving) others, but to save (innocent) others from being dealt that same pain. The best Batmen, while sometimes having a dark, scary, violent exteriors, are compassionate, empathetic people. It's possessing those attributes that makes Batman a hero rather than a maniac.
The fact that his boat breakdown can be completely argued to the contrary just goes to show how the concept of right and wrong are two sides of the same coin… like Dent’s two headed coin that turned a peaceful existence (when he knew both sides were the same) into a torturous one (when he saw the two sides as polar opposites)
Great analysis. Your points on social contracts were great. Made me think of how educators and youth workers have to play that game with creating classroom rules/social contracts
Brilliant episode Ryan, a little cynical, but on point with Joker being right about good people turning bad in desperation. I do still have hope in people and I think that we strive for goodness, despite negative surroundings. Harvey Dent was right to strive for justice, and positive feedback that encourages good deeds differentiates healthy psychology versus psychopathic behaviour. Psychopath’s don’t care about the opinions of others, which is how they justify their actions. Beneficial societal members do care what other’s think and incorporate the feedback into their decision making. Ultimately we have a choice to acquiesce to easy decisions, or do what we think is right, fair and just. It’s why superheroes are self sacrificing and strive for the greater good. Our choices ultimately come down to our morels that guide our ethical decision making. ‘Good’ people on ‘both’ sides is a subjective perspective, and the ferry test illustrated that beautifully. Like a Yin-Yang, every good person has a bit of bad, and every bad person has a bit of good.
I think that this take by SC isn’t just cynical. While I really liked the examination, I think it’s missing the two key factors on each end.
Batman *isn’t* a “fascist” (this word was used repeatedly in place of “authoritarian” and I really can’t stress enough that they’re not the same thing.) Just look at the Caesar example: “The last person they appointed was named Caesar and he never gave *up* his power!”
At the end of the movie, it’s exactly what Bruce does with Fox and his spy program. He *had* to act unilaterally (which is a major indicator of authoritarianism) but then surrendered it willingly on principle. As for why ‘fascism’ =/= ‘authoritarianism’, while both can be bad, fascism *always* is because it’s authoritarian hegemony. Hegemony is probably the single most important ingredient to fascism.
On the other end of things, I don’t believe that the Joker was telling the truth about *anything.* Whether he changed his mind on the way or always thought this, I think he just wanted an excuse to kill and terrorize while maintaining his own power to do so. I don’t think that he actually cared about the ‘why’ (which here was the decadence of society.) Just look at what he says when he finally seizes control: “This is my city.”
"Some men just want to watch the world burn." Is such a good line, but because of the story that precedes it.
Alfred Pennyworth is special forces for an Imperialist expeditionary force invading third world countries. The fact that he's willing to burn down the world around him to stop *thieves* shows that he was actually the villain of the story while the thieves were giving out gems to poor people.
His story is about the demonstrative power of forcing state authority to pull the mask off of its cruel, brutal methods of maintaining power. His warning that some men just want to watch the world burn is two-fold. On the one hand it seems like mindless chaos from the perspective of the people doing the burning. On the other hand, they're the ones burning the world.
Batman's struggle in this film is to resist being pushed into this corner by the Joker's escalating methods. He even decides to use a Bush-style surveillance program against Lucius Fox's wishes.
The turning point is the end when Batman decides not to cross the line... and the Joker is proven wrong... so the Joker decides to burn the world because he can't relinquish his power.
Batman overcomes the fear and panic that being a tyrant engenders and trusts in people. So the Joker becomes the tyrant.
So batman turned the joker into the villain he thought he wasn't damn batman is so cool
"Madness is like gravity. All it takes is a little push."
I hadn't realized that was adapted from The Killing Joke. Joker tells Batman over an announcement system in the circus, "All it takes is one bad day. You had a bad day once. Why else would you dress up like a flying rat?" Alan Moore. Genius. Only in the Graphic Novel, Jim Gordon was being driven over the edge.
Props to David Goyer. Nice work! 😁
This all just proves why Heath Ledger's Joker is the best live action Joker.
I'd argue best villain ever.
In the movies anyway
way overrated and over hyped... it was an average joker at best.
But did you notice the most important thing, the one thing that stands out the most about the joker. The thing that makes him who he is and the action that he does and why he does it.
He's wearing a hexagon shirt
NOT THE BEEES!!!!!
Well done. This is also true of characters like the Comedian in Watchmen, and Vision/Ultron in the Avengers. They point to our inherent flaws in trying to establish order in an otherwise disorderly world, and that when enhanced individuals attempt to right the wrongs in the world, they are inviting even worse adversaries to replace the problems they’ve attempted to fix. This is a constant thematic trope in story telling but also a truth in life itself and why we as an audience connect with these themes so well. Even if only subconsciously, we know that this is always a possibility and often a probable one. It sometimes takes the most outwardly negative, vibrant and judgmental individuals to show us that fixing a problem isn’t enough, and that sometimes simply changing the problem or the perception of the problem is all that is needed, not eradicating it entirely, as that leaves a void for something worse.
This was a really profound and well-structured video. Thank you Ryan and SC!
Is there more behind the stories about this Joker's scares? 1st story is an outwardly abuse father terrorizing his mother. 2nd is him abusing himself to please his wife. Always felt like there was a message there. Could be just creepy stories or maybe he picks the story based on who he's talking to at the moment.
ryan explained it pretty well in this video. about the scars. it’s a coded message. to us the viewers.
Throughout the MCU and even in The Dark Knight trilogy, one theme that has been consistent with pretty much every antagonist is that they're the only ones courageous enough to understand the problems that inherently plague the society and at least try do something about it, albeit in their own villaneous and twisted way. A superhero or superheroes come to stop their evil plans and save the day, or should I say save the status quo. The problems still exist and they completely ignore it and even if they do manage to address it, still won't do much about it. I mean sure Tony snapped his fingers and brought back everyone who got dusted back to life, but did he fix the underlying problem though?! Thanos WAS right and he always will be.
What about the Batman Animated episode “The Trial”? Where all the criminals put Batman on trial for creating them? That is a good rebuttals against your comment that his existence invites chaos
It's been a part of the Batman Mythos for a while at least since the Dark Knight Returns comics in the 80s that Batman causes the Freakshow of his villains that before Batman there was just organized crime and after Batman inspired super villains in Gotham
Yes but then the episode argued that the rogues created themselves and Batman had little involvement what happened to them
This is top 3 my favorite videos that you’ve made! This was an amazing breakdown and i cant wait to see more psychological break downs like this! Keep up the PHENOMENAL WORK @ScreenCrush!
i love when you prove the villain right.
Awesome analysis. I never thought of it like that. Makes me love the movie even more!
I gotta point out: the part where the revolver was to jokers hand was not chaos at all. Look closer and notice there are no bullets in the gun. He gave harvey the illusion of a choice and how he could stir chaos, but it was actually a pre-determined absolute. If he would have pulled the trigger, it would have shown how he did fall to his level, and he didn't want to show that, but no matter his choice, the joker knew his way was the only way. Nothing harvey did coukd have changed what happened.
Like Harvey’s coin…
17:11 that sounds very similar to what Vision said in Captain America: Civil War lol.
"Our very strength invites challenge. Challenge incites conflict, and conflict breeds catastrophe."
Today's society governs itself to instill order and are afraid to fall into chaos. The issue at hand is that without chaos, there will never be order; they are one in the same. You cannot have one without the other, trying to separate the two is a fools job. Hence the corruption within the society be it human equality or the worlds governing. You will always have your Batmans, but on the same token, Batman's presence invites a Joker to challenge his authority. One carrying the flag for justice while the other carries the flag for anarchy, yet they both have to go outside the norm for the way the society they live in. Joker was correct when he said that he and Batman are one of the same. Whether their intentions are good or bad, they both are going outside of the law to uphold their own version of order and chaos.
There is some truth to that, but then again, it’s like Gordon said: “ we buy semi-autos, they buy autos”. It’s a natural escalation. Besides, they make it sound like it’s wrong to be strong or to challenge anyone. Was it wrong for Batman to challenge the mob? No. The system was too corrupt and broken to achieve that. Same thing with Kingpin in Daredevil.
As for the Joker, how could anyone predict something like that occurring? That someone was just lying in wait for some excuse to take such amoral action? No. The problem is it’s never as simple as one or the other. Are we to say that it was because of Batman that the Joker rose up in this movie? Or are we going to put any sort of personal responsibility on Joker as a free thinking individual with personal choice?
Batman himself and his relationship to Rachael is another example to this that proves the Joker right. Bruce is ready to give up Batman in hope that he and Rachel are together and start a family to fulfill that loss that he has been seeking ever since he became Batman. Even the power of enacting order hasn’t been enough and when Rachel is pursued by Harvey in a serious relationship Bruce has to choose between sacrificing his life and happiness to continue to be Batman and preserve order or his hope for maybe starting a family with Rachel and allowing chaos and corruption run rampant in Gotham. He makes the selfish choice.
Joker recognizes this in the scene where “the way you threw yourself at her” does Dent know about you and his little squeeze. And brings it to his attention during the interrogation where Batman is acting like a cop. Gordon notes that Batman has it under control and won’t do anything that will jeopardize the legal case. When the Joker mentions this Batman throws away the honor code, the cop demeanor, and begins beating the Joker to an inch of of his life. Proving the joker right Batman doesn’t care about this case out of duty he cares about it because he loves the girl and will throw away all he believes in to act on his self interest.
Joker then intentionally gives Bruce the wrong address so he ends up saving Dent, and purposely kills Rachel. Knowing her death will throw one or both Batman/Dent over the edge to violate their beliefs and ethics in order for vengeance.
I appreciated the analysis on the fairy scene but I still think that scene holds the movie back from greatness. The characters don’t act or talk like “real” people, they feel more like symbolic cardboard cutouts than actual characters. Maybe that’s on purpose but it really felt out of place in the movie
Have you ever seen people during a true life-or-death emergency? They sometimes can’t even form coherent thoughts much less avoid sounding like cardboard replicas because their brains go on autopilot.
One of my favorite movies all time, glad u covered this.
What other villains do you think were right?
Zemo
Dock Ock and Mr. Negative from Spider-Man PS4
Magneto from X-Men
Ultron from Age of Ultron
Zemo from Captain America Civil War
Killmonger from Black Panther
All 😁😂
Okay now do batman's take on this I wanna see what you come up with
Hitler
“Don’t do murder and terrorism”
- a hero
Wow! Great analysis of a great movie. Fantastic video Ryan
I'm from Indonesia. Thank you for this brilliant video for its deeper analysis on this masterpiece. I totally agree, that the main reason why this movie is still the best, is because of how deep & realistic it is in portraying about our society & humanity, which is extremely rare in any movies.
"World War Three has been going on for YEARS, but everybody has been too distracted by the commercials to notice!" -- Jerry Cornelius, "The Final Programme" =>1973
Great introspective look into this masterpiece! Please come back on Preston & Steve. The segments they did with you were awesome.
Wow Ryan. you really hit the nail right on the head here. Best explanation ever.
18 years later and people still talking about this movie. Truly was a masterpiece. I have a feeling No Way Home won't be remembered for this long
lmao your profile picture and then your username hahahahaha
that is why batman is not a hero. He is the Dark Knight because he already knows the psychology of the people he protects and the people fights against.
Love the boat scene break down. Good stuff!
Really well done piece. Would throw out one critique. The biggest weakness in the argument is that the Joker's conclusion is to lose all respect for human life. This is the one area where he is proven wrong. He believed he could make everyone like him, whereas in the end most of the people he manipulates maintain their desire to preserve life. While tempted, he is really only able to turn Harvey into a murderer, and that takes an enormous personal effort. This mirrors his continued attempts in the comics to make Batman take a life. While he puts a huge strain on the system and gets people to acknowledge its many flaws, he is not able to fully erode that last level of human decency that he himself has lost.
What effort was it to turn Harvey into a murderer? Losing his girlfriend and being burned was all it took. It shows how even the most "upstanding moral" people can have narcissistic traits and the moment you take away their outward image, they can become evil. So the insides reflect the outside. People become on the inside what they project onto the world by their external image? Either that, or they were always evil to begin with. Harvey faced adversity. What he CHOSE to become afterwards was his choice and his choice alone. Not joker, nor anyone else made him that way. Hence the hypocrisy of most everyone in a "civil society."
The argument is that he had to personally intervene and prey on Harvey's particular weaknesses in order to push him over the edge. Joker gloats about doing so to Batman late in the film. Many Joker stories rely on the argument that "anyone can become as bad as me if they have a bad enough day." Here, Joker was purposefully engineering the worst days imaginable for Harvey. While Harvey still makes his choices, to say Joker did not play a huge role in causing his downfall does not make sense to me.
@@andrewlessman3403 because we personally have a choice as to how we respond to adversity in life no matter what, who or how it happens to us.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the Joker bears no responsibility for pushing Harvey to those choices. Killing his fiance, leaving him horrifically scarred, then planting seeds in his mind when he is at his most vulnerable is a lot. Again, the Joker taunts Batman with what he has done to Harvey. It was all intentional. Not sure what you are really arguing here, but have enjoyed the back-and-forth.
@@andrewlessman3403 all it shows is that Harvey is not a mentally strong person. So his "tough on crime" stance is only skin deep. He doesn't deeply stand for his convictions. Joker just showed that he indeed is two faced, like society and everyone else under certain circumstances. As someone who has experienced unspeakable horrors and trauma, I absolutely can testify with first hand knowledge that how we respond to trauma is infinitely more powerful than blaming the ones who harmed us.
This was absolutely excellent. Thank you for making this video. It put a lot of things in perspective, and gave me a lot to think about with my own morality and ethics.
Made me think as well, but after some consideration I believe I'm a good person since I always tip my asian escorts well and pay my dealers on time
I finally get the name of your channel...
You absolutely crushed it!!!
...well done!
There were a fwe minor mis-quotes in some of the anologies, such as 'murder' versus 'killing' in the Fifth Commandment (Exodus 20:13) and the 'love' of money being a root of evil and not money itself (1 Tim 6:10). However, Ryan's general premise here seems sound: Batman would not exist if the very system he seeks support would be worth supporting. This is definately a good thought experiment, right up there with Schrödinger's cat and the Kobayashi Maru.
The only thing besides The watchmen DC has done that I like.
I really say this is the best comic book movie of all time
I don't think the man,batman or even harvey were selfish.Harvey did all he could do and went crazy.And the man couldn't live with all those deaths so he didn't pull the trigger and Batman although naive isn't selfish but is actually a lot like the joker only he wsnts people to "feel safe" rather than be safe,knowing they couldn't know what "safe" is.
Life changing vid, man. Baffling to see it only has 100k views.
If humanity ended tomorrow, the world and all it's creatures would continue to thrive and heal.
The Joker, like Thanos, was absolutely right!
Thanos wasn't right, at all.
Great topic & brilliant execution, as usual !
I really enjoy your videos. Thank you !!
Great video! I enjoyed it more than any video I’ve seen in a long time!
This is your best video yet, mate. Really appreciate you.
This channel is the new “Wisecrack” but even better because of Doug.
Well damn, I've seen this movie more times than I can count and this video proves that everytime you watch it you can see something new, no matter if it's the 100th time. Time to go watch it again... thanks for the excuse Ryan
Omg your breakdowns are the best. This was so awesome, thanks.👍
I've said this for a while... Batman/Bruce Wayne is the true villain of this franchise. He is a BILLIONAIRE and chooses to use his wealth to fight the mafia. Poverty is the root of most crime. He could have eliminated a chunk of poverty in Gotham City. All of the criminals locked up and people STILL behaved like the mob WHEN money was offered. Could you imagine meeting the Joker to receive your "reward" for killing the snitch who was going to reveal Batman's identity? Lol. People were that desperate!
Umm poverty is only the root of most crime in developed countries. And it is due to envy
Honestly these pop philosophy videos are 🔥🔥🔥. Thank you for making these videos 🙏🙏
As the saying goes, "Childhood is when you idolize Batman. Adulthood is when you realize the Joker makes more sense".
Great video. I enjoy listening to your theories and arguments
Always fun to see stuff like Milgram and Two-Face on a thumbnail together. 🤗 Solid analysis as always.
We live in a milgram mondail 3xperience right now
Seeing Harvey reminded me of how good the Long Halloween movies were. Is there a Long Halloween video on this channel? There should be.
Again, Joker's monologue is barnone the most relevant quote of today. Other than Padme's "This is how liberty dies..."
The Joker logic is simple.... "All you need, is just one bad day"
Heath Ledger just smashed it as Joker amazing his greatest work before his tragic death
R I P
The "normal" people in society will never want to give up there vision of what is good and bad, this video couldnt have explained it any better, It really hits hard in politics, thinking about for example even just the basics, Like Communism/socialism vs democracy, they are both systems of control that in the long run will always end up benefiting the few instead of the many, society will eventually collapse, the pandemic is great, shows just how violent people can get when their systems of control start to fail, and that there is no perfect system, at least not one that would encompass all of society and humanity
Joker was always right like you said and Ryan said humanity shows it’s true colors every single time. Like the saying goes “It’s never a problem until it effects me/you”.
True communism has never been accomplished.
Great video, reminds me of a something I was to in therapy, that "there is no such thing as a truly selfless action".
"Since Darth Vader, Ledger's Joker captivated audiences"
Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin: "Why wasn't I told....YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!"
Well-made! Although I don't interpret some of the scenes and points of the film the same way. But outstanding! I think the Dark Knight still stands up as the best superhero movie. Basically because Batman has no special powers and can bleed. He can suffer. I think Logan is a good second choice. Although I wonder if Nolan has been allowed to make an R-rated version of The Dark Knight, what we might have gotten? But back to the boat scene. The one part of the film I actually don't like. I always found it to be binary and also put most of the characters in the same as stereotypes. But good points are right about Batman using what some might call fascist tools to defeat anarchist. And you can criticize Harvey Dent, but I think Batman and Gordon made a choice to do what was in the best interest of the city, of the society. At that point, why should Harvey death be in vain. As Batman said he was the best of us. Yes in the final of the trilogy it comes back to bite then in the ass. But when people are trying to sustain Society. They sometimes make sacrifices, often of the rights of the citizens but also in the interests of the citizens. Who can't say that Gordon or the Batman would not lay down their life to save their City period at the end of Batman Rises, or hero takes a nuclear weapon away from Gotham to save it. Also after The Dark Knight Batman goes silent 4/8 years. That's not an act of a fascist. Also in The Dark Knight You can disagree with how Batman use technology. But he trusted to an individual with great integrity. And that technology imploded at the end of the movie. Imagine him giving that technology to what we call the authorities? It would not have gone away and we would have more of a fascist state, hypothetically speaking. This video is outstanding in that it brings a lot I'm the actions of the characters and makes their motivations not so binary. Life is grey, and even people that want to do the right thing sometimes make a decision based on their own wellbeing whether a social or psychological. But the history of this Society has shown that at its best during WWII soldiers once Omaha Beach knowing their chances of survival were less than 50%. That's not a selfish Choice it's not a psychological Choice it's a binary choice. You believe in something so strongly that you're willing to back it up with your life. If someone wants yell at me it's not an argument. I'm not making a case any more than the author of the video it is. But rather making observations and connecting them to societal historics
i love this series
Ryan @screencrush all of your break downs and behind the scene Easter eggs are sooooooo great but this analysis of the Joker from the Dark Knight is so spot on and one of your best! I saw The Dark Knight 11 times in the theater and each time I would catch different things about the movie and pay attention to certain actors performances. Gary Oldmans performance is so damn good and honestly one of my favorites in the movie. It goes without saying how incredible Heath Ledger performance was as the Joker and is sad that we will never get to see the original trilogy that was planned because of his death.
The Dark Knight is such a brilliant film for so many reasons, the cinematography, the score, the amazing actors, and the overall story. Nolan use lighting and putting characters in partial shadow to create a duality is visual story telling at it's best! One of the things I would point out is how important the interrogation scene is to the overall theme of the movie. You touch on it through out the video but I feel everything the Joker says to Batman basically sums up your analysis and the Jokers whole philosophy. Side note another thing that makes this scene so great is how Nolan films both characters and the lighting he uses for the scene, which goes back to the theme of duality that is one of the common threads through out the film. Damn there are so many great things about this movie and I feel it can be one of those films used in film schools for analysis.
I can't thank you enough for all you do and your channel is one of my top favorites to watch. I love me some Doug and every time he is on a video I laugh so hard. :-) Thank You for this video and I look forward to you doing more great stuff this year! Happy New Year Ryan!
If Heath ledgers joker met up Brad Pitts, Tyler Durden, they would make the perfect duo. as Tyler Durden once said “once we’ve lost everything we’re free to do anything?”
The Joker is my Hero💯
This was excellent analysis. I don't think you reached, you nailed the Dark Knight's messaging.
Thank u for explaining Jokers psychology. A lot of people don’t understand how he thinks and he is way smarter than people think he is.
excellent video ryan!!
This reminded me of the video made by Film Theory that the Joker saved Gotham
Worth watching?
Definitely...
FOR GODS SAKE NOW WAS WRONG
This was more than just a comic book movie, this was a tell all of how human society has operated for thousands of years.
The proper translation of the commandment is " thou shall not murder"
Thank you...there's a difference between killing and murdering. Idk why he brought up that specific commandment but doesn't mention the Lord gives guidelines for when it is okay to take lives or punishment for such actions when it's accidental vs on purpose and etc.