Hopefully you enjoyed this video that we had a bit of fun creating - racing an electric car and a petrol car from Sydney to Melbourne as quick as we could!
Haven’t watched it yet but I know it will be awesome! I would also love to an updated ev range test with all the new evs and the updated ones like the new Kona and model 3. Thanks for the great videos!
@@noidea9279 Then subtract the savings from the extra cost to buy the EV and see how stupid the EV buyer is. You can even work out how many Sydney to Melbourne runs they have to make before the EV buyer breaks even. By then, he is due for a $30,000 battery pack - possibly his second. They never break even.
@@michaelherlihy2090 Coming from Ireland is no recommendation for working stuff out, but to argue a bigger cost differential there does not change the situation here in Aus, and I never said it applied universally, so I see the Irish in your argument. We are in a high price cycle here, and I estimated cautiously on top of that. Believe me, they are uneconomical here. There was a survey done that said a Tesla was dearer than a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the long term, so I am not alone in claiming there are no savings in most parts of the world. In Aus, there are zero incentives, except for in NSW, and they give about the equivalent of 480 euros - a pittance. Some states are considering road taxing them; I believe Victoria already does. If my comparisons are out, I'll blame it on my Irish great granny.
These guys drive SLOW 900 km is 540 miles, which is a 7.5 hour trip in the US. The EV would have had a LOT worse duration at higher speeds. This test was optimized for the EV's speed/power usage range. If they'd put on 20% more speed the EV would have failed even worse.
I liked how you explained the charging curve. Would be interesting to show a race between two of the same EV's, where one uses ABRP, and the other fills to 100%. Even some EV owners don't understand
In EV:s with lower charging power you also must weigh in the optimal speed. If you drive 100 km/h instead of 110 km/h, the less charging needed will often make your charging stops so much fewer and shorter that it is a win time wise. In the Ioniq 5 though, I don't think you will gain from driving slower.
@@altoclef6688 Generally speaking it's better to speed in an EV, end up at a DC fast charger close to 0%, then charge to ~60% battery, or wherever the charging curve drops off significantly and get back on the road. This assumes most charging stations are close to highway exits and exist about every 175 km along your route. This is because charging rates at low states of charge far exceed driving speeds. I.e. at peak charging rates I get 1600 kilometers of range per hour of charge. Granted your calculus will change if you're limited to, say, 50 kW chargers.
@@Connor_Herman I am limited to 77 kW up to 55% SoC, then it drops to 55 kW. That's what I mean "in EV:s with lower charging power..". I also have very good range, which means it is possible I reach my destination without fast charging at all (slow charging over night) if I drive a tad slower. Drove to another city 200 km away and back on highway, drove the baby sitter to her place 2 x 25 km, still had 60 km on the GOM. Went for 100 km/h instead of 110 km/h where 110 was allowed. Driving faster would have won me 30 minutes on driving and cost me at least 30 minutes at the charger.
@@Connor_Herman Actually10-75% usually is the ideally charge to drive ration you want Also your 'drive at 110Km/h versus 100Km/h' theory doesn't really hold water since ...well.. physics The extra 10Km/h algorithmicly increases the energy usage as wind resistance increases. All vehicles have an optimal speed to operate at and so your 10% faster speed does not linearly translate to the slower car ONLY going 10% further o the same SOC..... it will actually be much further and so.....whilst the hare goes faster but stops more often...the tortoise will pass..stop less and keep going since the stops for charge will e approx similar the math sides with the vehicle on the road for longer periods between charges Please feel free to check the math.. test it and prove me wrong
This is a constructed experiment - in the real world fast charges are not available on a large scale and those who are, are usual prone to long queues of cars. And then there´s the weather - hardly a challenge for the Ionic 5 in +20 C but try it out in -5 C and you´ll get a much different result. Maybe this test is tailored for Australia and not most of the world.
@@chasingcars Not bad. Although if you weren’t in a rush to get there you could do it for free with the nrma 50kw chargers which I know are a heap slower but I mean they are free so not a bad compromise.
I owned an EV for two years before I drove it 1,000+ km in a day. And when I did I went all in and did several of them in a row. In doing that I learned a benefit I didn't realize: lack of fatigue. EVs are quieter and that affects your tiredness. Apparently there's research on this: extended loud noise makes you tired. And you can tell in this video that the petrol car is louder. That wears on you on a 1,000+ km drive.
Yeah EVs are really approaching that sweet spot range wise, think I read somewhere that at 250 miles you'll usually need to stop for the bathroom at least once anyway. And having that break promotes safer driving anyway.
@@davids-c1f not had that happen yet, the charging stations let you know if they're busy in the apps. Plus there's already more charging locations than petrol stations in the UK anyway. I'm sure it will happen at some point, if I travel on a very busy day. I have had to hop between a few nearby stations once, but ended up at a nice pub in the end and just had dinner there while it charged. In the last few years petrol stations have also just not had petrol to sell some days or weeks, and as I can charge at home I'd at least avoid that concern.
One of the big things for me, is not just the charging times and trip time (although, it is something that I consider, as I often do long drives like this with only 1 or 2 comfort stops) But one thing about this trip, they didn't just jump in the car and go, they had to sit and plan, where the chargers were, how much charge they'd need at each charging station, etc. I'd love to see the same test done by someone without any EV experience, and then see how they go.
@@adambrims13 Yep, I haven't done Sydney, but I've done Adelaide a few times, usually 2 stops, and I've done Melbourne to Canberra several times, and that's usually 1 stop, but has been done a couple times non stop. Also, I think about when my dad and brother drove to Harvey Bay for my Uncles funeral, they drove, just driver swapping. As I tell plenty of people, I'm not against EV's, I'd actually have one for running back and forth to work, but in terms of replacing my Commodore, they're just not there yet.
The technology is there now to allow the app to do it for you. Just like sat nav enter your destination and software can be used to tell you not just your route but will maximise your charge and direct you to the charging points. In fact Tesla already does it and has done from it's very early days.
@@stephenhodgson3506 seems like we are relying on technology too much.... When the reality is "chargers are under maintenance" or vehicles are in a queue.... And we continually use an app to find out this info ...it seems like a more complicated setup vs fill up and go ⛽
@@fireWireX4 and does not technology control the pumps and inform the suppliers when to visit a petrol station? The technology that allows you to pay with a debit or credit card.
Excellent test, and mirrors my experience with the Ioniq 5 on road trips. Plus I arrive much more relaxed. Just one thing: the max charge rate is 225 kW, not 350 kW. It is stated a bit confusing: "10-80% in 18 minutes on a 350 kW charger", but that just means that the charger has to be an 800V charger. The car will never reach 350 kW.
Hyundai did this with Kona too. In advertisement they say - at 100 KW Charger, you can charge a Kona from 10 to 80 % in xxx minutes.... But they do not say nothing about that Kona can take only 73- 75 KW, and, of course, at a very defined circumstances (temperature, state of charge, etc). So many reviewers just say - Kona can be charged at 100 KW.
How stressful is it to continually having to worry about how much charge you have, where you can get more charge, if you can get charge there that'll let you reach the next charging station, etc etc? It'd make me totaly jittery
Basically one must always be racing time when driving an EV to arrive 40 minutes behind an ICE that enjoyed a leisurely road trip. I didn't catch on when the Tucson was near empty did we do like the EV and just put in a bare minimum of petrol (±10 liters) to get to destination. It was a race, right ? An iffy comparison at best. A one and a half to two hours difference would be closer to reality, unless, like you say, it's a race.
@@richardroberson9277 thank you. If you can’t sit and concentrate for more than 2 hours I’m not so sure I want to be driving next to you. If you know your comfort levels and you need it cool…but please don’t assume we are all like that. Personally…I find 400-500km my rest break…but in saying that my brother (truck driver) reg does heaps more than that in cars.
Nice work, although the most useful bit of information was the total charge time, since comfort breaks are driver dependent. I can then adjust for local charging circumstances. The total time didn't mean much since it wasn't very clear what's included for each pair.
i thought that too, but from experience, the average speed is pretty normal. they didn't really take extra long breaks just to make ev look better with that average speed.
I think this is more a testimony of how good the ioniq 5 is than a proof that EVs can keep up with ICE. The ioniq has an amazing battery and immensely fast charging capabilities but if I did this with any other current ev (I'd.3, eC4, Mégane E-tech etc, with little more than 100kw chargers) and my current charging network that only goes up to 150kw in my country, and my diesel having lower consumption and bigger range, the difference would be much greater. Furthermore, we like to drive at 120km/h not 110. Kudos for Hyundai! I would have liked it if you guys also discussed costs of the trip, that would be a nice addition.
@@chasingcars Ideas like these can really become your channel's USP. You can also consider reviewing used cars in the manner of ReDriven. To my knowledge, it is currently the only Australian car channel reviewing used cars.
That was a great test. Loved the time you made in the electric car and it really surprised me. I drive on this route very often (1-3 times a month) and over time i have narrowed down my stop to only one at BP Wangaratta of 15-20 mins. I only need 1 nature break as I visit toilets before leaving and upon arriving. I also usually time my departure and arrivals on off peak hours so that drastically reduces overall trip times. Ohh and i drive an RX 350 with approx 700 kms of range on a tank. and my avg travel time for this trip is 8:30 hrs.
@@jaredscott4829 I mean go cry to truck drivers and courier drivers then. :') If a person doesn't know their limits they are the danger... not the over 2 hours at a time of driving... I could maybe MAYBE agree with the 2 hours then break back in the days of no power steering, boaty cars that took work to keep on the road and in your lane but these days if someone needs a break every 2 hours, they're the problem.
@@SpuddyLlama lol what? Your g-string a little too tight today? The point is no one knows their limits, its standard fatigue management backed by scientific evidence on the topic. Truck drivers have regulated fatigue management schemes. I don't give a shit what you could maybe agree with. Some twat being a hero on RUclips isn't a valid rebuttal to science.
@@SpuddyLlama Yes yes we get it, you're a hero who doesn't ever get tired, make mistakes or get annoyed by other idiots on the road. Congrats, save some adulation for the rest of us. I've driven 18 hours at a stretch through unfamiliar terrain in winter conditions, stopping every 4 hours only as long as necessary to piss, wash the windows and fuel up. Should I have? No. As a reasonably mature adult can I acknowledge in hindsight that it was a stupid idea? Yes. I felt like shit and I more clearly understand now that after 10-11 hours in the seat my reactions were impaired and IF I'd been in an emergency situation I likely would not have made the best of it. Stretching my breaks out to 20 minutes every 3 hours would have cost me an extra hour, maybe 90 minutes at most and I'd have arrived fresher and been much less of a hazard to other drivers. Where are you driving that an extra half hour makes such a difference or is it just your ego that's making you put up such a fuss?
Really good comparison. I’m glad someone is making the point about petrol stops being longer than just 2 minutes when you factor everything else in. Another advantage of EV is the full charge you leave home with and if you have a destination charger only need to arrive on a few percent where as the petrol car would need to be driven to a petrol station before the start of the trip adding additional time.
If an EV will do the entire trip on 1 charge, the ICE car will have range to spare. And there will most certainly be a gas station on the way if absolutely necessary. You don't even have to plan ahead. There will be one. Can't say the same about the high capacity charging stations.
So you can’t fill up the petrol car the day before the trip? Such a silly argument. Also to fill up at a petrol station literally only takes 2 minutes and another 2 minutes to pay. We just returned from Newcastle to Melbourne and the ZB Commodore still had 1/4 of a tank remaining when we filled up at Albury. Seems this test was made artificially competitive as the Tucson driver had to take a long lunch stop but the Ioniq driver just had to do the charging stops.
Of course all so sudden EV car don't need to this factor everything else that ice driver need to do. How about also mentioning that sometimes there is a queue in petrol station. Of course don't mention it for EV. How about mentioning you charge free since you have solar panels home. Without mentioning the need to buy a house with solar panels in the first place. EV is make sense for certain people,but like my cousin who live in apartments that's not the case, justifying free charger in shopping centre,but neglect to mention 15 detour + charging time + the time to look for empty charges port.
Another thing that should be pointed out. During the peak Xmas holiday season this year, EV owners were waiting for 90 minutes for a charging station at places like Albury/Wodonga.
Having an BEV for 6 months now, I can confirm that travelling with the BEV is relaxing, taking breaks every 2-3 hours is perfectly fine. In summer I did 1050 km with 4 charging stops of together 1:30 hrs and enjoyed it.
A really excellent review, chaps. It addresses perfectly the range anxiety that has afflicted EV’s since their inception. Full marks also to Hyundai who, yet again, have produced an excellent, practical, comfortable product.
I don't think this proves much, one guy stops and does a series of exercises, all of which is delaying his time. The other arrives at a charge station, and all the 350kw chargers are in use so he has to jump on the 50kw for 8 minutes or so before the Tesla guy came back, but what if he hadn't come back so readily. This would have added to his time considerably! So my point being not just range anxiety but more of 'Will a charger be available' Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti EV.....I have one and my wife also! The problem, especially here in England is the infrastructure roll out. It is getting to the point that you need plan A, B & C for charging. When I first got my car public charging was not a major issue whereas now you arrive at a charger and cars on charge but with more waiting. I can only see it getting worse!
@@lawrencemcnabb4054 This is why I got a Tesla Model 3. The charging infrastructure is so much better. Last weekend we went to Hamburg by car. No issues with charging due to the Supercharger network. I didn’t even plan a route before getting into the car.
@@SirHackaL0t. Try doing London to John O Groats, watched a guy doing it in his Porsche EV and what he planned as a two day road trip ended up being four with added hotel breaks.
@@RushfanUK I’ve done Eastbourne to Edinburgh in a day with no problems as well as Eastbourne to Lands End, again without any issues. I’ve been to Hamburg in a day and managed Norway in two with a stop in Hamburg overnight as I was the only driver. What’s the issue?
Given the range of the Ioniq 5, it would be interesting to do the trip with half hour breaks to recharge, at Wodonga and Yass, roughly at one third distance intervals.
I just recently got an EV6 and I was wondering exactly how this type of scenario played out; not only was I pleasantly surprised by your result, I also learned a better method of charging the battery for these trips! Great video!
@@Mububban23 Oh I see! I actually was able to go out and pick up one at a dealer right away (I’m in the US). The IONIQ 5 is pretty much sold out everywhere, but the EV6 is easier to find. I got a new MY 22, but there are MY 23s already hitting lots here in the States.
Well, that was better than expected, but you seemed to have pretty good luck with empty charging stations. Recently, over Christmas in NSW there were many complaints from EV users having to wait 90 minutes plus to get onto chargers because of the high demand. As more people go down the EV route, this situation is only going to worsen unless there is a drastic increase in charging facilities. I'm trying to figure out how the grid is going to handle everyone charging their EV cars when the grid is struggling already.
@@oliveringram3056 Its only a fairly recent occurrence though with electricity prices shooting through the roof while petrol prices peaked then dropped again. Rapid charging in the UK is also going through a phase where the companies are trying to squeeze a profit as investment is not easy to come by.
Norway has the highest penetration of EV's ih the world at >80% of New Car Sales and I believe may now be 20-25% share of VIO (vehicles in operation) and their grid has not collapsed... You do realize the grid is constantly being upgraded don't you?? Additionally 90% of charging takes place at destination chargers like residential buildings and usually off peak when power traditionally is being shed
So 9 hours vs 9:40. And petrol car stopped way more the necessary (+2). Cost difference not massive especially considering additional expenses and original purchase price.
I drive this route 4 times a week for work. Great to see more charging stations being built along the Hume, but it's weird that the petrol driver takes breaks so frequently, and weird that he decides to go into a large town off the highway to fill up and not the petrol stations right on the highway instead. Electric vehicles will be important in the future, but it isn't as close to parity as this video suggests.
I also do the trip regularly. I have one "food/stretch stop" (also at Jugiong ~30 minutes), and one 5-10 minute "fuel/stretch" stop (variable, depending on the location of the best fuel price according to the "Petrol Spy" app). Although I could buy petrol at Jungiong, it is usually a bit more expensive. With thanks to the 110 km/h speed limit, my average driving time is usually just over 8 hours (although I don't drive into the city at either end, with destinations fairly close to the freeway), with a trip time of around 8 hours 45-50 minutes. I average 6 litres / 100 km, equating to around $100-$105 of fuel for the trip. It would have been good to know what the cost of charging the Ioniq was compared to the Tucson. If it averaged 20 kWh / 100 km, it would have been 176 kWh consumed. Assuming public charging rates of 50 cents / kWh (is that right?), my guesstimate of the cost is ~$88. (EDIT, I've just seen a subsequent comment that the Chasing Cars prices were $112 for the Tucson and $67 for the Ioniq).
An important info some might be after: Price spent with petrol/charge OP said: Tucson: $112 (91 octane) Ioniq 5: $67 (exclusively using Chargefox ultra-rapid) I am think I am sold with the EV and ready for a Sydney-Adelaide adventure.
So for 40minutes extra the EV saved $112 (petrol car) - $67 (EV) = $55. Better than award wage. Practically paying you for the time spent going for a wee.
@@--Nath-- ahh yes, but how long would it take to recoup the ~$24k purchase price difference, as per the prices at the beginning of the video? Also keeping in mind they did use the top of the line Tucson, thus the price disparity increases as you go down the range. This is not against EVs themselves, but more how they're priced against the equivalent ICE and the cost savings at the pump vs the purchase price difference. As much as I'd love to drive to Melbourne for only $67 of 'fuel' (I'd love to do it for only $112 for that matter), as an average, perhaps below average, financially, that $75k is a big hit, heck even the $45k for the cheaper EVs hurts as well.
@@arokh72 If you operated a full time taxi service between the cities your maths is right. However most people don't make a journey like this very often and the cost of electricity at home will be much less than at a rapid charger costs used here. The savings come from the daily recharging at lower rates. Those with solar systems may even charge at no cost.
@@arokh72 it is even worse than that on two fronts, firstly they have chosen the most expensive petrol variant. You can get a petrol version of the Tucson from $35k not the $52k of this one. So add $17k to the price difference. Or perhaps $10k to allow for the next version up from the base. Also the current fuel excise is around 45cents per litre or about 25% of the price of petrol. That will need to be added to the electricity price as there is no way governments are going to let those tens of billions go. And a further point, and something the elitist ev zealots seem to forget, not everyone has $70k to spend on a mid sized vehicle especially one from a mainstream manufacturer.
I feel there was an opportunity missed here to fill up at your first stop. You were stopping anyway, so why not fill up whilst you're there? That way, you miss a stop and cruise through quicker. Seems a little biased toward the ev as presumably he had his 'Comfort stop whilst charging. Also, try the same test whilst towing please. See what that does to the ranges.
A lot of people do forget that petrol cars need to be fueled at a petrol station all the year. An EV is mostly charged at home and only on trips like this charged at a rapid charger. All over the year I spent less time for charging my EV (driving one since 2013) than I did driving an ICE car. I still wonder why a lot of YT films are only comparing that one long trip...not all actions during a year of driving. And also I wonder why most YT films are only comparing price of buying. Not the TCO from both cars. since 2013 I've saved (In europe driving around) at least 55000 euro's ...SAVED means less payments during those years than when I should have driven an ICE including the buying price (and selling) and all other costs for energy roadtaxes , other taxes around cars ...In other words ...I've saved the full buying price of my new ioniq 5 AWD project 45 by driving electric for 8 years for mosst distances. Comparing is between new ICE cars and new ICE cars same size and comfort. Oh...and do not expect the ionic 5 to reach ever 350KW...It needs a 800volt charger for getting the max....and that's somewhere near 230KW charging.
Whilst it is a consideration, it’s hard to compare stats like yours in Europe to the reality of the Australian consumer faces. The Government is not supportive of the uptake of EV vehicles & infastructure. We are lagging behind similar countries in this aspect. The other challenge that this review starts to address is the geography of Australia. Population size (small) and distribution (sparse) means that distance travelled, if not urban, will be vast, possibly with not much supporting infrastructure other than the road itself. This video was made to the boys usual high level and showed we are on the way but possibly only at this stage if you are located in a major city and or along a main transport network. It would be interesting if the planned trip was turned somewhat west from Sydney. Would it still work out, (possibly), but if the destination was Adelaide, Lightning Ridge, Bourke or even Perth the comparison changes.
A lot of people also forget that charging at home is simply not an option for a great many people - especially those in high density living where you're likely to be street parking and often several streets away from your flat.
@@davelloyd-a lots of people also forgot most people living in high density urban areas don't even own a car. They mostly use public transportation. It doesn't economically make sense for them too.
Bloody hell. Was planning to make a video like this with my Model Y and you guys made an awesome sydney to Melbourne trip already. Thanks for doing this guys.
Interesting comparison! But you shouldn’t be disappointed about not reaching 350kW. That’s the capacity of the charger, but Huyndai (or anyone else for that matter) is not able to use all that power. It usually maxes out at 220 or so. Still incredibly fast compared to pretty much anything in the EV market.
Hey guys. Great comparison. It’s always a big question whether there are enough charging infrastructure available, not having enough chargers at charging stations and so on. And you guys showed it well. Would also be good to know the fuel vs charge cost as well
Christmas proved that our EV Infrastructure isn't up to par... EVERY Charging station we drove part on our 4hour drive had a line out the driveway for the chargers. :') All I constantly thought was "What a fun way to spend Christmas. " :')
Why did the Tuscon stop for lunch (the driver not the car) and then stop for fuel (the car not the driver)? Combine the two. Piss Poor Planning if you ask me. Pun not intended 7li/100km - garbage. At 110kmph in my Mazda 2 D. I get 4.2, ie 1050 km on a 44li tank (so no stops). I think the Ioniq5 did really well, but is at the mercy of available 350W charge points. The Tuscon should have been quicker and used more motion lotion than predicted.
Just did the same trip in my new Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Sydney , Melbourne, Sydney. Same charging stops too!! No range anxiety, super easy. Tom is right. The extra stops for electricity break up the drive and you do feel better for it. The electric infrastructure for that drive is fine. Yes, we will need more as EVs become more popular but there were no queues and no issues at all. Yes, the Gundagai charger wasn’t working when I did the trip around January 17th either.
@@chasingcars They're constantly broken here in the UK too. Slow chargers are reliable not the fast chargers Then you also have to have a billion apps and RFID cards to suit the different companies.
@@dirtygore The Tesla was made in China and is flawless. it's actually better than my badly built Holden Commodore I owned 10 years ago, and that was built in Australia. Times have moved on. The future is EVs because that's all the car manufacturers will be offering in 10 years. I got in now so I could enjoy the driving experience....even with the extra 50 minutes between Sydney and Melbourne. EVs, any EV, is just a nicer car to drive than a petrol car.
Awesome story guys. Well done. The natural style works great. The only problem with charging infrastructure will soon be the ratio of chargers to EVs. They are really starting to take off and certain times of year could get frustrating (long weekends for example)
Someone with an EV told me that in many places, you have to wait for a charger. So, if it take the other guy 10 minutes, you will be there for 20. Also, that 20K difference, in price, will buy a lot of petrol.
@@gwine9087 No they don't, for starters Infiniti doesn't even exist as a brand anymore. The only way you can undercut the Ioniq5 by 20k in those brands is to buy a class smaller without as many features and weak power-trains.
Sorry mate I do this trip very regular and I can tell you from Melbourne to Albury stop to fill up next stop Sydney in a much older car . To say 40 minutes difference is because how you fill when you drive I love driving with cruise on so the car with fuel who stopped three times is a bit excessive I can understand twice but seriously this test how many times the electric car stopped to top up to how many times the petrol car stopped to top up . One more thing how much it cost at each charge station to top up as how much fuel cost that’s a better comparison
Before covid struck, i used to drive annually to Germany to do some laps on the Nordschliefe. 2200km from my place, always took off at 4:00 AM so i can clear Bulgaria and Romania before the heavy traffic hit. On the highways the cruise control stayed at 135km/h for 90-95% of the time with AC set to 21°C because i used to do it early summer and the car averaging 9.0L/100km according to the trip computer. Topping up my old A6 three times for the entirety of the trip never really felt the need to stop and "relax" or "take a break" outside of the fuel stops because of how comfortable that car is over long distances. And i started well prepared with snacks and drinks next to me anyway, so i always arrived at the hotel at around 23:00 the same day; about 19 hours +/- 15 minutes for 2200km. This last year a friend of mine decided to do the same trip with his new Kia EV6 - 2 whole days it took him to get to Germany and many, many detours he had to take for the charging stations. The main problem with the battery EVs is that when you get to a charging station and all the charging columns are busy, you have to wait for them to get free if you don't have the charge to get to the next station. That can take a while. When all petrol columns are busy, it's usually for not more than 3-4 minutes per car. Now imagine a line of 20 EVs waiting to charge at the same station and none of them can't drive to the next one. The poor guy spent half a day just waiting for charging stations to be freed and not actually charging. That's the problem i have with EVs. Batteries aren't the answer and all manufacturers should focus on hydrogen fuel cells instead of busting their heads on batteries.
Glad to see somebody who gets it for EV travel. Long distance is best done with shorter hops and fast little chargers. Enough to get you to the next chargers with a tiny buffer. Think what I’ll be like when charging infrastructure is ubiquitous like petrol is today. The main issue we have, and you touched on it, is charger reliability. Non-superchargers are offline way too often. I’ve done the Sydney to Melbourne EV trip a few times now. I’ve never felt e refreshed after that trip then I have In an EV. My record was a tad over 9 hours there and that again on the return the next day.
Judging by Björn Nyland’s 1000km Challenge you could cut that difference to 20 minutes in a Tesla Model 3, but 40-60 mins off his Kia PHEV benchmark has been typical for the latest CCS cars over 1000km
Not really a fair comparison… why did the petrol vehicle need to stop for lunch. It’s only 900k’s the only stop he really needed was 1 for fuel and have a bit of lunch there. I drive from Brisbane to Sydney and I only stop once and that’s for fuel and a quick bit to eat . I would think that people driving from Sydney to Melbourne don’t want to stop ever couple of hours but if your happy to keep stopping then electric may be for you but if you just want to get to where you need to be then petrol will win
Great idea and a well executed video. It is just a matter of time before we have more charging infra in place and that would even out the practicality (read range anxiety) aspect. But I guess the key element here is the $20k-$25k starting price difference between what are essentially very similar cars (size, space, comfort, equipment etc.). It would take many more years to break even on the EV compared to the ICE equivalent. Battery life and scary replacement costs is going to be an issue when it comes to those “many years”.
The maintenance costs of an EV are much less compared to ICE cars, so that break even point comes faster than you think. It's already equivalent now in the average time of ownership, and will be cheaper when starting prices become the same. And people won't need to swap batteries, they last 500k miles. They just deteriorate to around 70% max. Before that time people already want a newer EV, just like ICE cars are traded in because people want something new after a certain amount of time.
Considering the fuel prices now (90 aud for a full tank in a mid size sedan and make that double for a mid size suv) and the maintenance cost is less for the EV i think that evens up a lot of things
@@David_Polak still, if you look at the fact that we have a 'working' petrol/diesel car park atm that can go from anything new to 20 years or more in age and it STILL drives (ignoring the worse emission norms on older cars) that does NOT speak in favor of the EV. A petrol car will keep driving if well maintained for decades, an EV..... not so much. It becomes much less attractive on the 2nd hand car market if its from a first/second owner with x years on the battery. Once it reaches that point, manufacturers make you pay tens of thousands of dollars to replace the battery: by that time you have to wonder if they would even service older EV's with batteries anymore. So sustainability-wise an EV actually has a lot lower longevity than a petrol/diesel car. And not everybody has the cash to buy a sparkly new car every 8 years. For lease owners that have no issues with swapping to a new car each 3 years EVs are great! For the average Joe, not really.
@@maar73n79 The "average Joe" does not buy a new car. With any new technology how it will perform on 10 to 20 years time really is unknown. Many ICE / conventional cars will have more than just standard servicing over 10 to 20 years so projecting costs over this time will be difficult. Some cars seem bulletproof others are more lemon like.
@@David_Polak Many people don't regularly buy new cars! Also, the EV short term maintenance costs may be cheaper, but they tend to be heavier and consumer more tyres. When the electronics fail, they will be more expensive to repair.
You can buy a lot of petrol with the cost difference of the 2 cars. Have they worked out what to do with old batteries, and what about the cost of replacing them.
Sure, there's a $20K difference in the cost of these vehicles. Worth noting that a Model 3 or Polestar 2 can be had for ~$8K more than the Tucson, though.
As for old batteries, static applications will be the major second life - battery storage for household solar etc. Degradation is thought to be minimal with new thermal management techniques and they are warranted for >70% retention over 8 years.
Love the fact that, at least between Sydney and Melbourne, Australia has 350kw rapid chargers. NZ is currently supported by 50kw charging, with the talk of 3 x 150kw charging stations to be built at some stage in the next 18 months. NZ also needs to build more than one charger at each location. With a significant increase in EV numbers in the past 12 months, I invisage delays getting on a charger as things stand at this point.
There are three 300 kW sites up and running, and looks like Chargenet, have more to come. I don't yet have an ev but I think we've been lucky they've invested in a fairly wide network, but I agree the 50 kW chargers only charging one vehicle is a bottleneck. They're also not always in the best locations, either... Feels like it's time for NZ to graduate from these single (often roadside) chargers to multi bay installs at key highway service centres etc.
As a comparison I Did the Sydney to Melbourne drive on the 2nd of Jan 2023 in my Skoda Kodiaq diesel. One stop for food, two stops to change drivers. 9 hrs door to door on one tank of diesel. The Skoda had a 60 litre tank and we do this drive at least twice a year. This is the quickest time I’ve done.
Great ‘experiment’ guys. Thank you. I agree with Tom that the myth that EVs aren’t much good on long trips is busted. Forty minutes difference is not significant. I’d love to know what it cost to ‘fuel’ each vehicle for the trip. Regardless, great comparison and very worthwhile. It’s influenced my thinking.
Great video Tom. I suppose it would be better if a bit of financial mathematics were also involved in your comparison. Things like petrol cost, mechanical parts depreciation, oil, etc etc. also it is worth mentioning SYD-MEL is probably the luxurious route for EVs. Other cities do not have much of ultra rapid charging facilities around like Sydney and Melbourne
Lol I don't get, how does mechanical parts depreciation, petrol cost, oil and etc relate to making a trip, or are you trying to do what I think you're trying to do
@W3TFART please don't push me, watch your words, that still does not answer the question, how do the mechanical part depreciation and oil change relate to making a single trip
@@dr_emmz if you extrapolate the findings of a single trip you can work out the overall savings . Obviously that’s way above your IQ level though isn’t it ?
The driver of the petrol car stopped unesecarily. That trip is normally one stop. So add another 15 min,, so an hours difference in reality. And how much did the trips cost?? Highway electricity is a LOT more expensive than charging at home,, that is ofcourse IF you have a driveway and charging infrastructure. Plus ofcourse maintenance costs. If nothing else battery life using rapid chargers is quite short. And $20k also buys a LOT of petrol. Mileage not coming up to what the sticker says?? Do they ever,, usually 10-20% worse.
"We're a bit short of the theoretical 350 kw charging rate." This is a mistake. The claim is that the Ioniq 5 pulls the 18 minute 10-80% on a 350 kw charger, but not that the charge rate is actually 350 kw. The peak rate is somewhere between 230 and 240 kw. The reason the 350 kw charger gets thrown around in the PR stuff is because in many markets there aren't many DC chargers with charge rates that fall between 150 and 350. It's usually 50, 150, and 350. So rather than tell consumers "The max rate is 230-something kw" and let them figure out what chargers to use, they just simply say, "oh yeah, hit a 350 kw charger if you want an 18 minute charge time" because a 350 kw is (almost) guaranteed to get you that charging time. But yeah, no: the claim isn't that the car actually charges at 350 kw.
Just completed a trip from Adelaide to Melbourne in our Ioniq 38Kw. Before we had a Subaru sedan and our trip would be as follows: Adelaide to Keith: have a break, refuel if necessary. Keith to Horsham: stay overnight, refuel if necessary. Horsham to Ballarat: coffee. Ballarat to Melbourne. In the EV the stops are just the same. This is a small car (about the size of a Corolla) that charges relatively slowly. For us there is no substantial difference in the trips.
Boom! Love it ! Anyone who wants to pooh oooh EVs as 'not Australia friendly' I will gently push them to this video. I've wanted and Ev for a while but it really answers some questions for me. Awesome video as always!
Nope. Pretty much any drive other than this ideal route and the EV is very problematic. I’ll keep my ICE car for my regional driving for the foreseeable thanks.
The test was purposefully kind on the EV. They used a Petrol version, rather than the diesel. He stopped 3 times, 2 of which were not necessary as it only needed one fuel stop. He stopped for a 25 minute lunch... If you are testing the difference between the cars, you should test what the cars can do. I bet if you removed the stops, the petrol car would have been getting on for 2 hours faster. If they had used the diesel version, it they probably wouldn't have even needed to stop for fuel. Yes, people stop for breaks but this test showed an EV going as fast as it could vs an ICE car that was purposefully being delayed in order to get the desired result of it being fairly close. I do 1000km fairly regularly and I would usually stop once to grab a drink to go, take a leak and pump some fuel. Less than 10 mins in total. The truth is. ICE works for every single person and every single application. EV does not. Hydrogen ICE will blow these electric boxes out of the water.
Absolutely appreciate you actually putting the miles in. One of the more prominent arguments _for_ EVs is "never cue at a gas station again", but apparently that only counts for commuters that can shuttle nonstop between home and work. Keeping an eye on the charging infrastructure, dealing with blocked or broken terminals seems to introduce a whole new complexity into the trip planning.
The problem is that Mel-Syd via the Hume is the most travelled route in Australia and consequently will have the best long-distance charging infrastructure. Try driving from Melbourne to Adelaide, or Melbourne to Echucha or anywhere long-distance in the country. You're either stuffed, or stuck with 10 - 15kw chargers and need to sit there for hours.
I'd also be curious how load and holidays effect this comparison. Say you're taking the family away in your family SUV over Christmas, does weight effect them both the same way and what about finding a free charger when the rest of Australia is on the road? There's a been few times during peak holiday season where there's been a queue for the toilets!
Melbourne to Adelaide has exactly the same ultra-rapid chargers all the way. In fact you can drive Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane-Cairns with chargers all the way. Melbourne Euchuca return is only just beyond the range of this car, and there is a 75kW charger in Echuca itself, as well as others along the way. You could do it comfortably with 5-10 minutes spent charging. There are gaps, but more of the country than you'd expect is already covered.
Great video as usual, guys. I’d like to see you drive both these cars from Brisbane to Cairns on Highway 1. I suspect a very different outcome as EV charging infrastructure is sparse and what there is, appears to not be fast charging.
Missed the time for the first fill up/charge. Charge would have been overnight without a time allocation. Fuel up before the trip, usually goes along with a "preferred" fuel brand or fuel station, therefore, not necessarily the closest. I used to go fill up the night before a long trip, so 10 minutes to the fuel station, 10 minutes to fill up and 10 minutes back. Now I get home in the evening, plug in and depart on 100% charge on my trip the next morning. The saving on the cost of the trip, charge vs fuel, also plays a part in the overall willingness to arrive a bit later than you would have with gasoline
Seeing what an EV can do between Sydney and Melbourne gives us an idea of what it might do on less busy roads in 5 to 10 years' time. Here in Western Australia there are many highways where recharging would have to be much more carefully planned although parts of our Southwest are well served.
I think WA has bigger problems than charging points at the moment, would be good just to get your roads put back in place after the floods! I really feel for the people that are totally cut off due to the missing roads. hope it gets fixed soon!
I’ve also done a big Melbourne trip over the Snowy Mountains with this route in my Model 3 LR. Charging was: Sydney, Goulburn, Gundagai, Jindabyne, Beechworth, Euroa, Ballarat, Melbourne, Dandenongs, Euroa, Wodonga, Gundagi, Goulburn, Sydney. Easy. No range anxiety, even up and over the mountains. Total cost of electricity was about $90 for 2,987 kms. Oh yeah, 2 adults, 2 kids, 3 large suitcases, 1 big soft bag, 5 backpacks. It all fit. Great car. (Jindabyne NRMA charger was free. Dandenong charger was house 240v overnight. Melbourne house 240v was also free. Sovereign Hill, Ballarat has complementary Tesla charger for free) Oh yes, I only used the Tesla Superchargers in Melbourne once. The rest were Chargefox. If you’re an NRMA member you get a 20% discount on the Chargefox network!
Tesla have a fabulous charging network - but I’m sure Chargefox, Evie and others can get there too. At least we are seeing a few ultra-rapid providers emerge.
With this video I learn some geography (btw some interesting names of the cities you were passing to) and realized that electric vehicles should be considered when taking long journeys (with one condition: to have fast charging points on the way).
I get the message.... an EV's isn't as bad as you might think. Impressive charging times. Seriously though is that how you plan a long drive in a petrol car? You stop for lunch... but don't bother to fill up... and then stop again... just for fuel and then stop again... just cause you can? Did the EV driver... decide he'd take a lunch break... and not bother to charge? Sure if you mess about.... driving a petrol car, it isn't much faster than a focused driver of an EV.... that seriously planned every single one of their stops.... and exactly how much charge to optimally put in.
Fabulous video Tom. Great to see the practicalities of living with an EV. For me I think they are really still a few years away and as soon as the purchase prices head south and the infrastructure improves I'm in. I can still buy a lot of fuel for the $20k price premium between those vehicles.
Exactly. I have a friend who, constantly tells me about what it costs her for a "fill up" for her Tesla 3, ignoring the fact that it cost her close to 80K.
Very proper review mate. Could you give us a clue on the consumption costs? How much did he spend on petrol and how much did you spend on charging? Also, could you include the amount of fuel burned? Another data point could be the carbon footprint. It'd be easy to find the gasoline footprint but for the EV you'd have to look at how the power company supplies its electricity. Hopefully consumer demand and gov't regulation will be there to incorporate solar when they build more charging stations.
Great experiment. Considering John's average speed in the Tucson was 6km/hr. faster than Tom's Ioniq 5, it seems the difference between the two cars is much closer than reported.
The more I read about how people manage charging of their EVs the more it reminds me of living in a delicate personal relationship. You know that if you make one wrong move it's going to be a bad day. Life is too short for all that.
Great for Australia. I wonder what would happen if you tried the same test on the Autobahn here in Germany. Especially in the colder months of winter. Worse conditions but a lot of chargers
Thinking this whole test was pretty much set up to sell the EV story. Was the EV driver having a meal and going for a run when he stopped like the ICE car driver was, or was he just stopping for a few minutes, topping off his battery and heading off again, even just detouring through Goulburn would cost you 15 minutes or so over staying on the Hume, even without charging, 15 minutes is longer than the complete refuelling time for the ICE vehicle for the trip. If you take into account something like my diesel i40 would do the trip, and halfway back again, on one tank, plus you've chosen the most well serviced road in Australia for EV charging. Take a trip from Sydney to Bathurst to Parkes, Forbes, Cowra and back to Sydney, or from Sydney out through Western NSW and Victoria to Melbourne and back up the cost to Sydney and see how things go, you'd be home 10 hrs bed the EV gets home, probably on the back of a flat bed tow truck.
I liked this test. I've been trying to explain top up charging to others who can't get past the idea of running your tank to near empty, then filling it up to the top. This just makes me mire excited about getting a Rivian when they're eventually available in Australia.
Thanks for the video, one comment I thought of during your wrap up was the fact that you can charge the EV while you are taking your comfort stop (or in the case of the Tesla owner, having a meal) which saves a small amount of time. You can't just leave the petrol car re-fueling as you walk off to the loo.
There is one main thing, about electric cars. Lets image you live somewhere in European, Slovenia maybe, not the most rich country. So you live, most likely, in appartments and you cant really have charger at home. So you need to search for public. And with 90% chance it is going to be 20-80kw charger. What will make your car charge for few hours. Which makes you super uncomfortable. Especially if you have cheeper EV, with no super rapid charger. That is main issue for now, that fuel is 2 minutes to refuel and fuels are same everywhere, but chargers - no. Which really makes EV not best option for huge chunk of people
Yeah, I think there is a clear need for urban charging hubs with a decent number of 150kW+ chargers. The current situation here in Australia is that urban chargers (in shopping malls etc) are 7-22kW, which is way too slow - whereas the great-quality interstate chargers are 350kW.
Hi. I can’t speak for Europe, but I live in an apartment in Sydney and have a garage with a 240v power point. My Model 3 LR is always plugged in and set to charge to 80%. It charges at about 2kW per hour at 10 amps. So, slow. That’s about 12-15kms per hour. But, plug in at 5pm after work, drive to work at 6am, gives 13 hours of charging. Roughly 150-160km overnight. Work’s only 60km round trip. Every morning when I leave for work it’s always charged to 80% and ready to go. However, I do agree that unless you charge at home, it would be far more inconvenient having to find charging stations once or twice a week. The big thing about EVs is charging at home is the best option and will apply to probably 80% of an urban population.
@@andrewmclean6555 you mean 80% will be able to charge at home? If so, dont think so. Usually appartments are in the areas, where you part outside and you have 10-35 floor building, so impossible to have your own garrage or somilar.
I live in London and Although not a poor country yet (the government is working on that) we have a network of street chargers being installed for charging at between 5 and 7kw. For most people the slower charge for a few hours works fine and keeps the battery in good condition.
@@johng5474 lol, UK one of a) most developed countries, b) there are little to no 25+ floors building full with appartments, around 2k people. So definitely you have good infrastructure and not so dense population. But try to come to Russia, for example and find that in 300x300m might live 10k people with around 1000 cars. Try ro park them all first, and try to charge... Electric cars only for rich and developed European or NA coutries.
Thanks for a realistic comparison. There are too many people rubbishing EVs without being in possession of the facts. In the UK, it is highly recommended to take a break every 90 minutes to 2 hours (we even have motorway signs to remind us!) which I usually do. On the basis of your 'race', we are already nearly at parity, and battery technology is still improving so we can expect more range and faster charging in the imminent future.
Great video. I wonder what the result would be if both divers had to have a 15 minute rest stop every 2 hours or so, because that's what they say is safe driving.
Hopefully you enjoyed this video that we had a bit of fun creating - racing an electric car and a petrol car from Sydney to Melbourne as quick as we could!
Haven’t watched it yet but I know it will be awesome! I would also love to an updated ev range test with all the new evs and the updated ones like the new Kona and model 3. Thanks for the great videos!
Can you guys inform me of the costs involved ....petrol and charge costs ...or you didn't think to work that out
@@noidea9279 Same for me please. What were the costs for the petrol and the electrons please? Informative video
@@noidea9279 Then subtract the savings from the extra cost to buy the EV and see how stupid the EV buyer is. You can even work out how many Sydney to Melbourne runs they have to make before the EV buyer breaks even. By then, he is due for a $30,000 battery pack - possibly his second. They never break even.
@@michaelherlihy2090 Coming from Ireland is no recommendation for working stuff out, but to argue a bigger cost differential there does not change the situation here in Aus, and I never said it applied universally, so I see the Irish in your argument. We are in a high price cycle here, and I estimated cautiously on top of that. Believe me, they are uneconomical here. There was a survey done that said a Tesla was dearer than a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the long term, so I am not alone in claiming there are no savings in most parts of the world. In Aus, there are zero incentives, except for in NSW, and they give about the equivalent of 480 euros - a pittance. Some states are considering road taxing them; I believe Victoria already does. If my comparisons are out, I'll blame it on my Irish great granny.
These guys drive SLOW 900 km is 540 miles, which is a 7.5 hour trip in the US. The EV would have had a LOT worse duration at higher speeds. This test was optimized for the EV's speed/power usage range. If they'd put on 20% more speed the EV would have failed even worse.
I liked how you explained the charging curve. Would be interesting to show a race between two of the same EV's, where one uses ABRP, and the other fills to 100%. Even some EV owners don't understand
In EV:s with lower charging power you also must weigh in the optimal speed. If you drive 100 km/h instead of 110 km/h, the less charging needed will often make your charging stops so much fewer and shorter that it is a win time wise.
In the Ioniq 5 though, I don't think you will gain from driving slower.
@@altoclef6688 Generally speaking it's better to speed in an EV, end up at a DC fast charger close to 0%, then charge to ~60% battery, or wherever the charging curve drops off significantly and get back on the road. This assumes most charging stations are close to highway exits and exist about every 175 km along your route. This is because charging rates at low states of charge far exceed driving speeds. I.e. at peak charging rates I get 1600 kilometers of range per hour of charge. Granted your calculus will change if you're limited to, say, 50 kW chargers.
@@altoclef6688 only if they are autonomous. Not sure though what type of road is or the speed limit.
@@Connor_Herman I am limited to 77 kW up to 55% SoC, then it drops to 55 kW. That's what I mean "in EV:s with lower charging power..". I also have very good range, which means it is possible I reach my destination without fast charging at all (slow charging over night) if I drive a tad slower.
Drove to another city 200 km away and back on highway, drove the baby sitter to her place 2 x 25 km, still had 60 km on the GOM. Went for 100 km/h instead of 110 km/h where 110 was allowed. Driving faster would have won me 30 minutes on driving and cost me at least 30 minutes at the charger.
@@Connor_Herman Actually10-75% usually is the ideally charge to drive ration you want
Also your 'drive at 110Km/h versus 100Km/h' theory doesn't really hold water since ...well.. physics
The extra 10Km/h algorithmicly increases the energy usage as wind resistance increases. All vehicles have an optimal speed to operate at and so your 10% faster speed does not linearly translate to the slower car ONLY going 10% further o the same SOC..... it will actually be much further and so.....whilst the hare goes faster but stops more often...the tortoise will pass..stop less and keep going since the stops for charge will e approx similar the math sides with the vehicle on the road for longer periods between charges
Please feel free to check the math.. test it and prove me wrong
So if your phone goes dead your stuck in the Ioniq, whereas the petrol car will charge your phone back up! 🤣🤣
This is a constructed experiment - in the real world fast charges are not available on a large scale and those who are, are usual prone to long queues of cars. And then there´s the weather - hardly a challenge for the Ionic 5 in +20 C but try it out in -5 C and you´ll get a much different result. Maybe this test is tailored for Australia and not most of the world.
Hey, curious to find out what the price difference was? Full tank Vs the 4x quick charges on the EV! Great review.
I'm also curious.
Tucson - $112
Ioniq 5 - $67
Was going to ask thr same, shame it wasn't in the video
@@chasingcars Not bad. Although if you weren’t in a rush to get there you could do it for free with the nrma 50kw chargers which I know are a heap slower but I mean they are free so not a bad compromise.
Great video 🙌🙌
I owned an EV for two years before I drove it 1,000+ km in a day. And when I did I went all in and did several of them in a row. In doing that I learned a benefit I didn't realize: lack of fatigue.
EVs are quieter and that affects your tiredness. Apparently there's research on this: extended loud noise makes you tired.
And you can tell in this video that the petrol car is louder. That wears on you on a 1,000+ km drive.
That charging time of 34 minutes is way less than I'd want to stop during a 9 hour road trip. Good work guys!
It kicks ass if you have dogs, small children, and women along.
Yeah EVs are really approaching that sweet spot range wise, think I read somewhere that at 250 miles you'll usually need to stop for the bathroom at least once anyway. And having that break promotes safer driving anyway.
just wait when there is only 10 charging outlets and 100 cars lined up in front of you. May be a 10 hour wait.
@@davids-c1f not had that happen yet, the charging stations let you know if they're busy in the apps. Plus there's already more charging locations than petrol stations in the UK anyway.
I'm sure it will happen at some point, if I travel on a very busy day. I have had to hop between a few nearby stations once, but ended up at a nice pub in the end and just had dinner there while it charged.
In the last few years petrol stations have also just not had petrol to sell some days or weeks, and as I can charge at home I'd at least avoid that concern.
@@ShasLaMontyr It just happen in this Christmas period.
One of the big things for me, is not just the charging times and trip time (although, it is something that I consider, as I often do long drives like this with only 1 or 2 comfort stops) But one thing about this trip, they didn't just jump in the car and go, they had to sit and plan, where the chargers were, how much charge they'd need at each charging station, etc. I'd love to see the same test done by someone without any EV experience, and then see how they go.
Exactly what i was thinking 800 odd kms would be 2 stops Max for me
@@adambrims13 Yep, I haven't done Sydney, but I've done Adelaide a few times, usually 2 stops, and I've done Melbourne to Canberra several times, and that's usually 1 stop, but has been done a couple times non stop.
Also, I think about when my dad and brother drove to Harvey Bay for my Uncles funeral, they drove, just driver swapping.
As I tell plenty of people, I'm not against EV's, I'd actually have one for running back and forth to work, but in terms of replacing my Commodore, they're just not there yet.
The technology is there now to allow the app to do it for you. Just like sat nav enter your destination and software can be used to tell you not just your route but will maximise your charge and direct you to the charging points. In fact Tesla already does it and has done from it's very early days.
@@stephenhodgson3506 seems like we are relying on technology too much.... When the reality is "chargers are under maintenance" or vehicles are in a queue.... And we continually use an app to find out this info ...it seems like a more complicated setup vs fill up and go ⛽
@@fireWireX4 and does not technology control the pumps and inform the suppliers when to visit a petrol station? The technology that allows you to pay with a debit or credit card.
Excellent test, and mirrors my experience with the Ioniq 5 on road trips. Plus I arrive much more relaxed.
Just one thing: the max charge rate is 225 kW, not 350 kW. It is stated a bit confusing: "10-80% in 18 minutes on a 350 kW charger", but that just means that the charger has to be an 800V charger. The car will never reach 350 kW.
Hyundai did this with Kona too. In advertisement they say - at 100 KW Charger, you can charge a Kona from 10 to 80 % in xxx minutes.... But they do not say nothing about that Kona can take only 73- 75 KW, and, of course, at a very defined circumstances (temperature, state of charge, etc). So many reviewers just say - Kona can be charged at 100 KW.
You went the wrong way outta Goulburn! That added at least 20 mins
How stressful is it to continually having to worry about how much charge you have, where you can get more charge, if you can get charge there that'll let you reach the next charging station, etc etc? It'd make me totaly jittery
Another fantastic video from chasing cars! Well done with the production of this one.
Thank you very much!
Basically one must always be racing time when driving an EV to arrive 40 minutes behind an ICE that enjoyed a leisurely road trip. I didn't catch on when the Tucson was near empty did we do like the EV and just put in a bare minimum of petrol (±10 liters) to get to destination. It was a race, right ?
An iffy comparison at best. A one and a half to two hours difference would be closer to reality, unless, like you say, it's a race.
I think if both cars had to stop every 2 hours for "comfort" but also safety, the time difference would had been negligible.
Yes, true.
This should have been mandatory to encourage safe, responsible driving. 10min break every 2 hours.
@@Gomisan you...dont need to stop every 2 hours to take a break from sitting down, certainly not with more and more driver aids nowadays
@@richardroberson9277 thank you. If you can’t sit and concentrate for more than 2 hours I’m not so sure I want to be driving next to you. If you know your comfort levels and you need it cool…but please don’t assume we are all like that. Personally…I find 400-500km my rest break…but in saying that my brother (truck driver) reg does heaps more than that in cars.
@@richardroberson9277 You could also pee into a bottle and not stop at all except for petrol.
Brilliant plan.
NOT.
Another question did the driver of the ev have a nice lunch and coffee? During the 7-10 min charging breaks ?
Nice work, although the most useful bit of information was the total charge time, since comfort breaks are driver dependent. I can then adjust for local charging circumstances.
The total time didn't mean much since it wasn't very clear what's included for each pair.
i thought that too, but from experience, the average speed is pretty normal. they didn't really take extra long breaks just to make ev look better with that average speed.
18:40 total charge time was 34 minutes.
I think this is more a testimony of how good the ioniq 5 is than a proof that EVs can keep up with ICE.
The ioniq has an amazing battery and immensely fast charging capabilities but if I did this with any other current ev (I'd.3, eC4, Mégane E-tech etc, with little more than 100kw chargers) and my current charging network that only goes up to 150kw in my country, and my diesel having lower consumption and bigger range, the difference would be much greater. Furthermore, we like to drive at 120km/h not 110.
Kudos for Hyundai!
I would have liked it if you guys also discussed costs of the trip, that would be a nice addition.
I love it when your channel produces innovative and informative content like this.
So glad to be of service!
@@chasingcars Ideas like these can really become your channel's USP.
You can also consider reviewing used cars in the manner of ReDriven. To my knowledge, it is currently the only Australian car channel reviewing used cars.
That was a great test. Loved the time you made in the electric car and it really surprised me. I drive on this route very often (1-3 times a month) and over time i have narrowed down my stop to only one at BP Wangaratta of 15-20 mins. I only need 1 nature break as I visit toilets before leaving and upon arriving. I also usually time my departure and arrivals on off peak hours so that drastically reduces overall trip times. Ohh and i drive an RX 350 with approx 700 kms of range on a tank. and my avg travel time for this trip is 8:30 hrs.
You have it down-pat!
@@chasingcars Also pretty unrealistic and arguably dangerous. Plenty of research backs stopping every 2 hours for a break.
@@jaredscott4829 I mean go cry to truck drivers and courier drivers then. :')
If a person doesn't know their limits they are the danger... not the over 2 hours at a time of driving...
I could maybe MAYBE agree with the 2 hours then break back in the days of no power steering, boaty cars that took work to keep on the road and in your lane but these days if someone needs a break every 2 hours, they're the problem.
@@SpuddyLlama lol what? Your g-string a little too tight today?
The point is no one knows their limits, its standard fatigue management backed by scientific evidence on the topic.
Truck drivers have regulated fatigue management schemes.
I don't give a shit what you could maybe agree with. Some twat being a hero on RUclips isn't a valid rebuttal to science.
@@SpuddyLlama Yes yes we get it, you're a hero who doesn't ever get tired, make mistakes or get annoyed by other idiots on the road. Congrats, save some adulation for the rest of us.
I've driven 18 hours at a stretch through unfamiliar terrain in winter conditions, stopping every 4 hours only as long as necessary to piss, wash the windows and fuel up.
Should I have? No. As a reasonably mature adult can I acknowledge in hindsight that it was a stupid idea? Yes. I felt like shit and I more clearly understand now that after 10-11 hours in the seat my reactions were impaired and IF I'd been in an emergency situation I likely would not have made the best of it.
Stretching my breaks out to 20 minutes every 3 hours would have cost me an extra hour, maybe 90 minutes at most and I'd have arrived fresher and been much less of a hazard to other drivers. Where are you driving that an extra half hour makes such a difference or is it just your ego that's making you put up such a fuss?
Really good comparison. I’m glad someone is making the point about petrol stops being longer than just 2 minutes when you factor everything else in.
Another advantage of EV is the full charge you leave home with and if you have a destination charger only need to arrive on a few percent where as the petrol car would need to be driven to a petrol station before the start of the trip adding additional time.
If an EV will do the entire trip on 1 charge, the ICE car will have range to spare. And there will most certainly be a gas station on the way if absolutely necessary. You don't even have to plan ahead. There will be one. Can't say the same about the high capacity charging stations.
So you can’t fill up the petrol car the day before the trip? Such a silly argument. Also to fill up at a petrol station literally only takes 2 minutes and another 2 minutes to pay.
We just returned from Newcastle to Melbourne and the ZB Commodore still had 1/4 of a tank remaining when we filled up at Albury.
Seems this test was made artificially competitive as the Tucson driver had to take a long lunch stop but the Ioniq driver just had to do the charging stops.
Of course all so sudden EV car don't need to this factor everything else that ice driver need to do.
How about also mentioning that sometimes there is a queue in petrol station. Of course don't mention it for EV.
How about mentioning you charge free since you have solar panels home. Without mentioning the need to buy a house with solar panels in the first place.
EV is make sense for certain people,but like my cousin who live in apartments that's not the case, justifying free charger in shopping centre,but neglect to mention 15 detour + charging time + the time to look for empty charges port.
Another thing that should be pointed out. During the peak Xmas holiday season this year, EV owners were waiting for 90 minutes for a charging station at places like Albury/Wodonga.
Great real world test video, well done guys.
Having an BEV for 6 months now, I can confirm that travelling with the BEV is relaxing, taking breaks every 2-3 hours is perfectly fine. In summer I did 1050 km with 4 charging stops of together 1:30 hrs and enjoyed it.
A really excellent review, chaps. It addresses perfectly the range anxiety that has afflicted EV’s since their inception. Full marks also to Hyundai who, yet again, have produced an excellent, practical, comfortable product.
I don't think this proves much, one guy stops and does a series of exercises, all of which is delaying his time. The other arrives at a charge station, and all the 350kw chargers are in use so he has to jump on the 50kw for 8 minutes or so before the Tesla guy came back, but what if he hadn't come back so readily. This would have added to his time considerably!
So my point being not just range anxiety but more of 'Will a charger be available'
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti EV.....I have one and my wife also! The problem, especially here in England is the infrastructure roll out. It is getting to the point that you need plan A, B & C for charging. When I first got my car public charging was not a major issue whereas now you arrive at a charger and cars on charge but with more waiting.
I can only see it getting worse!
You don’t get range anxiety in an EV.
You *do* get charger reliability anxiety, especially when it’s only 1 or 2 chargers in a location.
@@lawrencemcnabb4054 This is why I got a Tesla Model 3. The charging infrastructure is so much better.
Last weekend we went to Hamburg by car. No issues with charging due to the Supercharger network. I didn’t even plan a route before getting into the car.
@@SirHackaL0t. Try doing London to John O Groats, watched a guy doing it in his Porsche EV and what he planned as a two day road trip ended up being four with added hotel breaks.
@@RushfanUK I’ve done Eastbourne to Edinburgh in a day with no problems as well as Eastbourne to Lands End, again without any issues. I’ve been to Hamburg in a day and managed Norway in two with a stop in Hamburg overnight as I was the only driver.
What’s the issue?
A total of 45 minute break for a 9 hours long ride? Forget the cars I'M not that reliable!
Given the range of the Ioniq 5, it would be interesting to do the trip with half hour breaks to recharge, at Wodonga and Yass, roughly at one third distance intervals.
In UK on most motorway services is 2hr free parking limit...imagine you pop in to re charge and there are 3 or 4 cars ahead of you....
@@ciupak7932 in UK that's not 2 hours free, it's more usually 4 hours free.
No i have found it generally 2 hour as well which is to short if its late ant you need a nap and then freshen up
I just recently got an EV6 and I was wondering exactly how this type of scenario played out; not only was I pleasantly surprised by your result, I also learned a better method of charging the battery for these trips! Great video!
EV6 is gorgeous. How long was your wait time?
@@Mububban23 Wait time for charging?
@@egoheals order/delivery time. Here in Australia, EV wait times are commonly 6-12 months+ due to low supply but increasing demand
@@Mububban23 Oh I see! I actually was able to go out and pick up one at a dealer right away (I’m in the US). The IONIQ 5 is pretty much sold out everywhere, but the EV6 is easier to find. I got a new MY 22, but there are MY 23s already hitting lots here in the States.
Well, that was better than expected, but you seemed to have pretty good luck with empty charging stations. Recently, over Christmas in NSW there were many complaints from EV users having to wait 90 minutes plus to get onto chargers because of the high demand. As more people go down the EV route, this situation is only going to worsen unless there is a drastic increase in charging facilities. I'm trying to figure out how the grid is going to handle everyone charging their EV cars when the grid is struggling already.
Here in the UK, with charging stations charging twice as much for Kwh compared to home costs, it works out cheaper to use Petrol.
@@oliveringram3056 Its only a fairly recent occurrence though with electricity prices shooting through the roof while petrol prices peaked then dropped again. Rapid charging in the UK is also going through a phase where the companies are trying to squeeze a profit as investment is not easy to come by.
@@oliveringram3056 90%of EV charging happens at home or at destination chargers so your reference is false.
Norway has the highest penetration of EV's ih the world at >80% of New Car Sales and I believe may now be 20-25% share of VIO (vehicles in operation) and their grid has not collapsed...
You do realize the grid is constantly being upgraded don't you??
Additionally 90% of charging takes place at destination chargers like residential buildings and usually off peak when power traditionally is being shed
@@skip181sg There are more cars on the roads of Essex than the whole of Norway....probably.
So 9 hours vs 9:40.
And petrol car stopped way more the necessary (+2).
Cost difference not massive especially considering additional expenses and original purchase price.
I drive this route 4 times a week for work. Great to see more charging stations being built along the Hume, but it's weird that the petrol driver takes breaks so frequently, and weird that he decides to go into a large town off the highway to fill up and not the petrol stations right on the highway instead. Electric vehicles will be important in the future, but it isn't as close to parity as this video suggests.
Yeah my thoughts exactly
I also do the trip regularly. I have one "food/stretch stop" (also at Jugiong ~30 minutes), and one 5-10 minute "fuel/stretch" stop (variable, depending on the location of the best fuel price according to the "Petrol Spy" app). Although I could buy petrol at Jungiong, it is usually a bit more expensive.
With thanks to the 110 km/h speed limit, my average driving time is usually just over 8 hours (although I don't drive into the city at either end, with destinations fairly close to the freeway), with a trip time of around 8 hours 45-50 minutes. I average 6 litres / 100 km, equating to around $100-$105 of fuel for the trip.
It would have been good to know what the cost of charging the Ioniq was compared to the Tucson. If it averaged 20 kWh / 100 km, it would have been 176 kWh consumed. Assuming public charging rates of 50 cents / kWh (is that right?), my guesstimate of the cost is ~$88. (EDIT, I've just seen a subsequent comment that the Chasing Cars prices were $112 for the Tucson and $67 for the Ioniq).
Agree.
And also with petrol and passengers you can swap drivers and drive right through without breaks. Ev has to stop frequently even with a spare driver 🙄
And what were the fuel costs and the charging costs?
An important info some might be after: Price spent with petrol/charge
OP said:
Tucson: $112 (91 octane)
Ioniq 5: $67 (exclusively using Chargefox ultra-rapid)
I am think I am sold with the EV and ready for a Sydney-Adelaide adventure.
So for 40minutes extra the EV saved $112 (petrol car) - $67 (EV) = $55. Better than award wage. Practically paying you for the time spent going for a wee.
@@--Nath-- ahh yes, but how long would it take to recoup the ~$24k purchase price difference, as per the prices at the beginning of the video? Also keeping in mind they did use the top of the line Tucson, thus the price disparity increases as you go down the range. This is not against EVs themselves, but more how they're priced against the equivalent ICE and the cost savings at the pump vs the purchase price difference. As much as I'd love to drive to Melbourne for only $67 of 'fuel' (I'd love to do it for only $112 for that matter), as an average, perhaps below average, financially, that $75k is a big hit, heck even the $45k for the cheaper EVs hurts as well.
@@arokh72 If you operated a full time taxi service between the cities your maths is right. However most people don't make a journey like this very often and the cost of electricity at home will be much less than at a rapid charger costs used here. The savings come from the daily recharging at lower rates. Those with solar systems may even charge at no cost.
@@arokh72 it is even worse than that on two fronts, firstly they have chosen the most expensive petrol variant. You can get a petrol version of the Tucson from $35k not the $52k of this one. So add $17k to the price difference. Or perhaps $10k to allow for the next version up from the base. Also the current fuel excise is around 45cents per litre or about 25% of the price of petrol. That will need to be added to the electricity price as there is no way governments are going to let those tens of billions go. And a further point, and something the elitist ev zealots seem to forget, not everyone has $70k to spend on a mid sized vehicle especially one from a mainstream manufacturer.
I feel there was an opportunity missed here to fill up at your first stop. You were stopping anyway, so why not fill up whilst you're there? That way, you miss a stop and cruise through quicker. Seems a little biased toward the ev as presumably he had his 'Comfort stop whilst charging.
Also, try the same test whilst towing please. See what that does to the ranges.
A lot of people do forget that petrol cars need to be fueled at a petrol station all the year. An EV is mostly charged at home and only on trips like this charged at a rapid charger.
All over the year I spent less time for charging my EV (driving one since 2013) than I did driving an ICE car.
I still wonder why a lot of YT films are only comparing that one long trip...not all actions during a year of driving.
And also I wonder why most YT films are only comparing price of buying. Not the TCO from both cars.
since 2013 I've saved (In europe driving around) at least 55000 euro's ...SAVED means less payments during those years than when I should have driven an ICE including the buying price (and selling) and all other costs for energy roadtaxes , other taxes around cars ...In other words ...I've saved the full buying price of my new ioniq 5 AWD project 45 by driving electric for 8 years for mosst distances.
Comparing is between new ICE cars and new ICE cars same size and comfort.
Oh...and do not expect the ionic 5 to reach ever 350KW...It needs a 800volt charger for getting the max....and that's somewhere near 230KW charging.
Whilst it is a consideration, it’s hard to compare stats like yours in Europe to the reality of the Australian consumer faces. The Government is not supportive of the uptake of EV vehicles & infastructure. We are lagging behind similar countries in this aspect.
The other challenge that this review starts to address is the geography of Australia. Population size (small) and distribution (sparse) means that distance travelled, if not urban, will be vast, possibly with not much supporting infrastructure other than the road itself. This video was made to the boys usual high level and showed we are on the way but possibly only at this stage if you are located in a major city and or along a main transport network. It would be interesting if the planned trip was turned somewhat west from Sydney. Would it still work out, (possibly), but if the destination was Adelaide, Lightning Ridge, Bourke or even Perth the comparison changes.
A lot of people also forget that charging at home is simply not an option for a great many people - especially those in high density living where you're likely to be street parking and often several streets away from your flat.
And where is that electricity coming in coal/ natural gas/nuclear or what
@@davelloyd-a lots of people also forgot most people living in high density urban areas don't even own a car. They mostly use public transportation. It doesn't economically make sense for them too.
@@roadrunner4847Even of the electricity come from coal it's still better than petrol car engines though.
Bloody hell. Was planning to make a video like this with my Model Y and you guys made an awesome sydney to Melbourne trip already. Thanks for doing this guys.
Interesting comparison! But you shouldn’t be disappointed about not reaching 350kW. That’s the capacity of the charger, but Huyndai (or anyone else for that matter) is not able to use all that power. It usually maxes out at 220 or so. Still incredibly fast compared to pretty much anything in the EV market.
Later discovered that the limit is about 240kW for current e-GMP cars
@@chasingcars It doesn't help that they imply it will reach those speeds.
You were fortunate that you only had to wait at one charging station.
Hey guys. Great comparison. It’s always a big question whether there are enough charging infrastructure available, not having enough chargers at charging stations and so on. And you guys showed it well.
Would also be good to know the fuel vs charge cost as well
Christmas proved that our EV Infrastructure isn't up to par...
EVERY Charging station we drove part on our 4hour drive had a line out the driveway for the chargers. :') All I constantly thought was "What a fun way to spend Christmas.
" :')
Why did the Tuscon stop for lunch (the driver not the car) and then stop for fuel (the car not the driver)? Combine the two. Piss Poor Planning if you ask me. Pun not intended
7li/100km - garbage. At 110kmph in my Mazda 2 D. I get 4.2, ie 1050 km on a 44li tank (so no stops).
I think the Ioniq5 did really well, but is at the mercy of available 350W charge points. The Tuscon should have been quicker and used more motion lotion than predicted.
Just did the same trip in my new Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Sydney , Melbourne, Sydney. Same charging stops too!! No range anxiety, super easy. Tom is right. The extra stops for electricity break up the drive and you do feel better for it. The electric infrastructure for that drive is fine. Yes, we will need more as EVs become more popular but there were no queues and no issues at all. Yes, the Gundagai charger wasn’t working when I did the trip around January 17th either.
They’ve gotta get on top of any broken chargers really quickly - especially in busy times and during school holidays.
@@chasingcars
They're constantly broken here in the UK too.
Slow chargers are reliable not the fast chargers
Then you also have to have a billion apps and RFID cards to suit the different companies.
Same trip in a ICE which cost 50k less than a tesla.filled up once with a top up and made it 2 hours before your overpriced badly built tesla.
@@dirtygore The Tesla was made in China and is flawless. it's actually better than my badly built Holden Commodore I owned 10 years ago, and that was built in Australia. Times have moved on. The future is EVs because that's all the car manufacturers will be offering in 10 years. I got in now so I could enjoy the driving experience....even with the extra 50 minutes between Sydney and Melbourne. EVs, any EV, is just a nicer car to drive than a petrol car.
So, in order to make the EV look better, you take an unnecessary coffee break. Most of us would grab quick pit stop at the refueling stop.
Awesome story guys. Well done. The natural style works great.
The only problem with charging infrastructure will soon be the ratio of chargers to EVs. They are really starting to take off and certain times of year could get frustrating (long weekends for example)
Someone with an EV told me that in many places, you have to wait for a charger. So, if it take the other guy 10 minutes, you will be there for 20. Also, that 20K difference, in price, will buy a lot of petrol.
@@gwine9087 it also buys more car.
@@jaredscott4829 A BMW, Lexus, Infinity, or Mercedes all cost about 20K less.
@@gwine9087 No they don't, for starters Infiniti doesn't even exist as a brand anymore.
The only way you can undercut the Ioniq5 by 20k in those brands is to buy a class smaller without as many features and weak power-trains.
@@jaredscott4829 Well then, let's compare the two cars that they tested. Presumably, they are fairly equivalent. Ioniq 5 $75,900, against $51,400.
Sorry mate I do this trip very regular and I can tell you from Melbourne to Albury stop to fill up next stop Sydney in a much older car . To say 40 minutes difference is because how you fill when you drive I love driving with cruise on so the car with fuel who stopped three times is a bit excessive I can understand twice but seriously this test how many times the electric car stopped to top up to how many times the petrol car stopped to top up . One more thing how much it cost at each charge station to top up as how much fuel cost that’s a better comparison
Great test guys, what is the comparison in terms of fuel cost vs electric charge between the teo cars?
Before covid struck, i used to drive annually to Germany to do some laps on the Nordschliefe. 2200km from my place, always took off at 4:00 AM so i can clear Bulgaria and Romania before the heavy traffic hit. On the highways the cruise control stayed at 135km/h for 90-95% of the time with AC set to 21°C because i used to do it early summer and the car averaging 9.0L/100km according to the trip computer. Topping up my old A6 three times for the entirety of the trip never really felt the need to stop and "relax" or "take a break" outside of the fuel stops because of how comfortable that car is over long distances. And i started well prepared with snacks and drinks next to me anyway, so i always arrived at the hotel at around 23:00 the same day; about 19 hours +/- 15 minutes for 2200km.
This last year a friend of mine decided to do the same trip with his new Kia EV6 - 2 whole days it took him to get to Germany and many, many detours he had to take for the charging stations. The main problem with the battery EVs is that when you get to a charging station and all the charging columns are busy, you have to wait for them to get free if you don't have the charge to get to the next station. That can take a while. When all petrol columns are busy, it's usually for not more than 3-4 minutes per car. Now imagine a line of 20 EVs waiting to charge at the same station and none of them can't drive to the next one. The poor guy spent half a day just waiting for charging stations to be freed and not actually charging. That's the problem i have with EVs. Batteries aren't the answer and all manufacturers should focus on hydrogen fuel cells instead of busting their heads on batteries.
Thanks for the video. Unfortunately some info is wrong, the Ioniq 5 has a maximum charge rate of 220 kWh. Don’t confuse wIth the chargeur capacity.
It can go higher - up to 240kW or so. We saw 225kW max.
@@chasingcars But I think his point was that 240 does not equal 350.
The dashboard design of the EV though...... A 70's Lada had more love put into it.....
Glad to see somebody who gets it for EV travel. Long distance is best done with shorter hops and fast little chargers. Enough to get you to the next chargers with a tiny buffer.
Think what I’ll be like when charging infrastructure is ubiquitous like petrol is today. The main issue we have, and you touched on it, is charger reliability. Non-superchargers are offline way too often.
I’ve done the Sydney to Melbourne EV trip a few times now. I’ve never felt e refreshed after that trip then I have In an EV. My record was a tad over 9 hours there and that again on the return the next day.
This race didn’t seem a genuine race. It felt like they tried really hard for both cars to finish at the same time and still couldn’t do it.
Judging by Björn Nyland’s 1000km
Challenge you could cut that difference to 20 minutes in a Tesla Model 3, but 40-60 mins off his Kia PHEV benchmark has been typical for the latest CCS cars over 1000km
Not really a fair comparison… why did the petrol vehicle need to stop for lunch. It’s only 900k’s the only stop he really needed was 1 for fuel and have a bit of lunch there.
I drive from Brisbane to Sydney and I only stop once and that’s for fuel and a quick bit to eat . I would think that people driving from Sydney to Melbourne don’t want to stop ever couple of hours but if your happy to keep stopping then electric may be for you but if you just want to get to where you need to be then petrol will win
Exactly
Great idea and a well executed video. It is just a matter of time before we have more charging infra in place and that would even out the practicality (read range anxiety) aspect. But I guess the key element here is the $20k-$25k starting price difference between what are essentially very similar cars (size, space, comfort, equipment etc.). It would take many more years to break even on the EV compared to the ICE equivalent. Battery life and scary replacement costs is going to be an issue when it comes to those “many years”.
The maintenance costs of an EV are much less compared to ICE cars, so that break even point comes faster than you think. It's already equivalent now in the average time of ownership, and will be cheaper when starting prices become the same.
And people won't need to swap batteries, they last 500k miles. They just deteriorate to around 70% max. Before that time people already want a newer EV, just like ICE cars are traded in because people want something new after a certain amount of time.
Considering the fuel prices now (90 aud for a full tank in a mid size sedan and make that double for a mid size suv) and the maintenance cost is less for the EV i think that evens up a lot of things
@@David_Polak still, if you look at the fact that we have a 'working' petrol/diesel car park atm that can go from anything new to 20 years or more in age and it STILL drives (ignoring the worse emission norms on older cars) that does NOT speak in favor of the EV. A petrol car will keep driving if well maintained for decades, an EV..... not so much. It becomes much less attractive on the 2nd hand car market if its from a first/second owner with x years on the battery. Once it reaches that point, manufacturers make you pay tens of thousands of dollars to replace the battery: by that time you have to wonder if they would even service older EV's with batteries anymore. So sustainability-wise an EV actually has a lot lower longevity than a petrol/diesel car. And not everybody has the cash to buy a sparkly new car every 8 years. For lease owners that have no issues with swapping to a new car each 3 years EVs are great! For the average Joe, not really.
@@maar73n79 The "average Joe" does not buy a new car. With any new technology how it will perform on 10 to 20 years time really is unknown.
Many ICE / conventional cars will have more than just standard servicing over 10 to 20 years so projecting costs over this time will be difficult.
Some cars seem bulletproof others are more lemon like.
@@David_Polak Many people don't regularly buy new cars! Also, the EV short term maintenance costs may be cheaper, but they tend to be heavier and consumer more tyres. When the electronics fail, they will be more expensive to repair.
Because everyone works out exactly where to stop on every trip. Perhaps just turn up and see what happens.
Doing a few minutes of planning before a road trip, no matter what kind of car you're driving, isn't unusual in any way
Great video . How did much did it cost to charge the Ioniq over the trip ?
Great question. Fuel/charge costs were:
Tucson: $112 (91 octane)
Ioniq 5: $67 (exclusively using Chargefox ultra-rapid)
You can buy a lot of petrol with the cost difference of the 2 cars. Have they worked out what to do with old batteries, and what about the cost of replacing them.
Sure, there's a $20K difference in the cost of these vehicles. Worth noting that a Model 3 or Polestar 2 can be had for ~$8K more than the Tucson, though.
As for old batteries, static applications will be the major second life - battery storage for household solar etc. Degradation is thought to be minimal with new thermal management techniques and they are warranted for >70% retention over 8 years.
@@chasingcars with fuel now $2 litre. would have been closer to $140. ouch.
Love the fact that, at least between Sydney and Melbourne, Australia has 350kw rapid chargers. NZ is currently supported by 50kw charging, with the talk of 3 x 150kw charging stations to be built at some stage in the next 18 months.
NZ also needs to build more than one charger at each location. With a significant increase in EV numbers in the past 12 months, I invisage delays getting on a charger as things stand at this point.
There are three 300 kW sites up and running, and looks like Chargenet, have more to come. I don't yet have an ev but I think we've been lucky they've invested in a fairly wide network, but I agree the 50 kW chargers only charging one vehicle is a bottleneck. They're also not always in the best locations, either... Feels like it's time for NZ to graduate from these single (often roadside) chargers to multi bay installs at key highway service centres etc.
Great video. I'd love to see the cost breakdown of the trip (fuel vs electricity), as this would also be interesting.
Interesting... I would say vital. As per most things in life ... one of the most critical purchasing decision factors to assess is 'cost vs benefit'
It was mentioned in another comment:
Tucson - $112
Ioniq 5 - $67
As a comparison I Did the Sydney to Melbourne drive on the 2nd of Jan 2023 in my Skoda Kodiaq diesel.
One stop for food, two stops to change drivers.
9 hrs door to door on one tank of diesel. The Skoda had a 60 litre tank and we do this drive at least twice a year. This is the quickest time I’ve done.
Great ‘experiment’ guys. Thank you. I agree with Tom that the myth that EVs aren’t much good on long trips is busted. Forty minutes difference is not significant. I’d love to know what it cost to ‘fuel’ each vehicle for the trip. Regardless, great comparison and very worthwhile. It’s influenced my thinking.
I really like your videos and do enjoy watching them. You‘re a refreshingly relaxed well prepared crew. Nice shooting, well written script.
Thank you!
Great video Tom. I suppose it would be better if a bit of financial mathematics were also involved in your comparison. Things like petrol cost, mechanical parts depreciation, oil, etc etc. also it is worth mentioning SYD-MEL is probably the luxurious route for EVs. Other cities do not have much of ultra rapid charging facilities around like Sydney and Melbourne
Lol I don't get, how does mechanical parts depreciation, petrol cost, oil and etc relate to making a trip, or are you trying to do what I think you're trying to do
@@dr_emmztrying to get the actual cost savings you knob .
And like he pointed out not everywhere in Aus has these charge points every hundred Ks
@W3TFART please don't push me, watch your words, that still does not answer the question, how do the mechanical part depreciation and oil change relate to making a single trip
@@dr_emmz if you extrapolate the findings of a single trip you can work out the overall savings .
Obviously that’s way above your IQ level though isn’t it ?
@@dr_emmz Service cost/No. K's between services.
The driver of the petrol car stopped unesecarily. That trip is normally one stop. So add another 15 min,, so an hours difference in reality.
And how much did the trips cost?? Highway electricity is a LOT more expensive than charging at home,, that is ofcourse IF you have a driveway and charging infrastructure.
Plus ofcourse maintenance costs. If nothing else battery life using rapid chargers is quite short. And $20k also buys a LOT of petrol.
Mileage not coming up to what the sticker says?? Do they ever,, usually 10-20% worse.
Would be interested to know the costs for each vehicle too, fuel costs vs charging costs.
you also have to factor the cost of replacing the battery later... or the cost of freedom, which these things will take away
"We're a bit short of the theoretical 350 kw charging rate."
This is a mistake. The claim is that the Ioniq 5 pulls the 18 minute 10-80% on a 350 kw charger, but not that the charge rate is actually 350 kw.
The peak rate is somewhere between 230 and 240 kw. The reason the 350 kw charger gets thrown around in the PR stuff is because in many markets there aren't many DC chargers with charge rates that fall between 150 and 350. It's usually 50, 150, and 350. So rather than tell consumers "The max rate is 230-something kw" and let them figure out what chargers to use, they just simply say, "oh yeah, hit a 350 kw charger if you want an 18 minute charge time" because a 350 kw is (almost) guaranteed to get you that charging time.
But yeah, no: the claim isn't that the car actually charges at 350 kw.
Just got an Ioniq 5, I'll be testing the Canberra -> Sydney route today, hopefully one stop :-)
Just completed a trip from Adelaide to Melbourne in our Ioniq 38Kw. Before we had a Subaru sedan and our trip would be as follows: Adelaide to Keith: have a break, refuel if necessary. Keith to Horsham: stay overnight, refuel if necessary. Horsham to Ballarat: coffee. Ballarat to Melbourne. In the EV the stops are just the same. This is a small car (about the size of a Corolla) that charges relatively slowly. For us there is no substantial difference in the trips.
Boom! Love it ! Anyone who wants to pooh oooh EVs as 'not Australia friendly' I will gently push them to this video. I've wanted and Ev for a while but it really answers some questions for me.
Awesome video as always!
Thanks!
You want to buy an EV, go ahead. Just don’t expect me to subsidise your choices.
Nope. Pretty much any drive other than this ideal route and the EV is very problematic. I’ll keep my ICE car for my regional driving for the foreseeable thanks.
@bigyin2586 Can we stop subsidies on oil then please. Or is it only OK when your choice gets subsidies?
The test was purposefully kind on the EV. They used a Petrol version, rather than the diesel. He stopped 3 times, 2 of which were not necessary as it only needed one fuel stop. He stopped for a 25 minute lunch...
If you are testing the difference between the cars, you should test what the cars can do. I bet if you removed the stops, the petrol car would have been getting on for 2 hours faster. If they had used the diesel version, it they probably wouldn't have even needed to stop for fuel.
Yes, people stop for breaks but this test showed an EV going as fast as it could vs an ICE car that was purposefully being delayed in order to get the desired result of it being fairly close. I do 1000km fairly regularly and I would usually stop once to grab a drink to go, take a leak and pump some fuel. Less than 10 mins in total.
The truth is. ICE works for every single person and every single application. EV does not. Hydrogen ICE will blow these electric boxes out of the water.
Absolutely appreciate you actually putting the miles in. One of the more prominent arguments _for_ EVs is "never cue at a gas station again", but apparently that only counts for commuters that can shuttle nonstop between home and work.
Keeping an eye on the charging infrastructure, dealing with blocked or broken terminals seems to introduce a whole new complexity into the trip planning.
The problem is that Mel-Syd via the Hume is the most travelled route in Australia and consequently will have the best long-distance charging infrastructure. Try driving from Melbourne to Adelaide, or Melbourne to Echucha or anywhere long-distance in the country. You're either stuffed, or stuck with 10 - 15kw chargers and need to sit there for hours.
I'd also be curious how load and holidays effect this comparison. Say you're taking the family away in your family SUV over Christmas, does weight effect them both the same way and what about finding a free charger when the rest of Australia is on the road? There's a been few times during peak holiday season where there's been a queue for the toilets!
Or just fly.. like most people would rather than drive for 10+ hours.
Melbourne to Adelaide has exactly the same ultra-rapid chargers all the way. In fact you can drive Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane-Cairns with chargers all the way. Melbourne Euchuca return is only just beyond the range of this car, and there is a 75kW charger in Echuca itself, as well as others along the way. You could do it comfortably with 5-10 minutes spent charging. There are gaps, but more of the country than you'd expect is already covered.
Bad comparison. The Ev had to stop six times compared to the petrol just once. These times don't add up. Fake.
Great video - loved it and subscribed! Looking forward to watching more of your content from here in Liverpool, UK 💪
Choosing a route which has the best charging network is a way to sway the results. Why not redo this with a Sydney-Adelaide run? Or Sydney to Mildura?
We did this route because it’s the most popular in the country, plain and simple
@@chasingcars
It was also the second busiest and profitable air routes in the world.
So understandable why is the busiest car route.
Great video as usual, guys. I’d like to see you drive both these cars from Brisbane to Cairns on Highway 1. I suspect a very different outcome as EV charging infrastructure is sparse and what there is, appears to not be fast charging.
Missed the time for the first fill up/charge. Charge would have been overnight without a time allocation. Fuel up before the trip, usually goes along with a "preferred" fuel brand or fuel station, therefore, not necessarily the closest. I used to go fill up the night before a long trip, so 10 minutes to the fuel station, 10 minutes to fill up and 10 minutes back. Now I get home in the evening, plug in and depart on 100% charge on my trip the next morning. The saving on the cost of the trip, charge vs fuel, also plays a part in the overall willingness to arrive a bit later than you would have with gasoline
Seeing what an EV can do between Sydney and Melbourne gives us an idea of what it might do on less busy roads in 5 to 10 years' time. Here in Western Australia there are many highways where recharging would have to be much more carefully planned although parts of our Southwest are well served.
There are many places that only have slow charges, right now, so planning is critical.
I think WA has bigger problems than charging points at the moment, would be good just to get your roads put back in place after the floods! I really feel for the people that are totally cut off due to the missing roads. hope it gets fixed soon!
Most people I know would do this trip with only one break. So, the dude taking 3 breaks when only 1 was needed, that definitely adds time to the trip.
Thanks for the video!
How is the ride comfort and the drive experience both of the compared?
The fact that we’ve reached a point where this race is even feasible is amazing and great.
Yeah now try it where people are complaining about not enough range like out west not a major highway where all the greenies that have no clue live .
I am curious to know what was the difference in the running cost between both cars traveling from Sydney to Melbourne? Petrol vs electricity…
Excellent question. If only this aspect was explored in the video.
I’ve also done a big Melbourne trip over the Snowy Mountains with this route in my Model 3 LR. Charging was: Sydney, Goulburn, Gundagai, Jindabyne, Beechworth, Euroa, Ballarat, Melbourne, Dandenongs, Euroa, Wodonga, Gundagi, Goulburn, Sydney. Easy. No range anxiety, even up and over the mountains. Total cost of electricity was about $90 for 2,987 kms. Oh yeah, 2 adults, 2 kids, 3 large suitcases, 1 big soft bag, 5 backpacks. It all fit. Great car.
(Jindabyne NRMA charger was free. Dandenong charger was house 240v overnight. Melbourne house 240v was also free. Sovereign Hill, Ballarat has complementary Tesla charger for free)
Oh yes, I only used the Tesla Superchargers in Melbourne once. The rest were Chargefox. If you’re an NRMA member you get a 20% discount on the Chargefox network!
Tesla have a fabulous charging network - but I’m sure Chargefox, Evie and others can get there too. At least we are seeing a few ultra-rapid providers emerge.
With this video I learn some geography (btw some interesting names of the cities you were passing to) and realized that electric vehicles should be considered when taking long journeys (with one condition: to have fast charging points on the way).
Glad it was informative!
Generally if an Australian town/city has a funky name like Wagga Wagga, Gundagai or Woolloomooloo (for example) it's because it's an Aboriginal word
I get the message.... an EV's isn't as bad as you might think. Impressive charging times. Seriously though is that how you plan a long drive in a petrol car? You stop for lunch... but don't bother to fill up... and then stop again... just for fuel and then stop again... just cause you can? Did the EV driver... decide he'd take a lunch break... and not bother to charge? Sure if you mess about.... driving a petrol car, it isn't much faster than a focused driver of an EV.... that seriously planned every single one of their stops.... and exactly how much charge to optimally put in.
Fabulous video Tom. Great to see the practicalities of living with an EV. For me I think they are really still a few years away and as soon as the purchase prices head south and the infrastructure improves I'm in. I can still buy a lot of fuel for the $20k price premium between those vehicles.
Exactly. I have a friend who, constantly tells me about what it costs her for a "fill up" for her Tesla 3, ignoring the fact that it cost her close to 80K.
How much did it cost to charge the ev?
Very proper review mate. Could you give us a clue on the consumption costs? How much did he spend on petrol and how much did you spend on charging? Also, could you include the amount of fuel burned? Another data point could be the carbon footprint. It'd be easy to find the gasoline footprint but for the EV you'd have to look at how the power company supplies its electricity. Hopefully consumer demand and gov't regulation will be there to incorporate solar when they build more charging stations.
All electricity used in this video was actually 100% renewable
Even if using just the typical grid (which in Oz is a lot of coal.. but getting displaced with renewables) it is still less polluting per kilometre.
Great experiment. Considering John's average speed in the Tucson was 6km/hr. faster than Tom's Ioniq 5, it seems the difference between the two cars is much closer than reported.
If he was going quicker he would have used more charge so need longer or more charging stops.
The more I read about how people manage charging of their EVs the more it reminds me of living in a delicate personal relationship. You know that if you make one wrong move it's going to be a bad day. Life is too short for all that.
Now imagine having to wait in line with 2 other evs in front of you. One of them wants to charge his ev to 100%.
What was the total refuelling cost for both cars?
Tucson: $112 (91 octane)
Ioniq 5: $67 (exclusively using Chargefox ultra-rapid)
a bloody good question, sir!
When charging stations are full and line up starts, you can take a nice 3hr break.
Great for Australia. I wonder what would happen if you tried the same test on the Autobahn here in Germany. Especially in the colder months of winter. Worse conditions but a lot of chargers
Thinking this whole test was pretty much set up to sell the EV story. Was the EV driver having a meal and going for a run when he stopped like the ICE car driver was, or was he just stopping for a few minutes, topping off his battery and heading off again, even just detouring through Goulburn would cost you 15 minutes or so over staying on the Hume, even without charging, 15 minutes is longer than the complete refuelling time for the ICE vehicle for the trip. If you take into account something like my diesel i40 would do the trip, and halfway back again, on one tank, plus you've chosen the most well serviced road in Australia for EV charging. Take a trip from Sydney to Bathurst to Parkes, Forbes, Cowra and back to Sydney, or from Sydney out through Western NSW and Victoria to Melbourne and back up the cost to Sydney and see how things go, you'd be home 10 hrs bed the EV gets home, probably on the back of a flat bed tow truck.
Always have been curious about this result, top work for making a fun and realistic test!
Happy to help!
great video. thanks guys.
I liked this test. I've been trying to explain top up charging to others who can't get past the idea of running your tank to near empty, then filling it up to the top.
This just makes me mire excited about getting a Rivian when they're eventually available in Australia.
“Quick 10 minute charging stop”
Sounds like a bit of an oxymoron to me lol
It would be interesting to compare the two cars at night time, as to how quick the batteries diminish with headlights on.
Thanks for the video, one comment I thought of during your wrap up was the fact that you can charge the EV while you are taking your comfort stop (or in the case of the Tesla owner, having a meal) which saves a small amount of time. You can't just leave the petrol car re-fueling as you walk off to the loo.
There is one main thing, about electric cars. Lets image you live somewhere in European, Slovenia maybe, not the most rich country.
So you live, most likely, in appartments and you cant really have charger at home. So you need to search for public. And with 90% chance it is going to be 20-80kw charger. What will make your car charge for few hours. Which makes you super uncomfortable. Especially if you have cheeper EV, with no super rapid charger. That is main issue for now, that fuel is 2 minutes to refuel and fuels are same everywhere, but chargers - no.
Which really makes EV not best option for huge chunk of people
Yeah, I think there is a clear need for urban charging hubs with a decent number of 150kW+ chargers. The current situation here in Australia is that urban chargers (in shopping malls etc) are 7-22kW, which is way too slow - whereas the great-quality interstate chargers are 350kW.
Hi. I can’t speak for Europe, but I live in an apartment in Sydney and have a garage with a 240v power point. My Model 3 LR is always plugged in and set to charge to 80%. It charges at about 2kW per hour at 10 amps. So, slow. That’s about 12-15kms per hour. But, plug in at 5pm after work, drive to work at 6am, gives 13 hours of charging. Roughly 150-160km overnight. Work’s only 60km round trip. Every morning when I leave for work it’s always charged to 80% and ready to go.
However, I do agree that unless you charge at home, it would be far more inconvenient having to find charging stations once or twice a week.
The big thing about EVs is charging at home is the best option and will apply to probably 80% of an urban population.
@@andrewmclean6555 you mean 80% will be able to charge at home? If so, dont think so. Usually appartments are in the areas, where you part outside and you have 10-35 floor building, so impossible to have your own garrage or somilar.
I live in London and Although not a poor country yet (the government is working on that) we have a network of street chargers being installed for charging at between 5 and 7kw. For most people the slower charge for a few hours works fine and keeps the battery in good condition.
@@johng5474 lol, UK one of a) most developed countries, b) there are little to no 25+ floors building full with appartments, around 2k people.
So definitely you have good infrastructure and not so dense population. But try to come to Russia, for example and find that in 300x300m might live 10k people with around 1000 cars. Try ro park them all first, and try to charge...
Electric cars only for rich and developed European or NA coutries.
Thanks for a realistic comparison. There are too many people rubbishing EVs without being in possession of the facts. In the UK, it is highly recommended to take a break every 90 minutes to 2 hours (we even have motorway signs to remind us!) which I usually do. On the basis of your 'race', we are already nearly at parity, and battery technology is still improving so we can expect more range and faster charging in the imminent future.
Great video. I wonder what the result would be if both divers had to have a 15 minute rest stop every 2 hours or so, because that's what they say is safe driving.