ELECTRIC vs PETROL CAR - which is REALLY cheaper?? | What Car?
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- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2022
- Is an electric car REALLY cheaper to run than a petrol car? Doug Revolta and Will Nightingale do two road trips to reveal a SURPRISING outcome.
#WhatCar #PetrolvsEV #EVTest
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Would you still buy an electric car? 🤔👇
no, I am still hoping synthetic fuels, come to the rescue.
Nope...
Yes if I was a driver
Absolutely. Partly because the ban on petrol and diesel is coming, partly because of the environmental benefits. Yes, I know, they're far from perfect. But they will be better for the planet.
Yes yes yes
I think a more holistic - ‘total cost of ownership’ approach is required.
I don't think that entirely true. The majority of people that can afford an EV are not hurting for money. Most EV's are not cheap to get into (at least in the US). If you're buying new, you probably have plenty to spend. I can't count the number of Tesla's on the roads in my neck of the woods, but it's rare to see cheaper one like the Leaf or Bolt. These are the same income brackets that buy BMW, Audi, Mercedes..etc. Cars that either famously unreliable and/or expensive to repair. I cannot count the number of customers I see on a monthly basis that pay obscene prices to maintain and repair cars from these brands (all considered luxury stateside), and they act like it's no big deal. If you're getting into an EV right now chances are cost of ownership is not your main concern. You're either attempting to be environmentally savvy or you WANT something new (not need) and you can afford to spend 5 or 6 figures to make that happen. I say all of this as a 2022 Bolt EV owner.
@@divid3dbyZero You may be right. Some people have sufficient resources to satisfy their whims without any thought. Some people do not the funds to meet their essential needs. Others are resource constrained and desire to make rational choices.
Within the framework of rational choices, at least in Europe, comparative energy/fuel costs is not the major component of vehicle ownership but depreciation is. So I refute your allegation of untruth.
... and the cost would include a full ecological footprint analysis.
If people actually realised how much their cars cost, I think there would be less car ownership!
in short: it's a much higher starting investment with much lower running costs. it's great if you can afford to shell out the money to buy the car, but most people can't. w a petrol car, it's more money in the long run but more spread out. what needs to happen is EVs need to become significantly cheaper, so that the avg. person can have one.
Would have loved to see the price differences in service costs over the years to be included in this comparison.
Think about your comment… if you want services costs over the years, then you probably want fuel costs as well over the years too, at that point that’s a different video about the long term costs of ev vs ice. So tell me why would they include long term service costs in a video about a single motorway journey? What you’re asking to be included should not be in this video at all, maybe in a separate video including all costs over the long term.
Battery replacement would have to be included too.
@@rayquirk4947 no it wouldn’t. Apart from manufacturing faults there will be no reason to change them, they will last the life of the car now.
@@luckyrobp says who? More like battery life dictates the life of the car
@@luckyrobp there are 100s of thousands of 12+ year old cars on the road that are cheap to buy (under 6k), cheap to run (40+mpg), cheap to insure, are reliable, and if serviced will last another 8 years. The cost to the environment is only the fuel burned, the oil used, and a couple of sets of tyres, so is perfect if you care about how your kids will survive in the future.
You could also run your car for 3 years, resell it, and be less than £5k out of pocket.
Changed to a ev a year ago and have a home charger (10p per unit).
Saved approx £2000 on running costs in the 12 month.
And the cost of your EV?
You could have bought 2 oil cars with at money, or the purchasing difference could maintain the oil car to run to the ground.
@@BaeLasso Sorry but EV's are now at same price as ICE cars with the MG4 selling for about £25k and the sports model at £35k with better performance than a much more expensive VW Golf Gti at £45k
@@stevehayward1854 In Australia, EVs are much more expensive than equivalent oil cars.... about 1.5 to 2 times more expensive...
@@BaeLasso I suspect thats either purchasers willing to pay more or your governments fault with import duties.
I know they are very much in favour of coal and anti renewables, despite that, renewables are taking over, including grid batteries. 3 years ago EV were dearer in the UK but it seems the prices are coming down reasonably fast
83.68KWh charging at home is a whisker under £8 for me so for day to day use its far cheaper. And on long journeys its not much different. I don't understand why car focused media channels always highlight the edge case where EV's are more expensive. I am guessing its click bait to get views. I must say its very miss-leading shame on you.
Exactly. I'm getting my first EV next month. And week to week I'll go from £50 min to under £10
@@shogunpxpJust buy petrol. What is wrong with you
@@mastershadow1637maybe he cares about the environment although I suspect he isn’t vegan
And if you live in a flat/apartment, terraced house, or indeed ANY home where you cannot avail of home charging - you are well and truly screwed. And considering it is usually the less well off who live in these types of homes, then once again - they are going to be the ones penalised most heavily when the government finally forces everyone out of ICE powered vehicles, and in to these 'cheaper' EV's. What a compassionate, forward thinking government we have here.
Your absolutely right Gary. I have also said this on the petrol ped youtube channel. He has just published a new video which is worth a look. This backs up the argument that, unless you have a home charger (which only half the country can have) its a big issue.
It needs more motor journalists to keep highlighting the issue before we just plod on to a disaster.
That compassionate lunacy of the corporate European agenda- would reassure you that cycling is good for your health and you sell your carbon credits.
The cars have a range of 200-300 miles?! That's a once a week charge for most use cases. That's plugging it in when you do your weekly shop.
This test is the worst case scenario for EVs. Continuous high speeds, more expensive fast chargers.
Supermarkets already treat petrol as basically a loss leader, there's even more reason to expect that they would see ev charging in the same light.
And that's before we get to other potential solutions for charging, which will crop up when everyone has an ev.
Edit to add.
From a social pov I'm more concerned about the less well off not being able to afford EVs and the savings that come with them, and being at the blunt end of govt attempts to force IC card off the road. Fuel prices aren't the problem, it's the upfront cost.
@@paulkeenan2691 No, it was Boris who passed the law to ban ICE cars from 2030, not the EU. Indeed there is no EU mandate as it was left to individual countries to determine their policies.
These cars have an advantage when charged at home and used only for city driving. The car future is absolutely dreadful
Interesting test, and yes, using public fast chargers is more expensive. Taking the i4 84Kwh requirement for full charge on my home tariff comes to £6.30. On the basis that I have used public chargers twice in the last year, it still makes sense for me.
One needs to look at the proportion of the population without the ability to charge at home - usually they have public transport available, whereas for myself in Somerset with the sparkling good public transport (No bus, train 14 miles away etc) home charging with an EV makes perfect sense.
A worthwhile test though and realistic too for some people. Keep up the good channel!
Not even that point is valid. If you're using public chargers all the time you're going to have charging subscription with lower prices. I think you're giving the morons that made this video way too much credit.
@@MattCasters Exactly. Using the Ionity Passport plan would mean the i4 would cost £29.29 charge vs £52.09 for the petrol car, completely destroying the narrative of this video.
Something stinks, and I'm not just talking about the poor fashion choices of the drivers....
I'll stick to dinosaur juice
@@enfield7123 Because you ARE a dinosaur...
So you saying you can take 84 kw off thr grid for £6.30 ? .. what tariff are you on ? . We have to pay 38p / kw ( SHELL ) , so that would be at least 32 quid , whats going on ?
I drive an EV, and thank goodness my job has massively changed from doing lots of motorway trips to trips of 30-50miles round trio, otherwise I think driving an EV for a living would be very stressful and expensive.
Last weekend we did your first long trip in our new electric BYD Atto3. We were selling our old 2013 VW GTI. Dropped of the GTI to the buyer in Tamworth NSW - 370km and $16 of petrol. We then took the the BYD on an additional 790km trip through rural northern NSW and southern Queensland. We were able to find some free chargers, plus charging at home at the start and finish. It cost $9.47 on the road plus $30-ish charging at home.
Interesting! Do you need to install a charger at home?
@@dianao.4757 Nope, just the regular 220v charger
In November we took a 1068km trip to Tasmania and back. Total charging costs were $468.20. Estimated it would have cost about $820 if we had taken our previous 2013 Golf GTI or $1200 if we had taken our two motorcycles (Niken GT & Vulcan S).
It's not just the costs it's the time. I pulled off at three different services the other week on my journey for a holiday. Two were full with people only just starting and the third just errored when starting a charge. So by the time I got to my destination, I had lost 20 minutes pulling in and out of services and ended up spending two unplanned hours in a Morrisons carpark. These are the unaccounted costs. That and a week away is now a week spent thinking about the car and charge rather than enjoying my holiday.
Exactly this. Electric cars have still got a long way to go before we can start to treat them like traditional gas cars, where we don't even need to think about ranges anymore due to the number of chargers available. Sadly I don't think this will happen anytime soon, even after the 2030 ban on new gas cars has come into effect.
Thats what you get if you buy a poor standard of EV. I have Tesla M3 and it will do 280 miles at motorway speeds, the Tesla chargers are always up and running, they always have spaces, they are also fast, I can put on 200 miles of range in 15-20 minutes.
This is why you buy a Tesla, the charging network for non Tesla is at best pathetic making the electric experience a disappointment
@@stevehayward1854yer pay 50 grand for a tesla and two years later sell it for 15 grand 🤣🤣🤣
Agree with everything you say but also that this is mostly true of the non tesla chargers... Tesla have already got this to perfection and Ionity et al need to do some serious catching up! It will come but I get for non Tesla owners its not always a great experience.... I bought Tesla though so no isses to date but as Tesla open up to non tesla cars it will be interesting to see if it results in a poor experience for Tesla owners.
I drive a Hyundai Kona Electric - since March. In the summer, by driving sensibly, I got better than the the full 300m range 5miles per kWh (320miles range) vs 4.7kwh for 300miles. This included a weekly average of 100miles plus at 60 - 70 mph on motorways and about the same on country roads. Misunderstanding when to use regenerative braking is often the problem that makes EVs less efficient. Getting energy from breaking when you need to slow down is great. However slowing the car down when you are coasting along is inefficient. There is a loss of energy putting the kinetic energy of momentum into the batteries electrochemistry and then getting it out again. So on the motorway, when there is a lot of coasting opportunity, it is far better to turn regen off. Easy in the Kona where it is controlled by paddles on the steering wheel. Also get some solar panels on your house roof if you can and travelling around is virtually free. I didn't pay a penny to travel between Sept 3rd and October 25th. (August was touring in France - much cheaper than in the video too). Before that I didn't have the Solar panels for charging and it was still much cheaper than my hybrid was. There will be more charging costs through winter - less sun, lower battery capacity at cold temperatures and less sunshine on the roof. But still it will be a fraction of the cost. Electric cars require a different way of thinking about it all, and there is hassle in learning about it. But my running costs have plummeted now.
My monthly expense for BMW 116D was £64 ish.
It's now £5.22 for Hyundai Kona Electric. They really convinced me to go back to fossil fuels.
give it 18months your battery will be soing half that 🤣🤣🤣
I have an EV. Understanding how to maximise efficiency is good, but I find that very unenjoyable. I want to enjoy driving the car and enjoying it does not mean coasting whenever possible, accelerating super gently, turning off aircon whenever possible 🤷🏻♂️
@@bbcdentist I have a KIA EV6. I don't bother with efficiency at all. Sport mode all the time and ragging it a fair bit and still get 3.5m/kWh
I think you have missed the point of the video, it was to highlight what its
like if not charging from home and using expensive motorway services.
I pay $12.00 to fill up my Model Y at home in an apartment out my kitchen window.
In the past year I’ve used public charging stations only 5%
95% of my charging is done at home.
Much cheaper to drive an EV and much cheaper to maintain them.
I’ve been driving 100% Electric for 10.5 years and have not replaced a battery yet.
My Enyaq has similar EXPECTED range to the i4 and that got me from Huddersfield to a charger in Portsmouth in 1 run. Doing full 70mph is the killer. Drop to 65 or 60 and the range increases massively (this applies to ICE cars as well).
Amazing how they never consider 95% of charging being done at home as sub 10p/kwh.
Also IONITY...... Has been the most expensive charger since they were first installed many years ago.
Bear in mind that most petrol stations charge around £1.35 a litre of fuel on average. I have a diesel car and my diesel car at 60mpg which is my overall average just about breaks even per mile with an electric car, and an electric car costs so much more and i would never get 600+ miles on a charge in an electric car. The tech isn’t there yet in my opinion to make me switch, however I have driven a few electric cars and can see the appeal.
@@jayveevee Not sure how you get the break even point of fuel cost. I pay 7.5p/kWh to charge my car and works out at 1.9pence per mile. I typically use a public charger for the return journey home maybe once every 6 months. Servicing costs are also far cheaper. Brake pads typically last 50-100k miles depending on car and driving style. No oil changes. No DPF to worry about, and over 1000 fewer parts in general.
I'm still recommend some people don't switch when I know it's not worth it in their situation. But if you look and the price of EVs now, they are getting very close to equivalent ICE cars.
@@Dr-EV can you name one single ev that isn’t £10k dearer than it’s ice equivalent?
@@TheComputec not at the moment, but this is currently the reason why certain people buy EV's, because they intend on doing the milage that makes running cost much cheaper, and because they are far nicer to drive. But don't forget, mobile phones started off as huge bricks, massive in comparison to a home phone, yet they eventually evolved. Guess what's happening with batteries in the next 2 years and the years following on, massive gains in capacity, charging speed, more abundant materials, longevity and best of all, lower manufacturing costs. And they benefit you are already seeing from this big shift to EV's, is the battery technology in mobiles, laptops etc.... Have mainly driven forwards much faster due to existing EV demand.
So I fully agree, don't move onto EV yet if it doesn't suit your needs, it may never provide the convenience you are looking for your self, but in just a few years, there will be very few reasons for people to reject the newer, cheaper, better models.
Look up the cost of MG4 X-Power price and find another hot hatch that can do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds for that price.... Lol.
go to 12:00 , they mention, but they compare the motorway usage. not home or city usage. so they have to use the fastest charging to get better comparing.
You leaned that if you wanted to go on a longer run and rely on fast chargers, it will be as expensive, if not more that petrol. If you charged up at home while doing most of your daily trips, you would be significantly better off. You compared the best situation for a petrol car (motorway cruising) with possibly the worst thing for EV. It would be nice to see you drive around London or on some back roads/stop start driving for a couple of hours to see what consumption on both would be.
But that is the BIG issue. This proves that EVs are NOT the answer! Not everyone just drives around town and not everyone can charge at home!
You sound like you’ve bought an electric car 😢
@@SpeedRacerVThe average car journey is 20 miles per day. Most people use cars for local driving, a long trip like this is generally very uncommon, he is absolutely right, it is not a fair test.
@@aldozilli1293 I have designed and debugged EVs for 14+ years in the US, China and Europe. EVs need Big Cities and Big Cities need EVs. But, everyone if trying to force EVs for all usage. Therefore the analysis that EVs cost more to operate and maintain is true for a large percentage of people. For me there is no place to charge an EV. I travel once or twice a month round trip 700km+. Fast DC Charging does damage the batteries, especially since all EV manufacturers are reducing cost. There are NO EVs designed today that properly maintain the cell core temperatures.
It is great to see that you chose two affordable cars!!!
At least they were the same unaffordable cars! 😁
Haha yeah start the cost analysis with with expensive BMW s
Yeah. Affordable is 2k eur. Not 60k wtf
Most people don’t have the luxury of off road parking so won’t be able to benefit from cheaper more convenient charging.
same thinking here these persons are 'a little' out of the real world
In the real world the petrol 208 got home while the E208 was looking for a working charge point.
Meaning, what kind of moron will spend $15K or more on an EV when Gasoline is cheaper.
In the real work e 208 save so much money if you use charging in home and mostly you do city running , for 6£ you get 45m for petrol ( just an example) and you get 6£ for 200 mile for electric
@@Hamid-ml5th In the real world you've just spent £11,000 more on you electric 208 and it depreciates 30% faster than the petrol. Better get driving your break even point is around 150000 miles.
@@Hamid-ml5thin the real world a lot of people don't have access to home charging and anyone needing to travel more than 150 miles a day will have to waste time and money charging.
@@davidowen2859 anyone planning driving 150,000 miles ain't going to do it in an e208.....if they have any sense.
The situation here in NZ is currently very different. We've recently done a 1,806km (1,122 miles) road trip in our 2017 Ioniq 28kWh EV with a range of ~220km (136 miles). We charged at public chargers during our trip, but charged on a 3-pin plug home charger overnight once we arrived at our destination, which is what you would do in a real world scenario. So the total return journey was 1,346km (836 miles) and the total cost of electricity was $105 (£50). An equivalent petrol car would have cost $250 (£120). From next year EVs will need to pay what is called Road User Charge (RUC) which in this example would have added $102 (£49) to the cost, making the total cost for the EV $207 (£100). So still cheaper than the petrol car. One thing to know is that we don't have anywhere near as many public chargers here in NZ, and the largest charging site can only charge 6 vehicles simulatneously.
You clearly do not have greedy Tory government. British road users are taxed to over £120 billion pounds each year and our roads are worse than aweful because they only spend £6 billion on road maintenance and new roads in total. We have old Eatonian gangsters for mp's
This is an utterly pointless video.
The most expensive public fast charger costs everyone knows can be up to 80p / kw/h. Home charging, which 85% of all charging is, can be as little as 15p, even standard daytime charging is under half that cost.
Similarly fast 22kw public charging is well under half that price at around 30p
So, go ultra fast public and you're 5 x the low home charging cost, who knew?
UK isn't that big a place and the average daily mileage is around 30 miles so maybe a once weekly home charge at 4p per mile.
My daughter commutes 90 miles a day on electric which is quarter the cost of her previous ICE fuel cost, over £2000/ year cheaper.
So with this RUC thingie EVs aren't worth it as they cost basically the same and are much more expensive to buy.
@@ulfw What are you talking about, there are indeed many evs now with purchase cost parity with comparable ICS cars, having said that there are also many which are ridiculously expensive, but many of those will disapppear. Running fuel cost depending on where you are and electricity cost and whether you charge at home/work or at commercial chargers, fuel cost can be a fraction of ICE fuel cost.
e.g. UK low tariff home charge cost is around 1/7th the comparable ICE fuel cost, but the most expensive commercial charge points can actually cost more than ICE fuel. Example - average miles per year for a UK car is 8,000 and charging on low tariffs at home for a comparable medium size car would save £2600 - 3,000/ year.
@@iainwares6361 Where does the stat that "85% of all charging is done at home" come from? Is that historical fact or marketing spin? I would be keen to see a link
Well Electric Car drivers tend to forget that there's almost a £10k difference when buying an electric compared with the petrol version. £10k it's a lot of petrol even with current prices
If we make the Total Cost of Ownership, charging at home and making more than 10.000 km/year , then BEV wins.
@@yoyyaesta4808 only 10k km a year ? I doubt it.
@@yoyyaesta4808 I guess it depends on each person needs. If I split 10k over 48 months which is usually the time I keep a car is going to give me £208 per month to use in petrol which is a lot as I only spend £120. Not saying no to electric cars but at the moment the asking price to buy one is ridiculous
If you just want a runabout/commuter, there are plenty of used Nissan Leafs for under £10k that cost pennies to run ...
No its not. Even when you drive only 10K each year EVs - even much more expensive ones - are cheaper for the full lifetime of the vehicle.
Of course if all you see is the price of the vehicle itself - nobody will be able to help you. Please continue buying expensive petrol, visit the garage for maintenance, do not foget every 80-100K a new engine, AGR, DPF, intake, turbo, a few oil changes, new timing chain etc. pp...
That petrol BMW engine is great!
I had an M340i for a couple of weeks last month and drove it from Suffolk to Fort William.
Casual cruising to Glasgow then sport plus for the twisties and it finished off at 43pmg average and £200 in petrol for the trip overall. Given the current fuel prices I was pleasantly surprised how good it was all for the trip, with reasonable economy and a brilliant turn of speed and sound when I wanted it.
43??? My 1.7cdti Zafira design Nav does Cornwall to Edinburgh at an average of 53mpg
My M340i to the Lakes on M6 from London did 44.6 mpg so not surprised. Some M6 speed limits were 60 mph thought but .. ..
@@iangraham4510 Sorry but 53mpg from a 1.7L vs M340i with a 382hp 3.0L Inline 6 that does 43mpg is a horrible compromise. That is not impressive at all.
£200??? Is that one journey or is that there and back? I mean the mpg was impressive but the cost is still insane.
BMW 6 cylinder petrols are the perfect compromise between efficiency and power + sound
I have an older 125i with the last naturally aspirated i6 and get 40-45mpg on the motorway
95% of my charging is done at night at a cost of 7.5p/kWh. Overall, that makes an EV far cheaper, even with the occasional motorway fast charge. The trick is to ensure that your regular return journeys are covered by the car’s range.
Exactly what plan/tarrif are you on that is 7.5p per Kw/h?
Supplemental questions:-
is it 100% renewable energy
What happens when the majority of people get home chargers and the overnight "off-peak" rate is no longer off-peak?
Whatever answers you come back with, just remember these points:-
Not everyone can have a home charger,
The UK doesn't currently have capacity for even 40% of people to have a home charger
Your postcode has a large bearing on your energy cost
Charging a large capacity battery from home on an 11Kwh charger can take 18hrs
@@TheComputec it is Octopus Go. They no longer offer that tariff, but the new Intelligent Octopus tariff is better still: they access your car (most brands) or Ohme charger (any brand car) and ensure the car is charged by the mornong. You just set what you want and by when and the cost is 7.5p/kWh.
Yes, it is fully renewable and with Intelligent Octopus they of course pick the times when renewables are highest, say when a storm passes through and wind power is at a peak (and at night, the grid has plenty of spare capacity as other use is low).
Not everyone a home charger: it is true, though my local council installed some Ubitricity chargers in some of the lamp posts when they replaced the old posts for LED ones. Those use less power, so there was spare power available on the grid that powers those lights. It is council dependent, so lobby your council. For those in apartments with off street parking: new builds need a certain number of chargers by law. For oder homes, either lobby your landlord or tenants association (for shared freeholds).
Postcode: there is some variability, but not that much. I understand the 7.5p is available to most on the mainland.
Charging a large battery: The Tesla Model Y, Kia EV6 and a range of other 300 mile+ popular EVs have a ~75 kWh battery. On the standard single phase 7.4 kW charging, that takes 10 hours. The largest batteries on UK EVs are currently 100 kWh, so around 13 hours. Besides, London to Birmingham and back is 240 miles. That would be an exceptionally long commute. In a Tesla Model Y which has 4 miles/kWh, that is 60 kWh so only 8 hours of charging.
Besides, with Tesla, the cost of Supercharging is not all that high, currently around 38-43p/kWh, so can be used if you really need and much cheaper than say Instavolt. Over time, charging costs will come down for everyone, e.g subscription services are becoming available that lower the cost if you commit to a certain network.
I was going to offer to pick up your mike and hand it back to your opponent, but oh dear, he seems to have run back to mummy.@@Alex-ek5fb
Couple other points. First, my time has value. How long did it take to charge the EV, including the time spent waiting for a charger to open up, versus how long to fill with gas? Secind, you are correct that charging at home would probably be cheaper, however, in addition to the higher vehicle cost, you must add the additional cost of the charging system. You would need to have enormous savings of electric over gas, and I don't think that will happen.
Do you suffer from range anxiety and have to visit smelly petrol stations? I charge my car like I charge my phone - overnight and never have to worry. Savings over 1000€ per year and not killing the planet = smug. Every followed a diesel car and smelt the exhaust?
@@derekr1113 The problem I have, is that I have family and friends throughout the country that I enjoy visiting, and I enjoy driving to many of those places. I also travel for work regularly, but not far enough to fly, and I also enjoy vacations. So, I am not always home to charge overnight, and I rarely see an EV charger at the hotels I stay at, and if I am visiting someone without a charger, I would be out of luck! So, I guess if you are a homebody that never goes anywhere, charging overnight is fine! And let's not forget when California told you that you couldn't charge your EV overnight during a heat wave, because the grid wasn't capable. Finally, don feel too good about saving the planet, because many studies have showed that during the total life of an EV, it is worse than a gas car. There is a TON of minerals that must be mined for the battery, and very large, fossel fuel using equipment is used. Most of the energy used to charge your EV is generated from fossil fuels, and lets not forget the unknown about what happens to the battery once scrapped.
@@derekr1113can you articulate your points without being condescending?
That's the big point the EVangelists conveniently forget....the cost of time charging for a self employed person or a company having to pay their drivers to be idle. Both costs are way higher than any possible savings (which really don't exist on long journeys anyway).
@@derekr1113 You sound like a right cheapskate. A 1,000 euro a year saving is nothing.... you can easily save that much by turning off all electrical items of a night before going to bed, do you do that?
If you are so tight fisted and think 1,000 euros a year saving is a lot, I question how you could even afford the over-priced EV in the first place.
No to mention the cost of replacing the battery, generally higher depreciation cost.. the fact that a LOT of garages won't touch EV's due to the lethal high voltage batteries on the underside.... meaning insurance costs are higher in EV's than in normal cars.
You might be saving 1,000 euros per year on "fuel" but when you factor in the depreciation, possibly higher insurance and inconvenience of having to find a garage (or get ripped off at a main dealer) the actual "savings" are a lot lower. It's ironic you ask the person who uses an ICE if he worries about "range anxiety" as range anxiety is pretty much only experienced for the most part by EV drivers... this video is a good example of it.
I've never put 400 miles worth of fuel in my car and then been worried I might not even be able to get 300 miles from that supposed 400 miles of estimated range - my car's estimated range on a full tank is around 420 miles, and yes it's a "smelly diesel" but it is as quick off the line as most EV's and even faster than some of them.
In a small country like mine, Barbados, an ev car would be really economical as Barbados is 21 miles long and 14 miles wide.
loool fiat 500e is what you need
What an excellent test. I'm sick of people shoving EVs down my throat and crapping on about how cheap they are to run. I greatly appreciate this one.
only cheap if you charge it at home or some work places
Forever petrol car, even without oil.
Half the cost if charging from home
That i4 M50 has the 20” wheels and not the 19” which has the 318m WLTP range you mention. I think the 20” knocks of 50 miles of range and most people on the forums suggest 220 miles in warm conditions.
Not sure in the UK but in the US, states are now charging additional fees for electric car annual registration since EV's do not pay motor fuel taxes. Some states are now considering a mileage charge as well. This has to be added to the cost of driving an EV.
Yes correct. I think it is a good idea. Although, I know it can also be a devisive topic
My experience of driving an EV for 3 years is that I can count on 1 hand the number of times I need to DC charge. I’d suggest AC charging makes up 97% of my use and that is about 1/3 the cost of DC charging in my country. (I don’t have solar yet…)
And so it happens that a lot of people have ideas about driving an EV ... until they meet someone like us or a colleague, a friend, a family member ... to then learn all the information they got was false. In the end it makes the petrol heads like the producers of the video, look like low life scam artists really. Chances are the misinformed are going to be a bit agry at the deception and never go back to burning dino-juice.
Right? I'm in my 7th year of owning an ev and I've rapid charged less than 5 times. Total. And, my home charger tells me how much every charge costs.
How about a comparison between a PHEV, an EV and a diesel? Volvo xc90 T8 v B5D v Tesla Model X (using super chargers). EVs are tackling hatchbacks which can be very efficient and are slowly moving into SUV territory which is less efficient as they’re higher up. If you need a big car the EV range drops and so does efficiency thanks to increased weight. It would be interesting to see how those three compare. At what point does the reduced running costs overtake the increased purchase price?
This is the first time I have watched the team here on What Car. This is a well-done film with good sound and clear results, and I did "like it". I personally can't afford an electric car yet, so I may be forced to buy secondhand when the moment arrives. I am always watching documentaries on the tv about the electric car, and how it is progressing. This was good. Are second-hand electric cars going to be as reliable as used petrol or diesel cars, I wonder. In my opinion, the whole planet-saving scenario is quite confusing if we look at it just in terms of money, whether it's cars, our energy, or tree-planting....and as I mentioned I won't be able to afford a new car so people like me will need to seek out a loan or go second hand. Am I in the majority? I was speaking to a local delivery driver last week, who had a nice new van. I did ask what was it like, going electric, and to my surprise, he said he'd gone diesel !!! Wow!! Apparently, it was about the costs involved with delivering in the City of Bath near me, with the new charging zones. Can that be true I wondered? One strange little thing I picked up on, why is Wills, who has an excellent deep voice, wearing an apricot t-shirt with "Deisel" on, surely it should say "Electric". But I am a bit daft !
Seams the resale value of one year old EV's is reported to be 50% of new price.
Would love to see price comparison including home charging as this would be real life
@@dingopisscreek maybe not for you and the infrastructure needs more work but petrol and diesel will soon be old fashioned
Except that you won't be charging at home at the destination will you?
@@alistairjohnson8185 nope you'd do that for the first journey. Overnight home charging for the outbound trip would have cost me £7.86 for the BMW and £5.86 for the Peugeot. So even with the expensive fast charging at the other end I'd still be saving around £35 to £40 on the whole trip.
That is until the government lose their revenue from petrol and diesel then to get the revenue back your home charger will get taxed ,and think about the job loses at all petrol stations that will close .
Even now I would not recommend an EV if the user/owner/driver cannot charge at home/work. If you can, then the first 250 miles each day (ymmv) are literally 1/10th the fuel cost. So even the days you go a long way you have halved the fuel cost and for most people most journeys are less than the daily range so 1/10th cost for those.
Not bad for something that is better, more reliable, less servicing and for sure more fun!
Also what wasn’t taken into consideration was the the journey times for both. So the electric cars should of kept the time running while waiting to charge on top of the journey and then you see the real difference.
83kw per hour, 57 quid so 45 mins to charge plus he waited so guessing an hour in total compared to 5 mins for petrol.. if you're waiting, likely to grab food so another 10er spent
@@manbearpig3231I make sandwiches 😂
95% of the miles most people do on an Electric Car, they charge at home.
Even in these days you can easily save 70% of the cost of each mile you run in your car.
For now but not in the near future......
@@gordonmurray2631 Electric vehicles are 3 to 4 times more energy efficient than combustion ones. The most energy price rises the most the EV saves you money.
You assume that 95% of the population own their own homes or live in places where they can easily charge at home and can afford these electric cars and drive like 80 year old grannies. That is just not the case
@@gbej1 I assume petrolheads are unable to own a garage or plug the car in the supermarkets wallbox. Too hard.
@@gbej1 what he said was factually accurate and for those who can’t charge at home, Tesco now offer free EV charging for all customers in many of their supermarkets
How long did it take to charge vs fill up and how much is your time worth?
Why are people hell bent on obsession with range? If you commute over long distances, then they are NOT for you.
I have an EV and since ownership have never had a problem for what I need it for and the distance I travel 99% of the time. Its perfect!
@Joe Lynch Pretty easy to achieve that within any EV these days. Hell, used to do 25,000 miles annually with a 30kWh Leaf... & there's been a 3-4x increase in range since then.
well one of my cars can be doing 180 miles a day (community nurse) Also we tend to go on holiday to Scotland etc at least once a year and regularly have days out to the lake district etc so i am interested in what happens in an electric car if you actually leave your local area.
@@del4668 I tend to prioritise accommodation with chargers & maybe have a look on Plugshare as to what's in a particular area. As for long trips (& I do 500 - 750 mile ones irregularly) it tends to be a case of letting the car + sat nav pick up on it, e.g. few months back got on the ferry in Dublin to Holyhead & on to Harwich, ferry over to Hook of Holland & on to Poznan... didn't do anything more than set Harwich (or Poznan) as the destinations on driving off the ferry, let the car to figure out where best stop for charging.
@Joe Lynch 30-40k a year makes EV ownership a hassle, but what you could save in fuel costs is potentially massive.
I see no obsession with range here. This is a long-range rest of the cars, therefore the range of the cars is relevant.
If one is testing, for example, the boiling times of different kettles, this doesn't mean that one is obsessed with the boiling times of kettles; it is simply what is being tested.
My 2022 Porsche 911 Carrera during an 1100 mile road trip in Scotland earlier this year astonished me with an average 38.6 mpg averaging 58 mph. Not a car bought for economy but truely amazing. The majority of 911s built since the early 60s are still on the road so the C02 cost to make them per year of use will exceed any EV I’m sure. It’s not just about fuel used but total C02 cost of ownership.
In the United States, cars manufactured after 2015 produce less than 1% of annual Co2 emissions. I would imagine the same for Europeans.
wait a minute.... why are you doing 58 in a 911? LOL.
@@kevinn1158 Scotland is awash with permanent 60mph average speed cameras.!
@@davidthegolfer Grrrrrrrr. They only put those mostly in school zones in Toronto. And inner city main roads where they know people really speed. Like the limit is 50kph and people are doing 80-85 because it's a big straight road. If you are on the highway, people go 120-130 all of the time. 100kph is the limit.
Can you lend me £100,000 to buy a decent one then? 911 is a specialist ownership. Tell us about a major service and Porsche parts.
I’m glad you mentioned the home charging at the end of the video because anybody who can charge at home would have left London with a full charge from home and as such in the case of the BMW you would only need that one rapid charge to get back. But for me I prefer the smooth quiet drive of the electric car. As for the Peugeot it’s not really a motorway motor it’s classed as a city car but yes it can do it but it’s not really designed to be belting up and down a motorway. Me for my motoring it’s the electric car. I own a Kia EV6 GT line and love it.
I’d love to see a similar test carried out driving around town for 200mls. Also if I bought an ev I’d turn all the gizmos on to make it more efficient.
And freeze to death 🙈
@@Jestey6 Heated seat, heated steering wheel, heat pump. No need to freeze - unless stupid enough not to dress accordingly. Running a couple hundred miles around town might mean several days of motoring with top-ups taking no time at all - possibly only 7.5p /unit electricity, too.
Several cold starts for the ICE, continuous air pollution for all around (ICE drivers like to forget this?). De-icing in cold weather takes little energy in an electric, but a lot of effort and steamed up windows for the ICE - unless warmed up before moving off.
The overall efficiency would be streets ahead for the BEV. Of course a large, high powered ICE car is not really needed for ‘town use’ so, again, horses for courses arises. But the EV would reign supreme.
All-round motoring includes both town and longer distance runs. Occasional expensive electric charging just has to be put up with. I’ve topped up just twice, at public chargers, in nearly 4 months of ownership. It would only have needed one - if person at the place where we stopped was not paranoid of BEVs bursting in flames when charging! I only top up with sufficient charge to easily get home - then replenish with cheap power at my leisure (while I am asleep).
Potential fuel saving over 3700 miles could have been as much as £500+ (was actually about £400 because I’ve not yet completed changing my electricity supplier - but a little more if solar energy is taken into account. I expect that figure will decrease during the winter months, but every little helps to defray the extra up-front purchase price.
Running round town, on short runs, only returned about 25mpg for our larger diesel car, so near 30p/mile? The obvious means of town-travel would be with the bus pass but that is rarely convenient for our situation. Electric is ruling fine for our household. No going back to ICE. The second car has been driven just a handful of times in the last 4 months - only used when carting roof-rack sized timber and such like.
@@oliver90ownercan you tell me if you were doing 3700 mile with electric in town , how much would cost you home charging, I am taking normal home charging with box , not solar panel or ,,,?
@@Hamid-ml5th My mix, at present, is typically mostly 30 mile round trips, then local and occasionally forays up to 200 miles away from home. 3700 miles around town (a smallish town) would likely not be much extra m/kWh for my car - it is not a ‘city car’ - but 4.5-5.5 m/kWh should be easily attainable for urban driving in a more appropriate vehicle. I expect a lot of newer, smaller vehicles coming onto the market will return 6 m/kWh or better for urban driving?
Depends, of course, on type and amount of heating/cooling demanded by the driver and/or passengers, too.
Simple maths to work it out. Miles per kWh and cost per unit of electric will provide that answer by the formula:
3700 miles divided by m/kWh and multiplied by the unit electricity cost (in GBP) for the chosen tariff.
If that 3700 miles is an annual mileage, it is an average of little more than 10 miles per day. My average mileage, per day, is currently more than three times that.
My cost, at present would likely amount to around £170 - perhaps less, so less than a third of the cost for a reasonably efficient fossil car. Lots of cold starts and short runs, in an ICE vehicle, could make its fuel consumption much worse.
Now, if I choose the ‘Octopus Go’ tariff, my fuel cost would be reduced by a factor of two, so ~£85. Making the ‘energy cost’ about one sixth of that for a petrol vehicle. The ‘Octopus Intelligent’ tariff would cost less than £70 - but would, at present, incur an extra outlay approaching a thousand pounds. Both those tariffs, at present provide other benefits, of course. Running every electrical appliance at those reduced rates can provide substantial savings on the usual household electricity costs.
I fully intend changing my electricity supplier in the near future, but I first need to work out the costs, for our particular annual electricity usage. The efficiency of the car will doubtless reduce during the colder part of the year.
Interesting video. I've had an EV for 3 months (Skoda Enyaq), very pleased with it. I was always aware charging on commercial chargers would give little or no advantage over ICE cars. However I live in North Essex, have two daughters to visit in Kent the car goes there and back with no issue and in the last three months I've only once used an external charger (and that was to 'try it out' I suspect the car could have got home.... just) I normally charge at home, I have a dual rate tariff so I only charge on the cheaper overnight rate at 17.5p/KwHr. Being a geek I keep track of exactly how much I've spent and over the last three months the cost of driving the Enyaq (2500 miles) has averaged 7p per mile. This compares to the diesel Vauxhall Astra it replaced, which I had 4 years and did 37500 miles at an average cost of 11p per mile. Bear in mind that 11p is an average over 4 years, at the start diesel was £1.30ish per litre and at the end £1.80ish
What puts most buyers off an EV is the initial cost of the car in the first place. They are significantly more expensive than ICE equivalents ontop of the other drawbacks of range/charging Infrastructure aswell as unknown variables like battery life and cost. Technology will improve in the coming years but for most people not there yet
@@johnjackson2349 You are telling me between the lines that most buyers (common people I suppose) did never learn at school or elsewhere something as TCO....and also do not calculate for their ICE cars the TCO when buying, but go for the cheapest to buy (and possibly paying the most for energy and maintenance)
That Skoda dropped 120 miles of range in 35 minutes with the caravan hitched - 28 miles into the trip. We aren't told all the bad things about EVs, if that Skoda is favourable like your previous vauxhall surely there's no benefit, the Vauxhall is far cheaper and can haul a caravan too if needed and gets a longer range. Can't quite grasp it
But what if you were towing a caravan or trailer?😐
And what happens when we can get our ICE cars converted to hydrogen from water? You can't do that with an electric motor and battery... plus the fact that we are actually running out of the essentials for the manufacture of batteries...
Great test.
Even more worrying is the cheaper petrol cost includes high duty paid to the tax fund, circa 50%. In comparison the electricity for the EV only includes 20% VAT. So add in the duty black hole and EV costs rocket further.
But then if you are only using public chargers you aren’t going to be paying the pay as you go rate like the idiots in this video. BMW gives you a charge card getting ionity at 24p per kWh for £11 per month. That’s £59 to do 700 miles a month (£48 for charging and £11 for membership). The same in a 60 mpg diesel would cost £100 for 700 miles a month so £41 more.
I have a comment, most of the people who seem to do this kind of video, to see what is most expensive, but not many take in to account all the associated costs, well done to you for at least mentioning that the cars actually cost alot more, not mentioned the fact that a petrol can possibly last twice as long before needing expensive replacement parts, and the overall lifespan of the vehicle, you all seem to say home charging is cheaper! But now the government Grant's have all gone a home charging system costs in excess of £1000 most people doing average mileage would take approximately one and half years to recoup this cost, not to mention the initial cost of the car
Besides the fuel price, you need to consider the cost of the electric cars vs traditional petrol/diesel cars. Also the maintenance fee.
So about the same.
@@iain8837 how so?
@@notroll1279 My bad, somewhat cheaper for an EV depending on various factors.
@@iain8837
I just don't know...that's why I'm asking...
EVs apparently need less mechanical stuff like brake pads etc., have less moving parts.
On the other hand, they're hard on tyres that can be quite expensive and it remains to be seen how well all the suspension and steering components take the increased mass of an EV.
Battery life expectation is a big unknown.
Tax is none or low, insurance can be very expensive.
With various unknowns in the equation, I couldn't say, really.
I'm not in the market for a new car right now - I'll probably stick to my old Saab for some more time and let others find out first.
@@notroll1279 I have an EV and an ICE,
Both do 5k miles a year so no problems for me with general wear and tear. Not service the EV yet so not sure if cost. No government reduction for EV here. Insurance and TAX are identical, fuel
costs for EV will be 30% of ICE but with 5k miles it’s no big deal anyway. The way they drive, I take theEV every time as instant torque and ease of driving is great. That’s the main reason my wife switched. Battery has 8 year warranty, car has 5. Won’t keep it longer that 8, that’s for sure!
To complete the picture I would suggest also testing the hybrid cars, a plug-in hybrid versus a basic (not plug-in) hybrid on the same track. Would be nice to know the results.
@message me on my telegram👉👉 Official What car do it every day for the last 10 years...
You forget that for most people who have home charging electric is still FAR cheaper than petrol. Currently my running cost over the last year in an EV is 5p per mile. This is charging 85% - 90% at home and the rest at high speed chargers.
You forget that over 40% of the population do not have offstreet parking so are at the mercy of commercial charge points. It’s ridiculous to force everyone in to EVs.
@@alanbooth7280 Well for them you have plenty of other options. Spend 8 hours at work charge there, charge at the supermarket and contact you local council to install post and lamp post chargers as they are already being used.
@@alanbooth7280 correct but the infrastructure is moving on well and in the next five years we should see much better solutions for those who do not have off street parking. There are already options in many cities for lamp post charging and this will only improve but it does need the government to step in and legislate local councils to provide multiple solutions.
@@alanbooth7280 That should be a huge clue to people w/o the ability to charge at home.
@@Ben.Royals you live on another planet clearly 😂. Every other charging option is far more expensive than running a diesel car for example. Infrastructure is simply not there yet
It seems to me that this is an example of the best-case scenario for the ICE cars vs the worst-case scenario for the EVs. To fully explore the comparative costs, you also need to do the a similar test in and around cities or towns, stop-and-go traffic, basically the more common commuting scenario that most of us face. Then, we could balance up how much you save in every day commutes, vs how much you lose on longer trips, to get an ACTUAL real-world cost comparison of running an EV vs ICE.
lol! A motorway journey is hardly an unusual journey - you're an apologist!
100% agree... these articles always take the worse case EV and dont forget it might catch fire on the way burning a hole in the planet!
@@MassiveBenny for most people a full tank/battery motorway journey is a rare thing on a daily basis... Most UK commutes are less than 40 miles a day.... you're a scaremonger
@@andym1548 that's bullshit but carry on....
@@MassiveBenny well thought out response... keep on trucking
"I have been sticking to the speed limit, that might be why.." - what a legend
This answers the question "which is really cheaper *for long distance journeys?"* and seems a fair test to me. Good that you mentioned the potential savings by slow charging outside the long journey.
You included gCO2/km for the claimed manufacturer emissions at the exhaust pipe. Please included the closest equivalent for the EV grid power emissions in future too, so we can see how much less emissions the EV is causing per km. You can either take the average UK grid emissions and/or check on the carbon intensity app for instantaneous emissions at time of charging.
And yes there are additional emissions caused by both the EV battery production as well as the petrol mining, refining and transportation, but let's agree those are wildly different depending on which EV you've bought, and are something to be considered separately as part of the EV buying process based on how long you expect to keep the EV and how many miles you'll use it for.
you have to also add the emissions for extracting oil, refining it and transporting it to the gas station. Gas doesn't grow in the tank directly
@@mihaiconstantin-pau5116 and 65% of the electricity for charging your car is still coming from fossil fuels... and making those batteries isn't exactly a clean manufacturing process
@@TheComputec 7.5% from fossil fuels in France, and falling in France. Much cleaner than petrol, diesel, oil refining.
@@davidperry7128 Whichever way you look at it, EV's are not as green as you think. Now, you can carry on deluding yourself, but facts are facts.
90,000 miles have to be driven in an EV before it's carbon footprint begins to reduce compared to an ICE
Actually, it takes about 50k for the EV and gas car emissions to break even.@@TheComputec
It’s also the waiting times, you had to wait for a charger to be available. I’m guessing some cars had finished charging but not moved their cars. If you want to just go somewhere in normal time then petrol would be the best option, just fill up and go.
Except that claim is pretty absurd. No one is casually driving 200 miles somewhere for a quick meeting and planning that trip to the minute. The average miles driven in the UK is 7400 a year, which is barely 616 miles a month.
Which obviously means people are not doing 400+ casual round trips on the clock...
It seems to me that the key question isn't whether ICE or EV is more expensive to operate "today", because prices of both oil, electricity AND taxes are likely to change wildly over the 10-15 years of the life of the vehicle. Considering that EVs are more expensive than ICE to buy and that no battery of today is expected to survive that long, a new battery will add to the cost. And that is without considering the risk of a battery fire.
Having to buy a new car sometime in the next year I started this journey with the intent of buying an EV. But purely from a financial perspective Imcould not justify it. My conclusions were:
- In 2023-2024 I should buy a reliable and good value for the money car that is as cheap as possible but comfortable enough to not regret it. That way if I choose wrong... I would not have wasted too much money. And I can always get a proper EV in 10 years as a 2nd car as prices, efficiency and reliability will be better then.
- I will let others lead and troubleshoot EVs for now. ICE would be the "cheapest option today", but given my anticipated mostly short distance plus occasional longg trip driving a PHEV (charged only at home to get better electrivity prices) would be a better option if I can find one cheap enough. Plus, it would make me feel better knowing that most of my driving would be electric.
Given the options available in the US my curent options are a Nissan Versa (quite inexpensive and having driven one many times not a bad option) or a Prius Prime (almost reasonably priced after the federal tax rebate). The Prius Prime calls to me, but I will need one in at most a week from buying it, and I seriously doubt one will be available given current Toyota dealership stock practices. So, I will likely end up with a Versa.
Try it in below 0, hear some charging stations won't work in cold weather, heater wearing down battery faster ECT. Have to warm up because of heavy frost
You hear wrong....
Evs are most popular in Norway 🇳🇴 now have a think 🤔
How much would it have been if you had used an equivalent 420d of recent generation? Moreover in terms of carbon emissions I would be curious to know when is the break even point between a diesel Euro 6c already built and buying a brand new (equivalent) electric car.
This is a really good question and has a really complicated answer. Volvo produced an excellent report, which identified that production of an electric C40 produced about 70% more carbon than an ICE XC40, and that break even could take 9 years, depending on how your electricity is produced. I think keeping an existing car on the road seems an easy win in terms of pure carbon emissions (as opposed to buying any new car).
It will depend heavily on the how you charge. Renewable or the grid.
Superb point,my 420d easily hits 60mpg on a motorway run..it takes 5 mins to fill up and gives a total range of over 600miles..why would I swap to an ev ?
@@peterlumsdon4289 to stop people dying from strokes, COPD, lung cancer and asthma caused by the increasing air pollution from cars, maybe...? 🤔
@@peterlumsdon4289 Diesel ❤️
No one ever seems to factor in the cost of your time waiting for an EV to charge, or as here, waiting for a charger to become available. Apply a basic business rate of £50 / hour to that and the cost goes through the roof.
Thats simple 90% of charging happens when you are asleep, the small amount of charging for business/holiday etc trips is not usually a problem. Just avoid the chargers at MacDonalds around lunch time.
@@kevinashurst634 So who are these people using the ever expanding number of public charging stations. The one in the video was completely full. Are they all asleep in their cars then?
@@MarkJT1000 There are a LOT of chargers around, 6,500 rapid chargers now. Use zapmap or the cars inbuilt nav system and go to a charger that's available.
@@MarkJT1000 there are 6500 rapid ev chargers in the uk, probably over 100 around Leeds. Why did What Car go to a charging station that is often busy, when the car and various apps would tell them where the next nearest and a lot cheaper available charge point is ? Any yes some people do have a sleep whilst charging. I use that Ionity charger sometimes and it is busy with Porsches/Audis and Kias who can ise the full 350Kw facility and they aren't there very long.
That's because typically I spend about 30 Seconds to charge my EV. Soo my labor cost which my company charges clients is about £125 per hour. Comes to about £1.04 vast majority of the time I charge my car that has 250 miles range. £1.04 Labor Cost is why people don't care and never fact it in.
Amazing how many commenters didn't watch the last minute of the video where they say home charging is cheaper. Ionity prices have always been extortionate for non-subscribers, although Osprey are worse. If you regularly charge on public chargers then a Tesla membership will let you charge at 39p/kWh. Servicing costs have been worked out by two major lease companies as 50% of servicing combustion cars, but I never kidded myself it would be cheaper, the UK establishment and corporations always have a way of bleeding motorists dry. I am instead enjoying the instant torque, relaxing quiet on the motorway and not having to hold my breath when I get out of the car after putting it in the garage.
What’s the percentage error on the advertised range on those EVs? Same test in winter would be beneficial as a comparison too.
Very few people who charge at home pay the price cap rate which is what I assume you used in your home charging cost calculation. 83kwh for the i4 @ 12p/kwh (current Octopus Go overnight rate) and the cost is £10
Eye opening, great showcase! Also interesting that the economy test - again - turned into a range test for the electric car. And the charger was not available when required. Falls in line with my first Tesla experience: Unexpectedly only made it 2/3 of the way before charging was required, and then the charge station was fully occupied by other Teslas that also made it exactly that far from our capitol...
i bought a 3 year old model 3 performance and previous owner supercharged it only once throughout it's life time.
Not eye opening at all honestly just another bunch of EV haters who designed a test to favour the fuel cars. No one drives their EVs like this all the time. Most driving is done with home or destination charging and you get that significantly cheaper (home charging is on the order of 2p per mile compared to fuel cost of 17-22p per mile)
@@TJWhiteStarquite a lot of people don't have the option of charging at home.
@@TJWhiteStarOh, of course, because hurling insults at people is the most sophisticated way to showcase your true, refined personality for the world to admire.😂😂😂
Very good test and very true.
Level 3 Fast Charging around me, my Tesla Model 3 Performance costs me the equivalent of 25 to 45MPG, depending on electric and gas prices. However, with my electric costs at home, the cost equivalent would be between 75 to 150MPG.
I'm in the US and some states charge MUCH less than my state for Level 3 chargers. Then you can also find free places to Level 2 charge.
In a nut shell, while EV's are not always cheaper to run, there are many ways to get cheaper/free power. Gas cars need gas, and that's your only choice. But if you can regularly charge for a low cost at home, EV is definitely cheaper to operate overall.
Except you need MORE money to outlay at the start.
The cars cost more... the EV charger you have to buy and PAY to have fitted. In the UK this can easily cost £1,000 or more, often as much as £1,500. Then you are subject to the mercy of your electricity company, who could if they wanted to, quite simply, just double their price for overnight charging rates. I've never seen a fuel garage charge more than 45-50p over the average market price for a litre of petrol or diesel.. but the cost of electricty has drastically increased here in the UK in just the last 13 months and even in other countries like Spain, electricity is still very expensive.
Your analogy of "it's a gas car so it needs gas" is a bit daft.... guess what. Your "electric car" needs mains electricity.
In the UK, EV prices are a rip off. The government used to give you £5,000 back towards the cost of the car, but they still weren't good value even after that. This scheme then went down drastically to just £2,000 back from the government and within the last 2 years they scrapped it completely and you get NOTHING back now.... EV's only really work if you can charge for free or extremely low cost reliably, and have shorter commute distances.
We bought an i4 e40 msport last October. Now with 6,800 miles on the odometer we have yet to pay for any charging. Out solar panels make more power than our house plus the car consume and we live in a state with net metering. Our invoice balance with the utility since we moved into the new house stands at minus $3,600. Using Eco Pro and keeping to 5-10 mph over the posted limit, the car averages 3.5 to 4.0 mi/kWh depending on temperature and precipitation. We use regen for nearly all braking so I expect the rotors and pads to last 100,000 miles. Combined with the lower cost of scheduled maintenance, the i4 is far cheaper to operate than our comparably expensive Audi S4.
Having driven an EV for the last 2 years and 26,000 mi. I can say that they really are much cheaper if you charge at home, but if you're ever completely reliant on public charging e.g. when you are on holiday or don't have home charging. They can be quite expensive.
And if not; most people would be on a subscription charger service, which would see the cost of charging half , compared to the prices shown in this video
Even though public chargers have become pricey since last year (Poland) Superchargers are still free - but I rarely use them, since their located too far from highways. But since more widely spread public fast chargers have become too expensive to make sense I’ve stopped using them and charge solely at my destination - even if they don’t have a wallbox, they have a regular outlet somewhere. I’ve done it this way on all of my journeys this year - not only does it save me money, but time as well.
M50 is a front and rear wheel drive ,not quite an equivilant using a m440i,equivilant is the i4 edrive.Probably should also include servicing and running costs.
They’re both awd….
Waiting time for "re-fueling", overnight accommodation, coffee and meals whilst waiting, interest payed on dearer vehicle, etc need to be factored into ownership costs. Cheers
Wow - thanks guys for doing this. It's quite frustrating to see what they're doing over there. I mean, for someone like me who only does short travels and can charge for free at the shopping center, it's certainly worthwhile at this point. But it just shows what's to come, doesn't it 🤔🤔
Which shopping centre lets you charge for free?
Free now later a fortune, plus you'll be limited per your social credit score
@@illawarriorhill70 Almost all of the ones here in Sydney - makes people come there instead and spend their money 😉😉
In the US and AU electricity never needs to go up significantly. Investors love the market and build the wind & solar farms as needed. The IRA is going to place public chargers every 50 miles along major roads. EVs will rule.
@@tmayorca8770 Do you live in china? or plan on living in china?
39.9mpg on a motorway run isn’t surprising. The claimed 35 is the combined, surely? It’s still not a patch on some diesels and small petrols which are 75+mph on a motorway run
Motorways are not friends of evs above 60mph
that is 8.7 mile to a litre which was £1.99 or 23p a mile. plus road tax cost for that car, plus servicing part ( oil, oil filter, etc) or a new exhaust every 3 or 4 years.
Now do the same test, with the same cars, driving around town and then with a mix of some dual carriageways and town driving. Most people don't drive hundreds of miles on the motorways every day or even regularly. It would also be nice if you started with the caveats you placed at the end and pointed out this test was using the most expensive fuel options for both cars, and that home charging and supermarket petrol stations would be much cheaper.
Also, a ground up ICE car should be compared to a ground up EV, not an EV based on far from ideal ICE chassis..
LOL it was rigged.
Came here to say this, thank you for being the voice of reason
The one thing you failed to state is the BMW could of turned around and completed a round trip on the original tank. Where the electric car would of had to take another full charge. That is over double the cost.
I'm a BMW i4 e40 owner. This test was solely based on recharging at public, ultra speed EV chargers which are stupidly expensive. This doesn't represent the reality of most EV car drivers experience that I know of, although accept that high mileage company car drivers would use public net-work a lot more.
I do most of my charging at home via a 7.2 KW ohme wall charger with a EV plan via Octopus energy with rates charged at 27.p p/ KWh during the day and, more importantly, 7 p / kWh over night [11.30pm to 5.30am]. I only use public chargers on longer trips where I need a top up to get back home.
On this basis, the 83.9 kWh the i4 in this video test used would have cost me at today's prices - May 24 - £23.42 to charge to 100% at home during the day before test or £14.30 with a combo of day and overnight charge rates [5.65 hrs on day rate and 6 hrs on overnight rate].
I have the i40 e40 version, so single motor, which is more efficient than the i40 e50 M so the same trip would have used less kWh and therefore less money.
For a round trip to Leeds, the petrol i4 440 Gran Coupe would have been about £103 in fuel where-as for me charging to100% at home before the trip and using 100 % public charge for coming back would be between £65 to £74 depending on the mix of day and overnight charging.
The 'surprising' What-Car conclusion from this test is only valid if you only ever charge your EV from public chargers and doesn't reflect the impact of using home chargers and cheap EV home electrical plans.
“That’s okay I’m not particularly in a rush and I made it, that’s the important thing” that’s the future of motoring. Just being glad you made it, never mind being on time. Lol
My Tesla costs about $12 MO. In the US to charge at home with about 1200 miles of driving a month. The cars you tested were not designed to be electric cars which I am sure contribute to the difference in range and cost..
If you remove government subsidies and tax breaks - both on the car and on the electricity - then ICE vehicles are significantly cheaper. I expect EVs are cheaper to run but you'd probably need to run 8-12 years to reach break even/equivalent.
like you said, road trips = charging outside vs everyday use = home charging. However, don't forget the long term maintenance, reliability, insurance, resell value. There are more like sound and exhaust pollution...etc. I have been using EV 3+ years. Mostly home charging day-to-day use and few road trips, so far keep it. For buyers that go to track racing, show cars, need loud noise, that's another market.
Has your EV broken even on its global emissions yet though…
@@ZodbieMan I did the numbers, another 1/2 year will break even. After that, it's good.
home charging also equals the cost of home charger install. ours was around £800, that pays for a lot of petrol
@@MrDead1975 I installed it myself both sides, £1600 - cost of the parts. Unfortunately, for owners don't know how to DIY, it's a lot of money.
@@g600f700 so you near the 90,000 miles it takes to 'become carbon neutral'?
The same argument holds true in the USA. If you can't charge at home, you're better off buying a Hybrid car, such as a Toyota Prius. The price per kWh is much less compared to petrol, so, this same test would apply if you compare electric to a hybrid. The reason for getting such good mileage in your BMW, is the 8-speed transmission. It allows the engine to run slower, under more load, which improves the thermal efficiency of the engine. If you can charge at home, electric is clearly the best choice. (especially, if you have solar)
Charging at home on off-peak hours is about 30% of the cost of a charging station for me. I think everyone is aware that home charging is the way you really save money with an EV. And if you have the ability to add solar at home, even more saving.
It's also worth mentioning that a lot of EV owners with home charging will also have solar panels, which provide a big percentage of the electricity for 'free'
its also worth noting that many people will not be able to do home charging,
Its also worth noting how much the Solar Panels Cost
@@MOSSFEEN both true, but as I say - if you already have off-road parking in front of your house, and solar panels on the roof (as many hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have) running an EV becomes much more affordable than in this video.
If you haven't got a home charger then as of yet evs are not the answer. In all other cases evs are cheaper
@@MOSSFEEN Electricity from your own solar panels will cost about 8-15p.
Bear in mind that the 440i still remain with range to probably make the same journey back while the I4 M50 had "fill up" completely it's "tank".
I'm driving a 2022 Volkswagen Golf Variant TGI with BioGas (CBG). Average 3.5kg/100km consumption. Price about 1.58€/kg. = 5,53€ = 4.84 £/ 100km.
Why are people so concerned about which car is so quick? They all have sufficient power to go on the parkway or the street.
@WhatCar
Extremely interesting and as you said some of us would be, I'm shocked. I would love to see how the Nissan Qashqai e-power compared to those four, considering that is self-charging and cannot be charged up externally, only filled with petrol.
Thank you for sharing such an interesting comparison.
Little miss sunshine, no offence and maybe you were going for this, but your name is one of the biggest red flags I've ever seen! Unless you were being sarcastic and are quite the opposite of course! Love and respect but if that ain't an inside joke, change your name! 😜
On our third EV. Average cost is about £/€3-5 per week and after one year of owning our current EV, we’ve done over 20,000 miles with no issues.
Servicing is minimal per year.
We have travelled between UK and SW France several times this year and apart from taking longer to charge than it takes to fill a fossil fuelled car (we usually want/ have a break at the same time as charging), we’re very happy with the 100% electric cars we’ve had. Apart from not pumping poisonous gasses out of an exhaust pipe and funding the billions in profits made by oil corporations, we think it a far wiser choice than any other car.
Don't worry , you're polluting quite a bit when you recharge , you just don't see it. That power has to come from somewhere , so there are no free rides.
@Lysander - wow 😲 the level of brainashing being absorbed by you is astounding 😱 scientists have proven that brain uses a lot of energy so the nature made it wanting to save the effort, meaning that the brain switches off whenever possible... and you seem to be a perfect specimen of a mint condition, never been used brain... 🤷♂️😔
@@danielesbordone1871 Don’t forget how much worse producing an electric car is for the environment than a petrol car.
I don't know the answer, so legitimately asking the question. What is the environmental cost of producing the three EVs yuo have bought, against say the single 16 year old ICE that I drive around in?
@@myarch4161 you don't even need 3... just one ev is already worse for environment... not even accounting that yoh have your ice car for 16 years... and ev might most likely not survive for such long time of usage... 🤷♂️
The electric is $66,000 while the gas costs $49,000. A difference of $17,000 minus taxes. $17,000 buys a lot of gas.
Another problem is the battery cost, looking at these few years in electric car usage, most likely you need to replace the battery in ten years
Or you could just have the battery pack refurbished, like the UK owner of a 10 year old Nissan Leaf, who took his car to Cleveleys Electric Vehicles in Gloucestershire. They carried out a battery pack refurbishment, which took 4 hours. The cost was £500. Cleveleys posted a the video of the refurb on RUclips, so that those who felt you *had* to buy a new battery pack, could discover that was not the case......
Many thanks for such an useful video!
Would be interesting to see a comparison: EV vs Diesel too. I've got E61 (520d) that would make this 228 miles using up just over a quarter of the entire tank (range always drops significantly slower from full than later from half tank). OK, half performance only (177BHP), but an easy 53mpg in return. And the car doesn't feel that slow. By the way, great video 👍👍👍
They died at Diesel Gate.
My EV cost me around 4cents per mile, about 3cents per km. No diesel is getting close to that.
After watching this video i can see why people are being mislead into staying away from EV models.
The video is showing a real life situation but at the same time not telling viewers all the right information.
So let me explain (other may have in other comment but i have not read any of them).
Like the video states if you are solo charging from home then yes hands down will be cheaper, BUT
when driving on motorways/long journeys and using the fast super charges it will be more expensive BUT,
with the correct research you will quickly realise no one pays the expensive rates at the charges.
These are many companies with a monthly subscription which lowers the chargers.
I have a VW ID4 and i use a company called ELLI WE CHARGE, for £9.99 a month, lowers the 0.69p or higher charge down to
0.28p, so now that cheaper then charging at home right now at 0.35p/0.40p.
Would love to see another video from which car telling people that truth and to give people other options.
@@carloperna2769 agreed, my EV cost me around 5cents per mile, naturally i try and recharge as much at home at night when electrity is sround 10-12cents per kwh. If i have to take a long rd trip or tow
I take my truck runs in diesel. But 90% of our daily driving is by our ev. Id have to be mad to daily my truck, cost around 40 cents mile in diesel
I agree, nothing wrong with Euro6 diesel engines. Huge economy and range.
Very good test - interesting results for sure. It would have been interesting to have thrown a PHEV into the test too just to be even more comprehensive.
PHEV’s are only efficient in small journeys once the battery is empty when on a long journey the engine kicks in and you are essentially carrying dead weight which doesn’t make them any where near as efficient as claimed. You are better off with a HEV.
@@itechtalk03 yes, I completely understand that but there must still be people that do occasional long journeys in a PHEV that want to understand the long range economy figures. We don't live in an ideal world.
It focuses exclusively on the worst case scenario for EVs: Road trips using the most expensive charging network out there and even resorting to intentonally not use energy conservation methods on the road trip, even though they're available. And it totally ignores maintenance costs. How is that a good test?
@@berndborte8214 It's a good test, because comparing going slowly in an EV, worried about your range, is not a comparison to driving a petrol car at the speed limit with no range anxiety. They compared the most expensive chargers to the most expensive petrol, so that seems fair. In real life, you'd fill your car at the local station at a lower cost, just like you'd charge your EV at home, so the journey there would be cheaper for the EV. However, once you are in Leeds, you would find a supermarket for cheap petrol, but the EV driver would be stuck with a fast charger.
I'd like an EV, but whilst charging costs are currently 85p Kwh, it just doesn't make sense.
Regular gas has a green handle, but in the States green is the diesel! Someone on vacation could really mess something up--I guess I could probably mess something up with the driving on the other side of the road too.
My next car will be an EV but with the caveat that we are a two car household and the other car is a diesel. My biggest concern with a total switch to EV's is not the cars but the infrastructure and the fact that the electricity generation industry would become even more vital than it is today. It would literally have control over almost every aspect of our lives. Right now if the power goes I am limited in what I can do both at home and work but at least I have the ability to remain mobile. If all transport becomes electrified then even that goes. If the current crisis shows us anything it is that energy companies are quite happy to indulge in a bit of price gouging when the opportunity arises.
Same logic I'll be taking... If electric cars do become affordable on the second hand market will get one but long journeys will still have to be a diesel affair
We switched from 1 petrol and 1 Diesel to 2 EVs. Total fuel savings £350 per month. The savings over 10 years pays for one of the 2 cars completely. This only works with off peak home charging. I totally agree that anyone without a driveway will struggle to see any benefit in EV ownership.
B58 is remarkably efficient. A monster of an engine.
A monster fossil burner from the last millenium. Outdated, inefficient, expensive, stinking.
😂 at £2 per litre
@@wolfgangpreier9160 but arent EVs just the same? I mean really? They just dont do their dirty business on their own doorstep. Instead they leave their fossil burning in the vicinity of the local powerplant (in most cases) whilst still requiring the use of an even more finite resource? It doesnt feel like the giant leap that its supposed to be, to me.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 who hurt you pal 😂
@@SteYoung Yes, Electric motors burn fossil ressources which we will never get back, produce much poisonous gases that hurt us, our children, our plants, the animals everything, are dirty and loud, must be maintained regularly and cost much too much to produce and destroy.
Or did i just describe FOSSIL BURNING MONSTERS?
We do not burn any fossil ressources to generate our electricity. Of course some still have to do because we still do not have enough Lithium, Nickel, Managenese dug out of the ground. But with every battery cell it less fossil fuel must be pumped and burned forever.
Battery cells can be recycled. Burned fossil ressources not.
but what about maintenance and service? how do those compare?
Try that same test in winter and you will loose half of that range. My father bought that same 208 electric car last year, had it 3 weeks then returned it got his miney back and bought another diesel instead. I was with him when he had the car. He was lucky to get more than 130 miles of range and that was driving it steady and not using the heater only for a few mins at a time, or the range would have been even worse. While yes it would be cheaper to charge at home, the main concern was the range. And when you are out if you want to go any distance charging is an issue as not many of the chargers are fast chsrgers and if they are they are very expensive. His diesel Peugeot gets 4 to 5 times the range on one fill up.
This is why my BMW i3 REx now tops up with petrol on journeys like these. Running it via cheap overnight charging on more local journeys is
honestly PHEV/range extenders are the way to go. having a Kia PHEV and an id4, the smaller Kia is honestly the car we prefer to take on in town and long distances. middle distances (~200 is miles in the US north east) the ID4 is preferable.
With the new prices for electicity, in Eastern Europe charging costs the same as a full tank of petrol. Add the more expensive cost of the car.
Not true
clear and easy to view presentation, and honest for what it was. clearly the real benefit is for home-chargers with short journeys to make
How long did you stand there waiting for the batteries to charge
I would most probably keep my plug in hybrid.
Charging at home with cheapest price, having 70 - 80km per charge is more than enough in town.
For longer trips I have hybrid mix, but mostly on gasoline which in my case has 6 l/100km consumption.
Best of both worlds and since I do not travel long distance so often, 90% of my driving is electric.
I fuel up gasoline once in 6 months.
I guess it's rather individual who should go for what based upon needs and use case
I have one of these too! Its the best thing ever! Best of both worlds!
out of interest what PHEV do you have and how much did the home electric power point cost ?
@@wokeupandsmellthecoffee214
I have Lynk & Co 01, with 17,6 kWh battery. It is super efficient since electric motor is built in the 7DCT gearbox which helps to recuperate a lot and it also works perfectly with ICE in hybrid mode.
It costs me around 4800 SEK/Month (swedish crowns) as a company car leasing, otherwise the car costs 460 000 SEK.
According to WLTP electric only range is 69km, however I've achieved around 70-75km during the summer, in couple of rare occasions 82km, during winter at -1 Celsius range was down at around 50km.
I've heard some complaints that people had only 35km of pure electric range during coldest winter days but I don't what driving style was that...
Charger itself did not cost me actually, since my apartment garage has chargers included.
However, housing association charges 200 SEK/Month for PHEVs and 300 SEK/Month for BEVs to cover investment and infrastructure cost. Whereas cost of used electricity is super cheap at 1,25 SEK/kWh.
That leads to around 3 to 5 times less cost per month in my monthly driving compared to my previous ICE golf.
Plug in hybrids are the way to go in my opinion. Charge at home for those small journeys, petrol and electric for the longer.
I have had one for a over a year now and cannot fault it does what I want and as you say charge at home for the short runs and the petrol engine does the longer ones. as for this net zero nonsense which will not be met anyway they should have promoted small engine cars with a electric motor so could be used in city areas but also capable of long trips.
I am not sure about those either. For shorter trips alright, but longer trips once your battery is out you are basically burning more fuel to carry the weight of that battery which is doing nothing.
@@AvinashSingh-jv7uq when the main battery runs out, with the smaller battery, it continues simply as an hybrid car. No dead weight bro. I know this because I own the Toyota prius 2020 phev. I compared the mpg of my prius with my wife's vw 2L diesel car, even on motorway, the prius out shines the diesel. I have also driven a merc eqa 250, I know how Fast the miles/kwh of electric cars drop on motorway but most efficient within the city compared with Ice and hybrid cars.
I am living in Quebec, here if you charge only at home the cost with EV is about 8 times less than petrol. If 95% of time home charging is enough it is easy to figure out the advantage.
The purchase price of an EV isn't 8 times less.
i have bought Renault Zoe 41 kWh, 3 months ago, with my petrol car, I was spending on petrol 600 euros per month, coz Im working in 85 km from home, with electricity, im only charging at home, 13 cents per 1 kWh, im spending 78-82 euros per month, huge difference.
Not really representative of most journeys as you'd normally charge at home for 1/4 - 1/3 the cost of Ionity.
Surely the EV would be fully charged after overnight charge on cheap rate electric .
It might not be. Most off peak tariffs allow for 4hrs of off peak time. At a charging rate of 7.4kW you will get approx 30kWh of charge. This gives you a hard limit of 100-120 miles per day at cheap rate.
@@IanMcc1000 charge it over two nights then? It’s not that often people drive more than 120 miles in a day anyway is it.
@@steveb951 Yeah that's the obvious solution. Of course that sort of mileage is "edge case" territory, but if you have 2 EVs than the hard limit is halved. I'm speaking from personal experience not as a diesel owning doomsayer.
Not everyone has a driveway for overnight charging
@@ibrahimfarooq9233 not everyone has a petrol station forecourt in their front garden. Eventually the charging infrastructure will vastly improve, charging times will get far quicker and battery range longer. In China they have cars with replaceable batteries which can be switched out for a fully chargers one in 5 mins. The technology will get improve in time. 2030 is still some way off and petrol and diesel cars will be on ten road for years until we move over to alternatives by which point nuclear fusion power stations should be online. It’s w exciting don’t be hating EV’s because you read some nonsense in the daily Mail.
People need to learn that every case is a different case and that it is not "one size fits all" but that it depends on your particular case of use.
If I had a nice house and used my car to go to work 20-50km away, electric would be better.
If I did that but occasionally whrnt further, then phev would be better.
If I drive occasionally, live on a flat and need to drive bigger distances from time to time, than petrol or hybrid is the way to go.
And that is way I keep my diesel, I live in a flat and pretty much only use the car for long drives on the motorway.
It is not a case of "this is the solution" it is a case of which solution is better for you specific use case.
Quick question: Why the speed on the electric car are blurred sometimes? Did you went above the speed limit to increase the consumption? Asking for a friend
The video proves what I’ve known for sometime; that if home charging isn’t an option, EVs are just not a viable option. Further, even with home charging, they are really only suitable, as yet, as smaller city cars.
LOL why do you think the guy selling you electricity is going to charge you less then the guy selling you gas. Charge at home when you can. That is where most people do most of their driving.
@@danharold3087 home charging is not an option for many of us in London
@@ianelliott229 I tried to say that. Could have been more plain. If your goal is to cut pollution it still makes sense to have an EV even if it costs you a bit more. The few people I know that work in London drive in on scooters. None of these 'gems' doing these cherry picked comparisons consider the enviroment. It does not fit their narrative.
So I drove my totally unsuitable “City Car” from Gloucestershire to Inverness and back. Not quite sure why you see that as a problem? How many Cities require a car with 300 miles of range from a single charge?
@@danharold3087 While you yourself will be cutting pollution, it appears the amount generated by the manufacture of said vehicle will take you many years to break even over say a petrol. Probably longer than you will even own the vehicle. So overall you are not actually benefitting the planet at all.
Lets be honest, it was only the crazy low BIK that made people go down the EV route in the last few years. Equivalent EV's are significantly more expsive in the 1st place, and now the unit cost has shot up they arent as cheap to run. I have a 330e at the moment and the range is barely 20 miles at this time of year. But i'll be sticking to a PHEV next time again, the range on them is getting better and they charge at a faster rate, so much more usable.
Nope, EV live much longer and have much lower maintenance cost because they have only very few moving parts. That makes their cost of ownership including the buying price over the complete lifespan signifcantly lower.
I had a 330e and it was fantastic. I regret selling it. It was the best of both worlds. With sticky tires and a full charge I could keep up with the Porsche Club at my local track! The extra shove from the electric motor really made a difference. It covered tons of miles with ease as well. I am with you on the PHEV idea. I live in a very cold climate and only get the ranges stated on the sticker about 4 weeks out of the year so petrol is a must for me no matter how I try to make it work. -25f cuts my range by half, more if I don't want to wear snowmobile gear and use pocket handwarmers to stay warm.
you were lucky to have the time to wait for charger availability. Lack of chargers due to cable theft, out-of-order chargers or slow chargers, the costs of coffee snacks and of course lost time, often in bad weather. Good for the local commute but not for distance travel if you are a business person.