Why would you even consider sandbagging the petrol? The ev is heavier because its an ev. Thats just part of the pie. Thats also why it has 140kg less payload.
It's because EV technology is inherently inferior, hence the need for state subsidies, mandates, penalizing ICE, and the outrageous test here where ballast was added to the superior ICE car.
@@B0r0 Absolute rubbish. Apart from most reasonably sized ev's being north of two tonnes you can't seriously compare something like a Renault Zoe to an X5 and expect people to cross shop them. Then what about the ev SUV's? Or do you think people are going to buy a tiny ev instead of a massive ice SUV? At every single level of vehicle the ev is heavier - sometimes a bit heavier, sometimes a lot heavier and the ones which aren't a lot heavier are usually very limited on range. On top of all that there is the question of ability. Towing capacity, payload, range, cost to buy, cost to insure and all the rest are way worse on an ev so you can't even really compare them like for like - in reality its the ev that needs to be the even bigger car to compete. For example a Zoe (I'm going from 2019 when I had one) is basically an electric Clio but has far less range, far lower payload, no towing ability and costs as close as makes no difference twice as much in base trims. Even the Megane electric can't match the Clio on usability which makes your point backwards at best.
@@B0r0 That is stupid and only works if you compare an SUV to a smaller car, an electric SUV is heavier than the equivalent ICE vehicle. Australians wont change the way they drive, just as many people will still drive SUV sized cars electric or ICE.
@kareembaba7498 that's in addition to their over priced servicing. My brother had a new 3 series that had an oil leak after 2 years and BMW couldn't fix the problem. So he did the gold old spray degreaser under the engine and sold the car to a lucky buyer 😆
I disagree with adding weight to Joe's car. Also with comparing super long range this model vs super efficient that model cars. This video showed me exactly what I wanted to see. Identical cars driven the same way, on the same road in the same conditions. Electric vs Petrol.
It shows that an EV at an increaased weight is much more efficient than petrol. 66kw vs 20kw. But then there is the cost per kw for quick chargers though :(.
No weight was added to Joe's car but then again we honestly can't say it's identical same cars when there is 600kg difference. Even with such a huge weight difference it did a good job.
@@tomdesmet735there’s also the huge price difference when buying it in the first place. You’d never make up the difference. People raving about how they can recharge from home for nothing through solar, um are they forgetting how much the system cost them to set up in the first place and if you don’t have a battery and charging at night when you get home from work you aren’t charging for free
Fantastic video guys, thanks for making my trip so😮 awesome (including coming last in the karts!) 😂 Interesting results, for the record, the older G11 730d would have covered both directions on a single tank! See you legends again soon hopefully ❤️👊🏽
I like your test. I'd like to see the comparison total cost of ownership / 15k per year: ICE v. EV. Most commonly owned models in each bracket, then do a road trip with those numbers included.
The BMW is nt deigned from the ground up as an EV that's why its 600 odd Killos heavier the Model S is only a little heavier at 2250 kg and its the same sized car
So as a summary: EV Model: BMW i7 M70 EV Vehicle Price: $344,900 EV Energy Cost: $131.92 EV Wait Time: 2hr 8min ICE Model: BMW 740i ICE Vehicle Price: $272,900 ICE Energy Cost: $117.88 ICE Wait Time: 0hr 6min Total Trip Distance: 873km In summary: - EV costs ~70k more to buy - ~12% more to run - ~2000% longer to refill When compared to the equivalent ICE vehicle.
Sure 12% more to run if you only use Level 3 DC Chargers. But AC charging in Aus is way cheaper than Petrol. Easily 40% less than Fuel for the same mileage.
That $70,000 purchase difference will take a long time to cover against fuel and service cost differential… say it’s $5,000 cheaper a year for the EV for fuel and maintenance … you only need to keep it 14 years to break even against the gas burner, likelihood you’ll keep a car 14 years about zero
@@toddalcock6879 Wealthy drivers don't complain running costs as they care for prestige and comfy. So I think it's more practical in comparing average EV (Tesla or BYD) with affordable ICE (Toyota, Honda) price between 30 to 50k.
The charging time was that long because the journalist chose to rely solely on Evie chargers when he knew the Optus network was down. He could have created a free Tesla charging account in 2 minutes and used any of the available Tesla Superchargers. Also, he chose the least efficient EV available for this comparison. My Tesla can do Sydney to Melbourne for $60.
it also costs zero in maintenance and about 9x less to fuel if you charge at home. So in 200,000km ( which the i7 has warranty for and the combustion one has 100,000km warranty.) you would spend over 120,000$ in fuel alone and another 50,000$ in maintenance 😂 Yeah,keep your ice.
Do you drive 900km in one go sitting on top of a bucket or toilet seat and eat nothing for entire duration? I thought so... you charge when you eat and take a break..
Things may look different If you perform the same test during holidays. I noticed people had to wait long hours to recharge at these charging stations.
Where did you get 2 hours from? It was 1hr at the first stop (to charge a battery almost 2x the size of a Tesla) and he didn't need to do a second stop at all, he just did it while he got a coffee.
Every EV owner knows you don't charge over 80% when on a road trip because the last 20% takes about as long as the first 80%. Was this done on purpose for dramatic affect?
@@Juddyd1990 I mean an EV is never going to be more efficient at highway speeds. Anyone who regularly does long highway drives would never consider an EV. They should do a comparison of inner city and suburban driving efficiency. Factor in some mains power or even home solar charging and the equation flips.
Brilliant to see Joe on your videos!! There’s something satisfying about seeing a RUclipsr you watch pop up in a video from another RUclipsr across the world 🗺️
Glad you called out the average speed traps Paul as also here in South Australia, they have them on a lot of highways and I definitely think they do more harm than good, encouraging bad driving and inattentiveness.
I agree. I would be battling to get under 7 in my 2.5L petrol car that weighs 600kg less than the BM. My whole of life average is 8L per 100km and that's with about 95% rural use.
That was a big takeaway from the video for me too but he didn’t go through the engine specs unfortunately, I assumed it would have something like a 5L twin turbo V8 but I have no idea in this latest generation.
It would have been a lot quicker to only charge to about 80% and "top up" a couple of times. You should never fully charge to 100% in an EV on a road trip, as the charge rate above 80% is VERY slow. At least charge enough to get you to the next charger. There are a lot of fast DC chargers between Sydney and Melbourne, definitely no need to fully charge each time.
Agree. I have an EV and charging to 100% when you are on the road just wastes time unless the next charger will be seriously testing the range. From my experience, it is better to stop more frequently for shorter periods (I need to stretch my legs at least every 2 hours).
Yep, best to fully charge when you get to your final destination for free like an Air BnB house like i did lol or at home if you have a LFP EV battery. Charging slows after 80%, it's like comparing a parking lot when it's 80% full it takes longer to find a parking spot like electrons do, and slower again closer to 100%
Yes, that’s correct, plus you can charge from home to begin with and that is substantially cheaper. They never mentioned that fuel is also going to be more expensive as time goes on.
@streddaz especially with all these wars happening in the middle east and Ukraine and stupid pirates hijacking cargo ships that maybe transporting fuel. It will have a flow on affect with fuel prices going up.
@@leisuresuitlaz1710 the other thing that isn’t often talked about is sovereign energy supply. Australia makes all its own electricity but imports almost all petroleum products, and they come from the OPEC countries. Australia only has 3 weeks of fuel reserves if for some reason supply was cut off.
It always amazes me that people doing these comparisons say that normal people would stop every 2 hours for a break before continuing. Everyone I know would probably stop every 4 hours or so depending on fuel stations. If your mate had of kept going after purchasing a sandwich and drink and had them in the car like most people, he would have arrived 3 to 3.5 hrs before you! Stopping when you did, didn't show the real affect of having to stop and charge the car
yep, by the looks they stayed together waiting for the charge, no way are 99 percent of people are going to hang around and wait. They will just want to get there. Stupid comparison test if you ask me.
I am just a bit confused about the 100% charging stop. Sure this wasn't about the trip duration, but in a more normal case you would only charge to like 60 to 80% and not spend all that time to go to 100% and do one stop more. In terms of energy used this of course doesn't make a difference. But my real point would be that energy prices and energy used in total. I am not sure about oil in Australia and where it is coming from, but I would guess that this would also go up in cost over time due to oil being a resource with and end date and emissions that most of us would like to not have anymore. So in terms of energy used in kWh the petrol one is at 56.16l * 8.5kwh (per liter) so 477kwh for the trip compared to the 203kwh for the electric car. That is quite the difference in energy used to move that car with a few humans.
I think charging to 100% is defeating the benefit of an EV. Obviously you're trying to get across that ICE still has a place, yep we get that but a good amount of EV users know that you charge short charge often which is more efficient and saves time. And if you're taking kids on a road trip they would enjoy breaks more often.
Exactly (Paul owns a Tesla and knows this). We did the exact same trip from Melbourne to Sydney in our Tesla Model 3 LR only 2 weeks ago. Only needed 2 charge stops (Albury and Yass) charging to around 80%. Total charge time 1 hour. Tesla Supercharging costs were $64. Tesla M3LR weighs 1800kg vs 2700kg for the BMW I7 they both have similar ranges. I was a long time owner of BMW but their EVs aren't compelling and this video proves their inefficiency along with bloated prices and weight.
@CarExpert. Interesting that the i7 used exactly 200KWh & the 740 used 56.16lt @ 8.9KWh/lt so 500KWh of energy for the same journey. So the EV was 2.5 times more efficient than the petrol.
So when is the creator going to address the obvious bias in this test? What bias you ask? Well, the biggest one is that the 'petrol' car is a hybrid. They've also chosen a very inefficient EV, which will take longer to charge. Then the initial charge/fill wasn't included, which would typically done at much cheaper home rates for the EV while the hybrid would pay the rate it always does. I'm guessing they sought out 50kw chargers based on the slow charging time - on a 350kw charger I'd take 18 minutes to do 10-80% and I'd need a total of 45 minutes or less charging for this trip in a Kia EV6. It's amazing what the results look like when you decide ahead of time what you want them to be. Now redo the same test, but include the initial charge/fill and a month's normal use.
In my opinion, I think car manufacturers should focus more on making hybrid cars. This idea of jumping from the internal combustion engine straight to EVs is quite a problem. These things are still expensive, and the charging speed is not there yet. 😑 Range exiety is a real issue no matter how you look at it. You need to be mindful of how you put your foot on the acceleration pedal, especially if you're doing a long trip. All this will be solved by PHEVs, best of both worlds 🌎
I agree! Or even work on sustainable fuels like Formula 1 and Porsche are doing. Not to mention on hot days your range decreases too. My mate has a Tesla and he said on a hot summer day he will lose 100km of range.
Hybrid was just too slowly adopted, i was a fan too.. EV satisfies 90% of local/daily driving with huge savings. Petrol and diesel will have their place IMO for our towing and long haulers for years.
@@SCELO_MYEZA. I know, but that’s what he told me. Not sure what part of the world you’re from but here in Western Australia it’s not uncommon to get consecutive 40+ days
Hey just one thing. As both cars started at 100% that means you still needed to purchase petrol for the 7 series whereas the i7 would have charged at home. Charging at home is always cheaper than charging at fast chargers and much cheaper per mile covered than petrol. So that should also be taken into account.
All I would add is there is Tesla and there is everything else. They are not the same thing. For example BMW still lock you into inexplicable and pricey main dealer "servicing" to maintain EV warranty. if you really cannot stomach a Tesla (their supercharging is way cheaper, always working and at more locations) then just stick with ICE.
You don't even need solar. Public charging is potentially several times more expensive than charging off the grid, depending on which public chargers you use and what your home tariff is.
Don't forget to add on the 30-50k worth of panels, batteries and charging infrastructure you'll need at your home to do that, that's if you own your home and have an off street driveway or garage to charge in!
I also did a roadtrip Melbourne to Sydney with two cars, one being a BMW M340i, the other a Volvo XC40 Twin Recharge. The BMW required one fuel stop, the Volvo was an absolute pain which felt like we were always waiting for it to charge, literally added hours onto the trip, it also cost much more in "refuelling" than the BMW. The Volvo has since been sold. While I believe EV's would make fantastic cars for senior citizens who just use the car to get to the shops a couple of times a week, they definitely are not for everybody. If you plan on doing any highway driving, taking the family away for a long weekend or just like your car to have a bit of soul you will be very dissapointed with an EV.
Would be interested to see a similar video that involves city driving and charging at home. Something far more people actually do than this cross country drive.
Agreed Majority of people would/should charge at home and the cost of driving is significantly reduced by thousands of the year of ownership!!!! They need to report on this
Good comparison. two important things overlooked. What will be the resale value in 5 years and secondly what is the replacement cost for batteries which could happen in 5 to 10 years. Having said that al BMERS have discusting resale anyway.
20:48 - actually some of the energy would have been reused even on Joes car. BMW's efficient dynamics means when you're off throttle it loads the alternator up to add charge to the battery so the a/c and so on would have been mostly powered by that on the last leg which is partly why it was so efficient.
@@siraff4461 Oh okay cool i guess, maybe given enough speed turning the engines via the wheels it should be enough to spin the alternator enough to power the ac compresor and fans.
@@JoseMariArceta I'm not sure exactly how much it can recoup but its not insignificant. In my experience ED cars tend to do about 5% better on fuel then non ED ones all else being the same. I say alternator but its really a starter/generator and again its a decent sized unit. Stop/start is noticably smoother on ED cars too. Its interesting stuff and worth taking a few minutes to look into. Not groundbreaking but it makes tehm a bit less wasteful and genuinely helps.
A very limited comparison. Long, long trip and no opportunity to charge at home. I would prefer a comparison with the cars doing 1000 - 1500 km per over say 10 - 14 days with maximum single trips say 200-250 km. This better describes my usage pattern and no doubt many others as well. Cars can then be charged on home system at 27c - 33 c per kWh. EVs would be way cheaper to run. Service costs lower too. Do this comparison, please.
For those viewers who are put off considering getting an EV by the charging time, it is important to know that the last part of a full charge, from about 80% to 100%, is very slow. A Better Route planner recommended a two stop strategy for this drive in this EV, charging from 33%-74% in Albury and 10%-65% in Yass, for a total charging time of 42 mins. The cost can be high for road trips, but if you stay in places with free charging, you can wake up to a full battery. And at home, you can charge from solar for "free" (or the cost of forgoing the pitiful feed in tariff rate).
Time, cost, needing to plan a trip instead of doing things spontaneously, not to mention the complete failure of the entire network due to reliance on mobile telecommunications networks... This is why hydrogen needs to remain an option of development, it's why right now you are better off buying hybrid or plug in hybrids if you actually are an active traveller. Potentially if your just wanting a car to driving with its range, then electric is still good, but I'm uncertain if it's ever going to be a future that we all move to, more and more I think we need a different solution that doesn't require charging points.
Or you could just not bother with any if that and stick to an ICE car that doesn't need anymore planning. Seriously, the more complicated things get the higher the chances of something going wrong along the way.
@@Blight-fp3vt We are still in the early days of electrification. Battery technology will continue to improve, with better range, faster charging and cheaper price. I'm sure in the early days of ICE vehicles, people would say "My horse is quieter, cheaper, doesn't need petrol" etc etc.
Had a 730d xdrive been available it could have covered 1448km on one tank. Diesel is still king for fuel efficiency. Until Ev's can match that in distance and are cheaper to charge they simply can not compete.
Is it expensive to charge an EV at a British public charging point? Here in Australia they did a road trip from Sydney to Melbourne, using a BMW EV and its petrol equivalent. Turned out $20 cheaper in petrol than charging at a public charging point. And quicker. A 9 hour trip in the petrol version took 2 hours longer in the EV.
This felt like a test designed to demonstrate the answer they wanted. Let's pick two cars that barely anyone can afford. Let’s pick one of the most inefficient EVs possible and then let's test on a highway road trip (that most people don’t do very often) where ICE is at its most efficient and EVs at their least efficient. Maybe do it next time using Hyundai Kona or Kia Niro that people can afford and are more efficient (both ICE and EV). As a comparison I have had a Tesla Model 3 RWD for nearly a year and done 10,500kms and never had to use a fast charger. It's cost me about $250. Let's see an ICE do that.
- Exactly, a well reasoned civil opinion - and a budget decision... (I think they have done it before and people complained that the cars were not identical, an EV simply isn't identical to an ICE car), you understand - 10500km is a very short yearly mileage (so after - say - 5 years figure out your total transport cost and work out if a taxi might be cheaper??). (Even with totally free charging (sunk solar + battery), my transport needs can't be met by a single EV, and registering and insuring 2 vehicles doesn't "break even" - the maths tells the energy story.)
Good video! I am very impressed you made it from Melbourne to Tarcutta (my favourite stop of the Hume) on a single charge. I would have chickened out somewhere near Holbrook for a comfort stop. Was interesting to see how similar the cost was between the two vehicles. What I don't understand is presenting 2 hours of charging including a 1 hour stop going from 2% to 100% as a realistic experience. As you briefly mentioned going from 80% -> 100% can be much much slower than going from 20% -> 80% If you did want to compare the total time of the road trip between EV and ICE you should have stopped more often, for much shorter periods. You could easily complete that same trip with more frequent stops with MUCH shorter charging times - even including the time taken to exit the Hume and get back on. Based on numbers, maybe 15min stop in Glenrowan, 25min stop in Tarcutta, and another 15min stop in Sutton Forest - instead of the 1 hour 7mins at Tarcutta + the charging at the end. Since this video was filmed additional high speed chargers have opened up on the Hume, thinking of the ones at the Glenrowan BPs (both directions).
It should be added here too that the electric version is more than $35,000 more than the petrol version. If you are paying the cheap electricity of 15c it will take 28 years to make up the difference, but even with solar it will take 20 years to make up the difference, as long as you don't include the price that the solar system cost you.
@@zoltrix7779 I don't think your irrational hatred of large American trucks is a sound basis for any conclusion other than you think you're the boss of everyone else's choices. Your petty preferences are irrelevant to this discussion.
@@einfelder8262 Its not irrational, it's logical, why would we create larger parking spot thus increase the price of creating construction so people can "choose" these things more easily? Living in a democracy doesn't mean unlimited freedom to take a shit in everyone's face. The fact is that for 99pc of buyers the American full size truck is vanity item and offers no great purpose, even more so than a regular dual cab.
The crazy thing here is the ice vehicle is using 98ron premium, having a car with 91ron standard as the fuel type would save a little bit more. We also have to consider the cost to charge the vehicle to begin with using a home charger, so that $131 charge up could be about 150-160~$ in reality. Although these cars obviously are not basic point to point cars, so a comparison using an even more realistic family car would be great as well. 10/10 content.
If you were a normal family and lived your life around the suburbs the EV is so far ahead its not funny. Occasional road trips are then only around the price as a ICE vehicle. But all the other times you didn't need to visit the fuel station.
@@zoltrix7779This is true, but unfortunately if you buy an EV equivalent of an ICE vehicle it usually costs way more, and it takes years to recoup the costs. Unless you really only drive in the city, then an EV would make sense. The best choice I feel would be a hybrid non plugin equivalent instead.
@@JoseMariArceta you know the BMW 740i is a Hybrid which acts as a range extender right? they conveniently left that one out. not to mention they picked the most expensive charger that does 300kw charging rate but the i7 can only do 190kw. Paul also failed to mention the I7 comes with free 5 yrs charging? If a proper test is done they would of picked the most efficient full petrol (not a hybrid) mid size sedan and put it against the most efficient EV mid size sedan such as the model 3 charging it on the Tesla net work.
@@davec110Well. kinda. The 740i is a "mild hybrid", where it uses a small electric battery to run things like turning over the car, the start/stop system, and maybe a tiny bit of help at low speeds. It can recover some energy from regen braking, but and it can help get maybe an extra km per liter. Not a huge range extension. And the free charging doesn't matter. It's a test done with similar cars to test out differences as closely as possible. The ancillary bonuses aren't really relevant to that. IMO the bigger complaint is that the i7 is just less efficient than lots of other EVs on the market. But yea, point taken that there are ways that make electric vehicles practical for average families while we're still in an early adoption phase of the technology. It always seems silly to me when people complain about the new technology that isn't as fully developed and mature as the centuries-old ech that came before it haha.
I have had a Tesla Model Y for almost a year. The No.1 learning I found is that EV are designed for daily urban drives, not ideal for the long distance drive. They are awesome that you don't need to worry about charging them, especially if you have solar panels at home. However, it is quite a different/awful experience when you need to constantly check the battery level. Your comparison is awesome, but it also might have proved the point that we need to utilise our vehicles differently than we used to. Maybe not to use an EV for long-distance driving but fly or rent a diesel car.
Yeah good point, im hoping new battery tech will save the day though. I believe it will get there, ranges of 1200km would see most people's range anxiety disappear. Faster charging will also help and more chargers as more EV's come onto the roads.
I'm a petrol head and I'll never sell my V8 but i can see what the future holds with ev. And if you look at how far EVs have come even in the last 5 years that will only continue to improve. You can't compare an ICE car and an EV and say one is the outright winner considering ICE cars have had over 100 years of evolution and progress to get where they are and EVs have almost caught them in about 20 years of focused development. The charging network is still no where near where petrol stations are in terms of locations etc. All of that is growing everyday. I think those that are the die hard petrol lovers are the ones that talk the loudest and that's fine. They can keep their cars (like me) but for the majority of car owners who don't care about cars like us, they will gladly take an ev they can charge with their solar or at work. Change is different and scary but it's usually for the better. But it also needs time to be perfected. Keen to see this happen again in another 5 years.
Hey Paul, what about the price difference between the two vehicles and costs to maintain? Did I read something recently about a rapid increase in the prices for power supply at these fast charges? (Assuming to pay for infrastructure required to move the whole nation to electricity?)
Yes per increase in charging, see what is happening in the UK as it will happen here as well a bit further down the track. Tyre wear due to the extra weight, and higher insurance premiums, and greater depreciation make if far less attractive to me. Wonder how these 2 would go towing my Jayco, I definately know which one there will win easily.
That is a major issue, we already see electricity costs going up. Eventually you will pay as much for home charging an EV as petrol costs now. Governments everywhere will completely balance out revenue they loose from ICE vehicles going away. The bigger picture is electricity will cost a lot more for everyone not just EV owners.
These are short term problems. Tyres may wear slightly more, but are much easier to maintain and replace than a combustion engine. EVs depreciate because people are buying new ones and the technology in them is improving at such a rapid pace. These are good things, actually. It's only been a few years and the market is already taking huge leaps forward and solving big problems quite quickly. If you're worried.. you can always just lease instead. EVs have legitimate downsides compared to petrol, but seems like we're stretching here. Electricity costs fluctuate, but no it's stupid to think that electricity costs will rise on a straight line forever. Petrol prices jumped up by how many multiples in the 70s? Evened out over time, though, didn't it? There are lots of ways to make electricity, which means costs will come down with investment (especially if EVs are helping to balance grid-scale loads with bidirectional charging). There is only one way to get gas - and we can't make any more of it. And remember that if and as the dominance of petrol cars begins to fade that the infrastructure supporting them will age and become less prevalent - ie: become more expensive.
@@69firthy And when you add the highly increased repair costs on EVs compared with ICEs and often longer to much longer waiting time to get your EV repaired, any sane person understands that buying an EV is total lunacy for a person with an average or lower income. And it is not even good for the planet to buy an EV compared with an ICE. The total negative effects on the planet per year for the life span of an EV compared with an Ice is totally insane. So many love to talk about the CO2 when using the car, but they do not want to talk about how much CO2 that is produced during the production of the cars and how much other pollution that is done during the making of the cars and after they have been scrapped, because that do not fit their agendas.
@@Cyrribrae Let us have a reality check here. First of all can you be 100% sure that the government will increase the taxes on buying and using EVs to balance their books. Secondly is there a VERY big reason for why no one has increased the electricity production much yet, and that is because the price of electricity at the moment do not make it profitable enough for them to care to invest in it. They will only do it if the electricity prices get high enough for them to get a good profit from investing it. Nothing suggests that it will be any cheaper to produce electricity. Most likely it will become more expensive because the cheapest ways to produce electricity by now is by using fossil fuels and either the government will make it illegal to use fossil fuels to produce electricity or most likely make it more expensive as that is better for their books. Large scale electricity production from non fossil fuel ways is also in reality very expensive, unless it is nuclear and most people are not exactly big fans of that idea. If the electricity prices continue to increase as they most likely will, then that will be an incentive for investors to invest in non fossil fuel electricity production. So, you will get plenty electricity for your EV, but you can be 100% sure that the electricity will be more expensive than it is today. One thing you are 100% correct about, is that it makes total sense to lease an EV instead of buying one. The value of used EVs will only drop faster and faster as the speed of improvements on new EVs increases.
Couldn't understand 15km per l for the ice..tut tut. At 65 cperkwhr I usually say an ice at 10km per l costs 190c and the ev cost 2kwhr, say 130c. The hybrid removes that difference. Still the hybrid put 56kg of petrol burned to about 120kg CO2 into the atmosphere which after all is the main issue. I have done 9500km and spent about $100 @ high speed chargers and all the rest as solar. No CO2 and about 1600kwhr at 10c lost solar income.
It would be interesting to run a test where you have ICE, Hybrid and EV (preferably same car but that's hard to come by as you've said here), and do a city dweller's week or fortnight where you do the same commute for a period around the city simulating a workers commute. Both of these tests have been long-form highway driving so a different style of test to compare results would be great.
Hybrid wouldn’t offer much in this setting. Long drives aren’t their use case. Engine would just kick in and you’re pushing a heavier version of the ICE version.
@@ablet85 Have you ever driven a hybrid? During long drives it still saves fuel, just not as much as around the town. Like an EV when you go downhill hybrid turns of the ICE and recharges batteries. When you drive through small towns - it turns of the ICE.
@Kashchey1 I love your reply to ablet85. Only people who have never driven hybrid or are EVangelists thar think hybrids are not efficient on the motorway. I know Toyota prius phev is a fuel sipper on highways and in the city because I own one.
I was quite disappointed on how they said this (especially on 7 News). They could’ve mentioned and used the benefit of the 5 year Chargefox subscription that comes with the i7 (largest charging network in Australia) and would pay $0 like I do when I travel in my iX or e-tron from Sydney to Brisbane and back. Also when they mentioned charging time at fast charger, you don’t always have to charge to 100% at every stop your making… max for i7 would probably 50 mins of charge total for Melbourne to Sydney. I would still choose i7 over 40i. With the 47,000km in 8 months I’ve done.. haven’t payed a cent with Chargefox and saved so much more money then an ice car! I don’t even charge at home.. Same with the Audi and 87,000km I’ve done on it.
Paid propaganda really. featured on 7news says a lot. they failed to mention the "ICE" 7 series is a Hybrid. picked the most expensive 300kw charger too when the car can't do 300kw charging.
The speed limit thing is ridiculous in Victoria. They need to get it past their thick heads that speeding up for an overtake is not necessarily dangerous. But no let’s have more cameras that catch you 5km above the limit.
Great test for its intended purpose. In reality these sorts of long distance trips aren’t common place for the vast majority. The savings you make over a year of ownership charging your EV at home would more than make up for a slightly more expensive road trip when venturing out further. Plus as with electricity petrol prices are also on the rise and far less predictable. The additional stoppage time actually makes for a safer journey.
Good to see the film to be done in the inner leafy suburbs of Melbourne. Especially Camberwell at 2:06. Hmm, though, it would have been easier to perhaps continued up Burke road through to Heidelberg and up to the turn off onto the Ring Road past Greensborough?
Add in the $80,000 price difference for ev plus your $35,000 power wall and solar. That’s the price of 2 tanks of fuel per month for 34 years. When the EV will need a new battery after 10 years and I haven’t included any cost of charging not at home for “Free”
Well there are cheaper evs which are more efficient. Don't need solar, if you add solar then you need to reduce electricity bill from house too. In 10 years, battery tech will improve even more.
If I did a road trip in my Tesla Model 3 I would probably charge the battery off my solar panels at 12c/kilowatt hour before I started. I would also expect that the Tesla superchargers would be cheaper. Since I installed a Tesla powerwall in early December I've only used solar power, but the only road trip I've done was just over 300 km which was a round trip so I didn't have to charge. I did calculate that to do 350 km on my KTM 390 Adventure motorcycle at 3.1 litres/100 km cost me $28. If I charged the Model 3 at home it would have been around $7 for the same distance. If I used the most expensive superchargers I've ever seen it would have been about $40.
Keep Justifying! You know on depreciation alone never mind all that expense you've gone to with solar and a power wall you are very badly in the red. Have a look at Carsales adverts for Tesla's and the pricing updates; you'll never be able to sell the thing. Factor that in to your smugness.
First of all, thank you very much for this great video. It's truly incredible how efficient modern diesel engines are. 6.5 liters per 100 km for such a luxury car is really amazing. And what's more, no particular attention was paid to particularly efficient driving. But the electric Bavarian Motor Works is also doing very well. 21 kW per 100 km is very good consumption for such a heavy car. In addition, everything that contributes to a pleasant journey has been switched on here too. If you now take a clear assessment of today's circumstances, you have to say that an electric car has to cover a lot of kilometers before it comes close to being CO2 neutral. If you compare all the costs, it is currently significantly cheaper to drive a modern diesel. Only when the electricity is produced more sustainably. This makes it significantly cheaper. And the batteries allow even more range, we have reached the right point. But even with all pollutant emissions from production onwards, the electric car would have to drive at least 200,000 km to come close to the emission of the diesel engine. So there is still a lot to do. Thank you very much and greetings from Bavaria.
Hey Paul. Good video! My only issue with this is the starting charge and topping back up at the end using public chargers. I don't think this is right as the majority of EV owners charge at home. I have a Tesla M3 and can say it would make zero sense to do that. Home charging on off-peak power is more like 18c per kwh. This ability to charge at home using cheap off-peak power is a key differentiator to ICE and it completely changes the result (EV ends up at $107.16). I'd suggest it would be more objective to seperate the 'on the road charging' from the home charging.
@@CarExpertAus Yes, but you include the cost of topping up to 100% at the end. In reality, that top up can be done at home for the EV owner where power is way cheaper. I think this ability to 'fuel up' at home is an important difference between EV and ICE and shouldn't be overlooked, given it makes a big difference to the numbers. Just my 2c. Thanks again for the video!
Appreciate the comments about extra time to charge to 100%, when to less may have been more efficient, but an additional two hours (maybe less )of your time, has a cost too. Say $30 per hour, after tax (???) as a number, lower vehicle cost, and way better sound from the ice, has the ICE way ahead., in my opinion. Great comparison.
I drove Melb to Sydney 12 months ago in a 60kwh EV, stopped 4 times and was only charging 63mins total... the idea of owning an EV on these longer trips is to stop more frequently, but for less time... these massive battery EV's just don't make much sense on bid drives
i7 is capable of charging at 200kw from 2% to ~40% so there is a benefit of a larger battery, charge stops could be reduced if used properly (which it wasnt in this video)
This test was sadly stacked to be biased against EVs. Hence why it made it onto the mainstream news. But let the anti-EV crowd have their day, actual EV owners get it. In a year and a half of EV ownership, I have never had to visit a "fuel" station, and that includes country trips.
Obviously you should have topped up your EV to 80% and made an extra stop rather than all the way to 100%. EVs have a much faster charging time below 80% and slow down from 80-100%. It's dangerous driving 5+ hours without stopping anyway. To be more fair, your first charge would normally have been done at home where the cost of electricity is much cheaper.
Great episode. Another thing to consider re: cost of charging. If my destination is home, I would be charging at a much lower price. @35c/kWh, the EV’s fuel would cost about $15 less. I would save even more if I had solar rooftop. So for me fuel cost is on par! Now - I just need to save for a 7 series! Haha
Same here. Most of my charging is at home and we get an even better rate of 9.45 c/kwh. Currently driving a PHEV but will be moving on to an EV within the next year.
Plenty of average speed cameras in the UK plus normal ones but, we have a 10% + 2mph tolerance for speeding. So on the motorway, 70mph, you'll be fine going through speed cameras at 77mph.
Paul, another great comparison. Thanks for choosing the state of the art EV car to demonstrate what EV travel may look like in 10 years for common EV vehicles. Most people like you look at cost efficiency between EV and petrol car but overlook three most important factors, 1. Down time to charge EV 2. Security of your driver and passengers whilst waiting and 3. Comfort of your driver and passengers whilst waiting. We typically prefer direct flight for our flying destinations even if it is little more expensive to avoid down time of waiting and changing flights. We also choose airlines that offers more comfortable seats, leg room and refreshments for a relaxing enjoyable flight journey. Same is true for long distance driving. First, no families will accept an additional 1.5-2.0 waiting hours on their 9 hours trip between Melbourne and Sydney irrespective of fuel efficiency of EV. Most people currently has one stop 15-30m for fueling/refreshments and another 5-10m for leg stretch/amenities. Secondly, most people would not want their family to either wait inside the car or petrol station after 9:00pm in a town between Melbourne and Sydney whilst the EV is being charged for 1.5-2.0 hours. There is very limited security in these places after hours. Thirdly, no petrol stations are going to provide highly comfortable seats, quality air conditioned atmosphere in the waiting area and quality menu. It is simply not cost effective for them to do so. These places are designed to serve Australia's night drivers, namely, truck drivers who are on the road to make a living not for enjoyment. Aussie driver and passengers going on a holiday trip will need to endure 2 hours of sub-standard amenities and menu whilst EV is being charged. You will destroy your family's trip experience simply by doing this. Bottom line EV has a long way to go to be an alternative to petrol vehicle for long distance driving. Thanks.
At this time, the real winner will be the hybrid vehicle. No worries about getting to the next recharge station. No waiting for hours for the full recharge. Plus, superior fuel range than an ICE vehicle. IMHO, it will be at least another decade before an EV starts being the equal of a hybrid vehicle.
hybrids, like EVs lose their efficiency advantage on the open road. Driving a hybrid up the Hume is less efficient than the equivalent ICE vehicle as it has to carry the extra weight of electric motors and a battery. This could be made up in the stop/start city legs at the start and end of the trip, but not by much
It'd absolutely smash it even worse than the mighty B58 did.. To think that awesome engine in that big car with all that potential performance ran at 6L/100 is just incredible.. If you haven't seen it go watch Joe go 1100 miles in his diesel 730D from the UK to France.... Mind blowing efficiency..
One thing to note about the 740i. It has the legendary BMW B58 inline 6 engine. These are the engines used in the Toyota Supra. If you haven't cottoned on to what that means, it's essentially BMW's most reliable engine ever made.
It's the stationary time that gets to me. The last time I did Sydney to Melbourne it was on a single tank of fuel - it was close to empty when I got there but no range anxiety as just so many refuelling options as I approached the city. I did a stop at Goulburn for a donut and soda, plus a couple of other times probably of 10 mins max duration each just toilet and a quick bounce around the car park. All up probably 40 mins stopped. The point is that I could choose when to stop rather than be forced into it by the car. I can't stand cafes in general and hate tea/coffee so just keep a small car fridge with me packed with water/sodas/juices etc so stop time is purely dictated by toilet or tiredness breaks. I'd be much more comfortable with EVs if they did a small commuter option, range 150ks which would cover the vast majority of my driving and because it would have a small battery pack could easily be charged from a normal mains socket. Yes, I know there's a few out there but something like a Kia Picanto EV would be perfect for me for general use but probably too expensive for Kia to make? Good video though.
Completely respect your viewpoint and my suggestion would not completely alleviate the issues you identified: 1. You don't need a powerful dedicated charger. A mobile one that usually comes with the EV, drawing 10A would be able to charge the car overnight and give you the range you need everyday. At 200Wh/km (close to the figure in the video but remember EVs are far more efficient in town), and charging at 2400W, you would be able to gain 12km of range every hour, and a 10 hour overnight charge would therefore give you 120km a range per day. 2. Paul charged the car to the max for the purpose of the experiment, but in practice, I rarely charge above 80% on long trips because that's when you spend double amount of time to charge and turns the charging session from 30min to close to an hour. As other posts suggest, I would say you need around 2 charges of 20 minutes each and would still make the trip easily. 3. You "sort" of can choose where to stop for petrol/diesel, but that's more because we are used to the number and distribution of petrol stations. Like you wouldn't expect to see a petrol station in the hotel you are staying at but for EV you can plan for that. 4. The "cheapest" EV in Australia now is under $40k driveaway, still more expensive than the Picanto at $22k, but the difference is more manageable, and you do get slightly more car ignoring the drivetrain.
Now, try this on Norwegian winter temperatures of -10 to -20 Celsius, and that will both cut EV range by 30-40% as well as slow down charging speed a lot, so you'd probably need 3 full one hour charge on the way, plus the one at the destination... The ICE would become exponentially more advantageous under such conditions.
Hang on, boys! I'm not an EV fan at all. I'm pro hybrid and hydrogen technologies. But let understand this, your destination was alexandria, and you counted the last recharge there, so you left the i7 fully charge and 740 with the tank empty? Or the fuel left on the 740 was similar to the range of the i7 fully charge. Can you clarify that, please? The result wouldn't be fair if the ranges left on the cars were different. Cheers
I love these comparisons! ICE’s best environment for efficiency and cost vs an EV’s worst. And not to mention the time charging - although it is quicker to volt and bolt instead of charging all the way to 100% like at Tarcutta. Wish you did one of these driving around Melbourne all week too. To see the comparison in the urban environment too would have been interesting because I know the results would likely be significantly different in the EV’s favour. And just refill the EV at home much cheaper.
@@CarExpertAus but unfortunately the average punter doesn’t understand or actually know that. They just see these comparisons and think EVs are more expensive to run and more inconvenient.
@@kasmstamps1897🤦♂️ that’s a dumb argument when you consider BMW sells ICE and EVs. You just sound salty because the test showed EVs are inconvenient and expensive for road trips. Can’t argue with facts.
Soooooo much cheaper to run a car in Oz.. We pay around $1.5 per kw public charging and $2.80 per litre for diesel in the UK. If you can’t charge at home it simply isn’t feasible to own an electric vehicle (and where I live in London, there are only TWO public chargers in the whole town).
Kind of fuels the point that no ev is not affordable nor saves time for long distance trips. Hope 800v architecture and Better and faster batteries will balance the time part but power cost I guess will keep going up...
Why pick a couple of Unobtainium vehicles from a manufacturer that's not exactly leading in EVs. They aren't the only EVs with petrol equivalents. How about the Hyundai Kona Electric vs petorl Kona? Or the MG ZS EV vs the MG ZS? In fact, a 2019 Kona Electric vs a 2019 Petrol Kona would be the best comparison as you would be comparing cars that people are more likely to own - i.e. not brand new vehicles, but several years old and that will highlight the differences even more - EVs lose range due to degradation, ICEVs lose efficiency due to older engine.
Hey Paul, great vid as always! Considering efficiency, would it be more time effective to charge to 80% and then travel to the next closest Charging station more often?
In Tesla's case, and I would think applicable to some other EVs as well, the navigation guidance space out charging so that you only have to charge up to around 80% (lower in most cases) and you would still have enough charge to make it to the next charging station.
Not forgetting the cost difference between an EV and equivalent ICE car. In this case the i7 is not only more expensive to drive but also to buy and will depreciate even more than the ice 7. Loss loss situation all the way
The cost difference gets eaten away quickly when you start paying for servicing on the ICE compared to an EV. Also at the moment EV are FBT free if you salary package one.
@frankreynolds9930 your maths is not correct or you just use a lot fuel. Down under on average 20k will get you around 9years worth fuel with current pricing on the MG
Great video. I did the same trip over the holidays in a diesel X3 (avg 6.1L/100km) car was fully loaded. I was wondering how much more efficient a petrol or an EV would be. The 740i was impressive! Well done Paul.
Just for comparison I have an Audi A6 Biturbo 3l diesel. It weighs a touch over 1800kg. I regularly get 5.6l per 100 at 110kph between GC and Brisbane. That’s 45mpg. To me that is economical motoring, even compared to an EV.
@@davidhancock91Diesel is the way to go for economy with large European cars because most petrol models take RON 95 or 98 premium unleaded adding almost 20c per litre.
Love these comparisons, it just depends how you calculate the numbers, if i leave with a full charge costing zero. 2 short stops of 15 min would get me all the way to sydney from melb. This way would calculate cheaper and closer. Either way you won't satisfy the EV haters or EV cult. Great video, more content on the i7 would be amazing.
I agree, I was going to say how this trip could be much more optimised from a charging cost perspective (and halving the charging cost in the process), but it does depend on whether you have your own charging station at home and whether you need a full battery again at your destination. One could argue that this requires so much more additional thinking, but I would argue that you don't have to, and an ICE vehicle would not even give you that option.
@@alannglito complicated. You’d have to factor the cost of electricity at home. Only a tiny percentage of the population is on battery to charge the vehicle. Solar doesn’t count because you’re charging mostly at night at peak usage charges. So I guess you could work out the average kWh rate for the state and work out the full take of fuel vs full battery @ that rate.
@@ablet85 When I say optimise I didn't mean charging based on time of use tariff at home, I mean you simply minimise the charge at fast charging stations, which cost more than double of the peak electricity tariff in my case. It's the same as someone filling up their car with cheaper petrol in town, and avoid filling up with high petrol prices on the highway.
This was an absolute objective comparison and if the government doesn't step in soon to rain in those charging costs, then they might just kill the EV market in Australia. We have a brand new KIA EV6 AWD and it's higher costs need to be offset via lower running costs. Luckily we have a large solar system that is capable to cover the charges for our daily drives, but the majority in Australia do not have that option. Evie has just announced that they are upping the charging costs even more. Now $0.75/KWH for the 350KW charger.
Last year, I did a 5,869 km road trip around South Australia (including the Flinders Ranges and Eyre and York Peninsulas) in my Tesla Model 3. The charging cost was $167.70.
@@aussieideasman8498 It was a holiday, not a straight run: Melbourne -> Mildura -> Berri -> Clare -> Flinders Ranges -> Whyalla -> Port Lincoln -> Point Turton -> Nuriootpa -> Glenelg -> Mount Lofty -> McLaren Vale -> Kangaroo Island -> Victor Harbor -> Robe -> Penola -> Mount Gambier -> Princetown -> Melbourne.
That EV wasn't even pushed much. More or less perfect conditions when your entire trip is on cruise control. Just proved us that all this EV agenda is actually no benefits at all and hella much things to worry about.
EVs get better economy driving around the suburbs than the open road, ICE vehicles prefer the open road, the opposite. So perfect conditions for the ICE vehicle for the EV not so much.
Utter absurd nonsense. They specifically said they did not want to use the BEV efficiently. They just did what ever was comfortable. You didn't has to state blatant falsehood to push your silly agenda.
@@NeojhunNot what I said you can't do a long range highway test for an EV and an ICE vehicle and extrapolate that for all types of driving. EVs do better in stop start traffic, all they did was not put into ECO mode or run the air conditioner at 2 degrees higher. They acknowledge this the original poster, did the extrapoltaion to all types of driving based on a test solely done at highway speeds. Go look at fuel economy stats for ICE vehicles they will publish a city, a highway and a combined reading.
Well done car expert, as an EV and ICE car owner- I think this is a pretty fair test and presented pretty objectively. Similar to results I’ve seen in my Model Y LR and Passat R line. Sadly though, I think the biased people will take this completely the wrong way. 65c/kwh is very high in price, whereas it’s quite common to get a 50-55c for 50-70kw chargers or free for
You do realise you do most of your charging at home using cheaper residential electricity rates just like your other electronic devices right 😆 Those fast chargers are only applicable if you're doing the odd road trip across to other cities, which seldom occur, like a couple of times a year, if not less for most.
So the EV in this test costs more to buy, costs more to charge up, requires you to wait much longer at a charging station. Even if you drive it mainly in city (which is where the benefits of an EV shine), the price premium over an ICE still doesn't justify it for me. The pros are the quieter ride, zippier acceleration.
Between Melbourne and Sydney........... complete eye roll. Apparently thats travelling around in Australia between the two major cities. Go from Sydney to Brisbane, go from SA to Perth, go from WA to the NT and across the NT mate...
Great video Paul and Joe. It would be interesting to see the difference if it wasn’t a road trip but a month of running around the burbs as the vast majority of motorists do. I suspect the EV would end up cheaper to run (but still overall more expensive as EV version costs more to buy initially). The ROI probably would never stack up for EV. It is just down to preference at the end of the day.
My personal experience suggest that you would save heaps in the scenario of "running about the burbs", but that's contingent on you having a charger at home. if you don't, you would still be able to charge at a lower rate than the chargers in the middle of nowhere, but the savings would be just something nice rather than massive one. My own data suggest that I spent less than $900 on electricity for about 18,000km of driving, which includes a number of long trips that require more expensive fast charging. Admittedly that happened before fast charging got expensive and I have been able to enjoy quite a few free charging sessions at the places I visit.
@@alanngli I calculate circa 3.5 litrs/100km is the equivalent cost to run my Etron S (which is a heavy user of electrons). This Calc is done on a cost basis (ie: the same cost to charge is the same cost as petrol at 3.5 l/100kms. Here in Aus approx $7.00 per 100kms). Not bad really for a low 4 sec to 100kmph SUV…
I'd rather drive my unwieldy Patrol around the burbs than the BMW which weighs the same and is also huge and unwieldy for suburban use. It also costs 75% less to buy, and won't burn my house down when it spontaneously combusts.
@@einfelder8262 just park it on the street, you’ll be right!! :-). So far (fingers crossed) no spontaneous combustion for me, however I hear your point. FYI, I wouldn’t buy the BMW either but that’s down to the fixation BMW has with forcing wireless CarPlay (no wired option at all). It drops out all the time in Perth and is useless.
Diesel would be best choice for long distance travel. My experience is with 2019 BMW 5 series 530d diesel with 62L fuel capacity, traveled from Sydney to Melbourne with just one tank without need for any refueling!
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Why would you even consider sandbagging the petrol? The ev is heavier because its an ev. Thats just part of the pie. Thats also why it has 140kg less payload.
It's because EV technology is inherently inferior, hence the need for state subsidies, mandates, penalizing ICE, and the outrageous test here where ballast was added to the superior ICE car.
The majority of SUV's on the road are way heavier than the average EV.
@@B0r0 Absolute rubbish. Apart from most reasonably sized ev's being north of two tonnes you can't seriously compare something like a Renault Zoe to an X5 and expect people to cross shop them.
Then what about the ev SUV's?
Or do you think people are going to buy a tiny ev instead of a massive ice SUV?
At every single level of vehicle the ev is heavier - sometimes a bit heavier, sometimes a lot heavier and the ones which aren't a lot heavier are usually very limited on range.
On top of all that there is the question of ability. Towing capacity, payload, range, cost to buy, cost to insure and all the rest are way worse on an ev so you can't even really compare them like for like - in reality its the ev that needs to be the even bigger car to compete.
For example a Zoe (I'm going from 2019 when I had one) is basically an electric Clio but has far less range, far lower payload, no towing ability and costs as close as makes no difference twice as much in base trims.
Even the Megane electric can't match the Clio on usability which makes your point backwards at best.
Thank you! I said the same thing as he was saying that.
@@B0r0 That is stupid and only works if you compare an SUV to a smaller car, an electric SUV is heavier than the equivalent ICE vehicle. Australians wont change the way they drive, just as many people will still drive SUV sized cars electric or ICE.
If only the depreciation was as slow as the i7 charging time
All 7 series used prices drop like a stone, regardless of drivetrain.
😂😂
BMW uses cheap plastics in the engine bay, and cheap electronics, forget about the depreciation, don't even buy one.
@kareembaba7498 that's in addition to their over priced servicing.
My brother had a new 3 series that had an oil leak after 2 years and BMW couldn't fix the problem. So he did the gold old spray degreaser under the engine and sold the car to a lucky buyer 😆
It's only 'slow' because it's a 120kWh battery. That's enough battery to power a dozen houses your street.
I disagree with adding weight to Joe's car. Also with comparing super long range this model vs super efficient that model cars. This video showed me exactly what I wanted to see. Identical cars driven the same way, on the same road in the same conditions. Electric vs Petrol.
Agree.
Agree
It shows that an EV at an increaased weight is much more efficient than petrol.
66kw vs 20kw.
But then there is the cost per kw for quick chargers though :(.
No weight was added to Joe's car but then again we honestly can't say it's identical same cars when there is 600kg difference. Even with such a huge weight difference it did a good job.
@@tomdesmet735there’s also the huge price difference when buying it in the first place. You’d never make up the difference. People raving about how they can recharge from home for nothing through solar, um are they forgetting how much the system cost them to set up in the first place and if you don’t have a battery and charging at night when you get home from work you aren’t charging for free
Fantastic video guys, thanks for making my trip so😮 awesome (including coming last in the karts!) 😂 Interesting results, for the record, the older G11 730d would have covered both directions on a single tank! See you legends again soon hopefully ❤️👊🏽
Funny though how you both tested the least efficient version of the i7 for this 😂
Throw a 730d in there next time. It would be interesting to hear all the ev people's excuses...
@@Astke😢
I like your test. I'd like to see the comparison total cost of ownership / 15k per year: ICE v. EV. Most commonly owned models in each bracket, then do a road trip with those numbers included.
my 330d has 9l/100km(26mpg)
how is that averaging 6?😮
Adding weight to the ICE car is ridiculous as it's going to artificially harm the fuel efficiency.
The BMW is nt deigned from the ground up as an EV that's why its 600 odd Killos heavier the Model S is only a little heavier at 2250 kg and its the same sized car
@@johnkechagais7096 warning warning.... Fanboy alert....
@@markc6714 attack the person rather than respond to the point
@@johnkechagais7096 it wasn't an attack rather an observation. An attack would be much different
That was crazy to see they considered adding weight. Low common sense.
So as a summary:
EV Model: BMW i7 M70
EV Vehicle Price: $344,900
EV Energy Cost: $131.92
EV Wait Time: 2hr 8min
ICE Model: BMW 740i
ICE Vehicle Price: $272,900
ICE Energy Cost: $117.88
ICE Wait Time: 0hr 6min
Total Trip Distance: 873km
In summary:
- EV costs ~70k more to buy
- ~12% more to run
- ~2000% longer to refill
When compared to the equivalent ICE vehicle.
Sure 12% more to run if you only use Level 3 DC Chargers. But AC charging in Aus is way cheaper than Petrol. Easily 40% less than Fuel for the same mileage.
That $70,000 purchase difference will take a long time to cover against fuel and service cost differential… say it’s $5,000 cheaper a year for the EV for fuel and maintenance … you only need to keep it 14 years to break even against the gas burner, likelihood you’ll keep a car 14 years about zero
@@toddalcock6879
Wealthy drivers don't complain running costs as they care for prestige and comfy.
So I think it's more practical in comparing average EV (Tesla or BYD) with affordable ICE (Toyota, Honda) price between 30 to 50k.
The charging time was that long because the journalist chose to rely solely on Evie chargers when he knew the Optus network was down. He could have created a free Tesla charging account in 2 minutes and used any of the available Tesla Superchargers. Also, he chose the least efficient EV available for this comparison. My Tesla can do Sydney to Melbourne for $60.
Conclusion is stop buying Ev waste of money and time
So the i7 is 600 kg heavier, more expensive and takes 20x longer to charge.
The future is here guys.
😂👌
Yep, the world is obviously full of delusional morons to believe EV's are the future.
it also costs zero in maintenance and about 9x less to fuel if you charge at home.
So in 200,000km ( which the i7 has warranty for and the combustion one has 100,000km warranty.) you would spend over 120,000$ in fuel alone and another 50,000$ in maintenance 😂
Yeah,keep your ice.
Love the sarcastic comment haha
@@sorinelpustiu5674 Only ice here is in the crack pipe you’re smoking mate.
6 minutes stop time vs 2 hours and 8 minutes...the 'future' is SLOOOOW
Do you drive 900km in one go sitting on top of a bucket or toilet seat and eat nothing for entire duration? I thought so...
you charge when you eat and take a break..
Unlike your hairline, it will improve with time
Things may look different If you perform the same test during holidays. I noticed people had to wait long hours to recharge at these charging stations.
Where did you get 2 hours from? It was 1hr at the first stop (to charge a battery almost 2x the size of a Tesla) and he didn't need to do a second stop at all, he just did it while he got a coffee.
Cry baby lol@@techwhizard
Every EV owner knows you don't charge over 80% when on a road trip because the last 20% takes about as long as the first 80%. Was this done on purpose for dramatic affect?
Anything to discredit EV
@@Juddyd1990 I mean an EV is never going to be more efficient at highway speeds. Anyone who regularly does long highway drives would never consider an EV. They should do a comparison of inner city and suburban driving efficiency. Factor in some mains power or even home solar charging and the equation flips.
Brilliant to see Joe on your videos!! There’s something satisfying about seeing a RUclipsr you watch pop up in a video from another RUclipsr across the world 🗺️
Glad you called out the average speed traps Paul as also here in South Australia, they have them on a lot of highways and I definitely think they do more harm than good, encouraging bad driving and inattentiveness.
Under 7l for the big 7 series is outstanding
I agree. I would be battling to get under 7 in my 2.5L petrol car that weighs 600kg less than the BM. My whole of life average is 8L per 100km and that's with about 95% rural use.
That was a big takeaway from the video for me too but he didn’t go through the engine specs unfortunately, I assumed it would have something like a 5L twin turbo V8 but I have no idea in this latest generation.
3.0 straight six turbo @@TAB10688
Meanwhile he used the least efficient version of the i7. The m70 is a thirsty beast.
Not replete the test in Europe at 140kph, it get more efficient on its top gear
Awesome to see Joe! One of my favourite RUclipsrs, keep up the good work CarExpert!
Thanks 👍🏽
It would have been a lot quicker to only charge to about 80% and "top up" a couple of times. You should never fully charge to 100% in an EV on a road trip, as the charge rate above 80% is VERY slow. At least charge enough to get you to the next charger. There are a lot of fast DC chargers between Sydney and Melbourne, definitely no need to fully charge each time.
Agree. I have an EV and charging to 100% when you are on the road just wastes time unless the next charger will be seriously testing the range.
From my experience, it is better to stop more frequently for shorter periods (I need to stretch my legs at least every 2 hours).
Yep, best to fully charge when you get to your final destination for free like an Air BnB house like i did lol or at home if you have a LFP EV battery. Charging slows after 80%, it's like comparing a parking lot when it's 80% full it takes longer to find a parking spot like electrons do, and slower again closer to 100%
Yes, that’s correct, plus you can charge from home to begin with and that is substantially cheaper. They never mentioned that fuel is also going to be more expensive as time goes on.
@streddaz especially with all these wars happening in the middle east and Ukraine and stupid pirates hijacking cargo ships that maybe transporting fuel. It will have a flow on affect with fuel prices going up.
@@leisuresuitlaz1710 the other thing that isn’t often talked about is sovereign energy supply. Australia makes all its own electricity but imports almost all petroleum products, and they come from the OPEC countries. Australia only has 3 weeks of fuel reserves if for some reason supply was cut off.
It always amazes me that people doing these comparisons say that normal people would stop every 2 hours for a break before continuing. Everyone I know would probably stop every 4 hours or so depending on fuel stations. If your mate had of kept going after purchasing a sandwich and drink and had them in the car like most people, he would have arrived 3 to 3.5 hrs before you! Stopping when you did, didn't show the real affect of having to stop and charge the car
yep, by the looks they stayed together waiting for the charge, no way are 99 percent of people are going to hang around and wait. They will just want to get there. Stupid comparison test if you ask me.
thats the idea of a comparison test ,drive side by side ,same stops ,same speed jeez@@subaruadventures
I drive across the country 8 hours at a time. Sometimes 10 hours. EV would be done.
You "friends" are dumb if they drive like you said.
As a guy in his fifties I can happily say that 2.5 to 3 hours is as far as I want to go before stopping for a call of nature!
As someone who does this drive with no stops at all
This so so frustrating to watch lol
Plus range anxiety would kill me
then wait 5 years. by then EVs will have a range twice that of ICE vehicles
@@Cecil-yc6mc doubtful… but will see
I am just a bit confused about the 100% charging stop. Sure this wasn't about the trip duration, but in a more normal case you would only charge to like 60 to 80% and not spend all that time to go to 100% and do one stop more. In terms of energy used this of course doesn't make a difference.
But my real point would be that energy prices and energy used in total. I am not sure about oil in Australia and where it is coming from, but I would guess that this would also go up in cost over time due to oil being a resource with and end date and emissions that most of us would like to not have anymore.
So in terms of energy used in kWh the petrol one is at 56.16l * 8.5kwh (per liter) so 477kwh for the trip compared to the 203kwh for the electric car. That is quite the difference in energy used to move that car with a few humans.
I think charging to 100% is defeating the benefit of an EV. Obviously you're trying to get across that ICE still has a place, yep we get that but a good amount of EV users know that you charge short charge often which is more efficient and saves time. And if you're taking kids on a road trip they would enjoy breaks more often.
Exactly (Paul owns a Tesla and knows this). We did the exact same trip from Melbourne to Sydney in our Tesla Model 3 LR only 2 weeks ago. Only needed 2 charge stops (Albury and Yass) charging to around 80%. Total charge time 1 hour. Tesla Supercharging costs were $64. Tesla M3LR weighs 1800kg vs 2700kg for the BMW I7 they both have similar ranges. I was a long time owner of BMW but their EVs aren't compelling and this video proves their inefficiency along with bloated prices and weight.
@CarExpert. Interesting that the i7 used exactly 200KWh & the 740 used 56.16lt @ 8.9KWh/lt so 500KWh of energy for the same journey. So the EV was 2.5 times more efficient than the petrol.
So when is the creator going to address the obvious bias in this test? What bias you ask? Well, the biggest one is that the 'petrol' car is a hybrid. They've also chosen a very inefficient EV, which will take longer to charge. Then the initial charge/fill wasn't included, which would typically done at much cheaper home rates for the EV while the hybrid would pay the rate it always does. I'm guessing they sought out 50kw chargers based on the slow charging time - on a 350kw charger I'd take 18 minutes to do 10-80% and I'd need a total of 45 minutes or less charging for this trip in a Kia EV6.
It's amazing what the results look like when you decide ahead of time what you want them to be. Now redo the same test, but include the initial charge/fill and a month's normal use.
In my opinion, I think car manufacturers should focus more on making hybrid cars. This idea of jumping from the internal combustion engine straight to EVs is quite a problem. These things are still expensive, and the charging speed is not there yet. 😑 Range exiety is a real issue no matter how you look at it. You need to be mindful of how you put your foot on the acceleration pedal, especially if you're doing a long trip. All this will be solved by PHEVs, best of both worlds 🌎
I agree! Or even work on sustainable fuels like Formula 1 and Porsche are doing.
Not to mention on hot days your range decreases too. My mate has a Tesla and he said on a hot summer day he will lose 100km of range.
If we want to keep global warming from progressing at the rate it's at now, you need to go to electric ASAP, not when it's convenient.
@Jacob-rc5bn 100 km is a lot😑
Hybrid was just too slowly adopted, i was a fan too.. EV satisfies 90% of local/daily driving with huge savings. Petrol and diesel will have their place IMO for our towing and long haulers for years.
@@SCELO_MYEZA. I know, but that’s what he told me.
Not sure what part of the world you’re from but here in Western Australia it’s not uncommon to get consecutive 40+ days
Hey just one thing. As both cars started at 100% that means you still needed to purchase petrol for the 7 series whereas the i7 would have charged at home. Charging at home is always cheaper than charging at fast chargers and much cheaper per mile covered than petrol. So that should also be taken into account.
I’m going to disguise my phone as a 2 way radio soo I can hold it whilst driving
All I would add is there is Tesla and there is everything else. They are not the same thing. For example BMW still lock you into inexplicable and pricey main dealer "servicing" to maintain EV warranty. if you really cannot stomach a Tesla (their supercharging is way cheaper, always working and at more locations) then just stick with ICE.
I think if 90%+ of your trips are local and charged with home solar, the one off long trip is offset. Unless you regularly drive 900kms
You don't even need solar. Public charging is potentially several times more expensive than charging off the grid, depending on which public chargers you use and what your home tariff is.
Even then. 900 km is maybe 2 short stops or 1 longer 30-40 minute stop in an ev with 400-500km real world range.
@vasil7410 this is true, I just meant I have solar so it's effectively 6c electricity (i.e. that's the forgone feed in tarrif)
Don't forget to add on the 30-50k worth of panels, batteries and charging infrastructure you'll need at your home to do that, that's if you own your home and have an off street driveway or garage to charge in!
EV cope
I also did a roadtrip Melbourne to Sydney with two cars, one being a BMW M340i, the other a Volvo XC40 Twin Recharge. The BMW required one fuel stop, the Volvo was an absolute pain which felt like we were always waiting for it to charge, literally added hours onto the trip, it also cost much more in "refuelling" than the BMW. The Volvo has since been sold. While I believe EV's would make fantastic cars for senior citizens who just use the car to get to the shops a couple of times a week, they definitely are not for everybody. If you plan on doing any highway driving, taking the family away for a long weekend or just like your car to have a bit of soul you will be very dissapointed with an EV.
Would be interested to see a similar video that involves city driving and charging at home. Something far more people actually do than this cross country drive.
Exactly, with solar you'll be able to afford the depreciation
Do the test again in five years time when the cars have some miles on the clock
Agreed
Majority of people would/should charge at home and the cost of driving is significantly reduced by thousands of the year of ownership!!!!
They need to report on this
That’s the 740i hybrid model that’s being compared, correct?
Those prices per kWh is too damn high! That's almost 2x more than national average that people pay at home in AUS. WTF Australia!
Good comparison. two important things overlooked. What will be the resale value in 5 years and secondly what is the replacement cost for batteries which could happen in 5 to 10 years. Having said that al BMERS have discusting resale anyway.
20:48 - actually some of the energy would have been reused even on Joes car. BMW's efficient dynamics means when you're off throttle it loads the alternator up to add charge to the battery so the a/c and so on would have been mostly powered by that on the last leg which is partly why it was so efficient.
Does the petrol BMW have an electric ac unit? I mean a unit that runs on the battery and is not attached to the motor?
@@JoseMariArceta Pretty much everything is electric in them - even the engine oil and water pumps. Its all on demand.
@@siraff4461 Oh okay cool i guess, maybe given enough speed turning the engines via the wheels it should be enough to spin the alternator enough to power the ac compresor and fans.
@@JoseMariArceta I'm not sure exactly how much it can recoup but its not insignificant. In my experience ED cars tend to do about 5% better on fuel then non ED ones all else being the same.
I say alternator but its really a starter/generator and again its a decent sized unit.
Stop/start is noticably smoother on ED cars too.
Its interesting stuff and worth taking a few minutes to look into.
Not groundbreaking but it makes tehm a bit less wasteful and genuinely helps.
A very limited comparison. Long, long trip and no opportunity to charge at home. I would prefer a comparison with the cars doing 1000 - 1500 km per over say 10 - 14 days with maximum single trips say 200-250 km. This better describes my usage pattern and no doubt many others as well. Cars can then be charged on home system at 27c - 33 c per kWh. EVs would be way cheaper to run. Service costs lower too. Do this comparison, please.
For those viewers who are put off considering getting an EV by the charging time, it is important to know that the last part of a full charge, from about 80% to 100%, is very slow. A Better Route planner recommended a two stop strategy for this drive in this EV, charging from 33%-74% in Albury and 10%-65% in Yass, for a total charging time of 42 mins. The cost can be high for road trips, but if you stay in places with free charging, you can wake up to a full battery. And at home, you can charge from solar for "free" (or the cost of forgoing the pitiful feed in tariff rate).
Yeah but clickbait is much better for RUclips clicks right? Why not be misleading?😂😂
Adding an extra stop and staying overnight somewhere we don't want to be is the fabulous, new, time saving solution 👌
Time, cost, needing to plan a trip instead of doing things spontaneously, not to mention the complete failure of the entire network due to reliance on mobile telecommunications networks...
This is why hydrogen needs to remain an option of development, it's why right now you are better off buying hybrid or plug in hybrids if you actually are an active traveller.
Potentially if your just wanting a car to driving with its range, then electric is still good, but I'm uncertain if it's ever going to be a future that we all move to, more and more I think we need a different solution that doesn't require charging points.
Or you could just not bother with any if that and stick to an ICE car that doesn't need anymore planning. Seriously, the more complicated things get the higher the chances of something going wrong along the way.
@@Blight-fp3vt We are still in the early days of electrification. Battery technology will continue to improve, with better range, faster charging and cheaper price. I'm sure in the early days of ICE vehicles, people would say "My horse is quieter, cheaper, doesn't need petrol" etc etc.
Had a 730d xdrive been available it could have covered 1448km on one tank. Diesel is still king for fuel efficiency. Until Ev's can match that in distance and are cheaper to charge they simply can not compete.
FYI For those who congratulated Car Expert being on 7 news.
7 West Media ( Channel 7 owners) have a financial interest in Car Expert
Funny that
Is it expensive to charge an EV at a British public charging point? Here in Australia they did a road trip from Sydney to Melbourne, using a BMW EV and its petrol equivalent. Turned out $20 cheaper in petrol than charging at a public charging point. And quicker. A 9 hour trip in the petrol version took 2 hours longer in the EV.
Didn’t the EVIE charge stations just have a 40% increase. Makes these results outdated
Price adjustments can easily be cost adjusted.
This felt like a test designed to demonstrate the answer they wanted. Let's pick two cars that barely anyone can afford. Let’s pick one of the most inefficient EVs possible and then let's test on a highway road trip (that most people don’t do very often) where ICE is at its most efficient and EVs at their least efficient.
Maybe do it next time using Hyundai Kona or Kia Niro that people can afford and are more efficient (both ICE and EV).
As a comparison I have had a Tesla Model 3 RWD for nearly a year and done 10,500kms and never had to use a fast charger. It's cost me about $250. Let's see an ICE do that.
- Exactly, a well reasoned civil opinion - and a budget decision... (I think they have done it before and people complained that the cars were not identical, an EV simply isn't identical to an ICE car), you understand - 10500km is a very short yearly mileage (so after - say - 5 years figure out your total transport cost and work out if a taxi might be cheaper??).
(Even with totally free charging (sunk solar + battery), my transport needs can't be met by a single EV, and registering and insuring 2 vehicles doesn't "break even" - the maths tells the energy story.)
Good video! I am very impressed you made it from Melbourne to Tarcutta (my favourite stop of the Hume) on a single charge. I would have chickened out somewhere near Holbrook for a comfort stop.
Was interesting to see how similar the cost was between the two vehicles.
What I don't understand is presenting 2 hours of charging including a 1 hour stop going from 2% to 100% as a realistic experience. As you briefly mentioned going from 80% -> 100% can be much much slower than going from 20% -> 80%
If you did want to compare the total time of the road trip between EV and ICE you should have stopped more often, for much shorter periods.
You could easily complete that same trip with more frequent stops with MUCH shorter charging times - even including the time taken to exit the Hume and get back on. Based on numbers, maybe 15min stop in Glenrowan, 25min stop in Tarcutta, and another 15min stop in Sutton Forest - instead of the 1 hour 7mins at Tarcutta + the charging at the end.
Since this video was filmed additional high speed chargers have opened up on the Hume, thinking of the ones at the Glenrowan BPs (both directions).
It should be added here too that the electric version is more than $35,000 more than the petrol version. If you are paying the cheap electricity of 15c it will take 28 years to make up the difference, but even with solar it will take 20 years to make up the difference, as long as you don't include the price that the solar system cost you.
Paul is just the best at what he does,so knowledgeable and loves what he does.
Except what was the rather stupid comment about the petrol car heating it's brakes on the downhill run into Sydney.
Paul is heavily influenced by the money paid to him by the car industry. He should of called this $300,00 I7 out as a piece of junk.
He is a full clown, he wants bigger parking spots in Australia to cater for American trucks, tells you all you need to know.
@@zoltrix7779 I don't think your irrational hatred of large American trucks is a sound basis for any conclusion other than you think you're the boss of everyone else's choices. Your petty preferences are irrelevant to this discussion.
@@einfelder8262 Its not irrational, it's logical, why would we create larger parking spot thus increase the price of creating construction so people can "choose" these things more easily? Living in a democracy doesn't mean unlimited freedom to take a shit in everyone's face. The fact is that for 99pc of buyers the American full size truck is vanity item and offers no great purpose, even more so than a regular dual cab.
The crazy thing here is the ice vehicle is using 98ron premium, having a car with 91ron standard as the fuel type would save a little bit more. We also have to consider the cost to charge the vehicle to begin with using a home charger, so that $131 charge up could be about 150-160~$ in reality. Although these cars obviously are not basic point to point cars, so a comparison using an even more realistic family car would be great as well. 10/10 content.
If you were a normal family and lived your life around the suburbs the EV is so far ahead its not funny. Occasional road trips are then only around the price as a ICE vehicle. But all the other times you didn't need to visit the fuel station.
@@zoltrix7779This is true, but unfortunately if you buy an EV equivalent of an ICE vehicle it usually costs way more, and it takes years to recoup the costs. Unless you really only drive in the city, then an EV would make sense. The best choice I feel would be a hybrid non plugin equivalent instead.
@@JoseMariArceta you know the BMW 740i is a Hybrid which acts as a range extender right? they conveniently left that one out. not to mention they picked the most expensive charger that does 300kw charging rate but the i7 can only do 190kw. Paul also failed to mention the I7 comes with free 5 yrs charging? If a proper test is done they would of picked the most efficient full petrol (not a hybrid) mid size sedan and put it against the most efficient EV mid size sedan such as the model 3 charging it on the Tesla net work.
@@davec110 I actually didn't know that the petrol car was a hybrid. If true and no im not googling it this makes this video misleading at best.
@@davec110Well. kinda. The 740i is a "mild hybrid", where it uses a small electric battery to run things like turning over the car, the start/stop system, and maybe a tiny bit of help at low speeds. It can recover some energy from regen braking, but and it can help get maybe an extra km per liter. Not a huge range extension. And the free charging doesn't matter. It's a test done with similar cars to test out differences as closely as possible. The ancillary bonuses aren't really relevant to that. IMO the bigger complaint is that the i7 is just less efficient than lots of other EVs on the market.
But yea, point taken that there are ways that make electric vehicles practical for average families while we're still in an early adoption phase of the technology. It always seems silly to me when people complain about the new technology that isn't as fully developed and mature as the centuries-old ech that came before it haha.
I have had a Tesla Model Y for almost a year. The No.1 learning I found is that EV are designed for daily urban drives, not ideal for the long distance drive. They are awesome that you don't need to worry about charging them, especially if you have solar panels at home. However, it is quite a different/awful experience when you need to constantly check the battery level. Your comparison is awesome, but it also might have proved the point that we need to utilise our vehicles differently than we used to. Maybe not to use an EV for long-distance driving but fly or rent a diesel car.
That’s exactly how I use my EV. Brilliant for 99% of what I do. Hopeless for long distance. So I fly and uber or rent.
Yeah good point, im hoping new battery tech will save the day though.
I believe it will get there, ranges of 1200km would see most people's range anxiety disappear.
Faster charging will also help and more chargers as more EV's come onto the roads.
I'm a petrol head and I'll never sell my V8 but i can see what the future holds with ev.
And if you look at how far EVs have come even in the last 5 years that will only continue to improve.
You can't compare an ICE car and an EV and say one is the outright winner considering ICE cars have had over 100 years of evolution and progress to get where they are and EVs have almost caught them in about 20 years of focused development.
The charging network is still no where near where petrol stations are in terms of locations etc. All of that is growing everyday.
I think those that are the die hard petrol lovers are the ones that talk the loudest and that's fine. They can keep their cars (like me) but for the majority of car owners who don't care about cars like us, they will gladly take an ev they can charge with their solar or at work.
Change is different and scary but it's usually for the better. But it also needs time to be perfected.
Keen to see this happen again in another 5 years.
Hey Paul, what about the price difference between the two vehicles and costs to maintain?
Did I read something recently about a rapid increase in the prices for power supply at these fast charges? (Assuming to pay for infrastructure required to move the whole nation to electricity?)
Yes per increase in charging, see what is happening in the UK as it will happen here as well a bit further down the track. Tyre wear due to the extra weight, and higher insurance premiums, and greater depreciation make if far less attractive to me.
Wonder how these 2 would go towing my Jayco, I definately know which one there will win easily.
That is a major issue, we already see electricity costs going up. Eventually you will pay as much for home charging an EV as petrol costs now. Governments everywhere will completely balance out revenue they loose from ICE vehicles going away. The bigger picture is electricity will cost a lot more for everyone not just EV owners.
These are short term problems. Tyres may wear slightly more, but are much easier to maintain and replace than a combustion engine. EVs depreciate because people are buying new ones and the technology in them is improving at such a rapid pace. These are good things, actually. It's only been a few years and the market is already taking huge leaps forward and solving big problems quite quickly. If you're worried.. you can always just lease instead. EVs have legitimate downsides compared to petrol, but seems like we're stretching here.
Electricity costs fluctuate, but no it's stupid to think that electricity costs will rise on a straight line forever. Petrol prices jumped up by how many multiples in the 70s? Evened out over time, though, didn't it? There are lots of ways to make electricity, which means costs will come down with investment (especially if EVs are helping to balance grid-scale loads with bidirectional charging). There is only one way to get gas - and we can't make any more of it. And remember that if and as the dominance of petrol cars begins to fade that the infrastructure supporting them will age and become less prevalent - ie: become more expensive.
@@69firthy
And when you add the highly increased repair costs on EVs compared with ICEs and often longer to much longer waiting time to get your EV repaired, any sane person understands that buying an EV is total lunacy for a person with an average or lower income.
And it is not even good for the planet to buy an EV compared with an ICE.
The total negative effects on the planet per year for the life span of an EV compared with an Ice is totally insane.
So many love to talk about the CO2 when using the car, but they do not want to talk about how much CO2 that is produced during the production of the cars and how much other pollution that is done during the making of the cars and after they have been scrapped, because that do not fit their agendas.
@@Cyrribrae
Let us have a reality check here.
First of all can you be 100% sure that the government will increase the taxes on buying and using EVs to balance their books.
Secondly is there a VERY big reason for why no one has increased the electricity production much yet, and that is because the price of electricity at the moment do not make it profitable enough for them to care to invest in it.
They will only do it if the electricity prices get high enough for them to get a good profit from investing it.
Nothing suggests that it will be any cheaper to produce electricity.
Most likely it will become more expensive because the cheapest ways to produce electricity by now is by using fossil fuels and either the government will make it illegal to use fossil fuels to produce electricity or most likely make it more expensive as that is better for their books.
Large scale electricity production from non fossil fuel ways is also in reality very expensive, unless it is nuclear and most people are not exactly big fans of that idea.
If the electricity prices continue to increase as they most likely will, then that will be an incentive for investors to invest in non fossil fuel electricity production.
So, you will get plenty electricity for your EV, but you can be 100% sure that the electricity will be more expensive than it is today.
One thing you are 100% correct about, is that it makes total sense to lease an EV instead of buying one.
The value of used EVs will only drop faster and faster as the speed of improvements on new EVs increases.
Couldn't understand 15km per l for the ice..tut tut. At 65 cperkwhr I usually say an ice at 10km per l costs 190c and the ev cost 2kwhr, say 130c. The hybrid removes that difference. Still the hybrid put 56kg of petrol burned to about 120kg CO2 into the atmosphere which after all is the main issue. I have done 9500km and spent about $100 @ high speed chargers and all the rest as solar. No CO2 and about 1600kwhr at 10c lost solar income.
It would be interesting to run a test where you have ICE, Hybrid and EV (preferably same car but that's hard to come by as you've said here), and do a city dweller's week or fortnight where you do the same commute for a period around the city simulating a workers commute. Both of these tests have been long-form highway driving so a different style of test to compare results would be great.
Kona?
Hybrid wouldn’t offer much in this setting. Long drives aren’t their use case. Engine would just kick in and you’re pushing a heavier version of the ICE version.
@@ablet85 Have you ever driven a hybrid? During long drives it still saves fuel, just not as much as around the town. Like an EV when you go downhill hybrid turns of the ICE and recharges batteries. When you drive through small towns - it turns of the ICE.
@@ablet85 I'm not talking about a long drive test though
@Kashchey1 I love your reply to ablet85. Only people who have never driven hybrid or are EVangelists thar think hybrids are not efficient on the motorway. I know Toyota prius phev is a fuel sipper on highways and in the city because I own one.
Oh, this is great to see afterJoe’s daily vlogs in Oz and his larks with you! Cool. 🇬🇧🇬🇧👋👋🇦🇺🇦🇺
I was quite disappointed on how they said this (especially on 7 News). They could’ve mentioned and used the benefit of the 5 year Chargefox subscription that comes with the i7 (largest charging network in Australia) and would pay $0 like I do when I travel in my iX or e-tron from Sydney to Brisbane and back. Also when they mentioned charging time at fast charger, you don’t always have to charge to 100% at every stop your making… max for i7 would probably 50 mins of charge total for Melbourne to Sydney. I would still choose i7 over 40i.
With the 47,000km in 8 months I’ve done.. haven’t payed a cent with Chargefox and saved so much more money then an ice car! I don’t even charge at home.. Same with the Audi and 87,000km I’ve done on it.
Paid propaganda really. featured on 7news says a lot. they failed to mention the "ICE" 7 series is a Hybrid. picked the most expensive 300kw charger too when the car can't do 300kw charging.
The speed limit thing is ridiculous in Victoria. They need to get it past their thick heads that speeding up for an overtake is not necessarily dangerous. But no let’s have more cameras that catch you 5km above the limit.
Great test for its intended purpose. In reality these sorts of long distance trips aren’t common place for the vast majority. The savings you make over a year of ownership charging your EV at home would more than make up for a slightly more expensive road trip when venturing out further. Plus as with electricity petrol prices are also on the rise and far less predictable.
The additional stoppage time actually makes for a safer journey.
Good to see the film to be done in the inner leafy suburbs of Melbourne. Especially Camberwell at 2:06. Hmm, though, it would have been easier to perhaps continued up Burke road through to Heidelberg and up to the turn off onto the Ring Road past Greensborough?
Your videos are super interesting and well done again Paul! Thank you
Glad you like them!
Add in the $80,000 price difference for ev plus your $35,000 power wall and solar. That’s the price of 2 tanks of fuel per month for 34 years. When the EV will need a new battery after 10 years and I haven’t included any cost of charging not at home for “Free”
Well there are cheaper evs which are more efficient. Don't need solar, if you add solar then you need to reduce electricity bill from house too. In 10 years, battery tech will improve even more.
If I did a road trip in my Tesla Model 3 I would probably charge the battery off my solar panels at 12c/kilowatt hour before I started. I would also expect that the Tesla superchargers would be cheaper. Since I installed a Tesla powerwall in early December I've only used solar power, but the only road trip I've done was just over 300 km which was a round trip so I didn't have to charge. I did calculate that to do 350 km on my KTM 390 Adventure motorcycle at 3.1 litres/100 km cost me $28. If I charged the Model 3 at home it would have been around $7 for the same distance. If I used the most expensive superchargers I've ever seen it would have been about $40.
Keep Justifying! You know on depreciation alone never mind all that expense you've gone to with solar and a power wall you are very badly in the red. Have a look at Carsales adverts for Tesla's and the pricing updates; you'll never be able to sell the thing. Factor that in to your smugness.
EV cope
Just admit it is pathetic champ..
Why are you paying 12c/kwh to charge from your own solar panels? 😂😂
@derser541 Because if I didn't charge the car I would export the excess power to the grid for 12c a kw/hr.
First of all, thank you very much for this great video. It's truly incredible how efficient modern diesel engines are. 6.5 liters per 100 km for such a luxury car is really amazing. And what's more, no particular attention was paid to particularly efficient driving. But the electric Bavarian Motor Works is also doing very well. 21 kW per 100 km is very good consumption for such a heavy car. In addition, everything that contributes to a pleasant journey has been switched on here too. If you now take a clear assessment of today's circumstances, you have to say that an electric car has to cover a lot of kilometers before it comes close to being CO2 neutral. If you compare all the costs, it is currently significantly cheaper to drive a modern diesel. Only when the electricity is produced more sustainably. This makes it significantly cheaper. And the batteries allow even more range, we have reached the right point. But even with all pollutant emissions from production onwards, the electric car would have to drive at least 200,000 km to come close to the emission of the diesel engine. So there is still a lot to do. Thank you very much and greetings from Bavaria.
That diesel is actually a petrol
@@greghajdu2569 Then it's even better!
you made the 7News with this test thats awesome 😃 keep up awesome vids Paul and co
Hey Paul. Good video! My only issue with this is the starting charge and topping back up at the end using public chargers. I don't think this is right as the majority of EV owners charge at home. I have a Tesla M3 and can say it would make zero sense to do that. Home charging on off-peak power is more like 18c per kwh. This ability to charge at home using cheap off-peak power is a key differentiator to ICE and it completely changes the result (EV ends up at $107.16). I'd suggest it would be more objective to seperate the 'on the road charging' from the home charging.
First charge wasn’t counted. We only calculated the cost of doing the road trip.
@@CarExpertAus Yes, but you include the cost of topping up to 100% at the end. In reality, that top up can be done at home for the EV owner where power is way cheaper. I think this ability to 'fuel up' at home is an important difference between EV and ICE and shouldn't be overlooked, given it makes a big difference to the numbers. Just my 2c. Thanks again for the video!
Fuel for me could not handle all that time waiting too charge a EV on a road trip. And I want your raptor Paul 😅
Appreciate the comments about extra time to charge to 100%, when to less may have been more efficient, but an additional two hours (maybe less )of your time, has a cost too. Say $30 per hour, after tax (???) as a number, lower vehicle cost, and way better sound from the ice, has the ICE way ahead., in my opinion. Great comparison.
I suspect the captain of industry that owns a new 7 series gets more than $30 per hour...
I drove Melb to Sydney 12 months ago in a 60kwh EV, stopped 4 times and was only charging 63mins total... the idea of owning an EV on these longer trips is to stop more frequently, but for less time... these massive battery EV's just don't make much sense on bid drives
i7 is capable of charging at 200kw from 2% to ~40% so there is a benefit of a larger battery, charge stops could be reduced if used properly (which it wasnt in this video)
This test was sadly stacked to be biased against EVs. Hence why it made it onto the mainstream news. But let the anti-EV crowd have their day, actual EV owners get it. In a year and a half of EV ownership, I have never had to visit a "fuel" station, and that includes country trips.
@@vasil7410 Cope 😂
That 4 stop is already joke.
@@kairikkolaHow is 900 km journey in 4 15min break a joke?
Obviously you should have topped up your EV to 80% and made an extra stop rather than all the way to 100%. EVs have a much faster charging time below 80% and slow down from 80-100%. It's dangerous driving 5+ hours without stopping anyway. To be more fair, your first charge would normally have been done at home where the cost of electricity is much cheaper.
Great episode.
Another thing to consider re: cost of charging. If my destination is home, I would be charging at a much lower price. @35c/kWh, the EV’s fuel would cost about $15 less. I would save even more if I had solar rooftop. So for me fuel cost is on par!
Now - I just need to save for a 7 series! Haha
or you can just get a petrol 7 series and save 30,000 upfront
Same here. Most of my charging is at home and we get an even better rate of 9.45 c/kwh. Currently driving a PHEV but will be moving on to an EV within the next year.
Installing solar costs money
Plenty of average speed cameras in the UK plus normal ones but, we have a 10% + 2mph tolerance for speeding. So on the motorway, 70mph, you'll be fine going through speed cameras at 77mph.
even if the electric did win, you still had to wait 1.5 hours, fuck that
Paul, another great comparison. Thanks for choosing the state of the art EV car to demonstrate what EV travel may look like in 10 years for common EV vehicles. Most people like you look at cost efficiency between EV and petrol car but overlook three most important factors, 1. Down time to charge EV 2. Security of your driver and passengers whilst waiting and 3. Comfort of your driver and passengers whilst waiting.
We typically prefer direct flight for our flying destinations even if it is little more expensive to avoid down time of waiting and changing flights. We also choose airlines that offers more comfortable seats, leg room and refreshments for a relaxing enjoyable flight journey. Same is true for long distance driving.
First, no families will accept an additional 1.5-2.0 waiting hours on their 9 hours trip between Melbourne and Sydney irrespective of fuel efficiency of EV. Most people currently has one stop 15-30m for fueling/refreshments and another 5-10m for leg stretch/amenities.
Secondly, most people would not want their family to either wait inside the car or petrol station after 9:00pm in a town between Melbourne and Sydney whilst the EV is being charged for 1.5-2.0 hours. There is very limited security in these places after hours.
Thirdly, no petrol stations are going to provide highly comfortable seats, quality air conditioned atmosphere in the waiting area and quality menu. It is simply not cost effective for them to do so. These places are designed to serve Australia's night drivers, namely, truck drivers who are on the road to make a living not for enjoyment. Aussie driver and passengers going on a holiday trip will need to endure 2 hours of sub-standard amenities and menu whilst EV is being charged. You will destroy your family's trip experience simply by doing this.
Bottom line EV has a long way to go to be an alternative to petrol vehicle for long distance driving. Thanks.
It really depends on your use case. If you do Sydney to Melbourne weekly, go petrol. If you do it once per year if that like most, go electric.
Time is money
where im at its been in the -40 range ambient for the past two weeks , I need to be topped off and on the road as soon as possible
At this time, the real winner will be the hybrid vehicle. No worries about getting to the next recharge station. No waiting for hours for the full recharge. Plus, superior fuel range than an ICE vehicle. IMHO, it will be at least another decade before an EV starts being the equal of a hybrid vehicle.
hybrids, like EVs lose their efficiency advantage on the open road. Driving a hybrid up the Hume is less efficient than the equivalent ICE vehicle as it has to carry the extra weight of electric motors and a battery. This could be made up in the stop/start city legs at the start and end of the trip, but not by much
As an owner of both EV & ICE- I 100% agree with this review! Love to watch Paul and the Channel except the reversing test😉
Not sure if it's relevant for the Australian market, but would like to see the BMW 740d take on the exact same trip.
It'd absolutely smash it even worse than the mighty B58 did.. To think that awesome engine in that big car with all that potential performance ran at 6L/100 is just incredible.. If you haven't seen it go watch Joe go 1100 miles in his diesel 730D from the UK to France.... Mind blowing efficiency..
Thanks! Will watch it @@malsmith2012
One thing to note about the 740i. It has the legendary BMW B58 inline 6 engine. These are the engines used in the Toyota Supra. If you haven't cottoned on to what that means, it's essentially BMW's most reliable engine ever made.
It's the stationary time that gets to me. The last time I did Sydney to Melbourne it was on a single tank of fuel - it was close to empty when I got there but no range anxiety as just so many refuelling options as I approached the city. I did a stop at Goulburn for a donut and soda, plus a couple of other times probably of 10 mins max duration each just toilet and a quick bounce around the car park. All up probably 40 mins stopped. The point is that I could choose when to stop rather than be forced into it by the car.
I can't stand cafes in general and hate tea/coffee so just keep a small car fridge with me packed with water/sodas/juices etc so stop time is purely dictated by toilet or tiredness breaks.
I'd be much more comfortable with EVs if they did a small commuter option, range 150ks which would cover the vast majority of my driving and because it would have a small battery pack could easily be charged from a normal mains socket. Yes, I know there's a few out there but something like a Kia Picanto EV would be perfect for me for general use but probably too expensive for Kia to make?
Good video though.
Exactly and god forbid if there's even a short lineup for a charger - you could be there for hours!
Completely respect your viewpoint and my suggestion would not completely alleviate the issues you identified:
1. You don't need a powerful dedicated charger. A mobile one that usually comes with the EV, drawing 10A would be able to charge the car overnight and give you the range you need everyday. At 200Wh/km (close to the figure in the video but remember EVs are far more efficient in town), and charging at 2400W, you would be able to gain 12km of range every hour, and a 10 hour overnight charge would therefore give you 120km a range per day.
2. Paul charged the car to the max for the purpose of the experiment, but in practice, I rarely charge above 80% on long trips because that's when you spend double amount of time to charge and turns the charging session from 30min to close to an hour. As other posts suggest, I would say you need around 2 charges of 20 minutes each and would still make the trip easily.
3. You "sort" of can choose where to stop for petrol/diesel, but that's more because we are used to the number and distribution of petrol stations. Like you wouldn't expect to see a petrol station in the hotel you are staying at but for EV you can plan for that.
4. The "cheapest" EV in Australia now is under $40k driveaway, still more expensive than the Picanto at $22k, but the difference is more manageable, and you do get slightly more car ignoring the drivetrain.
Here in NZ EV's are going to be subject to Road User Charges soon, that adds $76 per 1000km. The costs start to add up.
Your premium petrol is also about $3 per litre so adding $60 to the petrol cost.
You’re the only one who has mentioned road charges this will make EV s unbelievably expensive to run 👍
Now, try this on Norwegian winter temperatures of -10 to -20 Celsius, and that will both cut EV range by 30-40% as well as slow down charging speed a lot, so you'd probably need 3 full one hour charge on the way, plus the one at the destination... The ICE would become exponentially more advantageous under such conditions.
Hang on, boys! I'm not an EV fan at all. I'm pro hybrid and hydrogen technologies. But let understand this, your destination was alexandria, and you counted the last recharge there, so you left the i7 fully charge and 740 with the tank empty? Or the fuel left on the 740 was similar to the range of the i7 fully charge. Can you clarify that, please? The result wouldn't be fair if the ranges left on the cars were different. Cheers
I love these comparisons! ICE’s best environment for efficiency and cost vs an EV’s worst. And not to mention the time charging - although it is quicker to volt and bolt instead of charging all the way to 100% like at Tarcutta.
Wish you did one of these driving around Melbourne all week too. To see the comparison in the urban environment too would have been interesting because I know the results would likely be significantly different in the EV’s favour. And just refill the EV at home much cheaper.
That’d be a pointless test - the EV would be way cheaper.
@@CarExpertAus but unfortunately the average punter doesn’t understand or actually know that. They just see these comparisons and think EVs are more expensive to run and more inconvenient.
@@stuw4055But that’s a fact - for a road trip they’re far more inconvenient and more expensive. That’s what this story was about.
@@kasmstamps1897🤦♂️ that’s a dumb argument when you consider BMW sells ICE and EVs. You just sound salty because the test showed EVs are inconvenient and expensive for road trips. Can’t argue with facts.
Soooooo much cheaper to run a car in Oz.. We pay around $1.5 per kw public charging and $2.80 per litre for diesel in the UK. If you can’t charge at home it simply isn’t feasible to own an electric vehicle (and where I live in London, there are only TWO public chargers in the whole town).
I reckon some the additional charge will be heat loss through the cable. Great video again Paul.
Plus the fact that battery charging will never be 100% efficient. Will always be small losses.
The extra would also be battery cooling while charging at high current.
Last week I did a 650 km trip in an I7 from Munich to Davos and back, it`s winter here so temps between -7c to 3c and averaged 26.6 kW /100 kms.
You should do the same in a Tesla. Should be interesting using the Supercharger network in a pretty efficient vehicle
7 series is perfect. Both similar shape car but different platform. Easier to compare Apple to Apple.
@@paulsimpson8990Tesla supercharger always superior and efficient when stop between charging. BMW charging app can’t do what Tesla does.
@@paulsimpson8990 Best ice car would be Toyota Prius. Easy 1200km on single tank and cost way less to purchase. Low running cost and cheap insurance.
@@paulsimpson8990 Model Y best selling in Australia? What are you smoking mate?
@@Kashchey1wow 😂 Model Y. Have fun driving a lemmings car muppet..
Kind of fuels the point that no ev is not affordable nor saves time for long distance trips. Hope 800v architecture and Better and faster batteries will balance the time part but power cost I guess will keep going up...
In the biggest markets yes. In WA, ACT and NT the wholesale electricity prices are stable
Great video as always, curious does the EV take standard or premium coal?
Why pick a couple of Unobtainium vehicles from a manufacturer that's not exactly leading in EVs. They aren't the only EVs with petrol equivalents.
How about the Hyundai Kona Electric vs petorl Kona? Or the MG ZS EV vs the MG ZS?
In fact, a 2019 Kona Electric vs a 2019 Petrol Kona would be the best comparison as you would be comparing cars that people are more likely to own - i.e. not brand new vehicles, but several years old and that will highlight the differences even more - EVs lose range due to degradation, ICEVs lose efficiency due to older engine.
Hey Paul, great vid as always! Considering efficiency, would it be more time effective to charge to 80% and then travel to the next closest Charging station more often?
Yes, if you can make the distance.
In Tesla's case, and I would think applicable to some other EVs as well, the navigation guidance space out charging so that you only have to charge up to around 80% (lower in most cases) and you would still have enough charge to make it to the next charging station.
Agreed. Charging to 80 or 90% is more time efficient.
Not forgetting the cost difference between an EV and equivalent ICE car. In this case the i7 is not only more expensive to drive but also to buy and will depreciate even more than the ice 7. Loss loss situation all the way
The cost difference gets eaten away quickly when you start paying for servicing on the ICE compared to an EV. Also at the moment EV are FBT free if you salary package one.
@ozcurly1 dude just one example of the many. MG ev is 20k more expensive than its equivalent iCE vehicle. 20k will buy lots of fuel and services.
@@wewemjingaWell if you convert 20k to just fuel, you get almost 1000 gallons of fuel, which is enough for 1.5 years for average American.
@frankreynolds9930 your maths is not correct or you just use a lot fuel. Down under on average 20k will get you around 9years worth fuel with current pricing on the MG
@@wewemjinga Sorry. Missed a zero. Still, they keep increasing gas price so it won't be same in few years let alone 10.
Great video. I did the same trip over the holidays in a diesel X3 (avg 6.1L/100km) car was fully loaded. I was wondering how much more efficient a petrol or an EV would be. The 740i was impressive! Well done Paul.
Just for comparison I have an Audi A6 Biturbo 3l diesel. It weighs a touch over 1800kg. I regularly get 5.6l per 100 at 110kph between GC and Brisbane. That’s 45mpg. To me that is economical motoring, even compared to an EV.
@@davidhancock91Diesel is the way to go for economy with large European cars because most petrol models take RON 95 or 98 premium unleaded adding almost 20c per litre.
So you take two cars noone can afford, on a trip noone really does, in a way noone really takes it. Top journalism Paul...
Love these comparisons, it just depends how you calculate the numbers, if i leave with a full charge costing zero. 2 short stops of 15 min would get me all the way to sydney from melb. This way would calculate cheaper and closer.
Either way you won't satisfy the EV haters or EV cult.
Great video, more content on the i7 would be amazing.
I agree, I was going to say how this trip could be much more optimised from a charging cost perspective (and halving the charging cost in the process), but it does depend on whether you have your own charging station at home and whether you need a full battery again at your destination.
One could argue that this requires so much more additional thinking, but I would argue that you don't have to, and an ICE vehicle would not even give you that option.
@@alannglito complicated. You’d have to factor the cost of electricity at home. Only a tiny percentage of the population is on battery to charge the vehicle. Solar doesn’t count because you’re charging mostly at night at peak usage charges. So I guess you could work out the average kWh rate for the state and work out the full take of fuel vs full battery @ that rate.
Exactly this
@@ablet85 When I say optimise I didn't mean charging based on time of use tariff at home, I mean you simply minimise the charge at fast charging stations, which cost more than double of the peak electricity tariff in my case. It's the same as someone filling up their car with cheaper petrol in town, and avoid filling up with high petrol prices on the highway.
This was an absolute objective comparison and if the government doesn't step in soon to rain in those charging costs, then they might just kill the EV market in Australia. We have a brand new KIA EV6 AWD and it's higher costs need to be offset via lower running costs. Luckily we have a large solar system that is capable to cover the charges for our daily drives, but the majority in Australia do not have that option. Evie has just announced that they are upping the charging costs even more. Now $0.75/KWH for the 350KW charger.
I love this channel. Electric cars make sense in small packages for city use only.
Last year, I did a 5,869 km road trip around South Australia (including the Flinders Ranges and Eyre and York Peninsulas) in my Tesla Model 3. The charging cost was $167.70.
Got to be kidding right . My Subaru liberty doesn’t even go as far as my ev ! Quit living in the dinosaur age
@@michaelfink64 Must have been going in circles a lot! I did about the same distance from Bris to Adelaide and back via Melb.
@@aussieideasman8498 It was a holiday, not a straight run: Melbourne -> Mildura -> Berri -> Clare -> Flinders Ranges -> Whyalla -> Port Lincoln -> Point Turton -> Nuriootpa -> Glenelg -> Mount Lofty -> McLaren Vale -> Kangaroo Island -> Victor Harbor -> Robe -> Penola -> Mount Gambier -> Princetown -> Melbourne.
@sheepyracing2774, How? My 07 outback does Melbourne to Adelaide in one tank. 59Litres to refill to full out of a 63L tank.
I just drove to Adelaide from Melbourne and back. I have a Mazda 3 and I need a full tank per journey. And was cheaper than flying for two people.
That EV wasn't even pushed much. More or less perfect conditions when your entire trip is on cruise control. Just proved us that all this EV agenda is actually no benefits at all and hella much things to worry about.
EVs get better economy driving around the suburbs than the open road, ICE vehicles prefer the open road, the opposite. So perfect conditions for the ICE vehicle for the EV not so much.
Utter absurd nonsense. They specifically said they did not want to use the BEV efficiently. They just did what ever was comfortable. You didn't has to state blatant falsehood to push your silly agenda.
@@NeojhunNot what I said you can't do a long range highway test for an EV and an ICE vehicle and extrapolate that for all types of driving. EVs do better in stop start traffic, all they did was not put into ECO mode or run the air conditioner at 2 degrees higher. They acknowledge this the original poster, did the extrapoltaion to all types of driving based on a test solely done at highway speeds. Go look at fuel economy stats for ICE vehicles they will publish a city, a highway and a combined reading.
Well done car expert, as an EV and ICE car owner- I think this is a pretty fair test and presented pretty objectively. Similar to results I’ve seen in my Model Y LR and Passat R line.
Sadly though, I think the biased people will take this completely the wrong way.
65c/kwh is very high in price, whereas it’s quite common to get a 50-55c for 50-70kw chargers or free for
Evie just increased their prices by up to 40% - the cheap electric future is quickly evaporating…
You do realise you do most of your charging at home using cheaper residential electricity rates just like your other electronic devices right 😆
Those fast chargers are only applicable if you're doing the odd road trip across to other cities, which seldom occur, like a couple of times a year, if not less for most.
Man… Joe you went down under to meet another car reviewer? I also watch reviews from Paul at CarExpert; Great stuff!
So the EV in this test costs more to buy, costs more to charge up, requires you to wait much longer at a charging station.
Even if you drive it mainly in city (which is where the benefits of an EV shine), the price premium over an ICE still doesn't justify it for me.
The pros are the quieter ride, zippier acceleration.
And they depreciate more than petrol ones
Between Melbourne and Sydney........... complete eye roll. Apparently thats travelling around in Australia between the two major cities. Go from Sydney to Brisbane, go from SA to Perth, go from WA to the NT and across the NT mate...
Can't say for the other locations, but Sydney to Brisbane would be fine, plenty of charging stations in between.
Imagine looking for a charger in Eucla ... XD
result is basically the same, doesnt change anything.
Great video Paul and Joe. It would be interesting to see the difference if it wasn’t a road trip but a month of running around the burbs as the vast majority of motorists do. I suspect the EV would end up cheaper to run (but still overall more expensive as EV version costs more to buy initially). The ROI probably would never stack up for EV. It is just down to preference at the end of the day.
repairs are hideously expensive for electric and zero resale so ev's are shit
My personal experience suggest that you would save heaps in the scenario of "running about the burbs", but that's contingent on you having a charger at home. if you don't, you would still be able to charge at a lower rate than the chargers in the middle of nowhere, but the savings would be just something nice rather than massive one.
My own data suggest that I spent less than $900 on electricity for about 18,000km of driving, which includes a number of long trips that require more expensive fast charging. Admittedly that happened before fast charging got expensive and I have been able to enjoy quite a few free charging sessions at the places I visit.
@@alanngli I calculate circa 3.5 litrs/100km is the equivalent cost to run my Etron S (which is a heavy user of electrons). This Calc is done on a cost basis (ie: the same cost to charge is the same cost as petrol at 3.5 l/100kms. Here in Aus approx $7.00 per 100kms). Not bad really for a low 4 sec to 100kmph SUV…
I'd rather drive my unwieldy Patrol around the burbs than the BMW which weighs the same and is also huge and unwieldy for suburban use. It also costs 75% less to buy, and won't burn my house down when it spontaneously combusts.
@@einfelder8262 just park it on the street, you’ll be right!! :-). So far (fingers crossed) no spontaneous combustion for me, however I hear your point. FYI, I wouldn’t buy the BMW either but that’s down to the fixation BMW has with forcing wireless CarPlay (no wired option at all). It drops out all the time in Perth and is useless.
Diesel would be best choice for long distance travel. My experience is with 2019 BMW 5 series 530d diesel with 62L fuel capacity, traveled from Sydney to Melbourne with just one tank without need for any refueling!