Morality in Jin-Roh's Intertext
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- First short form of 2016!
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Stray Notes:
- Anybody ever played Killzone?
- For a bit more of an interesting read, Kenro Densetsu is a fantastic piece of original source material to check out
- I strongly recommend David Kaplan and Alec Dubro's "Yakuza: Japan's Criminal Underworld" (it's linked in the text section); it's a great read
Text:
- en.wikipedia.o...
- everything.expl...
- en.wikipedia.o...
- Samuels, Richard. Kishi and Corruption: An Anatomy of the 1955 System, www.jpri.org/pu...
- Kaplan, David and Alec Dubro. Yakuza: Japan's Criminal Underworld. 2012.
- Johnson, Chalmers. The 1955 System and the American Connection: A Bibliographic Introduction, www.jpri.org/pu...
- en.wikipedia.o...
- Sarkar, Anoop. "Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade" by Mamoru Oshii, www.cs.sfu.ca/~...
- Multilingual Folk Database, www.mftd.org/in...
- en.wikipedia.o...
- Greenhill, Pauline and Steven Kohm. Hoodwinked and Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade, Marvels and Tales 27 (2012).
- Johnston, Eric. Public Protect in Japan, www.japantimes....
Video:
- Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade
- Assassination of Inejiro Asanuma, www.dailymotion...
Audio:
- There's Probably No Time by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
Source: chriszabriskie....
Artist: chriszabriskie....
- Oxygen Garden by Chris Zabriskie
Source: chriszabriskie....
Artist: chriszabriskie....
Jin-Roh is a love story about a man and his power armor. There's some confusion in the middle when some woman gives him second thoughts, but it all wraps up with him embracing his power armor again. Great movie.
Real.
This is the true plot, there was no woman ever.
Just a man and his German lend-lease power armor after the Germans nuked Japan (as well in this timeline).
Lol, Jin Roh is also part of a much bigger series from Japan (don’t bother with the rest it’s not as good) and most of the other movies are about ex-Panzer cops trying to find their armor again, so you may be on to something
@@B4CKWARDS_CH4RM I know actually I read that there are other series, I've read the Kerberos Panzer Cop manga and it's actually pretty alright.
The enclave would be proud
yesyesyesyesyesyesyes
The last reference was so accurate. Some times we don't have the good guys and bad guys at all. Some times we don't have victims or villains. Some times we just have people...
Evil people are created because people were once evil to them. A life of sorrow and misery compels you to act it out upon others. Of course, some people end up becoming villains due to errors in their brains, in their genetics: insanity, something which no one can say why they were given a bad hand, while others are empathetic and caring. In the end, there isn't good or bad. Just causes and effects governing reality.
We are not inherently good. If we were, power would not reveal corruption, but kindness.
Perhaps, Human Nature is not inherently "good" or "bad".
I would think that authoritarian government would be bad people here?
@@Blizzhobbs its so easy to talk about a life of plent and painfreeness when an artificial heaven is built upon the stolen carcasses of those that came before it. Its real easy
I know they're MG42s, I made a mistake. Sorry about that!
Hm, sure about that? Those look like the MG42 flash hiders rather than the MG3's. Also, I think all vers of the 42 had rectangular barrel shrouds rather that round ones (like the MG34's). On an alternate history point, the idea behind the MG3 was to have an MG42 in 7.62mm NATO. Seeing as Jin-Roh's timeline has Germany winning WW2, I think they would have kept it in the original 8mm mauser.
Pause and Select They certainly not brownings. They look like guns nazis used during world war 2. Brownings were used by the US. BARs they were called. "Browning Automatic/Assault Rifles." I think. MG42s were used by the Germans.
They are MG 42's. The rectangular barrel shrouds, as Nephi895 already pointed out, are quite distinctive. When you look at the picture in the link below, the guy in the front is brandishing an MG42, while the other two have MG 34s.
memes1.fjcdn.com/pictures/The+job+you+want_33cee3_6175327.jpg
And just for the record, the MG 42, as well as its predecessor MG 34, used the 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser round, the same round that was used for Mausers 98k carbine.
Pause and Select I never seen jin_rohs movie are the solders german Nazis ???
Pause and Select And I actually thought they were CETME Amelis
"Sometimes we don't have victims and villains. Sometimes we just have people." What a good quote.
A lil ironic coming from o5 council
@@nightsofterror_ XD
Actually those machine guns are modeled off the popular Nerf N-strike elites used by the americans to defeat the Spanish in 1776
Thanks Bubby everyone already told me they were popular Nerf N-strike elites but I didn't know they were used to defeat the Spanish in 1776 you learn something new [anime]everyday!
Bubby hahah
they look a bit like STG-44's and MG-42's to me with the assault rifles and heavy MG's but they also look like Wolfenstein Nazi's so yeah...
Jacob Kolb, your completely right. but the mg 42 in this is a bigger model the axis used on tanks and for turrets because this version is belt feed rather then magazine feed
James Pummell You have no idea what you're talking about do you...
I think the most morally troubling question in the movie is posed near the end, when Kazuki is asked by Henry "Why didn't you shoot her?", her being the bomb courier from the beginning. It just brings up MORE questions, was it truly his moral judgement interfering with Kazuki's duty or was it a ploy from the beginning? It could mean the special unit was in fact the victim from the beginning, that they reacted in self defense or that it was their plan to seize more control from the beginning. Did it mean that Kazuki ever really had a love interest in Kei or was it that in the end he hesitated because she was just a bystander. Or was Kazuki fantasizing about killing her and her being torn into by wolves to purge his own sins of failure or was it a sexual fantasy of what he knew he would eventually have to do? I think the movie is one that lets you decide who was morally in the right or wrong, if you prefer peace through order or peace through freedom. Both are portrayed as wolves at different points throughout the film, but in the end, the only true wolf was Kazuki. From the beginning he knew everything, he knew Henry was playing him, he knew Kei was planted for him to find, he was the wolf in mothers clothing all along, just to the audience when you are watching it, it appears that he is in a moral dilemma, that whether or not he did have feelings for Kei, those feelings were either faked or if they were real, were something he knew he would have to eventually discard. Despite Kei's previous crimes and unwillingness the only emotion we know was true, was that she did love Kazuki. Kazuki knew these were false from the beginning and so when she revealed that she developed actual feelings, he was shocked. But in the end, the only wolf was Kazuki, because he played Kei and killed her, thus completing his hunt
mucho texto
I wondered the exact same thing the first time I watched it! At this scene with Henry I kind of sat back and thought "Wait a minute, was this Fuse's plan all along? Did he not kill the girl on purpose? WTF???"
@@CamH-mc5wt I don't think so. Maybe he was human after all.
Ok this is too big brain, can we just make it simple and just say Kazuki did have feelings but duty is more important jeez I don't want this to be another Metal Gear Solid lore speculation.
The man/beast dichotomy is present troughout the movie. Fuse is a man, who trough intensive military and psychological training became a superweapon. The panzer corps are neither cops or military, they are referred to "a third way" in the movie, which was a fascist slogan. He is part of a secret group in a death squad, and this requires being able to kill without second toughts.
Of course being turned into a literal killing machine is not easy, and it takes him an entire movie to come to terms with what it means.
He starts the movie in his armor, as a wolf. After he fails to shoot a teenage girl with a bomb his self image as a wolf is literally shattered, as he takes off his mask to reveal his human self. troughout the film he self reflects on what it means to endorse his responsibilities as part of a death squad and shed his humanity. He is fully human in every scene that takes place during the day. During the scene where he cleans his gun at night, the clouds disperse revealing the moon, he gets a phone call and turns back into a wolf, successfully defeating an ambush squad. As he runs away with the girl they hide for some time, the clouds mask the moon and he turns human again, kissing her and showing her love and compassion.
Right before the police squad enters the sewers, and while he is being dressed in his armor, the clouds disperse once again and he massacres the cops like a wolf.
In the ending scene he is confronted by the master spy, the leader of the pack, on the fact that he cannot hesitate any longer and has to choose whether he is a man or a wolf. He makes his choice right at sunrise.
Yes they are indeed MG-42s, but good on you for making the correction. Still since you've brought up symbolism that I did not consider before. I'd like to offer one of my own, The MG-42 was as much as psychological weapon as a practical one, In U.S. Soldier training, it was pointed how that it's bark was worse than it's bite. Well infact it's bite was very much worse than it's bark. The actual sound of an MG-42 firing is akin to the sound of canvas tearing, at 1200 rounds per minute, you don't even hear individual rounds fire, it's a sound one never forgets and even when you see one fire for recreational purposes, leaves one feeling cold and frightened. I would submit to you that the more benign dull droning of the MG-42's in Jin-Roh would symbolize how mundane this has become. Like the sound of a fridge motor humming in the background, or a car engine. This has become routine, normal... the world in Jin-Roh's alternate Japan has become violant where it's become dog eat dog, and those rising to the top are the wolves. The only time where a gunshot sounds dangerous and it's epic enough to be attention grabbing is the C-96 pistol at the end that Fuze kills Kei with... That was the one time where the taking of a life was given the gravitas and finality that mattered.... Just food for thought, I'll stop rambling now.
I really like this theory. It makes too much sense to be dismissed even if it is coincidental or unintentional the meaning is still undoubtedly important.
It's an incredible theory, but the death squad theme and brutal one-sided fight scenes are all I can think of right now.
I like what you’re putting down
The modern version, the MG3 is the same gun, but with some minor, and I mean minor modifications. It has an AA sight and it is chambered in 7.62x51mm. (.308 is 7.68x51mm, and a very similar cartridge)
Having been part of a group that shot four of them at the same time and watched the vegetation, for lack of a better word, just go away... That gun is scary. That gun is a demotivational tool and a firepower factory that is unmatched by anything else today. You squeeze the trigger ever so slightly, and 7 full sized rounds has already exited the barrel. The sound is scary.
Thank fuck we have them and the Russians don't.
Tbf the bark kinda was worse than it’s bite. 1600rpm was a much less sustainable rate of fire and getting hit with multiple rifle rounds sucks no matter how fast they’re being spat into you
JIN ROH is the greatest anime movie ever made!!!
"WE ARE NOT MEN WHO DRESS AS DOGS......... WE ARE WOLVES DESGUISED AS MEN!"
Animals pretending to be humans...interesting concept indeed.
@@cat_loaf943 and pretending to have morals
...
@@alessandrott7568 of course, since morals don't exist lol.
they are fake as the imaginary friends we make up.
every thing even time is just the human measurement of movement of atoms in our universe and change. ethics and morals is just a perception and doesn't exist.
@@NeostormXLMAX that's some deep shit
So...furries?
There's always a villain and always a victim, but they might just switch places right at the past second.
Hello Bird!
Don't put villain as the counter part to victim. The "victim" to a violent act does not always get it from a villain. A victim can just as well be a bad person. Hitler almost was "a victim" too an assassination. It doesn't make his killers bad.
As a big Panzer Cop fan.
I was absolutely pissed and disappointed at the Korean remake of Jin-Roh.
The ending's changed into a happy one, and it lost all symbolism and contradicted itself big time. All because the Koreans love the "True Love wins over all" cliche.
Rap Zalsos agreed. I saw the netflix adaptation first, and the whole time I was watching the anime I couldn't help but think how the korean version was better. Until the ending. The anime concludes in a much better way.
That seriously sucks.
Why even change the ending that makes no sense
The only thing i like about the movie is how well made the Panzer Cop's armor and it's gear. The rest are just disappointing
Its rather odd aswell, because if you look at korean horror and thrillers they often end in dark and open endings
@@deathtrooper199 You know, I can forgive the poor handling of the ending for the simple fact that they doubled down on the technical stuff like the armor and gear. It looks so much cleaner, much more intimidating.. I love it.
I watched Jin-Roh for the first time a few nights ago. It was absolutely fascinating, and your analysis really helps break it down. Great work.
+Ryan Kent Cheers, thanks a lot man!
this video is for people who wanted a good analysis about Jin-Roh: the Wolf Brigade
what most people see about Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade
ruclips.net/video/TVbDZBz2Ago/видео.html
Amazing analysis and break down of the themes! This video was very informative and thought provoking
Thanks man!
Hey P&S, what's up?
I want to share my thoughts on this with you, as a viewer. I'm just one guy with an opinion like everybody else, and this may seem like critisicm, and maybe it is, but I have nothing but love for ya brother.
I think you narrated this video too fast. Meaning the background music and the narration sounded like they're both parting ways and going the opposite direction, further and further, never to meet again. I mean you're incredibly informative, and you're truly great at it, but I think we both understand that entertainment is important. People became numb these days, thanks to mainstream media, so it takes certain effort to get their attention.
You also have an amazing vocabulary, better than mine, but that may hinder you from acknowledging your subscribers' prespective. I'm saying I had to pause the video to google a couple words haha, otherwise the video's less impactful. Sometimes simple can be better.
For example, at 11:24 (the moment I subbed,) narration(pace) became more and more suitable as time passed, right up until the end.
I also want you to know I think this might be one of the best RUclips videos I had the plesure to watch. Potent af analysis and break down, not a single detail left un-fucked haha... It's authentic, compassionate, thoughtfull and brave. You might actually have an impact on people's views!
May the wind always be at your back, and the sun on your face : )
Haha, I don't know about brave, but I really appreciate your kind words man!
And I'll definitely take that speed into consideration. I'm still trying to find this perfect speed, I think audio editing and narration is my weakest point right now, haha. I do appreciate the criticism though, I'm not going to get better unless people are honest with me, and I'm really glad you are!
I've sorta moved into the wordier aspect of it, but I think it's also because I've gotten a lot more precise with my language. So while they are a little harder to understand, they condense more information. I don't know if that's the case, but I am definitely taking your thoughts into consideration, and thank you very much for watching this video and leaving a comment!
This is the best video of Jin-roh I've sen on YT. I don't know why your channel doesn't have more subs and views, but you've made one out of me.
+crimsonshadow42 I'm terrible at SEO and my videos are really hit and miss. Looks like people either really like them or really hate them.
But I'm really happy you enjoy it, and hope you stick around for a while. Thanks for the kind words and sub man!
Ah yes, Jin-Roh.
You go in expecting The Adventures of Cosplay Nazi Murderman and get Internal Affairs.
Lol
Jin-Roh easily is my favorite anime movie. I'm satisfied that someone was able to dissect some of its themes since there really isn't anything on RUclips for the movie. *subscribed*
There's Demolition D's review of Jin-Roh, which while is not as serious as mine, is still really insightful. Have you checked it out?
of course the government is an opressive brutal regime,through the eyes of the rebellion,but no one ever bothers to ask,what's it like through the eyes of an imperial?
Stfu. It's pretty obvious.
Jill kjhklhklhkl you are a moron. Why even comment at all?
zzurge 117 this is the view point movies will never show
@@thekingofcartoons9027 right. The idea of "punching a nazi" is something to cheer about to many or even most Americans. Those same Americans who shun violence against any person. Those same Americans who preach to love and accept all people of all walks of life. Diversity is our strength, they will say. But a nazi, in their eyes, is no longer human. I have watched many of Hitler's speeches. I have seen many photographs of Germany in that era. The presence of emotion is so overwhelming, the nazis were certainly very human. But the people who so strongly hate what they even just perceive to be nazis no longer recognize the humanity of someone who has chosen a different path. People must wake up and realize that these "nazis" are people too, and treating them as less than human won't make them any "more human". We're all guilty of ignorance of each other's situations, I can only hope that one day everyone can look at their fellow man with a sense of understanding, but looks like that won't be any time soon ):
@@rossomex12 agreed but we also gotta stop treating nazism and parties that cater to similar ideologies as political movements and ideas. extremist movements of any kind need to be crushed and any followers or sympathizers need to go to deradicalization centers and be integrated back into society.
amazing analysis, very well written and spoken.
subbed and liked
+Solaire of Astora Praise the sun!
+Solaire of Astora Praise the sun!
+Solaire of Astora On top of that the actual production values are top notch.
lubed virgin olives on maternity leave ...uh, praise the sun?
One thing I noticed watching the film again was how the man/beast dichotomy is complemented by meteorology and the moon, echoing the theme of the werewolf. Fuse is a man, who trough intensive military and psychological training became a cold hearted killer, a wolf. The panzer corps are neither cops or military, they are referred to as "a third way" in the movie, which was a fascist slogan. He is part of a secret group in a death squad, and this requires being able to kill without second toughts.
Of course being turned into a literal killing machine is not easy, and it takes him an entire movie to come to terms with what it means.
He starts the movie in his armor, as a wolf. After he fails to shoot a teenage girl with a bomb his self image as a wolf is shattered, as he takes off his mask to reveal he is still human. troughout the film he self reflects on what it means to endorse his responsibilities as part of a death squad and shed his humanity. He is fully human in every scene that takes place during the day, spending time and bonding with kei in normal settings. During the scene where he cleans his gun at night, the clouds disperse revealing the moon, he gets a phone call and turns back into a wolf, successfully defeating an ambush squad. As he runs away with the girl they hide for some time, the clouds mask the moon and he turns human again, kissing her and showing her love and compassion.
Right before the police squad enters the sewers, and while he is being dressed in his armor, the clouds disperse once again and he massacres the cops like a wolf.
In the ending scene he is confronted by the master spy, the leader of the pack, on the fact that he cannot hesitate any longer and has to choose whether he is a man or a wolf. He makes his choice right right sunrise, symbolising his commitment.
I feel like a point is being missed by even having regarded good vs bad. In my opinion when the film is referring to wolves and humans it is referring to two fundamentally different mentalities that have been present in humanity since the beginning of civilization perhaps. The first being the soldier, authority, or anybody that would perhaps be considered stoic in nature. Valuing duty, tradition and discipline. The other being more libertine, freethinking. Who would feel poisoned in the structured utopia of his opposite. The rebel, the artist, epicurean. Of course not everybody is destined to one of these extremes, but we are often certainly closer to one than the other. I believe that this simple difference when unnoticed causes many issues, but what the answer may be I have no idea.
The Korean live action remake totally missed the theme of this animation
4:07
those aren't browning machineguns, they are MG-42s
+GryphonGaming Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification, it's very clear I ain't good with guns, haha.
lubed virgin olives on maternity leave Well, I learned something new about guns, so I'm really grateful!
GryphGaming Ordinarily it wouldn't be a big deal but it's very important to the film that every weapon used dates to Nazi Germany, except for a few used by the Sect.
Pause and Select The MG-42 was one of the fastest firing machine guns ever made, the nazis could use them to tear men literally in two, and it was one of the first weapons to be made using steel pressing techniques, allowing it to fire faster and have less jams than most LMGs before it.
Black Templar 1400 rpm on a single barreled machine gun. They called it the "german buzz saw "
K is Potassium
Brilliant video! Both this video and the film itself are highly underrated.
Thank you very much for the kind words!
I've seen Jin-Roh many times and never have I been able to articulate my thoughts on it as well as you have for me. Your channel is really, really nice, and I know you'll be gaining lots of subscribers if you keep this up. Look forward to more!
Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words!
People are crazy, yet not.
yooooooooooo
Pause and Select I subscribed to your channel recently, btw. Great and informative videos, man.
The RUclips Rookie Thanks man!
what a superb analysis i too felt the inter text but this in depth take on is so perfect and close to understanding this masterpiece
Thanks Taimur!
I thought that at the end, when she recited the ending of little red riding hood, she forced him to have a traumatic episode and he unintentionally shot her. I wonder if looked at in that way Kazuki is the victim because he didn't get a choice to be the villain or not, they were going to shoot her anyway, so why did they even give him the choice?
To find out if he has it in him... sadly.
Only guessing.
Greetings from 5 years now :).
He put himself in the position where he had to carry out the killing. Actions from the past should be just as put into the equation as momentary ones. You can't call someone blameless for a situation judt because "in the moment" he had no choice. He had one before that, applying for the job. He had one before that, choosing too be a unit.
I can't say that I got the same sense of the government being totalitarian when I watch Jin-Roh (besides the nazi uniforms). The movie begins with explaining how militant revolutionaries are basically waging a war on what we might as well asume is a democratic regime (I can't remember that they ever mentioned anything, but that was the wibe I got and that is what post-war Japan was), and that the somewhat brutal capitol police is created as a reaction to that violence. It would seem to me that the revolutionaries are the instigators of violence, and that the police brutality is a reaction. Even in the interactions between the capitol police and the revolutionaries the police show restraint. If it was Nazi Germany that the movie took place in, I doubt that the police would allow the rioting to happen or attempt to arrest them in the scene in the sewers.
Again, morality isn't as simple.
It's ironic you bring up Nazi Germany since Jin-Roh is based in an alternate reality where Nazi Germany conquers Japan. The brutal police and the revolutionaries are not instigating the violence. Also, if you think Nazi Germany wouldn't specifically act in order to take prisoners, you're mistaken. Why simply shoot a man if he has valuable information? Even one of the police says this in the film. It goes back to your point that morality isn't simple. Although the basis of the film is an authoritarian government suppressing its citizens, Fuse didn't represent the government, and the government didn't represent him. The government is an abstract concept while the people behind it are real. Morality is complex indeed.
I always thought they refer to the student riots in the sixties...
@@dingdongpo According to the radio drama, the Nazis were ousted after a successful assassination attempt on Hitler, and the Weimar Republic was reestablished. Using their powerful army (Wehrmacht, now named Reichswehr again), they continued on with the invasion of the Soviet Union, and later on, Japan.
That’s right, it’s a timeline where the July 20th plot was successful I believe. It’s wrong to say Nazi Germany conquered Japan but it’s clear that the new government was still authoritarian and expansionistic in nature.
@@Kaleghoul Considering the officers behind the July 20th plot were all either Nazis themselves or members of the other various right wing, monarchist, or Prussian aristocratic factions which first led and then followed the Nazis in the 20s and 30s, and that they continued the war, it's clear that this wasn't quite the same Weimar Republic as before. It's obviously very militaristic and imperialistic, just less "pure" in their politics than the Nazis were. A right-wing oligarchy instead of a far-right dictatorship, or something like the Hindenburg/Ludendorf military dictatorship during the second half of World War 1.
Lol this was a straight up college thesis! Also I love your Junji Ito profile Pic.
lol thanks Michael!
fantastic exploration and breakdown of themes. i found this film to be one of the most depressing i've ever watched, but after watching your insightful explosion of themes i may have to revisit it. thank you for taking the time to so keenly unwrap this package.
I've Jin-Roh like, 7-8 times. Probably my favourite anime film. Definitely rewatch it, it's amazing!
Those that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin
My impression was that the moral of Jin Roh is that everyone, even people who may do terrible things are ultimately themselves victims under totalitarian or otherwise oppressive regimes. In other words, everyone is a victim and the system can and will turn victims in monsters and vice versa given the chance.
I got that impression too. Modern oppressive regime's don't work the same ways as the old ones, the regime itself doesn't hunt down and persecute certain "Sects" of people (for the most part), instead, it relies on spreading fear and prejudice via mass media in order to turn *the people* against one another. The regime is still able to enact the same political violence as usual, they just don't have to pull any triggers to make that happen.
@@RadonX9 An excellent way to put it. It's something that developed over the timeline of the Cold War, too, which puts Jin Roh into a further context beyond that of 20s/30s Japanese militarism (competing paramilitary factions) and the 60s/70s left-wing protest movements. Think of Mao's great cultural revolution and how urban university students weren't forced to attack certain groups, but allowed, and therefore gently encouraged, to take aim at groups with tacit institutional backing. Any past movement with paramilitary or even completely unaffiliated extremist wings can be taken as inspiration for today's authoritarian governments, only stepping in to do the dirty work when absolutely necessary and using violent protest movements to hide themselves behind a veneer of popular sovereignty.
I will say that in this video the analysis is superb, but the conclusion is a bit heavy handed. Mamoru Oshii was still one of those left-wing protestors in the 70s. He didn't leave all that to say "you know, maybe militarism isn't such a bad thing after all." He's obviously disillusioned, but he also makes a strong statement on just how willing we are to side with those in power. Not only in a political or military sense, but also in a narrative one. Fuse isn't a villain, but he ultimately goes along with the plot of his fellow paramilitary comrades--not a plot to help other people, but to preserve their own paramilitary unit. Their motivations are opaque, and what little we see isn't very inspiring. But they're good at what they do, and survive despite the odds, despite the fact that they do harm both to their own government, whom they ostensibly fight for, and the insurgents who are caught up in this scheme. They treat human lives like hamburger meat, processing and consuming until it's useless and promptly thrown away. But we want Fuse to succeed, whatever he ends up doing.
We treat the death of Kei as a release from the overwhelming tension that consumes Fuse--kill her, or die. Her agency is gone from the moment she joins the plot. That's certainly victimhood. It's still damning to the society they live in, an authoritarian puppet government that can't control their own armed security forces, let alone the people at large. The problem becomes one that balloons out way outside the proportions of the surprisingly intimate story we follow in Jin Roh, and that of course abstracts it. Can any one person be pointed at to blame for what happens? No, of course not. But we can see these characters' choices, the few choices they actually are allowed to make for themselves, point the plot towards something that holds up the broken status quo. They can't live outside of this society even when they have a chance to rebel. Is morality itself being criticized by Oshii? I don't think so, but one can see how broken this world order has made Japan.
As an aside, of all the alt history "uhhh what if the Nazis won WW2 folks?" scenarios out there, the Kerberos Saga is by far the best because it doesn't pain the world as an extension of the Nazis' worst crimes, but as suffering under the extension of Nazi Germany's worst institutional failures. Just like we can see the USA's liberal order break apart under the weight of our schizophrenic capitalist system in this world, we can see the totalitarian fascism of Nazi Germany crumble to dust in the absence of anything left to pillage and consume.
SOMETIMES they are the hero of their own story
Something that struck me as a theme was that everyone just wanted to belong, the revolutionaries, reaguler civs, and the government they where all doing what they thought best to reach their ideal world that they belonged in
@@BrorealeK great insight. the video sort of espouses a "violence on both sides" political narrative, which to me is a little cheap because it doesn't care to acknowledge that one side significantly outmatches the other; but it does offer a thoughtful perspective on the interpersonal dynamics of the movie, which lines up with Viktor's observation that everyone is harmed by oppressive systems.
Surprisingly Jin-Roh is poorly rated and criticized as a terrible film, But after sitting and down and watching it, This movie is a near perfection. It's something about classic Anime films that just tell some of the greatest narratives, Some which modern anime doesn't even come close too.
Jin-Roh is a good film but there are still good anime films being produced today. ~ Skrullz
Just want to simply say, Thank you for this.
I watched Jin-Roh yesterday and I gotta say you did an excellent job at analyzing all the scenes and applying it to how they connected to emotional and historical events in real life. 👍
Thanks Yoan!
Kei personally experienced what many do In everyday society. Thinking about how to overcome the system, only to sadly realize it's so much easier to go along with it. Just do, don't think. The system is designed to wear you down/out
The prologue brings great opposites together, and very hard concepts.
The police wants peace. But with peace, they are protecting the oppressors. However if they or the people turn against the governers, then chaos will ensue and the social construct/society will fall a part. In worst case a third party might grab power.
This also pokes the idea that many have been argueing about. What is better? A benevolent dictator, leading the country well, and bringing properity... or a flawed democracy where nobody wants to work with one another?
The idea is of course very flawed and would not make sense in most cases. But it does open questions.
In case of Jin-Roh, it's an oppressing police state. Supposedly it works well, but just like any other dictatorship, it has it's own limitations, and from that more and more conflict arises. People are being held back.
However people are already bombing. If there is an extremism present in such a huge mass, support, infrastracture.. then if this state falls, another oppressor will take lead for sure.
Fantastic video, this did a great job of illustrating what questions this film poses and I'm excited to re watch with this insight.
because of your video i found this movie, and what an incredible experience it was. an unbelievable emotional piece of art and for sure one of the best anime movies ever
I watched this movie and now watching this , the story becomes even much more deeper and much more tragic for me . Jin-Roh did an really good job.
Thank you for making this. I feel dumber, but smarter at the same time for not picking some of these things up - the way you explained it is phenomenal and I enjoyed all of it. Your voice is fluent, and you are confident in your words. Great job!
Thanks Name! I appreciate you giving me the chance man!
Excellent job. One of my favorite movies ever ❤️
I’m not gonna lie I was kind of confused on what was going on through the plot twist of the story, but this helped out sorting out the gaps. Haha
In the political climate today in america....we can all learn from a little Jin-Roh. Great dissection btw!
How so?
This aged well?
@@mardukgilgamesh1500 Like good wine.
Oh boy
And I think the people will slowly start to wake up and stop looking at things in a "Us vs Them" perspective and unite once more.
I 've been thinking for a long time that the way we view morality is messed up. Categorizing people into either victims of villains (good guys or bad guys, monsters or heroes, etc.) is just so flawed on so many levels that i can barely even begin to unwrap it. And that's without even getting into the moral clusterfuck that is revenge and what is morally acceptable retribution when someone has been wronged.
If we ever want to achieve some real form of lasting peace then we seriously need to take a real long and hard look at how we approach morality and our sense of right and wrong.
I just finished watching it now, I am still in shock at the ending
That was a damn good video sir.
"IDC About spoilers i only wish for details to know more about the history"
We are all villains and heroes sometimes.
Couldn't have said it better, amazing video.
Need more quality videos such as this
The KPC gives me Wolfenstien vibes.
MG42's and heavy armor.
Just like how they dressed
This was a fantastic analysis!
I've been obsessed with this movie ever since I watched it the first time. Kinda sad that the series barely had any entries. But I guess it's part of the vibes that the series gives: In-depth narrative in Obscurity.
i just like movies and shows that focus on shades of gray, conflicting morals in a story is always a sign of a good movie
Something that struck me as a theme was that everyone just wanted to belong, the revolutionaries, reaguler civs, and the government they where all doing what they thought best to reach their ideal world that they belonged in, because of that everyone becomes both a victim and assailant. Defending and enforcing their ideals
Very good and clever analysis, loved it!
Brilliant analysis of a brilliant film.
Can't wait for my second viewing of this masterpiece.
Thanks Master Hand!
Unironically my favourite video thus far on RUclips.
Thanks a ton Jason Tate!
I was so emotionally confused after finishing this movie. You've cleared up a million literary themes I identified but had no idea how to put together. Villainy vs innocence, the need for a good and bad, the two-sided perspectives of the terms "good" and "bad", of "right" and "wrong", the destruction of black and white, the meaning in deaths even to include the use of death as a gift... I didn't even think of the theme of a wolf as a sexual predator in that scene in the sewers.
You really outlined well the ideas and the structure of the movie. I think I was attempting to do what you said, organize the themes into categories of good and bad, right and wrong. That's why the switching of the parts of the wolf and little red riding hood confused me. I didn't expect a not-so-popular animated movie from about 15 years ago to question these kinds of ideals and perspectives. Isn't it interesting that Oshii came to this conclusion about the world (that right and wrong change depending on which side of the fence you stand) when he grew up in and witnessed a society of chaos and murder and coos and disorder? You would think he has an opinion about who or what party is right. Perhaps he does, but how can you back anything up if the terms of morality aren't solidified as universal rules?
You did a wonderful job explaining the themes within the movie and linking them together. It's given me even more to think about- I'm still pretty confused though.
Thanks for the love Bloggerofstupid. Just because something isn't immensely well known or is old doesn't mean much in the way of its quality as a story or what it's capable of saying. You should give Ringing Bell a shot. It's even older and has even fewer people who've seen it. ~ Skrullz
Brilliant. Love your work
Thanks a lot!
Watching this really broadened my view on life on politics on crimes and victims, I'm damned grateful
I was trying to figure out what this movie is really about and this video helped me out a lot. I'ma gonna have to go watch it again
You should! Fantastic movie!
The Poz Button has a really good podcast episode on Jin Roh. I haven’t seen Jin Roh since I was a teenager, now I plan on rewatching it. Very interesting themes at play.
I know this is an old video and I am late into the party. BUT! I love this video.
SO
DAMN
MUCH
iirc this is based on real events in post-war Japan where Marxist insurgents were a thing and Gen. MacArthur took some creative measures in dealing with them, and then of course later the Maoists came in and brought a lot of unrest.
Bless that those destructive beliefs never took hold.
Yeah like liberalism?
gahddamn look at all those chiseled jawlines on those troopers
Spot on. I can't wait to see the live action
Fantastic video, man! Great narrative on a anime classic, well done!
Thanks man! I appreciate the kind words!
That conclusion really tops the cake there, wonderful script!
thanks for filling up some of thr gaps i had in my understanding of this film. I had a feeling i didnt fully get the little red ridinghood thing
+ForShizzleize Well, just remember this is my theory as to why it's using that, or at least one of the reasons as to why it's using that. People will obviously come to their own conclusions. If you have any of your own theories, I'd love to hear it man!
Pause and Select Of course. nevertheless, very eye opening, keep it up!
ForShizzleize Cheers, I'll try!
This video is so close to feelings I had while watching the anime! It's one of the best masterpieces about morality I have ever seen
Hold on here. Those are either MG42s or MG3s. Not Browning MGs
***** The MG34 had a round heat shield. The only difference between the MG42 and the MG3 is the caliber, the 42 being chambered in 7.92x57, the 3 being chambered in NATO standard 7.62x51.
***** Meh, I'm more specialized towards machines of war than anything else
Yellow 13
Thanks, they did the same mistake in "Casa de Papel"
I remember watching this in my more innocent years and noting the conflicting tones between how “evil” the state appears, and yet it’s the “virtuous” rioters performing overt actions of villainy.
I hate the fact that the live action version nurtured the original film
This is very deeply thought-provoking. You just earn yourself a subscriber my friend.
Thanks Ryan! Thanks for giving the vid a shot!
Very well put, nice review. Thanks for uploading
Once a chaotic environment is born victim and aggressor cease to exist. No one starts a war be living they are the bad guy.
8:50 "but we never see any crime"
*i beg to differ*
One man's Uber-Soldat (Super Soldier) is another's Tyrant.
I'm never seen this anime before, so when I saw the armored soldiers in a RUclips music video I thought it was something related to Killzone. They look just like Hellghasts.
Thanks for this analysis, a well needed one for a movie like Jin Roh´s. Awesome!
+Marcos Luna Cheers, thanks for the kind words!
Well spoken. Well worded. Brilliant! Thank you for this video, sir :D.
Thanks for the kind words trance!
thanks for putting this into words. criminally underrated film
No problem! ~Roger
Amazing video! I hope your channel prospers soon, you deserve it.
+Brendan Thompson Thank you very much for the kind words!
"That's really interesting" are now my trigger words to get some popcorn and sit down for a good time
lolol
pure genius! one of the BEST analysis I've ever seen!!
jus some advice tho.. try pausing now and then.. it helps in carrying the emotion in ur tone and talk a tad bit slower... it gives time for the viewers to feel the emotion. Except that everything is top notch! :)
Will keep that in mind for future videos! Thank you for the praise though.
the machine guns are reminiscent of MG 42s, not brownings
Yep, I know! Sorry about the mistake!
It's relevant because the Kerberos saga is set in an alternate history where Germans conquered the world hence weapons from WW2 Germany. The analysis on estrangement by technology was pretty much on spot, though. Hats off to that.
Damn, this was the first video of yours I had seen, and I have to say I'm angry with myself for not finding your channel sooner.
A question before I begin:
How are you so verbose, and what do you do, to read so many interesting articles and papers?
Anyway:
I''m not huge into anime/manga etc. but you make series I've never heard of sound so interesting and deep, I hop you get at least 1.M subs because you deserve it.
Now onto Jin Roh:
I have seen this movie and I think you hit the nail on the head with the analysis that the characters are trying to reflect complex people and times, switching from the role of hunter and hunted, wolf and red hood.
I think there is another underlying message to the story however.
Throughout the film we see characters switch between what they usually are, and their opposite, like you said.
Fuse goes from one of the best in the Panzer Corps to the sympathetic friend of Kei and back to the wolf. Kei is a red hood who becomes a wolf and back to a red hood. We also see Fuse's mentor and handler Handa go from sympathetic back to the hard uncompromising leader of Wolf-Brigade.
I argue this was this was intentional, trying to show that even though people are more complex than black and white stories try to make them out to be. In the end, your actions define you, and eventually cause you to make choices that will fit you into a role that could be defined as black and white even if the choices or actions we made to get there were gray.
Fuse questions himself and his role as the wolf throughout the movie, yet when it came down to it, he knew he was in too deep with the unit to turn back, and made the only choice he could, to once again become the wolf.
Sorry if this is long winded or stupid, just my interpretation, keep up the great works.
I'm currently in grad school, doing a doctorate in cultural studies. It's mainly stuff I come across anyways, so it all works out very conveniently.
---
There's definitely a sort of 'digitization' of the person that occurs, where bits and pieces of nuance are removed to bring the events forward. You bring up a really important point that links back to the very nature of the Story itself (in general, not just Jin-Roh), which is that points in a plot are sometimes ripped from nuanced context so they might move events forward.
When we take Fuse killing Kei, Fuse's action reframes him and her, ripping the consequence from the context just an hour or so before. You mention that actions define you; I absolutely agree in that these actions defining you rip of that context that lead to these actions.
This is even more pertinent considering that Little Red Riding Hood wasn't the only story that was engaged in the movie. The story of Tristan and Isolde was more subtly tackled, to the point where it firmly girds the final arc. But even that reference is cast aside in the name of the action that happens.
Amazing comment. Much Thanks
Brilliant breakdown. Thanks.
Wow, what an amazing video. Subbed and like, I look forward to your other works.
Never thought of anime in that way. Thanks for great videos, can't stop watching them.
And thanks to Digibro for exposing your channel to me.
Haha, glad you found the video interesting!
Buddy you are so talented my god show this to an English professor or something you deserve an award
lol thanks
bro really called the MG-42s "Browning-esque"
Thanks I needed this, had no idea wth was going on
I'm glad i decided to look up Jin-Roh after not thinking about it for a long time. This is a good, thought provoking video, and I had never heard of that classification system for folklore--as someone fascinated by it and it's use as a social education took, i am indebted to the video maker. Thanks!
i think one of the weaknesses of liberal analysis of politics is that it tries to find some clear delineation between fascism and liberalism itself, treating "authoritarian" or "totalitarian" societies as bizarre historical oddities, belonging to the past, alien from Reasonable Government, instead governed by irrationality and excess--ignoring that these traits exist not as some exception to the history of capitalism and its liberal state, but rather have always been there, if not deployed domestically against internal dissent, then a necessary part of maintaining the colonial holdings overseas that are direly necessary for a society built on private ownership of commercial property and the inherent contradictions of producing commodities for profitable exchange, which inevitably must express itself as violence. Capitalism must constantly expand and revolutionize itself. Its ability to tolerate boundaries to this are tied to the strength of an independent working class movement and overall international situation. When Germany lost its colonial holdings, and spiraled into depression, the Weimar Republic and liberal state form were rejected and the violent colonial governance brought home, and used against Europe itself. In a very real and disturbing way, what makes hitler unique wasnt his terroristic use of violence, but that he didnt use it against the third world. Had he done so, he wouldn't be much different than his inspirations like Andrew Jackson, who is depressingly well regarded even today.
I think the maoist analysis of fascism and liberal/social democratic state forms both expressing the needs of a class that rules over a society marked by private property relationships and the social divisions necessary to maintain it, like patriarchy and national chauvinism, to be more accurate. For example, the US is both a society where you can express a wide range of views, run for office under almost any political banner, and consume all manner of commodities, like firearms and adult entertainment. But it is also the worlds largest jailer, with 1/99 people behind bars, where police routinely extrajudicially execute alleged minor offenders, where torture to receive a confession is routine, and torture in prison happens without much consequence to the perpetrators, where regular beat cops are recruited from the military, armed with military grade hardware, and have SWAT teams specifically intended to tackle domestic descent as well as potential dangerous gangsters.
In fact, during the 1960s, the FBI director J Edgar Hoover famously called the Black Panthers' free breakfast program for children to be the "most subversive" action in America. The Nixon Aide John Ehlrichman admitted in a 1994 interview that the War on Drugs was specifically designed to eliminate the leadership of the Civil Rights and Anti War movements, because making those movements directly illegal wouldve been untenable. The Republican strategist Lee Atwater at this time pioneered the Southern Strategy, where instead of attacking minorities directly to whip up white voter support, you instead attack social services poor minorities rely on, which he said would hurt them worse than whites, but was abstract, unlike overt racism.
Those two events are just some of many that lead to the present state of mass incarceration, racist policies in enforcement and sentencing, and police brutality that define the modern American political landscape. This lead the Panthers to conclude the US was in fact a fascist society. The Civil Rights legislation passed at this time has been near effortlessly undermined both by government policies above, and indirect events like de-industrialization and the divestment of the major banks in urban development, as well as the direct response by whites to leave desegregated cities for the suburbs, taking with them their tax money. This is the cause of urban decay, which in turn is the main engine for all manner of social disintegration in the "inner city."
The full extent of this is often lost on many people, American and foreign alike. The US doesnt have even a tepid social democratic movement because every attempt to establish one was thwarted directly and violently by both major political parties. Americans arent especially backwards compared to the social democratic citizens of Europe. The US doesn't have a unionized workforce, public healthcare, and so on because the system simply cannot accommodate these social democratic concessions anymore. The same is becoming increasingly true in the era of Austerity in Europe as well. If European ruling classes follow the American precedent, which they probably will since they are equally as bourgeois and no longer have to look comparatively good to the Socialist Bloc to prove the validity of capitalism, and have plenty of cheap migrant laborers and advanced machine tools to undermine domestic labor costs, then Europe too will see rises in the use of the police state to handle its own dissidents, no matter how conciliatory they are to the needs of the bourgeoisie.
The needs of American capital simply preclude civil rights, unions, and even the observance of our own constitutional rights to fair treatment by the police. The magnitude of this revelation is staggering. In a very real, very direct way, US prisons, trailer parks, ghettos, and reservations are concentration camps of the potential political rivals of a powerful minority of people who simply cannot risk a threat to their livelihoods in this era of intense global competition with a rising China and expansionist Russian Federation, and rebellious populations in the neo-colonies, all of whom are legitimate existential threats to the dominance of US capital. The US ruling class isn't a moral failure. They are doing whats most expedient to preserve the basic structure of capitalism.
Indeed this is what defines the state: its claim to hold a monopoly on violence. This is why stealing the medicine from a pharmacy to save someone's life is illegal, but letting someone die of preventable or curable illness is not; why a lie to start a war to seize control of another country's resources is never considered as severe as the lie an armed robber tells a court. Why a cop can execute a suspected petty criminal, and receive no real repercussion, but the protests after that might cause minor property damage is held to be nearly as morally questionable, and more likely to result in a sentence and prison time.
And why the actions of a violent subversive group is considered on par with the violence inherent to class society.
The Red Army Faction in Germany, for example, carried out bank robberies, prison breaks, and violent confrontations with the police of the German Federation--a government that retained high ranking nazi war criminals in office and outlawed legal communist organizing, and participated as a NATO member state in some of the worst atrocities in the third world, and never paid any reparations to the Eastern European states in which it destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars in property and over 20 million lives.
While its true the role of Predator and Prey is contextual, and one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, ultimately the origin of violence and oppression, the creation of wolves and lambs, stems from someone's orientation to the State and its political economic base. There can truly not be an objective morality that can govern both a ruling class, and its subjects. Violence springs naturally from these social divisions, because ideology can only weld together separate groups whose lived experiences will inevitably contradict what claims are made by the ruling class, who either can never truly understand why people will want to rebel against a system that serves them so well, or do understand but will still act out of class preservation.
The ruling class preys upon its subjects out of its class interests, something it cannot escape. "Even kings are slaves to history," as tolstoy says. The subjects resort to violence, not because they fail to achieve a moral high ground, but because no movement that becomes capable of dislodging a ruling class and making a society that is truly peaceful will be allowed to do so, regardless of the political form of that ruling class's effective dictatorship. The prey become predators because the alternative is annihilation and a return to violent subjugation.
The ruling class understands on a fundamental level how civil rights and workers rights are fundamentally antagonistic to the system that makes their lives possible. We would do well to understand this ourselves, to be prepared to do whats necessary to make a society that is capable of achieving goals matching our own class interests
this is literally the most epic "we live in a society".
Jokes aside, this was a magneficant piece you wrote, I find your analysis of socio-political "phanomna" and ideas about class struggle to be extremely note worthy and thought provoking, and trust me i dont use that word lightly its deep... i generally try as much as i can not to think or embrace political thought because of its inherent need of detached nature, a part I am not fond of, but with your interpertation I have to take into consideration or maybe even agree with it... but I humbly disagree more or less with some of the points in your excellent piece... and as such I have been writing a critique of your analysis that I will post in due time.
P.S I implore you if you havent written a book, do write one, I can see great potential In youre thoughts.
you could say.....both of them were doing their jobs
Amazing break down
Thanks!
Is Kazuki's body count actually higher than Fuse's? That's a troubling line of thought. Past revolutions are noted by having more martyrs than conquering heroes--and that's because for the most part revolutionaries die inglorious deaths without even having the chance at striking back at their enemies. Even the most organized communist insurgencies are full of normal people radicalized and pulled into a meatgrinder. Fuse likely has a much higher body count than the girl he murders. He has armor, he has modern equipment, he has training and experience on his side. Regardless of politics, he is a trained killer. He is the wolf. The playing of intertext here can only go so far because Fuse is more likely to be detached from human suffering from Kazuki. Full stop. Fuse is the member of an authoritarian state security force that represses armed dissidents. Whatever personal feelings he might have, he will find them easy to dispense of relative to the girl he's stringing along. Her panic is a result of realizing that. She has no power over what happens to her at the end. It's simply another bullet in another body to the Wolf Brigade.
My condolences to you sir this was really well made
Never viewed the movie like this....thanks!
Thanks for the kind words ODST!