So the third way between fight & flight is insight by listening and contemplating from a cosmic point of view...mindfully...Thank you for this helpful synthesis in spirit
I have also being introduced to Jesus through protestant christianity see father Rohr as a great teacher and invaluable to our future understanding of the Father, Son, Holy spirit, and humanity.
Fr. Rohr getting to the heart of matters again. Without cracking the shell of ego, the light of wisdom and grace cannot enter to enflame the heart with love and compassion.
If people on here actually read his books they would be surprised how often he quotes scripture. It's a shame so many have closed themselves off without first inspecting what he says.
Yes, Rohr quotes scripture, selectively. The devil quotes scripture for all that. For example many people will quote “the least of these” to reference anyone whatsoever, but the entire text is ‘the least of these, brothers” as a way of reassurance to those who are persecuted for his sake. Rohr leaves out the texts that do not support his gnostic world view. Lately I heard him say that Thomas could not accept a suffering savior so Jesus comes to him and bids him put his finger in his wounds. That is not the gospel. It was Thomas who did not believe that Jesus had been raised from the dead saying that unless he put his finger in the wounds he would not believe. But Jesus appears to him and Thomas does not put his finger in the wound but falls down and worships Jesus. According to Rohr Jesus and the Christ are not the same thing. For Rohr there is no atonement, that Jesus was a “Ransom for many” (Mark). But fro 2000 years the church has been ignorant of Rohr’s mystical Christ and he is here to set the straight. The problem with his preaching is that unless you understand him you are really not touching the real Christ. Totally anti-Pauline, who tells us that the institution of the communion comes from Christ himself: For I delivered to you what was given to me that on the night our Lord was delivered up to be Crucified he too bread, bless, broke and said “This is my Body broken for you...”. The Catholic Church does not accept Rohr’s teaching. But there are good criticisms of Rohr from the Church if we care to look. According to Rohr you are already saved so there is no redemption or necessity for Jesus death and resurrection save a story to point the way to your own goodness. There is no sin to forgive, really. Sin is absence from God, or ignorance because if we knew that truth of course we would do it. But the good that I would do I don’t do it, but the very thing I don’t want to do. Who will save me from this body of sin and death? Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus who saves me. Now I can do what is right because of Jesus. (Romans)
@Ian I'm glad you know me so well, what I think and my motives. RR was/is considered a heretic in his own church. But if his idealism is what Christianity is all about the question would then be so why should I be a Christian when poppy charms or Buddhism would work just as well to put me at-one with the universe? Of course, RR can see that far, too. Sorry, I can not.
@Ian My early journey started when I was 12 years old in 1958. The question for me is what is the correspondence between RR idealism and reality? Are we approaching the beginninglessness of mind as in Buddhism? And what you mean by I have not studied him is that if I had I would agree with him which is begging the question. I have read the Divine Dance. I have also read the Book of Mark. One thing I would say is that like all fundamentalists and atheists, RR cherry-picks the New Testament in order to make his points. For example, I remember him saying that Jesus told Thomas that unless he put his finger in the nail print he could not believe, which turned the whole narrative upside down. Thomas never did put his finger in Jesus' nail print because he had been confronted by the really real resurrected Jesus. RR does this with many texts and then there is just no way to go back and confront him on them because he jumps around so much. Also, another name for everything is everything. Any time someone says everything is something they are into idealism and metaphysical nonsense. I think.
I was introduced to Richard Rohr in the early eighties with a gift of Breathing Underwater in cassette form by my sister. Since then he has moved me to a whole new level of understanding of spirituality. To fully come to know the contemplative mind, will require you to let go. I learned what that means through reading such books by Thomas Merton on Contemplation, experiencing retreats in darkness and silence at the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, sharing with men your faith and belief of God.
I hear similaries with Advaita Vedanta. I felt much more attracted to eastern spirituality. Great to hear that there is so much beauty in Christianity.
Non dualistic thinking points to a realisation or an awareness that there is no separation between people even if we think totally different. So yes it includes other people who do not think like me.
I love everything he has said so far. For someone who has been pretty closed off to the main religion s of the day this man gives me a reason to be curious about the teachings now in my thirties, when I can see what understanding and non understanding can be worth. Forgiveness and inclusion. Peace
Its as if the scripture wakes us up to ourselves and our part in God.As if we wrote it to ourselves to remind us of the truth of who we are (in and part of God), God is the part that is always awake and always calling us.
What a marvelously gifted contemporary prophet and teacher this man is! Oh that we all might hear and act in our faith journey as he teaches. This is the way to unite all angry separated groups of faith in seeking unity, peace and love to build God’s kingdom on earth.
You have to abandon the authority of Scripture,the Great Commission, the testimony of the Martyrs, Obedience to Christ, Evangelism through words, works and wonders, burden for the lost etc but sure apart from that he's really on point!
If there is anyone who truly wants to gain a greater awareness of being human I strongly suggest you read books by Erich Fromm. One of his very thought provoking books is "To Have or to Be? which addresses precisely what Rohr is talking about regarding the trappings of the rational mind which, according to Fromm, is the having mode of existence which has become the dominant theme in our lives. But it is the being mode that needs to be cultivated.
if more christians actually read the bible for themselves and really understood what jesus was teaching, instead of accepting doctrines taught by others, usually to maintain the status quo, then more people would get what rohr is saying
Rohr is right on.. I know it's hard to see that sectarian alliance that some like to bash or say he's part of.. but that's the issue.. neither jew nor greek are we in god's eyes.. those that want to see the bible as more than the imperfect word of god are going to be shocked.. there's a reason why 1st century didn't have a word for good or bad.. just ripe or unripe.. there's a reason that the word for "obey my commandments" was puqdana.. the inner teaching of His Spirit upon the heart.. it makes it too subjective for our western ritual comfort seeking minds.. I do like Frennette's teaching on contemplatvie prayer.. but even find him stuck in much of the formaility of it.. Yeshua wants a dialogue with you, a relation.. that's intimate and evolving.. what Richard is referring to is this process by which that selfsame Spirit of Power renews and clarifies out minds
+Clint Kempster Rohr is a false teacher and an evil man. He is accursed according to Galatians chapter 1 verses 8 and 9. He is possessed by a devil. The Authorized Bible is the preserved infallible word of God. God did not give us an imperfect word, he gave us a PERFECT and LITERAL word.
You're a fallen idiot. But there is hope. Though the SPIRIT of his Son who is his perfect word you can be restored. I bind that spirit of legalism and diabolic religious arrogance and command to come out of you the sweet child of God and be restored to the Live of Christ. My son the law killith. The spirit gives life
Clint Kempster You are trying to be spiritual in the power of flesh. It doesn't work. You are not born again by the Holy Spirit. This can only happen by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Jesus died on the cross, was buried and rose again the third day to give us the free gift of eternal life. Whosoever believes on him will be saved. The new age deception has blinded you into thinking that I am an arrogant legalist. You are more of a legalist than I am. Legalism is to try to get to God by your own OWN effort, and is seen in every single false religion (mormonism, catholicism, islam, buddhism, hinduism, judaism, etc.) including the new age belief system. The BIBLE teaches that we cannot save ourself. We can only be saved by believing on the SAVIOUR, who is the true and living Jesus Christ from the Bible. I already have the Spirit of his Son. Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Jesus Christ saved me from hell and sin. I am redeemed through the literal, physical BLOOD OF CHRIST. I am sealed with the Holy Spirit who dwells in me, and I know him and feel him. Exactly like the PERFECT word of the PERFECT God says. A great delusion is coming, come to Jesus Christ before it's too late... He is the ONLY WAY of salvation...
+Clint Kempster don't listen to this guy Clint.....Richard is so spot on!!.......Jesus would completely agree......the church has sooooo much work to do. I have been a beleiver for a very long time and FINALLY somebody is making sense to me.
in christ teaching what is vain repetition? speaking for the sake of it? prayer that glorifies man? empty words? when people prayed during christs time on earth did they do it in his name? or is that after the ascension.the bible is very mysterious too
just as someone quotes the bible does not mean they understand it. i have done that mr rohr is an ordained minister ,gave his life to Christ maybe more than you and i . did gospels also say be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind? it definately did eastern mystycism? the bible is from the middle east jesus then in your quote could well be saying that silent prayer is important ie "for they think they shall be heard for their much speakin and contemplative prayer is done in silence
"contemplative mind...you really have to be taught" Why? Can't I just pray to God without being taught by another human being? Jesus gives me an example in the Bible and that is absolutely enough. Learning something from the monasteries?Mysticism?He is against absolutes.This is mixing truth with error.According to him there is no "good or bad" taught at his retreat.According to God those categories do exist.For me God's words come first.If an idea is not aligned with it, thats error.Error=sin.
Part 2/2 Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:2 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
Just because someone quotes the bible does not mean they are doing Gods will. Even the devil can quote the bible, see Matthew 4. Christ taught us how to pray and that does not entail copying the practices of Eastern Mysticism. Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Rohr’s doublespeak and web of tangled thought is very hard to follow unless you have taken the lure. Then he drags you wherever he, with his great knowing mystic mind wants to take you. You are the fish, he is the fisher. In order to do this the first thing he has to do is disavow identity, or the first premise of logic and reasoning A is A. He calls it dualistic thinking but it is really monistic for it must start with a thing is what it is. This of course leads to A not being Not A. That is not dualism. Rohr’s is dualistic thinking because the first thing it does is sets off the spiritual from the material, or the mind/body problem. In this dualism Rohr goes with the Beginning-less Mind and in doing so will eventual deny substitutionary atonement and that Jesus and the Christ are not the same thing, Jesus being the historical man and Christ the incarnation of God in all matter. How does he know all these things? It’s mystical and you can’t understand it unless you enter the mystical mind. Let go! Caught!
Do not be deceived by the teaching of contemplative prayer. This is mysticism/spiritualism and is even acknowledged to be as such by Pope John Paul the II. This is the primary means by which according to Catholic teaching by which they will evangelize the world. There is little difference between this and that of eastern religious and new age philosophy. The bible speaks strongly against following such a teaching. He is preaching smooth things. part I/2
very deceptive. uses all the buzz words in theology an psychology. i'm ok. your ok. no sin. no truth. no one is right. whatever you believe is truth. Oprah taught him well.
I am a big fan of Richard Rohr. However, he does himself no favors here by misquoting history. He is often accused of being an intellectual dilettante and is therefore dismissed even before he is given a hearing. Unfortunately, he appears to prove that point here. He places the Reformation in the 14th and 15th centuries. The Reformation did not occur until the 16th Century. He places "Enlightenment Thinking" in the same time period when the Enlightenment did not occur until the 17th and 18th centuries. It pains me when one who most definitely has authority I recognize in one area, seems to pretend to have it another. It detracts from the validity of the main message.
WE are ALL one children of GOD Beloved
So the third way between fight & flight is insight by listening and contemplating from a cosmic point of view...mindfully...Thank you for this helpful synthesis in spirit
what a truly wonderful man and prophet for our times. If only we had more teachers of his kind to open minds and hearts to Reality
^ Dumb ^
I agree with you completely and I m protestant.
I have also being introduced to Jesus through protestant christianity see father Rohr as a great teacher and invaluable to our future understanding of the Father, Son, Holy spirit, and humanity.
Amen!
Fr. Rohr getting to the heart of matters again. Without cracking the shell of ego, the light of wisdom and grace cannot enter to enflame the heart with love and compassion.
If people on here actually read his books they would be surprised how often he quotes scripture. It's a shame so many have closed themselves off without first inspecting what he says.
Yes, Rohr quotes scripture, selectively. The devil quotes scripture for all that. For example many people will quote “the least of these” to reference anyone whatsoever, but the entire text is ‘the least of these, brothers” as a way of reassurance to those who are persecuted for his sake. Rohr leaves out the texts that do not support his gnostic world view. Lately I heard him say that Thomas could not accept a suffering savior so Jesus comes to him and bids him put his finger in his wounds. That is not the gospel. It was Thomas who did not believe that Jesus had been raised from the dead saying that unless he put his finger in the wounds he would not believe. But Jesus appears to him and Thomas does not put his finger in the wound but falls down and worships Jesus. According to Rohr Jesus and the Christ are not the same thing. For Rohr there is no atonement, that Jesus was a “Ransom for many” (Mark). But fro 2000 years the church has been ignorant of Rohr’s mystical Christ and he is here to set the straight. The problem with his preaching is that unless you understand him you are really not touching the real Christ. Totally anti-Pauline, who tells us that the institution of the communion comes from Christ himself: For I delivered to you what was given to me that on the night our Lord was delivered up to be Crucified he too bread, bless, broke and said “This is my Body broken for you...”. The Catholic Church does not accept Rohr’s teaching. But there are good criticisms of Rohr from the Church if we care to look. According to Rohr you are already saved so there is no redemption or necessity for Jesus death and resurrection save a story to point the way to your own goodness. There is no sin to forgive, really. Sin is absence from God, or ignorance because if we knew that truth of course we would do it. But the good that I would do I don’t do it, but the very thing I don’t want to do. Who will save me from this body of sin and death? Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus who saves me. Now I can do what is right because of Jesus. (Romans)
@Ian I'm glad you know me so well, what I think and my motives. RR was/is considered a heretic in his own church. But if his idealism is what Christianity is all about the question would then be so why should I be a Christian when poppy charms or Buddhism would work just as well to put me at-one with the universe? Of course, RR can see that far, too. Sorry, I can not.
@Ian My early journey started when I was 12 years old in 1958. The question for me is what is the correspondence between RR idealism and reality? Are we approaching the beginninglessness of mind as in Buddhism? And what you mean by I have not studied him is that if I had I would agree with him which is begging the question. I have read the Divine Dance. I have also read the Book of Mark. One thing I would say is that like all fundamentalists and atheists, RR cherry-picks the New Testament in order to make his points. For example, I remember him saying that Jesus told Thomas that unless he put his finger in the nail print he could not believe, which turned the whole narrative upside down. Thomas never did put his finger in Jesus' nail print because he had been confronted by the really real resurrected Jesus. RR does this with many texts and then there is just no way to go back and confront him on them because he jumps around so much.
Also, another name for everything is everything. Any time someone says everything is something they are into idealism and metaphysical nonsense. I think.
I was introduced to Richard Rohr in the early eighties with a gift of Breathing Underwater in cassette form by my sister. Since then he has moved me to a whole new level of understanding of spirituality. To fully come to know the contemplative mind, will require you to let go. I learned what that means through reading such books by Thomas Merton on Contemplation, experiencing retreats in darkness and silence at the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, sharing with men your faith and belief of God.
I hear similaries with Advaita Vedanta. I felt much more attracted to eastern spirituality. Great to hear that there is so much beauty in Christianity.
Non dualistic thinking points to a realisation or an awareness that there is no separation between people even if we think totally different. So yes it includes other people who do not think like me.
Thank you for making clear what really is important
I love everything he has said so far. For someone who has been pretty closed off to the main religion s of the day this man gives me a reason to be curious about the teachings now in my thirties, when I can see what understanding and non understanding can be worth. Forgiveness and inclusion. Peace
Its as if the scripture wakes us up to ourselves and our part in God.As if we wrote it to ourselves to remind us of the truth of who we are (in and part of God), God is the part that is always awake and always calling us.
So true.."I have my conclusion before..." Been there, done that, still need work.
What a marvelously gifted contemporary prophet and teacher this man is! Oh that we all might hear and act in our faith journey as he teaches. This is the way to unite all angry separated groups of faith in seeking unity, peace and love to build God’s kingdom on earth.
You have to abandon the authority of Scripture,the Great Commission, the testimony of the Martyrs, Obedience to Christ, Evangelism through words, works and wonders, burden for the lost etc but sure apart from that he's really on point!
If there is anyone who truly wants to gain a greater awareness of being human I strongly suggest you read books by Erich Fromm. One of his very thought provoking books is "To Have or to Be? which addresses precisely what Rohr is talking about regarding the trappings of the rational mind which, according to Fromm, is the having mode of existence which has become the dominant theme in our lives. But it is the being mode that needs to be cultivated.
excellent
if more christians actually read the bible for themselves and really understood what jesus was teaching, instead of accepting doctrines taught by others, usually to maintain the status quo, then more people would get what rohr is saying
Thanks for sharing your message
Rohr is right on.. I know it's hard to see that sectarian alliance that some like to bash or say he's part of.. but that's the issue.. neither jew nor greek are we in god's eyes.. those that want to see the bible as more than the imperfect word of god are going to be shocked.. there's a reason why 1st century didn't have a word for good or bad.. just ripe or unripe.. there's a reason that the word for "obey my commandments" was puqdana.. the inner teaching of His Spirit upon the heart.. it makes it too subjective for our western ritual comfort seeking minds.. I do like Frennette's teaching on contemplatvie prayer.. but even find him stuck in much of the formaility of it.. Yeshua wants a dialogue with you, a relation.. that's intimate and evolving.. what Richard is referring to is this process by which that selfsame Spirit of Power renews and clarifies out minds
+Clint Kempster Rohr is a false teacher and an evil man. He is accursed according to Galatians chapter 1 verses 8 and 9. He is possessed by a devil. The Authorized Bible is the preserved infallible word of God. God did not give us an imperfect word, he gave us a PERFECT and LITERAL word.
You're a fallen idiot. But there is hope. Though the SPIRIT of his Son who is his perfect word you can be restored. I bind that spirit of legalism and diabolic religious arrogance and command to come out of you the sweet child of God and be restored to the Live of Christ. My son the law killith. The spirit gives life
Clint Kempster You are trying to be spiritual in the power of flesh. It doesn't work. You are not born again by the Holy Spirit. This can only happen by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Jesus died on the cross, was buried and rose again the third day to give us the free gift of eternal life. Whosoever believes on him will be saved.
The new age deception has blinded you into thinking that I am an arrogant legalist. You are more of a legalist than I am. Legalism is to try to get to God by your own OWN effort, and is seen in every single false religion (mormonism, catholicism, islam, buddhism, hinduism, judaism, etc.) including the new age belief system.
The BIBLE teaches that we cannot save ourself. We can only be saved by believing on the SAVIOUR, who is the true and living Jesus Christ from the Bible.
I already have the Spirit of his Son.
Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."
Jesus Christ saved me from hell and sin. I am redeemed through the literal, physical BLOOD OF CHRIST. I am sealed with the Holy Spirit who dwells in me, and I know him and feel him. Exactly like the PERFECT word of the PERFECT God says.
A great delusion is coming, come to Jesus Christ before it's too late... He is the ONLY WAY of salvation...
+Clint Kempster don't listen to this guy Clint.....Richard is so spot on!!.......Jesus would completely agree......the church has sooooo much work to do. I have been a beleiver for a very long time and FINALLY somebody is making sense to me.
Loreto Mazzola You have never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour.
Does anyone know where to get the full presentation this clip comes from? I checked the cac website, but I can’t seem to find it. Thanks!
Why do I read the comments?
in christ teaching what is vain repetition? speaking for the sake of it? prayer that glorifies man? empty words?
when people prayed during christs time on earth did they do it in his name? or is that after the ascension.the bible is very mysterious too
just as someone quotes the bible does not mean they understand it.
i have done that
mr rohr is an ordained minister ,gave his life to Christ maybe more than you and i .
did gospels also say be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind? it definately did
eastern mystycism? the bible is from the middle east
jesus then in your quote could well be saying that silent prayer is important ie "for they think they shall be heard for their much speakin and contemplative prayer is done in silence
"contemplative mind...you really have to be taught" Why? Can't I just pray to God without being taught by another human being? Jesus gives me an example in the Bible and that is absolutely enough. Learning something from the monasteries?Mysticism?He is against absolutes.This is mixing truth with error.According to him there is no "good or bad" taught at his retreat.According to God those categories do exist.For me God's words come first.If an idea is not aligned with it, thats error.Error=sin.
We are doomed~
Part 2/2 Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:2 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
Just because someone quotes the bible does not mean they are doing Gods will. Even the devil can quote the bible, see Matthew 4. Christ taught us how to pray and that does not entail copying the practices of Eastern Mysticism. Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
you not giving examples jtaffiliate. they follow CHRIST AND QUOTE THE BIBLE CONSTANTLY.You have just made a vague statement really
Rohr’s doublespeak and web of tangled thought is very hard to follow unless you have taken the lure. Then he drags you wherever he, with his great knowing mystic mind wants to take you. You are the fish, he is the fisher. In order to do this the first thing he has to do is disavow identity, or the first premise of logic and reasoning A is A. He calls it dualistic thinking but it is really monistic for it must start with a thing is what it is. This of course leads to A not being Not A. That is not dualism. Rohr’s is dualistic thinking because the first thing it does is sets off the spiritual from the material, or the mind/body problem. In this dualism Rohr goes with the Beginning-less Mind and in doing so will eventual deny substitutionary atonement and that Jesus and the Christ are not the same thing, Jesus being the historical man and Christ the incarnation of God in all matter. How does he know all these things? It’s mystical and you can’t understand it unless you enter the mystical mind. Let go! Caught!
Sorry I'm confused by your debate.
New age
Do not be deceived by the teaching of contemplative prayer. This is mysticism/spiritualism and is even acknowledged to be as such by Pope John Paul the II. This is the primary means by which according to Catholic teaching by which they will evangelize the world. There is little difference between this and that of eastern religious and new age philosophy. The bible speaks strongly against following such a teaching. He is preaching smooth things. part I/2
jtaffiliate ...who told you mysticism was bad?
BUNK...William Tyndale
very deceptive. uses all the buzz words in theology an psychology. i'm ok. your ok. no sin. no truth. no one is right. whatever you believe is truth. Oprah taught him well.
I am a big fan of Richard Rohr. However, he does himself no favors here by misquoting history. He is often accused of being an intellectual dilettante and is therefore dismissed even before he is given a hearing. Unfortunately, he appears to prove that point here. He places the Reformation in the 14th and 15th centuries. The Reformation did not occur until the 16th Century. He places "Enlightenment Thinking" in the same time period when the Enlightenment did not occur until the 17th and 18th centuries. It pains me when one who most definitely has authority I recognize in one area, seems to pretend to have it another. It detracts from the validity of the main message.
I don't get why guys like this continue to pretend they are Catholic
Rohr is roaring heretic. Duh.
"Duh" sums you up nicely.