(1539) Kwikset Smartkey Padlock Core Update
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In video 1539 I remove the core from the new Kwikset Smartkey padlock and give you an update on the core it contains. This is the same model that gave me nightmares in video 1533 ( • (1533) Dude's Treasure... ).
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![[151] Kwikset SmartKey Padlock Picked](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NLN3V1NLFxo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[290] Dual Core Kwikset SmartKey Cylinder Picked (x2) and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ooq7FlSVlPw/mqdefault.jpg)
"Man these are nasty!"
Did I just hear "use this"?
I think you did. 😀 Still, it is a new design so I'm going to give it some time to prove itself in the durability department. So far tho, it looks really good.
@@bosnianbill What about the ol' stick a screwdriver or steel blank in it and rip 'er over?
@@bosnianbill It is an interesting looking design, I think I might have to get one to experiment on.
You know what the greatest brilliance of it is? It looks like nothing special, uses a _very_ ordinary key, and defies experienced pickers. You put an obscure lock on your shed, baddies know you might have something nice in there. It's best of both worlds: practically invisible and hard to pick.
@David Daivdson on grandmother's doors: what of the quality of the doors (hollow, steel, solid wood..) and putting long screws in the latch plates and hinges?
I wonder how many smartkey padlocks BB just sold in 4 minutes compared to what kwiksets salesman sells in a week. Lol
As always a pleasure to watch and learn from.instead of me buying a lock and mucking it up trying
If i'm not mistaken couldnt they have just put a bit of shielding over the sidebar.
Move it from the very difficult to tension like that to practically impossible. However i could me mistaken in how i think this lock works.
What i worry about with this lock is how it would stand up to brute force.
I had the same thought. I'm wondering why they need that valley along the middle of the side and why it's so big. If they need a channel for access, why not make it straight down at the front with a slope on the other side. A shim would never work then. They could also made the gap and shape of the front bezel different so that a shim can't pass in easily and be forced into the right position.
How do I know if I'm getting a Kwikset smartkey with the new core?
Did you need to destroy the lock to get the core out? Is there a model number on the box from eBay?
I just posted a video showing how to use a Bobby pin to tension the side bar on these new smartkey locks.
As a locksmith, how do you approach a lockout involving one of these? Dont bother with picks and just grab a drill?
I’m a Locksmith too, to me the obvious choice is pure destruction. But you need to get rid of the bearing at the front. I simply Dremel the front, lose the bearing, then drill it. If the customer gets mad, tough shit. Not my fault they don’t have spare keys.
From a locksmith to other locksmiths out there; WD-40 or Houdini? & Why?
Depends on what you're trying to do. Clean it or lubricate it?
Gary Rumain well, Lubricate mainly, but I find myself using Houdini for both and it’s better Than WD in my opinion. I hate when I show up to a call of someone’s key sticking and they tell me they loaded it up with graphite/WD-40 🤮
@@George-zq5xq Well, they shouldn't use both. Graphite is usually recommended by lock makers but you need the extra fine one they sell. The generic one isn't quite up to par.
WD-40 is both a cleaner and lubricant. But it lubricates by leaving a residue on everything it comes into contact with.
I once discovered how bad this residue was by applying WD-40 on a lock to clean it, leaving it to dry then applying it again. Think I did this about 4 times. By the end of that, you could see the coating.
So both it and graphite would end up making some sort of bonded mess.
For a badly gunked up lock, I would use any of the hydrocarbon cleaners - lighter fluid, isopropyl alcohol, methylated spirits, etc., first. Use that to clean out what you can. Either squirt it into the keyway, or soak (for padlocks) or both if you can.
Once it's clean, then apply a lubricant recommended by the lock manufacturers.
00:59 , Pure luck or lock :)
"...and stay away from these guys." What are you kidding? I'm planning to buy these on the basis of that pick resistance.
too easy to pick = stay away, too difficult to pick = stay away...... I am getting a bit confused here too :D
@@mikeydk maybe It is "stay away from this if you are a locksmith"
Yeah, highly pick-resistant, easily rekeyable, and available in a reasonably tough padlock with ball bearings? Guess I found my next padlock.
Me too @Davek12
I can't say exactly what Bill meant, but I'm thinking the lock still has some or all of the physical downsides of a typical smart key configuration. Maybe the square side-bar prevents you from forcing the core (?) but it still has so many moving parts that long-term use might be prohibitive. What say the Tribe?
Kwickset design guy-"Will Bosnian Bill and LPL try to pick this"?
BB and LPL-YES WE WILL.
Kwickset design guy - "Hold my beer".
So it must be a good lock, kinda like the anti - Master Lock.
at least kwikset is trying to innovate...
super awesome batman narrator voice: "MEANWHILE IN THE MASTER LOCK FACTORY...."
Design team is sitting around watching TV and drinking beer in the office
Intern dashes into the room and interrupts everything
Design guy: "I thought I told you to piss off and play on the computer or something"
Intern: "Yeah, about the media survey -- I was reading comments and customer reviews about our products, and I noticed a lot of people saying that the plastic packaging is stronger than the locks!"
Design guy: "Yeah, so what?"
Intern: "Well why don't we just make the locks out of the same stuff?"
Design guy: "... holy shit. Why didn't we think of that before? C'MON BOYS! WE GOT WORK TO DO!"
Kwikset stole their current gen. side bar tech from GM door/trunk/ignition locks. GM's side bar tech is ancient.
ripping off a semi-worthwhile tech is still more innovation than master lock can claim, really.
i can just imagine a donkey tied to a stick walking in a circle to generate power for the factory, there's hay on the ground, and in the corner a large, rude man is trying to hammer a too-wide pin into a too-small hole
Bill, there is a small hole towards the front of the sidebar (where you can see an anti-drill ball bearing). The sidebar can be tensioned through that gap. I took an old, broken .015" pick, put a bend in it, and I use it solely to tension these new sidebars. Give it a try.
Patrick Foley. yes... I tried that. It worked on the older model core, but not on this one. I suspect that when installed in the padlock body the angle is too great for the shim to bend around that extreme angle to reach the sidebar, and still have enough pressure to tension the sidebar to you can detect the gates. BTW, the thickets shim I can get into the padlock's "slot" is 0.010". A 0.015" will not even begin to go in.
Bosnianbill. Ah, I see the problem. Well, at least that technique works on the deadbolts with the new cores; there is plenty of room to fit in a tensioner. I’ve yet to encounter the padlock.
Nice to see a company actually doing things to improve their products!
"Why didn't you just-?"
What part of "Okay...attempt number..uh...94..." didn't make sense?
Are these new cores only in their padlocks, or are the being used in the door locks as well?
They're in some doorlocks. I know the current Model 980 Deadbolt has this exact core.
Does this still have the issue that you can just force it to turn open? I was avoiding the smartkey system because anyone with a wrench could open it.
Nearly any consumer grade lock can be broken open with a heavy torsion.
- - Depends on the lock and the heaviness.
@@---cr8nw Steel pins would be hard to force. Brass, while softer, is also pretty strong. The way commercial locksmiths break into some KiKs is with a needle-like tool. They push it up into the first pin stack then hammer it. This only works if the bible has a cap on it. The force of the hammered needle pushes up the pins in the first stack, breaking through or off the cap over the bible. After it's off, the springs pop out and you can push everything else up and open the lock.
@@---cr8nw How'd you come up with this? I have seen almost no locks in my 32 years of locksmithing where the lock cylinder can be forced open.
Can we get back to opening the chest please
you really want to know whats inside of it don't you? lol
@@Rem694u2 yep
Yes please I need more lol
When these things first came out people made videos forcing them open with a screwdriver. Is that still the case or has that been improved as well?
The square sidebar is the solution to preventing it being forced with a tool (screwdriver, etc.). The round bars would tend to give but the square lines on these would hold. However, that all depends on how strong the material is. BB did say the bar was shorter than the old one. Unless it's also strong, it may give under a lot of force. Maybe with a larger, stronger screwdriver.
@@two_tier_gary_rumain A larger screwdriver might not fit into the keyway.
@@g.davies1365 Yes, you'd need the right size. You'd want one that could fit a fair way in. Another method is to insert a key or key blank (don't matter if the key doesn't work as long as it fits) then force it with a pair of pliers. Obvious a steel key would be preferable to a brass key.
This is why I bought a smart key decoder. It's amazing.
Not ruined ,I've been able to get them back together from completely disassembled state
Well Bill I purchased a set of dimple picks and conquered my first dimple lock the Abus 75/50 Marine in under 5 minutes. I was so excited. I used such a small amount of tension.
It's like watching AMD pass Intel. I haven't used kwiksets in a long while because of their lousy key or knob action but it looks like they are trying harder than just having the lowest price out there.
I cant wait to see intel's response. I am a fanboy because... I have 2 uncles that build them!
@@jklbubbublkj7939 I can't wait either, but don't hold your breath. Intel needs both a new process and a new core architecture, neither of them are fast things to develop (for example we could see Ryzen coming since 2015). We're looking at 2-3 years of AMD dominance at minimum.
@@DeeSnow97 yup. Sure is exciting to see them back at it again. Whoever is CEO of AMD, needs a massive raise.
Ben Snow Dominance is a bit of a strong term. Intel still has slightly better performance, but at a significant cost. If Intel would just drop their prices then they would be the obvious choice again.
@@Daggett1122 Intel has zero performance advantage outside of gaming, and even in gaming it's only because of the ring bus they have to connect the cores. That thing doesn't scale, even Intel's current high core count chips use different interconnects, and once they inevitably go for chiplets it's going to completely go away.
Zen 2 is a far superior core architecture than Skylake, 7nm is on par with Intel's 10nm that they can't even use yet, and AMD gives more cores for the same price. To catch up in non-gaming workloads (which is by the way a nice indicator of where games are going to be in 2-3 years) Intel would need a lot more than a simple price drop. Even then, it's AMD we're talking about, they're slashing prices as time goes on even without any competition from Intel, the blue team knows better than to engage in a price war with AMD.
As for gaming. Why are you trying to buy a CPU for gaming? That's not how it works... the CPU's only performance-critical job in a game is to feed the GPU with draw calls. A 9900k can send out around 170 frames in demanding titles. A 3900X can do 160. But here's the thing: the 3600 can also do 160, and it's $300 cheaper. That allows you to jump from a 2060 Super to a 2080 Super, and that's gonna be a tangible difference in gaming, unlike the CPU upgrade which you don't see even on a 144 Hz monitor. (And as someone who has one of those, the difference between 130 and 140 is already imperceptible, you're not gonna see 160 vs 170 either even if you can display it.)
So, in conclusion, Intel is charging a huge premium for a minuscule theoretical performance bump in a highly specific scenario. Would a price drop still help it? Temporarily, yes. A 9700K for $200 would be a compelling "gaming CPU". A 9900K for $330 would be a worthy competitor for the 3700X. But AMD has been the underdog for long enough that they know how to play the mid range. They have the absolute high-end, and with that no matter what Intel does they can adjust prices too and one-up them any time.
Intel's best bet is to keep losing to AMD, act like everything is fine, and find excuses for their pricing. Because that's how they make money. These CPUs cost like $50-60 to manufacture at most, it's all about maximizing margins. If they start a price war, AMD will respond because they're AMD, and it's just going to be worse for both of them.
Release the schmoo!
Another Ave fan?
What series is that new core?
Some nice stuff out of kwikset! Appreciate the in depth look at the lock Bill!
I don't have one of these locks handy, but I have an interesting theory here that I've been wondering about for a while. Can you attack them via the rekeying mechanism rather than via rotation? Watching ruclips.net/video/l0q0hNHZYsg/видео.html Is there a reason you couldn't get it to bind horizontally? It would potentially reset the keying, sure, but you should be able to open in non-destructively that way ...
How good are these locks against simple drilling or breaking them open with a screwdriver + wrench? Do you know??
So Bill I am new to side bars, why do they move out of the way when a key is inserted? Could the kwikset decoder you should a little while ago work? I guess i gotta watch more of your videos but you got me thinking which I enjoy cause i'm not very good at it
Man I miss your videos, hope all is well at home & that everything sorts it out well enough for you to return to making videos, even if less frequently.
is that gap that reaches rhe end of the side bar the 5th pin, because eveytime i pull shim out with tension it drops?
Glad you opened it, I have one I been trying to SPP , I get NOTHING!! Cant feel anything set, drives me crazy
#3 master pin on edge over the steel ball should stop side bar shims as done by a couple other tubers.
If I buy this padlock on amazon, how do I know if it has the old core or the new core?
So on those you now have to do the same thing but inserting the tension tool through the inside on the cylinder wall over that little ball bearing and do it that way
Just curious... is that entire core pretty easy to drill? It looks soft.
I have installed several of these smart locks in door sets, and they feel kind of cheesy. Does anyone have a sense of longevity in real world use?
You could buy one and test it. I had to drill out a brass plug on an Abus padlock recently. It wasn't exactly easy. I used a small drill bit to start with, drilling at the bottom of the pin stacks. The pins still got damaged. I then used a larger drill bit to go deeper once I'd pass each stack. After all the pins and springs were out (they all looked fine. Just standard pins), I still couldn't turn the core until I used a large flathead screwdriver and applied a lot of force. It turned out, the plug and core got bonded together somehow (either via rust or someone put some superglue into it. Couldn't work out what it was, exactly). Just need to replace the core and it's fine.
Everything from kwikset is pot metal or zinc or cheese.
I work at a big box hardware store and the only problem that we've been seeing with these smart key locks are they'll reset themselves if they get slammed like on a door for example
terrahawk2003 You mean reset as in accepting a "default key" ?
the putting it bact together video is going to be awesome :)
You took it apart great, its the going back together part that's the problem. Lol
"There's your little side bar, right there on the side"
So in not going insane, I think I have an attack in mind, this is helpful
In my opinion, the blank-key destructive attack on these cores makes any picking attempts a moot subject. Cheers! Chris.
Idea, but I lack the skill to test. Could you have a curved probe with a line sharpied on it to know the exact depth of the bar cut out. Then it would not take skill or feel to know you are lined up.
Bill has padlock frogs in his house today 😂
Nice picking resistance, but the core is still cheaply made and weak against brute force. Buy this as lock aficionados, not as property owners.
Can you give us a few details? What kind of brute force attack? How does “cheaply made” degrade the security and make it vulnerable? Not trying to be confrontational, but I attacked this thing every way i know how, to include brute force and specialized tools. For a $15-18 dollar lock, I think it delivers more than we could ask of it. And no, i don’t work for kwikset...
Thanks Bill
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Is this guy better then the lockpickylawer?
Bill seems to be mostly about picking locks and LPL takes the approach of finding all weaknesses and is very methodical. I think they compliment each other well. They also have collaborated on a few videos.
IF you could get that shim in there, it could be wedged in between the body and sidebar getting you the tension needed. But ... the random attack worked for you. 😁
There's already a video of another picker bypassing the system with a home made shim doing that.
@@kamenriderblade2099 ----' have you a link to this video------would be interested to view it----cheers
@@kampfire. ruclips.net/video/--tva7GA9f4/видео.html
I posted it in a separate post for everybody to see in the primary video thread
Could you slide someting along the exposed part of the sidebar and into the little gap between the sidebar and the body?
does the sidebar have a spring pushing it into the sliders? And if so if you don't put any tension on the core would you be able to feel where there's a slight bit of a catch on the gates?
Manufacturers who aren't watching youtube videos to innovate and promote their products are truly missing out..
but if this thing is square and cannot be pushed into the core by tension and isnt sprint loaded against the core (if it would be you would apply pressure on the pins which obviously would be counterintuituve) what pushes the side bar into the core so it can rotate. maybe gravity but then the lock would not work if it's wrongly oriented which would suck.
Can you use a much wider shim? Such that the shim is forced to curve across its width when pushed in (curved by the body and barrel pressing on it). Then when the end of the shim passes into the space over the sidebar it'll spring flat and push down on the sidebar. A bit of extra pushing could then add enough pressure. Just a thought
It is nice to see lock companies putting a bit of effort in to making locks more secure .
After picking a few quicksets in the field I kinda feel it important to address an issue with picking quickset door locks that I hope you good sir will address . In the field the core pops easily but once released the actuated mechanisms do not engage so a successful pick only frees the core not the actuater.
I'm thinking of a shim with a string on it that allows you to pull away from the lock so the tip bends and pulls down on the bar...
I'm on the phone or i would sketch something on the computer, but the idea is simple enough.
What set of picks would you recommend for a beginner? I got a cheap set and am looking to upgrade a bit
Wow. But if someone were to design a shim capable...
these are not so bad to tear down/assemble once you know where all the bits go. had to manually set the "wafers" on mine after losing both tool+original key.
the sidebar is in a housing, can you wedge the shim between the sidebar and the housing to apply downward pressure => tension?
If you sharpened the end of your shim a bit, could you wedge it in between the sidebar and the shield to get some pressure on the sidebar?
I think it I a combination of the shape of the sidebar and the depth of that cut. For some reason it feels to me like the material from the core is thicker around it as well. That would force anyone to try and go deeper somehow.
There's your little sidebar, right there in the side. 🤣
You and me both on everything here including gutting. LPL shows how to pick some but it can't be the same core. I get nothing but I still have my direct reader I am still learning to use. I would appreciate these locks if they didn't randomly fail.
There has to be an exploit nut we just haven't seen it yet
Man, i have this feeling that you have been through some serious shit in your working life
That's weird, so these are good??? Gotta be a way around it, somehow.
Looks like I’m going to pick up a new lock to play with 😺
I mean my skill leave is just rakeing anyways
"There's the little sidebar, right there on the side."
Thank you for going the extra mile with this!
Have you ever tried Ruko Garant Plus?
Now!, Can you put it back to gether correctly? If not send me all the pieces and I will , ;)
Too late. After the video I tossed it all. They are too cheap to try and rebuild after a gutting disaster like that...🙃
I'm invested in Kwikset for my home so I'm glad to see the smartkey line getting better. I'm going to change my old one on my front door for a new one soon.
Now put it back together Bill
Yay i was waiting for bosnianbill to do the kwikset padlock
How well do you think this lock would last outside?
👍 👍 👍 👍
Nice job y'all!
Where can I get one? Lol.
Very interesting
Love your videos! :)
Kwik?
How do you remove the core without destroying the padlock?
You don't. You have to cut/drill the rivets on bottom to take it apart. It ruins the lock as you can hear Bill say at 3:08.
@@MikesDIY i heard him say that, but I thought he meant ruining the core.
Bill, that looks like a good design but what kind of metal do they use? It looks like cheesy white soft metal! Love your videos and style, you are my favorite lock picker 👍🏻
Me three
Yes please
Zinc, probably
The cylinder is made of cast zinc but the sidebar appears to be made of stainless steel.
Yourself and LPL should team up and design another tool
Believe me, neither of us is giving up yet...😀 It is like jailbreaking, then the mfgr changes something, then we try to jailbreak THAT. This is the kind of thing that we LIVE for!
@@bosnianbill Always a cat n mouse game
I'm guessing you had to do a destructive dissassembly to get the core out?
There is a roll pin you can pull out to shimmy everything apart. Maybe I’ll do a video.
@@RubberBanned is love to see that.
If they'd make a version that's master-keyable I'd be willing to use these. I don't want to give out my key cut to anyone else though, even to someone checking my house if I'm away.
The SmartKey design does not lend itself to being masterkeyed. I used to work for the parent company of Kwikset and the engineers told me they could not make it work.
You re-key one lock to a key for the person who will be watering your plants and feeding your cat. Then when you return you change it back.
I recall that at one point they did make a rather unusual smartkey deadbolts which had 2 smartkey cylenders stacked on top of each other
I saw a guy do it by pushing the pick in against the side bar. Just bend to get to the side bar and then he pushed hard to bind it up.
Bill talks about that for 10% of this video starting at 1:44. He also replied to another comment on here and said he couldn't get anything thicker in the side.
@@MikesDIY bb was twisting the 15thou pick and angling it. The video I watched the guy was inserting it between the bar and the core housing. Very different method to bind the side bar. Bill almost had it. Same tool. Just needs to push instead of pry.
Boooing bits everywhere
The HECK with the bits, I was trying to get at the sidebar - the subject of our investigation.
Bill, son going off to college and need to pick up some padlocks that are worth a damn. Any recommendations?
This one lol If Bill is struggling with this then it's a great choice!
Easily made keyed-alike as well as rekeyable when necessary... seems like a good idea.
Binge watch a bunch of his and LPL videos. Take notes. Never use anything with a combination. Nothing with electronics or keypad interface. Beefy Masterlock, but get a disc detainer core put into it by a locksmith.
@@junkman8742 lpl featured a keypad entry safebox recently that was actually very well made.
I opened my locksmith shop eight years ago, and when Kwikset purchased Weiser they became the new "eh, good enough" model for door locks here so there are loads about. The newer Smartkey deadbolts I've had to get into are substantially better against a quick, destructive screwdriver attack than previous versions were. I haven't had a call from one resetting itself either, and I had a half dozen of the older ones do that.
Whatever changes Kwikset has made seem to be working.
(And since it seems to be a recurring question, my favourite lubricant is called TriFlow. Works great & sprays clean.)
TriFlow is great stuff. Good for locks, and also if you're using a carbide burr on aluminum. Usually it'll load up with chips and become useless, requiring you to clean it off constantly. Spray some TriFlow on the workpiece before you start cutting, and the chips just fly right off! Makes porting and polishing go so much faster.
Shortly someone (you) will figure out a way to hack it!
My moneys on LPL. He’s usually a fount of knowledge.
That said this thing looks like there might finally be a cheapish padlock that isn’t picked in 1 minute. Kind of want to see him or lpl do some destructive testing.
The construction does not look strong the core could be pulled out
@ Good idea, but no it can't. There are 3 steel plates holding it in, secured with EIGHT steel rivets.
Andy, I didn't do any destructive testing but I CAN tell you that it took me more than 20 minutes mounted in a heavy vise to remove that core from the padlock. There is an internal retaining clip, but it cannot be removed once the plates are riveted during assembly. I had to grind off the 8 steel pins and use a chisel to split it open. It was a total PITA and totally NOT the way to open that lock. The easiest way (not counting the key) is a die grinder through the shackle - and it is a pretty tough shackle too.
@@bosnianbill sounds like the lock has earned your respect! 👍
I know your aim is to beat it by finesse rather than brute force, but how much tension can that tiny sidebar take? Can't you just put a screwdriver in it and turn the core?
This may be the issue with the rounded bar vs the square one. I read an article from 2013 that talked about this so it may have been addressed. I am only speculating.
Ha! That was my FIRST attempt! 😀 No, this new core has a lot of steel innards and will not twist open like the older models. In fact, this one's face just twists right off (it is a lower grade of metal), leaving you with the jammed up guts from hammering in the screwdriver. Given time you could probably pick all the pieces out and possibly get an open, but if going to THAT level of trouble, just use a die grinder. And no, a 36" pair of bolt cutters won't work either...sorry.
Yes, they actually make a toolsteel tool specifically to turn smart key cylinders, or a large screwdriver, Mr. Locksmith has a demo, " smart key open in few seconds"
@@gkeyman565 Yes, I HAVE some of those keys but they only worked on the earliest versions of the Smartkey, unfortunately. In this lock, they simply snap off, leaving you with a $45 broken tool in your hands.
@@bosnianbill My old boss at the locksmith shop actually *has* one of those broken nubs, but his costed $50! ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
How does this lock fare against the electric lock pick?
It wouldn't work if you can't reach the sidebar. The whole problem is the sidebar itself.
I still won't buy one.😁
Lockpickinglawyer was able to pick this lock in video 151. I don’t understand. The pins seemed to be binding when he picked it
BB would you mind checking with LPL to see what kind of camera he uses? His is always in focus.