Post-Mortem 2: Plo Koon, Sora Bulq
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- The Post-Mortem follow-up to Versus Series Strikezone: The Fanatical Taskmasters.
The purpose of the Post-Mortem series is to assess the combatants individually to gauge their approximate level of developed skill and power. My approach will be to follow my Versus Video format and assign independent ratings to their Physical Capabilities, Martial Training, and Force Abilities, and then calculating the average to assign an overall rating. While myself and my colleagues on the Fanalysis Council had agreed upon a rough seven level structure, I credit Macattack 1 with codifying it, in his debut video Ki-Adi-Mundi Vs. Kao Cen Darach, and it reads as follows:
Tier 1 - Complete Mastery
Tier 2 - Advanced Mastery
Tier 3 - Standard Mastery
Tier 4 - Advanced Application
Tier 5 - Standard Application
Tier 6 - Basic Application
Tier 7 - Basic Knowledge
Sources Referenced:
[00:16] - The New Essential Guide to Alien Species - Kel Dor, pg 96-97
[00:28], [03:28], [06:44] - The Clone Wars (animated series) - Season 1, Episode 2 - Rising Malevolence
[00:35], [04:22] - The Clone Wars: The Sith Hunters
[00:49], [05:32] - Fate of the Jedi: Outcast - Chapter Fifteen
[00:55], [01:32], [03:55], [06:50], [07:14] - The Clones Wars, issues 7-9: In Service to the Republic
[01:01], [03:13], [07:10] - Clone Wars Adventures, Volume 6 - Means and Ends
[01:10], [03:42] - The Clone Wars - Season 3, Episode 21 - Padawan Lost
[01:20] - Episode I: Jedi Power Battles
[01:23], [03:02] - Clone Wars Adventures, Volume 3 - One Battle
[02:16] - The Force Unleashed (novelization) - Part I: Imperial - Chapter 6
[02:24] - The Clone Wars Campaign Guide - Chapter IX: The Jedi - Plo Koon, pg 133
[02:28] - The Clone Wars: Adventures (online MMO) - Lightsaber Duels (minigame)
[02:44], [05:28], [05:58] - Republic, issues 36-39 - The Stark Hyperspace War
[02:54] - Episode II: Attack of the Clones
[03:51] - The Clone Wars - Season 4, Episode 6 - Nomad Droids
[05:21] - Power of the Jedi Sourcebook - Chapter 6: Jedi Traditions - Plo Koon, Jedi Master, pg 113-114
[05:39] - Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force - Part 2: The Jedi - Force Sensitive Abilities: Force Lightning, pg 82-83
[06:23] - The New Essential Guide to Characters - Jedi Council Members, Pg
[06:29] - Jedi Council: Acts of War, issues 1-4
[07:19] - The Clone Wars - Season 2, Episode 22 - Lethal Trackdown
[10:06] - The New Essential Guide to Alien Species - Weequay, pg 176-177
[11:42] - Starwars.com Databank: Bulq, Sora
[11:57], [14:21] - Jedi: Mace Windu
[12:05] - Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force - Lightsabers: Vaapad, pg 112-113
[15:27] - The Jedi Path - Part IV: Jedi Knight - Advanced Lightsaber Techniques - Form VII Lightsaber Combat: Juyo, pg 135-136
I hope you are still doing Kao Cen Darach vs Kaasim. It would be so epic!
Cant wait for that.
It would be a good fight no question
Im pretty sure kaasim would fuck him up. Dude almost killed bane.
A few good fanarts will be required for Ka'sim though
@@cobracommander3634 Only because he engineered a weakness to dual-blade fencing into Bane's style. It's his trump card to switch from a saber-staff to two blades. Against an opponent who likely has faced both consistently like Darach, he will lack the novelty he enjoyed in his duel with Bane. Darach was also just as notable a swordsman, and the only reason he lost his duel against Malgus and Vindican is because he told Satine to warn the Republic, meaning he had to fight a Tier 1.5 (Malgus) and a Tier 3 (Vindican) solo. Darach also seems to have a better integration of Force abilities into combat that Kas'im. That said Kas'im would be perfectly capable of telekinetically defending himself from any telekinesis. Both are perfectly viable competition for each other. It is always important to understand the context for why he was beating Bane in their duel. He used something Bane had never seen before, and something Bane had absolutely no game-plan to defend against it.
We truly need more of these post mortem videos. I really enjoy them.
I knew this was coming and looking forward to it. Still don't find this matchup that interesting and the whole Fanatical Taskmasters but Ive already talked about this. Im going to put thoughts in the same comment this time after I fully watch. Really lookin forward to that Post Mortem of Krayt and Malgus though.
Edit: Ok, time for some thoughts. I do like how you have fleshed out your post mortem a lot more and explaining your thought process and why Strikezone exists in the 1st place (including that naming thing). However, while I do agree with a lot here, I have some personal issues with some things.
Physically: Totally fine with this. In the orig video, I felt your were addressing Bulq's durability/composure to that of Exar Kun's causing him to be a glass cannon when in reality he is more like Berserker Mode Galen Marek.
Dueling: I know a lot of people disagree about Plo being a tier 2 duelist, but I do agree. Man disarmed Ventress with a broken arm. Bulq being tier 3 is something I don't agree with. 1st off, I consider Anakin to be a tier 2.5 not a tier 3. Comparing Anakin to Bulq, Anakin relied on natural talent, Bulq leverage his developed skill and variety of fighting styles. Overall, I consider Bulq a tier 2 martial artist. He might have the directness of a tier 3, but his variety of techniques and developed skill needs to be taken into consideration.
Force abilities: I consider your assessment of Koon's force abilities to be fine and consider him overall a comp to Shak. He might lack Shak's attunement and magnitude, but his variety more than makes up the diff. As for Bulq, again I disagree (sort of). His developed force power was enough to penetrate the force def Mace Windu (15:07). His variety is limited, and application is usually blunt, but that power +dark side channeling is a problem. Still think your not giving Bulq all of the credit in sense abilities, but Ive brought that up last time. I consider Bulq might be a overall tier 2 force wielder? He is an offensive glass cannon. His power in the force and aggression makes him dangerous offensively, but his def is poor, variety is limited, and application is blunt.
Overall:
8:18 Does we refer to everyone or just you, Evan, and Reti4? While I do see why you place him as a tier 2, I don't agree he as being dead equal to Kenobi. To Shaak Ti, I agree. But I consider Kenobi to be above both of them (not by an overwhelming margin though). Kenobi is a tier 2+, Kenobi and Plo are tier 2.
I do generally agree that Sora Bulq is an overall tier 3. While his developed skill and force power is really high, his bluntness and poor tactical abilities really do weigh him down. However, I do feel your are selling him short on some aspects.
17:35 This is an idea I really like. No where is my Kao vs Kaasim at???
18:26 Hey you said it not me.
19:06 I really like this explanation and elaboration of the Strikezone series.
20:00 Darkside Bulq is a major nerf. What a shame. Is there enough material to even do a breakdown of lightside Bulq?
Here are some random ideas I have for vs matchups. Some might be mismatches but there is something about them that got me interested.
Lord Nyax vs Vong Krayt: No lightsabers though. Ive mentioned Kar Vastor vs Lord Nyax before as a corrupted version of nature vs machine. This one is machine vs biotech slugging match.
Cade Skywalker vs an Anti Hero or Anti Villain: Cant think of who would be interesting. Maybe Darth Caedus?
Anya Kuro vs Haazen: Battle of the hax!
Exar Kun vs Shado Vao: No force abilities. 2 duelists with unique saberstaffs and techniques that take full advantage of their weapons capabilities.
Zayne vs Darth Bane: Can top tier hax overcome a mismatch in terms of power and skill?
Joke battles:
Ackbar the Untrappable vs Kenobi with Highground
Anakin vs Sandman (the Marvel character)
Darth Wredd vs Kylo Ren (in a contest of who is a bigger edgelord).
Imperial Inquisition vs Spanish Inquisition (Monty Python version)
I say Cade vs Kyle Katarn is perfect. He'd be a fun one to pit against Mara Jade, Anakin, Dooku or Kyp as well. Caedus is out of his league, though.
+wristokings That's been an idea Ive been considering with due to their exposure to the dark side and how they used their dark side abilities plus their alternative skills due their unique careers (Cade as a bounty hunter and Kyle as a stormtrooper). I wouldn't say Caedus is outside of Cade's league though. Probably would win due to force abilities, but Cade has a shot of pulling it off (Dark Transfer+Shatterpoint is some quality hax).
It's odd that Halo music fits star wars so well
It does.
I personally love all of your videos. I've been following for nearly 5 years and, since you don't post as much as some other Star Wars channels, each upload feels like a special treat.
But if you feel like you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, I would love to see a video of Darth Bane vs Mace Windu.
No one else has done this match up and I feel like it would be a really close match between them.
Can we get the " How powerful was Sora Bulq before he fell to the dark side " ?
Would love you to do a count dooku vs plo koon and later on a mace windu vs dooku or just anybody because I would love your analysis on Mace Windu going against someone who vaapad wouldn’t work against
Jensaarai now that you said you believe Kas'im would defeat Plo Koon, I wonder how well do you think Obi-Wan Kenobi would do in a duel with Kas'im?
That would be a good battle.
It's been a while but it's good to listen again
So, Sora Bulq suffers from the same weakness that most dark side users do while dueling......tunnel vision.
Couldn't it be possible that Bultar Swan studied her unarmed techniques under Micah Giiett before his death? Or, just as likely, from one of the Temple's combat instructors?
KiAudi Mundi vs Quinlan Vos for a strike zone/post mortem. Mundi is admittedly better than Vos with the lightsaber and more powerful with the force, but Vos is much more experienced as a duelist and a superior tactican ( in single combat). Mundi has been in Two serious lightsaber duals with Grevious and Ventress and while they are undeniably top tier, Vos has faced everything from low level dark Jedi and anzatii to Sora Bulq and morgukai assassin’s.( i’d honestly argue that before the retcon he had the most lightsaber duals under his belt during the clone wars for the Jedi after Windu and Kenobi.) his greater dualling experience and comfort fighting opponents with superior skill would help him bridge the gap a bit. Plus while I doubt his Vapeed would be able to leech of negative emotions due to Mundi’s relative level head, it is a fighting style he has little experience with and could give Vos an edge, plus his shien skills allow him solid counter abilities and an alternative to the ataru attacks. On the other hand Mundi has Makashi and Soresu and as both specialized in ataru they have an in-depth familiarity with that main martial base.
Now I'd love the match up to be done by Jen of Evan Nova 95.
Are we gonna get a Post Mortem for Krayt and Malgus?
Lucien Draay Vs Qui Gon Jin
I really wanna see this one.
Title: The Paradoxical Fanatics.
Lucien Draay: essential a Knights Templar of the Jedi, focused on destroying any trace of the darkside, and following the dogma of the Jedi Covenant with uncompromising or unquestioning dedication.
Qui-Gon Jinn: the philosophical warrior who followed his beliefs in the importance of all living beings and trusting the Will of the Force, even into several arguments with the Jedi Council. He allowed the Force to command him and trusted it against any form of judgement that contradicted that faith.
Both were uncompromisingly dedicated to their personal philosophies, both were highly refined and often under appreciated lightsaber masters siting just beneath the best of the best.
And very opposite Force-wielders as well.
This has got be interested.
It'd be a decent match I guess, but Jinn is just more skilled.
It's a good fight but Jinn is the likely victor
Well, while I can partly disagree with your analysis on Sora Bulq, I do wholeheartedly approve of your verdict on Plo Koon. Nice job.
For those interested, I have written a Respect Thread blog based on Sora Bulq: comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthwill3/blog/sora-bulq-respect-thread/135117/
It took me four days to upload it because I wanted to be very thorough with my research. There were a lot of features that where considerably overlooked by most, though I will not be naming names.
Saba Sabatyne vs Darth Wyyrlokk III, the Substitute Grandmasters. Any takers? *pokes Evannova*
What are saba's feats ?
this was really fascinating to listen to. i definitely agree with Sora being a Tier 1.5 for Physical and 3 for Lightsaber skills. but id class Plo Koon as a 1.5 for Lightsaber skills but thats just my view.
could we get a VS video featuring Darth Vitiate? i think you would be the perfect individual to dive deep into Vitiate and give him a really good Post Mortem.
Vitiate would likely be very difficult to use, as he has a lot of factors that are either "Insta-win" or "Insta-loss". Can't resist his telepathy? Insta-win. Can't resist lightning? Insta-win. Resist both? Insta-loss.
koon isn't 1.5, given how Legends Ventress was able to contend with him
Question: If you were to make a fan film which era would it be in and what would the plot mostly be?
Very good Where you versus series video Dark empire Luke Skywalker vs ROTS Count Dooku. It would Interesting in seen the Form II Master vs the Form V hybrid Master Luke Skywalker.
Dooku is superior in terms of power and skill, but DE Luke has the ability to pull a Anakin vs Dooku on him.
DE Luke is less skilled than the Count but is comparable to Vader as a Force user with the speed and dexterity of pre-Mustafar Anakin. He takes slim majority over Dooku.
I believe that this could go either way. Dark Empire Luke was more talented and likely even more dedicated to combat than Dooku was due to the situation of his era; where the entire purpose of his training was to become the epitome of a Jedi to continue the order, and was primarily focused on defeating the Sith, both of whom were among THE most powerful and dangerous of All Time.
Dooku was more experienced and masterful due to his lifetime study of the Force, encompassing 8 decades while Dark Empire Luke had only been training for 13 years when Darth Sidious returned as a Clone. Luke was also more masterful of his skills than Anakin was, keeping more composure and bringing just as much pure power to bare, but balanced-out with greater versatility, deliberate ingenuity and preparation. Regarding both the Force and lightsaber combat.
Anakin channeled his pure talent in a very direct way, and was a vary reactive Force-user who needed to be proved by his opponents to use combative or creative Force Powers. Plus, he focused on a very small skill-set but each skill he practiced was highly versatile and balanced, from Form V to duel-lightsabers to Form 4. Which allowed him to compete with and even defeat duelists and fighters more advanced and masterful than himself by being a more focused pure-fighter. Yet he channeled all his skill into an offensive barrage with necessary defence, rather than looked for a weaker point or angle to attack from, or a higher-quality of pure defence to support his offence.
Dark Empire Luke Skywalker already covered these failings. Whether in regular combat with the Imperial military and navy to fighting Dark-sider Forces users. He would also use the layered-approaches that Jensaarai commented as definitive of Tier 2 lightsaber combatants, with enough skill to stand among them or possibly even higher:
-direct and deliberate strength-oriented offence. -acrobatics for tactical positioning or flank maneuvers.
-stone-wall defence to outlast an enemy to convince them to join him as an ally.
-Leveraging his force-powers directly or subvertingly, or shaping his environment to make a single combative feat devastating enough to end a fight.
Dooku was more balanced and his skill and powers were enough to contend with Yoda and Mace Windu, notably on his own without any amplification like Luke had from Leia to defeat Darth Sidious. Dooku also had the greater knowledge-basis, but Luke is not unfamiliar with the Dark Side of the Force and he was literally training by Yoda and Kenobi to defeat the Sith first and foremost.
Luke himself would likely not have the pure power to overwhelm Dooku like Anakin did, due to his more balanced skill-set lacking that same degree of commitment Anakin for the best skills to defeat the Count. Yet, Luke's balanced nature may also keep his basis covered and leave less opening for Dooku to exploit, and facing a very proactive opponent. Luke won't have the same degree of an edge to defeat Dooku that his father had, but neither would he have a clear weakness for the Count to exploit.
Plus, the breadth of different powers that Luke uses for combat are wider than Count Dooku's, and he uses them with greater creativity than the Count ever showed. Although DOoku did have a lot of power and different ways to use it in his own right, and was one of the most dangerous combatants of his age.
It's a coin-flip. Dooku himself would be better overall. But looking at him and Dark Empire Luke would require a lot of dedicated analysis.
Luke was already stated in various material to be Vader's equal by ROTJ, he's more powerful than him by DE.
Yes, but people need to look deeper into that context to understand that statement.
Luke was able to fight on-par with Vader, but AFTER spending literally over a full year preparing to fight him. Luke orientated over 80% of his training solely to fight Vader specifically after their match on Cloud City. That preparation made a huge difference, and wouldn't carry the same advantage against other fighters or characters. It's like Luke building a shoto to fight Lumyia after their first encounter. He looked at the fight and trained in new ways to win against that opponent. And even then, he was able to stand even with Vader, not outright defeat him until after Force-rage was brought into play.
Luke was highly skilled, but not tempered by experience, yet. It's a matter of consistency that only decades of training or hundreds to thousands of fights can install in someone. A deficiency that could be present against other master swordsman. Albeit, Luke's skill with a tight defence, efficient and strength-based counters, using Ataru as a last resort rather than a first response, and incredible defensive Force powers makes him a formidable opponent for anyone bellow Jedi-Council level.
Darth Vader himself was also not in his top-form during Return of the Jedi.
1) he was questioning his place in the Dark side as early as their meeting on Endor. And was in total denial of it throughout their fight.
2) he did not break-out his Force abilities against Luke in any media, film or novel.
3) he was likely shaken by Palpatine's deliberate efforts to turn Luke to the Dark side and replace Vader.
4) Luke himself was not in his normal state of mind after Luke threatened Leia, needing an intense rage-boost to overcome the Dark Lord, rather than defeating him with his consistent mentality.
5) he did not want to kill or destroy Luke, and was not dedicated to the end of the fight. Making half-way efforts at most, and did not comprehend how much Luke had advanced since Cloud City.
It's a fight mired in circumstances.
ROTJ Luke simple would not have the time to develop enough depth in his skills to be higher than what Jensaarai stated to be Tier 4. This is a sharp difference from say.....Darth Bane ca.Path of Destruction. Bane trained extensively with Kas'im and Githany for over a year and tested his skills with dozens of different sparring partners at the Sith Academy. Plus, Bane had the entire Korriban archives to increase his knowledge and power during that time. When he destroyed the Brotherhood of Darkness, Bane would have been an overall Tier 3.
Luke did not have such available sparring partners or teachers so immediately available, since he did not return to Degobah, but went to Obi-Wan's hut on Tatoonie. Luke in ROTJ was roughly equal to Asajj Ventres when Dooku met her on Raatatak, before she developed more over the course of the Clone Wars.
By Dark Empire, I believe that Luke would be more skilled and diverse, both with the Force and Lightsaber combat. He was still defeated in Lightsaber combat by the younger Darth Sidious when fighting alone, so he was certainly not on on-par with Mace Windu or Darth Vader. But once Leia channeled her power in the Light side to him, the fact that Luke defeated Palpatine shows that he has the potential to advance higher, as his own native skills are not advanced far enough to the Tier 1 level.
In your opinion what separates Tier 1 from Tier 2?
Also I think Kenobi is definitely superior to Koon and Ti at least very slightly.
I'd say he's at least a Tier 2+.
He is like the other Tier 2's but even more masterful and versatile.
He's a master of Soresu, Ataru, and Jar'Kai. He also knows Shii-Cho, Shien, and Niman.
@@Jensaarai1 Ok. I see your point, thx for clearing it up
@@Jensaarai1 Thank you for the clarification between what you consider a tier 1 and a tier 2.
But idk about Kenobi being dead equal to Koon and Ti, and I kind of agree with High Ground Productions and consider him to be a tier 2+ (at least in terms of lightsaber skills).
In terms of lightsaber combat, I view Kenobi's def technique to being superior to Koon and Ti. His def technique allowed him to fend off 20 strike/sec from Grevious, Dooku's Makashii, and Anakin's Djem So/Ataru onslaught (I know Anakin wasn't performing on his A game), which I don't think Ti and Koon could pull off to the same extent Kenobi has shown. Ti wasn't performing at her peak against Grievous in their engagements, but her evasions wouldn't be successful because Grievous can stay on top of her and unload. Plo Koon might have precision and timing on his side, but he is a bit slow and not as efficient as Kenobi leaving him less viable to endure and counter Grevious's onslaught.
In force abilities, I do agree with your assessment of how Kenobi's novel applications is balanced by Koon and Ti's alternative abilities.
While your tier list is solid, I added a + and - part to it because it helped me be a bit more precise (especially in tier 1's case because there is quite a degree of variance in tier 1).
I would think when windu said vaapad mastered him that he meant he fell to the darkside meaning sora bulq couldn’t handle the power vaapad opened up to him
Where do you get your tiering system from or if you made it up where can I learn more about your criteria?
they made a video about it, I think it was an Exaur Kun/ Maul post mortum analysis that he goes into detail about it
I wouldn't use their tiering system, it's very poor. I don't want to insult them, but personal bias is clearly a very strong factor in deciding where each character stands. Look at the material available to you and create your own, don't take other people's words as gospel.
That's not the deciding factor in using the system itself - the maker of said system can be as biased as he wants, the SYSTEM ITSELF however is still valuable.
Use the system all you like. If everyone use the same system, we cut down on confusion about what the different tiers means, and can argue all we like about who belongs where on it, and how.
Terenin - No of course, I’m advocating for the same structure and all, but having Ti and Koon above Anakin is absolutely criminal.
@@Account-lu9ej it depends on how they're ranking them. It seems to me that they count skill in the Force and in duels, not just power.
Anakin was a very powerful Force user, but not very skilled. That's why Obi-Wan (well established as being relatively weak in the Force) was able to match his output combat.
great video man!!!!!
Darth Thanaton vs Darth Wyyrlok the third?
My chips are on Darth Wyyrlok personally
Gotta say Thanaton. His performance against a spirit-filled Nox is mind blowing. He's above Vader imo, very solidly.
Thanaton is too reliant on force power and severely lacks in his other skills where Wyyrlok is has held off Darth freaking Krayt in lightsaber combat. I think Darth Baras is a more balanced opponent
Would you like to do a vs match up of Darth Bane and Darth Zannah VS Darth Vader and Darth Sidious?
Team 2.
Vader could beat Bane and maul Zannah in a 1vs1. Sidious can do the same with less difficulty (though consume essence gives Bane a decent chance of pulling a win off against Sidious). Vader and Sidious ftw.
How about Padawan Obi Wan Kenobi and Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi versus Teneb Kel and Darth Thanaton.
both kenobis curbstomp kel and get destroyed by thanaton's force abilities
Nice video, though as martial artists I don’t see how Bulq is a tier below Koon. At least on par in my mind.
Also I feel it’s illogical to suggest that Bulq was just as good as a force user as he was as a martial artist...
How do you come to the conclusion that his Force power is equal to his martial skill?
Unbelievably Trash Jensaraai placed Sora Bulqs duelling skills and his force abilities in the same tier (3), suggesting he was just as developed with the force as he is with a lightsaber, which I feel is inaccurate. Personally, I would be inclined to say he is a tier 2/3 duellist, and a tier 4 force user.
Being able to break the TK barriers of other Master-level Jedi (including Windu no less) puts Bulq at tier 2.5-3 by virtue of raw power alone. I also think Sora is at least a 2.5 in the dueling category, possibly a 2, but I'm not a fan of the Forcecast/Fanalysis tier system.
Yeah, nothing suggests Koon could do the same to that version of Mace and nothing is stopping Bulq from doing that a million times over to Koon. Unless we want to debate whether Plo's barrier is as good as Mace Windu's, lmfao.
It's because he thinks that falling to the Dark Side and using Juyo (which is basically what Bulq does- Juyo, not Vapaad) degraded his skills.
He thinks Jedi Bulq is a better duellist than Koon, but Dark Jedi Bulq would be defeated as he'd let his aggression get the better of him.
I’d love to see Kit Fisto vs Antares Draco, or Lucien draay vs Quinlan vos. Darth wredd vs wolf stazen . A’shard Hett vs Bastilla Shan. Kit fisto vs Lucien Draay would also be cool.
Fisto bodies Draco without much trouble. Same with Draay.
Draay would beat Vos after a good fight.
Wredd is tougher and has superior armor to Sazen but Sazen is the more skilled duelist by a slight margin. Close but I favor Wredd.
No idea with Hett and Shan.
Shan is a superior force wielder but Hett is the superior duelist.
Could u make Proxy in the versus series?
Plo Koon Vs. Count Dooku
Not a stomp, still a mismatch. Dooku with relatively little difficulty.
Good idea.
wristofkings it is a decent match. Plo Koon's mastery of both variants of form 5 give him a strong defense. Plo Koon's focus on timing and precision places him in good stead against the more complex elements of Dooku's Makashi style. If Plo Koon can hold off Dooku long enough for Dooku's fatigue to set in than the fight would tip in Plo Koon's favor as Dooku's performance degrades. In terms of force powers they have both been described as telekinetic savants and have developed there powers down the same road, using every tool at there disposal to its maximum effect. Plo Koon and Dooku are equally exotic in their array of abilities and in terms of magnitude they both where strong enough to effortlessly blast Asajj Ventress away. So this fight is fair competition.
+wristofkings My thoughts are the same.
It's a decent match but Dooku is both the superior swordsman and more diverse and powerful force user. He almost certainly wins
*Abeloth vs Rosh Penin.*
Let the games begin!
Kreia vs Darth Marr?
Another interesting video
great video
think you can do Finn Galfridian vs Zayne Carrick
Zayne stomps. Supernatural luck/probability manipulation is some serious hax.
Do you have a comprehensive tier list?
ruclips.net/video/LP6wsDMI7x4/видео.html
Why are you mentioning Kenobi, Koon, and Ti when we all have wanted that video for over a year now :(
+ThePersoner11 ikr. Been waiting for a long time. Its worse than the Scourge vs Kota wait.
Truth! I mean, we already know Kenobi’s beard can solo, but still!
+Tanner Lowrie Indeed.
Hey when is the battle that you and evan and reti coming out with gonna b done
7.5 divided by three is equal to 2.5 not three. If you can give him a physical rating of 1.5 then you can give him an overall rating of 2.5.
It's not purely mathematical.
@@unbelievablytrash9458 Undoubtedly. Though I believe that the way it was done downplays Bulq's abilities.
What tier do you guys consider Darth Malgus
+Darth Bane In his 1st post mortem, Jensaarai1 visually showed Malgus being tier 1 and directly comp to Vader and Mace Windu.
Rob George ok thank you 👍🏾
I heavily disagree with that. None of the three of them are tier 1 or tier 9 in Gillard's terms.
My Star wars Or tier 8 in Gillard’s system.
My Star wars I meant Bane. Bane’s probably tier 8 with Windu, Vader, and Dooku.
Darth Bane vs Darth Revan or Obi-Wan Kenobi (any type) vs Emperor Palpatine.
SWLoreNerd55 Darth Revan narrowly. Watch Antoine’s Revan and Malak vs Bane and Zannah.
Sidious stomps. Kenobi is a superior duelist, but Sidious’s vastly superior augmentation makes this a nonissue, and Kenobi wasn’t even CLOSE to matching Sidious’s raw power. This is someone whose lightning was able to push Windu’s lightsaber back to his face so close he was choking on the smell, while Windu was using Vaapad.
@@Spellshot693 There are a bit of Jedi and Sith that has potential to rival Sidious's raw or full power.
@@TwoFace123-f2n are you saying that all Jedi have the potential to rival Sidious's raw or full power or just obi wan? Either way that's not true.
@SWLoreNerd, while I'd love to see Darth Bane vs Darth Revan, Obi-Wan vs Emperor Palpatine is an utter mismatch. While Kenobi has shown to be effective against overwhelming offensive duelists like Sidious, he has never encountered an opponent with the level of offensive output that Sidious has obtained. Obi-Wan has also shown difficulty defending against the force powers of adeptswith comparable power, so given Sidious's approach, if Obi-Wan gives him any trouble with a lightsaber, he will wipe the floor with Obi-wan with overwhelming force power.
I could probably be accused of being a Kenobi fanboy, but here I think it is a question of what wins- A perfect defense vs a perfect offence? I would think I would favor the offensive posture here.
-Darth Maul (TPM) vs Asajj Ventress (Legends)
-Ahsoka Tano (Rebels) vs Anakin Skywalker
-Meetra Surik vs Ram Kota
-AND PLEASE! Mace Windu vs Exar Kun
TCW/Son of Dathomir Maul not only was able to deal with both Mace Windu and Aayla Secura *simultaneously,* he also *briefly* contended with Sidious. Even if ol' Sheev was just playing with his food, that puts TCW Maul above virtually anything even Legends Ventress can do. I'd say Legends has the better portrayals of both characters and their abilities.
Anakin as of ROTS would roflstomp Rebels Ahsoka. Nothing Rebels Ahsoka has done indicates to me that she's above the level of non-Council Masters like Luminara Unduli or Quinlan Vos let alone Ventress or Maul in their primes.
Meetra would win. Kota is not a wimp for sure and can hold his own in the battlefield, but even discounting Surik's status as a wound in the Force leaves her with better feats than Rahm with the possible exceptions of surviving a fall through atmosphere and briefly taking Sidious off guard.
Kun vs Windu is one I wanna see. Leaning towards Mace on the back of Shatterpoint and Vaapad, but Kun's Sith sorcery and other arcane abilities make this fight hard to call.
Maul > Ventress after a good fight.
ROTS Anakin takes Ahsoka apart. Even AOTC Anakin would.
Not sure on MEetra VS Kota.
Mace VS Kun would be interesting.
@@wristofkings only "but" in your analysis... I wanted TPM Maul against Ventress, not TCW Maul
Took me a while on this one but now leading on Ventress. Her skill with Makashi allows her to keep distance which lowers the effectiveness of Maul's Teras Kasi, dual blades has logistical advantages on std saberstaffs, more proactive force Weidler, and way more experienced with handling force wielders. But this one is a matchup I tend to go back and forth on. Also, just because the odds are in Ventress's favor doesn't mean TPM Maul puts up a good fight and has a shot of pulling a win off.
Okay, Ahsoka in Rebels ability to penetrate Vader's Tk barrier is pure PIS. Anyway, Anakin would likely pull a win here.
Jedi Exile ftw. She is a more well rounded swordsbeing, more experienced facing other force wielders, and wound in the force hax.
On the one hand, Kun has that beautiful trakata saberstaff and hax sorcery. On the other hand, Shatterpoint and Vappad are really useful against Kun (Shatterpoint to find the weaknesses of Kun's saberstaff technique and suddenly Kun is killed by his own weapon). idk on this one.
While I enjoy the council forecast content with others most, and starkly disagree with some of your appraisals I do respect you giving comparisons to explain your lines of thought. It also seems some of your opinions on council members like kit fisto, ki adi mundi and plot koon have evolved over time, you seem to fall victim to "phases" where you vastly and whimsically under and/or overrate different characters at different times.
Where does this tier system come from?
Macattack1 is the orig creator.
Nick Gillard and George Lucas created the original tier system.
General Grievous vs Exar Kun please!
Kun disables him with one spell. Grievous has no knowledge of sorcery and no force defense to prevent it from turning him to dust.
I meant in an analysis of saber forms only.
In that case Grievous takes sabers easily.
If Kun can't use the force he has literally no way of defeating Greivous. With the force though Kun wins.
Kun curbstomps with force abilities.
In a pure lightsaber duel, interesting because I both consider them Proactive Combat Oriented Niman Specialists.
On the one hand, Grevious is weak to unpredictability which Kun is one of the best at. On other hand, Grevious's combat computers would let him calculate and adapt to Kun's trakata techniques. Not to mention 4 blades have so much logistical advantage over archaic saberstaff. So Im going with Grevious on this one.
Yaaaayyyy
Ur vids are soo good bro like I don't understand
Solid everything and that music really set the tone of the whole video Bravo 👏
Too bad Anakin is directly stated to be level 9 combatant by ROTS-the same level as Yoda and Sidious. And that’s BEFORE fully embracing the Darkside & becoming the pre-suited Darth Vader. At which point he essentially became the first level 10. A level that didn’t even technically exist: Lucas himself and Nick Gillard made this VERY clear…. He is not a Tier 3. Headcanon is not Star Wars man. Anakin by ROTS is a tier 1. That is direct in-universe fact…. Have you not read the ROTS Novelization in a while?? Anakin absolutely did not just “overpower” Dooku. He did not win solely because he “overpowered an old man” like you seem to insinuate.. Yes, he DID overpower him, it clearly states Dooku could not even deflect his blows, but it ALSO very clearly states he thoroughly outclassed him by that point and Dooku had ZERO answer for him at all. Period. HE was the superior swordmaster. Like it cannot be stated any clearer than it is on pages 69/70-onward to the end of the fight.
Just don’t undercut certain characters; Anakin is not the only one, just the main one.. It’s like some of you have this idea that Anakin by ROTS is still the same Anakin from AOTC and that could not be more wrong. He is exponentially superior to himself at the beginning of the war by its end-by ROTS…. It is also directly stated plain as day Anakin would’ve wrecked Grievous.. Yet you have it the other way around.. That cannot be further from the truth. That official infinites story has already been done in the legends continuity: Anakin defeated him much the same way Kenobi did. On Kamino. He cut off all his mechanical arms... Every Lucasfilm official that has commented on it ALL say Anakin would’ve killed Grievous. All of them. Including Lucas.
Not to mention the film itself was quite literally written with him defeating and killing Mace Windu. Look at the videogame adaption. That literally comes straight from the original screenplay. And could not be changed in time to coincide with the film’s release because it was changed in the film so late in production... Anakin by ROTS would have canonically killed both Windu and Grievous. And DID kill Dooku-who himself blatantly toys with Grievous AND has bested Windu on multiple occasions before even leaving the Jedi Order and growing even stronger as a Dark Lord-yet you put him at tier 3…. I don’t get it. He is literally the same tier as Yoda and Sidious by the duel on the invisible hand. Directly stated as much plain as day. That is tier 1. If anyone in Star Wars deserves to be a tier 1 combatant. It’s pre-suit Darth Vader. Who Sidious himself blatantly ADMITTED was his superior. Again, read the film novelization and the comic adaption. He plainly tells him: “Lord Vader, your skills are *unmatched* by *any* Sith before you” after sacking the Jedi Temple. There’s no getting around that. It could not be more clear……. But that’s just the main one. You also undercut Yoda, Maul, and multiple others I can think of. You never really overestimate anyone and I like that a lot about you. Like a lot. But you do tend to underestimate some highly advanced characters from time to time. You’re still the best descriptor out there on this subject, analysis-wise unmatched. I just wish you’d put a slightly less headcanon into some of them. And yes I know that’s hard to do when all of it is a matter of opinion and understanding, but there ARE strict power levels in-universe that counteract that ever having to get in the way. It’s ONLY the more obscure characters that have to be based almost entirely on opinion and understanding, not the major ones.
ALSO, the title is fine. It fits a fight between them. And you do a fine job in attributing both-don’t sell yourself short in that regard. Like I said, you are unmatched when it comes to pure analysis of different combatants. That’s why you get so many views……(Btw, I think you should do Kenobi vs Katarn at some point. I’d say Kenobi wins it but I’d be real interested to see your own analysis of that match-up).
Plo Koon vs Count Dooku
Dooku
Plagueis vs Cadeus
Good matchup, I second this.
Plagueis
Ki Adi Sandwich - Caedus is below TPM Palpatine level now?
Account 2 Plagueis is above TPM Palpatine, who, in turn, is superior to Caedus.
Ki Adi Sandwich - Nothing puts Plagueis above TPM Palpatine, and nothing puts Caedus below him.
Senya Tirall vs Lumiya
Ooh, this is good.
@@wristofkings thanks man
Lumiya whips Senya to death. It would be one hot fight (hehehe).
if you like 50+ ladies then sure
tbh Senya can catch durasteel whips with the lower half of her saber pike and then use her saber half to catch saber part of Lumiya's whip
Rey vs a person since she will automatically win with her mary sue powers
Rey vs Korra (Seasons 1-3) from Legend of Korra.
When Mary Sue powers cancel out because both are mary sues
lol, I seriously hate her character.
Sora vs maul!
I’d say darth maul by a slight edge
Kylo Ren(The Last Jedi) VS Ashoka Tano (Rebels)
Kylo Ren lost to a girl who never held a lightsaber. Tano stops.
@@unbelievablytrash9458 If Kylo Ren is shirtless he stomps.
Tano can't take the swole.
@@robgeorge4581 Of course. The swole is unbeatable unless you possess superior swole.
@@unbelievablytrash9458 Or the high ground. Or Sand. Or Unlimited Power!!!
Or the mixture of Mary Sue+Plot Armor.
These things can take the swole.
Shaak Ti vs Darth Malgus
Malgus wins after a decent fight.
No contest. Shaak Ti would lose, while putting up a good fight. Malgus is familiar with the energetic and evasive approach that she uses from Satale Shan. And Malgus himself can outclass her with both Lightsaber combat and Force-combat.
Darth Malgus spent decades living through regular fights with Jedi and Sith, with a huge range of fighting-techniques and situations. The man brings greater magnitude and intensity than Ti, coupled with equal amounts of self-discipline and combative creativity.
The only real advantages that Ti would have are
1) her greater spatial and environmental awareness than Malgus.
2) her speed, which could pressure him when coupled with her precision.
Yet Malgus is a grater combative Force-wielder, can take any wounds that are less than an instant-kill, and brings a huge amount of pressure on his opponents. Ti often looks for breaks during combat to reassess and regather her energy to continue, but Malgus would not give her any or such breaks would give him the chance to recompose himself and attack her.
While Ven Zallow and Arryn Lenyr were able to pressure Malgus through their superior speed, his fortitude, immense skill and creativity created his victories during their fights. Shaak Ti is capable enough to avoid this, but lacks enough Power and dedication to the Force to win, and Malgus himself has often fought and defeated more masterful duelists by being a better pure-fighter.
Even in Shaak Ti planned-out their fight in advance, that would not make it more likely for her to win. As she likely did the same thing on Felucia in-case Darth Vader himself found her. Yet even then her plan failed to kill Galen Marek, who was a less masterful and developed combatant than Vader or Darth Malgus were.
TI could give a great fight, but she could only win against Malgus in 2 cases:
1) a fluke or lucky win.
2) by bringing every advantage should would have together in the perfect situation.
Malgus hammer the crap out of Shaak Ti. Ti can contend, and has a shot of pulling it off, but Malgus ftw.
Malgus still smokes her.
I am sure, Darth Malgus overthrows Shaak Ti.
I'm still confused as to what Koon has done that compares to contending with a pre-prime Mace Windu... Plo gets a thorough beating from Sora here.
Single-handedly defeating Count Dooku's pet serial killer is nothing to thumb your nose at. Neither is almost moving faster than the human eye can perceive. My question to you is what has Mr I'm-going-to-be-ragdolled-by-every-man-and-his-dog done to contend with the reigning master of Shien and Djem-So? The logistics add up to Bolq being somewhat out of his element. Further, Bolq is not on the level of pre-prime Mace. Their connection and application of the Force are in different worlds
Plo Koon never defeated Ventress. Moving faster than the eye can see is a feat shared by every single Jedi, as described in the 'Jedi vs Sith Essential Guide to the Force.' Wait who's been ragdolled by everyone? Sora Bulq? That's blatantly wrong. Where is your source for Koon being 'the reigning master of Shien and Djem-So' ?
That last comment is unsubstantiated.
@@Account-lu9ej dude, it's been confirmed in a video game, a sourcebook that plo koon is a master of shine and djem so. It's right in the video if you actually took the time to watch it
First
Second