Battery Charger Discharger Board Module
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Voltage controlled relay module with numerous additional features. Just another complicated user interface to learn.
Battery Charger Discharger Board Under Voltage Over Voltage Protection Module UK www.ebay.co.uk...
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NOTE: I just reconnected this module to my 24V battery and it fried its own buck regulator - smoke came out of the inductor :(
Well it said you won when you started it up. Did it say you lost or game over when it was fried?
It had its fun with me, then started smoking.
@@mikebond6328 😂😂 Thanks for the laugh👍
Mine is slightly another version but it states 12V at the input
you should use a 50 amp relay. the reason for the 50 amp relay is for overhead. use the 10 amp relay to control the 50 amp relay. on the connections of the 50 amp relay should be... normally closed = positive of the solar, normally open = should be the positive of the antminer, and the common should be the positive of the battery. so the solar can only charge the battery and not power the antminer. i have a similar setup with my backup power supplies
The amount of money spent to get these miners running is more than they will ever create 😉
This was *SOOOO much more enjoyable* to watch WITHOUT mid roll ads! Please keep them off in the future too! :-)
I've never seen an ad on a JI video... maybe it's something to do with the adblocker.
@@JulianIlett I would also get it for free if I rolled the ads, the real question is who pays you.
@@benbaselet2026 - I don't want to block ads for the channels I watch and *support* BUT *_mid roll_* ads are wrong! They disrupt the flow and now YT blocks how many you will see because even YT knows the more there are in the time line the more likely viewers will leave the video and YT. That being said Julian Ilett is the ONLY channel I watch that still has mid roll ads. All the other electronics channels I watch (bigger and smaller) have figured out that they should turn off mid roll ads for the good of their channel. I hope Julian continues to keep them off.
@@ElmerFuddGun Yeah, I rather just send the bucks via Patreon etc. to the ones I think deserve it.
A suggestion, on those green power connectors, paint one side either black or red so that polarity is more obvious.
You can calculate the time it takes to charge a capacitor, because the microfarad value is equal to the milliamp hour for a capacitor. Of course it's scaled to micro, which is 10^3, therefore 2200 microfarads is equal to 2.2 milliamps.
This can get *really complicated* with all the _independent thinking_ devices here. Relay board, BMS controller, "ideal" diode all with different objectives. This is where a master controller (MCU) solution would shine. It could take in even more sensors and prevent for example turning on a miner when the battery voltage is only reading high because of the solar panels, etc.
Or instead the under voltage/discharge controller could have a time delay that holds the output off for a preset time after the input voltage goes above the switch on threshold. That way the PV system should have plenty of time to recharge the battery before the output is restored.
Switching high current DC is harder than you think. Most relays can survive switching the current on but have problems switching it off. If an arc forms there is nothing to stop it, unlike AC where it stops as the voltage passes 0V.You can get DC relays with magnets by the contacts to try and push the arc away from the contacts and break it. Look for Magnetic blow-out or Magnetic quenching.
I have a 500A DC contactor somewhere - I'll see if I can find it.
you'll torture those relay contacts with the inrush to the buck's input caps, and also breaking that 10A DC when they turn things off. you'll prob end up welding them closed . Also isn't repeatedly yanking the power to the miner, a computer after all, asking for trouble in the long run?
it would be better to leave the buck connected and have these modules serve pilot duty to operate a MOSFET or disrupt a separate bms used only for discharging (it could interrupt a cell voltage sense line to force it to shut off), or to send a signal to the ant miner to tell it to shut down, if such an input is available.
That XT90 bolt block at 23:05 is nasty! It's just waiting to get shorted out. Why didn't you use wires like all the other connections?
Your video came in very useful today. I bought one of those to play with. Right now it switches a backup up charger on after the panels output drops to keep from damaging the lead acid battery. It charges if the voltage drops below 12v and off when it climbs above 13. During the day it's sits at 13.8. I ordered a couple more for some other applications. I'd like to figure out the serial protocol to see if it is of use. Thanks again!
Ya, don't use a metal screwdriver as a pointer around those 24V live bolts! - 24:10
Spoilsport, I was waiting for the flash and bang if he did happen to short it out…☹️
@@Mark1024MAK - He seemed to notice the problem when he switched to using the pen. BUT the best solution is to not have the bolt hazard there in the first place!
Bolt hazard solution coming soon :)
Two things come to mind immediately:
1. Instead of running a relay, maybe you want to use a DC contactor instead. This will likely be more reliable long term.
2. Top balancing the cells is fine, but it usually requires you to do it on every cycle or at least repeat it after every few cycles, otherwise your cells will start drifting again, especially when they aren't new and matched anymore. Your charging method doesn't do that though. For a more long term solution you could try bottom balancing these cells instead, for example at 2.5V, and then set the lower limit at the relay board accordingly to 20V so it disconnects the battery at its bottom balanced voltage level. This will make the cells drift apart towards their end of charge voltage where the BMS will then disconnect once the first cells reaches the upper threshold. The battery voltage at this point would be your end of charge voltage, if you'd regulate it, making the BMS redundant in terms of cell protection. Which is probably a good thing, otherwise you have to deal with several devices trying to do the same job.
I dont think bottom balancing will change much, the BMS only top balances so if it is going to try balancing the cells it will do it at the top. I think Julian does need a charge controller unless he uses another one of the battery charge/discharge boards to connect the solar when it is under the high voltage cutout of the BMS. But this can be eliminated with a buck regulated charge controller that will keep a constant voltage on the battery just under the cutoff of the BMS.
@@SuperBrainAK Well, the BMS doesn't do balancing at all, so at the moment this is effectively an unbalanced battery and it will become more and more unbalanced with every cycle when the effect of the single instance of top balancing X cycles ago wears off. Bottom balancing could potentially be a huge difference. It gives you two specific voltage levels to work with (instead of monitoring each individual cell voltage), for low and high voltage cutoff, which is what you want when using these relay boards.
@SuperBrainAK Yes, I'm thinking another charge/discharge board on the solar input. Ultimately I want the BMS to do nothing at all (its balancing function is next to useless anyway).
I had lots of problems trying to use those units.
The smaller unit uses the switching thresholds of a 555 timer and the one you tested uses higher level logic.
They both have relay limitations.
I was using it in conjunction with a 30 amp battery charger to recondition sulfated batteries.
The relay switched the AC voltage to the primary of the charger and only needed to switch 4 amps on and off.
All went well until I started charging a battery that had a high internal resistance.
As soon as the charger would turn on, the voltage would jump up to over 14.5 vdc and the charger controller would turn off, causing the voltage of the uncharged battery to immediately from below 7 vdc turning the charger right back on again. The oscillation on and off, caused the contacts in the relay to arc and weld and the charger was permanently in the on state after that. Luckily I was there to turn it off manually!
I tried 2 more brand new charge control units and they both failed the same way.
One solution was to integrate the voltage sensing path to add some delay in the switching cycle, with was a huge improvement, but eventually the relay still failed.
I ended up pulling the relay and replacing it with an opto isolator that had a built in zero crossing detector and using it to fire a triac to switch the power on and off to the charger.
No problems with reliability after that..
I put the input diode of the opto isolator where the coil of the original relay was connected. A very easy mod.
And since the only triac I had lying around the shop at the time was one rated at 35 amps RMS with a 200 amp surge capability, I can switch any size charger I want with it.
I believe the relays that come with the board either do not meet spec or they are not capable of handling any type of inductive load,
For the high current DC switching you are doing, I would still use opto coupling in place of the relay coil; but for DC switching I would use the output of the opto to saturate a power fet to switch high current dc.
For external switching, I'd use a solid state relay. These switch silently, but also don't burn up excessive power in the coil.
I used an SSD in my solar accumulator project, and I'm glad I did.
SSDs are definitely worth considering.
Thanks John. Can you get them for high current DC? I'll have a look into it.
Bought a SSR40DD :)
Instead of charging frequently you should have used the relay contact to charge the capacitor
NL = nominal limit ?
Don't forget the relay board is reading the voltage after the voltage drop caused by the main current wires. The "Battery Checker" isn't drawing much current thus its measurement should be more accurate.
Indeed. That accounts for the 200mV difference.
You could easily layout your own board that does both things on one board. Put the connectors in a suitable place, OLED display, rotary encoder UI and big mosfets instead of a relay. The code would be quite simple too.
You could even add current monitoring and display it all on the OLED.
I think it's the relay hysteresis and the capacitor can take charge so much faster than what this was intended for.
I don't know if you noticed before it blew the buck convertor, but something under the display gets very hot very quickly while the relay is being driven. I haven't taken one apart yet to see if there is a separate relay driver or whether they're driving the relay direct from the processor ( hope not!).
A _simple_ solution for the low current rating relay would be to use that relay to control a larger 24V coil relay. You could use a 12V car relay but would have to reduce the drive current. Car relays are often rated at 30-40A and can be purchased locally.
Yeah, there's a nice 24V 500A relay/contactor on eBay I'm looking at.
One very important thing to note, relay contacts that switch high current DC loads, especially loads that look like or are inductive, the contacts take a lot of punishment. The steady state current is not too much of a concern. It’s the long arc when the contacts break that does the damage. For maximum protection, the following arrangement is recommended: Use MOSFETS as the normal switching element, with a suitable relay contact wired in series. The control circuit should switch the relay off after the MOSFETS switch off. This arrangement reduces the relay contact damage, but keeps the relay so that in the event of the MOSFETS going short circuit, you still switch the load off.
Is it possible to calibrate the onboard voltmeter?
The relay track separation on the rear of the board with the ELV circuit is terrible. I'd be concerned about using this board for switching mains voltage. Best option would be to use the relay to switch a separate relay/contactor/MOSFET.
every single time he asked "why is it nl" my view focused more and more angry on the 2nd line of his printout :D but who needs instructions right? xD
You might find it interesting to look into power path IC's
thats a neat cheap little module, too much chinglish but still deems to work as intended. Mosfets would definitely be an improvement. I think you should invest in an automotive fuse block that way each connection has the correct fuse and will get rid of the stack of XT-90's. Very cool project cant wait to see the new batteries arrive!!!
I have a number of controllers like that. Programming the things is a right pain.
I would connect the discharge controller directly to the battery cells, not through the BMS. Also I would use a solid state relay for those high current loads.
Just bought a SSR40DD. I'd still like the ultimate protection of the BMS though :)
@@JulianIlett Doesn't your BMS have a dedicated protected discharge connection then? Since you shouldn't have the solarpanel voltage on the load when the battery is full.
Just wondering if the Display shows END and you press SET does it exit.
nl or upside down UL
What's a cryptocurrency minor? What solar charge controller are you using and what cells are in your lithium battery , they look big
why not use the 10 amp relay to switch a 30 amp relay or contactor ??
Squeak !
I may head down that route next.
I wonder if you could use 2 of these, one set to charge, one to discharge and use it to condition cells
I'm looking for something like this to charge my 24V LIFePo4 pack to 80% capacity for longevity since off the shelf chargers all charge to 100% would something like this feeding it a constant voltage (say 26.5VDC) be safe?
If they make these that manage to keep their magic smoke on the inside, you could probably use one as a kind of dump load controller once solar has charged the house battery to a predetermined voltage, say for a hot water pre-heater (or ant miner).
Very accurate module even safe thanks 👍
Another good video of tech, just a shame they are so expensive, The W1209 temperature board video you did a couple of years ago are now at £2 each, maybe these will come down in price, founf the same one on Aliexpress for £3.09, might be intresting to play with.
Nether limit?
Yes, I like it :)
@@JulianIlett Sounds typically pompous and incorrect for google translate. It's alot better than translating any other language than english to or from my native swedish.
Be careful with the on-board relay. I had one of these give up after only 3 months with a 5amp load, relay contacts permanent closed. Have since changed modules to an easier setting one ( coild be one that you have ordered)
Mine ones relay contact stuck within three switchings and i had to knock it hard to separate the terminals. Cheap shouldn't be low quality.....
Could have soldered the thin red wires to the back of the PCB to save some of the mess.
i think a different bms with separate charge and load will help solve the problem
They're not easy to find.
@@JulianIlett just been looking I see what you mean
To my mind, each cell should have its’ own charge/discharge controller with only the output of the battery pack being of concern. Each cell is going to charge and discharge at a different rate and particularly with ageing effects. Constantly trying to top balance the cells is inefficient. If you are going to constantly micro manage each cell, then a controller such as an Arduino is going to be necessary. At least with an Arduino you can have a screen displaying all the required data without constantly looking at different displays and tabbing through pages of data and settings info.
In my next video I try out a flying capacitor active balancer which looks very impressive.
You'll need a regulator for the solar panels or at least another one of those boards to cut the solar panels when the voltage gets too high.
Yes I do. Disconnecting the solar panel from the battery should be easier on the relay because they're at similar voltages.
its like a battery protect.. all those things have a big >? when connected!!!!!!.. whats up with sparking> ?
I think it is time to do your own PCB to do all this. Call it the Batteruino...
I just made a similar comment before I read yours !
I have a PCB coming, but it's not what you're suggesting :)
@@JulianIlett Still looking forward to it! :)
I'm thinking a good solution would be an Arduino along with a "3D printer MOSFET" and a voltage divider.
A CMOS 7555 along with suitable resistors for the two voltage dividers, could be used to do the control part. Then either use suitable MOSFETS or your own choice of 30A relay.
I think the reason for the relay heating up is because you are putting 24V into a 12V coil. LOL. I'd swap out the relay for a 24V 40A version to be on the safe side.
The relay has a 5v coil.
@@JulianIlett It must have it's own 5V regulator then, otherwise at 24V, it would burn out realy quickly.
High current relays often run warm simply due to the heat from the coil. If you measure the coil resistance, you can work out how much power the relay coil is using.
@@Mark1024MAK No, the amperage has nothing to do with the coil rating. The current of the relay denotes how many amps you can put through the contacts before it arcs across., Sorry.
@@frankowalker4662 - I think there is a misunderstanding here. Yes, the rating of the relay contacts is not directly linked to the coil rating. However, higher current relay contacts have more mass (larger contacts), and hence need a coil that has more power to operate them. Hence it will produce more heat than a smaller relay that has smaller contacts. This assumes the contact arrangement is the same. Obviously if a relay has multiple sets of contacts it becomes more complex.
What I was trying to say is that even if there is no current through the contacts, the coil will produce heat.
Isn't "spring" the same as Ri?
Should the discharge controller be on the battery side of the solar/battery connector?
It should be between the battery and the load.
Oh dear ! I was thinking about what you are trying to do here and would it not be something that you could design and build yourself ? reading voltages and switching relays or MOSFET's is very Arduinoey perhaps you could make it with just the functions you need after all you have made measuring stuff in the past that works great, just a thought ....cheers.
I may end up doing that - but I haven't played with off-the-shelf modules for a while :)
@@JulianIlett Don't get me wrong the 'off the shelf' stuff is fascinating to watch :)
A CMOS 7555 along with suitable resistors for the two voltage dividers, could be used to do the control part. Then either use suitable MOSFETS or your own choice of 30A relay.
Only Julian thinks red tape over red display is better ;D
Yes, because red tape let's red light through :)
It *_IS BETTER!_* Designers have been using red plexiglass over LED displays for ages. Because it works.
i wonder what power this will consume, relay energised vs standby
I have a similar thing only difference it measures the temperature. At 12V 25mA at standby, 65mA when energized
i like the idea but the complexity and the factors involve are just too much for beginner...
nether limit? bit of a stretch
It's good :)
Can't you just shut down the miner in a civilised manner, by sending it a command?
Yes you can. You have to SSH into the miner at its IP address and issue a poweroff command. It doesn't actually turn the power off, but it does stop the hashing activity which greatly reduces power consumption. But there's no equivalent power on command, so to restart the miner, the DC supply must be completely cut.
@@JulianIlett there's the ethernet power on packets. It requires some power, a live ethernet connection, but might do the job. Certainly gentler than a 30 amp relay :)
@@JulianIlett oh! Wait! The miners can't start their mining with a command? Wow. Oversight in the software department.
Would wake on lan not work?
@@prduguid yeah, that's what I meant with 'ethernet power on packets', wake on lan.
36 minutes of mostly bubbling away. Can't you possibly be more respectful to viewes' time?
Put your act together and then tape it.
People are switching to 4G and that makes a difference.
Tnx
My viewers love the babbling :)
What does "4G" have to do with anything here?
John probably has limited mobile data and watching 36 minutes of me 'bubbling' could cause him to hit his data limit.
Here's a suggestion: knock the quality down to 480p, and watch at 2x speed. Also, consider looking at the video length and putting it into your watch later list if you're on a mobile connection for later if it looks too long.