Recharging Completely Flat Lipo Batteries
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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The little microcontroller in these BattGo lipos drained the pack down to zero volts.
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DISCLAIMER - Don't do what I did in this video. In fact don't do anything - doing stuff is dangerous!
yep stay in bed and what every you do, do not move !
This is why I rather watch other people do stuff.
That way, when they goof up, I can laugh at them.
You ain't seen dangerous till you've seen how I roller skate on the streets lol, I have zero fear of cars ha ha.
Julian! You never let me do ANYTHING! All I want to do is hook two 12 volt car batteries in series! To get 24 volts! With nothing in between! Why can't I do that? ;-) (Please, Don't EVER do that, people. Instant inferno). My disclaimer.
I put my pants on 😮 I'm like a stunt man or sumink 😁
Been into rc for 10 plus years and have never heard of BATGO. every day's a school day
Spektrums smart tech. their chargers even looks just like relabeled isdt chargers.
I would have used a bench PSU and trickle charged individual cells to about 2.6v. Do them one at a time until they matched and then use a pack charger.
I never thought of doing that with the diode setting. Genius, Julian! (I like to charge batteries slowly, also. They scare me a little).
Interesting video. I actually extracted some batteries from "old" laptop(spoiler alert! they still hold incredible charge). These batteries had 0.012 volts or something. I charged individual cells using tp4056 module as I knew that this IC provides extremely small trickle current to lift the voltage up until 3v. Now, it's working surprisingly well. I now use it to drive my raspberry pi 4 for hours
Im in the RC hobby and the way i get dead Lipo's to charge is by setting my charger to Ni-MH and limit the current in the charger settings till i get the pack to a voltage that Lipo mode will work and then limit the current in that mode as well and keep an eye on individual cell voltage and resistance in the chargers display.
I use a genuine Sky Rc iMAX B6 flashed with Cheali charger custom firmware.
exact and right sir , my very technique and it works every time
Yeah same here. Or I just use a bench power supply in CC-CV
@@DrGreenGiant im waiting for the hoards of people who will scream at him that his house will burn down, RC Groups is full of those types but lipos can be safely recovered if you watch how they behave, those which cannot be recovered make themselves known before they become a danger and you just bin them.
Actually, you salvage the good cells and bin the bad but that opens the door to even more jobsworths who will scream NEVER DISASSEMBLE A LIPO PACK pmsl
@@stevefox3763 Yeah, the level of paranoia here was off the scale! :-)
what i do also
You just need a pie dish. ;)
I’ve reanimated flat lipos using my bench power supply. Usually it’s enough to bring the voltage up to about 3 V per cell, so the charger can recognize the battery again. But it’s very important to monitor the battery temperature closely! I prefer to use a high current from the start. If the battery survives that without fire or heating up, chances are very good, that everything will be fine later, too.
I just spent today going through old battery's testing and charging too, I find it very therapeutic....cheers.
Cheese I do that every so often:-)
@@fredflintstone1 Squeak !
If you have an imax b6 type charger, you can connect the battery to the charger, then charge it as a lead acid battery. If cell is too low. Set pb to 2 cell. Then increase cell count as it keeps rising.
You can also use nimh as well, thats what most use. If you have an imax B6, have you flashed yours with cheali charger custom firmware? If not then I highly recommend you do, it VASTLY improves the charger and both my B6 chargers have been running it for a couple of years now.
@@stevefox3763 thanks for the suggestion. Mine is a bit faulty. I'll try it on the next one I buy.
@@azimalif266 Its an order of magnitude better than the stock firmware, you will love it!
@@stevefox3763 ok. Thanks.
Be a little careful here, when they've been discharged that deep for any length of time, they can start to develop shorts between the materials internally, which can give them a nasty self-discharge.
Pretty obvious when that happens though - you bring them up to a volt and then a minute or two later they're flat again. These ones were fine, so it's worth a try.
Why not plug the LiPo balance wire into the battery checker to read the individual cell voltages? You should be able to power the checker with another source like USB when the battery pack is too low to power it. This saves any chance of shorting out the DMM leads and allows you to see all the voltages at the same time.
There is a micro-b connector on the battery checker, but it's not a 5V input. The checker can display PWM signals from a receiver, so I'm guessing it's used as a connector for that.
You can power the bg8s via the xt60 with a good pack and plug the balance lead of the battery under test to the balance port of the bg8s. The micro usb connector is for updating its firmware but you still have to power it via xt60 while updating.
BattGO is the Juicero of model RC. N.F.G.
i used to jump start totally flat 18650s from 0.8V. All you need is a constant current supply and put low current like 100mA and the voltage will slowly increase until it is reasonable level, you can put back onto your usual charger.
I just went through this last week with half a dozen old (but barely used) 5500mAh 3S drone batteries that I haven't touched in probably three years. Many of the cells were still around 3.5-3.8v but a couple of them had gotten so low that they weren't registering at all, like yours. Battery testers were either not showing a battery connected at all, or one cell was so low that it thought it was a 2S. Measuring individual cells, a couple of them had dropped down to a little over 1v and one had dropped down to 0.5v. I've got an Accucel 6 and an iMax B6, so just charged all the cells up to ~3.5v individually at a 100mA charge rate (increased to 500mA at 2v) and then did the standard balance charge. Then did the balance storage to bring them all down to ~3.8v per cell. Took a few days, but got there in the end. RC Model Reviews has a video on this process that he did a few years ago. We'll see what all their voltages still are in a couple of weeks. :)
very clever charging Trick... you see that happening when you have a bad diode in a circuit too. the voltage slowly rising charging up capacitors. : )
I charge low lipo's with nicad or nimh setting until it comes up enough to charge normally
I feel like I need to put a Disclaimer in here for ya Julian. This can be dangerous to do and anyone attempting it should do so at their own risk.
We do this all the time at work with old expanded lipo packs with just a variable PSU, just set the current limit to a very low limit to bring the pack or individual cells up and use a fire proof bag/ box to put the battery in while charging. Once the pack or cell is up to a level where the actual battery charger will charge it switch it over to that. I like the DMM idea for the initial charge as it's going to be a very low current output, which is probably safer than what we do. But yea do this at your own risk, take some accountability for your own actions and if you burn your house down it's your fault.
Reading the comment bellow, shocking how many people think they are battery experts, but don't know shit!
Welcome to the internet of things.
For long term storage I think you have to drop Lipo to the storage voltage - I was just looking at some Lipo chargers that discharge to the storage voltage -. As for BattGo, I don't know what you do with internal chips draining them.
in diode test mode the meter o/p 1ma and displays Vforward.
Well done, never really use then batteries, but have some.
I got one of those BattGo BMS devices...haven't found a use for it yet so still brand new & in the box.
Whats wrong with just using a current limiting power supply?
Rather than fart around with the early stages like you did, just connect the battery packs to a buck power supply with current limiting, you just need to set the battery voltage and set the current limiting to a very low level.
Rather than fart around like you and Julian did I just connect the packs directly to the mains.
Trying not to shout at the screen here - you have a charger, just use it! If it won't do lipo, then select NiMH with a few mA and watch until the cells reach about 2.8V, then select LiPo.
A good charger will recognize a low state and do all this mollycoddling for you.
All good and well, except I believe the whole point of this channel is to faff about with stuff, not have ready made solutions :-)
exactly how i do it, NiMH mode will rescue a cell :)
@@benbaselet2026 except that ready made solution is built into the charger he was using and much safer, crazy not to use it and i doubt he realized!
Indeed, faffery is my middle name. DMM faffery is essential in videos like this, and if I had a bench power supply, I'd faff with that too :)
OK, I accept that the 12V battery stuff wasn't really necessary - I can see how the NiMH setting would work :)
Really good video and battery tester are best thanks 👍
The concern iv had while doing this is charging them too fast or even too slow as apparently to low a current can cause issues internally?
Why not use your Battgo tester on the balance lead and monitor it from there and use the balance function as it’s charging
Hey Julian, hope u doing well... I did same with completely flat 18650, i.em connect to fully charged 18650 with plus to plus and minus to minus, for say 3-5 seconds, this ramped up voltage im flat cell and eventually cell was able to charge with normal charger.. though has to monitor temperature of flat cell all the way 😂😂😂
You can use the nicd NIMH Programm to bring the cells to 2.8v than you change to lipo charge program …!
TP4056 can recover single cells quite well id probably use them or at least to the point the voltage was in normal ranges , And BatGo sounds like some old womans mobility scooter , I do have a few batgo chips but i figure they were pointless if you couldn't clear all saved data on them so you could re use them on another future battery , from this vid i think it shows these batt go chips drain cells to 0v over time.
surely for a 4s pack that is completely drained, all you need is a smart charger that will put in low low current at first AND the ability to monitor cell voltages, if a cell is shorted internally, you might as well stop charge. if no cells are shorted internally, simply continue to the 4s terminate voltage and increase the charge current appropriately. i suppose the only reason the BG chargers dont achieve this is that it starts at zero volts.
A common problem. Any BMS with a cell balancing function will constantly consume current. The lithium packs are *not* meant to be stored without at least a bimonthly (every other month) charge to maintain them.
First, “batt go flat”. Charge them improperly, then “batt go fat” (they’ll swell up), then “batt go pop”! 😉
So, the ominous third wire is a data line for digital communication between charger and battery.
Roughly something like what Sony are/were doing in their InfoLithium packs for varoius ditital still&video cameras way-back-long-ago? Seems reasonable!
Julian, would you help me get a 5S 18650 cordless drill driver battery pack back to nominal voltage? It's sealed and only has three terminals, and the dedicated charger flashes the "error" LED when i put it in. Does RUclips have a PM feature? I've never thought about that, since I'm just *starting* my channel, "Markus bastelt: The Bench". (Partly German, "Markus tinkers")
EDIT: Whoops! I hadn't waited for the video to finish before i posted this. "appears to be" becomes "is".
You really need to invest in a bench PSU.
Charsoon... what an ominous name...
This is terrible advice and a dangerous video to post. When lipo batteries dropped below a certain voltage internal cell damage occurs. This internal cell damage can result in rapid catastrophic failure of the cell at any time the future without additional warning whether you're using it or not. Doing this is literally playing with fire and how people burn their houses down. There's a very good reason why the lipo charger refuses to charge the lipo blow a certain voltage.
This video is not advice, it's entertainment. My advice is pinned to the top of the comment section.
@@JulianIlett cmon. Youre smarter than that....
@@DoRC I know it might surprise you, but youtube is full with videos of people doing dangerous things. Julian knows the risks. We, the viewers, know the risks.
@@TheRadiastral you may know the risks but many do not. I have educated hundreds of people over the years on the dangers of doing this and the vast majority of them had no idea.
I don't see a problem, I just put the battery on a power supply set to the pack voltage and a current limit of 1mA. Job done. If i forget to look at it for hours there will be no problem as current will stay at 1mA and the voltage can't go higher than pack voltage
This is exactly the same as cordless tool batteries.
They make the battery protection overzealous so you'll be forced to buy new ones for no reason.
Oh man... I threw away so many old flat batteries... Should have learned this method earlier...
Do you not have a bench power supply
i charge them useing the NiCad setting for about 30 sec normaly fixes them.
On that 1300mAh pack, how many amphours do you think it took to bring the pack to 1v?
Tiny, about 0.002 Ah.
Why dont you use a descent lab-powersupply to charge the pack? You could set the amps and even watch the charging process better in detail? Dont drain another battery to charge another one :-) You are a bit over cautios - which is generally good - but i have never seen a little pack like this exploding like hell when charging that slowly! It would even be more likely for the pack not to explode even when you hit a nail through it and even fully charged! But of course - shit can happen :-)
I like how 'smart chargers' think they are so smart that they do not allow you to do stuff that dumb ones do
Charge as a NiMh to 3v per and then balance charge from there. Modern chargers will do that for you and no need for the battery game.
do you not have a cell meter for checking the cell voltages??
Yes I do - it appears later in the video :)
With questionable batteries I take the cells to 3.0 volts then disconnect them for a couple days. If a cell drops below 2 volts just sitting there I recycle it.
But if the battgo chip is what is draining it then this won’t work.
Charge from balance lead
Keep that cell monitor on it let's watch each cell voltage rise
I was doing it the opposite trying to charge a 12v gel lead acid battery but was at 6v ish using a skyrc charger say error so I grabbed a 3cell lipo charger for a reference and it's charged now lol
I dont think u need to plug in power lead when balancing!
I thought Li-po wasx lithium Polymer not Lithium ion?
Where do u get the batteries and the charger to charger them and I love videos
Everything came from Banggood :)
@@JulianIlett do you have any recommendations for the best ones I am sorry that I am asking a lot of questions
I'm not positive that a nail thru it not doing anything is true because I believe lithium is very reactive like sodium
Surely anyone having such lipos would also have something like a cheap Turnigy type balance charger. This is a lot of mucking around rather than just let a £25 charger do it with better safety?
👍
How many power supplies do you have with constant current functionality?
Next time, hook it up to a power supply and set the current to 50mA and the voltage to 3.9V times the number of cells.
Then come back in a day and it will be charged to 3.9V. You'll lose 200mA in a regular 2200mA 18650 cell, so 10%, but the long term storage on Lion is 3.7V.
I don't know about these dumb "Smart" packs, that are stupid enough to run the pack flat.
Their was an ad in your video about a ultra low voltage segmented display being powered by a lemon,is that real
You can buy an LCD digital clock kit that will run off a lemon for ages... If that's what it was, it's real. But unless that's what they were advertising, the ad itself might be a scam still. Look on eBay for lemon/potato clock kits if you want one.
It's real. The Signal Path did a review on these displays.
Multimeter was never designed to charge batteries... The step down dc-dc with Cc Cv feature is so cheap and will allow limiting both current and voltage as needed.
They dont have undervoltage protection?
Obviously not.
No, Rc packs dont have protection, they need to deliver massive currents, way more than a protection board that would fit/wouldn't be prohibitively heavy could handle.
@@stevefox3763 Also the people using them almost always know how to use them.
I have a 12S 25Ah pack still going strong after 6 years without using a bms. I just balance charge at 20A and keep within 80-20% SoC.
@@ahaveland Bloody hell a 12s 25,000 pack, what are you running, an RC tank pmsl. The biggest i have is 6s 8100mah in a 1/4 scale diy pickup truck and plan to increase capacity but upping the voltage will require a new controller and either over volting the motor or changing it but i have no plans too as i converted to electric because the 50cc engine was grossly over powered for the weight!
@LabRat Knatz I think something else is wrong here though, some flaw in the battgo circuitry, no normal loose pack will discharge down to close to 0V in a few years. Interesting about the laptop though..
Why not just use a bench power supply?
Bench power supply or lab power supply? Which should I use? I'm getting conflicting advice!
Hmm use an ImaX B6, ???
Imax B6? Perhaps I should also drive a model T Ford and use a candlestick telephone ;)
@@JulianIlett I thought you did?? ;-)
Why are these batteries at zero volts?
Aren't these the same type of cells used in all those Laptop and Cell Phone fire/explosions I've seen so many videos of? Just when you think you have cheated the Devil......
Hello Julian, I recently watched one of your Parkside battery videos and wanted to let you know they currently have a torch in store that uses the 20v battery range. And wondered if you would do a video on its internals?
I have bought one and would be interested to know what it has inside, as I would like to modify mine with a better and brighter Cree LED. Just from simple voltage testing it converts the 20v to around 2.95v for it's current Cree LED.
I've been waiting for a Parkside worklight. I'll be visiting lidl tomorrow. Thanks :)
@@JulianIlett I also bought their new 20v cordless solding station for £11.99 and am very happy with it.
You need to find a use for all these lipo's. shame not to use them for something.
I just connected the TS80 soldering iron to the QC USB output on the BG-8S. It works well for Lipo-powered off-grid soldering.
Recharging completely flat LiPo,'s
DON'T unless you want to burn down your house, they can and will violently burn without notice.
Scientific, anecdotal or made up evidence?
I have a flat full of over 1000 of them and a basement with 3000 more cells for the last 6 years. No problems at all.
Stop your fear mongering. If you charge them at 0.1A, until they reach 3.0V, then up the current to 1-2Amps, nothing will explode or catch on fire.
If you start pumping current into it when flat, you'll need a good fire and medical insurance.
LiPo is no lithium ion... But lithium polymer buddy
Yes it is, its lithium ion polymer to be more specific, its the same chemistry as a 'lithium ion', just uses a polymer electrolyte instead of a liquid one, the two cells do have different discharge ability's because of this but both are the same lithium ion chemistry.
@@stevefox3763 There is a lot of confusion among the muggles here, and there's a huge variation of electrode and electrolyte chemistries and combinations even within cells identified as Lithium Ion, but NMC, LiCo₂ etc basically share similar voltage ranges. Above 4.2V the electrolytes start to break down and release gas, and this is easier to happen in a lipo than a metal can because it has a lower tolerance to pressure which can help to preserve the cells a little longer.
If a battery was working hard when it was overdischarged the first cell in the pack to discharge will be reverse biased and may become lithium plated and ruined.
In this case I have been known to remove it from a 6S and make a 5S from the remaining cells! :-)
LiFePO₄ and Lithium Titanate are also "lithium ion", but have very different voltage ranges and capacities, which is why they have different settings on chargers.