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I recently got to open a pack of Tempest and cracked a Wasteland, which I was surprised to learn is only $30. Got my Tempest Uncommon busted lands mixed up in the moment. :)
37:50 Bryant and Phil obviously don’t know about Premodern. Shout out to former world champion Brian Selden, reigning North American Premodern champion.
Regarding Ancient Tomb: It is almost $100 and has been going up more and more as time has gone on. It doesn't see enough meaningful reprints to lower the cost when it is used so widely.
@nathannjh My statement was more to the point of understating their understanding of prices and how much it actually affects people getting into the format. Though they do play paper magic, their content is mostly MTGO based and I feel like they have fallen a bit out of reality with how inaccessible Legacy has become.
@@aeolus7762 you still didn't listen. In the video, Brian is saying he is happy that cheap cards got banned and not expensive cards, like Ancient tomb. The argument stands as long as you both agree X card is expensive. The actual number is meaningless. What you're saying about the price of ancient tomb not being 30 dollars is true, but irrelevant to the conversion at hand. I'm glad Brain didn't waste my time to go look up the actual price of a card to make his point.
The issue with replacing Frog in UB reanimator is that the blue count becomes low if you don't replace it with a blue card. I think the deck is still really good, I ran a league with it the other day and smashed people up good, lost to a UB reanimator mirror where my opponent went more into the combo with Careful Study and more monsters.
It's very frustrating that people talk about having Entomb/Reanimate banned because in my mind, Legacy is not only the place where you go to play powerful cards, it's one of the places you go to play OLD powerful cards. The objectively coolest cards in magics history are mainly old bordered. Why should we give up what makes our format more unique than most other formats to make room for all this "fire design" nonsense? I love Legacy. I want Legacy to keep its identity instead of being homogonized into Commander: The Gathering like it's already become.
What you guys were saying echoes a bit of something SaffronOlive said in a video shortly before the update. When it comes to the frequency of bans, a return to "ban as needed" or making announcements more frequently won't matter at all if WotC aren't willing to leverage those tools effectively. The point he was making is that, even if we had an announcement every week, WotC has a very long, very well documented history of letting their formats rot for months before taking action. Even if they had the chances to make changes, they very regularly let those chances pass them by. Said differently, the problem isn't the frequency of announcements. It's the methodology behind them, and the unwillingness to take action unless it is beyond obvious it is necessary. Now, I used to believe that this was WotC seeing the boogieman, being afraid of banning the wrong thing and causing a backlash that mostly doesn't exist. However, since the Commander bannings and the bombshells worth of backlash over removing cards that are, without any possible counterargument, miserable and too powerful for the format, I see WotC hesitation much better. It makes more sense, at least in my mind. I still, personally, think that failing to take an action is still making a decision. Failing to ban some people's egregiously overpowered toy is effectively deciding to ban everybody else's toy. But hey, I'm a guy who thinks banning a card that's a superior Mox in the context of commander would lead to better gameplay, so what do I know?
Command is stupid in general, not just legacy. It’s one thing for Tron or Eldrazi to have but draws that just go over the top of everything. It’s another thing for it to also have the ability to ramp from 7 to 12 while digging for even more insane threats on turn 4 and creating a wall of blockers, as the FLOOR.
I’ve been saying it since before grief was banned. I still believe eye of ugin is the problem card in eldrazi. It’s was consistently makes turn 2 mycospawn with yavimaya. Eye of ugin with almost any land can make 2 glaring fleshraker. I think eye of ugin is what gives the deck its super quick starts. Pair that with Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Eldrazi Temple. The deck essentially has 16 2 mana producing lands.
it really puts into perspective just how forced the power level of modern horizons is when it not only warps its target format, mordern, but also warps formats like legacy.
Cool listen, thanks for the show 😀 Forgive my ignorance I only play edh but has wotc ever unbanned a pricy RL card like Earthcraft? Seems like something that they might shy away from.
@@michaelfautt7788sure but that was likely really cheap back then. My GMono was sub 40 and that wasn't even 10 years ago. So wotc likely would see those numbers differently than earthcraft sitting at 150ish today.
Agreed. If people can be ok with banning a dozen cards to maintain Tempo decks' power level, then the same can be applied to Reanimator. Just hit Atraxa to force the Reanimator CA engines to be soft to life total pressure again and see where it shakes out.
Any card can be banned, but to argue that entomb or reanimate are what was unfair when it was obviously the new cards that made the overall deck play patterns egregious is a tired argument.
@@TheUrDragon25 Phyrexian dreadnought might be the only card which is affected by premodern in terms of price, but the supply is just so low that it should have an impact.
I’m glad to see Frog and Bauble go, but I’m also glad to see nothing else banned. I love legacy, but between work and a young child I don’t get to play as much as I would like. I’m sure things get boring for the daily gamers, but i enjoy feeling like i can leave the format and return in a month or two without having to react to drastic changes.
seems kinda weird imo locking the biggest change to the modern ban list behind patreon, like I get it you need to sustain yourselves, but that seems kinda important, and not like your usual banter you have in the pre-show.
We are a Legacy podcast and provided an hour of free Legacy content, as we always do. The modern conversation could happen in the pre-show, or not at all. Unless you expect us to do more work for free? Or release it all and not give our existing paying customers the extra content they pay for? If I complain on the internet will you work an extra hour at your job tomorrow for no pay? Shout out to our pile of new patrons from this episode though, thanks for keeping the show on the air. Real MVPs.
Green creature midrange decks are dead in this format, to be fair this has been the case for a while. Very excited that they will make a comeback in modern. I think legacy’s power level is too much and too fast for midrange decks and control decks. Combo control and creature combo decks are what the former decks have had to evolve into to keep up. Tin foil hat time… I could see an argument that wotc has purposely given legacy the cold shoulder as it is no longer part of competitive scene in professional mtg anymore. Mostly because the barrier to entry is just too high to put it in their sanctioned events. Also they can’t make good profit from legacy. So giving legacy the cold shoulder and making unbearable metas pushes people into other formats that benefit them. I only make this argument due to their stark differences in management of legacy vs modern. All I have heard from everyone and feel the exact same myself is that modern is where I want to be playing right now. They went wild with modern to get us to play, the exact opposite was done for legacy. As a maverick andd midrange player myself, I’m going to stop playing legacy and play modern where I can play my type of decks competitively. To be clear I didn’t leave legacy… legacy left me. Unban DRS!!!
Tamiyo is guna replace frog. That card is miserable. If free counter magic like FoW and daze are what holds legacy together then why not print them in every color. Wotc is basically saying you have to splash blue to play legacy. That doesn't sound like a healthy format to me. No one wants delver running all over legacy again. That was miserable.
The thing is that Legacy isn't supposed to be "healthy", it's full of degenerate cards that keep each other in check. Force of will, and blue as a color, is powerful, but decks like red stompy can keep THAT in check. There will always be a best deck. And frankly, if I could pick one deck to always be the best in legacy it would be delver! Yeah, EI delver was rough, I'm not calling for that, but delver as a top deck I think makes for a good format. A legacy deck should be able to play against delver well. Legacy doesn't need to be healthy to be balanced or fun.
Blue decks keep Legacy in check. Unless you only want to play fast degenerate combo, you need Blue to be viable so you can build decks that beat Blue. I'm sorry you don't want to learn how to beat counterspell decks.
We figured it out but grief got banned to beat FREE counters. Now vexing bauble got banned cuz you can't counter spells for FREE. The only way to be competitive in legacy is FoW. Thoughtseize or unmask is a joke compared to FoW, daze, brainstorm or ponder.
This is literally the ban update episode recorded the night the bans were announced. It is the topic in the title. It is the primary subject in the entire community right now. Have a nice life though, I hope you cure cancer with this extra hour every 2 weeks.
◉ Access our Supporter Exclusive episode through Patreon: patreon.com/EternalGlory
◉ Access our Supporter Exclusive episode through a RUclips Membership: www.youtube.com/@theeternalglorypodcast/join
► Use code ETERNALGLORY for FREE worldwide shipping on orders $500 or more at shop.threeforonetrading.com
► Need a lawyer? Connect with a fellow eternal gamer - Jonathan Sparks. Reach out via email to jsparks@SparksLawPractice.com or call 470-268-5234
Wherever Brian is getting $30 Ancient Tomb’s, I am shopping there from now on.
All 3 are out of touch sometimes.
they must be buying gold bordered ones 🤣
@@NickAlsup it happens to me when i see the price of a card if owned for 10+ years.
30, 70, same thing!
I recently got to open a pack of Tempest and cracked a Wasteland, which I was surprised to learn is only $30. Got my Tempest Uncommon busted lands mixed up in the moment. :)
37:50 Bryant and Phil obviously don’t know about Premodern. Shout out to former world champion Brian Selden, reigning North American Premodern champion.
Regarding Ancient Tomb: It is almost $100 and has been going up more and more as time has gone on. It doesn't see enough meaningful reprints to lower the cost when it is used so widely.
The point still stands. He was stating that the card is expensive and didn't want to go look up the exact number. This comment is not constructive.
@nathannjh My statement was more to the point of understating their understanding of prices and how much it actually affects people getting into the format. Though they do play paper magic, their content is mostly MTGO based and I feel like they have fallen a bit out of reality with how inaccessible Legacy has become.
@@aeolus7762 you still didn't listen. In the video, Brian is saying he is happy that cheap cards got banned and not expensive cards, like Ancient tomb. The argument stands as long as you both agree X card is expensive. The actual number is meaningless.
What you're saying about the price of ancient tomb not being 30 dollars is true, but irrelevant to the conversion at hand. I'm glad Brain didn't waste my time to go look up the actual price of a card to make his point.
The issue with replacing Frog in UB reanimator is that the blue count becomes low if you don't replace it with a blue card. I think the deck is still really good, I ran a league with it the other day and smashed people up good, lost to a UB reanimator mirror where my opponent went more into the combo with Careful Study and more monsters.
The only 30 dollar Ancient Tomb is a gold bordered one. More like 70-80 lol
It's very frustrating that people talk about having Entomb/Reanimate banned because in my mind, Legacy is not only the place where you go to play powerful cards, it's one of the places you go to play OLD powerful cards. The objectively coolest cards in magics history are mainly old bordered. Why should we give up what makes our format more unique than most other formats to make room for all this "fire design" nonsense? I love Legacy. I want Legacy to keep its identity instead of being homogonized into Commander: The Gathering like it's already become.
"Light touches" should be every 45 days.
What you guys were saying echoes a bit of something SaffronOlive said in a video shortly before the update. When it comes to the frequency of bans, a return to "ban as needed" or making announcements more frequently won't matter at all if WotC aren't willing to leverage those tools effectively. The point he was making is that, even if we had an announcement every week, WotC has a very long, very well documented history of letting their formats rot for months before taking action. Even if they had the chances to make changes, they very regularly let those chances pass them by.
Said differently, the problem isn't the frequency of announcements. It's the methodology behind them, and the unwillingness to take action unless it is beyond obvious it is necessary.
Now, I used to believe that this was WotC seeing the boogieman, being afraid of banning the wrong thing and causing a backlash that mostly doesn't exist. However, since the Commander bannings and the bombshells worth of backlash over removing cards that are, without any possible counterargument, miserable and too powerful for the format, I see WotC hesitation much better. It makes more sense, at least in my mind.
I still, personally, think that failing to take an action is still making a decision. Failing to ban some people's egregiously overpowered toy is effectively deciding to ban everybody else's toy. But hey, I'm a guy who thinks banning a card that's a superior Mox in the context of commander would lead to better gameplay, so what do I know?
Magic as a collectible commodity is the enemy of Magic as a game.
Good talk. Cheers!
I’m mostly happy with the bans and such in Modern, but saying that its power got lowered is kind of wild given they unbanned Opal and Looting.
nice update, everyone had good takes today. I think i agreed with pretty much everything... which is rare.. :D
Command is stupid in general, not just legacy. It’s one thing for Tron or Eldrazi to have but draws that just go over the top of everything. It’s another thing for it to also have the ability to ramp from 7 to 12 while digging for even more insane threats on turn 4 and creating a wall of blockers, as the FLOOR.
I’ve been saying it since before grief was banned. I still believe eye of ugin is the problem card in eldrazi. It’s was consistently makes turn 2 mycospawn with yavimaya. Eye of ugin with almost any land can make 2 glaring fleshraker. I think eye of ugin is what gives the deck its super quick starts. Pair that with Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Eldrazi Temple. The deck essentially has 16 2 mana producing lands.
48:34 Worldly Tutor
it really puts into perspective just how forced the power level of modern horizons is when it not only warps its target format, mordern, but also warps formats like legacy.
Agreed I wish they did more like they did in modern, but still happy to be rid of frog and bauble regardless
Eldrazi winter 2, electric boogaloo
Cool listen, thanks for the show 😀
Forgive my ignorance I only play edh but has wotc ever unbanned a pricy RL card like Earthcraft? Seems like something that they might shy away from.
Yea, I believe Bryant mentioned that Grim Monolith was banned at some point.
@@michaelfautt7788sure but that was likely really cheap back then. My GMono was sub 40 and that wasn't even 10 years ago. So wotc likely would see those numbers differently than earthcraft sitting at 150ish today.
How do you convert play points into tickets to actually make money on mtgo? How do you convert anything on mtgo into actual money?
Play points win treasure chests, treasure chests sell for event tickets, event tickets sell for real money.
It’s so tiresome to hear ban reanimate or entomb. It’s been around for a while and psychic frog was what made it broken. This was a good ban decision.
Entomb was banned in Legacy so calling for it to be rebanned isn't that wild.
it would be wrond to not discuss 2 of the most overpowered cards in the format, no matter if they end up banned or not.
@@Totescolinwhen it was in a meta with mystic tutor. lol
Agreed. If people can be ok with banning a dozen cards to maintain Tempo decks' power level, then the same can be applied to Reanimator. Just hit Atraxa to force the Reanimator CA engines to be soft to life total pressure again and see where it shakes out.
Any card can be banned, but to argue that entomb or reanimate are what was unfair when it was obviously the new cards that made the overall deck play patterns egregious is a tired argument.
Phyrexian Dreadnought is expensive because it's the best deck in Premodern.
Do enough people play that format for it to be affecting the price in a meaningful way?
@@TheUrDragon25 Phyrexian dreadnought might be the only card which is affected by premodern in terms of price, but the supply is just so low that it should have an impact.
Happy i got mine for 75$ a pop for a deal
I’m glad to see Frog and Bauble go, but I’m also glad to see nothing else banned. I love legacy, but between work and a young child I don’t get to play as much as I would like. I’m sure things get boring for the daily gamers, but i enjoy feeling like i can leave the format and return in a month or two without having to react to drastic changes.
seems kinda weird imo locking the biggest change to the modern ban list behind patreon, like I get it you need to sustain yourselves, but that seems kinda important, and not like your usual banter you have in the pre-show.
We are a Legacy podcast and provided an hour of free Legacy content, as we always do. The modern conversation could happen in the pre-show, or not at all. Unless you expect us to do more work for free? Or release it all and not give our existing paying customers the extra content they pay for? If I complain on the internet will you work an extra hour at your job tomorrow for no pay?
Shout out to our pile of new patrons from this episode though, thanks for keeping the show on the air. Real MVPs.
Green creature midrange decks are dead in this format, to be fair this has been the case for a while. Very excited that they will make a comeback in modern. I think legacy’s power level is too much and too fast for midrange decks and control decks. Combo control and creature combo decks are what the former decks have had to evolve into to keep up. Tin foil hat time… I could see an argument that wotc has purposely given legacy the cold shoulder as it is no longer part of competitive scene in professional mtg anymore. Mostly because the barrier to entry is just too high to put it in their sanctioned events. Also they can’t make good profit from legacy. So giving legacy the cold shoulder and making unbearable metas pushes people into other formats that benefit them. I only make this argument due to their stark differences in management of legacy vs modern. All I have heard from everyone and feel the exact same myself is that modern is where I want to be playing right now. They went wild with modern to get us to play, the exact opposite was done for legacy. As a maverick andd midrange player myself, I’m going to stop playing legacy and play modern where I can play my type of decks competitively. To be clear I didn’t leave legacy… legacy left me. Unban DRS!!!
Tamiyo is guna replace frog. That card is miserable. If free counter magic like FoW and daze are what holds legacy together then why not print them in every color. Wotc is basically saying you have to splash blue to play legacy. That doesn't sound like a healthy format to me. No one wants delver running all over legacy again. That was miserable.
Blue is the best color in Magic love it or leave it 🤷🏻♂️
The thing is that Legacy isn't supposed to be "healthy", it's full of degenerate cards that keep each other in check. Force of will, and blue as a color, is powerful, but decks like red stompy can keep THAT in check.
There will always be a best deck. And frankly, if I could pick one deck to always be the best in legacy it would be delver! Yeah, EI delver was rough, I'm not calling for that, but delver as a top deck I think makes for a good format. A legacy deck should be able to play against delver well.
Legacy doesn't need to be healthy to be balanced or fun.
Blue decks keep Legacy in check. Unless you only want to play fast degenerate combo, you need Blue to be viable so you can build decks that beat Blue. I'm sorry you don't want to learn how to beat counterspell decks.
We figured it out but grief got banned to beat FREE counters. Now vexing bauble got banned cuz you can't counter spells for FREE. The only way to be competitive in legacy is FoW. Thoughtseize or unmask is a joke compared to FoW, daze, brainstorm or ponder.
banbanbanbanban. this product is not for me. sorry guys, im leaving.
This is literally the ban update episode recorded the night the bans were announced. It is the topic in the title. It is the primary subject in the entire community right now. Have a nice life though, I hope you cure cancer with this extra hour every 2 weeks.