This Scene In HBO's The Last Of Us Makes Me Nervous.
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2023
- patreon.com/dandestefano
Joel's characterization in the game is the CRUX of why it's so good. So... why did they change it for the new series on HBO? I hope I'm wrong, but this scene made me almost positive that the show is gonna be a shell of the game. 
Игры
The creators are being smarter with the violence. Instead of Joel killing a random soldier they showed how he knows the soldier and worked with him making the scene even more impactful than emotionless killing which happens so much in the game.
In the game it’s calculated necessary violence, in this it’s purely emotional. He could have killed him seen that it’s the soldier he knew then had to hold back his emotion, or gotten him trapped then had to make a hard choice, all better choices than Joel just stands there looking confused imo.
@@itsdanielpaul What’s wrong with purely emotional? The whole point of the show is to fully flesh out characters and scenes adding more emotional impact that wasn’t capable in the game. Not to mention in the game there were multiple soldiers while in the show it’s one who he knows.
the point of the game was how devoid of life Joel was in the beginning before he grew closer with Ellie and found her as part of his family. Show!Joel is way too empathic and soft, IMO. he didn't immediately kill that soldier/dealer guy, he didn't really come off as a threat when he saw marlene, still very close with Tommy, and etc.
@@_M41KU_ nothing is wrong with that!! but what made the story great was how natural the progression was. from being a hardened person to someone who would do anything to protect his family.
@@krack-a-lacker Joel was never devoid of emotion, he can only regain his humanity at the end of the story if he has any humanity to recover, a raging murderer psychopath that kills anything in the way just isn't who he is at his core, I mean, in the game, there are so many scenes where he's talking and puts his hand on his watch or looks at it, so he obviously is still with that trauma and has that "soft" side. Joel's whole thing is that he just does what he has to to survive ("no matter what, you keep finding something to fight for"), and while they did hint that Joel and Tommy fought like in the game, it wouldn't make sense for Joel to just not care about his only family and tie to his old life. It also wouldn't make sense for Joel to just kill the guard without hesitation because they knew each other, and because he was held at gunpoint (he attacked as soon as the guard started approaching and there was an opening), the only example I remember of Joel killing someone he knows in the game is Marlene at the end, and he only does that cause he believes it's to protect Ellie. One last thing, why should Joel come off as a threat to Marlene there? They know each other and weren't even fighting or anything, they were just discussing what was going on.
This video is just: Joel should’ve been stupid and ruthless for no reason and openly shoot and alert guards
I want aggressive but smart joel. So far so good but I hope we see him fight multiple ppl
@@nivaneh1010 exactly, he isnt dumb, he knows if he shot instanly then its game over. im hoping when we get to pitsburg the show truely shows the violence that joel can do! His ruthlessness coming out once they are ambushed
@@JO3yr2004 on god I wanna see him box niggas up and combo them like he does in the game
Joel also yelled at him before being really noisy by beating the dude. Smart.
The only reason why game Joel shot in the first place is because Ellie stabbed one of them in the leg, and knowing that they would retaliate and execute all of them, he shot them. They knew that more would be coming, hence why they they left in such a hurry without discussing Ellies bite, but the pros of shooting them outweighed the cons.
You're too exaggerated man that scene is so good than your complaints. When they bring up joel's past memories when some random soldier shot them resulting from the death of his daughter sarah, that reminisce of his past triggers him and made him killed that soldier and save both tess and ellie without hesitation.
"He wasn't ruthless enough"
Joel on HBO: punches the skull in of a man he knows with his bare fists until they're dripping with blood.
I think at worst, it was the writer (who is still Neil) wanted to reiterate the moment from the bridge in 2003.
On HBO, that moment happened less than 40 minutes ago.
In the game, this moment happens potentially a few hours earlier in the player's time.
I did read somewhere that they wanted to make Joel less "op" in the HBO show than he is in the game. Despite that, they did keep mentioning about "what Joel is capable of", like he's some sort of John Wick of their world.
Players of the game know this, but I think we're slowly being introduced to his inner brutality in the show. This is the first non-infected person we see Joel ruin in the show. And its the brutality to the non-infected where The Last of US both part 1 and 2 really hit home.
I also think Neil could be taking the criticism from his games of "Narrative dissonance" to heart. This was a big issue in both games, especially P2, where the value of life is treated differently in the cutscenes vs gameplay. Due to that, I think he might be trying to tone back a little: he gave that guard a small backstory in the show, instead of it being a literally faceless trooper in the game. Killing carries weight to these characters. It can't be mindless, otherwise it undermines the main theme of the story.
if they had an action scene before that violent outburst of PTSD it would've taken away from that moment.
It was more ruthless and impactful because it was the first bit of action we saw,, also punching him repeatedly to death was way more brutal than shooting him
(also shooting him like you said would've been stupid, its unnecessary and would've alerted all the guards)
Yup
Watch the scene again because joel was very noisy in his outburst. The scene doesnt make sence at all and changes a lot the character from the games.
@@straycat2550 i think a shot from a gun would be way louder than grunting. Especially in the rain
@@SinisterGreed19 Exactly what I was going to say, the rain really obscures sounds
@@straycat2550 him grunting in ptsd outburst isn’t as loud as a gunshot for no reason, when Joel has to kill, he kills..
I don’t get the complaint, if anything this scene was improved in the show. Because now there’s more emotional impact, and if anything makes Joel more ruthless. He beat a man that he knew and worked with, to death with his bare hands right in front of Ellie as she watched, knowing he’s doing that because of her. I think that’s much more impactful for the characters and the audience
Agree, plus even if it's a "valid complaint" I don't understand why it would be a big Problem... I like having differences between the show and the game to make it worth watching. People just always want to complain huh?
"It's doomed. It's dooomed" man. What a drama queen lmao
The killing in the game is always just going to be motivated by whatever the player chooses it to be. In my version, Joel is a murderous psychopath who loves killing because I love the gameplay and kill everything. I understand for the TV show that they have to be much more specific with the characterization of the all of the characters and I appreciate that they are much more explicit with the PTSD that Joel suffers from Sarah's death, especially given how important PTSD is in the overall narrative once you include Part 2
You’re 100% right, in the game bits of the player are displayed on Joel while in the show he is his own person.
Your a savage. Me too hehe I blast it all!
"Joel should be ruthless and pragmatic and fire off an unsuppressed shot within eyesight of the wall, alerting not only the whole of Boston to what they're doing, but also giving away the location of the tunnel they used to escape and potentially burning a valuable resource because "muh gamez"
Come off it.
I think you would be right, but he knows the guard. The guard is corrupt and he might be able to talk his way out of it. I think killing him is a little more ruthless because they have some sort of relationship
Alright you might be looking a little too deep into it, and bro you said it was an opportunity to show how ruthless he is and they failed? he literally tackled the guy and beat him TOO DEATH with his bare hands and once he decided to do it he did it without hesitation, it’s the first episode man just wait till the seasons over at least, they did that flashback scene because it’s more dramatic for the audience, they did a very good job at showing that Joel is indeed a ruthless brutal killer, lol just because he tried to talk to the guy first doesn’t mean there softening him up, he fucking tackled him like a rabid dog and beat him into a bloody oblivion, he basically Lucilled him with his right hand and did it like a fucking berserker, imo they did good, and so far this is a masterpiece of an adaptation. We will see what they did in season 2 I hope they don’t adapt the crap that was part 2 and create there own material, lol you wanna talk about messing up Joel as a character lol now there’s one for ya, Joel the badass zombie survivor of 24 years just telling strangers his real name off rip lol just one of the many many flaws that piece of shit game has
Right and I’m afraid they’re softening Joel into someone who waits for a guard to shoot him instead of taking him down right away is the first step to making him into the guy who he became in the last of us 2
@Dan DeStefano "turning into the character he was in the Last of Us 2" tells me everything I need to know about your taste and judgment.
Yeah someone who’s not ruthless and careful, like OP said, game Joel wouldn’t be so trusting and careless to just tell the new people his name as he did in Last of Us 2. The Joel they presented us with here, instead of doing the harsh but smart thing and at least capturing the guard as he stood there without his gun, is the same Joel who would just give away his name to strangers.
@@fabianblanchette9904 yea the hate makes sense now
@@fabianblanchette9904 Right? lol I'll never understand these people
Firstly, there were many guards patrolling nearby if he shoots at the soldier they would all be alerted so he had to take him silently. Secondly, he knows the guy from the QZ, he thought he would just let them through because they know each other, even in the first game they were playing it cool until Ellie stabs the guy. It isn´t smart to just shoot a guy you know, alerting the entire QZ squad on patrol and getting yourself killed. It all happened in a matter of seconds too if he made one wrong move the guy would have blasted him
if you pressed play, he made a point WHY it felt wrong. joel was hardened by his loss of sara AND the apocalypse so taking out a guy who so clearly has intent to kill him and his friend, Tess, then he will switch on survival mode and take the threats out. it really doesn't make sense why joel wouldn't take out one dude as soon as he posed as a threat. again, i guess i can understand it for the sake of the narrative. to reach out to the viewers and show us that joel is still shaken by sarah's death. in the end, though, it felt like it'll lessen the impact of joel and ellie's relationship later on.
@@krack-a-lacker wow people really reaching for a reason to hate Lmfao children
@@krack-a-lacker Bro the more you write the less it makes sense, Joel CONSTANTLY looks and messes with his broken watch in the game, he is and always will be shaken by his daughter's death, how is that not obvious to anyone, I genuinely don't get it, Joel's relationship with Ellie is impactful BECAUSE of that. Go back to the circus man, tv critic is not the job for you 🤡
@@krack-a-lacker the guy was taking a piss and knew Joel he had no intent on killing him or Tess because they were clean. Only Ellie's life ran any danger and as soon as she stabs him Joel beats him to death so he switched up really fast for a girl he doesn't even know, exactly like in the game. Dude, it's literally one scene that isn't even that impactful for Joel and Ellie's relationship so of course it won't lessen their relationship at all, because in the end it happens almost exactly as it did in the game. This is just nitpicking for the sake of it and it's just trying to find a reason why to hate on the show. The problem is you choose a really dumb one.
Nah, you're wrong. Thanks for the video though.
Man what pissed me off way more then this is Ellie’s reveal that she’s immune ! It was so rushed ! That was something that needed to breathe a little ! I have no idea why they didn’t handle that exact scene like they did in the game
He knows the guard though. That's the guard that he was talking to back at the QZ. He had a reasonable expectation that he would let them go. If anything, killing someone he knows in a brutal manner shows how hardened he's gotten.
I completely agree. In the beginning of the second game, he becomes accustomed to Jackson and he's softer than he was in the first game. It feels like he's already at that point in the very first episode, like the entire arc of the first game has been completed.
"Moviefied it" is not even a term used in the entertainment industry, lol. I thought your issue was going to be with the editing and creative choice of including the ACTUAL flashback. I thought the light in his face and Pascal's acting was enough to bring us back to that scene instead of shoehorning a flash back of a moment that had just happened in the episode, but I also understand that the showrunners know audience members don't always catch nuance. With that said, that's the ONLY issue I had with the show. Your issue on the other hand is just fan fiction, the same bullshit issue some had with Part 2. "Joel would never do X and X...reeeee". While also conveniently omitting that Joel knew that guard having done a drug deal with him earlier. And that he had all the reason to offer the guard an incentive. Its also why the guard didn't just shoot Joel. Your issue doesn't hold water.
I think you’re 100% wrong. He was a fair distance away, right as the two noticed each other. The smart decision was to be hesitant to see if this “friend” would just let them go. If he had charged, at the initial distance, he would’ve definitely been shot.
I wanted so much to be as happy with the show as everybody else seemed to be. I just can't be though. There's too many small problems that can balloon into massive issues.
I love the games, but I agree. There's some serious issues in this first episode.
Its not a big deal. I think Pedro Pascuals Joel is going to be more sensitive. I just hope its for the better.
that was the rogue guard though so Joel wouldn't want to kill him instantly
the guard was like a friend for him bro
I see your concerns, but I think he wasn’t acting that far out of character- keeping the guard alive and compliant works best bc there no body to trace and he knows he has the guy in his pocket. Killing him leaves his body and draws attention.
1) This scene explores his PTSD, which the game didn't do.
2) It's actually more brutal because he knew the guy, and made deals with him. The soldier also gave him information prior. There was the chance he could've talked his way out of the situation, especially since he was his dealer.
3) Why shoot and draw more attention? What he did, catching the soldier off guard was the smarter choice.
4) The violence will be more calculated in this first season. More savage violence will be kept for the next season.
I believe they will show his ruthlessness later. Games can dive right into the blood and gore, unlike tv shows where they try to ease us in. I have high hopes for this and I think they did it right for the first episode.
This is overly dramatic and way too nitpicky. "Oh no, Joel is calculated and smart at the beginning of his journey instead of a blood thirsty rutheless killer, the horror"
Joel should have just, no hesitation, ran at the guard and got shot multiple times, that's what MY Joel would do. /s
Honestly, after reading his other responses to comments I just can't take this guy seriously anymore lol
Neil was on board, so I am
Thank you!!! You just earned a sub my guy.
Joel doesn't walk down the street killing guards in the game you don't kill anyone till you leave the town and also you don't kill your customers
Did you not watch the 10 seconds that happened after?
Dude… The show establishes that this guard knows Joel personally. Your complaint has ZERO merit. He’s trying to calm down someone who already knows him.
If you wanna complain about something, the reveal that Ellie is immune, just 10 seconds after this scene, that was rushed and not at all explained properly.
Yeah I'm kinda hoping we get more on that reveal at the start of the next episode
This is a bad take the guard shoots first in the game that's the only reason he decided to shoot because the guards were going to be alerted anyways plus he beat a man to death punching him repeatedly way more brutal than shooting someone
In today's video, how can I be different?
Hardened Joel is shown when he throws a kids body into a burning pit with no emotion. It's shown when he points a gun at Ellie with no hesitation the first time they meet, yeah she swung at him with her knife, but she's hardly a teenager. Then we move on to the guard, Joel and Tess try to talk it out with the guard so there isn't any gunfire or call for backup. Ellie then escalates because she knows she's going to come up positive. Then Joel's PTSD appears. He couldn't save his daughter and I'm sure thoughts of "I didn't do enough to save her" creep in. Now with a girl around the age of his daughter in his care being directly threatened by this guard he becomes ruthless, but with a purpose. You see the hardened an ruthless Joel throughout the twenty years later portion through his dialogue and body manner. Dudes pissed all the time because he has no reason not to be. As we see through the game, and now the beginning of the show, Ellie is what will give him true purpose again behind all his actions besides just survival.
The sow just feels like the skipped the game play scenes instead of the opposite when they skip the theatrical scenes in the games yea it’s gonna be a tough serious I no it
He flashed back because he's with a girl that reminds him of his daughter... and the guard ends up being his 'friend'. that's all. Probably the first time this has happened since the original incident since they "don't traffic people".
They’re sneaking out so why would Joel shoot the guard?
I think there will be an arch this time, instead of the game
Ellie's bite reveal was also incredibly forced, it's clear in the game that they didn't have the option to discuss what to do with Ellie because more guards showed up and they needed to run, this idea was conveyed without dialogue. However, the show clearly has the common TV issue of telling rather than showing, because Ellie just yells out these things. Everything else in the show has been great, but someone of the writing has me worried for the future episodes.
It’s because he didn’t get immediately hit in his head???
I don't agree, I think the only missed opportunity was showing Tess kill Robert and Joel holding down Robert before they execute him.
In the game they killed them BECAUSE of the opening that Ellie creates and because they don't have another choice in that moment. It's not like they would havej ust killed them either way which you just presume for some reason based on later events taht have nothing to do with the earlier events.
They didn't have the distance closed with the guard that raised his gun, there's also other guards nearby, so of course Joel wouldn't just shoot the guard like a moron to alert all the others. Look at how it happened now, not shots fired, just a brawl and the guards nearby picked up on it anyway...
I'm sorry, but your reasoning on this I personally find nonsense. You're basically asking: "Why is Joel not being an idiot and doesn't he just shoot and alert everyone because I want him to be ruthless no matter what?"
And to then say based on ONE scene and your subjective opinion that the show is doomed?
Sorry, but you're just looking for a reason to trash it and give up on it. And if you just admit that honestly, that's fine, that's your loss, but don't put that on the show.
flawless and logical explanation! ty
some people can't sit back and enjoy anything
I thought the same thing with the change of objective to search for Robert and the death of Robert. In the game it is much more brutal and cold, showing Joel and Tess used to killing as part of everyday life. I also think that the dialogues that are taken directly from the game are very rushed, like the scene where they discover the bite for example. and other minor things like strange cuts in the editing when they are in the car, the structure they took to reintroduce joel in the future, I think they put a lot of emphasis on sarah, while in the game it is not mentioned until they see tommy , before that there are only subtle reactions to the clock.
They’re not showing that much brutality because they want it to pop out even more when it is shown. I can agree with you on the bite mark scene (unless they continue the conversation in the next episode) but the rest of the reused dialogue are good. You’re just so used to the voice tones and delivery of the game that it creates a different feel which can be mistaken for it being bad.
Joel might me ruthless, but hes not dumb, and he knows when to do what. If he shot hi, everyone would hear them and they would be in way bigger trouble then they were at that situation. Joel Is not and idiot, and shooting him just wouldn,t make sense
I don't think this is bad at all. It's a way for newer viewers to show how violent he can get.
And this show is grounded more in realism than the games were. I'm pretty sure openly shooting an officer at night would surely draw attention. He also knew the guard, so he figured he'd at least try and talk himself out of it. Joel and Tess and ruthless, but they're not dumb.
Once Joel realized he couldn't talk his way out, he then realized what he would do.
Here we go!
The show doesn’t have to be a carbon copy of the game.
Just enjoy the show, if not replay the game and enjoy that.
Bro chill
I mean, I get what you are saying, but I feel like a show has to take a more grounded approach as compared to a video game. It makes no sense for 3 unarmored civilians (one being a kid) to take on those fully armored guards using assault rifles, you can even see in the clip you showed how the guards not being attacked just take too long to do anything. Also, Joel kills attackers without caring, but in the game's most important scenes, he kills out of emotion. Joel becomes a hardened killer who's done bad shit and also a very traumatized man after Sarah's death (and he constantly messes with his broken watch to show that), so I don't see a difference in Joel's character this scene, what differs is the encounter itself, while in the game he just defended himself from the random guards that were going to kill them, in the show he lost control and attacked this guard he knew and often dealt with after being reminded of his trauma, now I don't know if he killed the guy, but it didn't seem like he was worried about that.
Headass take
I get what you're saying, but game Joel would not work as a television character. The audience needs to feel some kind of sympathy towards him for the eventual ending to work, whereas in the game you controlling the character trick you into thinking you're the good guy by default. If Pedro Joel acted like game Joel does, the audience would immediately clock him as a violent menace, who needs to be put down. I think this was a smart decision on their part, and could potentially lead to an even more gut-wrenching finale.
Let's also remember that at this point Joel still plans on coming back to Boston, this isn't just some random bandit he kills on the road.
lol it aint that deep
Agreed
this is why you just watch the walking dead ☠️
what are u saying lmao
Bro wot? This isn't the climax of the game...... Bro it's the first ep which is like the first two hours of the game, this is such a small fucking nitpick being turned into such a big thing because I didn't even notice this shit. It's such a throwaway seen in the game and idk why you are choosing this scene to nitpick
I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill dude. I thought the game handled it better too, not just with this scene either but it still landed in my opinion. To make yourself worried over something like this is pure click bait.
waah waah waah
get a grip
what is this video
Yeah this ani't it. He didn;t have a personal connection in the game. He knew the guy in the show, therefore his default was to try to bargain with him. He isn't going to kill a guard and alert all the other guards. The way they handled it was smart in the show, in the game it kicked off an action/stealth sequence. The show did it just fine. Stop nit picking.
I completely disagree with your opinion. Dislike!
Dude you are reaching too far for an interesting video. It would be weird af if he just instantly ran to kill that guard.
This is a bad take. Your wants effectively rob Joel of agency and makes him 1 dimensional.
your reaching bro... smh
nice video but u should really sync your voice with the video
WHY WORRIED JOEL PROTECTS ELLIE ALL TEH WAY THROUGH AS FATHER FIgure.... he crimilnal and based on to survie that why side with joell ---------------------what are you on about that the same as rhe game
I didn't like the scene too. It was awkward and stupid like you got a guy peeing and Joel comes through. The guard sees them and now he's like "wait wait dont move" while trying to zip-up his pants like really 😐. The scene was just goofy, He should have done something like ran towards him knock him out, maybe even ran. He should kill him, it would be good writing. When the guard said stay indoors cause fedra are going double time at night. He probably might get confused and kill joel by accident. But instead joel got confused n killed him. People are saying that it's a good scene cause his not killing people randomly. It shows emotion, 🙄 did we play the same game. Remember, when joel n tess was walking towards the gate. In the game you see fedra checking people and the ones that were infected got killed on the spot. Fedra are the type of people that if you fall in line your good but if you don't your f@ck. Joel wasn't killing randomly ok. In the show you see them live executing people cause they stepped out of line. The environment matters in tlou, especially who were up against. With all that being said there's a couple of things that I didn't like but there's a whole lot of things that I love about this show already. I give this first ep a 8.9/10
Booo, bad take.
They literally show everyone in the QZ being terrified of Joel because he is ruthless. This seems like a complaint for complaining a sake.
Horrible take
Can you enable dislikes pls
What bugged me was all the passenger planes flying down that road. I wish they just added a line like "Oh, there is an airport near" or "They must be trying to fly out of.....airport."
A simple thing, but I was baffled why so many were flying that low and right on that path.
Watch when people come back to this video and say "Dan may have had a point." lol
seeing everyone disagree with this dude puts a smile on my face
i'm sorry but you're making a mountain out of a molehill. and the show did that scene better.