For anyone crying about the Touring being on the wetter side of the runway - We had the runway for a very limited time, cameras were setup to run Touring down the left. It was on the drier side when doing the rolling runs on the way back and the results were the same. Also, the braking tests (either side) showed the tarmac had the same level of grip on both sides. I can't control the weather and I can't afford to hire the runway for hours, we did a brilliant job with what we had. Find some tissues and get on with your Sunday 😘
Loved how synchronised they both sound even though the saloon is ever so slightly faster! Would be really interesting to see how much difference there’d be with the G80 M3 and the F90 M5!
You never struck me as the type of guy to give in to the keyboard warriors. Love your videos and will continue too but seriously don’t give into them. It will only ruin your own great reputation rather then theirs. Keep up the great content! 👌🏻
Hi Jo Two considerations The touring is newer and perhaps tighter as yours has let's say been used In my opinion Nothing in it Great video Don't cancel your Touring Brilliant as always Thank you Tim
I think the extra weight of the touring at the back might be a little bit of a helping factor for pushing the tires harder in the tarmac during launch.
Thanks Joe for this video.. As you said in the "8500 miles review video of your M3 sedan" you cannot argue with physics. Anyhow imo the touring looks much better in dark colours such as dravit or frozen black. Silverstone interior is stunning.
Great comparison! Beaut sound with the two in harmony, interesting to hear the slight difference in shift times... Looking forward to more wagon content 👌 veeeery soon!
Tourings really are the best shape of M3. Especially for anyone over 40. In a touring you don't look like you are trying to hard, a great all round package.
So cool I live in the US and we can’t drag race or any kind of race in the wet but you guys are racing 500 plus Horsepower cars in the wet is sooo Awesome!! I’ve owned a couple of xdrive 535’s (E60-F10) but the power difference is substantial. I know this is an older video but well done Joe what Amazing BMW’s
Was just about to make a remark about the runway LOLOL. One anorak point id like to make is the saloons engine will be making a bit more power as its been well used and run in. Newer engines get looser and make more power with time. So id say based on that its a minute difference between the two cars.
Hey Joe…great content as always. Out of interest how many miles have each car done at this point..most of my BM’s started to open up at around 4/6k miles and continued too
Also a factor is the Sedan is fully broken in and engine has settled.. the touring is still not fully bedded in and will stretch its legs fully in 4-7k more miles
2:13 Just a quick note on the carbon ceramics although they are unsprung mass the performance boost in acceleration and breaking comes from the reduction in rotational mass
Great races! You might want to consider swapping sides after every race, like you did with the brake test, so both cars get to perform on different surfaces and a bit more fairness, in future drag races.
I’ve been looking at these for last few years since you showed concept art . Order books open again now for December delivery . I’m tempted but it’s still £100k for a 3 series estate
@@thambomathambo7146 if you manage to order one, currently wait time could be easily 18 months - not to mention that base 911 without any options are pretty meeh... Also the real power of new M3 is it's tuning potential - easily tuneable with just software over 750 HP.
Thank you for the video and I am looking forward to the review and comparisons.😮I thought there was a 1250 mile running in for the tourer ? & the performance has been dialled back a smidge until that running in service is completed ?
Nick, Thanks for pointing that out. I may have miss read. But certainly any new engine you would run in and have the oils changed before flooring it especially a performance one. I expect Joe was super excited and had limited time left with his saloon.
very interesting 👌 I'm not even sure if I do really prefer the touring.. might be down to colour aswell, but your sedan just looks so perfect. can't wait to see your touring
The state of run-in/mileage on the engines will have a significant effect on low mileage vehicles. It would appear that the touring had less miles on the engine - can you confine this?
seeing a lot of comments about how the touring is a downgrade or that people don’t get why BMW is making it. Essentially it’s just the same car with an even broader appeal and use case so the M3 is viable for a greater demographic of customers. Don’t think about it too hard, it’s existence only adds to the M3. Great video Joe.
Also, I would imagine not every car is producing the exact same amount of HP/Torque. Take another M3 or M4 and it might be a slight different way round, either way, still think 0-60s are real work pointless lol.
some time ago dealership offered test drive of g30 i was not impressed. months later i was wondering around in same dealership saw g31, week later i drove it home. there is something about tourings, Joe would know what i am talking about
How may km’s on each car? I bet most of the difference is down to break in of the motor. The touring is probably only a tenth slower from weight alone once broken in.
Is just the few extra kilos and drag coefficient that make the difference, that is all. Engines also have always small performance differences (is the way things are due to tolerances) between two "identical" units. The Touring is much more practical and more "sleeper".
What about the fact you were saying in your last video that you feel that basically your car is probably in the sweet spot where the engine has freed up and everything just feels a little better than when it’s new which the touring is so don’t be to hard on the touring yet🤔
Couple of points. Andy looks a tad lighter than you, Joe! Also the Saloon is an older engine now, so perhaps develops a bit more power. It’s so academic, but the tourer is still my next order. Love it.
Nice video Joe. Aside from the wetter side of the Touring which has already been covered in the comments, I do feel the extra advantage that the Saloon had over the Touring was not just down to the weight, but also because the saloon's engine is properly run in and loosened up with all the miles you have covered in it, and therefore gave it that little extra edge, more than the 0.1 difference BMW states.
The left side of the track was DEFINITLY wetter than the right side. Either way, fantastic fun video; I think your conclusion would have been the same.
#JoeAchilles, in the second run if you're watching on 4K it sounds amazing like surround sound as the tow engines were just maybe 1 stroke off as they wailed down the race track. BRAVO! #e46DinanTouringX->
For anyone crying about the Touring being on the wetter side of the runway - We had the runway for a very limited time, cameras were setup to run Touring down the left. It was on the drier side when doing the rolling runs on the way back and the results were the same. Also, the braking tests (either side) showed the tarmac had the same level of grip on both sides. I can't control the weather and I can't afford to hire the runway for hours, we did a brilliant job with what we had. Find some tissues and get on with your Sunday 😘
I absolutely agree! those who don't like it don't have to watch it!👍
@@hornet99923 It’s not about liking or watching, it’s about setting a neutral environment to offer a fair / unbiased comparison…
come on man, even if the tc stops as little as 2 or 3% of power in 1st but, mostly in second gear, it is enough to have an edge over the other car.
@@shopgeo I'd argue it's not fair complaining like a little bitch about free content... 🤔
@@JoeAchilles1 lol well said 😂
Loved how synchronised they both sound even though the saloon is ever so slightly faster! Would be really interesting to see how much difference there’d be with the G80 M3 and the F90 M5!
Why didn’t you change lanes in the cars, the estate was in the noticeably wetter part of the track every time! Both rapid though! 👏😀👍
Lack of time to setup cameras. We did the rolling races in opposite lanes and braking tests showed both lanes had exactly the same grip.
Touring! Estate is MB.
Touring's side of the runway definitely seemed wetter! But great fun either way. The Touring is clearly every bit as much a weapon as the saloon. 💪🏻
what a race between these siblings. the sound that these two make 💯💯💯
You never struck me as the type of guy to give in to the keyboard warriors. Love your videos and will continue too but seriously don’t give into them. It will only ruin your own great reputation rather then theirs.
Keep up the great content! 👌🏻
Idk doing so many runs, but not changing lanes to eliminate wetness as a factor
Can’t believe how prices have gone up in the last few years, but thanks for the upload Joe….
Yeah, blame inflation for that.
Hi Jo
Two considerations
The touring is newer and perhaps tighter as yours has let's say been used
In my opinion
Nothing in it
Great video
Don't cancel your Touring
Brilliant as always
Thank you
Tim
Wagon all day long!
Outside shot sound is killer with both cars shifting at the same time.
Both with Miltek would sound so cool!
Let's just take the time to appreciate how slick Joe's videos are. Editing on point. Get content as always Joe.
Thank you!
That shift sound clunk is so nice! I don't why but sound like there's some serious power behind that
The estate on the wetter part of the track in the opening scene
Cracking Joe. Love the multiple in gear tests. I would love to see more torque orientated top gear drags to expose torque deficiencies.
I think the extra weight of the touring at the back might be a little bit of a helping factor for pushing the tires harder in the tarmac during launch.
Yep swings and roundabouts for sure
Thanks Joe for this video.. As you said in the "8500 miles review video of your M3 sedan" you cannot argue with physics.
Anyhow imo the touring looks much better in dark colours such as dravit or frozen black. Silverstone interior is stunning.
Thank you!
LOL the ending!! That was hilariously brilliant.
Wow!! the gear change sound happening simultaneously 🤗. I love both the cars
I was deciding between the two for my next car. Touring it is (almost)!. Thanks Mat!.
Great comparison! Beaut sound with the two in harmony, interesting to hear the slight difference in shift times... Looking forward to more wagon content 👌 veeeery soon!
Thank you!
Tourings really are the best shape of M3. Especially for anyone over 40. In a touring you don't look like you are trying to hard, a great all round package.
Cracking Video Comparison - Cant wait to see yours soon as I reckon in Davit Grey will be epic!
So cool I live in the US and we can’t drag race or any kind of race in the wet but you guys are racing 500 plus Horsepower cars in the wet is sooo Awesome!! I’ve owned a couple of xdrive 535’s (E60-F10) but the power difference is substantial. I know this is an older video but well done Joe what Amazing BMW’s
It's always raining where you live. Ever get any days of brilliant sunshine where you can drive proper?
Another cracking vid joe. New shoes? What are they?
Great vid, hopefully see you at Goodwood somewhen this year 👍🏻
Awesome video. Been seeing the increase in quality on this channel 👏🏻. Keep it up Joe! Very interesting race between the G8x platform.
Thank you!
When the performance is so close, it makes more practical sense to pick the station wagon, if you are ok with a bit more cabin noise inside.
Thanks for sharing Joe. Amazing comparison.
Why must be the touring start in the wet side of the track? Must be nice if you switch.
I’ve got an X3M. I can’t see any reason to get the Touring
Was just about to make a remark about the runway LOLOL. One anorak point id like to make is the saloons engine will be making a bit more power as its been well used and run in. Newer engines get looser and make more power with time. So id say based on that its a minute difference between the two cars.
Hey Joe…great content as always.
Out of interest how many miles have each car done at this point..most of my BM’s started to open up at around 4/6k miles and continued too
Hey, do you have 100 - 200 time for the touring?
Great video idea, excellent execution!
Also a factor is the Sedan is fully broken in and engine has settled.. the touring is still not fully bedded in and will stretch its legs fully in 4-7k more miles
2:13 Just a quick note on the carbon ceramics although they are unsprung mass the performance boost in acceleration and breaking comes from the reduction in rotational mass
Looks like so much fun. Brilliant content as always. Love these cars!!
Thank you!
What's the mileage on the touring ? Not worried about running it in etc before thrashing it?
Great comparison, mate!!
Be good to see the race done again when you get the touring and parts fitted against a standard saloon
Love the vid. Let’s see an Alpina B3 or B5 touring up against the M3. Torque versus BHP!
Fun to watch. Thanks!
I Love the camera mini cinematics we get when you at the starting line
Great races! You might want to consider swapping sides after every race, like you did with the brake test, so both cars get to perform on different surfaces and a bit more fairness, in future drag races.
Just love starting my Sunday watching epic cars drag race! Great content as usual, Joe and what a blast that must have been!
Thank you!
Superb Joe!...more like this please!...🙏🏻
I’ve been looking at these for last few years since you showed concept art . Order books open again now for December delivery . I’m tempted but it’s still £100k for a 3 series estate
That's 911 money. 60k would have been reasonable. The prices will eventually come down.
Ridiculous. What are you actually getting above an m340i with that? 40k for a bit more speed and stiffness.
@@thambomathambo7146 if you manage to order one, currently wait time could be easily 18 months - not to mention that base 911 without any options are pretty meeh... Also the real power of new M3 is it's tuning potential - easily tuneable with just software over 750 HP.
Are you using launch control or just holding on the brake for a 3 secs and releasing?
Nice Joe!! The Touring looks so good!
Great video as always Joe. So glad i subscribed a few months ago.
I'd love to know if the "run in" on the saloon could make any difference too? Both cars are lovely, especially the interiors.
Can't watch any further, because it kills me that the cars don't switch sides, you can see the touring kicking up a cloud of water!
Thank you for the video and I am looking forward to the review and comparisons.😮I thought there was a 1250 mile running in for the tourer ? & the performance has been dialled back a smidge until that running in service is completed ?
Exactly what I was thinking.
Why would the performance be dialed back a bit ? What difference does it make whether it's 400, 450 or 500hp for the break in ?
There is no such thing
Nick, Thanks for pointing that out. I may have miss read. But certainly any new engine you would run in and have the oils changed before flooring it especially a performance one. I expect Joe was super excited and had limited time left with his saloon.
@@an09dre If it's a press car it's either already done before giving it to others or nobody at BMW cares about it.
very interesting 👌 I'm not even sure if I do really prefer the touring.. might be down to colour aswell, but your sedan just looks so perfect. can't wait to see your touring
The state of run-in/mileage on the engines will have a significant effect on low mileage vehicles. It would appear that the touring had less miles on the engine - can you confine this?
seeing a lot of comments about how the touring is a downgrade or that people don’t get why BMW is making it. Essentially it’s just the same car with an even broader appeal and use case so the M3 is viable for a greater demographic of customers. Don’t think about it too hard, it’s existence only adds to the M3. Great video Joe.
Love your videos that touring is just 👌🏻
Nice to see the 1200 mile running in part is being taken gently!🤔😂
It's a press car, they are always delivered Run in.
Interesting video. I wish you had turned the RaceBox on so we could get rid of the reaction time/track differences...
Joe do you think some of that arguably negligible difference between the two was down to the newer touring vs a ‘broken in’ Grillez?
Exactly what I was thinking, almost definitely yes I’d say.
Also, I would imagine not every car is producing the exact same amount of HP/Torque. Take another M3 or M4 and it might be a slight different way round, either way, still think 0-60s are real work pointless lol.
Thats red interior is just so 👌
Prefer the Touring any day, better looks, more practical and most likely better resale value over time.
Hey Joe,
The great thing about hanging out with M3's... is that you can always return to M5's for some real fun!😉🙉
Gord
some time ago dealership offered test drive of g30 i was not impressed. months later i was wondering around in same dealership saw g31, week later i drove it home. there is something about tourings, Joe would know what i am talking about
Gear changes are almost in perfect harmony !
Engine has loosened up nicely on GR11LEZ...cool video
Dueling S58s.... you have the best job in the world.
Considering the track was way wetter on the Touring side, the Touring did quite amazing.
When we did the rolling tests it was the other way around, also the braking tests clearly showed both sides had the same grip.
That wagon is beautiful!!
Great vid. I love the saloon 😬
So are you upgrading or downgrading with the touring mate, touring looks better but saloon better all-rounder
Loving all the content on the Touring! Great video Joe! keep churning mate.
I can’t believe no one picked up that the estate has the Driver Assistance Professional package optioned, so it’s heavier even more.
Shoulda swapped sides just for a comparison?
Why the blue one always must start by the slippery wet conditions? 😅
Joe... check the latest video of prior design channel!
You have definitely chosen the best colour for the touring! it's stunning in dravit
The thumb rule I know about rotating mass is factor 5-8, so the 10kgs vs 85kgs would be quite close according to that
Joe, is it me or the surface for the estate was more under water than for the saloon? 💁♂️
Maybe you should switch from race to race.
Would be interesting to put both of them on the Dyno to see if they are making the same power.
How may km’s on each car? I bet most of the difference is down to break in of the motor. The touring is probably only a tenth slower from weight alone once broken in.
Do I recognise that gr11 lez plate from your channel or from driving around Sussex? I feel it's the latter but I'm guessing you're around Croydon.
M3 touring vs RS6 ?
It would be interesting to see which car is more aerodynamic in a wind tunnel.
Is just the few extra kilos and drag coefficient that make the difference, that is all. Engines also have always small performance differences (is the way things are due to tolerances) between two "identical" units. The Touring is much more practical and more "sleeper".
What about the fact you were saying in your last video that you feel that basically your car is probably in the sweet spot where the engine has freed up and everything just feels a little better than when it’s new which the touring is so don’t be to hard on the touring yet🤔
Couple of points. Andy looks a tad lighter than you, Joe! Also the Saloon is an older engine now, so perhaps develops a bit more power. It’s so academic, but the tourer is still my next order. Love it.
Nice video Joe. Aside from the wetter side of the Touring which has already been covered in the comments, I do feel the extra advantage that the Saloon had over the Touring was not just down to the weight, but also because the saloon's engine is properly run in and loosened up with all the miles you have covered in it, and therefore gave it that little extra edge, more than the 0.1 difference BMW states.
The left side of the track was DEFINITLY wetter than the right side. Either way, fantastic fun video; I think your conclusion would have been the same.
Wish the Touring was coming to South Africa🔥
#JoeAchilles, in the second run if you're watching on 4K it sounds amazing like surround sound as the tow engines were just maybe 1 stroke off as they wailed down the race track. BRAVO! #e46DinanTouringX->
Joe, Since you were in MDM, were you footbraking the initial start and not using LC on both cars?
Great runs!
You can use LC with MDM.
@@chickenballpizza4902 is this a European only thing? I thought dsc had to be off
what is the unsprung to regular mass multiplier? like 10 or 15x? I know why bmw got rid of dct... cause their launch control never worked haha
Rotational mass is about a 4x multiplier but not sure on unsprung.
I’m taking saloon over touring
That frozen blue paint 🤤
Better to have a 3rd person to call the race. But good video, enjoyed it
Lovely video 😍
For a moment, I was hoping that you would keep both ;)
Wouldn’t grilez have more miles and be more broken in ?
I think aerodynamics played a part at higher speeds too. What's the CD of the saloon v the estate? Great vid 👍