@@erikgreen4344 Not necessarily. Apart from the fact that the game now allows for different detachment types with different organizations, the Imperial Guard actually have command options that aren't independent characters in the form of a command platoon.
@@stephenlucas8836 Good to hear that Astra Militarum is now unplayable without uniques or allies, then, since their only generic HQ units are command squads.
Regarding Borg collecting their dead: I always got the impression it was because they didn't want their technology to fall into enemy hands for tactical reasons, rather than them caring for each other
I just realized something else: Borg are obviously Steel-Type, so shouldnt they be weak to Fire-Type-Attacks like Phaser? Also, if Phaser are Fire-Type, are the Federation Fire-Type Pokemon?! Heck, they even wear Red if they are powerful now that i think about it!!!
As well as that, resources are resources. Though the Borg have shown themselves to be willing to treat resources extremely wastefully, maybe they were just making a point for the sake of the characters in the shows ("We have so much stuff we can throw away entire Cubes like they're bottle caps"). I'd generally assume that a race like the Borg would recycle basically everything just for the sake of efficiency. Also, @Slevin Channel, the Borg are definitely weak to Fighting type attacks - it's astonishing how often a race of cyborgs who can shrug off a direct blast from a phaser rifle are then immediately taken out by being smacked in the face with the stock of said phaser rifle. Honestly, I think if you could get a Klingon boarding party onto a Cube (backed up by some serious tech support) they could probably capture the thing.
Voyager was kinda Second Place of all Fanchises if you consider just how trashy things like Enterprise and DS9 are. Better than DS9, better than many 'Picard', better than many Shows. If you ignore the inconsistency, it's definetly Number 2 or 3 of all Shows.
@@slevinchannel7589 voyager was so far under ds9 it’s not even close! You could rename Star Trek voyager to Star Trek Holodeck adventures….just coz you like votager and dislike ds9 doesn’t mean you’re right…you’ve been told this in multiple commemts on this video alone on different commemts. Why would we ignore consistency? If the show is inconsistent them it’s not a good show on the whole….you’re basically saying ‘ if you ignore how bad a lot of the episodes are, then this is the best show’ it’s an oxymoron voyager for me is dead last with absolutely no worries!
I didn't find the Borg that confusing, at least early on (TNG) Its biomechanics. Basically a giant organism. With the addition of deductive reasoning. For example, the presence of a foreign body inside the collective is meaningless. Until it demonstrated a threat, then it responds quickly and decidedly. Further, a drone itself is unimportant, but if a drone is killed, that's a threat. Something is now dangerous, retrieve drone, deny information, analyze how or what harmed it. To me, the Borg are terrifying because of the marriage of the biological imperative with the logical. What if a bacteria could excereise reason? They aren't "intelligent" as we would undersrand it, but they are "aware" As in they can, and do, immediately seek to learn from an experience and immediately move to change to compensate. Regardless of any philosophical or moral consideration. They are a horror of the will to live mixed with the curiosity of self awareness. Honestly their conception to me is far more terrifying then the cartoon villain they were eventually written to be.
Here’s an idea: what if they weren’t that truly interested in assimilation of humanity, but were very interested in humanity’s links to the Q? Unless Q somehow prevented them from knowing he was involved, then assimilation of even a single crew member would tell them there was an entity behind the strange feats the borg witnessed. Attacking humanity might reveal more information about this entity.
Here's an idea: what if they weren't that truly interested in assimilation of humanity's link to the Q? Unless Q somehow prevented them from knowing he was involved, then assimilation of even a single crew member would tell them there was an entity behind the strange feats the borg witnessed. Attacking humanity might reveal more information about this entity.
The Borg also took out the Elorians who were so good that the Q agreed to a cease fire with them. The Borg are familiar with the Q continuum AND how to beat them.
That would explain the single cube attacks they keeps sending against earth. Instead of conquering them, they're trying to get a reaction from the Q by poking their pet, maybe?
It's possible the Queen always existed but she didn't have a physical form until sometime in the series. She could have been just a powerful program that guided what the Borg did but then at some point, maybe when Hue introduced individuality to them, the Borg decided that having a someone with a little more individuality would allow the Borg to understand humans which would allow them a better chance at defeating them.
Q realy saved the federation by sending the Enterprise to meet the Borg. The Borg had already been nibbeling at Federation and Romulan borders and were well aware of the Federation due to the Raven and the events at first contact and their encounter with Archer. Q just evened out the playfield by making the UFP aware of the Borg.
You can't bring up later established stuff to make you point. Raven is from Voyager and Voyager doesn't respect lore together with First Contact. It is either First Contact and Enterprise is canon or TNG is canon, it can't be both.
The Enterprise ep with First Contact Borg were disconnected from the main collective, they even say that the signal they sent would take over a hundred years to reach the delta quadrant. Even in first contact they were trying to build a beacon to contact the borg in that time. So it wouldn’t have made the borg aware of the federation from that.
@@BangingMash Yeah... that hundred or so years... that was to coincide with the TNG timeline. Granted, it's reconning canon established in TNG but it's not incompatible. Especially when you take into account that the borg had been scooping up UFP and romulan colonies on the very edges of their territory. The borg were coming as of 'the neutral zone'. Thanks to Q, the feds at least knew.
I think Q sent the Enterprise to encounter the Borg with the intention of rescuing them all along, but only if Picard humbled himself. Q never wanted to be on the ship, he wanted to test Starfleet to see if they could admit they were wholly unprepared for what awaited them, and warn them of what they had to look forward to if they continued recklessly exploring space. Q was acting altruistically, albeit in a way befitting his smug nature.
You could argue that farming is exactly what the borg were doing to the species we see in the voyager episode "Dauntless" They were a highly advanced species that had been "Fending off" the borg for centuries. After the war with Species 8472 they simply couldn't afford that luxury anymore and went full on assimilating that species to help replenish numbers and resources.
If you watched TNG, you would remember that when they were talking about disconnecting Picard from the Borg, Data says that the Borg remove components from the Borg to separate them from the collective. The Borg then self destruct. They don't collect the body.
lol right right. hey at least star trek makes a decent effort towards continuity.....at least it used too. I think anyone who appreciates star trek can agree this jj abrams star trek is trash. sure the special effects are lightyears improved, but a polished turd still smells like shit
Maybe their low Effiency (that Seven is so extreeemly proud of, by the way) is what makes it so the Borg havent already won? I mean, think about it: They're better than current Star Fleet, but vastly inferior to the 29.Century Star Fleet. That's laughable, if you know what i mean. They're millions of years old, maybe billions of years old, according to Guinen. Is that how you write her name? Ah, whatever. The point is, no matter how you look at it, the Borg should be better than they are, but they aren't, so i assume 9472 is just a good example for what always will happen if you're THAT agressive: People will hunt you down.
@@slevinchannel7589 "That Seven is always so extremely proud of" - people always overestimate their abilities in the compartments where they are lacking the most. I agree... Given the time they have been around, the civilizations that they assimilated, and their sheer current numbers as their story opens, in Universe, the Borg tech should be improving leaps and bounds over the other cultures in the Trek Canon. But they lack insight, diversity of point of view and related differential analysis and for all its vaunted power, their collective conscience doesn't seem much brighter than a moderately gifted, single, isolated individual of a "lower" species. It seems more akin to an overgrown cerebellum than to a super-conscience. If we put all together, inefficiency is too light a word to describe their results.
Everything after Generations is happening in Picard's head. When he was picked up by the Ribbon, he gained the ability to make "Reality" what ever he wanted. He's still in the Ribbon.
Good but I prefer Q and how he said the court judgement will be ongoing , also how the finale went now...I could be wrong BUT the Picard season 2 trailer has Q saying "Welcome to the end of the path not taken" perhaps its been Q since the end of TNG series playing with Picard as he says the path not taken and that the Q judgement of humanity was ever going.
You and I had the exact same headcanon about the Queen: a means to integrate the concept of individuality into the collective after the Hugh individuality "virus" forced them to adapt. Personally, I like the idea that The Queen is a program running within a sort of Borg immune system where the concept of individuality can be localized (so that only one Borg or one Borg per ship is affected at any given time), and as soon as one queen is killed a new one manifests to take its place. As for why Picard didn't have the same effect? Simple. Whatever mechanism is used to remove individuality is activated as part of the assimilation process. Once the individual is assimilated, The Borg wouldn't have any reason to repeat the process. So by reintroducing individuality after the assimilation process had already happened, the Federation basically created a Trojan Horse that the Borg were initially unequipped to handle.
i think you sir are very smart. and i think this is reasonable and very well thought out. i think this not only works but fits well, and explains a lot! i love it and its awesome and your awesome!
I look at it more that the concept of individuality is destroyed before you're connected to the collective, and thus, since Hugh wasnt assimilated a second time, he merely was reconnected to the Collective, that's why individuality was allowed to spread
That's exactly what happened in the Unimatrix Zero episode of voyager. Some Borg archived individuality. The queen was unable to access their thoughts (or "hear their voices" as she called it) but still knew where they were and destroyed the vessels they were on. So it makes perfect sense that the queen is some kind of sub program of the collective, allowed some individuality to protect the whole from said individuality.
Theory: the Borg sphere in "First Contact" was easily disabled because it was made of 21st century oak and maple hardwood, therefore allowing the ship to be carbon dated.
I think that you are all missing the fact that too many idiot writers write the line "was carbon dated" when speaking of substances which have no carbon to be "carbon dated". Wood has carbon and can be carbon dated, gold can never be "carbon dated" (looking at Jackie Chan's Operation Condor 1991.)
Here's my theory: the franchise has had multiple writers who had trouble maintaining consistency, and Enterprise, desperate for ratings, included among other things the Borg even though it wouldn't make sense. The Borg then suffer the greatest problem: villain decay.
Actually, the Borg in Enterprise were far better written and utilized that they were in all of Voyager. The Borg in Enterprise have been shown to be the least consistent among all the other Borg of the franchise.
@@jonahfalcon1970 Yes. Voyager actively retconned the Borg on a regular basis. Whereas in Enterprise Archer and crew never even got to know their species name. So the timeline we see in TNG episode "Q Who" still stands.Nothing lore-wise was damaged by the Borg episodes in Ent. I mean, in one Voy episode we see a Borg drone bend over to use a computer console. You're telling me, that a species with a mass hive mind and ships directly interlinked with that hive mind, still has to use viewscreens and type on consoles, lol?
Besides Guinan, you're forgetting Seven of Nine; a contemporary with Picard and the Enterprise. She and her parents had been assimilated at least twenty years before the events portrayed on TNG...
I think the borg used shields in some situations for a pretty simple reason: Flying around in space at very fast but sub-warp speeds means a lot of stuff is going to slam into your ship, and with things going that fast it has the potential to do a lot of damage. Shields would be the most sensible way to avoid the problem completely. So they werent great shields, they were just good enough for the purpose. Not intended for combat use
Your theory about assimilation so far leaves out all the Guinan dialog about her race being destroyed and assimilated by the Borg. There's no impression whatsoever that those events happened recently as far as I'm concerned. They had time to wander the stars, recover, and move on. Especially in light of Time's Arrow. I think it had to happen before that.
Slade Wilson it happened at least back in the Kirk era. Generations had Guinean as a refugee... presumably from the borg? That’s a whole other piece that doesn’t really fit neatly though because she was also on earth thousands of years in the old west times.
I get the feeling that the assimilation of the El Aurians happened far closer to the events of Generations. I always thought that Guinan visited Earth in the 19th Century of her own volition, and that her people had not yet been assimilated. However, that still leaves the question of why Starfleet didn't know about that Borg invasion. Guinan and the other refugees should have warned the Federation about the Borg long ago. Also, given the extremely long El Aurian life span and how well-travelled they seem to have been, the Borg should have accumulated a vast amount of knowledge about the history of the Alpha and Beta quadrants from them alone. Out of all those species they found out about, were the El Aurians the only ones they deemed worthy of assimilation at that time? Is that why they waited so long to return and take the colonies at the Neutral Zone?
@@shibolinemress8913 the Al aurans are from the Delta quadrant, Borg territory. While Guinan and her race travelled alot there is no reason to believe the Borg would bother traveling all the way to the Alpha quadrant when they had plenty of races nearby still to assimilate. Certain Starfleet elements likely knew of a hostile race obliterating life in the Delta. They were at least a 30 40 year travel time (as far as they knew) away. It wasn't until the Enterprise was brought a mere 2 years away and encountered them that they knew they were that close.
(Edit: This is how I interpreted what the Queen said in First Contact. Yay Voyager...) The borg queen sometimes acting as though she is an individual and sometimes an avatar is not as contradictory as it seems. Admittedly, this is my own head canon, but I see the queen as an emergent consciousness from the collective itself. Each drone in the collective acts like a neuron within the brain, and the interactions between the drones result in a super consciousness that has developed on top the neurological traffic that is the collective. The main difference between the queen and ourselves is that she is able to listen and control the traffic between the drones, whereas we cannot listen to our individual neurons. The body we see is not a separate drone that has maintained it's individuality and can interface with the borg, nor is it is just a robotic avatar spouting the aggregate will of the collective. It is instead an avatar of the personality that has emerged from the collective itself.
Yes, borg Queen with Pinhead and Deadpool all riding unicorns. What’s the premise of the story? Doesn’t matter. But I may make it into a children’s story. A is for apple. B is for Borg, and Q is for Queen. The Borg Queen is a special Borg. Are you special too? And P is for Pinhead. G is for Gash and O is for Order. Pinhead is the high Priest of the Order of the Gash which means he is a leader. Would you like to be a leader? D is for Deadpool. He is a superhero...wow, I can make Hellraiser Cybermen and leadership into a children’s story, but get stuck with Deadpool. Something is definitely wrong about this or me. Gonna go talk to my shrunken head about this. 😎🤯👶🍿
I've always envisioned that the Queen is a separate, connected intelligence to the Cube's (it's also important to remember that each Cube is canonically, in Alpha content, a separate intelligence to all the others, they just cooperate). It's not necessarily in charge, but it, as a singular unit rather than a hive mind, has a unique and valued perspective and may have different priorities over the Cube. If I were to guess the timeline for this, they were probably introduced after the rescue of Locutus, as that ploy would have been caught easily by a individual, and Picard proving to be tactically vital to the Federation victory. In ny head, Queens were introduced to give an individual perspective for a Cube.
About the Locutus rescue: possibly, if not for the elements of the First Contact plot stating a previous connection between the two. Now whether Picard talking about the desire of the Borg for him to willingly “give himself” being over to the Borg as a hive (collective/royal “you” ) or to the Queen herself (the individual “you”) is the point of debate which may be at the heart of this. Not that there were any other “canon-ball” sized holes in the First Contact plot… like an obvious lack of dilithium, or the huge amount of cultural contamination in Bozeman, or anything else…All things being equal, it and the other Star Trek/Ahab story of STTWOK were probably the two best films overall, with two of the best villains; but both had plot holes you could fly a Voth city ship through.
Paladin Boyd hmm sure thing. It never stopped anyone from firing on Ent D. Newly encountered species wouldn’t know they had children onboard. If that were the rationale why have a battle bridge in order to separate and let families escape?
Great analysis as to why the Borg behaved the way they did in the ST:TNG first encounter, but I honestly don't think the producers thought that far ahead. There's also the other stuff that got retconned, like the novel Probe where it's revealed that the planet of living machines encountered by the Voyager space probe in ST: The Motion Picture that turned it into V'Ger and sent it to assimilate worlds and even assimilate people to create emissaries (like they did with Ilia) were the Borg. This patches a few plot holes, too.
Q was giving the Federation both a scare and a chance to prove themselves. The Borg Cube wasn't a 'combat cube' but rather an exploration mission... any new technology is of interest to the Borg so even if the Federation was not as advanced in some areas it still had sufficient other points of interest to attract Borg inspection...
I'd say a big part of how the crew got over being assimilated so fast was more just the lack of things they were forced to do on behalf of the Borg. Picard had to go through directly being in charge of destroying an entire fleet of his comrades, Janeway and crew just got to tool around with some fancy cybernetics for a bit.
that and the fact they werent merged within the collectif but kept the individuality also .. they choose it/knew what was comming, at that point it's not much dif then being hurt physically only and healed
Voyager was kinda Second Place of all Fanchises if you consider just how trashy things like Enterprise and DS9 are. Better than DS9, better than many 'Picard', better than many Shows. If you ignore the inconsistency, it's definetly Number 2 or 3 of all Shows.
@@siimkivisild2251 My statement about the common human is right though? Objectively? Just cause some realize bad stuff, like Mulan 2019, doesnt change that - if anything, it proves my point. Something needs to be bad beyond redemption so people really 'get it'.
Here's the thing, ever since First Contact I have been struggling with this. The Borg have a "Robocop 2 problem" when it comes to that movie. And everything Borg related afterward had a "Robocop 3 problem". Here's what I mean. If you don't understand the source material, the meanings, the themes, the story, then you don't have the ability to make anything as good as the OG, even IF you have access to most of the same talent. And if you don't even have access to the same level of talent as the original on top of everything else, it all goes downhill rather quickly. The Borg Queen was not created to be a part of the lore, she was created to be a mortal foe that could be defeated easily because the staff were afraid that nobody would understand that the Borg are not a cube of black metal and goth gear and junk, but an implacable force of nature that must be dealt with like a hurricane or a tornado (don't talk to me about weather control, that was a metaphor). They could have made her a part of the lore, as say a reaction to Hugh. Instead she is a fundamental misunderstanding of how social insects and computer networks work. Afterward, it really becomes a Robo 3 problem because the writers just got lazy, and started to do things on the level of a comic book. It's a real pity, because they had so many options, but in the end Star Trek decided to never let anyone rise above "Space Viking"
@@hariseldon3786 And the Borg was Roddenberry's way of warning us about the inevitable ultimate outcome of that ideology? One queen ruling over an empire where everyone looks the same, thinks the same, wants the same. All of them equal and at the same time strongly totalitarian to both insiders and outsiders. Pretty brilliant :P
@James Furey No.1 It was said with humorous intent. No. 2 I don't abuse people e.g. call them 'morons' - even if I know they are. So I guess we are coming from different places of thought.
To me, the whole concept of the Borg “queen” makes sense. Essentially, the culmination of the programming that ultimately controls the collective. Therefore “she” has always existed. However, Hugh’s reintroduction and corruption could still have slipped through before the Alpha and Beta quadrants were fully cut off. Therefore, the queen gained a sort of “individuality” as a means of keeping the corruption from infecting the Borg as a whole. All that individuality was simply taken and put into one, the queen.
They purposely added “individuality” to themselves with the creation of Loqutis (aka Borg Picard), so there must have been part of the controlling system that recognized the value of individuality, therefore an individual intelligence acting as the guiding impetus behind the Collective makes sense.
No, she doesn't make any sense and ruins the Eldritch horror feeling that Borg originally had. There was no need to have anyone to control Borg. Actually automatic program would be fully functional without anyone telling what to do.
@@Tespri So, being absorbed into a mental and physical hegemony, turned into a meaningless cog that is easily replaced or repurposed, physically and mentally reshaped, is not an eldritch horror to you if there is an insect-like Queen behind the Collective?
@@nvfury13 that is not different from totalitarian state. With being like queen it can be still reasoned. With silent force of death it would be true horror.
@@Tespri The Queen is what always resisted attempts to reason, the Collective itself was brutally logical, survival of the whole it’s only goal. The Collective bargained when needed, she only bargained if she *wanted to* even if that was counter to the best interest of the Collective’s survival.
18:17 All of the Voyager and First Contact retcons have a far simpler answer: Because Rick Berman and Brennan Braga were hack writers who literally said "To Hell with Continuity!", as in, they had an extraordinary contempt for the very concept of continuity and didn't really give a damn what was established, but what looked flashy. It is impressive to try to reverse engineer a reason to tie all these changes in the Borg lore together as a thought experiment, but you're already putting infinitely more effort into the writing than the bloody writers did.
They Klingons were not at Wolf 359, but we know a Klingon fleet did fight a cube. Likely it was the fleet the Klingons sent, engaged separately from the Federation forces at Wolf 359.
I thought this all along, after Scorpion, Voyager keep the Borg Advancements. After Drone, they had upgrade ship. Voyager isn't your standard Federation vessel. It is now a Borg-Fed hybrid ship. This is why it appears OP in some episodes.
General impression of this video so far: "Despite Borg's overwhelming superiority in tech, numbers and sheer pig-headedness, Federation manages to out-Stupid and out-MacGuffin the them at every turn" Your idea that Borg may evolve to one day resemble a conventional nation with government, trade, diplomacy etc, is intriguing. I can imagine them emulating such a system if they reach a conclusion that it better suits their goal than the current setup. How much of that emulation would be functional and how much would be just for show is in itself a big juicy topic to speculate on.
@@nerdytechs514 I meant orthodox Borg, the ones still beholden to their primary Collective but decide one day that it will be more efficient to go about it the different manner and start pretending to be a interstellar empire with all the attributes of such, implementing usefull traits of a conventional state and even going so far as to emulate ones they don't need so as to appear less repulsive to outsiders they want to manipulate.
I imagine they would eventually turn into something more akin to a cult of knowledge and technology when they realize they can get everything they want with a bit of good publicity without the need to waste resources on military power, eventually turning into a repository of galactic knowledge that people who join them bring in. Perhaps even encouraging new members to go through the process of completing education in specific subjects in their home governments, then immigrate to become assimilated and complete the process of becoming true Borg.
Headcanon: Q didn't just send the Enterprise to J25. He sent them back in time, changing the priorities of the Borg from capturing technology, to attaining perfection via a fusion of all worthy organic life and synthetic technology. It fixes so many plotholes :)
Which is exactly how the Borg Cube Q threw the Enterprise at was able to regenerate to full strength right as the bridge crew were staring at the damages they inflicted on the Borg Cube, @@joshuaperrine2019. The entirety of the Borg Collective onboard were channeling some sort of bio-electrical energy that literally repaired their somewhat severely damaged Cube in just a few moments. This ability alone would of kept the Borg way OP into Voyager's series had this ability not been retconned out of existence.
I always assumed that the main ‘design’ purpose of the Borg queen was as a way of compressing the info of the drones on her cube so that the whole collective across the galaxy could be kept apprised of strategy. Presumably it’s easier to send the consciousness of one monarch over sub-space (or whatever FTL comms the Borg use) rather than a whole cube of drones very far and maintain signal quality, I just thought it was a bandwidth thing. I don’t think it’s ever stated that when a drone is part of the collective it can hear literally every Borg in the galaxy. I assumed that the queens would have their own smaller collective and that the drones (as well as their combined consciousness) act on an algorithm that is generated when a queen orders something. This would mean that a drone only hears the thoughts of every drone assigned to the same queen and their queens orders (and presumably news from the queen about what the rest of the collective is up to.)
The encounter with Borg tech can explain why Starfleet seems far more advanced in the new movies and TV shows. And it's no surprise that time bureau of the future federation didn't intervene: it has a good impact on the federation.
I always thought that the queen wasn't an individual but she just had a unique role almost as if she was like the manager to every Borg cube, so she could maintain order and efficiency, but she would still be part of the collective. Maybe even she is allowed a bit of individuality due to the nature of her job being a matter of opinion sometimes
As for the Queen - i think they were implemented by the borg to combat the tampering made by Hugh (and starfleet). Hugh brought disorder to the collecitve and it had massive impact on the borg so the queens were introduced to combat and limit that phenomena later on - basically the borg adapted to the situation. Prior to Hugh there was no need for "Queen's" to exist. Initially the borg were purging the individuality at the moment of assimilation - so later on there was no need to purge it later on as they assumed there was nothing to purge later on. There were no mechanism in place to check if that was the case later on (at least prior to Hugh). That is why when Hugh rejoined the collective - he was seen already as borg and assumed he was up to spec - and that is why he wasnt checked for "individuality" again. Basically that was a design flaw in the borg at the time - Which was corrected by making the queens - their role was to check the collective and purge anything that was not cohevise and was introducing chaos to the order-- You can get snippets of that functionality in the Dark frontier when one by one Queen was locating "the infected" drones to restore cohesion of the collective. For eg from programming point of view - the hugh was an unexpected (unverifided) variable that was indtroduced to a system that had no check at the time to verify if that variable was up to proper specs. thus it crashed the program when it was introduced. (the system was checking the input variables but it wasnt checking them later on if their values were still correct). It was like trying to input float variable into integer based subrutine. it would crash it beacuse the float was unexpected.
dead drones = spare parts, thats the only way i can see the borg caring about their dead/injured, but discovery... it missed so many chances to get really deep and tie itself into to the older series, everytime it skimmed the surface of doing it, it ran away screaming
I disagree. I think it's a mix of technological recovery, taking advantage of a situation, bodily recovery on par with hive-mind species like ants, and a smidge of revenge. When one suffers, all suffer. Any crime imposed one one individual drone is a crime committed against the entire collective. It's one thing to punch one person. But to assault trillions? All at once? Unforgivable.
13:39 "Once Picard was assimilated, they determined that it was Q that did it and thus decided just to continue on into the Federation." Why? If the Borg knew everything Picard knew, they also must have realized that the Federation did not have the technology to move ships as fast as Q did, and that Earth was still not worth assimilating. So why then did they proceed to Earth?
@@blm2357 while it's pretty clearly impossible for the Borg to assimilate a Q, I would love to see what the Borg do with that kind of power without the ego of a Q.
I think that the difference in how Picard vs Huge effect the Borg is more to do with safe guards that put in place based on the risk. The process of assimilation removes the individuality and puts safe guards in place until the new drone is deemed safe. When an existing drone is reconnected after being disconnected for some reason, the neuro nodes are already in place and there by can bypass any security.
I think the borg are a good foil to the federation, but an even better foil for Picard specifically. He so prides himself on being able to use diplomacy to resolve situations. Holds true to the idea that to be a spacefairing civilization, you must be capable of reason. But the Borg have a trait that he can't overcome, no matter how skillful a diplomat he is; they're _implacable._ Picard is forced to come to terms with this, but by exhausting the usual diplomatic avenues he makes both his crew and the Federation vulnerable. If he'd been a bit more klingon and gone all out with the first attack, the cube could well have been damaged beyond repair, they aren't invincible after all. Wolf 359 happened as a direct result of Picard's inability to see his enemy as implacable. To give them no quarter when he had the upper-hand. In First Contact, you really get to see the end of this arc. A man filled with anger and regret about this. Well aware he's to blame for those killed at Wolf 359. Fully aware of what the Borg represent.
Janeways Morality is completly Warped, as evidend by 'Night' in Season 5. In this Episode, glaring Insanity is obvious: Not only is she able to regret sacrificing 150 People to save a Species (the Ocampa), but no, furthermore, she really considers getting a species going extinct for 150 people to not have a MINOR discomfort. That's insane. Her Federation Morals seem to be extremly weak. She would absolutely consider wiping out Species for the sake of her little Crew. ...And the Episode Tuvix... was... intense... yeah, intense...
But ultimately, she DID sacrifice those 150 crew in order to save a species. Right? Feeling sad about losing her crew is understandable. She followed her Training and Principles. Regretting loss of life is hardly dishonorable. I agree that Janeway's morals are warped, but not so much in this instance. I'm upset that she killed the 'Borg god' which was the Omega Particle after is synchronized its mass into a 'perfect' crystalline structure.
Tuvix was a creep. Having the power to bring back TWO members who did NOT subject themselves to become 1 was an easy answer. In fact it’s just like you said, he should of given up himself to save the others. Needs of the many right?? But he didn’t! He whined and complained and tried to turn the crew against her. It was creepy
@@k.t.1641 Forcing an individual to sacrifice themselves is different from an individual sacrificing themselves. And I think a lot of people would say "not my problem" instead of sacrificing themselves
@@Blasted2Oblivion Narissa killed Hugh with a thrown knife to the neck after he refused to give up Picard and activating the queencell, which was both a treaty violation and an act of insurrection. =,(
Perhaps the Borg Collective is run on incredibly simple algorithms. The Collective will simply assimilate anything and everything. The Queen, however, is an individual who regulates this instinct with her own mind. In other words, she sets the goals of the Collective. However, having her own mind free of the Collective, she has an ego and is unable to see her own flaws, especially given the enormous power that control of the Borg gives her. In essence, she's a narcissist and the Collective can't do anything to change this because it doesn't have an ego, so it can't be self-reflective, which also explains why the Queen has to become aware of freed drones.
Voyager was kinda Second Place of all Fanchises if you consider just how trashy things like Enterprise and DS9 are. Better than DS9, better than many 'Picard', better than many Shows. If you ignore the inconsistency, it's definetly Number 2 or 3 of all Shows.
Why assume that the borg queen where there.......in body? Because Picard said? She is the colective. She was there. She is in every borg. She doesnt need to be there to be there. The will of the colective was with Picard.
Talking about the technology from the sphere from First Contact not being utilised approaches the issue from the perspective that Enterprise is a pure prequel. But I prefer to think of it as a timeline altered by the events of First Contact. For example, in The Motion Picture we see the previous ships named Enterprise, which doesn't include NX-01. This can be explained because Troi told Cochrane that their ship was called Enterprise, and so the NX-01 of that timeline is called Enterprise to honor it.
This would make sense except discovery. Control was made by section 31 and used nano tech. Borg tech from enterprise being used and connecting to prime timeline more concretly.
I've always felt that the Cube Q sent the Enterprise to was probably the closest one, so it makes sense that it would be a light recon cube as opposed to a full blown vessel of war.
When the American Constitution was written they basically said that Congress could make choices, but they need the President to make quick choices. Perhaps the Collective could make choices, but the Queen was needed sometimes to make quick choices.
I hope so too, but that jackass Alex Kurtzman is so stupid he would most likely say " Who is Q?" Sad but true, maybe my friend you should write Star Trek, just to show those idiots how it is done, damn I miss good Star Trek.
Orville is the best proof that star trek can still really work nowadays, you just have to write the right story, and not any loosely connected plots or plots that last an entire season and where nobody knows what happened in the last episode
Star Trek has been working. Your mind just stopped or it never understood Trek in the first place. You also apparently haven't watched real television, either, because serials are in. Maybe you just need to give it a rest, snowflake.
On the voyager/borg/species 8472 aspect, you're missing the part where they telepathically told Kes they were going to "purge the galaxy", also, Voyager at the time had the most advanced shielding of any star fleet vessel. I agree they probably should have been destroyed with that attack but Borg cubes have no shielding against weapons they haven't adapted to yet.
If the encounter in Q-Who and BoBW "changed" the Borg to assimilate people, how come they assimilated 7of9's parents 20+ years before the time period of those episodes ? See, the thing here is this: Do you side with the inconsistencies of the Borg in TNG (hive mind vs ze queen for example, or black rubber armor vs insect like armor) , or do you side with the retcon/attempt at streamlining (that also wasn't 100% consistent) in the Voyager/Enterprise era ? Because mashing it all together will not give you the results you think it will . Hence your theory that doesn't hold up to what was on screen .
Hey Guys, this is a combination of all of the videos, I removed any content that got me hit with a CBS content ID so the first and second video may seem kind of off, I appreciate your understanding.
Free to pursue things like genesis devices, biogentic weapons, engineering human DNA, develope humans that had telekenetic powers and agressive immune systems. Transphasic torpedoes? Where did that tech come from? You're right. They're pretty open minded about what you can study.
Lore Reloaded... If you are in the show runner of a new Star Trek show set in the future. How would you fix (some or most of) the lore inconsistencies and give the Borg “teeth” again?
That's a great idea - that the Cube that Q sent the Enterprise was back in time... I saw the episode recently for the first time in many years and it does look very different on the inside then others that came later, they even had what looked like a more primitive interface with hand emplacements... maybe the Cube was actually in 1100 A.D. - that would be interesting...
You might be onto something there, the german title of that episode is "Zeitsprung mit Q" or "time jump with Q". Of course there is always the possibility of a bad translation, but it wouldn't hurt to consider that idea.
The Borg were no longer the Borg when the writers invented this Queen. In TNG they were automata, zombies, interchangeable, cells in the hive mind. When they were disabled, they were destroyed. They just kept coming. With the first-time in forever need for 'Locutus of Borg' they become weak. The same cube that destroyed entire fleets with ease is hacked, put to sleep and disintegrates. Then the whole queen thing brings them down to the level of bullies. Janeway faced her down and won, though it would've been like swatting a bug (species 8472 or not). Data pretty much did the same thing in the First Contact movie. He played the queen like a rube. I just don't buy that Q's interference fooled the hivemind into fearing Humans were so advanced. Don't get me wrong, but we're not. Our need for cooperation and community while remaining fiercely individual would not be valued by it. Nor would philosophy like IDIC. Edit: I think I get it. The queen was really just a stupid retcon.
The Borg did assimilate people from the chunk of ship they cut out of the Enterprise in their first encounter. I wouldn't say that they were only interested in the ship.
Thank you for the wonderful Star Trek video! What an outstanding show you make here Lore Reloaded! Please keep up the great word my RUclips friends! Best Borg show ever my friend! Please Paramount Plus and CBS give more Star Trek! Like Section 31 + A SHow about USS Titan And Captain Riker!
on the subject of why hue caused problems with the collective and not picard: i think it's because he wasn't assimilated, he was re-integrated. it's kinda like a prion disease, humans assimilate proteins in order to grow, we break proteins down into amino acids and recombine them into human proteins, however we only do that if the proteins in question aren't human, if they are our body assumes they are our own proteins and leave them alone. if you eat the brains of a human (and the fact that we know this is perhaps reflects badly on humanity) our body will see the human neural proteins and just put them to use immediately without breaking them down, so you will get these proteins that don't match, and don't fit, and they will serve as a template for other proteins so they know how to fold and the person will go crazy and die. picard was assimilated, but hue was not.
One thing i've been wondering for a while now is what species in star trek are immune to the borg assimilation like the Undine/Species 8472, I would believe that the Tholians would be one those species considering how alien they are to most species in star trek and the fact that they live at 404 °F.
The answer to your earlier posed questions are not a matter of Trek in-world logic. I think it's more likely that the writers and creators of the show hadn't yet fully fleshed out this new 'species'.
I read somewhere there was an IRL soft reboot with the Borg between 'Q-Who' and 'The Best of Both Worlds'. The writers completely changed the motivations of the Borg. They even had a quick line in 'Best of Both Words' to smooth it over. Lt. Cmdr Elizabeth Paula Shelby : I thought they weren't interested in human life forms. Only our technology. Capt. Picard : That priority seems to have changed
You really postulate some fresh theories for me at least. I love Trek, but don't get into the online debates. These videos really make re-watching each series for the 100th time more rewarding.
Hey... Maybe Unimatrix 0 is a direct result of The Queen. She is obviously acting as an individual personality and it would be clever to say that she was a mutation in the evolution of the Borg species. Although I would say that the Borg could just take Starfleet officers and the collective is through subspace so it doesn't matter if they are in the Delta Quadrant. You also keep acting like the Borg would act like humans when... no they wouldn't.
The Borg queen, I think, operates like a queen of bees commanding drones. She needs a male "super drone" if you will, in order to reproduce a new queen, after which the male is discarded. Which could be why she wanted Picard as Locutus, and when that backfired, wanted Datacutus. Then that backfired...
@@JoshuaMarshallofficial It made no sense in the story for that Janeway to act like she didnt want to be caught when that appeared to be the entire point.It was bad writing.
@@DavidLemmo That is a lie.The queen would have caught her and brought her in anyway and Janeway acted scared before the queen ever saw her. The whole point of janeway being there was to get assimilated which makes her being afraid of being caught horrible writing. She did put up enough resistance by hiding right next to her.That alone made the queen take the bait and the new technology.
28:43 I always liked the closed loop theory. Otherwise why would the Borg go to Earth then time travel. Just time travel in a random location with no opposition then travel to Earth after going to the past.
15:13 The Borg's strength is based on their advanced tech and they know it. Them doing everything to retrieve damaged drones could simply be to retain the tech the drone is made from from falling into enemy hands?
It was the best concept for a series, for sure. Naturally, it could have been better, like all the others. The writers could have worked harder to make the episodes more cohesive; an evolutionary process
@Lore Reloaded, isn’t there some, beta canon references, that explained the pronoun issues you reference? Mainly in Star Trek legacy, during the assimilation of species 125, the Borg found an individual female, that “displayed a mental prowess, enabling them to sift through thousands of thoughts and bring order to chaos”. Wouldn’t it make sense that the Borg would clone or modify the females of her species, to be like her, in order to process information, inadvertently/accidentally making her become the Borg’s pseudo-personality, For lack of a better term. Therefore, the Queen would referred to herself as an individual because she doesn’t think of herself separate from the Borg collective, essentially she is the Borg collective consciousness. Given what we know about how the Borg store, every individual personality. This would allow the Queen to jump in/out any female drone form from her original species, explaining multiple cast changes and eliminating a number of obvious physical weakness that a Queen would present.
I think I have a theory that fairly neatly explains a lot of the problems pointed out with the queen. The queen was part of the borg for quite some time, but was a part of the collective, a central processor of sorts. Then hugh comes back and starts spreading individuality, and even manages to infect the queen. The queen separates that cube from the collective and believes she saved the borg, unaware that she was now acting as individual, from this point on she continues to become more and more individual while continuing to believe she is merely leading the borg as she is supposed to. The interaction with hugh scared her and thus she (and the rest of the borg by proxy) begin to act more paranoid. She develops obsessions with 7 of 9 and Janeway, causing the collective to behave in less than perfectly reasonable ways when dealing with them. Her delusion that she was unaffected is the cause of her generally talking as an individual while sometimes talking as a mouth piece for the collective. Her delusion of being unaffected prevents her from realizing the threat her own existence poses to the collective, while her administrative powers prevent the collective from doing anything to stop her or correct the problem
My thoughts? The Borg didn't seem to have nano technology, conversion using nannite, until they came across the federation. Did that tech completely disappear. Or was that from another society?
Great video. Thanks! I submit that Amus is the Borg's failed attempt to assimilate the Founders. The Founders were able to shed this contamination. But unable to kill a Founder being, quarantined it far away in Alpha quadrant. 🤔🤔
First what I personally believe and accept is that the cube which was sent in first contact is vastly outdated and is in fact responding the distress call from the Arctic 1 from the ENT Regeneration era (mid 22nd century) making it a 200 year old cube. Most likely the closest ship at that given time, it’s primary function was salvage and retrieval and not actually invasion - hence the docking port. Which also explains why it has the sphere inside, most likely a damaged sphere picked up en route which couldn’t be brought back and was taken along for the ride as it would have been inefficient to turn back. The Borg distress call form turn “future” and the potentiality of acquiring future Borg tech has now taken priority. We have to assume the cube has been through a lot after 200 years at warp and has likely taken a beating along the way. On top of which the age of the cube would also account for the “vulnerability”. Upon arrival at the old coordinates of the Arctic One and failure to retrieve any remnants there was a change of plans. The queen assigned another Queen to assume control (as we are now clearly aware there can be multiple queens at any one time and said queens can be reproduced at will as evidenced by her dying in Dark Frontier and pops back in to existence at endgame etc.) of the cube, her purpose; retrieval of the future Borg tech by any means necessary. That’s what I believe queens are, they’re there to take over in situations in which the ship(s) could be severed from the collective like going back in time. She in turn ordered a sphere to be outfitted for time travel and planned to go retrieve the Borg drones from their source the 22nd century. So the battle ensued and the cube slugged its way through multiple perimeters of fleets, thinking it had plenty of time to finished the sphere modifications before the cube reached a critical damage threshold. Unfortunately the arrival of the enterprise forced the queen to expedite her plans and rush the sphere. The cube wasn’t destroyed by the enterprise, it in-fact self destructed as stated by 7 of 9 when the cube is critically damaged all of its vital technology self destructs. She ordered the cube to self destruct whilst it still had this was also done to give the sphere breathing room and allow it to freely make a temporal incursion without interference. Had it done it whilst the cube was still up the federation’s ship would swarm it and destroy it. The plan actually worked, the ships all scattered and the sphere snuck back in time. Having had to hastily make the temporal calculations the queen made a miscalculation and ended up further back than intended. Making the best of the situation she adapted her plan and begin bombing the general vicinity of the federation launch site. Once again upon arrival of the Enterprise she was force to adapt again knowing the sphere was no match for the Sovereign. Her new plan was to repeat history and send a new distress signal. Theres also the theory that they could just be sending disposable ships once in a while on suicide aka reconnaissance missions to engage the federation and effectively ‘absorb’ all the new tech data, weapons frequencies, ship designs and also generally keep the Federation on the Blackfoot and keeping themselves up to date, forcing them to always be recovering and preventing them from turtling etc to make sure they’re not surprised by any new technology they might have invented between encounters. That would also make a ton of sense.
I do this a lot as well. I think it's because they're both named after famous satellites- I remember 'the one that's named after a satellite', forgetting that there's actually two.
The Borg: "Whats a Hero unit?"
*See's Picard do impossible things*
Borg "We need that"
They can't play Warhammer 40K because you need at least on command unit.
@@erikgreen4344
Not necessarily. Apart from the fact that the game now allows for different detachment types with different organizations, the Imperial Guard actually have command options that aren't independent characters in the form of a command platoon.
VestedUTuber that changed if you play 8th were you need a hero in a detachment,
@@stephenlucas8836
Good to hear that Astra Militarum is now unplayable without uniques or allies, then, since their only generic HQ units are command squads.
@@erikgreen4344 borg queen?
Regarding Borg collecting their dead: I always got the impression it was because they didn't want their technology to fall into enemy hands for tactical reasons, rather than them caring for each other
I just realized something else: Borg are obviously Steel-Type, so shouldnt they be weak to Fire-Type-Attacks like Phaser?
Also, if Phaser are Fire-Type, are the Federation Fire-Type Pokemon?!
Heck, they even wear Red if they are powerful now that i think about it!!!
Slevin Channel either you are on the wrong video or this is a bad and cringe joke🙄
@@slevinchannel7589 Assuming they didnt use personal shields then yes fire or heat type damage would be effective - especially on the organic parts :P
As well as that, resources are resources. Though the Borg have shown themselves to be willing to treat resources extremely wastefully, maybe they were just making a point for the sake of the characters in the shows ("We have so much stuff we can throw away entire Cubes like they're bottle caps"). I'd generally assume that a race like the Borg would recycle basically everything just for the sake of efficiency.
Also, @Slevin Channel, the Borg are definitely weak to Fighting type attacks - it's astonishing how often a race of cyborgs who can shrug off a direct blast from a phaser rifle are then immediately taken out by being smacked in the face with the stock of said phaser rifle. Honestly, I think if you could get a Klingon boarding party onto a Cube (backed up by some serious tech support) they could probably capture the thing.
@@austinbate5107 lmao
"Part of the crew, part of the ship." - Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End. This rings true for the Borg.
Voyager was kinda Second Place of all Fanchises if you consider just how trashy things like Enterprise and DS9 are.
Better than DS9, better than many 'Picard', better than many Shows.
If you ignore the inconsistency, it's definetly Number 2 or 3 of all Shows.
@@slevinchannel7589 voyager was so far under ds9 it’s not even close! You could rename Star Trek voyager to Star Trek Holodeck adventures….just coz you like votager and dislike ds9 doesn’t mean you’re right…you’ve been told this in multiple commemts on this video alone on different commemts. Why would we ignore consistency? If the show is inconsistent them it’s not a good show on the whole….you’re basically saying ‘ if you ignore how bad a lot of the episodes are, then this is the best show’ it’s an oxymoron voyager for me is dead last with absolutely no worries!
clippy or bob
The Borg Queen is just a really advanced Recovery Wizard Tool. An unknown encounter introduced the Borg to Windows 3.1, and the rest is history.
Legends lost to time speak of the name of the queen... Kaspersky Norton McAfee.
Borg Queen is the OS of the collective.
I didn't find the Borg that confusing, at least early on (TNG)
Its biomechanics. Basically a giant organism. With the addition of deductive reasoning.
For example, the presence of a foreign body inside the collective is meaningless. Until it demonstrated a threat, then it responds quickly and decidedly. Further, a drone itself is unimportant, but if a drone is killed, that's a threat. Something is now dangerous, retrieve drone, deny information, analyze how or what harmed it.
To me, the Borg are terrifying because of the marriage of the biological imperative with the logical.
What if a bacteria could excereise reason?
They aren't "intelligent" as we would undersrand it, but they are "aware"
As in they can, and do, immediately seek to learn from an experience and immediately move to change to compensate. Regardless of any philosophical or moral consideration.
They are a horror of the will to live mixed with the curiosity of self awareness.
Honestly their conception to me is far more terrifying then the cartoon villain they were eventually written to be.
"They are a horror of the will to live mixed with the curiosity of self awareness" - well I guess this could describe humanity... :)
Here’s an idea: what if they weren’t that truly interested in assimilation of humanity, but were very interested in humanity’s links to the Q?
Unless Q somehow prevented them from knowing he was involved, then assimilation of even a single crew member would tell them there was an entity behind the strange feats the borg witnessed. Attacking humanity might reveal more information about this entity.
Here's an idea: what if they weren't that truly interested in assimilation of humanity's link to the Q?
Unless Q somehow prevented them from knowing he was involved, then assimilation of even a single crew member would tell them there was an entity behind the strange feats the borg witnessed. Attacking humanity might reveal more information about this entity.
The Borg also took out the Elorians who were so good that the Q agreed to a cease fire with them. The Borg are familiar with the Q continuum AND how to beat them.
That would explain the single cube attacks they keeps sending against earth. Instead of conquering them, they're trying to get a reaction from the Q by poking their pet, maybe?
It's possible the Queen always existed but she didn't have a physical form until sometime in the series. She could have been just a powerful program that guided what the Borg did but then at some point, maybe when Hue introduced individuality to them, the Borg decided that having a someone with a little more individuality would allow the Borg to understand humans which would allow them a better chance at defeating them.
Q realy saved the federation by sending the Enterprise to meet the Borg. The Borg had already been nibbeling at Federation and Romulan borders and were well aware of the Federation due to the Raven and the events at first contact and their encounter with Archer. Q just evened out the playfield by making the UFP aware of the Borg.
You can't bring up later established stuff to make you point. Raven is from Voyager and Voyager doesn't respect lore together with First Contact. It is either First Contact and Enterprise is canon or TNG is canon, it can't be both.
@@Zodroo_Tint what are you on ? voyager is canon
The Enterprise ep with First Contact Borg were disconnected from the main collective, they even say that the signal they sent would take over a hundred years to reach the delta quadrant. Even in first contact they were trying to build a beacon to contact the borg in that time. So it wouldn’t have made the borg aware of the federation from that.
@@BangingMash Yeah... that hundred or so years... that was to coincide with the TNG timeline. Granted, it's reconning canon established in TNG but it's not incompatible. Especially when you take into account that the borg had been scooping up UFP and romulan colonies on the very edges of their territory. The borg were coming as of 'the neutral zone'. Thanks to Q, the feds at least knew.
4 years later.. and rewatched, this is still the best video on the borg.
I think Q sent the Enterprise to encounter the Borg with the intention of rescuing them all along, but only if Picard humbled himself. Q never wanted to be on the ship, he wanted to test Starfleet to see if they could admit they were wholly unprepared for what awaited them, and warn them of what they had to look forward to if they continued recklessly exploring space. Q was acting altruistically, albeit in a way befitting his smug nature.
You could argue that farming is exactly what the borg were doing to the species we see in the voyager episode "Dauntless" They were a highly advanced species that had been "Fending off" the borg for centuries. After the war with Species 8472 they simply couldn't afford that luxury anymore and went full on assimilating that species to help replenish numbers and resources.
If you watched TNG, you would remember that when they were talking about disconnecting Picard from the Borg, Data says that the Borg remove components from the Borg to separate them from the collective. The Borg then self destruct. They don't collect the body.
yes dear Timmy I love you so much
I think the speed of assimilation depends on the character having plot armour
lol right right. hey at least star trek makes a decent effort towards continuity.....at least it used too. I think anyone who appreciates star trek can agree this jj abrams star trek is trash. sure the special effects are lightyears improved, but a polished turd still smells like shit
Plot armor is stronk. Plot armor makes them go.
Incopetent Writers.
Incompetent riters.
Writers Incompetent.
Tnetepmocin Sretirt.
Maybe their low Effiency (that Seven is so extreeemly proud of, by the way) is what makes it so the Borg havent already won?
I mean, think about it: They're better than current Star Fleet, but vastly inferior to the 29.Century Star Fleet. That's laughable, if you know what i mean. They're millions of years old, maybe billions of years old, according to Guinen. Is that how you write her name? Ah, whatever.
The point is, no matter how you look at it, the Borg should be better than they are, but they aren't, so i assume 9472 is just a good example for what always will happen if you're THAT agressive: People will hunt you down.
@@slevinchannel7589 "That Seven is always so extremely proud of" - people always overestimate their abilities in the compartments where they are lacking the most.
I agree... Given the time they have been around, the civilizations that they assimilated, and their sheer current numbers as their story opens, in Universe, the Borg tech should be improving leaps and bounds over the other cultures in the Trek Canon.
But they lack insight, diversity of point of view and related differential analysis and for all its vaunted power, their collective conscience doesn't seem much brighter than a moderately gifted, single, isolated individual of a "lower" species. It seems more akin to an overgrown cerebellum than to a super-conscience.
If we put all together, inefficiency is too light a word to describe their results.
When Seven says "our thoughts are one", she means "You just told me how to disable your shield" to the queen
Everything after Generations is happening in Picard's head. When he was picked up by the Ribbon, he gained the ability to make "Reality" what ever he wanted. He's still in the Ribbon.
I thought it was all written by Benjamin Cysco
Good but I prefer Q and how he said the court judgement will be ongoing , also how the finale went now...I could be wrong BUT the Picard season 2 trailer has Q saying "Welcome to the end of the path not taken" perhaps its been Q since the end of TNG series playing with Picard as he says the path not taken and that the Q judgement of humanity was ever going.
I'm in the ribbon right now! (your mom is so hot when she grunts)
You and I had the exact same headcanon about the Queen: a means to integrate the concept of individuality into the collective after the Hugh individuality "virus" forced them to adapt. Personally, I like the idea that The Queen is a program running within a sort of Borg immune system where the concept of individuality can be localized (so that only one Borg or one Borg per ship is affected at any given time), and as soon as one queen is killed a new one manifests to take its place.
As for why Picard didn't have the same effect? Simple. Whatever mechanism is used to remove individuality is activated as part of the assimilation process. Once the individual is assimilated, The Borg wouldn't have any reason to repeat the process. So by reintroducing individuality after the assimilation process had already happened, the Federation basically created a Trojan Horse that the Borg were initially unequipped to handle.
PEOPLE WERE ASSIMILIATED ON WOLF 359!!! Get your Facts right!!
i think you sir are very smart. and i think this is reasonable and very well thought out. i think this not only works but fits well, and explains a lot! i love it and its awesome and your awesome!
I look at it more that the concept of individuality is destroyed before you're connected to the collective, and thus, since Hugh wasnt assimilated a second time, he merely was reconnected to the Collective, that's why individuality was allowed to spread
Yep, already converted Borg are auto listed as a “trusted device/installer”.
That's exactly what happened in the Unimatrix Zero episode of voyager. Some Borg archived individuality. The queen was unable to access their thoughts (or "hear their voices" as she called it) but still knew where they were and destroyed the vessels they were on. So it makes perfect sense that the queen is some kind of sub program of the collective, allowed some individuality to protect the whole from said individuality.
Theory: the Borg sphere in "First Contact" was easily disabled because it was made of 21st century oak and maple hardwood, therefore allowing the ship to be carbon dated.
@doctorwho0077 The ocampa are even worse....with just one offspring per female^^ Do your calculations on that system :D
I think that you are all missing the fact that too many idiot writers write the line "was carbon dated" when speaking of substances which have no carbon to be "carbon dated". Wood has carbon and can be carbon dated, gold can never be "carbon dated" (looking at Jackie Chan's Operation Condor 1991.)
Lol, I like it. Some people take this way too seriously 😂💃👍
@Főfasírozó interesting that your comment dates you as born in 2009.
@@bartistclord1916 Also Time Cop!
Here's my theory: the franchise has had multiple writers who had trouble maintaining consistency, and Enterprise, desperate for ratings, included among other things the Borg even though it wouldn't make sense. The Borg then suffer the greatest problem: villain decay.
That seems like a very well-thought-out and the probable reason for the change in the Borg. Well said!
Actually, the Borg in Enterprise were far better written and utilized that they were in all of Voyager. The Borg in Enterprise have been shown to be the least consistent among all the other Borg of the franchise.
@@SwankyKitteh82 So you're saying the Borg on Voyager were a stinkier turd than the Borg on Enterprise?
Pretty much yes. I dunno if you can even fix that mess. I tend to think you can’t.
@@jonahfalcon1970 Yes. Voyager actively retconned the Borg on a regular basis. Whereas in Enterprise Archer and crew never even got to know their species name. So the timeline we see in TNG episode "Q Who" still stands.Nothing lore-wise was damaged by the Borg episodes in Ent.
I mean, in one Voy episode we see a Borg drone bend over to use a computer console. You're telling me, that a species with a mass hive mind and ships directly interlinked with that hive mind, still has to use viewscreens and type on consoles, lol?
Besides Guinan, you're forgetting Seven of Nine; a contemporary with Picard and the Enterprise. She and her parents had been assimilated at least twenty years before the events portrayed on TNG...
I think the borg used shields in some situations for a pretty simple reason: Flying around in space at very fast but sub-warp speeds means a lot of stuff is going to slam into your ship, and with things going that fast it has the potential to do a lot of damage. Shields would be the most sensible way to avoid the problem completely. So they werent great shields, they were just good enough for the purpose. Not intended for combat use
Your theory about assimilation so far leaves out all the Guinan dialog about her race being destroyed and assimilated by the Borg. There's no impression whatsoever that those events happened recently as far as I'm concerned. They had time to wander the stars, recover, and move on. Especially in light of Time's Arrow. I think it had to happen before that.
I agree.. and now I am doubting any of statements he makes during the rest of the video
Slade Wilson it happened at least back in the Kirk era. Generations had Guinean as a refugee... presumably from the borg? That’s a whole other piece that doesn’t really fit neatly though because she was also on earth thousands of years in the old west times.
@@joshuma32 she was just visiting I believe.. But even so.. It is possible that the borg's assimilation of her system took place as far back as that
I get the feeling that the assimilation of the El Aurians happened far closer to the events of Generations. I always thought that Guinan visited Earth in the 19th Century of her own volition, and that her people had not yet been assimilated. However, that still leaves the question of why Starfleet didn't know about that Borg invasion. Guinan and the other refugees should have warned the Federation about the Borg long ago. Also, given the extremely long El Aurian life span and how well-travelled they seem to have been, the Borg should have accumulated a vast amount of knowledge about the history of the Alpha and Beta quadrants from them alone. Out of all those species they found out about, were the El Aurians the only ones they deemed worthy of assimilation at that time? Is that why they waited so long to return and take the colonies at the Neutral Zone?
@@shibolinemress8913 the Al aurans are from the Delta quadrant, Borg territory. While Guinan and her race travelled alot there is no reason to believe the Borg would bother traveling all the way to the Alpha quadrant when they had plenty of races nearby still to assimilate. Certain Starfleet elements likely knew of a hostile race obliterating life in the Delta. They were at least a 30 40 year travel time (as far as they knew) away.
It wasn't until the Enterprise was brought a mere 2 years away and encountered them that they knew they were that close.
(Edit: This is how I interpreted what the Queen said in First Contact. Yay Voyager...)
The borg queen sometimes acting as though she is an individual and sometimes an avatar is not as contradictory as it seems. Admittedly, this is my own head canon, but I see the queen as an emergent consciousness from the collective itself. Each drone in the collective acts like a neuron within the brain, and the interactions between the drones result in a super consciousness that has developed on top the neurological traffic that is the collective. The main difference between the queen and ourselves is that she is able to listen and control the traffic between the drones, whereas we cannot listen to our individual neurons. The body we see is not a separate drone that has maintained it's individuality and can interface with the borg, nor is it is just a robotic avatar spouting the aggregate will of the collective. It is instead an avatar of the personality that has emerged from the collective itself.
The Queen says as much and it is reinforced by her being assembled each time. Great explanation with the neurons, etc.
Ok, I was just wondering what to watch instead of sleeping, thank you for this lore delivery just in time for me to have a sleepless night
I'm doing the same thing right now XD it just turned 4 in he morning
Am I the only one that now WANTS to see the Queen riding a unicorn conquering middle earth?
Go commission a artist on deviant art or fiver 🤔
Yes, borg Queen with Pinhead and Deadpool all riding unicorns. What’s the premise of the story? Doesn’t matter. But I may make it into a children’s story. A is for apple. B is for Borg, and Q is for Queen. The Borg Queen is a special Borg. Are you special too? And P is for Pinhead. G is for Gash and O is for Order. Pinhead is the high Priest of the Order of the Gash which means he is a leader. Would you like to be a leader? D is for Deadpool. He is a superhero...wow, I can make Hellraiser Cybermen and leadership into a children’s story, but get stuck with Deadpool. Something is definitely wrong about this or me. Gonna go talk to my shrunken head about this. 😎🤯👶🍿
I've always envisioned that the Queen is a separate, connected intelligence to the Cube's (it's also important to remember that each Cube is canonically, in Alpha content, a separate intelligence to all the others, they just cooperate). It's not necessarily in charge, but it, as a singular unit rather than a hive mind, has a unique and valued perspective and may have different priorities over the Cube.
If I were to guess the timeline for this, they were probably introduced after the rescue of Locutus, as that ploy would have been caught easily by a individual, and Picard proving to be tactically vital to the Federation victory. In ny head, Queens were introduced to give an individual perspective for a Cube.
About the Locutus rescue: possibly, if not for the elements of the First Contact plot stating a previous connection between the two. Now whether Picard talking about the desire of the Borg for him to willingly “give himself” being over to the Borg as a hive (collective/royal “you” ) or to the Queen herself (the individual “you”) is the point of debate which may be at the heart of this. Not that there were any other “canon-ball” sized holes in the First Contact plot… like an obvious lack of dilithium, or the huge amount of cultural contamination in Bozeman, or anything else…All things being equal, it and the other Star Trek/Ahab story of STTWOK were probably the two best films overall, with two of the best villains; but both had plot holes you could fly a Voth city ship through.
One thing is unshakable canon, Seven had terrible, selfish parents. Those two deserved every bad thing that happened to them.
Indeed
tigerbread78 you have to say the same about the Enterprise D’s crew for dragging their families on dangerous missions.
2BitUser, I assumed the family’s were there as the federation assumed no one would fire on a ship with children on board.
Paladin Boyd hmm sure thing. It never stopped anyone from firing on Ent D. Newly encountered species wouldn’t know they had children onboard. If that were the rationale why have a battle bridge in order to separate and let families escape?
Al Maari's Disciple no children then you wouldn’t be here to write such dribble.
Great analysis as to why the Borg behaved the way they did in the ST:TNG first encounter, but I honestly don't think the producers thought that far ahead. There's also the other stuff that got retconned, like the novel Probe where it's revealed that the planet of living machines encountered by the Voyager space probe in ST: The Motion Picture that turned it into V'Ger and sent it to assimilate worlds and even assimilate people to create emissaries (like they did with Ilia) were the Borg.
This patches a few plot holes, too.
Q was giving the Federation both a scare and a chance to prove themselves. The Borg Cube wasn't a 'combat cube' but rather an exploration mission... any new technology is of interest to the Borg so even if the Federation was not as advanced in some areas it still had sufficient other points of interest to attract Borg inspection...
I'd say a big part of how the crew got over being assimilated so fast was more just the lack of things they were forced to do on behalf of the Borg. Picard had to go through directly being in charge of destroying an entire fleet of his comrades, Janeway and crew just got to tool around with some fancy cybernetics for a bit.
that and the fact they werent merged within the collectif but kept the individuality
also .. they choose it/knew what was comming, at that point it's not much dif then being hurt physically only and healed
I love Janeway. The fact that she's completely insane just makes her even better.
Voyager was kinda Second Place of all Fanchises if you consider just how trashy things like Enterprise and DS9 are.
Better than DS9, better than many 'Picard', better than many Shows.
If you ignore the inconsistency, it's definetly Number 2 or 3 of all Shows.
@@slevinchannel7589 uhhhh.... deep space nice is pretty loved tho
@@rigby117 Yeah, cause your common human does not know what quality is.
That's why.
@@slevinchannel7589 can u not be square
@@siimkivisild2251 My statement about the common human is right though?
Objectively?
Just cause some realize bad stuff, like Mulan 2019, doesnt change that - if anything, it proves my point. Something needs to be bad beyond redemption so people really 'get it'.
Here's the thing, ever since First Contact I have been struggling with this. The Borg have a "Robocop 2 problem" when it comes to that movie. And everything Borg related afterward had a "Robocop 3 problem".
Here's what I mean.
If you don't understand the source material, the meanings, the themes, the story, then you don't have the ability to make anything as good as the OG, even IF you have access to most of the same talent. And if you don't even have access to the same level of talent as the original on top of everything else, it all goes downhill rather quickly.
The Borg Queen was not created to be a part of the lore, she was created to be a mortal foe that could be defeated easily because the staff were afraid that nobody would understand that the Borg are not a cube of black metal and goth gear and junk, but an implacable force of nature that must be dealt with like a hurricane or a tornado (don't talk to me about weather control, that was a metaphor). They could have made her a part of the lore, as say a reaction to Hugh. Instead she is a fundamental misunderstanding of how social insects and computer networks work.
Afterward, it really becomes a Robo 3 problem because the writers just got lazy, and started to do things on the level of a comic book. It's a real pity, because they had so many options, but in the end Star Trek decided to never let anyone rise above "Space Viking"
This response is correct and should have way more likes.
@@FH-cn3mg Thank you. Anything more to add? I would like to hear your opinions?
The Borg Queen was probably a bizare kind of independant mind the Borg used to fix problems that cannot be seen by the collective
Nah, the Borg Queen was an Identity Politics Third Wave Feminist - Resistance is Futile - Equity for all...
@@hariseldon3786 And the Borg was Roddenberry's way of warning us about the inevitable ultimate outcome of that ideology? One queen ruling over an empire where everyone looks the same, thinks the same, wants the same. All of them equal and at the same time strongly totalitarian to both insiders and outsiders. Pretty brilliant :P
@James Furey No.1 It was said with humorous intent. No. 2 I don't abuse people e.g. call them 'morons' - even if I know they are. So I guess we are coming from different places of thought.
@@Bonez0r absolutely - United Nations Agenda 2030
Central Strategist - probably a concept collected through their assimilations and development
To me, the whole concept of the Borg “queen” makes sense. Essentially, the culmination of the programming that ultimately controls the collective. Therefore “she” has always existed. However, Hugh’s reintroduction and corruption could still have slipped through before the Alpha and Beta quadrants were fully cut off. Therefore, the queen gained a sort of “individuality” as a means of keeping the corruption from infecting the Borg as a whole. All that individuality was simply taken and put into one, the queen.
They purposely added “individuality” to themselves with the creation of Loqutis (aka Borg Picard), so there must have been part of the controlling system that recognized the value of individuality, therefore an individual intelligence acting as the guiding impetus behind the Collective makes sense.
No, she doesn't make any sense and ruins the Eldritch horror feeling that Borg originally had. There was no need to have anyone to control Borg. Actually automatic program would be fully functional without anyone telling what to do.
@@Tespri So, being absorbed into a mental and physical hegemony, turned into a meaningless cog that is easily replaced or repurposed, physically and mentally reshaped, is not an eldritch horror to you if there is an insect-like Queen behind the Collective?
@@nvfury13 that is not different from totalitarian state. With being like queen it can be still reasoned. With silent force of death it would be true horror.
@@Tespri The Queen is what always resisted attempts to reason, the Collective itself was brutally logical, survival of the whole it’s only goal. The Collective bargained when needed, she only bargained if she *wanted to* even if that was counter to the best interest of the Collective’s survival.
2 hours of the Borg? I could listen to things about the Borg all day, all week, all month, all year!
18:17 All of the Voyager and First Contact retcons have a far simpler answer: Because Rick Berman and Brennan Braga were hack writers who literally said "To Hell with Continuity!", as in, they had an extraordinary contempt for the very concept of continuity and didn't really give a damn what was established, but what looked flashy.
It is impressive to try to reverse engineer a reason to tie all these changes in the Borg lore together as a thought experiment, but you're already putting infinitely more effort into the writing than the bloody writers did.
They Klingons were not at Wolf 359, but we know a Klingon fleet did fight a cube. Likely it was the fleet the Klingons sent, engaged separately from the Federation forces at Wolf 359.
I have to admit it makes sense after all borg cubes do all look alike
Borg don't use shields, Federation ships do. That is why they survived the first shot. It was made clear they wouldn't survive a second one.
They used shields from the first drone. Ironically, the FX was better on him too as the phaser tracked across the sections.
What really led to the downfall of the Borg was when they assimilated
a human with Dyslexia.
Borg: We are the Borg, futility is resistible.
THIS should have WAY more likes, LOL!
@@nurse425 I agree Jennifer. Unfortunately all the people with Dyslexia who liked it are clicking the Thumb down button.
Star Trek Picard was such a Shame. I can't believe it.
From now on, I'm on the site of the Borg! And i don't like that!
I thought this all along, after Scorpion, Voyager keep the Borg Advancements. After Drone, they had upgrade ship. Voyager isn't your standard Federation vessel. It is now a Borg-Fed hybrid ship. This is why it appears OP in some episodes.
General impression of this video so far:
"Despite Borg's overwhelming superiority in tech, numbers and sheer pig-headedness, Federation manages to out-Stupid and out-MacGuffin the them at every turn"
Your idea that Borg may evolve to one day resemble a conventional nation with government, trade, diplomacy etc, is intriguing. I can imagine them emulating such a system if they reach a conclusion that it better suits their goal than the current setup. How much of that emulation would be functional and how much would be just for show is in itself a big juicy topic to speculate on.
They do, remember the borgs who got disconnected from the collective? They were called the coorporative
@@nerdytechs514 I meant orthodox Borg, the ones still beholden to their primary Collective but decide one day that it will be more efficient to go about it the different manner and start pretending to be a interstellar empire with all the attributes of such, implementing usefull traits of a conventional state and even going so far as to emulate ones they don't need so as to appear less repulsive to outsiders they want to manipulate.
I imagine they would eventually turn into something more akin to a cult of knowledge and technology when they realize they can get everything they want with a bit of good publicity without the need to waste resources on military power, eventually turning into a repository of galactic knowledge that people who join them bring in. Perhaps even encouraging new members to go through the process of completing education in specific subjects in their home governments, then immigrate to become assimilated and complete the process of becoming true Borg.
Headcanon: Q didn't just send the Enterprise to J25. He sent them back in time, changing the priorities of the Borg from capturing technology, to attaining perfection via a fusion of all worthy organic life and synthetic technology.
It fixes so many plotholes :)
They already had assimilated beings, though.
Which is exactly how the Borg Cube Q threw the Enterprise at was able to regenerate to full strength right as the bridge crew were staring at the damages they inflicted on the Borg Cube, @@joshuaperrine2019. The entirety of the Borg Collective onboard were channeling some sort of bio-electrical energy that literally repaired their somewhat severely damaged Cube in just a few moments. This ability alone would of kept the Borg way OP into Voyager's series had this ability not been retconned out of existence.
I always assumed that the main ‘design’ purpose of the Borg queen was as a way of compressing the info of the drones on her cube so that the whole collective across the galaxy could be kept apprised of strategy. Presumably it’s easier to send the consciousness of one monarch over sub-space (or whatever FTL comms the Borg use) rather than a whole cube of drones very far and maintain signal quality, I just thought it was a bandwidth thing. I don’t think it’s ever stated that when a drone is part of the collective it can hear literally every Borg in the galaxy. I assumed that the queens would have their own smaller collective and that the drones (as well as their combined consciousness) act on an algorithm that is generated when a queen orders something. This would mean that a drone only hears the thoughts of every drone assigned to the same queen and their queens orders (and presumably news from the queen about what the rest of the collective is up to.)
The encounter with Borg tech can explain why Starfleet seems far more advanced in the new movies and TV shows. And it's no surprise that time bureau of the future federation didn't intervene: it has a good impact on the federation.
I always thought that the queen wasn't an individual but she just had a unique role almost as if she was like the manager to every Borg cube, so she could maintain order and efficiency, but she would still be part of the collective. Maybe even she is allowed a bit of individuality due to the nature of her job being a matter of opinion sometimes
As for the Queen - i think they were implemented by the borg to combat the tampering made by Hugh (and starfleet). Hugh brought disorder to the collecitve and it had massive impact on the borg so the queens were introduced to combat and limit that phenomena later on - basically the borg adapted to the situation. Prior to Hugh there was no need for "Queen's" to exist.
Initially the borg were purging the individuality at the moment of assimilation - so later on there was no need to purge it later on as they assumed there was nothing to purge later on. There were no mechanism in place to check if that was the case later on (at least prior to Hugh). That is why when Hugh rejoined the collective - he was seen already as borg and assumed he was up to spec - and that is why he wasnt checked for "individuality" again. Basically that was a design flaw in the borg at the time - Which was corrected by making the queens - their role was to check the collective and purge anything that was not cohevise and was introducing chaos to the order-- You can get snippets of that functionality in the Dark frontier when one by one Queen was locating "the infected" drones to restore cohesion of the collective.
For eg from programming point of view - the hugh was an unexpected (unverifided) variable that was indtroduced to a system that had no check at the time to verify if that variable was up to proper specs. thus it crashed the program when it was introduced. (the system was checking the input variables but it wasnt checking them later on if their values were still correct).
It was like trying to input float variable into integer based subrutine. it would crash it beacuse the float was unexpected.
dead drones = spare parts, thats the only way i can see the borg caring about their dead/injured, but discovery... it missed so many chances to get really deep and tie itself into to the older series, everytime it skimmed the surface of doing it, it ran away screaming
I disagree. I think it's a mix of technological recovery, taking advantage of a situation, bodily recovery on par with hive-mind species like ants, and a smidge of revenge. When one suffers, all suffer. Any crime imposed one one individual drone is a crime committed against the entire collective. It's one thing to punch one person. But to assault trillions? All at once? Unforgivable.
When 7 says we are one, she means that she knew what the queen knew and how to escape the whole time.
13:39 "Once Picard was assimilated, they determined that it was Q that did it and thus decided just to continue on into the Federation."
Why? If the Borg knew everything Picard knew, they also must have realized that the Federation did not have the technology to move ships as fast as Q did, and that Earth was still not worth assimilating. So why then did they proceed to Earth?
Once again, a fan thinks about things far beyond what the writers did... Happens to every great fandom.
They should want to assimilate Q.
@@blm2357 while it's pretty clearly impossible for the Borg to assimilate a Q, I would love to see what the Borg do with that kind of power without the ego of a Q.
I think that the difference in how Picard vs Huge effect the Borg is more to do with safe guards that put in place based on the risk. The process of assimilation removes the individuality and puts safe guards in place until the new drone is deemed safe.
When an existing drone is reconnected after being disconnected for some reason, the neuro nodes are already in place and there by can bypass any security.
I think the borg are a good foil to the federation, but an even better foil for Picard specifically.
He so prides himself on being able to use diplomacy to resolve situations. Holds true to the idea that to be a spacefairing civilization, you must be capable of reason.
But the Borg have a trait that he can't overcome, no matter how skillful a diplomat he is; they're _implacable._
Picard is forced to come to terms with this, but by exhausting the usual diplomatic avenues he makes both his crew and the Federation vulnerable. If he'd been a bit more klingon and gone all out with the first attack, the cube could well have been damaged beyond repair, they aren't invincible after all.
Wolf 359 happened as a direct result of Picard's inability to see his enemy as implacable. To give them no quarter when he had the upper-hand.
In First Contact, you really get to see the end of this arc. A man filled with anger and regret about this. Well aware he's to blame for those killed at Wolf 359. Fully aware of what the Borg represent.
Janeways Morality is completly Warped, as evidend by 'Night' in Season 5.
In this Episode, glaring Insanity is obvious: Not only is she able to regret sacrificing 150 People to save a Species (the Ocampa), but no, furthermore, she really considers getting a species going extinct for 150 people to not have a MINOR discomfort.
That's insane.
Her Federation Morals seem to be extremly weak. She would absolutely consider wiping out Species for the sake of her little Crew.
...And the Episode Tuvix... was... intense... yeah, intense...
But ultimately, she DID sacrifice those 150 crew in order to save a species. Right?
Feeling sad about losing her crew is understandable. She followed her Training and Principles. Regretting loss of life is hardly dishonorable.
I agree that Janeway's morals are warped, but not so much in this instance.
I'm upset that she killed the 'Borg god' which was the Omega Particle after is synchronized its mass into a 'perfect' crystalline structure.
Tuvix was a creep. Having the power to bring back TWO members who did NOT subject themselves to become 1 was an easy answer. In fact it’s just like you said, he should of given up himself to save the others. Needs of the many right?? But he didn’t! He whined and complained and tried to turn the crew against her. It was creepy
@@k.t.1641 Forcing an individual to sacrifice themselves is different from an individual sacrificing themselves. And I think a lot of people would say "not my problem" instead of sacrificing themselves
I'd really like to see a Borg vs. Dominion encounter.
Rest in peace Hugh.
Rest in peace Icheb.
lol snowflake
I know Icheb got bent over a barrel by fate but what happened to Hugh?
@@Blasted2Oblivion Narissa killed Hugh with a thrown knife to the neck after he refused to give up Picard and activating the queencell, which was both a treaty violation and an act of insurrection. =,(
@@bigemugamer that sucks. I liked Hugh.
I can't even tell you how much I enjoyed this.
I can't even tell you how much I enjoyed this.
@@cutegamergrill5698 I can tell you that I enjoyed your mom very much!
The Borg isn't really changed by the Federation, it is changed by Q.
Perhaps the Borg Collective is run on incredibly simple algorithms. The Collective will simply assimilate anything and everything. The Queen, however, is an individual who regulates this instinct with her own mind. In other words, she sets the goals of the Collective. However, having her own mind free of the Collective, she has an ego and is unable to see her own flaws, especially given the enormous power that control of the Borg gives her. In essence, she's a narcissist and the Collective can't do anything to change this because it doesn't have an ego, so it can't be self-reflective, which also explains why the Queen has to become aware of freed drones.
Voyager was kinda Second Place of all Fanchises if you consider just how trashy things like Enterprise and DS9 are.
Better than DS9, better than many 'Picard', better than many Shows.
If you ignore the inconsistency, it's definetly Number 2 or 3 of all Shows.
Why assume that the borg queen where there.......in body? Because Picard said? She is the colective. She was there. She is in every borg. She doesnt need to be there to be there. The will of the colective was with Picard.
Yeah but this female lead in the new Picard series is their daughter, (I really hope...maybe), and some things are only done the old fashioned way.
@@RavenCeV we don't know that yet
Talking about the technology from the sphere from First Contact not being utilised approaches the issue from the perspective that Enterprise is a pure prequel. But I prefer to think of it as a timeline altered by the events of First Contact. For example, in The Motion Picture we see the previous ships named Enterprise, which doesn't include NX-01. This can be explained because Troi told Cochrane that their ship was called Enterprise, and so the NX-01 of that timeline is called Enterprise to honor it.
This would make sense except discovery. Control was made by section 31 and used nano tech. Borg tech from enterprise being used and connecting to prime timeline more concretly.
I've always felt that the Cube Q sent the Enterprise to was probably the closest one, so it makes sense that it would be a light recon cube as opposed to a full blown vessel of war.
When the American Constitution was written they basically said that Congress could make choices, but they need the President to make quick choices. Perhaps the Collective could make choices, but the Queen was needed sometimes to make quick choices.
I pray that Q shows up in the Picard series. Only Q can rectify the absolutely unacceptable break in canon. J.J. included.
I hope so too, but that jackass Alex Kurtzman is so stupid he would most likely say " Who is Q?" Sad but true, maybe my friend you should write Star Trek, just to show those idiots how it is done, damn I miss good Star Trek.
Orville is the best proof that star trek can still really work nowadays, you just have to write the right story, and not any loosely connected plots or plots that last an entire season and where nobody knows what happened in the last episode
Star Trek has been working. Your mind just stopped or it never understood Trek in the first place. You also apparently haven't watched real television, either, because serials are in. Maybe you just need to give it a rest, snowflake.
On the voyager/borg/species 8472 aspect, you're missing the part where they telepathically told Kes they were going to "purge the galaxy", also, Voyager at the time had the most advanced shielding of any star fleet vessel. I agree they probably should have been destroyed with that attack but Borg cubes have no shielding against weapons they haven't adapted to yet.
I know this video is old but i love the series put together like this the most
"...both sides think the other is just spouting propaganda with no value added. ...huh"
Actually made me laugh out loud
If the encounter in Q-Who and BoBW "changed" the Borg to assimilate people, how come they assimilated 7of9's parents 20+ years before the time period of those episodes ?
See, the thing here is this:
Do you side with the inconsistencies of the Borg in TNG (hive mind vs ze queen for example, or black rubber armor vs insect like armor) , or do you side with the retcon/attempt at streamlining (that also wasn't 100% consistent) in the Voyager/Enterprise era ?
Because mashing it all together will not give you the results you think it will .
Hence your theory that doesn't hold up to what was on screen .
Maybe the Borg had to complete the loop in first contact before they could go forward in time 😜
Hey Guys, this is a combination of all of the videos, I removed any content that got me hit with a CBS content ID so the first and second video may seem kind of off, I appreciate your understanding.
Free to pursue things like genesis devices, biogentic weapons, engineering human DNA, develope humans that had telekenetic powers and agressive immune systems. Transphasic torpedoes? Where did that tech come from? You're right. They're pretty open minded about what you can study.
Lore Reloaded don't worry about it man. I think CBS just got too much time on its hands.
How about they have a new queen and call her 6 of 9? She could be a way hotter version of 7 of 9. And make her crazy too with telekinesis powers! ☺
No worries, of course. ☺
Lore Reloaded... If you are in the show runner of a new Star Trek show set in the future. How would you fix (some or most of) the lore inconsistencies and give the Borg “teeth” again?
That's a great idea - that the Cube that Q sent the Enterprise was back in time... I saw the episode recently for the first time in many years and it does look very different on the inside then others that came later, they even had what looked like a more primitive interface with hand emplacements... maybe the Cube was actually in 1100 A.D. - that would be interesting...
You might be onto something there, the german title of that episode is "Zeitsprung mit Q" or "time jump with Q".
Of course there is always the possibility of a bad translation, but it wouldn't hurt to consider that idea.
Great video. Really good points made. I agree.
The Borg were no longer the Borg when the writers invented this Queen. In TNG they were automata, zombies, interchangeable, cells in the hive mind. When they were disabled, they were destroyed. They just kept coming. With the first-time in forever need for 'Locutus of Borg' they become weak. The same cube that destroyed entire fleets with ease is hacked, put to sleep and disintegrates.
Then the whole queen thing brings them down to the level of bullies. Janeway faced her down and won, though it would've been like swatting a bug (species 8472 or not). Data pretty much did the same thing in the First Contact movie. He played the queen like a rube.
I just don't buy that Q's interference fooled the hivemind into fearing Humans were so advanced. Don't get me wrong, but we're not. Our need for cooperation and community while remaining fiercely individual would not be valued by it. Nor would philosophy like IDIC.
Edit: I think I get it. The queen was really just a stupid retcon.
a thicc upload if I say so myself and love your work man
The Borg did assimilate people from the chunk of ship they cut out of the Enterprise in their first encounter. I wouldn't say that they were only interested in the ship.
"Carving us up like a roast" lol ruclips.net/video/Bs173OfGmm4/видео.html
I wonder if, from the Borgs perspective, they saw the people as parts of the ship.
Thank you for the wonderful Star Trek video! What an outstanding show you make here Lore Reloaded! Please keep up the great word my RUclips friends! Best Borg show ever my friend! Please Paramount Plus and CBS give more Star Trek! Like Section 31 + A SHow about USS Titan And Captain Riker!
on the subject of why hue caused problems with the collective and not picard:
i think it's because he wasn't assimilated, he was re-integrated. it's kinda like a prion disease, humans assimilate proteins in order to grow, we break proteins down into amino acids and recombine them into human proteins, however we only do that if the proteins in question aren't human, if they are our body assumes they are our own proteins and leave them alone.
if you eat the brains of a human (and the fact that we know this is perhaps reflects badly on humanity) our body will see the human neural proteins and just put them to use immediately without breaking them down, so you will get these proteins that don't match, and don't fit, and they will serve as a template for other proteins so they know how to fold and the person will go crazy and die.
picard was assimilated, but hue was not.
Super Duper Cut!
It's Documentary Worthy! It's TV Worthy!
One thing i've been wondering for a while now is what species in star trek are immune to the borg assimilation like the Undine/Species 8472, I would believe that the Tholians would be one those species considering how alien they are to most species in star trek and the fact that they live at 404 °F.
The answer to your earlier posed questions are not a matter of Trek in-world logic. I think it's more likely that the writers and creators of the show hadn't yet fully fleshed out this new 'species'.
I read somewhere there was an IRL soft reboot with the Borg between 'Q-Who' and 'The Best of Both Worlds'. The writers completely changed the motivations of the Borg. They even had a quick line in 'Best of Both Words' to smooth it over.
Lt. Cmdr Elizabeth Paula Shelby : I thought they weren't interested in human life forms. Only our technology.
Capt. Picard : That priority seems to have changed
You really postulate some fresh theories for me at least. I love Trek, but don't get into the online debates. These videos really make re-watching each series for the 100th time more rewarding.
Hey... Maybe Unimatrix 0 is a direct result of The Queen. She is obviously acting as an individual personality and it would be clever to say that she was a mutation in the evolution of the Borg species.
Although I would say that the Borg could just take Starfleet officers and the collective is through subspace so it doesn't matter if they are in the Delta Quadrant. You also keep acting like the Borg would act like humans when... no they wouldn't.
The Borg queen, I think, operates like a queen of bees commanding drones. She needs a male "super drone" if you will, in order to reproduce a new queen, after which the male is discarded. Which could be why she wanted Picard as Locutus, and when that backfired, wanted Datacutus. Then that backfired...
ADMIRAL JANEWAY
WANTED THE
QUEEN
TO FIND THE FUTURE SHUTTLE
That never made sense to me because she clearly looked like she didn’t want to be found either.
@@DanRaidersWarriorsSharksGiants yeah but if admiral Janeway didn't get assimilated it wouldn't have crippled the borg in general.
@@JoshuaMarshallofficial It made no sense in the story for that Janeway to act like she didnt want to be caught when that appeared to be the entire point.It was bad writing.
@@DanRaidersWarriorsSharksGiants She had to put up resistance, or the queen would never have taken the bait.
@@DavidLemmo That is a lie.The queen would have caught her and brought her in anyway and Janeway acted scared before the queen ever saw her.
The whole point of janeway being there was to get assimilated which makes her being afraid of being caught horrible writing.
She did put up enough resistance by hiding right next to her.That alone made the queen take the bait and the new technology.
28:43 I always liked the closed loop theory. Otherwise why would the Borg go to Earth then time travel. Just time travel in a random location with no opposition then travel to Earth after going to the past.
15:13 The Borg's strength is based on their advanced tech and they know it. Them doing everything to retrieve damaged drones could simply be to retain the tech the drone is made from from falling into enemy hands?
The bog having a favirote drone would be like a human having a favirote cell.
Capt. Insaneway!! HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!
Mrs. Columbo in Space...
No need to say any more.
I loved voyager. Probably my favorite trek series.
It's way better than it's given credit for.
It was the best concept for a series, for sure. Naturally, it could have been better, like all the others. The writers could have worked harder to make the episodes more cohesive; an evolutionary process
@Lore Reloaded, isn’t there some, beta canon references, that explained the pronoun issues you reference? Mainly in Star Trek legacy, during the assimilation of species 125, the Borg found an individual female, that “displayed a mental prowess, enabling them to sift through thousands of thoughts and bring order to chaos”. Wouldn’t it make sense that the Borg would clone or modify the females of her species, to be like her, in order to process information, inadvertently/accidentally making her become the Borg’s pseudo-personality, For lack of a better term. Therefore, the Queen would referred to herself as an individual because she doesn’t think of herself separate from the Borg collective, essentially she is the Borg collective consciousness. Given what we know about how the Borg store, every individual personality. This would allow the Queen to jump in/out any female drone form from her original species, explaining multiple cast changes and eliminating a number of obvious physical weakness that a Queen would present.
Star Trek fans are the best at explaining away clearly out-of-universe plot holes and illogicalities. From exploding consoles to the Borg queen.
I think I have a theory that fairly neatly explains a lot of the problems pointed out with the queen. The queen was part of the borg for quite some time, but was a part of the collective, a central processor of sorts. Then hugh comes back and starts spreading individuality, and even manages to infect the queen. The queen separates that cube from the collective and believes she saved the borg, unaware that she was now acting as individual, from this point on she continues to become more and more individual while continuing to believe she is merely leading the borg as she is supposed to. The interaction with hugh scared her and thus she (and the rest of the borg by proxy) begin to act more paranoid. She develops obsessions with 7 of 9 and Janeway, causing the collective to behave in less than perfectly reasonable ways when dealing with them. Her delusion that she was unaffected is the cause of her generally talking as an individual while sometimes talking as a mouth piece for the collective. Her delusion of being unaffected prevents her from realizing the threat her own existence poses to the collective, while her administrative powers prevent the collective from doing anything to stop her or correct the problem
Borg technology left in Enterprise, colletected by section thirty one, and then utilized to create control during STD era.
and that is how STD was created dear Timmy
My thoughts? The Borg didn't seem to have nano technology, conversion using nannite, until they came across the federation. Did that tech completely disappear. Or was that from another society?
Can you do a scenario on what if the duras won the Klingon civil war
Great video. Thanks!
I submit that Amus is the Borg's failed attempt to assimilate the Founders. The Founders were able to shed this contamination. But unable to kill a Founder being, quarantined it far away in Alpha quadrant. 🤔🤔
First what I personally believe and accept is that the cube which was sent in first contact is vastly outdated and is in fact responding the distress call from the Arctic 1 from the ENT Regeneration era (mid 22nd century) making it a 200 year old cube. Most likely the closest ship at that given time, it’s primary function was salvage and retrieval and not actually invasion - hence the docking port. Which also explains why it has the sphere inside, most likely a damaged sphere picked up en route which couldn’t be brought back and was taken along for the ride as it would have been inefficient to turn back. The Borg distress call form turn “future” and the potentiality of acquiring future Borg tech has now taken priority.
We have to assume the cube has been through a lot after 200 years at warp and has likely taken a beating along the way. On top of which the age of the cube would also account for the “vulnerability”. Upon arrival at the old coordinates of the Arctic One and failure to retrieve any remnants there was a change of plans. The queen assigned another Queen to assume control (as we are now clearly aware there can be multiple queens at any one time and said queens can be reproduced at will as evidenced by her dying in Dark Frontier and pops back in to existence at endgame etc.) of the cube, her purpose; retrieval of the future Borg tech by any means necessary. That’s what I believe queens are, they’re there to take over in situations in which the ship(s) could be severed from the collective like going back in time. She in turn ordered a sphere to be outfitted for time travel and planned to go retrieve the Borg drones from their source the 22nd century.
So the battle ensued and the cube slugged its way through multiple perimeters of fleets, thinking it had plenty of time to finished the sphere modifications before the cube reached a critical damage threshold. Unfortunately the arrival of the enterprise forced the queen to expedite her plans and rush the sphere. The cube wasn’t destroyed by the enterprise, it in-fact self destructed as stated by 7 of 9 when the cube is critically damaged all of its vital technology self destructs. She ordered the cube to self destruct whilst it still had this was also done to give the sphere breathing room and allow it to freely make a temporal incursion without interference. Had it done it whilst the cube was still up the federation’s ship would swarm it and destroy it. The plan actually worked, the ships all scattered and the sphere snuck back in time. Having had to hastily make the temporal calculations the queen made a miscalculation and ended up further back than intended. Making the best of the situation she adapted her plan and begin bombing the general vicinity of the federation launch site. Once again upon arrival of the Enterprise she was force to adapt again knowing the sphere was no match for the Sovereign. Her new plan was to repeat history and send a new distress signal.
Theres also the theory that they could just be sending disposable ships once in a while on suicide aka reconnaissance missions to engage the federation and effectively ‘absorb’ all the new tech data, weapons frequencies, ship designs and also generally keep the Federation on the Blackfoot and keeping themselves up to date, forcing them to always be recovering and preventing them from turtling etc to make sure they’re not surprised by any new technology they might have invented between encounters. That would also make a ton of sense.
Borg Queen wants to know your location.
Earth year 1989 America
43:28-43:45 he calls voyager. Discovery
Meh. It’s almost as bad.
@@tempest20000
🖕
Sigh.
If only discovery was as good as voyager
I do this a lot as well. I think it's because they're both named after famous satellites- I remember 'the one that's named after a satellite', forgetting that there's actually two.
How does unimatrax 0 work with Lore's Borg?
Nice review.
I was confused about the events happening in the time traveling.
LoreReloaded: "These are my thoughts, what are your thoughts"
Me: "Our thoughts are one"