you are either lying or forgetting what it was like in Boston for any PC or any console at the time of FO4, that game on console alone will constantly crash in Boston, people will create mods to bypass the city landscape because it was often very much impossible getting from point A to point B like goodneibor for example, it's in the heaviest part of the city, so for console gamers it's always been shit, on PC it's been tough on hardware that was meant for the game so depending on your hardware it was also just as laggy and buggy and issue ridden, nowadays it's far easier to play with a lot better hardware than the game suggests, but people are always seeking for more improvement's for the entire map, this game at launch came with so many bugs and glitches and many of them bethesda never attempted to do an update of any kind up until now. this is why i feel you have a bad memory or perhaps unintentionally lying, the game has always had issues regardless what you say, the modders have been working on fixing this game for over the last decade and some mods help, but none of them or even all together fix all it's issues, this is why bethesda needs to get it right. pretty much every fallout game has been like this, except for the topdowns, but they are not what i'm talking about, i'm specifically talking about creation engine made games, in general they are always buggy and broken games. i swear that engine is held together with duct tape and a pack of bubble gum and maybe thousands of shoelaces lol, i started calling it the Jank engine, because no matter what bethesda improves on, the engine will always come with that built-in jank and it can't be coded out sadly lol.
Bethesda is not the AAA studio a lot of people assume. They haven't adapted their small-team management and design approach to larger scale demands. The poor writing suddenly makes sense when you realize it's a process issue, not talent. Designers are writers and writers are designers. It doesn't work any longer. They've got gold-plated IP, but the studio can't make Industry leading games as currently constituted. It needs a restructure even more than a new engine.
Totally! writers are what is missing. Fallout 3 was great new engine and really good character design. But story was very basic while decent same time but qutie lienar and "meh". Fallout new Vegas had F*cked designed factions especially the great khans hwo have nothign related to mongols except they have som yurts and a poster with mongol soldier and the legion who think they are romans but with baseball equipment and sometimes dishes and motorbikes helmets as armor, i would have totally prefer punk/tribal army inthe style of KEN manga, after all is what the legion is: a gathering of post apo tribes conquered by cesar, i would have think of them with warrior in leather armors or scale armors that they took from monstaer animals with cornon their spauldrons , something like that. Fallout new Vegas had interesting dialogues and quest just the main quest could have finish little bit more epic, Obsidian definitely made a very decent job but seeing them as "the savior" would be an error honestly recent Obsidian games never interested me, ican't remenber one since Fallout new vegas same awake my interest. Fallout 4 was just good technically (but not relly on optimisation), character design was pretty good, just world building expansion and story was complete garbage. If Bethesda was Clever they would just have redone Fallout1&2 on starfield engine, they already have quest dialogues and the lore of the other games... I think this kind of prove they are not, but it's maybe political as first fallouts are more politically incorrect. In resume Bethesda Sucks. Maybe they should just create a complete new studio.
Exactly when they got more staff it caused bloat, instead of making development faster it caused more issues and yea the writers and Devs they have are talented but for an analogy it's like you have taken a pub chef who can cook nice food and everyone likes his food but now you have thrown him into a 5 star Michelin restaurant your going to have issues and that's Bethesda.
@@thomaslacornette1282the Obsidian that made New Vegas is not the Obsidian that exists today, or even the one that made Outer Worlds. The guys who made New Vegas were the original creators of the Fallout series, and they managed to do more with Bethesda’s broken engine in one year of rushed development than Bethesda has ever done with the engine.
I mean plenty of Todd Howard games have great writing in them, its just not usually focused solely on the main plot. Anyone who played Far Harbor or did anything with Vincent Valentine can attest Fallout 4's moments of solid writing, not to mention the Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild storylines of Skyrim or even the Mantis or Crimson Fleet storylines of Starfield. If there is a fair criticism, it's that the main plots are generally basic stories to move you from one area of the world to the next. Its the stories in-between that often shine in Bethesda games.
@@weeklygameschat159 Well you ended your own argument right there then. I said people, not studio. Lots of people leave studios all the time and go off to different projects
@@Damomonopolos so you want a completely new studio to form with the folks who used to work at irrational games? Or do you mean that Ken Levine should make a fallout game? Neither is really practical.
Even on Creation Engine (it is outdated, yes, and it should be replaced with something more "modern") you can create good animations (just look at Skyrim mods like all those ADXP\MCO movesets). Even the facial animations can be pretty good on this engine, just need to put a lot more effort on creating them, not just "move mouth left corner bone by Y axis on 0.5, move mouth right corner bone by Y axis on -0.5, then move both by Z axis up on 5 and you'll get a "Happy" emotion). Extressive Facial Animations for Skyrim is proof of that, like other custom facial animations (mostly on ported heads). And changing the engine won’t teach developers how to write good dialogues or plots if the developers don't want to put more effort\don’t know how to do that.
A few points on the video. Firstly, New Vegas had the best storytelling in any Fallout game so far, but it was also the most buggy game I have ever played from any developer. Even to this day I can only play it using a community projected mod that fixes hundreds of issues that remain in the game to this day. The next game would benefit massively from more writing talent, but not necessarily from a new studio. Secondly, the engine is one of Bethesda's greatest strengths. Sure, the Decima engine can handle better fidelity and animations, but it's the things happening behind the scenes that make the Creation Engine what it is. If you wanted to add all of the background tracking, object interactivity, radiant AI, etc. into the Decima engine then you would have to massively scale back the graphics. The only real limitation in games is processor cycles and you have to chose what you use them for.
Hard Disagree and I know that’s unpopular. I don’t play Fallout for cutting edge graphics. The Creation engine is wonky but it gives NPCs a ton of life and is nearly infinitely moddable, which is a huge reason the franchise endures such long-standing popularity and appeal. It makes Bethesda’s games constantly supported by the fan base. A new engine will cut that off almost completely. I’ve never seen games and a game engine as heavily moddable.
Creation Engine is a fork of the Gamebyro Engine. The same thing they’ve been using since Morrowind. 22 years now. They need a new engine before anything else
Never really been into fallout believe I played fallout 3 back in the day and tried fallout 4 and just couldn't get into it regardless what they do I hope they can find more success than they did in Starfield. Great video lono keep up the good work
@@YOGI-kb9tg Not to mention the misconception that it’s gonna be another masterpiece like new vegas, most of the new vegas devs have either retired or left obsidian.
I played 3 first, then 4, then NV and finally 76. I like 3 and 4 almost equally, and there are mechanics and sorts of features I guess that I like about both. There are things I think 3 did better than 4 (such as having to commit to a certain build and maintain weapons and specific dialogue choices), and things I think 4 does better than 3 (such as just the way it feels to handle firearms, the weapon crafting system and just making the world feel so rich with an actual color palette). I don't like to let 3 and 4 compete in my head. To me they're just both great games that have their own feel and they both rock it. Now try as I might (about 4 or 5 times) I have NEVER been able to get into NV. I don't even know why, it's like I can't place what's off about it. But even from the intro cinematic I just feel... Idk, uninterested. Then I've played into it a few times and end up just fizzling out and wanting to play 3 or 4. I appreciate that it's a well made game, it's just not my cup. Now I absolutely abhor online games so 76 was a pretty quick pass for me as well. But given the short play time between the two, I hate to admit it, but I'd rather play 76 than NV. And yes I know how absolutely sacrilegious and nonsensical that sounds and I respect whatever feelings people have for NV. But I just have to be honest with myself and choose 76. Still that's a fight between two losing dogs. For me, 3 and 4 is where it's at.
I agree with what you said and also I want to add bethesda could try some experiment by handling a fallout spin off to another developer but instead use a different game engine and see the reception of it. Modding is not the only reason why fallout is great.
I know I have talked about this to death... but in a dream scenario, they would hand this to CDPR, and CDPR would have an updated RED engine (instead of moving to UE5). CDPR would be able to do this series some serious justice and that RED engine has some secret sauce in it. I really wish CDPR wasn't totally shifting to UE5
The problem with Bethesda is that their games built a fanbase that is completely at odds with the general gaming public. Bethesda fans want freedom, consequence of action, a deep RPG that allows multiple play builds and a game where the world itself is the star. The general public wants something that evolves, becomes streamlined, focuses on graphical innovation and fidelity, and where the main story stays with us long after we roll credits. Those things are near impossible to balance and it seems like Bethesda has decided to be what its core fans want than what the main stream wishes it would be. I'm fine with that, but I dont think many on this channel are though.
Fallout 5 is not possible without the creation engine - the engine is built to have a lot of things running at once. It’s a unique engine with deep flaws. What they need is better code and an engine redesign. A Bethesda game without radiant AI is not a Bethesda game (Starfield was soulless without radiant AI). Another fundamental issue was the scope of Starfield, it was simply not possible. If they only limited to one galaxy with well populated and crafted maps on each planet it would have broken 88-90.
Plus, creating Fo5 in another engine would limit the ability to mod the game, if not, completely strip it away. BGS makes it a huge point to keep their games mod-friendly. It just wouldn’t work. I completely agree with everything you said.
@@macandrews9789 there are several studios and engines that are mod friendly and aid in modding their games, stop sticking up for a shit engine becasue a shit company is lazy
Yeah waiting 5 years and getting a FO76 or Starfield isn't working out well. If the next game before 2030 isn't up to par we're really just judging Bethesda on their results from almost 2 decades back expecting miracles.
In told people that ms is not making 100 million dollar plus aaa games anymore. They said their budget is 20-50 million dollars. They will only make small aa indie type games filled with mtx. They will license out those other ips don’t pay for any development just collect revenue from sales. Just like sports games. Xbox fans it’s over. Devs leave because they do not want to make low budget gamepass shovelware.
calling starfield a spiritual "fallout 5" is a pretty big stretch, they are two different IP's that are made by Bethesda with very little in common other than the engine and how F4 and SF play
Loot system, crafting system, gun ui and inventory, skill trees, dialogue system, quest system, and the factions. All basically lifted right from Fallout
@@ReforgeGaming thats not how spiritual succession works. What you are describing are creative choices by Bethesda and both games are made by them. A more accurate usage would be how the wasteland games are spiritual successors to Fallout 1 & 2 since they are top down and more gritty post apocalyptic aesthetic. What you are saying is watch dogs is a successor to farcry because both are ubisoft games
@@CalebByRamen Again, they are made by the same studio. Of course they are going to be similar. Thats not what it means to be a spiritual successor or “fallout 5” when literally none of the elements that make fallout “fallout” are present in starfield.
Totally the creation engine just ain't cutting it anymore. Sure it's familiar for the Devs but it's not that good anymore especially when you compare it to other games of this generation or even the last generation. Games like the Witcher 3 and mass effect out perform starfield in every single regard.
LIVE DISCUSSION - ruclips.net/user/livebLq79-s2oHk
you are either lying or forgetting what it was like in Boston for any PC or any console at the time of FO4, that game on console alone will constantly crash in Boston, people will create mods to bypass the city landscape because it was often very much impossible getting from point A to point B like goodneibor for example, it's in the heaviest part of the city, so for console gamers it's always been shit, on PC it's been tough on hardware that was meant for the game so depending on your hardware it was also just as laggy and buggy and issue ridden, nowadays it's far easier to play with a lot better hardware than the game suggests, but people are always seeking for more improvement's for the entire map, this game at launch came with so many bugs and glitches and many of them bethesda never attempted to do an update of any kind up until now.
this is why i feel you have a bad memory or perhaps unintentionally lying, the game has always had issues regardless what you say, the modders have been working on fixing this game for over the last decade and some mods help, but none of them or even all together fix all it's issues, this is why bethesda needs to get it right.
pretty much every fallout game has been like this, except for the topdowns, but they are not what i'm talking about, i'm specifically talking about creation engine made games, in general they are always buggy and broken games.
i swear that engine is held together with duct tape and a pack of bubble gum and maybe thousands of shoelaces lol, i started calling it the Jank engine, because no matter what bethesda improves on, the engine will always come with that built-in jank and it can't be coded out sadly lol.
Bethesda is not the AAA studio a lot of people assume. They haven't adapted their small-team management and design approach to larger scale demands. The poor writing suddenly makes sense when you realize it's a process issue, not talent. Designers are writers and writers are designers. It doesn't work any longer.
They've got gold-plated IP, but the studio can't make Industry leading games as currently constituted.
It needs a restructure even more than a new engine.
Totally! writers are what is missing. Fallout 3 was great new engine and really good character design. But story was very basic while decent same time but qutie lienar and "meh". Fallout new Vegas had F*cked designed factions especially the great khans hwo have nothign related to mongols except they have som yurts and a poster with mongol soldier and the legion who think they are romans but with baseball equipment and sometimes dishes and motorbikes helmets as armor, i would have totally prefer punk/tribal army inthe style of KEN manga, after all is what the legion is: a gathering of post apo tribes conquered by cesar, i would have think of them with warrior in leather armors or scale armors that they took from monstaer animals with cornon their spauldrons , something like that. Fallout new Vegas had interesting dialogues and quest just the main quest could have finish little bit more epic, Obsidian definitely made a very decent job but seeing them as "the savior" would be an error honestly recent Obsidian games never interested me, ican't remenber one since Fallout new vegas same awake my interest. Fallout 4 was just good technically (but not relly on optimisation), character design was pretty good, just world building expansion and story was complete garbage. If Bethesda was Clever they would just have redone Fallout1&2 on starfield engine, they already have quest dialogues and the lore of the other games... I think this kind of prove they are not, but it's maybe political as first fallouts are more politically incorrect. In resume Bethesda Sucks. Maybe they should just create a complete new studio.
Exactly when they got more staff it caused bloat, instead of making development faster it caused more issues and yea the writers and Devs they have are talented but for an analogy it's like you have taken a pub chef who can cook nice food and everyone likes his food but now you have thrown him into a 5 star Michelin restaurant your going to have issues and that's Bethesda.
@@thomaslacornette1282the Obsidian that made New Vegas is not the Obsidian that exists today, or even the one that made Outer Worlds. The guys who made New Vegas were the original creators of the Fallout series, and they managed to do more with Bethesda’s broken engine in one year of rushed development than Bethesda has ever done with the engine.
@@notgonnapay Yes, i guess that's pretty obvious that's not the same guys.
I mean plenty of Todd Howard games have great writing in them, its just not usually focused solely on the main plot. Anyone who played Far Harbor or did anything with Vincent Valentine can attest Fallout 4's moments of solid writing, not to mention the Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild storylines of Skyrim or even the Mantis or Crimson Fleet storylines of Starfield. If there is a fair criticism, it's that the main plots are generally basic stories to move you from one area of the world to the next. Its the stories in-between that often shine in Bethesda games.
They would have to dramatically up the storytelling if they moved to a new engine.
I want the people who make bioshock to do a fallout game, that would be awesome
if they can do an open world rpg, sure
That studio doesn't even exist anymore....
@@weeklygameschat159 Well you ended your own argument right there then. I said people, not studio. Lots of people leave studios all the time and go off to different projects
@@Damomonopolos so you want a completely new studio to form with the folks who used to work at irrational games? Or do you mean that Ken Levine should make a fallout game? Neither is really practical.
@@weeklygameschat159 go ahead and pick. You really seem to want an answer to a question you asked yourself
My first experience with fallout was on a Minecraft console edition map
nice
Maybe the people that made bolder gate 3 should make it
Even on Creation Engine (it is outdated, yes, and it should be replaced with something more "modern") you can create good animations (just look at Skyrim mods like all those ADXP\MCO movesets). Even the facial animations can be pretty good on this engine, just need to put a lot more effort on creating them, not just "move mouth left corner bone by Y axis on 0.5, move mouth right corner bone by Y axis on -0.5, then move both by Z axis up on 5 and you'll get a "Happy" emotion). Extressive Facial Animations for Skyrim is proof of that, like other custom facial animations (mostly on ported heads).
And changing the engine won’t teach developers how to write good dialogues or plots if the developers don't want to put more effort\don’t know how to do that.
A few points on the video. Firstly, New Vegas had the best storytelling in any Fallout game so far, but it was also the most buggy game I have ever played from any developer. Even to this day I can only play it using a community projected mod that fixes hundreds of issues that remain in the game to this day. The next game would benefit massively from more writing talent, but not necessarily from a new studio.
Secondly, the engine is one of Bethesda's greatest strengths. Sure, the Decima engine can handle better fidelity and animations, but it's the things happening behind the scenes that make the Creation Engine what it is. If you wanted to add all of the background tracking, object interactivity, radiant AI, etc. into the Decima engine then you would have to massively scale back the graphics. The only real limitation in games is processor cycles and you have to chose what you use them for.
I still think the next Fallout should be on a different engine. The possibilities are huge.
agreed
Hard Disagree and I know that’s unpopular. I don’t play Fallout for cutting edge graphics. The Creation engine is wonky but it gives NPCs a ton of life and is nearly infinitely moddable, which is a huge reason the franchise endures such long-standing popularity and appeal. It makes Bethesda’s games constantly supported by the fan base. A new engine will cut that off almost completely. I’ve never seen games and a game engine as heavily moddable.
A game like that has already been made in Unreal Engine and by the father of Fallout himself, Tim Cain. It's called The Outer Worlds.
Agreed brand new engine is desperately needed
Creation Engine is a fork of the Gamebyro Engine. The same thing they’ve been using since Morrowind. 22 years now. They need a new engine before anything else
Never really been into fallout believe I played fallout 3 back in the day and tried fallout 4 and just couldn't get into it regardless what they do I hope they can find more success than they did in Starfield. Great video lono keep up the good work
thank you!
Give it to obsidian and change the damn engine to ue5
And re hire Chris Avellone
This would be like a dream come true
Rather have inXile do it.
It won't be obsidian they have there own games to deal with.
@@YOGI-kb9tg
Not to mention the misconception that it’s gonna be another masterpiece like new vegas, most of the new vegas devs have either retired or left obsidian.
I played 3 first, then 4, then NV and finally 76. I like 3 and 4 almost equally, and there are mechanics and sorts of features I guess that I like about both. There are things I think 3 did better than 4 (such as having to commit to a certain build and maintain weapons and specific dialogue choices), and things I think 4 does better than 3 (such as just the way it feels to handle firearms, the weapon crafting system and just making the world feel so rich with an actual color palette). I don't like to let 3 and 4 compete in my head. To me they're just both great games that have their own feel and they both rock it. Now try as I might (about 4 or 5 times) I have NEVER been able to get into NV. I don't even know why, it's like I can't place what's off about it. But even from the intro cinematic I just feel... Idk, uninterested. Then I've played into it a few times and end up just fizzling out and wanting to play 3 or 4. I appreciate that it's a well made game, it's just not my cup. Now I absolutely abhor online games so 76 was a pretty quick pass for me as well. But given the short play time between the two, I hate to admit it, but I'd rather play 76 than NV. And yes I know how absolutely sacrilegious and nonsensical that sounds and I respect whatever feelings people have for NV. But I just have to be honest with myself and choose 76. Still that's a fight between two losing dogs. For me, 3 and 4 is where it's at.
I agree with what you said and also I want to add bethesda could try some experiment by handling a fallout spin off to another developer but instead use a different game engine and see the reception of it. Modding is not the only reason why fallout is great.
Obsidian is the way.
I know I have talked about this to death... but in a dream scenario, they would hand this to CDPR, and CDPR would have an updated RED engine (instead of moving to UE5). CDPR would be able to do this series some serious justice and that RED engine has some secret sauce in it. I really wish CDPR wasn't totally shifting to UE5
The problem with Bethesda is that their games built a fanbase that is completely at odds with the general gaming public. Bethesda fans want freedom, consequence of action, a deep RPG that allows multiple play builds and a game where the world itself is the star. The general public wants something that evolves, becomes streamlined, focuses on graphical innovation and fidelity, and where the main story stays with us long after we roll credits. Those things are near impossible to balance and it seems like Bethesda has decided to be what its core fans want than what the main stream wishes it would be. I'm fine with that, but I dont think many on this channel are though.
Imagine Fallout 5 on the Unreal 5 engine.
Yea. It will run 25 fps on consoles and be a studder fest on PC
Fallout 5 is not possible without the creation engine - the engine is built to have a lot of things running at once. It’s a unique engine with deep flaws. What they need is better code and an engine redesign.
A Bethesda game without radiant AI is not a Bethesda game (Starfield was soulless without radiant AI). Another fundamental issue was the scope of Starfield, it was simply not possible. If they only limited to one galaxy with well populated and crafted maps on each planet it would have broken 88-90.
Plus, creating Fo5 in another engine would limit the ability to mod the game, if not, completely strip it away. BGS makes it a huge point to keep their games mod-friendly. It just wouldn’t work. I completely agree with everything you said.
you seriously think another engine couldn't do what that shit engine does? lol
@@macandrews9789 there are several studios and engines that are mod friendly and aid in modding their games, stop sticking up for a shit engine becasue a shit company is lazy
you are why we get shit things
Yes! Maybe EA could make Fallout, then we could finally get a Fallout battle royal 😂
Fallout 2 IS SO GOOD! Play it! (Fallout 1 is charming though of its time)
Yeah waiting 5 years and getting a FO76 or Starfield isn't working out well. If the next game before 2030 isn't up to par we're really just judging Bethesda on their results from almost 2 decades back expecting miracles.
If its anything like Starfield. Its a hard Pass
In told people that ms is not making 100 million dollar plus aaa games anymore. They said their budget is 20-50 million dollars. They will only make small aa indie type games filled with mtx. They will license out those other ips don’t pay for any development just collect revenue from sales. Just like sports games. Xbox fans it’s over. Devs leave because they do not want to make low budget gamepass shovelware.
calling starfield a spiritual "fallout 5" is a pretty big stretch, they are two different IP's that are made by Bethesda with very little in common other than the engine and how F4 and SF play
Loot system, crafting system, gun ui and inventory, skill trees, dialogue system, quest system, and the factions. All basically lifted right from Fallout
@@ReforgeGaming thats not how spiritual succession works. What you are describing are creative choices by Bethesda and both games are made by them. A more accurate usage would be how the wasteland games are spiritual successors to Fallout 1 & 2 since they are top down and more gritty post apocalyptic aesthetic. What you are saying is watch dogs is a successor to farcry because both are ubisoft games
you just explained a LOT in common, "engine and how f4 play"
@@CalebByRamen Again, they are made by the same studio. Of course they are going to be similar. Thats not what it means to be a spiritual successor or “fallout 5” when literally none of the elements that make fallout “fallout” are present in starfield.
I think bethesda should use unreal engine 4
Totally the creation engine just ain't cutting it anymore. Sure it's familiar for the Devs but it's not that good anymore especially when you compare it to other games of this generation or even the last generation. Games like the Witcher 3 and mass effect out perform starfield in every single regard.
UE4 > UE5 at this point
@@YOGI-kb9tg I 100% agree push a spinoff to a competent developer that has a next good engine
Do you think UE4 can do what Creation Engine does for large scale open world games?
@@tronamThat and more if we being completely honest
Wow. “The Fall out Tv is great. Let me take this opportunity to crap on Starfield and use a PS game engine in my example.” LOL
Bethesda bought Fallout they didn’t make the original