This is really quite amazing. I had been listening to this video for the past 18 minutes and had to pause the video because of how blown away I was by this idea. Then I saw that your comment about it is the top comment on the video, so I guess I’m not alone in being floored by this idea.
I love this. The culture of honor being so characteristic of the North makes even more sense with this theory in mind. The Wall lapses into a place to send your thieves and bastards as a means of discarding them socially, but there's a dignity with the Night's Watch from back in the day that makes a lot more sense if dying on the Wall was a physical contribution to the safety of the realm. "It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it" combined with "It's a simple job, anyone can do it" makes this handy-dandy baseline for the worth of a person: if your contribution to society would be improved by using you for mulch, the Wall has you covered.
It seems they do it more because of white walkers but I find it interesting that the existence of white walkers forces people to burn the bodies, thus taking away the food of weirwood trees. It makes the origin of walkers more confusing.
This is great insight keep up the great work. The practice of leaving a bastard of the first night in the “snow” had me think about all of the other bastard names. We know the children lived all throughout Westeros before mans arrival. In each place where the right of the first night was practiced they’d leave the possibly gifted children in the snow, by the rivers, on the hills, in the sand, on the stone, in flowers, or out in the storm.
One interesting thing is that John has a short and quick flashback where Ned intended to make a deal with the NightWatch in order for him to become the lord of an unused castle and have a few families to populate the Gift. In other words, with this new line of Snow certainly following the stark traditions, there would be litteraly a little village of people living as sacrifices for the Wall and a potentially huge line of bastards/kings blood constantly feeding the wall.
I wrote a whole ass essay style theory about Gendel’s children actually being the children of the forest years ago. It ties in all the underground caverns being connected by tunnels and how the crypts of Winterfell, I believe, are connected to that network via the oldest, collapsed part. I think Jon is the “Last Hero” figure and his dream of being called in the crypts could be him finding the children of the forest.
17:50 was genuinely hilarious, I never really thought of it like that. But yeah, the Wall really is a horrible place filled with horrible people for a reason. If Jon really did get gobbled up by the Weirwood after getting stabbed it would be equally hilarious and DEFINITELY up GRRM's dark sense of humor. Sam was always his self insert at the wall and Tyrion his insert in general.
Ser..... you have kicked me in the balls with this line of discourse. If this Theory isn't true it damn well should be. well done. You have earned my sub.
This series is brilliant and Jon dying with his King's blood at the wall would help explain his pending resurrection...the magic of the children and Weirwoods.
I personally find the proximity of a red priestess to be the most probable cause of Jon's resurrection. Thoras of Myr resurrected Ser Berrick Dondarion multiple times. Lady Melisandre is a red priestess on the wall with the Mannis. I also believe Jon's death technically ends his vow to The Watch, so I'm curious how grrm plays it out.
I think Preston Jacobs have also theorized that theres also Weirwood trees deep deep down under the House of Black and White, a place where so many people willingly off themselves. The roots of this network reach really deep, like, bottom of oceans deep to reach other continents.
So the surname of bastards is literally where they're supposed to be abandoned as babies. It's pretty dark. After Westeros becomes modern and urbanized, bastard surnames will become "Dumpster" "Sewers" and "Alley".
I have never commented on a post before but I am so excited by these revelations. I think you have absolutely worked out the mystery of the novel. I'm thinking we could have further evidence of glass candles and first nights being linked when we consider Varys account of him being cut and he hears a voice. Could the sorcerer be using Varys blood as a sacrifice to use a glass candle to communicate with someone? We know Varys is an orphan and potentially another first night by blow but from the Targaryen blood line.. just an idea!
I have watched a lot of Game of Thrones RUclips content lately and seeing a few different channels, and your channel has cleared everything up, great explaining! Thank you 🙏🏼
Good stuff, man! Keep it up 👍 Regarding pacts/making deals: Cersei’s dream of her childhood encounter with Maggy the Frog, I think, is at least in part an allegory or metaphor for what happened when the CotF made these arrangements with the First Men: Maggy requires her blood in exchange for knowledge gained through magic, everything in the tent is green, there is so much description in that chapter that I am sure there’s plenty to unravel. There are other similar deals that occur throughout the story, like Mirri and Dany sacrificing the horse (and Rhaego), although Mirri isn’t a true CotF, her symbolism seems to put her in that role and there is definitely treachery there at the cost of the non-CotF figure). Then there’s Mel, basically tapping Stannis’ life force so she can make shadow assassins for him, all exchanges of human sacrifice in some form for magic. And we are told that all magic was rooted in blood, George kind of spells it out, doesn’t he?
I do have a video on the to do list with that direct topic but I think you pretty much nailed it. The main if not only source of magic in the world seems to be life. The making of life being the miracle and therefore life itself is the thing has magic. Which can be used as blood or shadows or burnings. Which is basically blood anyway. Fire and blood. All of it comes back to life/blood/growth. Whatever term you want to use for the same thing.
I think when Patchface says, "Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish. Up here the young fish teach the old fish." he might be talking about this. The Old Gods eat the young and seem to be undead.
@proudsaiyanprince2651 patchface is a prophet. Doesnt matter who he represents or not, or who gave him his gift; he still sees things. When he says "under the sea", that means "In my visions"
Ok, so pulling from memory here, so feel free to correct anything I am misremembering, BUT: I watched a video on the Deep Ones in ASOIAF, and it got me thinking about a universal magic that ALL of the in-universe magics pull from. Sort of like the maybe physical, maybe extradimensional sea of darkness wayyyy wayyyy deep down in the earth and its "rules" underlying blood magic, COTF magic, fire magic, ice magic, greensight, warging, etc. (I am imagining the dark ocean under the mines of moria that gandalf and the balrog fell into - the one with the eldritch monsters gandalf feared talking about) Basically some eldritch force that accepts bargains in exchange for some of its power. Instead of blood sacrifice being some sort of innate mechanic in ASOIAF like physics, the children of the forest sacrifice to this eldritch force in exchange for their magic. Each magic system would be different cultures discovering a way to bargain with this eldritch force or deep one because, no matter where they are, that deep one is always underneath them. I remember reading ages ago a theory about the Others (or something sounding just them) existing in the far east, past those giant black towers. The theory was basically the far east wrapping around to the north of westeros on a globe, but WHAT IF the eldritch magic causing the others and all these magics is below EVERYONE's feet EVERYWHERE. I wonder if the parallels between the children and squishers, red priests, etc. are less them ALL being the same thing (all children with glamours, all secret deep ones, etc.) and is really several ancient groups that have been twisted by millennia of interaction with the eldritch force (the red priests being more recent than the children or squishers). The force could be beyond mortal notions of malevolence, and instead simply by its nature "corrupting" those imbued with its power. The children, the squishers, or whatever uses this magic could have been ancient humans that interacted with this Old God long before even the first men showed up in westeros. The weirwoods could function as eyes/limbs for the old one such that it can consume whatever it needs to. The chlidren could have created the weirwoods whose roots pull from this ocean (might be this ocean that the wall gets its water/warding power from - thats why it blocks dragons too) and access its magic, and inadvertently alerted an eldritch force to their existence and even they don't grasp that it is directly tapped into their hive mind. Bloodraven could even be some sort of avatar of this entity/force/god, and is basically trying to get the blood flowing again to feed this old god. The children sought its power for their own use, and are effectively in too deep with some entity now thirsting for blood it had no means of accessing before. Now that it has weirwoods to observe the world, it can influence the world to its own end, and this would all stem from a people seeking power for - from their perspective - perfectly justifiable reasons. Another note: In a video about the Hammer of Dorne, where the children sank dorne / raised the ocean around it, the video author mentioned the children calling their spells "songs". This played into an idea that the others and the targaryens were created by the children in a SONG of ice and fire. The greenseers and wargs being turned into "singers" might imply the children use them to amplify their own magic. It could even be that the children use humans to create more beings carrying magic COTF blood to use in their spells/songs or to sacrifice to the old one. I wonder if the motivation and sort of thematic tie-in to the people-focused nature of the story is that the others were a song/spell the children used to fight the first men and it effectively backfired because they were meddling in forces they could not comprehend (parallel to Dany and the witch with drogo and her would-be first born child). The children could have tried to rectify the others mistake by creating "fire-imbued greenseers" and made the targaryens (who would later go on to undermine the entire setup between the children and the old one). So either maliciously or just by existing as some universal force, the old one would have fed the children all the proverbial rope they would need for their own undoing. It simply is power that can be claimed, but claiming power is never without consequence (cough cough major theme cough cough). I think this idea of some force/entity representing the dangerous and consquential, but not necessarily innately evil nature of power, would resonate well with the story's themes. It is less about some universal evil that the good guys must defeat, and more so a story about people wielding power they do not fully understand, the reasons they do so, and the consequences for their actions. It does not matter the justification, whether children fending off colonizers, or Bobby B wiping out the targaryens, the use of power itself has consequences, and the compelling part of the story is how these characters grapple with the decisions/consequences of if/how they use the power available to them. tl;dr I think a dark, evil ocean at the core of the world deep, deep below the surface is both literal and the source of all the different magics we see in the story, but also a metaphor for the core theme of the story - that being the relationship between people and power. How do people decide how/if to use the power available to them, and how do they grapple with the consequences of their choices. I do not think this eldritch ocean, or whatever old one living in it is necessarily malevolent, but by the nature of the power it grants, it doles out consequences for wielding whatever power it grants or is drawn from it. You can maybe minimize the cost by paying up front with a magic baby, but use of power in the books never comes with some clean-cut, 1-to-1 exchange. Use of power is by its nature consequential, and each perspective will come with its own justification for wielding power regardless.
8:35 interesting that they use the term burned out. Not burned down made me think of all lights going out. Think of the hell these undying ones are going through being and endless observer not capable of interacting or being part of the world you are forced to endlessly observe. I am so glad I found your channel very informative.
That is a good catch, I could see burned out being used for a couple reasons. It is like a life fire burns out upon death or how you have to burn the roots out or the tree comes back. Maybe just burning the tree down wasn't enough at times the roots regrew a new one. Either way burned out is an interesting choice compared to burned down.
there are plenty of Hart trees left south of the neck, we know of Riverrun, Highgardern and Storm's End (Mel burned it) had them. also one of the old ways was the blood eagle, and execution was done at the Hart Tree, where all of the blood is drained
The Doomsday Switch scenario is great - really hope it turns out true. It'd give so much more meaning to the Big Bad Evil. One thing I would add is that I imagine the children of the forest, despite their hive mind, might have not been of one mind (pun intended) on how to deal with the First Men. Some were willing to take them down with them in vengeance, creating the Others, others found a way to coexist, leading to the creation of the Wall and all those customs. And the reason the purpose of those customs had to be kept secret might have been that equally, some Men thought they could just fight the threat and wouldn't play along in their effective subjugation. PS: Also, where's the Part III you talk about at the end, delving into the narrative implications of this theory from an auctorial perspective? That sounds really interesting.
Thinking about Ned cleaning his sword by the Heart Tree. Why would he not just deal with the traitor right next to the tree rather than the few drops provided by cleaning the sword?
You are starting something with videooo topic!....This was good and very well put......I've had my thoughs, twists, ideas about ASOIF but this is 🔓🧠💡💯☝🏿.
So the Nights Watch culture is a bit like the Grail Ritual from Fate - it’s a subterfuge masquerading as a conflict that’s actually one big sacrifice to boost magical power. Neat.
May have already covered this, but could the Night's Watch Oath line "(I am) the horn than wakes the sleepers" be reference to the Horn of Jorramun waking and freeing your theorised sleeping wall/tree-bound others? You mention in one video the link between Stannis sleeping and his shadow, and shadows of the 'sleeping' Undying ones, so maybe it's a combination of all that symbolism, once again implying the need to free the wall-bound others, per your theory. Then again I'm not sure why that would be the Nigh's Watch oath as they are surely doing the opposite in their role and sustaining the wall. Or maybe I am just reaching!
Just thinking aloud here and might have to think on this more but what if the sleepers in the wall are woken when the Nights watch signals an attack and the wall "defends itself" to get blood... The horn that wakes the sleepers could wake the wall beings to fight and kill whoever is attacking the wall
The Andals never conquered the North, and yet House Glover of the First Men has built their castle in the deep woods. Idk what this means, but its there.
This is a good catch and worth a deeper look. My initial thought was to see if it was a newer built castle (as in after the pact was forgotten or the children were gone from the deepwood) but it is very old. Like age of heroes old. Makes me think perhaps "Deepwood Motte" would be built just on the edge of the true deepwoods so it guards it and makes the lords close to the children's domain in the old days. That could make sense of the name and still fit the terms of the pact. But all of that is just speculation on my part. Good catch though in this context it is interesting.
The First Men only used bronze yet the Stark Kings of Winter in the Age of Heroes wore crowns of bronze and iron. They subjugated each and every other king to dominate the North and they slaughtered the Warg King and made House Greenwood flee the North. According to tradition every Stark king was burried with an iron sword. Sure sounds to me that the Starks had something to do with the Andals to get that iron.
The First Men only used bronze yet the Stark Kings of Winter in the Age of Heroes wore crowns of bronze and iron. They subjugated each and every other king to dominate the North and they slaughtered the Warg King and made House Greenwood flee the North. According to tradition every Stark king was burried with an iron sword. Sure sounds to me that the Starks had something to do with the Andals to get that iron.
My New Favorite asoiaf RUclips Streamer... You're a breath of fresh air Michael! Love your work and eagerly awaiting all your future theories and thoughts...🤙
Upon rewatching this many motivations and timeline inconsistencies clicked into place. Many theorists look to the Nights King and Corpse Queen as the origin of the others but it's always sat wrong with me because how can there be a Nights Watch and a Wall before the others? Wtf were they watching? Also, there is some debate in the timeline on exactly how or when the Long Night happened and if there was more than one. With George confirming the Long night happened 5000 years ago, not 8000. Which coincides with the arrival of the Andals. This also melds with it being unclear about when exactly the Nights Watch was founded. Rewatching this video everything clicked into a perfect timeline in my mind and Idk how to explain how this, so I'm gonna lay it out as best I can. Children: (minding own business with giants) First men: Hey, nice continent you have here. We think we'll live here. Children: Ugh I don't think so, peep this, we're gonna create these things called The Others and they're gonna fuck you up. Also we're gonna do the hammer of the waters and try to keep anymore of you from coming here. First men: we would very much like for you to not do that. Children: Well we already did, but, if you promise to follow the old ways and give us lots of blood sacrifices and unwanted babies we will make a giant wall fueled by said blood sacrifice as a fail safe to ensure you stick to the agreement otherwise the wall comes down and the others kill you all. First men: All hail the old gods! The Children Tack some people to trees and the wall is created. The first men form the original nights watch. The children and the first men live in harmony. All of this happens before recorded history. (Put a pin in that) Then, the Andals come. With them they bring their religion, their writing, and begin burning Weirwoods and abolishing the old ways. It's around this time or before that the tale of The Nights King and Corpse queen takes place. They were a part of the original prehistoric Nights Watch which existed to offer sacrifices to the Heart Tree of the wall. This did not sit well with Andals sensibilities and he was defeated, wiped from history, and retroactively portrayed as a villain. All these actions weaken the magic of the wall enough that the others can breach it, ushering in the Long Night. This whole time the others living north of the Wall have become quite pissed off at the Children for nailing them to trees so by the time they breach the wall all hell breaks loose as the Others go full on assault in an attempt to kill the Children and the Wierwoods to set themselves free. Then everyone bands together from all over the known world and figures out a way to get them back north. A new pact is made with less desirable terms for the children than before. The Nights Watch is reestablished. (Now with historical documentation) The others are driven back north. The wall is repaired or replaced. The old ways, the pact, the children, all fade to memory and legend. Fast forward to current times. Blood sacrifices have dried up, barely any unwanted babies to be had, nights watch attendance at an all time low, and Mel's running around the south burning up weirwoods. The magic of the wall is weakening and the others are even more pissed then they were before and they still want free. That brings us up to date. I'm curious what you think about how this fits in with what you've been saying in this video series or if you have anything to add. Apologies for tons of misspellings and bad grammar. LoL
I would say that timeline is a plausible one. I think the best we can do is make plausible guesses at certain things at the moment. But a lot of the inconsistencies with the in world historic record seem to point to something along the lines of what you suggest. I do want to try do a deep dive myself at some point and try put together a video on a possible timeline but I have a lot of research to do before I would attempt it. One thing I have been toying with the idea of and wanna talk about soon is the possibility others we see are essentially shadows of the people in the wall. Meaning like you nail up a person and meld their spirit with the weirwood and create an undying physical body which you can use the power of to shadow bind. Then perhaps you can make these icy shadows we see in the prologue. If so it's possible the others we see in the prologue are shadows created with the purpose to attack mankind, powered by the bodies stuck in the wall. Similar to how the shadow mel birthed had a purpose to kill renly these might be shadows bound with a purpose or goal. If so then I am wondering if there was a moment when the children created others with the intent to destroy mankind if man could have somehow learned how to do this and strapped some bodies to weirwoods themselves and made shadows with the intent of destroying the children. Suddenly both sides have others out there after them and then both sides come to make the pact because of mutually assured destruction. Building the wall together after the pact because both sides are threatened by the shadows that their war unleashed into the world. It would kinda make sense then as to why their are others and why they built a wall still. Rather than get rid of them after the pact they kept them there because the mutually assured destruction was a part of the pact the same way we kep our nukes to enforce power even though they could destroy the world. Also then the wall originally would have likely been used to tie in the ruling families into power because they can subjugate people with their magic warg powers and also the threat of the others who they keep away. Not unlike politicians in our real world often otherize people or even try build walls as a way to build their own power base within their own people. This would allow GRRM to have his cake and eat it too, in that the others could be sympathetic humans stuck in the wall and otherized by society, but also the shadows we see in the prologue are evil and need to be fought and defeated. Or at least fought off until you can solve the problem of the corrupt heart tree and all the people strapped there. Might make it more exciting than just having them be fully sympathetic and that idea could work into the historic timeline imo. Like did the last hero strap his companions to weirwoods when he learned how the children did it and that is why they all died and suddenly he saved mankind and there was a pact? I have no idea but the timeline kinda works and the magic roughly seems to work. Still maybe a few flaws to work out but something I have been toying with.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I'd be interested in your take on the timeline. The difficult thing with timeline theories is it's mostly speculative and one has to sift through and find the parts that are practically important to the story George is trying to tell. Where the theories in this video series excel is they will absolutely 💯 come up in the books. Once u realize there are others in the wall George is slapping u directly in the face with it.
Yea well before I would try speculate on the timeline I will have a video out about the themes and how well it all works, the wall makes the others because of course it does. Like Hadrians wall made others of the scots beyond. In interviews he brings up Hadrian's wall and the effect it has when you declare somewhere the end of the world how suddenly there could be all sorts of monsters there. The wall makes the others works so well. I feel the same it all just hits hard when you see it. I feel it has to be what he is setting up, its only a matter of the details of how exactly it will work.
I always thought that the king's blood is valyrian blood or some specific bloodline. Everybody can be king... remember that melissandre can misunderstand the fire. Maybe Garth bloodline??
I do think there is a decent chance the reason "King's blood" is needed comes from just these old figures wanting their blood type fed to the trees and Garth is a good example because if the legends are true almost everyone in westeros is descended from him haha therefore it could be a situation where everyone can have kings blood. It is also possibly a case of power resides where men believe it resides so the more people value the sacrifice the more power it has
you sound like a youtuber i like but i can’t think of who… oh okay after a bit i’ve realized it is the elder scrolls youtuber Zaric Zhakaron. Don’t tell him bust i even like your voice slightly more. Great channel, happy to have found you btw!
It would be great if theory channels had dissertation defences like in academia. Other channels to have a live or edited critique of the theory from as many directions as possible then with the defence of the theory.
A flaw: agriculture based societies do not go on the assumption that ordinary rural women of no Great Family do not have sex before marriage - no matter what the official religious line is, that chastity stuff is for the women and girls of the propertied classes - except at tourneys, of course. Farms always need more farmhands.
If I remember correctly, it was the targaryens that ended the right of the first night in the books, specifically in fire and blood. I wonder if that has anything to do with the white walkers coming back
Just had a thought about the whole right to first night: you know how in some classic fairytales the evil witch or antagonist of some kind wants the first born on exchange to grant them a wish? Well I guess those sacrificed bastards are often the first born. They're sacrificed to the weir woods/wall to grant the wish of keeping the others out or the children or whoever, but as you said as long as this tradition lives on the magic is fulled
Your videos are excellent! One thing I noticed- the night’s watch oath talks about the horn that wakes the sleepers… wasn’t there some myth of a horn that could bring down the wall? And if so maybe the AC units inside the wall are the sleepers referred to in the oath?
So Ned is a partial failure as a northern lord - by being faithful to Caitlyn? Did his brother Brandon compensate in his lifetime? We know he got around.
Who's to say that all the babies left out for the Others or the Children are actually being killed as sacrifice? I'm reminded of the wheel of time books when I first read ASOIAF, spoilers ahead for that series if you haven't read up to the last few novels: There is a culture called the Aiel who send young men with the power to channel magic (which always ends up making them go insane which is why they have to be killed or their magic abilities get removed it's a long story) and they are sent to the north to "die". Throughout the whole series it's implied that all of them end up being killed but towards the end of the series you find out that the bad guys are actually recruiting them and using their powers in their army of evil baddies. So I'm wondering if all the babies who were left out as sacrifice might actually have been cared for by whoever is taking them, and they are being raised by them to serve some other purpose.
OK so couple of questions so far: if the warg doesn't work on the other side of the wall. How did the two guys brought through the wall come alive and attack Mormont and jon snow? Are the walkers in the walls able to still warg them? Or is it not warging with them? Also the wight they took to KL in the show? What about girl bastards? Assuming they're not left out in the snow/sand/rivers etc then they can't go to the watch? What if the nights watch die in the gift, North of the wall, or in the south like what's his name that was bringing Arya and Gendry North from KL? What about when they start burning the bodies. Trees in theory do survive burning, and burned matter is still good or fertile. So are you saying it doesn't matter how they died? The weirwood gets it's tax somehow. Also I know in the books the deserters head was sent back to the wall to Mormont, but do you think they maybe would bury them near a weirwood in the past and that's been lost?
If heared my share of batshit asoiaf theories in my time and this one is certainly among the crazier ones, but the point about Queen Alysanne abolishing the first night and other traditions fading away makes this one eerily convincing. This would mean that Aegon, in response to his dream, directly set in motion the events that he sought to prevent. As you would expect from a GRRM story.
I just don't think all the guys on the Wall have royal or noble blood. So is seems that the sacrifice wanted is just blood. And I don't think the Free Folk were "put there" in any sense. They are usually spread out all over the North, disorganized.
I think the basic ideas in these theories are pretty convincing. For example a weirwood network feeding on blood and wall being made of it and stuff like that but the details look like big mess. For example the bastards being named after where they are supposed to be left is a stretch and so are many other things.
The Prince Who Was Promised could be a reference to this as well. And the bastards wouldn't have to be greenseers if they are royal bastards. King's blood is potent as Melisandre clearly says & demonstrates. So ether way, they would be important to both The Children & The Others for their magically potent blood. Craster was allegedly a Targaryen(?) bastard & his incestuous practices would have kept the bloodlline pretty pure. So as The Children's magic was weakening, The Others' was getting stronger. Also, as more criminals & low born men were sent to the wall instead of royal bastards or highborn sons, the magic would not be as strong to power the protection of The Wall. ( I often wondered if all the civil wars & constant bloodshed wasn't caused by the weirwoods to basically feed itself once the sacrifices of old stopped)
Queen Alisayn banning first night was something children of forest couldn't predict. THat's why they coopted green seeers so they could predict stuff from then on. Maybe. Just made that up tbh.
So when jon snow died at the wall did the wall take his blood or eat him cause i remember him waking back up or did the children think of how to go around magic just in case magic brings sombody back
The tradition of the old men "going out to hunt" in the winter could also be a part of this, an elder lord collected up by the children ever now and then to go with all the babies.
15:08 But wouldn't that be in direct contradiction to the Nights Watch specifically burning the bodies of their fallen brothers? I'm not learned enough with the text to know if that's a tradition of the Night's Watch or something they started doing in more recent times as a reaction to the White Walkers.
I'm not sure about the weirwoods needing blood. I mean, what did they feed on before the CotF started sacrificing people them? Would they have relied on the occasional wolf or mountain lion bringing down a deer at the foot of a tree or murders in a grove and the CtoF noticed the trees grew better when that happened? How did blood sacrifice get started?
Whoa now that I think about it. Even in HOD Daemon is able to see the future only after the massacre he was responsible for . If the trees acts as a network then the blood that flowed nearby would flow by the tree which he touched.
Some of this is great, but if it's blood they want, why the celibacy? "I shall take no wife" still fits very well, but "father no children." sticks out like a sore thumb. Was that part added after the Night's King? If so, why?
@@augustonian3522 that is a very interesting idea, if children 'soak up' magic from their environment before they are born, it's not a perfect fit since most of that 'power' should logically return to the Wall when they die, but that might be a false assumption on my part, or the potential waste if a child managed to escape the system could be severe and that's why, very interesting!
i think you should develope more the idea of why would the wildlings be allowed north the danger of the others would be enough to keep the night watch and eventually every man dies no matter if by your roomate or by old age
Why are greenseers so coveted by the children? You’ve mentioned bloodraven’s post as a “center” for the children, but how does the existence of a greenseer tied to a weirdwood benefit the children as a whole?
i can just imagine george watching your videos, pulling his hair out because you keep guessing everything he has in his notes. i think you're the reason he always wears a hat in public
I don’t understand what the point of the wall is in this situation. Is growing a massive line of weirwoods, and tying a thousand others to them, really easier than hunting Others in the far north?
Its a Hard, unforgiving World and if you hide from it, or your childs, you invite death and decay itself upon the World. Face the pains of life or it will haunt you
The people in the wall it seems like they would be wildlings because it would explain why they would ever be on the other side of the wall and only cross at the very last they also got rid of the others previously without getting ride of the wall
why would the children betray the other like that tho? could it be bc they owed them a debt? like the other gave them powers and the children didn’t want to pay them back? a parallel being cersei not wanting to pay back the iron bank
So Craster does the same as the Fathers of Magical Bastards. So, could any of his offspring be the Children of the Forest? The CoTF created the Night King in the show, so did the NK/The Others inherit this from the CoTF and accept sacrifices for the same Gods?
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"The man who passes the sentence" bit is too perfect. A secret blood sacrifice hidden in a lesson about honor. Just. *chef's kiss*
This is really quite amazing. I had been listening to this video for the past 18 minutes and had to pause the video because of how blown away I was by this idea. Then I saw that your comment about it is the top comment on the video, so I guess I’m not alone in being floored by this idea.
I like to think there’s a guy in Winterfell yelling this stuff on the street
😂
Great comment lol
Instead of "The End Is Nigh" the dude has "You Bastards Are Food" sign
💀 💀 💀
"THE TREES ARE DRINKING BLOOD"
Im obsessed with these theories
So Hodor fed a stone to the well instead of a baby, like how Cronos was fed a stone instead of Zeus 🤔
Genius level parallel
Goes to show how well this theory holds up.
Yes! Nice!
Hodoooorrrrrrrrrrrr.
it wanted a Stone baby not a real stone hehe
I love this. The culture of honor being so characteristic of the North makes even more sense with this theory in mind. The Wall lapses into a place to send your thieves and bastards as a means of discarding them socially, but there's a dignity with the Night's Watch from back in the day that makes a lot more sense if dying on the Wall was a physical contribution to the safety of the realm. "It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it" combined with "It's a simple job, anyone can do it" makes this handy-dandy baseline for the worth of a person: if your contribution to society would be improved by using you for mulch, the Wall has you covered.
So when the free folk found out what the children were doing so many years ago they started burning their dead rather than power the wall and singers
It seems they do it more because of white walkers but I find it interesting that the existence of white walkers forces people to burn the bodies, thus taking away the food of weirwood trees. It makes the origin of walkers more confusing.
This is great insight keep up the great work. The practice of leaving a bastard of the first night in the “snow” had me think about all of the other bastard names. We know the children lived all throughout Westeros before mans arrival. In each place where the right of the first night was practiced they’d leave the possibly gifted children in the snow, by the rivers, on the hills, in the sand, on the stone, in flowers, or out in the storm.
One interesting thing is that John has a short and quick flashback where Ned intended to make a deal with the NightWatch in order for him to become the lord of an unused castle and have a few families to populate the Gift.
In other words, with this new line of Snow certainly following the stark traditions, there would be litteraly a little village of people living as sacrifices for the Wall and a potentially huge line of bastards/kings blood constantly feeding the wall.
That deal didn't have anything to do with Jon
I wrote a whole ass essay style theory about Gendel’s children actually being the children of the forest years ago. It ties in all the underground caverns being connected by tunnels and how the crypts of Winterfell, I believe, are connected to that network via the oldest, collapsed part. I think Jon is the “Last Hero” figure and his dream of being called in the crypts could be him finding the children of the forest.
❤
This is the best ASOIAF theory I've ever heard
17:50 was genuinely hilarious, I never really thought of it like that. But yeah, the Wall really is a horrible place filled with horrible people for a reason. If Jon really did get gobbled up by the Weirwood after getting stabbed it would be equally hilarious and DEFINITELY up GRRM's dark sense of humor. Sam was always his self insert at the wall and Tyrion his insert in general.
Ser..... you have kicked me in the balls with this line of discourse. If this Theory isn't true it damn well should be. well done. You have earned my sub.
This series is brilliant and Jon dying with his King's blood at the wall would help explain his pending resurrection...the magic of the children and Weirwoods.
MIND EXPLOSION
I personally find the proximity of a red priestess to be the most probable cause of Jon's resurrection. Thoras of Myr resurrected Ser Berrick Dondarion multiple times. Lady Melisandre is a red priestess on the wall with the Mannis. I also believe Jon's death technically ends his vow to The Watch, so I'm curious how grrm plays it out.
I think Preston Jacobs have also theorized that theres also Weirwood trees deep deep down under the House of Black and White, a place where so many people willingly off themselves.
The roots of this network reach really deep, like, bottom of oceans deep to reach other continents.
So the surname of bastards is literally where they're supposed to be abandoned as babies. It's pretty dark.
After Westeros becomes modern and urbanized, bastard surnames will become "Dumpster" "Sewers" and "Alley".
I have never commented on a post before but I am so excited by these revelations. I think you have absolutely worked out the mystery of the novel.
I'm thinking we could have further evidence of glass candles and first nights being linked when we consider Varys account of him being cut and he hears a voice. Could the sorcerer be using Varys blood as a sacrifice to use a glass candle to communicate with someone? We know Varys is an orphan and potentially another first night by blow but from the Targaryen blood line.. just an idea!
I have watched a lot of Game of Thrones RUclips content lately and seeing a few different channels, and your channel has cleared everything up, great explaining! Thank you 🙏🏼
"We all shed our blood for the Watch..." -Jon Snow, Samwelll I, AFFC.
Good stuff, man! Keep it up 👍
Regarding pacts/making deals: Cersei’s dream of her childhood encounter with Maggy the Frog, I think, is at least in part an allegory or metaphor for what happened when the CotF made these arrangements with the First Men: Maggy requires her blood in exchange for knowledge gained through magic, everything in the tent is green, there is so much description in that chapter that I am sure there’s plenty to unravel. There are other similar deals that occur throughout the story, like Mirri and Dany sacrificing the horse (and Rhaego), although Mirri isn’t a true CotF, her symbolism seems to put her in that role and there is definitely treachery there at the cost of the non-CotF figure). Then there’s Mel, basically tapping Stannis’ life force so she can make shadow assassins for him, all exchanges of human sacrifice in some form for magic. And we are told that all magic was rooted in blood, George kind of spells it out, doesn’t he?
I do have a video on the to do list with that direct topic but I think you pretty much nailed it. The main if not only source of magic in the world seems to be life. The making of life being the miracle and therefore life itself is the thing has magic. Which can be used as blood or shadows or burnings. Which is basically blood anyway. Fire and blood. All of it comes back to life/blood/growth. Whatever term you want to use for the same thing.
Damn bro I've consumed 10000 hours of asoiaf content and you're finding lots of things I hadn't seen before
I think when Patchface says, "Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish. Up here the young fish teach the old fish." he might be talking about this. The Old Gods eat the young and seem to be undead.
Patchface is a thrall of the Deep Ones, not the children of the forest
@proudsaiyanprince2651 patchface is a prophet. Doesnt matter who he represents or not, or who gave him his gift; he still sees things.
When he says "under the sea", that means "In my visions"
@@proudsaiyanprince2651"Deep Ones" havent you watched the video?
Ive always been meh on got. But when its broken down like this i LOVE it. Martin may have buried stuff too deep for me lol
Ok, so pulling from memory here, so feel free to correct anything I am misremembering, BUT: I watched a video on the Deep Ones in ASOIAF, and it got me thinking about a universal magic that ALL of the in-universe magics pull from. Sort of like the maybe physical, maybe extradimensional sea of darkness wayyyy wayyyy deep down in the earth and its "rules" underlying blood magic, COTF magic, fire magic, ice magic, greensight, warging, etc. (I am imagining the dark ocean under the mines of moria that gandalf and the balrog fell into - the one with the eldritch monsters gandalf feared talking about)
Basically some eldritch force that accepts bargains in exchange for some of its power. Instead of blood sacrifice being some sort of innate mechanic in ASOIAF like physics, the children of the forest sacrifice to this eldritch force in exchange for their magic. Each magic system would be different cultures discovering a way to bargain with this eldritch force or deep one because, no matter where they are, that deep one is always underneath them. I remember reading ages ago a theory about the Others (or something sounding just them) existing in the far east, past those giant black towers. The theory was basically the far east wrapping around to the north of westeros on a globe, but WHAT IF the eldritch magic causing the others and all these magics is below EVERYONE's feet EVERYWHERE.
I wonder if the parallels between the children and squishers, red priests, etc. are less them ALL being the same thing (all children with glamours, all secret deep ones, etc.) and is really several ancient groups that have been twisted by millennia of interaction with the eldritch force (the red priests being more recent than the children or squishers). The force could be beyond mortal notions of malevolence, and instead simply by its nature "corrupting" those imbued with its power. The children, the squishers, or whatever uses this magic could have been ancient humans that interacted with this Old God long before even the first men showed up in westeros.
The weirwoods could function as eyes/limbs for the old one such that it can consume whatever it needs to. The chlidren could have created the weirwoods whose roots pull from this ocean (might be this ocean that the wall gets its water/warding power from - thats why it blocks dragons too) and access its magic, and inadvertently alerted an eldritch force to their existence and even they don't grasp that it is directly tapped into their hive mind. Bloodraven could even be some sort of avatar of this entity/force/god, and is basically trying to get the blood flowing again to feed this old god. The children sought its power for their own use, and are effectively in too deep with some entity now thirsting for blood it had no means of accessing before. Now that it has weirwoods to observe the world, it can influence the world to its own end, and this would all stem from a people seeking power for - from their perspective - perfectly justifiable reasons.
Another note: In a video about the Hammer of Dorne, where the children sank dorne / raised the ocean around it, the video author mentioned the children calling their spells "songs". This played into an idea that the others and the targaryens were created by the children in a SONG of ice and fire. The greenseers and wargs being turned into "singers" might imply the children use them to amplify their own magic. It could even be that the children use humans to create more beings carrying magic COTF blood to use in their spells/songs or to sacrifice to the old one.
I wonder if the motivation and sort of thematic tie-in to the people-focused nature of the story is that the others were a song/spell the children used to fight the first men and it effectively backfired because they were meddling in forces they could not comprehend (parallel to Dany and the witch with drogo and her would-be first born child). The children could have tried to rectify the others mistake by creating "fire-imbued greenseers" and made the targaryens (who would later go on to undermine the entire setup between the children and the old one). So either maliciously or just by existing as some universal force, the old one would have fed the children all the proverbial rope they would need for their own undoing. It simply is power that can be claimed, but claiming power is never without consequence (cough cough major theme cough cough).
I think this idea of some force/entity representing the dangerous and consquential, but not necessarily innately evil nature of power, would resonate well with the story's themes. It is less about some universal evil that the good guys must defeat, and more so a story about people wielding power they do not fully understand, the reasons they do so, and the consequences for their actions. It does not matter the justification, whether children fending off colonizers, or Bobby B wiping out the targaryens, the use of power itself has consequences, and the compelling part of the story is how these characters grapple with the decisions/consequences of if/how they use the power available to them.
tl;dr I think a dark, evil ocean at the core of the world deep, deep below the surface is both literal and the source of all the different magics we see in the story, but also a metaphor for the core theme of the story - that being the relationship between people and power. How do people decide how/if to use the power available to them, and how do they grapple with the consequences of their choices. I do not think this eldritch ocean, or whatever old one living in it is necessarily malevolent, but by the nature of the power it grants, it doles out consequences for wielding whatever power it grants or is drawn from it. You can maybe minimize the cost by paying up front with a magic baby, but use of power in the books never comes with some clean-cut, 1-to-1 exchange. Use of power is by its nature consequential, and each perspective will come with its own justification for wielding power regardless.
8:35 interesting that they use the term burned out. Not burned down made me think of all lights going out. Think of the hell these undying ones are going through being and endless observer not capable of interacting or being part of the world you are forced to endlessly observe. I am so glad I found your channel very informative.
That is a good catch, I could see burned out being used for a couple reasons. It is like a life fire burns out upon death or how you have to burn the roots out or the tree comes back. Maybe just burning the tree down wasn't enough at times the roots regrew a new one. Either way burned out is an interesting choice compared to burned down.
there are plenty of Hart trees left south of the neck, we know of Riverrun, Highgardern and Storm's End (Mel burned it) had them.
also one of the old ways was the blood eagle, and execution was done at the Hart Tree, where all of the blood is drained
Wow, this makes a ton of sense. Looking forward to checking out more of your vids. Random Internet Guy gave you a shout out, and you have a new sub.
Glad you like it! Big Fan of RIG as well
I have often thought that the Weirwoods are all connected across Westeros underground almost live a giant hive mind.
Best theory I listened to in a while. Your channel is underrated. Keep up the great work.
The Doomsday Switch scenario is great - really hope it turns out true. It'd give so much more meaning to the Big Bad Evil. One thing I would add is that I imagine the children of the forest, despite their hive mind, might have not been of one mind (pun intended) on how to deal with the First Men. Some were willing to take them down with them in vengeance, creating the Others, others found a way to coexist, leading to the creation of the Wall and all those customs. And the reason the purpose of those customs had to be kept secret might have been that equally, some Men thought they could just fight the threat and wouldn't play along in their effective subjugation.
PS: Also, where's the Part III you talk about at the end, delving into the narrative implications of this theory from an auctorial perspective? That sounds really interesting.
It amazes me that with every new piece of evidence you introduce, the strength of your theory grows stronger and stronger. The seed is strong.....
Thinking about Ned cleaning his sword by the Heart Tree. Why would he not just deal with the traitor right next to the tree rather than the few drops provided by cleaning the sword?
You are starting something with videooo topic!....This was good and very well put......I've had my thoughs, twists, ideas about ASOIF but this is 🔓🧠💡💯☝🏿.
So the Nights Watch culture is a bit like the Grail Ritual from Fate - it’s a subterfuge masquerading as a conflict that’s actually one big sacrifice to boost magical power. Neat.
Really good. Lol at your laugh when you said "we're just gonna see what happens".
"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."
did not expect to see a Marx quote here but hello comrade
May have already covered this, but could the Night's Watch Oath line "(I am) the horn than wakes the sleepers" be reference to the Horn of Jorramun waking and freeing your theorised sleeping wall/tree-bound others? You mention in one video the link between Stannis sleeping and his shadow, and shadows of the 'sleeping' Undying ones, so maybe it's a combination of all that symbolism, once again implying the need to free the wall-bound others, per your theory. Then again I'm not sure why that would be the Nigh's Watch oath as they are surely doing the opposite in their role and sustaining the wall. Or maybe I am just reaching!
Just thinking aloud here and might have to think on this more but what if the sleepers in the wall are woken when the Nights watch signals an attack and the wall "defends itself" to get blood... The horn that wakes the sleepers could wake the wall beings to fight and kill whoever is attacking the wall
The Andals never conquered the North, and yet House Glover of the First Men has built their castle in the deep woods. Idk what this means, but its there.
This is a good catch and worth a deeper look. My initial thought was to see if it was a newer built castle (as in after the pact was forgotten or the children were gone from the deepwood) but it is very old. Like age of heroes old. Makes me think perhaps "Deepwood Motte" would be built just on the edge of the true deepwoods so it guards it and makes the lords close to the children's domain in the old days. That could make sense of the name and still fit the terms of the pact. But all of that is just speculation on my part.
Good catch though in this context it is interesting.
The First Men only used bronze yet the Stark Kings of Winter in the Age of Heroes wore crowns of bronze and iron. They subjugated each and every other king to dominate the North and they slaughtered the Warg King and made House Greenwood flee the North. According to tradition every Stark king was burried with an iron sword. Sure sounds to me that the Starks had something to do with the Andals to get that iron.
The First Men only used bronze yet the Stark Kings of Winter in the Age of Heroes wore crowns of bronze and iron. They subjugated each and every other king to dominate the North and they slaughtered the Warg King and made House Greenwood flee the North. According to tradition every Stark king was burried with an iron sword. Sure sounds to me that the Starks had something to do with the Andals to get that iron.
So much for " The North remembers"!
My New Favorite asoiaf RUclips Streamer... You're a breath of fresh air Michael! Love your work and eagerly awaiting all your future theories and thoughts...🤙
Upon rewatching this many motivations and timeline inconsistencies clicked into place. Many theorists look to the Nights King and Corpse Queen as the origin of the others but it's always sat wrong with me because how can there be a Nights Watch and a Wall before the others? Wtf were they watching?
Also, there is some debate in the timeline on exactly how or when the Long Night happened and if there was more than one. With George confirming the Long night happened 5000 years ago, not 8000. Which coincides with the arrival of the Andals. This also melds with it being unclear about when exactly the Nights Watch was founded.
Rewatching this video everything clicked into a perfect timeline in my mind and Idk how to explain how this, so I'm gonna lay it out as best I can.
Children: (minding own business with giants)
First men: Hey, nice continent you have here. We think we'll live here.
Children: Ugh I don't think so, peep this, we're gonna create these things called The Others and they're gonna fuck you up. Also we're gonna do the hammer of the waters and try to keep anymore of you from coming here.
First men: we would very much like for you to not do that.
Children: Well we already did, but, if you promise to follow the old ways and give us lots of blood sacrifices and unwanted babies we will make a giant wall fueled by said blood sacrifice as a fail safe to ensure you stick to the agreement otherwise the wall comes down and the others kill you all.
First men: All hail the old gods!
The Children Tack some people to trees and the wall is created. The first men form the original nights watch. The children and the first men live in harmony.
All of this happens before recorded history. (Put a pin in that)
Then, the Andals come. With them they bring their religion, their writing, and begin burning Weirwoods and abolishing the old ways.
It's around this time or before that the tale of The Nights King and Corpse queen takes place. They were a part of the original prehistoric Nights Watch which existed to offer sacrifices to the Heart Tree of the wall. This did not sit well with Andals sensibilities and he was defeated, wiped from history, and retroactively portrayed as a villain.
All these actions weaken the magic of the wall enough that the others can breach it, ushering in the Long Night.
This whole time the others living north of the Wall have become quite pissed off at the Children for nailing them to trees so by the time they breach the wall all hell breaks loose as the Others go full on assault in an attempt to kill the Children and the Wierwoods to set themselves free.
Then everyone bands together from all over the known world and figures out a way to get them back north. A new pact is made with less desirable terms for the children than before. The Nights Watch is reestablished. (Now with historical documentation) The others are driven back north. The wall is repaired or replaced. The old ways, the pact, the children, all fade to memory and legend.
Fast forward to current times. Blood sacrifices have dried up, barely any unwanted babies to be had, nights watch attendance at an all time low, and Mel's running around the south burning up weirwoods. The magic of the wall is weakening and the others are even more pissed then they were before and they still want free.
That brings us up to date. I'm curious what you think about how this fits in with what you've been saying in this video series or if you have anything to add. Apologies for tons of misspellings and bad grammar. LoL
I would say that timeline is a plausible one. I think the best we can do is make plausible guesses at certain things at the moment. But a lot of the inconsistencies with the in world historic record seem to point to something along the lines of what you suggest.
I do want to try do a deep dive myself at some point and try put together a video on a possible timeline but I have a lot of research to do before I would attempt it.
One thing I have been toying with the idea of and wanna talk about soon is the possibility others we see are essentially shadows of the people in the wall. Meaning like you nail up a person and meld their spirit with the weirwood and create an undying physical body which you can use the power of to shadow bind. Then perhaps you can make these icy shadows we see in the prologue. If so it's possible the others we see in the prologue are shadows created with the purpose to attack mankind, powered by the bodies stuck in the wall. Similar to how the shadow mel birthed had a purpose to kill renly these might be shadows bound with a purpose or goal.
If so then I am wondering if there was a moment when the children created others with the intent to destroy mankind if man could have somehow learned how to do this and strapped some bodies to weirwoods themselves and made shadows with the intent of destroying the children. Suddenly both sides have others out there after them and then both sides come to make the pact because of mutually assured destruction. Building the wall together after the pact because both sides are threatened by the shadows that their war unleashed into the world.
It would kinda make sense then as to why their are others and why they built a wall still. Rather than get rid of them after the pact they kept them there because the mutually assured destruction was a part of the pact the same way we kep our nukes to enforce power even though they could destroy the world. Also then the wall originally would have likely been used to tie in the ruling families into power because they can subjugate people with their magic warg powers and also the threat of the others who they keep away. Not unlike politicians in our real world often otherize people or even try build walls as a way to build their own power base within their own people.
This would allow GRRM to have his cake and eat it too, in that the others could be sympathetic humans stuck in the wall and otherized by society, but also the shadows we see in the prologue are evil and need to be fought and defeated. Or at least fought off until you can solve the problem of the corrupt heart tree and all the people strapped there. Might make it more exciting than just having them be fully sympathetic and that idea could work into the historic timeline imo.
Like did the last hero strap his companions to weirwoods when he learned how the children did it and that is why they all died and suddenly he saved mankind and there was a pact? I have no idea but the timeline kinda works and the magic roughly seems to work. Still maybe a few flaws to work out but something I have been toying with.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I'd be interested in your take on the timeline. The difficult thing with timeline theories is it's mostly speculative and one has to sift through and find the parts that are practically important to the story George is trying to tell.
Where the theories in this video series excel is they will absolutely 💯 come up in the books. Once u realize there are others in the wall George is slapping u directly in the face with it.
Yea well before I would try speculate on the timeline I will have a video out about the themes and how well it all works, the wall makes the others because of course it does. Like Hadrians wall made others of the scots beyond. In interviews he brings up Hadrian's wall and the effect it has when you declare somewhere the end of the world how suddenly there could be all sorts of monsters there. The wall makes the others works so well. I feel the same it all just hits hard when you see it. I feel it has to be what he is setting up, its only a matter of the details of how exactly it will work.
OHHH THAT"S WHY THEY"RE CALLED SNOW. oh my GOD
Excellent analysis. So much in the story makes more sense now.
I always thought that the king's blood is valyrian blood or some specific bloodline. Everybody can be king... remember that melissandre can misunderstand the fire. Maybe Garth bloodline??
I do think there is a decent chance the reason "King's blood" is needed comes from just these old figures wanting their blood type fed to the trees and Garth is a good example because if the legends are true almost everyone in westeros is descended from him haha therefore it could be a situation where everyone can have kings blood.
It is also possibly a case of power resides where men believe it resides so the more people value the sacrifice the more power it has
Davos remarks that Naarth’s lack of marriage tradition as “liberating”. No bastards for the wall 🤷🏻♀️
you sound like a youtuber i like but i can’t think of who… oh okay after a bit i’ve realized it is the elder scrolls youtuber Zaric Zhakaron. Don’t tell him bust i even like your voice slightly more. Great channel, happy to have found you btw!
It would be great if theory channels had dissertation defences like in academia. Other channels to have a live or edited critique of the theory from as many directions as possible then with the defence of the theory.
A flaw: agriculture based societies do not go on the assumption that ordinary rural women of no Great Family do not have sex before marriage - no matter what the official religious line is, that chastity stuff is for the women and girls of the propertied classes - except at tourneys, of course.
Farms always need more farmhands.
The ending of children having to be sacrificed for the sake of mankind would definitely be bittersweet...not that I think this will be the outcome
I could definitely see George writing that story! Maybe not this time, but he is NOT afraid to go dark and darker and darkest!
I found you. I am here now. Be ready for your channel to glow up dear. See you in the comment section.
If I remember correctly, it was the targaryens that ended the right of the first night in the books, specifically in fire and blood. I wonder if that has anything to do with the white walkers coming back
What if the tunnels are remnants of an old root system?
Just had a thought about the whole right to first night: you know how in some classic fairytales the evil witch or antagonist of some kind wants the first born on exchange to grant them a wish? Well I guess those sacrificed bastards are often the first born. They're sacrificed to the weir woods/wall to grant the wish of keeping the others out or the children or whoever, but as you said as long as this tradition lives on the magic is fulled
That's not a wood's witch, that's just some Goonies looking for One Eyed Willie's gold.
Your videos are excellent! One thing I noticed- the night’s watch oath talks about the horn that wakes the sleepers… wasn’t there some myth of a horn that could bring down the wall? And if so maybe the AC units inside the wall are the sleepers referred to in the oath?
So Ned is a partial failure as a northern lord - by being faithful to Caitlyn?
Did his brother Brandon compensate in his lifetime? We know he got around.
Who's to say that all the babies left out for the Others or the Children are actually being killed as sacrifice? I'm reminded of the wheel of time books when I first read ASOIAF, spoilers ahead for that series if you haven't read up to the last few novels:
There is a culture called the Aiel who send young men with the power to channel magic (which always ends up making them go insane which is why they have to be killed or their magic abilities get removed it's a long story) and they are sent to the north to "die". Throughout the whole series it's implied that all of them end up being killed but towards the end of the series you find out that the bad guys are actually recruiting them and using their powers in their army of evil baddies.
So I'm wondering if all the babies who were left out as sacrifice might actually have been cared for by whoever is taking them, and they are being raised by them to serve some other purpose.
Omg dude this is 🔥
Thrashing around at the bottom of the well: a Singer running to save the potential baby thrown in the well?
Ok. Some of this is pretty compelling.
OK so couple of questions so far: if the warg doesn't work on the other side of the wall. How did the two guys brought through the wall come alive and attack Mormont and jon snow? Are the walkers in the walls able to still warg them? Or is it not warging with them?
Also the wight they took to KL in the show?
What about girl bastards? Assuming they're not left out in the snow/sand/rivers etc then they can't go to the watch?
What if the nights watch die in the gift, North of the wall, or in the south like what's his name that was bringing Arya and Gendry North from KL?
What about when they start burning the bodies. Trees in theory do survive burning, and burned matter is still good or fertile. So are you saying it doesn't matter how they died? The weirwood gets it's tax somehow.
Also I know in the books the deserters head was sent back to the wall to Mormont, but do you think they maybe would bury them near a weirwood in the past and that's been lost?
So,Jaime Lannister broke guest rite by harming a Stark of Winterfell,correct?
Yup that would track to me as broken guest right
If heared my share of batshit asoiaf theories in my time and this one is certainly among the crazier ones, but the point about Queen Alysanne abolishing the first night and other traditions fading away makes this one eerily convincing. This would mean that Aegon, in response to his dream, directly set in motion the events that he sought to prevent. As you would expect from a GRRM story.
I feel like part 1 was supported with a lot of concrete book knowledge and this one seems like a lot of conjecture
Mostly agree but the right of the first night happened in more than just the North.
I just don't think all the guys on the Wall have royal or noble blood. So is seems that the sacrifice wanted is just blood.
And I don't think the Free Folk were "put there" in any sense. They are usually spread out all over the North, disorganized.
I feel like the oath of the nights watch harms this theory. Having no wife and no children feels counterintuitive to the ideal of bloodmaxxing.
I think the basic ideas in these theories are pretty convincing. For example a weirwood network feeding on blood and wall being made of it and stuff like that but the details look like big mess. For example the bastards being named after where they are supposed to be left is a stretch and so are many other things.
That's the main issue I have with this theory.
The Prince Who Was Promised could be a reference to this as well. And the bastards wouldn't have to be greenseers if they are royal bastards. King's blood is potent as Melisandre clearly says & demonstrates. So ether way, they would be important to both The Children & The Others for their magically potent blood. Craster was allegedly a Targaryen(?) bastard & his incestuous practices would have kept the bloodlline pretty pure. So as The Children's magic was weakening, The Others' was getting stronger. Also, as more criminals & low born men were sent to the wall instead of royal bastards or highborn sons, the magic would not be as strong to power the protection of The Wall. ( I often wondered if all the civil wars & constant bloodshed wasn't caused by the weirwoods to basically feed itself once the sacrifices of old stopped)
Amazing bro
Queen Alisayn banning first night was something children of forest couldn't predict. THat's why they coopted green seeers so they could predict stuff from then on.
Maybe.
Just made that up tbh.
Brother, you cracked the code. How do you feel?
So when jon snow died at the wall did the wall take his blood or eat him cause i remember him waking back up or did the children think of how to go around magic just in case magic brings sombody back
The tradition of the old men "going out to hunt" in the winter could also be a part of this, an elder lord collected up by the children ever now and then to go with all the babies.
15:08 But wouldn't that be in direct contradiction to the Nights Watch specifically burning the bodies of their fallen brothers? I'm not learned enough with the text to know if that's a tradition of the Night's Watch or something they started doing in more recent times as a reaction to the White Walkers.
I'm not sure about the weirwoods needing blood. I mean, what did they feed on before the CotF started sacrificing people them? Would they have relied on the occasional wolf or mountain lion bringing down a deer at the foot of a tree or murders in a grove and the CtoF noticed the trees grew better when that happened? How did blood sacrifice get started?
Whoa now that I think about it. Even in HOD Daemon is able to see the future only after the massacre he was responsible for . If the trees acts as a network then the blood that flowed nearby would flow by the tree which he touched.
Some of this is great, but if it's blood they want, why the celibacy? "I shall take no wife" still fits very well, but "father no children." sticks out like a sore thumb. Was that part added after the Night's King? If so, why?
It might be possible that if you have children on or near the wall when their born they take some of the magic from the wall
@@augustonian3522 that is a very interesting idea, if children 'soak up' magic from their environment before they are born, it's not a perfect fit since most of that 'power' should logically return to the Wall when they die, but that might be a false assumption on my part, or the potential waste if a child managed to escape the system could be severe and that's why, very interesting!
Craster leaving his sons out to die might also be more evidence of this tradition
This blew my mind
And Stone is also a bastard name! So the stone is such an incredible metaphor for a bastard baby
Good Stuff.
i think you should develope more the idea of why would the wildlings be allowed north the danger of the others would be enough to keep the night watch and eventually every man dies no matter if by your roomate or by old age
Why are greenseers so coveted by the children? You’ve mentioned bloodraven’s post as a “center” for the children, but how does the existence of a greenseer tied to a weirdwood benefit the children as a whole?
I love this theory
Going after the Children of the Forest like a criminal psychologist 😂❤
i can just imagine george watching your videos, pulling his hair out because you keep guessing everything he has in his notes.
i think you're the reason he always wears a hat in public
I don’t understand what the point of the wall is in this situation. Is growing a massive line of weirwoods, and tying a thousand others to them, really easier than hunting Others in the far north?
Its a Hard, unforgiving World and if you hide from it, or your childs, you invite death and decay itself upon the World.
Face the pains of life or it will haunt you
The people in the wall it seems like they would be wildlings because it would explain why they would ever be on the other side of the wall and only cross at the very last they also got rid of the others previously without getting ride of the wall
Amazing theory. Mayhaps...
why would the children betray the other like that tho? could it be bc they owed them a debt? like the other gave them powers and the children didn’t want to pay them back? a parallel being cersei not wanting to pay back the iron bank
What gave power to the weirwoods before the first men arrived?
So Craster does the same as the Fathers of Magical Bastards. So, could any of his offspring be the Children of the Forest? The CoTF created the Night King in the show, so did the NK/The Others inherit this from the CoTF and accept sacrifices for the same Gods?
Soooo Jon’s blood is now in the wall.
That is a very interesting implication I hadn't really thought deeply about but you are right
If this is true wont the walls be strengthened after the wilding attack on castle black? Many wildlings died climbing the wall
Why would we ever think that the Children were one day "cool" with this new race of people occupying their land...hmmm, sounds familiar tbh.
I like the theory that the Jus Prima Noctis allows them to propagate the warg blood
This is what Craster is doing, but it's the White Walkers that take the children 😮
THE. BEST. 🔥❄️🍻
Are these sacrificed babies than "the prince that was promissed"?
26:20 Well... is it a _bad_ message? I'm sure the ancient Mesoamericans would've definitely appreciated it.