Yes! I think Dorne was behind saving Dany and Viserys! Calling it before I see the video! The lemon tree secret. Also holding out hope for tin foil Daenerys=Ashara Dayne + Aerys
Sorry, no. Please make the content available to everyone. I'd rather donate money directly to you, than sign up for some service im not going to touch. If I was working, id be a patron. But, pandemic. Quarantine. Life sucks, need more ASX.
yeah I hate it when half the video is sponsorship and begging for likes.... I just skip skip...where's the video XD especially when it's a new channel and I have no connection to the youtuber. I just ignore those channels.
Ellaria Sand's revision was even worse; going from outright opposition to the Sand snakes and their plot for "vengeance" in the books to suddenly being the one leading them in the Show.
If George manages to finish the books. HBO should make an animated series that is very accurate to the books. The last two seasons of GOT pissed me off. I want to see Arianne, Young Griff, lady stoneheart etc...
GoT did Ellaria dirty. She was the voice of reason, and one of the few peace seeking characters in the series, and they transformed her into a vengeance hungry idiot.
Idiot how? She would have gotten everything she wanted if not for one blunder at the absolute last second, which was siding with Dany instead of marching her whole host to KL right away
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Yeah, the whole Dany alliance isn't gonna work now (they'll obviously side with Aegon). Dragon Lady should've made an alliance when she had the chance.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 An idiot for thinking Oberyn was murdered. An idiot for enabling his daughters’ deluded vengeance. An idiot for risking war from Dorne because her fck buddy lost a fight. An idiot for one cringey yaaas queeeen moment after another All her appeal as a character evaporated after Oberyn’s death. So did her acting ability
@@tannerjablowski3192 whys it deluded? even if oberyn wasnt murdered, Elia was. and ellaria would have been on the winning side of a queen who now loves her had things all gone according to plan. risking war? again she joined the side that had 3 dragons and 100k dothraki. whos risking what again? not to mention dorne is notoriously unconquerable. Cersei had no real plan to retailate. Doran in the books is faaaar more idiotic and braindead
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Either an alliance with Robb or Stannis would’ve worked. They’re upcoming alliance with Aegon will work against The Lannisters but not against Daenerys.
Book Sand Snakes: The Lannisters killed our father and aunt, so let's kill the Lannisters! Show Sand Snakes: The Lannisters killed our father and aunt, so let's kill our family!
"It isn't clear what Oberyn and Doran's plan was here." Doran had no part in it, it was Oberyn being Oberyn. I believe Tyrion pieces together his simple reasoning in the books. If he wins, he exacts vengeance on the mountain for his sister and her children. If he loses, he knows Dorne will be inflamed by his death and his own daughters will try to rally them to war, something he'd gladly be a martyr for - and as we know, this very nearly happens. In Oberyn's mind there was no losing outcome, if only his cautious brother didn't intercede.
Doran likely knew Oberyn would do everything he did in King's Landing. They knew each other very well, Oberyn visited him more than his own children. The only snag was Oberyn demanded the Mountain's confession too much, otherwise he would have exonerated a grateful Tyrion and defeated the Lannister monolith. Clegane died anyway in the night.
I agree that this was just Oberyn acting on his own, but I think that if he had got the dying Mountain to confesses that he murdered his sister and children on the orders of Tywin Lannister, then he would have killed Tywin then and there at the duel. Remember the whole audience is watching, with Tywin in the front row, the moment the Mountain admits he did it on Tywin's order, Oberyn throws his spear and kills Tywin. There is uproar, maybe Oberyn is killed next, (as risk he was willing to take) but perhaps not, with Tywin dead, Tyrion exonerated and chaos, perhaps the watching nobles, not all support the Lannisters, might take a different path. It's one of those 'where men believe power lies' moments. But sadly, Oberyn got to close, the Mountain killed him, and then Tywin quickly seizes the initiative and declares Tyron guilt (when you could argue it was a draw, as both champions seem to die).
It is said that Doran and Oberyn worked together, so Oberyn would not do anything against their plan. He was probably sure he could win. And it was his plan from the beggining to poison Tywin and then fight with mountain in his own trial. And he wanted to start a war? Why not immediately kill his whole family by himself?
@@Robert-ov1wi I still don't buy 'tywin was poisoned'. Icky decomposition is a weak piece of evidence. I feel like the motivation for the theory is an emotional Tyrion fan thing, a desire to smooth the edges of Tyrion murdering Tywin in cold blood. 'Oh he saved his father from a long painful death.' logic. I feel like Tyrion son of Aerys is motivated by the same reasoning... and let's be honest, smoothing Tyrion's edges worked so well in the show.
@@davidlewis5312 It's the only theory I know that explains Oberyn behavior, and there are several hints that Tywin was poisoned. Also for me Tyrion has nothing to do with it. That "Oh he saved..." thing seems ridicioules.
really bcs not much happens imo even though the Dorne and Iron Island scenes are legit my favourite. You could take dorne out of the story and it wouldn't make a difference. Queensmaker plot was dud that changes nothing and so was How to Steal a Dragon. I really wish they had more of an impact
@@antoineturgeon1437 Barristan Selmy confirms he is dead 3 days after he is burned. He was placed in Dany's own bed and personally attended to by Missandei, but the wounds were just too great- neither Barristan or Missandei are liars or capable ones so he is dead for real. Barristan also sends the two knights escorting Quentyn to negotiate with the Tattered Prince as well as giveing them a ship with Quentyn's charred bones. yep, dead
I mean the Quentyn plan is like the ultimate 'not reading the room properly' in probably the whole book. Imagine how quickly things would have gone all Fire and Blood in Westeros if Doran had sent Oberdyn instead. Dany likes her men dangerous and charismatic and the Red Viper is probably the most of the lot in the show.
Not a terrible idea, but Oberyn is like, in his 40's. Not that age-miss-matched marriages don't happen in medieval fantasy all the time, including ASOIAF, but that usually happens out of necessity. Securing finances, or claiming rights to lands and titles, that sort of thing. However suave and cool Oberyn was, I doubt Dany would go for him anymore than she did Quentyn, especially since she already had her hands tied as it was.
@@MrGeorgeFlorcus That and Oberyn has been a polyamorous womanizer his entire life. I somehow doubt that Daenerys is sort of woman that is interested in sharing. Also given that he's a thrill seeker, he might just go cheating Daenerys because he finds the idea of getting caught and cruelly executed exhilarating. To be fair, there's SOME thrills even he doesn't explore. When he's suggested Cersei, Oberyn says he'd rather jump into a bed with 100 scorpions.
I always liked how Dorne started out as the main enemies of the Targaryens but in the current events of the books they are their primary supporters still in Westeros
Also, the House Baratheon was born (and rise) thanks to House Targaryen, as Orys Baratheon was probably Aegon The Conqueror's bastard brother. Centuries later, House Baratheon destroyed House Targaryen to the ashes and crown themselves kings of the Seven Kingdoms. Here, Emperor Palpatine would say his words: "Ironic".
One of my favourite facts about Oberyn is that his duel with Lord Edar Yronwood is a lot more controversial than just “he (might) have used poison”. Due to Oberyn’s age, it was agreed that the duel wasn’t to the death, but to the first cut (rather merciful, given that the former is hardly uncommon). While both combatants got cut, Lord Edgar’s festered and he died. A lot of people focus on the supposed use of poison as part of Oberyn’s fighting style, but I’ve always appreciated the fact that the guy poisoned an opponent in a specifically NONLETHAL duel. It says a lot about him.
Oberyn is lowkey borderline evil. He describes himself as "bloodthirsty". He started a mercenary company, but not because he needed money (he's a goddamn prince of Dorne) but apparently for the sheer fun of violence. He hit Obara's mother (Obara says he "gave my mother the back of his hand across the face, so she began to weep"). And he, y'know, raised the sorts of children who like to poison and murder innocent children.
I think Doran missed his biggest chance at revenge against the Lannisters by not aligning himself with north and the river lands. He is too cautious. Dorne North & riverlands vs westernlands and The reach
It would have been especially effective right when they needed it most; around the time of the Battle of the Blackwater, if Doran had made common cause with the North, they could have struck up north and west, into the Reach and Westerlands, at a time when both of their armies were out of position. They could have had an absolute heyday, looting coffers, and capturing uncountable hostages, not to mention the strategic advantage of holding so many important castles.
Revenge and Independence are two different things. However, you are right since Martin indirectly tells us in the books that Doran’s flaw is that he is too cautious.
For real, I think the reach wouldn't support lannisters anymore when Dorne would fight them too, I mean why should you partner with a group that is alone against 3 other groups?
I love how you dismiss the show's portrayals of Doran and the Sand Snakes by not using the actors' photos and instead choosing to depict them with drawings proximating their book resemblance. Show Doran and Sand Snakes ended up being garbage, though the actors that played them were quite good and Doran especially was a spot on casting choice. We can all thank D&D, for such wasted source potential because they just wanted to play with special effects and pyrotechnics, like the spoiled men-children, they turned out to be. They kind of forgot that this show used to be cerebral above all else.
@Oussamatha You are absolutely right. They did no justice to the actresses. It would be so satisfying if they tried, at least a little, to make them look and feel like their book counterparts. They are so interesting characters in the books, especially Nym and Tyene. I swear, every time I hear the bad pussy line the cringe becomes tangible, like the sticky sweat of a neckbeard. Seriously this line is like something out of a perv's homebrew DnD campaign or fanfic (The last 4 seasons make much more sense in this context, don't they?). I really hope the Tyene actress bounces back from this dumpster fire.
I did like a little verbal sort of double take, I was like but hang on, you didn-- ohhhhh... right. Okay, I see the game you play, boy. I was also totally expecting to see another picture of Allaria, most every time I've seen a Thrones video online and she's referenced, it's the same piece of fan art that's used, it stuck out to me because it's probably the most gorgeous looking depiction of a fictional character (that doesn't already have an official look) I've ever seen. But I suppose after awhile Shift would want to try and get more people exposed for their fan art, change it up sometimes.
@Baldur The problem with the show lies in the fact that you can't get rid of characters when they are essential to the source material even if their story line seems initially redundant. First of all it's not certain that Quentyn is dead and secondly maybe the coup is a way of introducing and fleshing out some of the characters in order for them to comprehensibly contribute in future story lines. If Martin just dropped them in the story later than he did, without seting up their relationships, behaviours, and intentions they would probably seem hollow and purposeless like so many other characters (mainly in blockbusters).
that's so true! after the show, every time I read the books I can't help but imagine Doran as the actor. he was really good and his eyes were so expressive, you could definitely see the "fire and blood" feeling in him... and then D&D happened
I feel so bad for Alexander Siddig - who was obviously playing Doran as being the chessmaster that he was, with a plan to dispose of the Lannisters and everything, in spite of D and D's constant attempts at changing him to some kind of spineless leader who bows before everyone without a second thought. Suffice to say, the actor was very disappointed when he was cut down from 4 episodes to Season 6 to dying in episode 1 - and Dorne could have been so good. It was the first signs of what would happen with Seasons 7 and 8. Oh well...
I get the feeling that Myrcella's and Trystane's story will be just like Romeo and Juliet. A love couple of two rival houses getting killed by the rising conflict between their houses
Well Daenerys didn´t reject Quentyn because of his looks or personality but because he literally arrived a day before her marriage. I don´t know why everyones getting that wrong.
@@gfilmer7150 She could have but it would have started the violence in Meereen again. By that point there had been peace for 90 days as Daenerys had requested for her marriage to Hizdhar. She was trying to rule Meereen and needed the peace. Barristan even puts it best after the dragontamer chapter that by the time he arrived, she had already made up her mind to stay. Had he arrived sooner, she may have taken up his offer for the dornish armies.
@@dakotasherman632 Unfortunately, he couldn’t arrive sooner. Daenerys kind of backed herself into a corner by saving The Slaves. I’m not saying saving them are bad, but I am saying that she can only choose one, staying in Essos or going to Westeros. She should stay in Essos because of what might happen to her when she goes to Westeros because Aegon “Young Griff”...
@@gfilmer7150 Oh I agree, it was completely beyond his control when he arrived, but by that point Dany had already made her decision and didn't want to go back on it considering what happened to Astapor when she left it. And she did back herself into a corner by freeing the slaves, and by staying in Meereen, which historically was a slaving city, in a region of the world famed for slavery. And I agree with you that she can't have both and has to pick one, but odds are, after her last fever dream, she'll be heading to Westeros once the dust settle in Essos.
@@dakotasherman632 She’ll return and fight alongside Tyrion, Barristan, and Victarion and then she’ll Harrenhal Volantis. Her war with Aegon though... so many will die Daenerys won’t be the loved and victorious savier
*I don't know... the TV show plot really has a lot going for it:* *"Let's avenge House Martell... by murdering every surviving member of House Martell!" :D*
16:50 Ser Robert Strong is described as even bigger than The Mountain. The implication throughout Feast is that all/many of the people Cersei gave to Qybern were added to what was left of Gregor Clegane's functioning body. That's probably his skull; the thing(s) in the armor don't need it anymore.
The fact that the Martells managed to survive freaking Dragons is an indication that they would be able to survive an invasion by a conventional ground force. I mean its in their blood to rebel and organise armed resistance to any foreign invader. Coupled with the fact that the Lannisters and Tyrells are going to be way too preoccupied fighting the Greyjoy fleet and Aegon's golden company, I think they might have a good chance of succeeding if they manage to coordinate with Aegon's forces.
@@MC-xd8lp exactly and Afghanistan will never be strong enough to conquer neighboring regions. they can outlast you with guerilla tactics btu to leave their mountains is their doom
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 As long as they're not being invaded by a much larger foe they can project themselves with a sizeable force. Even if their comparative advantage is mastering the land and guerilla warfare they're still a principality, way more populous than during the Targaryen conquest attempts and have been well preserved from the turmoil of the five kings war raging elsewhere in Westeros. I mean at this point the Riverlands have been countlessly ravaged, the North is depopulated and the Stormlands are being rapidly conquered. Coordinated and determined Dorne could strike a decisive blow somewhere.
@@FlorentPlacide Dorne does best in its own place. Other houses would need to travel far and wide through the mountains to invade, leaving themselves open to other great houses. Dorne in a straight fight on its own isn't as dangerous as fighting them on their own turf
The "everywhere the dragons danced, the people died" quote has got to be one of the creepiest lines ever written (read in the context of the scene). Martin has absolutely still got it.
Books: Thought out, interesting long term strategies made by two brothers who are polar opposites wanting revenge for their sister. Show: Men bad, woman good.
Nothing wrong with that brother. There’s a reason why Martin wrote them into the series. If game of thrones tv series followed everything from the books and added characters we’d probably still be in season 3-4 lol
Hey you book nerds are the reason I just shelled out money to buy these damn books. You book nerds are the reason I learned the ASOIF series is far better than even season 1 of the show within the first few pages. I haven't sat down and read a book since I graduated now I've read all of GoT and have started ACOK in less than 2 weeks.
I think there HAS to be more to Doran’s plots than on the surface. I just don’t buy that someone as clever as Doran supposedly is spent the better part of two decades planning to hitch his horse to Viserys and the surely he knew the Quentyn plan was a long shot at best. I will be very disappointed if the Dorne storyline ends up being about the Martells waiting too long for revenge.
Doran details his plot to his child and nieces in Dance with Dragons calmly as they rage. He has planned for Arianne to be the Queen of Westeros, as well as to slowly destroy Cersei's kingdom from within. He has already killed one Kingsguard and has Balon Swann in his court, who he sends on a wild goose chase for the Darkstar. Quentyn's quest is a disaster, but he is virtually an Yrnwood so he is not that trustworthy anyway. Like the Unsullied at Qohor, he is an afterthought.
@@SantomPh Apparently Quent's more trustworthy than Arianne because Doran actually trusted Quent enough to tell him the entire plan before sending him to Meereen. Doran never intended to tell Arianne the plan at all, but Arianne forced his hand with her hilariously inept Queenmaker plot.
I actually think it's pretty neat, not a story/theme that's explored too often, and given that Tywin and Gregor are dead there's nobody to really get revenge on that'd be half as sweet
@@skibobshipoddlypop but Gregor isn’t actually “dead”. At least in the eyes of the Dornish he isn’t, especially considering the proof of his death was a skull sent by the Lannisters (a skull that obviously isn’t Gregor’s)
I’ve read theories that the skull sent to the Martells wasn’t Gregor’s but Smalljon Umber’s, which the Lannisters would’ve easily been able to get access to after the Red Wedding. It was said that the Smalljon was massive. Not as big as the Mountain, but still
@@duyanhng8430I think he gave some pointers, like that Bran ends up on the Iron Throne; but obviously that’s only the vaguest outlines and events. Given how much the show diverged, they couldn’t just end the same
@John Nada To be fair it's his own fault. He waited too long and relied too much on the laurels of the show to finish the story for him. George is a talented writer, but even he has admitted that he doesn't plan everything out. He writes what he feels is right. This unfortunately means that he can easily write himself into a corner. His comment about TWoW taking 3 years has now ended up taking 10+ years. The guy could have been done by now. In fact if he just released one book during the shows airing, he probably could have avoided one of the biggest disappointments on TV and the biggest blunder of his creation. Now what? He's overseeing prequel content and spin-offs on a series that hasn't even finished?
@@christianfarren1179 You think they're ever going to be finished? I personally thought they might 5 or so years ago. These days though I think GRRM is just working on other things that he enjoys rather than the giant intensely complicated story he has started.
Ripcookiethief Honestly? I think they will get finished one day, just not necessarily by him. A ways back, I heard a rumor that he’s designated someone, some superfan in his will to finish the books if he dies before finishing them. Which, let’s face it, is becoming more and more likely these days.
I always assumed the mountain's skull was actually one of the dwarf skulls. There was one that was described as being bigger than normal, which was supposed to indicative that it was Tyrions skull. Though it was really foreshadowing for the skull in Dorne. Also nice final lines, the Dorne plot is a very poignant reminder of the never ending cycle of pain that vengeance creates.
@@iagocasabiellgonzalez7807 Lol a necromantic clusterfuck does have a certain appeal 😋 We will have to wait and see! I hope this is one of the mysteries we get solid answers to in the upcoming books.
I know. He didn’t want any of what he did and feared what would happen to him. His thoughts of his mother are so sad. Like Dany he just wants to go home but there is a definite sense that he knows he will never seen Dorne or his family again.
I feel you. He was a dutiful and austere kid. He's never asked for all of this. Too bad his pride took him at the end of the day. He didn't deserve such a terrible death, he was a child who tried to do the best of his circumstances.
Remember that Quentyn arrived in Meereen on the eve of Dany's wedding with Hizdhar. And she agreed to marry Hizdhar if he gave her 90 days of peace, which he did, and reneging on that plan would have certainly made violence erupt again So even if Quentyn was a hot bad boy I doubt that Dany would have agreed to go to Westeros with him
You know he has like 4 channels? Alt shift X, Alt Schwift X, Alt Shift ZZZ and another that I don't remember. He only really posts on Alt Schwift and the stuff on ZZZ is a little out there... That being said, if you want more Schwift you should check them out
@@narufan987 nah dude. He does a really long series called Game of Theones Abridged on Schwift which is him reviewing chapters of the book. I think there might be an Alt Shift Exe?
Maybe Jaime and Bron go alone into Dorne and beat up everyone comically like Terrance Hill and Bud Spencer and then the one lady shows bronn her boobs and he says something funny hahaha
@@belisarius6949 Hmm, yes, that could work, but they need an elaborate plan to kidnap Myrcella. So they should just run over to her in the middle of the fucking palace garden, take her by the hand, and say: come. No need to thank me for the amazing ideas.
Doran Martell be like: "Everything was calculated... but boy, I'm bad at math..." And yeah, IF the books will be finished (which I doubt since RR Martin is already too old), they will show a different ending for the Martell's and ASOIAF
Fernando Maverick Doran’s plans only appear like they failed. In truth, everything that has happened so far has been according to his plan(exept for the fact that Quentyn is alive).
Ice Don’t you think it’s a little bit suspicious that no one saw Myrcella get cut? No one except for Drey, who was constantly by Myrcellas side, and who had been acting suspicious the entire time up until now. Doran is the only one who makes the claim that Darkstar cut myrcella, and that is because he wants the lannisters to hunt Darkstar in order to keep Balon Swann occupied whilst Cersei’s trial is going on. Gerold got framed.
Lots of great stuff here, and you even included the thematic reference to the overripe blood oranges near the end, which is a statement on Doran's vengeance. One little thing sort of touched on but also missed: When Dany laughs at meeting Quentyn, she explains to her companions that it's because he was using the name "Frog" (and thus a Frog that turns into a Prince just like the stories), but most importantly, she gives her explanation in *Valyrian*, and thus Quentyn and his friends HAVE NO IDEA why she laughed and assume the worst. A later conversation with one of them and Ser Barristan after Quentyn's death makes it clear that his grief-stricken friends blame Dany for Quentyn's rash decision to confront her dragons, a story they will take with them to Doran. It's very possible that this will also spur Doran to encourage Arianne to marry Aegon.
Man. I felt like a small child that was sitting cross-legged on her floor with other children listening to this tale. Well done. Best on RUclips when it comes to detail.
Someone brings Cersei the head of a dwarf with an unusually large head, hoping for a reward for killing Tyrion. It's possible that this is the head that's sent to Dorne instead of the Mountain's.
@@SantomPh Why is he "obviously not headless"...? GRRM makes a point of mentioning a couple of times in the books that Strong NEVER removes his helmet. He could have a pumpkin under there for all we know. 🎃
LoganBluth if he is headless that officially makes Qyburn the most powerful practitioner of magic in our story. I would say making a pair of arms and legs do everything you command it without controlling it telepathically is even more impressive than skin changing/controlling a bunch of dead bodies to attack the nights watch.
@@princexizor5151 Alternatively, why does it have to be Gregor's head under there...? Qyburn's had access to plenty of sets of body parts what with all the women Cersei has been sending him that he's been "using up". It could be Gregor's body with some rando's head sewn on top. OR Qyburn could have sucked Gregor's brain out of his skull, stuck it in a jar, and plonked that inside Ser Robert Strong's helm. Not to mention this is all, y'know, MAGIC and GRRM is on record as hating systems of magic that try to explain themselves via pseudoscience. I mean Jojen literally has visions of the FUTURE, is that really less impressive than making a body move around and obey commands without a head...?
Love how you barely acknowledged the show’s Doran visually as opposed to Oberyn. The grass hiding the viper is probably my favourite line from the books!
The more I watch these videos, the more I feel like ASOIAF will end with a lot of these prophecies and armies and magic... amounting to nothing. But not in a disappointing way, like Dan & Dave did with the GoT show. I see it as a continuation of the sobering reality that fantasy and prophecy do not translate so easily to reality. War is brutal, plots don’t always work, magic is unreliable, prophecies are not so easily interpreted... I just hope that Martin does a good job of conveying this when he wraps up this book series, instead of the disappointing shock-and-awe that Dan & Dave went for with the show
Martin says that he likes to play with the idea of prophecies coming true, but in unexpected ways, so you might be right on the money. Perhaps not in a "profecies are a fool's hope" kinda way, but rather by having prophecies backfire on those who treat them like: Step 1: find da prophecy Step 2: check all the boxes (dragon egg, daenerys marriage, etc...) Step 3: become king of Westeros Step 4: profit
I take the prophecies as a what might be than what will happen. They all rely on the people around them and what they do that changes the subject of them. Like Cersei probably could have beaten hers if she had not bullied Tyrion or had a kid with Robert. Dany could have gotten Rhaego's if she had let the khalasar do their thing. There's a lot of what ifs
They all end up meaning more than one thing, possibly. People try to make a universe of possible outcomes be the one they like the best at the time, and that trick never works, as Rocket J Squirrel would say.
I like the idea of cersei trying to burn kings landing in a crazed state after her kids are killed. It sort of fits a cycle to me because when the story starts out we hear about how the mad king wanted to burn the city but was stopped by a lannister. It'd be interesting if in the end it's a lannister who tries to burn kings landing and is stopped by a targaryen (Jon or dany maybe?) If not them I'd also find it interesting if it was jaime who killed cersei to stop her. Idk I thought it was a cool little idea but im not all that knowledgeable about the books lore.
As someone who just finished reading the books, to me, this is actually not a bad idea or theory. Honestly either way, it would still be far better than the ending the show gave us. 😅
I prefer to think of the dorne storyline as a reflection of their house sigil. The sun and the spear, Doran is a prime example of this; like the sun he has omnipresence his meticulously crafted plans encompass Westeros and essos, and even takes the slightest details into account. But he is also represented by the spear; a symbol of single mindedness and tunnel vision, hell bent on one thing and one thing only, vengeance. And in doing so this combination is a detriment to the future of dorne. Irrespective of who is the prince/princess.
Perhaps enact the “Last Wall Protocol”? It will bring the Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templars and the other successor chapters. That will save Dorn.
“Game of Thrones” is snappier and easier to remember. While ASOIAF is poetic, more to the point titles are more common. I can’t think of another franchise with as many syllables in its title.
@@NoOne-ol6dw Yeah, Game of Thrones roles so much better off the tongue than A Song of Ice and Fire. Even though I'm a huge book fan I always call it Game of Thrones. I also feel that it fits better for the whole series, especially how it eludes to it being the ultimate goal which of course it is not, just like how the people in the books believe it to be the ultimate goal when a far darker threat looms over them.
Preston's theory about Doran sounds more plausible - Quentin is closer to the ironwoods than the martel's, he was sent with almost no help in the company of sons of unfavourable houses. If he succeeds, good for Doran. If he fails, good for Doran
As far as I'm aware, Oberyn's poisoning of Edgar Yrowood is only a rumour. I think that's actually quite important to his character, he adapted to the "Red Viper" moniker rather than brought it upon himself.
After watching your recent video of "The REAL Tyrion" and now this, I understand now why the show went downhill way earlier than what the popular belief is and what I believed in as well which was season 7+. Man, if only it was possible to have a remake or something akin to the anime called FMA: Brotherhood to do justice to GOT itself would be extremely nice.
You are single handedly keeping the GOT flame inside me alive! Thanks so much for the amazing video. The Dorne plot is one of the more interesting plots in the books and its great to see a more clear-cut explanation of the state of things.
Knowing GRRM's love of taking someone else's idea and making it his own, as well as his love for english literature, I cant help but think about Hamlet with a revenge plot that takes way too long. I think the ending for both might very well be the same....
I will never understand why they skipped/altered this entire storyline in the show, even if George RR Martin hadn't figured out exactly where that plot was going any person with a cursory understanding of the story he wrote would realise Aegon and Arianne had a significant role to play in the overall outcome of the story.
Thank you for this. The character assassination of Dorne, the Martells and the Sands that was perpetrated by B&W was enough to raise every spear of the South in demand of justice. I was so hopefull after the casting of Pascal who actually nailed Oberyn and Siddig who is an amazing actor as Doran. And then... I can't even speak of it. This was when I started realising tha B&W had no actual understanding of what Martin was doing, nor that they had any hope of bringing the series to a satisfying conclusion.
There’s certainly a reason you have this many subscribers , videos are extremely well thought out and articulated to perfection. Hats off to another cracking video 👍👌
Doran Martell was so skilled at the game of thrones that he executed his masterplan, had it fail spectacularly, and no one even knows it ever happened. Truly a rival to Tywin, Olenna, Litrlefinger, and Varys.
I'm still getting thru the book series, it's hard w two young kids. One w special needs. I can't thank you enough for helping me understand this insanely complicated universe and it's history!! It's only been a yr of my GoT obsession, it came when I was a newlywed and started a new family. Buying and renovating new home. Then second baby, postpartum then COVID-19. I NEVER knew how great it was! Makes sense since I've always been a LOTR geek before it was popular lol. I watch as many of these as I can , they are an awesome guide!! ❤️
They cut off Rob Stark's head, and parade around his corpse with stitched on wolf's head. What happened to Rob's head? And why is Cersei's champion called Robert?
I was wondering about that! I haven't read any of the "floating" chapters that GRRM has out there for Winds of Winter. Do any of them confirm that Quentyn is definitely dead?
@@jeanvalero1597 Please god, NO! Even if DoS ever DOES actually come out, Preston will still be obnoxiously denying R+L=J and condescendingly calling fans gullible for believing actual EVIDENCE-supported fan theories LOOONG after the series is finished.
I am kind of amazed how interesting the story of Dorne is. I haven't read the books yet, so I only know the rough early plot from the show. It is noticable that the books go way more in depth, which is nice.
The only person who says Dark Star attacked Myrcella is Doran, and we know him to be deceitful and manipulative. We also know that Myrcella had a double... maybe they kidnapped the double and the whole plan was a wash to begin with?
@@SantomPh Yeah, I know what she intended to do. That doesn't mean it's what she actually did though. And you fail to address the fact that we actually don't know for a certainty that Dark Star did it. The chapter is Arianne's POV, and she didn't witness it herself. She only heard it was Dark Star from Doran, and like I said, he's proven himself to be manipulative and not always truthful. And either way, if you blindly believe anyone other than Ned in this series, then you're a fool.
Dorne more than anything is defined by bad timing. They are married into the royal family when rebellion strikes. Viserys dies right before the realm goes to war, and Dorne could've killed off the Lannisters. Qwenten gets to Myreen a few weeks too late. Arrianne finds out about the plans a bit too late. Oberyn waited a bit too long before finishing off the mountain.
Started chugging through the books, and I'm halfway through the first book. I'm really liking it so far, but I have trouble focusing so I usually only read one to three chapters a day. _So_ much depth even just in the first chapter with the direwolves and the characters immediately recognizing the symbolism before even the reader would if they came in not knowing anything, and how that symbolism influences people like Cat to act in a certain way, and then combined with some conspiracy theory stuff things like "What if the wolves were sent there by e.g. Bloodraven?" and ugh even just in that there's so much more depth than the show. Thank you, because without you and other people like you I probably would not have started reading them
You'll love them The 4th and 5th books are separated geographically. My first read was as is, and i got a little stuck with several cersei chapters almost in a row. For my second read i followed a chapter rearrangement called A Ball of Beasts which combine both books in a chronollogical order, and though more complex, I enjoyed much much more. Hope this helps when you make the decision.
These videos always ALWAYS get me so pumped to re-read the books and of course, lord willin, get to read TWOW. They are a gift, thank you for doing all this work.
While I was super hyped up by one of Doran’s last speeches when he reveals his plotting I was kinda hyped, but I seriously think he’s mostly just been coping about not being able to do anything, and instead of admitting that he’s overpowered by the Lannisters he tells himself he’s just being sneaky
A Song of Ice and Fire tells the series of conflicts that brought down the great houses of Westeros. The Martells have one misfire of a plan after another and are waiting too long. The Arryns put their trust on a mockingbird and are being slowly taken out. The Tyrells are trying to grow in the field of fire. The Baratheons were fighting each other and now winter will make make them a extinct species. The Tullys definitely will be dead in frozen waters. The Greyjoys will end themselves with the fire and ice they will set free. The Lannisters had one great lion and now his children can't live up to this legend. The Targaryens will burn everything and themselves. And the Starks will in the end prevail all of it and be remembered and honoured in history, but go extinct in life afterwards.
Yes, that's just the story and message of the series - finished or not - put in a nutshell: The total destruction and extinction of the great ruling families for the loss of autonomy and individualism to push a cultural, social-political pabulum steered by some-ONE creepy to rule them all. Many can't imagine this to be true. Because isn't the taste of saccharine sweet peace just as authentic and beautiful as Lennon's one-world anthem...?!
I really loved your comment, as it is simetric and poetic (an not necessarily literal), but I think Tully's may survived at the end by the line of Edmure. Also others houses may have at least one survivor member, as Lannisters (Tyrion), Stark (Sansa, and Arya), Martells and Tyrells, but most of their members will die.
@@pedroalitovar6624 - Unimportant. The few survivors are cut off from ANY power and influence. THOSE are put in the hand of a non-human spirit residing inside a physically and mentally crippled boy. Solely and for an unknown amount of time. ONE ring...
The Martell's did more than just sit around and wait though, check out Qyburn and his dealings, and there's evidence pointing to Quentyn being alive and having tamed a dragon, Arianne's negotiations will most likely fall through with Aegon and the Golden Company because of her cousin Elia and will likely be used to take Storm's End while also destroying Mace Tyrell's army. House's Lannister, Tyrell and Hightower will lose many of their members to greyscale and Euron Greyjoy, Willas and maybe Garlan will make it out alive but The Reach will be devastated and their armies are going to be destroyed. House Lannister might not be able to recover for generations, their reputation will be destroyed thanks to Cersei and Lancel. House Arryn will likely cause a long and harsh civil war in the Vale since their cadet branch will want to rule and Robert Arryn will likely die from the stress caused by the chaos of his immediate heir dying in the tourney and the truth of his mother's death coming to light. Walder Frey will likely die of old age and with an invasion from the Vale thanks to familial ties to claimants they'll likely be cut down to a handful of members since there'll be a second Red Wedding by the Brotherhood Without Banners that will destroy their numbers and any men brought by the Lannister's. House Tully looks like it'll be fine in the long run, the Stark's will be fine but the Bolton's will be rightfully wiped out once and for all. The Baratheon's will be an extinct house in the end unless Edric or Gendry are legitimized, Victarion, Euron and Aeron are going to die leaving the Greyjoy's with Asha, if Theon survives alongside her. Bran will for some reason end up ruling in the end so the Targaryen's will die out as well.
I told myself I'd do a reread of books 1-5, set for like 2016 when I believed we would find out a release date for TWOW... what a sweet summer child I was. I don't remember anyone who was mentioned in this video or any plot from any book in the series,, but I can't wait to see what Ned is up to in the 6th book.
I think the Martell story will end with the Martells nearly all consumed by the conflict and die on different sides, but with Doran still sitting in the ruined Water Gardens, having lost everything, Maybe with Ellaria present to reiterate her argument for peace.
reading the fight between oberyn and the mountain in the books for the first time was one of the most shocking things I've ever read. i literally reread what happened and put the book down in sadness for a few hours.
I think it’s fitting that Doran suffers from gout. Gout primarily affects the joints in the legs, keeping the patient bound to one place during flare ups. Doran’s emotional pain keeps him from moving, stuck in one spot as opportunities slip by.
A masterpiece of writing, production, entertainment and education. This video is the first "Spark" of light I've had since HBO's assassination of the characters and story. Bravo brother!
It is so fucking painful how much potential there was with this all of this. The twists and turns and intrigue of not just this arc but everything else as well and the end result was just so painfully phoned in.
@AM a will which presumed Bran and Rickon dead (theyre not) and Sansa married to a Lannister (she's not, i mean not really. Baelish openly plots to marry her to some other guy). Imagine if Jon gets the Northern throne, everything's all lovely, except Bran trots back into town.
I think this is a little to simplistic in regards to Dorans plan. Oberyn’s travels (creating a sell sword company, likely allies with Littlefinger, controlling the brave companions etc.)
Andrew Seal Doran mentions working to bring Tywin Lannister down. Littlefinger has undermined the Lannister’s even before GOT. His borrowing of $ from the iron bank knowing the Lannister’s will hold the throne via Joffrey/Tommen. Oberyn started the sellsword company the brave companions which appears to work in Littlefinger favor as they switch sides at convenient times. There’s other things that I think allude to them being allies (for now). Check out the order of the greens hands vid on it or reddit threads. These are theories but based on Doran’s description I do believe it’s plausible
@@michaeleaverly7943 Fair enough. It's definitely an interesting thought that I'll have to look into more. I do think most of his actions have been to cause disruption, chaos and conflict that he will be able to benefit from and climb the ladder, so I don't know whether I buy him working specifically in conjunction with other significant players. And while I agree he has definitely undermined the Iron Throne, and the Lannister regime, I think the only people he has intentionally and conclusively wanted dead are Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, Tyrion and Joffrey.
One aspect of the book plots that I found hard to believe: The Martells are still staunchly pro-Targarean. Their hatred for the Lannisters is obvious and natural. But we don't hear them express much resentment for the fact that Raegar ran off with a Stark girl. Is it cuz they're more chill about monogamy? But that's what got their sister and nephew/niece killed. I always expected them to be all like: a pox on both your houses, we're declaring independence again! But Oberyn and Doran remained secret Targarean loyalists. Oh well, it makes for a good plot.
it's possible they didn't fully understand it and didn't know about it,plus ageon was still going to be king so it makes sense on why they still supported the targarean.
“Dornish men fought for his kingdom and Elia and her babes was trapped at King's Landing until their grotesque death. I'll get to kill the others but i will have to wait for the afterlife for Rhaegar to meet my blade" -Oberyn Martell doran martell is only vying for ‘targ restoration’ bc a) he wanted dany’s dragons (and after what happened to quentyn he’s never gonna side with her) b) bc of (f)aegon being elia’s son. it’s all calculated to the advantage of house martell not bc they are loyal to the targaryens. its not adultery that they are fine with lmao. they just fine with sex in general, adultery is still looked down upon and oberyn was upset that elia was abandoned for lyanna
Oberyn has many mistresses and bastards. For Dorn, this is normal. Without the Targarians, Dorn won't have the strength to retaliate. They need to be allies
Ok, wow, give me a second here, it’s a lot to take in. Ok. So, we have: 1. Littlefinger’s plotting 2. the Varys/(F)Aegon/Blackfyre conspiracy 3. the Dorne revenge (+Targaryen restoration?) schemes 4. the Brotherhood Without Banners and Lady Stoneheart’s quest for vengeance 5. various separate Northern conspiracies to restore House Stark 6. Maggy the Frog’s prophesy 7. the visions and prophecies of the Undying Ones 8. Euron’s eldritch mass blood ritual/sacrifice that will provide him with godhood (+the possibility of krakens, sphinxes, maybe even Cthulhu?) 9. Bloodraven’s schemes and puppeteering 10. the special Targaryen bloodline 11. the Azor Ahai stuff 12. Quaithe’s spiritual guidance of Daenerys 13. skinchanging/warging powers creating lots of potential opportunities for characters to stay only temporarily dead 14. the mystery of the Others, their origin, culture and goals 15. the Horn of Joramun 16. Dragonbinder 17. Arya’s kill list 18. the maesters’ agenda 19. Jon’s ancestry 20. Cersei’s ambitions 21. the legacy of Old Valyria 22. Melisandre’s plots 23. oily black stones and Lovecraftian Deep Ones 24. cursed places such as Valyria and Asshai 25. the Starks’ true origin and heritage 26. the secret of Winterfell’s crypts 27. Daenerys going back to her family’s savage roots 28. the direwolves’ significance 29. the Bloodstone Emperor and the legend of the Long Night 30. the complex political situation in Meereen 31. Theon’s tragedy 32. Jaime’s atonement and path to righteousness 33. Stannis’s war and battle strategies against the Boltons 34. ancient pacts between humans and other species 35. R’hllor and the Great Other 36. … I’m sure there’s much more I’m missing here, but just compiling that one list has made me so exhausted I want to take a nap. It’s also made me realise that if George RR Martin manages to somehow tie ALL OF THIS together and conclude the series in a genuinely satisfying way, then he’s nothing short of a genius. I have zero tolerance for D&D after their many screw-ups, but taking a step back to look at the richness of the story and the sheer scope of the world these characters inhabit has made me sympathise with them just a smidge more and understand why they chose to dumb down the narrative and simplify many of its complex facets. I’ve read hundreds of amazing books, but none of them come even close to matching the complexity of this series, the motivations and personal tragedies of its numerous characters, the fantastic worldbuilding and the symbolism that permeates each storytelling aspect, all of it resulting in a grand narrative of truly epic proportions. God, I can’t wait for the Winds of Winter to arrive already… Please, Mr. Martin, please… please…
0:05 i hereby start a petition to remove the greyjoys from the list of great houses, they control a few cringe islands and dont even produce anything, cant even sow smh
![[글로컬 전북] 지역 소식 (장수·무주·순창·임실) | 전주MBC 241125 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LlZZ5D4JoDY/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch an extra video about Dorne on Nebula, by signing up for CuriosityStream: curiositystream.com/AltShiftX
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Yes! I think Dorne was behind saving Dany and Viserys! Calling it before I see the video! The lemon tree secret. Also holding out hope for tin foil Daenerys=Ashara Dayne + Aerys
Sorry, no. Please make the content available to everyone. I'd rather donate money directly to you, than sign up for some service im not going to touch. If I was working, id be a patron. But, pandemic. Quarantine. Life sucks, need more ASX.
The Nebula exclusivity is not a good move.
All Quenton's are good guys no matter how you spell it. I've gotten burned for a girl's love before if you know what I mean!! 😬🔥
@@quentongilliam5803 The Magicians ?... ; )
I like how he has no intro, he just gets straight into the video, doesn't waste time
yeah I hate it when half the video is sponsorship and begging for likes.... I just skip skip...where's the video XD especially when it's a new channel and I have no connection to the youtuber. I just ignore those channels.
HEY GUYS WHAT'S UP BEFORE THIS VIDEO STARTS I NEED YOU TO CLICK THE LINK FOR A FREE COURSE ONLY $9.99 USD
cause he had to sell subscriptions at the end
Yes, the man is about business. Also, I find English accents delightful.
Hisame Artwork nah. I mean I get that it’s a bit annoying, but I respect content creators’ need for funding
Book Doran: “i have been plotting Tywins downfall since he killed elia”
Show Doran: “No fight please”
The show messed up so much.
Ellaria Sand's revision was even worse; going from outright opposition to the Sand snakes and their plot for "vengeance" in the books to suddenly being the one leading them in the Show.
If George manages to finish the books. HBO should make an animated series that is very accurate to the books. The last two seasons of GOT pissed me off. I want to see Arianne, Young Griff, lady stoneheart etc...
Book Doran: *muscle doge*
Show Doran: *pathetic doge*
@@moneymayweathera absolutely mate .A proper adaptation. No characters or plot cut just straight book to tv👍
GoT did Ellaria dirty. She was the voice of reason, and one of the few peace seeking characters in the series, and they transformed her into a vengeance hungry idiot.
Idiot how? She would have gotten everything she wanted if not for one blunder at the absolute last second, which was siding with Dany instead of marching her whole host to KL right away
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Yeah, the whole Dany alliance isn't gonna work now (they'll obviously side with Aegon). Dragon Lady should've made an alliance when she had the chance.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 An idiot for thinking Oberyn was murdered. An idiot for enabling his daughters’ deluded vengeance. An idiot for risking war from Dorne because her fck buddy lost a fight. An idiot for one cringey yaaas queeeen moment after another
All her appeal as a character evaporated after Oberyn’s death. So did her acting ability
@@tannerjablowski3192 whys it deluded? even if oberyn wasnt murdered, Elia was.
and ellaria would have been on the winning side of a queen who now loves her had things all gone according to plan.
risking war? again she joined the side that had 3 dragons and 100k dothraki. whos risking what again?
not to mention dorne is notoriously unconquerable. Cersei had no real plan to retailate.
Doran in the books is faaaar more idiotic and braindead
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Either an alliance with Robb or Stannis would’ve worked. They’re upcoming alliance with Aegon will work against The Lannisters but not against Daenerys.
Book Sand Snakes: The Lannisters killed our father and aunt, so let's kill the Lannisters!
Show Sand Snakes: The Lannisters killed our father and aunt, so let's kill our family!
Yeah like wtf, they did damage to themselves but they only got one lannister, the lannisters all fucking died on their own.
Yes ridiculous
I wondered about that too😅 that was so stupid
@@Tom_Cruise_Missile Myrcella was probably the most innocent Lannister ever
@@Darkstar_Dayne Her and Tommen
"It isn't clear what Oberyn and Doran's plan was here."
Doran had no part in it, it was Oberyn being Oberyn. I believe Tyrion pieces together his simple reasoning in the books. If he wins, he exacts vengeance on the mountain for his sister and her children. If he loses, he knows Dorne will be inflamed by his death and his own daughters will try to rally them to war, something he'd gladly be a martyr for - and as we know, this very nearly happens. In Oberyn's mind there was no losing outcome, if only his cautious brother didn't intercede.
Doran likely knew Oberyn would do everything he did in King's Landing. They knew each other very well, Oberyn visited him more than his own children. The only snag was Oberyn demanded the Mountain's confession too much, otherwise he would have exonerated a grateful Tyrion and defeated the Lannister monolith. Clegane died anyway in the night.
I agree that this was just Oberyn acting on his own, but I think that if he had got the dying Mountain to confesses that he murdered his sister and children on the orders of Tywin Lannister, then he would have killed Tywin then and there at the duel. Remember the whole audience is watching, with Tywin in the front row, the moment the Mountain admits he did it on Tywin's order, Oberyn throws his spear and kills Tywin. There is uproar, maybe Oberyn is killed next, (as risk he was willing to take) but perhaps not, with Tywin dead, Tyrion exonerated and chaos, perhaps the watching nobles, not all support the Lannisters, might take a different path. It's one of those 'where men believe power lies' moments. But sadly, Oberyn got to close, the Mountain killed him, and then Tywin quickly seizes the initiative and declares Tyron guilt (when you could argue it was a draw, as both champions seem to die).
It is said that Doran and Oberyn worked together, so Oberyn would not do anything against their plan. He was probably sure he could win. And it was his plan from the beggining to poison Tywin and then fight with mountain in his own trial. And he wanted to start a war? Why not immediately kill his whole family by himself?
@@Robert-ov1wi I still don't buy 'tywin was poisoned'. Icky decomposition is a weak piece of evidence. I feel like the motivation for the theory is an emotional Tyrion fan thing, a desire to smooth the edges of Tyrion murdering Tywin in cold blood. 'Oh he saved his father from a long painful death.' logic. I feel like Tyrion son of Aerys is motivated by the same reasoning... and let's be honest, smoothing Tyrion's edges worked so well in the show.
@@davidlewis5312 It's the only theory I know that explains Oberyn behavior, and there are several hints that Tywin was poisoned. Also for me Tyrion has nothing to do with it. That
"Oh he saved..." thing seems ridicioules.
“Oh”
I felt that...
:,(
He's alive dammit ;_;
Let's start a petition to change it to "oof"
feels bad man
ruclips.net/video/dOiE0LCu6J0/видео.html
The Martell and Greyjoy storyline is legitimately one of the most interesting things about Feast/Dance the show didn’t deserve them
So True!!
you straight up stole this comment lol why
dirty pure ???
really bcs not much happens imo even though the Dorne and Iron Island scenes are legit my favourite. You could take dorne out of the story and it wouldn't make a difference. Queensmaker plot was dud that changes nothing and so was How to Steal a Dragon. I really wish they had more of an impact
@@Atlasss97 we don't even know what happens, how do you expect them to have an impact already?
Quentyn’s arc was a great deconstruction of the hero’s journey. His last line, “Oh” was pretty much a nutshell of our own thought about his story.
lol
He might still be alive tho
@@antoineturgeon1437 Barristan Selmy confirms he is dead 3 days after he is burned. He was placed in Dany's own bed and personally attended to by Missandei, but the wounds were just too great- neither Barristan or Missandei are liars or capable ones so he is dead for real. Barristan also sends the two knights escorting Quentyn to negotiate with the Tattered Prince as well as giveing them a ship with Quentyn's charred bones.
yep, dead
@@SantomPh there is a slight hope Preston Jacobs explains it well enough that I'm convinced he's alive.
@@thewanderingartists exactly, burnt bones prove nothing.
Doran Martell: When you played the long con so long everyone died waiting for it.
This comment is so perfect! 👍
Doran Martell is George RR Martin's spirit animal
@@kylespencer7756 HAHAHA!
I mean the Quentyn plan is like the ultimate 'not reading the room properly' in probably the whole book. Imagine how quickly things would have gone all Fire and Blood in Westeros if Doran had sent Oberdyn instead. Dany likes her men dangerous and charismatic and the Red Viper is probably the most of the lot in the show.
Holy shit. Oberyn really would have a chance, I think. Too bad his face looks like a smashed watermelon these days.
Not a terrible idea, but Oberyn is like, in his 40's. Not that age-miss-matched marriages don't happen in medieval fantasy all the time, including ASOIAF, but that usually happens out of necessity. Securing finances, or claiming rights to lands and titles, that sort of thing. However suave and cool Oberyn was, I doubt Dany would go for him anymore than she did Quentyn, especially since she already had her hands tied as it was.
@@beehive616 No, he really is in his 40's; he was 42-43 in Storm of Swords. He was a teenager when Tyrion was born.
@@MrGeorgeFlorcus That and Oberyn has been a polyamorous womanizer his entire life. I somehow doubt that Daenerys is sort of woman that is interested in sharing. Also given that he's a thrill seeker, he might just go cheating Daenerys because he finds the idea of getting caught and cruelly executed exhilarating.
To be fair, there's SOME thrills even he doesn't explore. When he's suggested Cersei, Oberyn says he'd rather jump into a bed with 100 scorpions.
Bad plan
If you read or hear the video, Dorne bastards are equal to heirs
So the 7 kingdoms are gonna become 9 literally because Oberyns daughters
I always liked how Dorne started out as the main enemies of the Targaryens but in the current events of the books they are their primary supporters still in Westeros
Things change. "The enemies of today are tomorrow's allies" or something like that. Metal Gear Solid 3 goes into it more
Well, after the marriage pact, the Targaryens were actually Dornish as well.
Also, the House Baratheon was born (and rise) thanks to House Targaryen, as Orys Baratheon was probably Aegon The Conqueror's bastard brother. Centuries later, House Baratheon destroyed House Targaryen to the ashes and crown themselves kings of the Seven Kingdoms.
Here, Emperor Palpatine would say his words: "Ironic".
@@iagocasabiellgonzalez7807 barley though. They also have first men, andal, dayne as well
Cristian Saucedo yeah but the boss didnt think we’d still be on bad terms with russia
quentyn martell arrives at meereen: "one wife, please"
"Oh"
Dany: u ugly
I see you are a man of culture
Barristan: "Would you like fries with that?"
@@ramahan21 Hizdahr:and soda?
The absolute shade of not using any of the GoT actors for the non-Oberyn Martells :P
One of my favourite facts about Oberyn is that his duel with Lord Edar Yronwood is a lot more controversial than just “he (might) have used poison”.
Due to Oberyn’s age, it was agreed that the duel wasn’t to the death, but to the first cut (rather merciful, given that the former is hardly uncommon). While both combatants got cut, Lord Edgar’s festered and he died. A lot of people focus on the supposed use of poison as part of Oberyn’s fighting style, but I’ve always appreciated the fact that the guy poisoned an opponent in a specifically NONLETHAL duel. It says a lot about him.
Oberyn is lowkey borderline evil. He describes himself as "bloodthirsty". He started a mercenary company, but not because he needed money (he's a goddamn prince of Dorne) but apparently for the sheer fun of violence. He hit Obara's mother (Obara says he "gave my mother the back of his hand across the face, so she began to weep"). And he, y'know, raised the sorts of children who like to poison and murder innocent children.
@@AltShiftX Ya'know, this Oberyn fellow doesn't seem like the kind of person whose family you should mess with.
@@concept5631 Unless you got an armored gorilla with a great sword in your payroll
@@jamie_d0g978 Who then proceeds to die in a horrifically painful way.
@@concept5631 And came back as a Frankenstein version
I think Doran missed his biggest chance at revenge against the Lannisters by not aligning himself with north and the river lands. He is too cautious. Dorne North & riverlands vs westernlands and The reach
It would have been especially effective right when they needed it most; around the time of the Battle of the Blackwater, if Doran had made common cause with the North, they could have struck up north and west, into the Reach and Westerlands, at a time when both of their armies were out of position. They could have had an absolute heyday, looting coffers, and capturing uncountable hostages, not to mention the strategic advantage of holding so many important castles.
Doran wanted Dany as queen, he doesn’t want independence
I think end of the day red wedding still goes down, and tywins wrath would descend upon dorne afterwards.
Revenge and Independence are two different things. However, you are right since Martin indirectly tells us in the books that Doran’s flaw is that he is too cautious.
For real, I think the reach wouldn't support lannisters anymore when Dorne would fight them too, I mean why should you partner with a group that is alone against 3 other groups?
I love how you dismiss the show's portrayals of Doran and the Sand Snakes by not using the actors' photos and instead choosing to depict them with drawings proximating their book resemblance. Show Doran and Sand Snakes ended up being garbage, though the actors that played them were quite good and Doran especially was a spot on casting choice. We can all thank D&D, for such wasted source potential because they just wanted to play with special effects and pyrotechnics, like the spoiled men-children, they turned out to be. They kind of forgot that this show used to be cerebral above all else.
@Oussamatha You are absolutely right. They did no justice to the actresses. It would be so satisfying if they tried, at least a little, to make them look and feel like their book counterparts. They are so interesting characters in the books, especially Nym and Tyene. I swear, every time I hear the bad pussy line the cringe becomes tangible, like the sticky sweat of a neckbeard. Seriously this line is like something out of a perv's homebrew DnD campaign or fanfic (The last 4 seasons make much more sense in this context, don't they?). I really hope the Tyene actress bounces back from this dumpster fire.
I did like a little verbal sort of double take, I was like but hang on, you didn-- ohhhhh... right. Okay, I see the game you play, boy.
I was also totally expecting to see another picture of Allaria, most every time I've seen a Thrones video online and she's referenced, it's the same piece of fan art that's used, it stuck out to me because it's probably the most gorgeous looking depiction of a fictional character (that doesn't already have an official look) I've ever seen. But I suppose after awhile Shift would want to try and get more people exposed for their fan art, change it up sometimes.
@Baldur The problem with the show lies in the fact that you can't get rid of characters when they are essential to the source material even if their story line seems initially redundant. First of all it's not certain that Quentyn is dead and secondly maybe the coup is a way of introducing and fleshing out some of the characters in order for them to comprehensibly contribute in future story lines. If Martin just dropped them in the story later than he did, without seting up their relationships, behaviours, and intentions they would probably seem hollow and purposeless like so many other characters (mainly in blockbusters).
that's so true! after the show, every time I read the books I can't help but imagine Doran as the actor. he was really good and his eyes were so expressive, you could definitely see the "fire and blood" feeling in him... and then D&D happened
The casting on the show (for the most part) was incredible. The writing in latter seasons - not so much
I feel so bad for Alexander Siddig - who was obviously playing Doran as being the chessmaster that he was, with a plan to dispose of the Lannisters and everything, in spite of D and D's constant attempts at changing him to some kind of spineless leader who bows before everyone without a second thought.
Suffice to say, the actor was very disappointed when he was cut down from 4 episodes to Season 6 to dying in episode 1 - and Dorne could have been so good. It was the first signs of what would happen with Seasons 7 and 8. Oh well...
Yeah it's so frustrating
Especially considering he is a great actor for the part
The way he acted is exactly how I imagined Doran to be, weak writing ruined it all
Siddig was perfect casting - and they stabbed him in the back. In every way imaginable.
A Brazilian RUclipsr (huge fan of the books) interviewed him in some Con. She said “I hated the way you died!” and he replied “Yeah, me too.”
“He’s short and awkward and kind of fugly”
I’m in ASOIAF apparently
I dunno about the first 2 things but you're not fugly
We all are, buddy - don't worry.
If a sad-eyed, soft-spoken man dressed in torn rags ever offers you a shady deal, DON'T TAKE IT!!! 😱
Damn, dude. Except you just burned yourself.
@@LoganBluth wha
I honestly can’t thank you enough for reminding me how complex this story is without being encumbered by the tv show. Thanks
I get the feeling that Myrcella's and Trystane's story will be just like Romeo and Juliet. A love couple of two rival houses getting killed by the rising conflict between their houses
Well Daenerys didn´t reject Quentyn because of his looks or personality but because he literally arrived a day before her marriage. I don´t know why everyones getting that wrong.
Yeah... but you can still break off the marriage...
@@gfilmer7150 She could have but it would have started the violence in Meereen again. By that point there had been peace for 90 days as Daenerys had requested for her marriage to Hizdhar. She was trying to rule Meereen and needed the peace. Barristan even puts it best after the dragontamer chapter that by the time he arrived, she had already made up her mind to stay. Had he arrived sooner, she may have taken up his offer for the dornish armies.
@@dakotasherman632 Unfortunately, he couldn’t arrive sooner. Daenerys kind of backed herself into a corner by saving The Slaves. I’m not saying saving them are bad, but I am saying that she can only choose one, staying in Essos or going to Westeros. She should stay in Essos because of what might happen to her when she goes to Westeros because Aegon “Young Griff”...
@@gfilmer7150 Oh I agree, it was completely beyond his control when he arrived, but by that point Dany had already made her decision and didn't want to go back on it considering what happened to Astapor when she left it. And she did back herself into a corner by freeing the slaves, and by staying in Meereen, which historically was a slaving city, in a region of the world famed for slavery. And I agree with you that she can't have both and has to pick one, but odds are, after her last fever dream, she'll be heading to Westeros once the dust settle in Essos.
@@dakotasherman632 She’ll return and fight alongside Tyrion, Barristan, and Victarion and then she’ll Harrenhal Volantis. Her war with Aegon though... so many will die Daenerys won’t be the loved and victorious savier
*I don't know... the TV show plot really has a lot going for it:*
*"Let's avenge House Martell... by murdering every surviving member of House Martell!" :D*
I men what kind of "idiots" would do something like that...
@@silentecho92able Martels
@@silentecho92able two thin men think they can outdone a fat man
16:50 Ser Robert Strong is described as even bigger than The Mountain. The implication throughout Feast is that all/many of the people Cersei gave to Qybern were added to what was left of Gregor Clegane's functioning body. That's probably his skull; the thing(s) in the armor don't need it anymore.
Yeah, ironically Cersei has given Gregor a more brutal fate than the Martels could have ever dreamt of.
@@akmonra Kinda like what Palpatine did to Anakin after the duel of Mustafar!
I think there is nothing physical under the helmet. May nothing "real" just some evil magic.
Dwarf head.
So Robert Strong is a frankensteinian monstrosity composed of parts of corpses?
The fact that the Martells managed to survive freaking Dragons is an indication that they would be able to survive an invasion by a conventional ground force. I mean its in their blood to rebel and organise armed resistance to any foreign invader. Coupled with the fact that the Lannisters and Tyrells are going to be way too preoccupied fighting the Greyjoy fleet and Aegon's golden company, I think they might have a good chance of succeeding if they manage to coordinate with Aegon's forces.
they survived dragons by hiding. They are kinda weak when it comes to major houses, they just hide and only attack when the others aren't expecting.
@@paulogaspar8295 wdym they can basically Afghanistan the shit out of every major house
@@MC-xd8lp exactly and Afghanistan will never be strong enough to conquer neighboring regions. they can outlast you with guerilla tactics btu to leave their mountains is their doom
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 As long as they're not being invaded by a much larger foe they can project themselves with a sizeable force. Even if their comparative advantage is mastering the land and guerilla warfare they're still a principality, way more populous than during the Targaryen conquest attempts and have been well preserved from the turmoil of the five kings war raging elsewhere in Westeros. I mean at this point the Riverlands have been countlessly ravaged, the North is depopulated and the Stormlands are being rapidly conquered. Coordinated and determined Dorne could strike a decisive blow somewhere.
@@FlorentPlacide
Dorne does best in its own place.
Other houses would need to travel far and wide through the mountains to invade, leaving themselves open to other great houses. Dorne in a straight fight on its own isn't as dangerous as fighting them on their own turf
The "everywhere the dragons danced, the people died" quote has got to be one of the creepiest lines ever written (read in the context of the scene). Martin has absolutely still got it.
I've been pissed at D&D since season 5 because they horribly butchered the Dorne plot. I remember being called a "book nerd" for pointing it out.
Books: Thought out, interesting long term strategies made by two brothers who are polar opposites wanting revenge for their sister.
Show: Men bad, woman good.
Nothing wrong with that brother. There’s a reason why Martin wrote them into the series. If game of thrones tv series followed everything from the books and added characters we’d probably still be in season 3-4 lol
You had the last last laugh following seasons 6-8
So was I. But now we've had the last laugh 3:)
Hey you book nerds are the reason I just shelled out money to buy these damn books. You book nerds are the reason I learned the ASOIF series is far better than even season 1 of the show within the first few pages. I haven't sat down and read a book since I graduated now I've read all of GoT and have started ACOK in less than 2 weeks.
I think there HAS to be more to Doran’s plots than on the surface. I just don’t buy that someone as clever as Doran supposedly is spent the better part of two decades planning to hitch his horse to Viserys and the surely he knew the Quentyn plan was a long shot at best. I will be very disappointed if the Dorne storyline ends up being about the Martells waiting too long for revenge.
Doran details his plot to his child and nieces in Dance with Dragons calmly as they rage. He has planned for Arianne to be the Queen of Westeros, as well as to slowly destroy Cersei's kingdom from within. He has already killed one Kingsguard and has Balon Swann in his court, who he sends on a wild goose chase for the Darkstar.
Quentyn's quest is a disaster, but he is virtually an Yrnwood so he is not that trustworthy anyway. Like the Unsullied at Qohor, he is an afterthought.
@@SantomPh Apparently Quent's more trustworthy than Arianne because Doran actually trusted Quent enough to tell him the entire plan before sending him to Meereen. Doran never intended to tell Arianne the plan at all, but Arianne forced his hand with her hilariously inept Queenmaker plot.
I actually think it's pretty neat, not a story/theme that's explored too often, and given that Tywin and Gregor are dead there's nobody to really get revenge on that'd be half as sweet
@@skibobshipoddlypop but Gregor isn’t actually “dead”. At least in the eyes of the Dornish he isn’t, especially considering the proof of his death was a skull sent by the Lannisters (a skull that obviously isn’t Gregor’s)
I’ve read theories that the skull sent to the Martells wasn’t Gregor’s but Smalljon Umber’s, which the Lannisters would’ve easily been able to get access to after the Red Wedding. It was said that the Smalljon was massive. Not as big as the Mountain, but still
"The ending in the books will be different to the TV show."
Thank fuck for that.
didn’t George said that he more or less gave the showrunners the outlines?
@@duyanhng8430I think he gave some pointers, like that Bran ends up on the Iron Throne; but obviously that’s only the vaguest outlines and events. Given how much the show diverged, they couldn’t just end the same
The ending in the books will not happen.
Doran: "basically I have really ambitious plans, and if one of them succeeds, that would actually surprise me."
It seems Doran Martell took Eisenhower's maxim to heart: "Plans are nothing; planning is everything."
Of course Dorne will survive! Simply because we'll never get another book to say otherwise lol.....
lol
Yeah, there’s 100% no way GRRM lives long enough to finish A Dream of Spring.
don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby.
@John Nada To be fair it's his own fault. He waited too long and relied too much on the laurels of the show to finish the story for him. George is a talented writer, but even he has admitted that he doesn't plan everything out. He writes what he feels is right. This unfortunately means that he can easily write himself into a corner. His comment about TWoW taking 3 years has now ended up taking 10+ years.
The guy could have been done by now. In fact if he just released one book during the shows airing, he probably could have avoided one of the biggest disappointments on TV and the biggest blunder of his creation. Now what? He's overseeing prequel content and spin-offs on a series that hasn't even finished?
Will WE survive the game of thrones books??
At the pace that GRRM writes, we’ll be as grizzled as Greatjon Umber or as old as Maester Aemon by the time they come out.
@@christianfarren1179 You think they're ever going to be finished?
I personally thought they might 5 or so years ago. These days though I think GRRM is just working on other things that he enjoys rather than the giant intensely complicated story he has started.
They will come out when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east soooo.....😓
Ripcookiethief Honestly?
I think they will get finished one day, just not necessarily by him.
A ways back, I heard a rumor that he’s designated someone, some superfan in his will to finish the books if he dies before finishing them.
Which, let’s face it, is becoming more and more likely these days.
Someone else will finish his books after he passes away. So we'll probably read the books a good ~20 years later lol
I always assumed the mountain's skull was actually one of the dwarf skulls. There was one that was described as being bigger than normal, which was supposed to indicative that it was Tyrions skull. Though it was really foreshadowing for the skull in Dorne. Also nice final lines, the Dorne plot is a very poignant reminder of the never ending cycle of pain that vengeance creates.
After this vid I really hope that the skull was gregor's and under the helmet there's only a gnarly necromantic clusterfuck
@@iagocasabiellgonzalez7807 Lol a necromantic clusterfuck does have a certain appeal 😋 We will have to wait and see! I hope this is one of the mysteries we get solid answers to in the upcoming books.
I’ve never felt more compassion and heartbreak for a character like I have for Quentin Martell
I know. He didn’t want any of what he did and feared what would happen to him. His thoughts of his mother are so sad. Like Dany he just wants to go home but there is a definite sense that he knows he will never seen Dorne or his family again.
I feel you. He was a dutiful and austere kid. He's never asked for all of this. Too bad his pride took him at the end of the day. He didn't deserve such a terrible death, he was a child who tried to do the best of his circumstances.
Remember that Quentyn arrived in Meereen on the eve of Dany's wedding with Hizdhar. And she agreed to marry Hizdhar if he gave her 90 days of peace, which he did, and reneging on that plan would have certainly made violence erupt again
So even if Quentyn was a hot bad boy I doubt that Dany would have agreed to go to Westeros with him
Jesus I'm glad he's still ok. this was like a welfare check to make sure Alt Shift was OK.
It’s only been a month?
@@calrut1 in 2020 years that's like ten months
You know he has like 4 channels? Alt shift X, Alt Schwift X, Alt Shift ZZZ and another that I don't remember. He only really posts on Alt Schwift and the stuff on ZZZ is a little out there... That being said, if you want more Schwift you should check them out
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 wasn't Schwift a parody channel?
@@narufan987 nah dude. He does a really long series called Game of Theones Abridged on Schwift which is him reviewing chapters of the book.
I think there might be an Alt Shift Exe?
Here's my theory: A group of women wipe out House Martell to avenge House Martell! Tell me I'm close...
dear god no !!!!!
Maybe Jaime and Bron go alone into Dorne and beat up everyone comically like Terrance Hill and Bud Spencer and then the one lady shows bronn her boobs and he says something funny hahaha
@@belisarius6949 Hmm, yes, that could work, but they need an elaborate plan to kidnap Myrcella. So they should just run over to her in the middle of the fucking palace garden, take her by the hand, and say: come.
No need to thank me for the amazing ideas.
@@szabok1999 And poison Myrcella for, reasons.....
Ellaria sand was the voice of reason. D&D butchered dorne
Doran Martell be like:
"Everything was calculated... but boy, I'm bad at math..."
And yeah, IF the books will be finished (which I doubt since RR Martin is already too old), they will show a different ending for the Martell's and ASOIAF
Fernando Maverick Doran’s plans only appear like they failed. In truth, everything that has happened so far has been according to his plan(exept for the fact that Quentyn is alive).
@@joakimdavidsen9835 I reaaaaally don't think the whole Myrcella thing was part of his plan.
Rodrik Forrester You mean Myrcella getting cut? Darkstar didn’t do that. My boy Gerold is innocent!
@@joakimdavidsen9835 he did
Ice Don’t you think it’s a little bit suspicious that no one saw Myrcella get cut? No one except for Drey, who was constantly by Myrcellas side, and who had been acting suspicious the entire time up until now. Doran is the only one who makes the claim that Darkstar cut myrcella, and that is because he wants the lannisters to hunt Darkstar in order to keep Balon Swann occupied whilst Cersei’s trial is going on. Gerold got framed.
Lots of great stuff here, and you even included the thematic reference to the overripe blood oranges near the end, which is a statement on Doran's vengeance.
One little thing sort of touched on but also missed: When Dany laughs at meeting Quentyn, she explains to her companions that it's because he was using the name "Frog" (and thus a Frog that turns into a Prince just like the stories), but most importantly, she gives her explanation in *Valyrian*, and thus Quentyn and his friends HAVE NO IDEA why she laughed and assume the worst. A later conversation with one of them and Ser Barristan after Quentyn's death makes it clear that his grief-stricken friends blame Dany for Quentyn's rash decision to confront her dragons, a story they will take with them to Doran. It's very possible that this will also spur Doran to encourage Arianne to marry Aegon.
Man. I felt like a small child that was sitting cross-legged on her floor with other children listening to this tale.
Well done. Best on RUclips when it comes to detail.
The dorne chapters were always confusing for me, I was just thinking recently how I wish alt shift x did a video on the dorne plot. WISH GRANTED!!
"Darkstar is Daynegerous"
take my like and get out
Ba-dum-tsss!😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
*_slow clapping_*
The show really butchered the Martell family's story, huh?
There was none
Butchered is an understatement. Hanged, drawn and quartered fits better.
yup, it was when D&D turned into Destrucción y Desgracia
Along with several other stories
@@iagocasabiellgonzalez7807 loco tenés mi suscripción por ese comentario
Dorne is soooooooo different in the books it's like it's an entirely other kingdom in the show
Someone brings Cersei the head of a dwarf with an unusually large head, hoping for a reward for killing Tyrion. It's possible that this is the head that's sent to Dorne instead of the Mountain's.
that is likely, as Robert Strong is obviously not headless.
@@SantomPh Why is he "obviously not headless"...? GRRM makes a point of mentioning a couple of times in the books that Strong NEVER removes his helmet. He could have a pumpkin under there for all we know. 🎃
LoganBluth if he is headless that officially makes Qyburn the most powerful practitioner of magic in our story. I would say making a pair of arms and legs do everything you command it without controlling it telepathically is even more impressive than skin changing/controlling a bunch of dead bodies to attack the nights watch.
@@princexizor5151 Alternatively, why does it have to be Gregor's head under there...? Qyburn's had access to plenty of sets of body parts what with all the women Cersei has been sending him that he's been "using up". It could be Gregor's body with some rando's head sewn on top. OR Qyburn could have sucked Gregor's brain out of his skull, stuck it in a jar, and plonked that inside Ser Robert Strong's helm. Not to mention this is all, y'know, MAGIC and GRRM is on record as hating systems of magic that try to explain themselves via pseudoscience. I mean Jojen literally has visions of the FUTURE, is that really less impressive than making a body move around and obey commands without a head...?
LoganBluth yeah true it could be another persons head. It would fit the frankensteins monster parallel better.
Love how you barely acknowledged the show’s Doran visually as opposed to Oberyn.
The grass hiding the viper is probably my favourite line from the books!
Siddiq was very good in the role.
The more I watch these videos, the more I feel like ASOIAF will end with a lot of these prophecies and armies and magic... amounting to nothing. But not in a disappointing way, like Dan & Dave did with the GoT show. I see it as a continuation of the sobering reality that fantasy and prophecy do not translate so easily to reality. War is brutal, plots don’t always work, magic is unreliable, prophecies are not so easily interpreted... I just hope that Martin does a good job of conveying this when he wraps up this book series, instead of the disappointing shock-and-awe that Dan & Dave went for with the show
Martin says that he likes to play with the idea of prophecies coming true, but in unexpected ways, so you might be right on the money.
Perhaps not in a "profecies are a fool's hope" kinda way, but rather by having prophecies backfire on those who treat them like:
Step 1: find da prophecy
Step 2: check all the boxes (dragon egg, daenerys marriage, etc...)
Step 3: become king of Westeros
Step 4: profit
If you still think these books will ever be released i have bad news for you..
I take the prophecies as a what might be than what will happen. They all rely on the people around them and what they do that changes the subject of them. Like Cersei probably could have beaten hers if she had not bullied Tyrion or had a kid with Robert. Dany could have gotten Rhaego's if she had let the khalasar do their thing. There's a lot of what ifs
If he writes it will be splendidly done.
They all end up meaning more than one thing, possibly. People try to make a universe of possible outcomes be the one they like the best at the time, and that trick never works, as Rocket J Squirrel would say.
I like the idea of cersei trying to burn kings landing in a crazed state after her kids are killed. It sort of fits a cycle to me because when the story starts out we hear about how the mad king wanted to burn the city but was stopped by a lannister. It'd be interesting if in the end it's a lannister who tries to burn kings landing and is stopped by a targaryen (Jon or dany maybe?) If not them I'd also find it interesting if it was jaime who killed cersei to stop her. Idk I thought it was a cool little idea but im not all that knowledgeable about the books lore.
As someone who just finished reading the books, to me, this is actually not a bad idea or theory. Honestly either way, it would still be far better than the ending the show gave us. 😅
or the Blackfyre boy, Feagon, migh stop the flames.
I prefer to think of the dorne storyline as a reflection of their house sigil.
The sun and the spear,
Doran is a prime example of this; like the sun he has omnipresence his meticulously crafted plans encompass Westeros and essos, and even takes the slightest details into account.
But he is also represented by the spear; a symbol of single mindedness and tunnel vision, hell bent on one thing and one thing only, vengeance.
And in doing so this combination is a detriment to the future of dorne. Irrespective of who is the prince/princess.
Perhaps enact the “Last Wall Protocol”? It will bring the Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templars and the other successor chapters. That will save Dorn.
Reading a 40k reference in a GOT video made my morning, thanks 🙏
Does game of thrones in title, rather than A Song of ice and fire, do better in the amount of views?
Just mildly curious
A lot of people don't know what A Song of Ice and Fire is -- but everyone knows what Game of Thrones is.
@@AltShiftX And that's sad because the books were so much better from the beginning
@@NoOne-ol6dw especially with respect to Dorne in particular
“Game of Thrones” is snappier and easier to remember. While ASOIAF is poetic, more to the point titles are more common. I can’t think of another franchise with as many syllables in its title.
@@NoOne-ol6dw Yeah, Game of Thrones roles so much better off the tongue than A Song of Ice and Fire. Even though I'm a huge book fan I always call it Game of Thrones. I also feel that it fits better for the whole series, especially how it eludes to it being the ultimate goal which of course it is not, just like how the people in the books believe it to be the ultimate goal when a far darker threat looms over them.
"Gnarly Necromantic Clusterf*ck" is going straight on my band names list.
It was originally "Gnarly Necromantic Clusterfuck, Courtesy Of Qyburn", for the alliteration
@@AltShiftX courtesy of Qyburn could be the first album
@@bmabhilash01 Euron's Eldritch Apocalypse could be the follow-up.
Preston's theory about Doran sounds more plausible - Quentin is closer to the ironwoods than the martel's, he was sent with almost no help in the company of sons of unfavourable houses. If he succeeds, good for Doran. If he fails, good for Doran
As far as I'm aware, Oberyn's poisoning of Edgar Yrowood is only a rumour. I think that's actually quite important to his character, he adapted to the "Red Viper" moniker rather than brought it upon himself.
After watching your recent video of "The REAL Tyrion" and now this, I understand now why the show went downhill way earlier than what the popular belief is and what I believed in as well which was season 7+. Man, if only it was possible to have a remake or something akin to the anime called FMA: Brotherhood to do justice to GOT itself would be extremely nice.
I would prefer an ASOIAF animated series than another live-action series!
imagine in arcane artstyle
@@PedroLucas-mg5je Same
a remake? maybe in 40-50 years idk hahaha
After season four it went steadily downhill
Four ice and fire videos this year? We are blessed.
You are single handedly keeping the GOT flame inside me alive! Thanks so much for the amazing video. The Dorne plot is one of the more interesting plots in the books and its great to see a more clear-cut explanation of the state of things.
Check Radio Westeros
This videos give me so much comfort.
I think it's a mix of your accent, my love of GoT and your knowledge of GoT.
Knowing GRRM's love of taking someone else's idea and making it his own, as well as his love for english literature, I cant help but think about Hamlet with a revenge plot that takes way too long. I think the ending for both might very well be the same....
I will never understand why they skipped/altered this entire storyline in the show, even if George RR Martin hadn't figured out exactly where that plot was going any person with a cursory understanding of the story he wrote would realise Aegon and Arianne had a significant role to play in the overall outcome of the story.
“Three seconds ago” well alright then.
Yessir been waiting for so long for one
Thank you for this. The character assassination of Dorne, the Martells and the Sands that was perpetrated by B&W was enough to raise every spear of the South in demand of justice. I was so hopefull after the casting of Pascal who actually nailed Oberyn and Siddig who is an amazing actor as Doran. And then... I can't even speak of it. This was when I started realising tha B&W had no actual understanding of what Martin was doing, nor that they had any hope of bringing the series to a satisfying conclusion.
Is this the beginning of a "Will *insert any major house here* survive" series? Cos I'm game
There’s certainly a reason you have this many subscribers , videos are extremely well thought out and articulated to perfection. Hats off to another cracking video 👍👌
Thanks so much! We try.
Quentyn’s arc reminds me of the show.
"oh"
Doran Martell was so skilled at the game of thrones that he executed his masterplan, had it fail spectacularly, and no one even knows it ever happened.
Truly a rival to Tywin, Olenna, Litrlefinger, and Varys.
I'm still getting thru the book series, it's hard w two young kids. One w special needs. I can't thank you enough for helping me understand this insanely complicated universe and it's history!! It's only been a yr of my GoT obsession, it came when I was a newlywed and started a new family. Buying and renovating new home. Then second baby, postpartum then COVID-19. I NEVER knew how great it was! Makes sense since I've always been a LOTR geek before it was popular lol. I watch as many of these as I can , they are an awesome guide!! ❤️
Oberyn’s head is on the mountain’s body I’m calling it right now
Didn't the hound smash his head? Just asking 😂
They cut off Rob Stark's head, and parade around his corpse with stitched on wolf's head. What happened to Rob's head? And why is Cersei's champion called Robert?
@@redrave404 dunno. Cersei had a husband called Robert too ...
GRRM: Quentyn is dead
Preston Jacobs: Right. But is he though?
I watched his video like a week ago xD
We need preston and alt shift to collab
I was wondering about that! I haven't read any of the "floating" chapters that GRRM has out there for Winds of Winter. Do any of them confirm that Quentyn is definitely dead?
@@Goldenbane lol no.
@@jeanvalero1597 Please god, NO! Even if DoS ever DOES actually come out, Preston will still be obnoxiously denying R+L=J and condescendingly calling fans gullible for believing actual EVIDENCE-supported fan theories LOOONG after the series is finished.
I am kind of amazed how interesting the story of Dorne is. I haven't read the books yet, so I only know the rough early plot from the show. It is noticable that the books go way more in depth, which is nice.
The only person who says Dark Star attacked Myrcella is Doran, and we know him to be deceitful and manipulative.
We also know that Myrcella had a double... maybe they kidnapped the double and the whole plan was a wash to begin with?
Gerold did wound the real Myrcella, who is in Doran's court. Arianne kidnapped the real one because she wanted to annoy Cersei.
@@SantomPh
Yeah, I know what she intended to do. That doesn't mean it's what she actually did though.
And you fail to address the fact that we actually don't know for a certainty that Dark Star did it. The chapter is Arianne's POV, and she didn't witness it herself. She only heard it was Dark Star from Doran, and like I said, he's proven himself to be manipulative and not always truthful.
And either way, if you blindly believe anyone other than Ned in this series, then you're a fool.
@@Richard_Nickerson lmao. "Other than Ned".
How I miss that honorable fool.
Dorne more than anything is defined by bad timing. They are married into the royal family when rebellion strikes. Viserys dies right before the realm goes to war, and Dorne could've killed off the Lannisters. Qwenten gets to Myreen a few weeks too late. Arrianne finds out about the plans a bit too late. Oberyn waited a bit too long before finishing off the mountain.
Started chugging through the books, and I'm halfway through the first book. I'm really liking it so far, but I have trouble focusing so I usually only read one to three chapters a day. _So_ much depth even just in the first chapter with the direwolves and the characters immediately recognizing the symbolism before even the reader would if they came in not knowing anything, and how that symbolism influences people like Cat to act in a certain way, and then combined with some conspiracy theory stuff things like "What if the wolves were sent there by e.g. Bloodraven?" and ugh even just in that there's so much more depth than the show. Thank you, because without you and other people like you I probably would not have started reading them
You'll love them
The 4th and 5th books are separated geographically. My first read was as is, and i got a little stuck with several cersei chapters almost in a row. For my second read i followed a chapter rearrangement called A Ball of Beasts which combine both books in a chronollogical order, and though more complex, I enjoyed much much more.
Hope this helps when you make the decision.
These videos always ALWAYS get me so pumped to re-read the books and of course, lord willin, get to read TWOW. They are a gift, thank you for doing all this work.
While I was super hyped up by one of Doran’s last speeches when he reveals his plotting I was kinda hyped, but I seriously think he’s mostly just been coping about not being able to do anything, and instead of admitting that he’s overpowered by the Lannisters he tells himself he’s just being sneaky
I don’t know which I like more, the Grand Northern Conspiracy or the Grand Dornish Conspiracy?
A Song of Ice and Fire tells the series of conflicts that brought down the great houses of Westeros.
The Martells have one misfire of a plan after another and are waiting too long.
The Arryns put their trust on a mockingbird and are being slowly taken out.
The Tyrells are trying to grow in the field of fire.
The Baratheons were fighting each other and now winter will make make them a extinct species.
The Tullys definitely will be dead in frozen waters.
The Greyjoys will end themselves with the fire and ice they will set free.
The Lannisters had one great lion and now his children can't live up to this legend.
The Targaryens will burn everything and themselves.
And the Starks will in the end prevail all of it and be remembered and honoured in history, but go extinct in life afterwards.
Yes, that's just the story and message of the series - finished or not - put in a nutshell: The total destruction and extinction of the great ruling families for the loss of autonomy and individualism to push a cultural, social-political pabulum steered by some-ONE creepy to rule them all.
Many can't imagine this to be true. Because isn't the taste of saccharine sweet peace just as authentic and beautiful as Lennon's one-world anthem...?!
I really loved your comment, as it is simetric and poetic (an not necessarily literal), but I think Tully's may survived at the end by the line of Edmure. Also others houses may have at least one survivor member, as Lannisters (Tyrion), Stark (Sansa, and Arya), Martells and Tyrells, but most of their members will die.
@@pedroalitovar6624 - Unimportant. The few survivors are cut off from ANY power and influence. THOSE are put in the hand of a non-human spirit residing inside a physically and mentally crippled boy. Solely and for an unknown amount of time.
ONE ring...
The Martell's did more than just sit around and wait though, check out Qyburn and his dealings, and there's evidence pointing to Quentyn being alive and having tamed a dragon, Arianne's negotiations will most likely fall through with Aegon and the Golden Company because of her cousin Elia and will likely be used to take Storm's End while also destroying Mace Tyrell's army.
House's Lannister, Tyrell and Hightower will lose many of their members to greyscale and Euron Greyjoy, Willas and maybe Garlan will make it out alive but The Reach will be devastated and their armies are going to be destroyed.
House Lannister might not be able to recover for generations, their reputation will be destroyed thanks to Cersei and Lancel.
House Arryn will likely cause a long and harsh civil war in the Vale since their cadet branch will want to rule and Robert Arryn will likely die from the stress caused by the chaos of his immediate heir dying in the tourney and the truth of his mother's death coming to light.
Walder Frey will likely die of old age and with an invasion from the Vale thanks to familial ties to claimants they'll likely be cut down to a handful of members since there'll be a second Red Wedding by the Brotherhood Without Banners that will destroy their numbers and any men brought by the Lannister's.
House Tully looks like it'll be fine in the long run, the Stark's will be fine but the Bolton's will be rightfully wiped out once and for all.
The Baratheon's will be an extinct house in the end unless Edric or Gendry are legitimized, Victarion, Euron and Aeron are going to die leaving the Greyjoy's with Asha, if Theon survives alongside her.
Bran will for some reason end up ruling in the end so the Targaryen's will die out as well.
@@Aeterny Well, Lets hope that be Bran who rules at the end, and not Bloodraven throught his body.
I told myself I'd do a reread of books 1-5, set for like 2016 when I believed we would find out a release date for TWOW... what a sweet summer child I was.
I don't remember anyone who was mentioned in this video or any plot from any book in the series,, but I can't wait to see what Ned is up to in the 6th book.
I think the Martell story will end with the Martells nearly all consumed by the conflict and die on different sides, but with Doran still sitting in the ruined Water Gardens, having lost everything, Maybe with Ellaria present to reiterate her argument for peace.
Now that would be cinematic!
reading the fight between oberyn and the mountain in the books for the first time was one of the most shocking things I've ever read. i literally reread what happened and put the book down in sadness for a few hours.
Haha yes me too. One of those sentences you had to do a double take to believe what you were reading.
I think it’s fitting that Doran suffers from gout. Gout primarily affects the joints in the legs, keeping the patient bound to one place during flare ups. Doran’s emotional pain keeps him from moving, stuck in one spot as opportunities slip by.
The kingdom that was made a farce in the show. Well before the shitshow of Seasons 7 and 8. A real shame.
The Martells are probably my favorite part of ASOIAF. the show did them dirty....dirtier than everything else it messed up.
A masterpiece of writing, production, entertainment and education. This video is the first "Spark" of light I've had since HBO's assassination of the characters and story.
Bravo brother!
"Sometimes fire and blood only makes ash."
*chef's kiss*
And that's why I watch this channel, that line is just perfect.
GRRM once said that dorne would be a place he'd prefer to live in.
Well it’s similar to New Mexico
It is so fucking painful how much potential there was with this all of this. The twists and turns and intrigue of not just this arc but everything else as well and the end result was just so painfully phoned in.
The hero never dies
Robb Stark: Am I a joke to you?
@AM a will which presumed Bran and Rickon dead (theyre not) and Sansa married to a Lannister (she's not, i mean not really. Baelish openly plots to marry her to some other guy). Imagine if Jon gets the Northern throne, everything's all lovely, except Bran trots back into town.
I gotta say, I absolutely love the extra use of book and fanart to go along with the show images. Fantastic video as always :)
“Sometimes ‘fire and blood just make ash’” EXCELLENT metaphor
I think this is a little to simplistic in regards to Dorans plan. Oberyn’s travels (creating a sell sword company, likely allies with Littlefinger, controlling the brave companions etc.)
I agree with your main point, but what evidence is there that Doran is allied with Littlefinger?
Andrew Seal Doran mentions working to bring Tywin Lannister down. Littlefinger has undermined the Lannister’s even before GOT. His borrowing of $ from the iron bank knowing the Lannister’s will hold the throne via Joffrey/Tommen. Oberyn started the sellsword company the brave companions which appears to work in Littlefinger favor as they switch sides at convenient times. There’s other things that I think allude to them being allies (for now). Check out the order of the greens hands vid on it or reddit threads. These are theories but based on Doran’s description I do believe it’s plausible
@@michaeleaverly7943 Fair enough. It's definitely an interesting thought that I'll have to look into more.
I do think most of his actions have been to cause disruption, chaos and conflict that he will be able to benefit from and climb the ladder, so I don't know whether I buy him working specifically in conjunction with other significant players. And while I agree he has definitely undermined the Iron Throne, and the Lannister regime, I think the only people he has intentionally and conclusively wanted dead are Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, Tyrion and Joffrey.
GoT is over, most people hate it, but I love watching Alt Shift X's video on that subject.
"GOT is over, people hate it..." Good thing this is not about GOT, then
This is no GOT vídeo...
@@Boxeard oh yes the was NOT A WORD in the video about TV show. My bad.
One aspect of the book plots that I found hard to believe: The Martells are still staunchly pro-Targarean. Their hatred for the Lannisters is obvious and natural. But we don't hear them express much resentment for the fact that Raegar ran off with a Stark girl. Is it cuz they're more chill about monogamy? But that's what got their sister and nephew/niece killed. I always expected them to be all like: a pox on both your houses, we're declaring independence again! But Oberyn and Doran remained secret Targarean loyalists. Oh well, it makes for a good plot.
it's possible they didn't fully understand it and didn't know about it,plus ageon was still going to be king so it makes sense on why they still supported the targarean.
“Dornish men fought for his kingdom and Elia and her babes was trapped at King's Landing until their grotesque death. I'll get to kill the others but i will have to wait for the afterlife for Rhaegar to meet my blade" -Oberyn Martell
doran martell is only vying for ‘targ restoration’ bc
a) he wanted dany’s dragons (and after what happened to quentyn he’s never gonna side with her)
b) bc of (f)aegon being elia’s son. it’s all calculated to the advantage of house martell not bc they are loyal to the targaryens.
its not adultery that they are fine with lmao. they just fine with sex in general, adultery is still looked down upon and oberyn was upset that elia was abandoned for lyanna
Oberyn has many mistresses and bastards. For Dorn, this is normal. Without the Targarians, Dorn won't have the strength to retaliate. They need to be allies
Your voice is so soothing, exactly what's needed for this kind of video.
i sleep watching your videos every night. your voice is very comforting
I live for these videos, amazing!
Imagine society if Alt Shift X was the voice of every audio book
Ok, wow, give me a second here, it’s a lot to take in. Ok. So, we have:
1. Littlefinger’s plotting
2. the Varys/(F)Aegon/Blackfyre conspiracy
3. the Dorne revenge (+Targaryen restoration?) schemes
4. the Brotherhood Without Banners and Lady Stoneheart’s quest for vengeance
5. various separate Northern conspiracies to restore House Stark
6. Maggy the Frog’s prophesy
7. the visions and prophecies of the Undying Ones
8. Euron’s eldritch mass blood ritual/sacrifice that will provide him with godhood (+the possibility of krakens, sphinxes, maybe even Cthulhu?)
9. Bloodraven’s schemes and puppeteering
10. the special Targaryen bloodline
11. the Azor Ahai stuff
12. Quaithe’s spiritual guidance of Daenerys
13. skinchanging/warging powers creating lots of potential opportunities for characters to stay only temporarily dead
14. the mystery of the Others, their origin, culture and goals
15. the Horn of Joramun
16. Dragonbinder
17. Arya’s kill list
18. the maesters’ agenda
19. Jon’s ancestry
20. Cersei’s ambitions
21. the legacy of Old Valyria
22. Melisandre’s plots
23. oily black stones and Lovecraftian Deep Ones
24. cursed places such as Valyria and Asshai
25. the Starks’ true origin and heritage
26. the secret of Winterfell’s crypts
27. Daenerys going back to her family’s savage roots
28. the direwolves’ significance
29. the Bloodstone Emperor and the legend of the Long Night
30. the complex political situation in Meereen
31. Theon’s tragedy
32. Jaime’s atonement and path to righteousness
33. Stannis’s war and battle strategies against the Boltons
34. ancient pacts between humans and other species
35. R’hllor and the Great Other
36. …
I’m sure there’s much more I’m missing here, but just compiling that one list has made me so exhausted I want to take a nap. It’s also made me realise that if George RR Martin manages to somehow tie ALL OF THIS together and conclude the series in a genuinely satisfying way, then he’s nothing short of a genius. I have zero tolerance for D&D after their many screw-ups, but taking a step back to look at the richness of the story and the sheer scope of the world these characters inhabit has made me sympathise with them just a smidge more and understand why they chose to dumb down the narrative and simplify many of its complex facets. I’ve read hundreds of amazing books, but none of them come even close to matching the complexity of this series, the motivations and personal tragedies of its numerous characters, the fantastic worldbuilding and the symbolism that permeates each storytelling aspect, all of it resulting in a grand narrative of truly epic proportions. God, I can’t wait for the Winds of Winter to arrive already… Please, Mr. Martin, please… please…
Personally, I don't blame George for taking this long to finish the series!
0:05 i hereby start a petition to remove the greyjoys from the list of great houses, they control a few cringe islands and dont even produce anything, cant even sow smh
I approve🙋♂️
Not only that but their entire culture is based on plundering and stealing lol.