Hooded Man: who is the Ghost in Winterfell?
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
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Who is the mysterious hooded man in Winterfell? Is he conspiring with Rowan and Crowfood Umber? Is the hooded man Robett Glover, or Harwin, or Hallis Mollen? Is the hooded man a ghost? Is Theon a kinslayer?
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Images and video from Game of Thrones used under fair use
House heraldry art from The World of Ice and Fire
Wyman Manderly art by Borja Pindado: www.artstation.com/borjap
Barbrey Dustin art by shebsart: / shebsart
Jeyne Poole art by eluas: www.deviantart.com/eluas
Roger Ryswell art by Amuelia: / amuelia
Theon Greyjoy / Reek art by LynxSphinx: www.deviantart.com/lynxsphinx/
Lady Stoneheart art by Zippo514: zippo514.deviantart.com/
Westeros map by Klaradox: www.deviantart.com/klaradox
Hother Umber, Aenys Frey, Mors Umber, Hosteen Frey art by Dragonman14x: www.deviantart.com/dragonman14x/
Walder Frey art by Gibi Lynx: www.artstation.com/gibilynx
Theon Greyjoy art by Felicia Cano: www.deviantart.com/feliciacano
Bran Stark weirwood art by bubug: www.deviantart.com/bubug
Ghost: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
References & further reading:
forod: asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...
Lost Melnibonean: asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...
Lady Gwyn: ladygwynhyfvar.com/2015/10/25...
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0:00 Winterfell
1:28 Murders
4:00 Conspiracy
7:20 Robett
8:55 Harwin
11:09 Hallis
13:40 Killers
16:01 Ghost
19:47 Kinslayer
22:06 Hooded Man
Who do you think is the Hooded Man?
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Some guy named Alt schwift X is the hooded man.
I know who! His name is Robin!
ruclips.net/video/WorgQGCFeLM/видео.html
theon was called a kin slayer because one of those boys he murdered was his own son. he was sleeping with that one guys wife so the child was actually theons when people thought bran and rickon were killed. and theon knew there was a good chance it was his own son. he is calling himself a kinslayer
he was sleeping with the millers wife so the kids he kileld were his own bastards thats why he calls himself kinslayer
Great job as always, guys! I think its Glover, although I could see it being Harwyn
Its a bunch of children of the forest on top of each other’s shoulders under that hood
Playing the long game
Ready to retake westeros
It's probably Arya's wolf.
His name is Vincent Adultnorthman, thank you very much, show some respect. He works in a business castle as a junior viceroy of conspire plannings & secret comings and goings.
Vincent Adultman lol
Man wouldn’t it be cool if this book was adapted into a show?
They should actually wait for GRRM to finish the books before adapting them into a TV show. They might actually end up running out of source material which might lead to horrendous improvisations from the show runners, ruining the entire show. Wouldn't that be a tragedy?
@@abrarbw I love how we collectively memory holed a certain show based on an unrelated series of really awesome books.
@@abrarbw It would be even more of a tragedy if they scrapped 2,000 pages of material in books 4 and 5 in favor of writing their several seasons of shitty content, all while whining they ran out of material. :P
@@disclaimin RIP Doran Martell (in the show). I knew it was going to get bad then, but didn't know how bad yet. Every season confirmed it more and more, but the final one was the ultimate garbage fire.
Oh my sweet summer child. What do you know of adaptations?
everybody asks who's the hooded man, but nobody asks how is the hooded man :(
Why is the hooded man?
Why not the hooded man?
Well... How's the hooded man? :/
@@gregmcgregginton574 Doing pretty good apparently. Murdering Bolton lackeys, helping out the mannis, laughs at Theon, hooded man's pretty happy.
@@someorclad9738 alright cool, good to know :)
I can't tell if George deliberately sets up all these different possible answers or if the fans are just really good at speculating.
Definitely a little bit of both
The answer is actually george doesnt plan for anything.
He lets his characters grow and surprise him.
Thats how he writes.
@@princesurein7275 I think by "letting his characters surprise him" he meant wait 1000 years to release each book, read all the fan theories and take ideas from them.
@@eyeballpaul700 assuming thats true, what's wrong with that so long as he ends up writing a great story ?
@@princesurein7275 hes not exactly the healthiest person ever, really hope he doesn't just die and with shows like house of dragon are distractions for the books that might not be completed
Maybe the real hooded man was the friends we made along the way.
All the friends we made waiting for Winds of Winter
Yes
Guys what is this reference i can't remember
Maybe the hooded man was inside us all along.
In a way, each of us has a Hooded Man to face someday. It just so happens that Theon's Hooded Man is the _actual_ Hooded Man.
Alt shift X: *explains a theory*
Me: "yeah sounds logical"
Alt shift X: "but there is a problem with this theory"
Me: "oh ok"
*rinse and repeat like 5 more times*
Same xd
Alt Shift X videos in a nutshell
@@nathanielcopperfish912
SOIAF fan theory debate in a nutshell.
What need for new books as long as we can keep arguing about the identity of minor characters in the old ones?
Yeah that's what I like about them... Compared to, ahem, certain other youtubers who go to crazy lengths to convince you THEIR insanely clever theory is right... Alt here just lays out the facts and the possibilities. No lobbying, no theory prejudice, just good honest info.
@@jesse1086 Are you referring to a certain... Preston?
It takes a minute to recalibrate my thinking to this point in the story. Theon is still Reek, Tyrion is still trying to get to Danny, John is still "dead" and so on.
@@mugenspiegal7415 is far more than good imo. TV Show was never good as books. Not even close.
Didnt Theon/Reek make his escape? Thus reverting to Theon?
@@thecocktailian2091 Once the weirwood (Bran) whispers his name he considers himself Theon again and starts pretending to be Reek
Theon is now Theon again. He is no longer Reek. In a sample chapter (TWW), Stannis has him chained to a wall at least 6' off the ground by his arms. And even through all the pain, Theon constantly tells Stannis that his name is Theon.
I gotta read last 2 books again if not all of em
I think people are overthinking the "kinslayer" part. He's "kinslayer" because everyone in the North perceives him as a Stark. That identity crisis, Stark vs Greyjoy, has always been central to the character.
And who knows, there might be a bit of dramatic prophecy at play. If he were to kill Euron, then he'd be a kinslayer for real.
Lol, literally nobody in the North considers Theon a Stark.
Everyone in the North sees Theon as ironborn scum. He's a Greyjoy, he's not a Stark by any stretch of the imagination.
@@augustusfreeman4032 yes that is obvious but the point is the nothern lords expect familial loyalty fron theon since he was raised with the starks. who arguable gave him a better childhood than the greyjoys would have. plus theon does consider robb his brother, so theres psychological turmoil from that. theon betraying robb and murdering "bran and rickon" can be seen as kinslaying by nothernlords and himself due to the expectation of loyalty (nature vs nurture). plus nothern lords didnt know how theon felt about being raised with the starks, they just assume it was a good upbringing bc of ned's reputation and therefore expect the utmost respect and loyalty to the starks from theon.
That would be such a humiliation for Euron - the eldritch god killed by his frail and castrated nephew.🤣
@@augustusfreeman4032 true, they don't really see theon as a stark but rather they think he should see *himself* as one since he was raised as one along with the stark's own children
Jesus, Howland’s collecting important characters, items, and information like they’re Pokémon.
He could be borderline deus ex machina and yet I still want him to show up and announce that he's going to destroy the 7 kingdoms and rebuild them with frogs or something.
I Stan Howland Reed. Honestly I really want hin to have a scene where he reveals that Jon is the rightful heir to Robb Stark and also (if we stick with the Targaryens and ignore the Baratheons who ruled by right of conquest, and the excuse that Robert had a smidge of targ. blood) also the rightful heir to the Throne, if Rhaegar and Lyanna got married first.
@@francescapatti2934 The Targaryens also ruled by right of conquest. Aegon I Targaryen, founder of the Targaryen dynasty, is also called Aegon the Conqueror.
@@francescapatti2934 But... Jon isnt the rightful heir to Robb.
@@someoneontheplanetearth97 He wanted to legitimze Jon. But even if Jon gets legitimzed, he isnt the heir of Robb as hes not the son of Eddard
Crazy how they got 6 identical wildling women to go to Winterfell
Sextuplets!
Obviously not a lot of genetic variation in the True North, just look at Craster!
@@HellbirdIV Hard to get genetic variability when you live up in bumfuck frozen nowhere. Not exactly a vacation spot.
The woman portrayed in those identity pictures is the same chick who fought, and died, in the "Hardhome" scene, on the show. It would actually be awesome if that's who she really was, but in the books, she's never AT Hardhome when the wights attack it, thus she never dies, and actually becomes an important supporting character to Mance, in Book Six...
Then again, I'm probably just having fantasies about that character, because I have a "crush" on the actress who plays that lady in the show, and was always sort of pissed off that she died, like a scrub, at Hardhome (part of me, at the time, had hoped she would be Jon Snow's next "wildling love interest," after he'd lost Ygritte).
They are all different
I always thought the reason Theon sees Bran's face in the weirwood and hears the voices in the godswood is because Bran is watching/talking to him through his magic tree power stuff. We know people can hear him when he tries to communicate from when he sees his father in one of these visions and tries to call out to him
Yeah, I came looking for this comment. I'm pretty sure that is Bran trying to talk to Theon.
"The wind seemed to whisper 'Theooon'" is how my paraphrased memory of it went. I don't have a book on me to look up the exact quote, but anyway...
This is how I remember it and why I'm convinced of that too.
The timing also lines up i think, since it's after we see bran drinking the weird paste, thus when we get these theon povs he would probably be doing the three eyed raven stuff.
@@Mankepanke yes and the tree goes on to say “Bran!”
Oh, Bran was definitely spying on Theon from the trees and fucking with him, that's just fact.
The one thing I haven't seen discussed is the idea that the Ghost in Winterfell is ACTUALLY a ghost - a restless spirit of a dead Stark. And I like the idea of it being Ricard or Brandon, it'd explain why they know who Theon is, why they hate him and the lack of swords to lock them in their graves plus the lack of a living Stark in Winterfell allows them to be the Stark in residence.
If it is, it's possibly Brandon. Because Brandon never was shy or cold.
How does Rickard and Brandon know who Theon is?
Because Theon would play in the crypts along with the other Stark children, if you buy in to the idea that a ghost actually resides in that grave@@tyfoparalax8894
@@tyfoparalax8894 ig if Ghosts can perceive time and see Winterfell like us humans it wouldnt destroy the lore but it being Rickard or Brandon is just lame. Like let it be his inner consciousness that might think that he killed his Kids if its true or not. The hooded man is certainly not for him so why would he represent the good option of Theon being that he killed random farmboys.
Dude, like everyone in Westeros has a cloak and dagger.
CONFIRMED: HOODED MAN REPRESENTS WESTEROS
maybe its one of madonna's childrens books characters... maybe its jj abrams looking for his next mystery box ...
@@belisarius6949 Expectations subverted instantly!
@@korzbro35 Maybe the Hooded man was the friends we made along the way
Hell, House Banefort’s charge is literally a Hooded Man
There's also the fact that Theon freely shows the hooded man his maimed hands, but he was much more uncomfortable showing them to others. That could support the ghost theory.
As if he is trying to argue "But look, I served my sentence, no need to judge me anymore! Have mercy"
@@msgreymatter4061 Nah, in the books we clearly reed that Reek has suicide tendencies. If someone would try to kill him, Theon wouldn't fight back and he will just accept the "gif".
While he didn't personally kill Bran or Rickon, maybe Theon feels responsible for the (apparent) death of House Stark as a whole. As far as he knows, Bran, a crippled 8 year old, and Rickon, a toddler, are playing survival of the fittest in the North during a violent war, and Sansa and Arya have nowhere safe to run, because he took Winterfell. Robb sought comfort with Jeyne Westerling because he thought Theon killed his brothers, leading to his and Catelyn's deaths at the Red Wedding. If "kin" isn't literal, maybe "slayer" isn't either.
I like this idea it makes total sense
This seems like a simpler explanation than the Millers boys being his sons.
The Northern Houses Quarantined together sounds like the basis of a hit or miss dark comedy
Some say the scripts for the good ending of Game of Thrones Season 8 are buried in the crypts of Winterfell...
Na the scripts never got farther than barrowtown and were fed to the dogs
The crypts are safe, guys! Nothing bad can happen in the crypts!
Lame
The winds of winter blow but as the visions we are given they aren't what we think
The scripts of the good versions of Seasons 5, 6, 7, and 8.
It's a big part of Theon's torture that he cannot tell anyone that he's not actually a kinslayer, so maybe by having been told so many times that he killed his brothers and painfully keeping this secret for so long, now he's also starting to unconsciously believe that
I mean, he doesn't know that the boys are still alive. The last thing he knows is that they escaped with a young boy, a girl, Hodor and two dangerous animals. The only one able to fight is Osha the wildling. Their chances to survive in the wild for so long aren't that great.
@@bitterfox518 Rickon is in Skagos and Bran is on his way to becoming an omniscient-tree-god-thing. They did.
Of course, Theon does not know for sure.
On some level I don't think he'd give a definitive answer unless pressured into answering because he sub consciously thinks he deserves a massive punishments for the crimes he's committed against the family that took him in.
The dude seems suicidal thinking about how he should have died with Rob his true brother.
Thanks for the information, Mater
it doesn't matter if he killed his brothers. he murdered two children.
I think TheonGhost calling Reek "Kinslayer" does actually fit (even without the Theon killed his kids theory) with his previously cocky and sarcastic demeanor. I think Theon would call Reek Kinslayer to make just to make fun of him, as a sort of cruel joke.
Plus kin could refer to just him killing starks soldiers/the population that he grew up with
"And this poor flint fucker was probably just kicked by a horse" fucking killed me. The way it was sayed
A real kick in the gut.
We all know it's Robett's lesser known half-brother with Summer Island blood: Donald Glover.
I AM CRYING
Don't forget their cousin Corey Glover, who sailed to Braavos to form a "Cult of Personality".
I wish he could have been in it before it ended would have been hilarious
THIS IS WESTEROS.
What😂
He protecc. He attacc. But most importantly Alt Shift X's bacc
Now that the show is dead and gone, he can focus on actually interesting plotlines and lore rather than the mess that was jumbled together in the show and passed for a story.
@@cattraknoff Indeed!
YES!! 👍
I really love the idea of the hooded man being a literal ghost of Theon. It scary and extremely cool.
ghost of Theons past?
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊l😊@@judithbradford9130
She’s not just “a girl called Jeyne”, she is one of Sansa’s best friends. And once Sansa finds out what happened to her she’ll be horrified and furious about the abuse she went through.
I think that will be the end of Littlefinger when she finds out about Jeyne. Because in the first book, it was Petyr who took Jeyne away from Sansa so she wouldn't tell her the truth of what happened to Ned and his men. Or not cause he's a damn schemer and will find a way out..
i read her name as Gene Pool after we learned they were gonna pass her off as a person with defined genetic traits
@@vyceros7062 And when she find about that he betray her father too? Sansa will ruin, bury and burn Petyr's whole career.
Sansa can't do shit.
She's a girl called jeyne
They should hire Alt Shift X to read the books for an audiobook.
That would be really good. Didn't care for Roy Dotrice's (rest his soul) narration.
They should hire Alt Shift X to finish the books...
@@Outis89 I thought he was pretty good. Harry Lloyd would do a fine job. He narrated the Dunk and Egg audiobooks.
@@GodlessGrandpa Mr. Dotrice was by no means terrible. I enjoy his natural speaking voice, but his character voices and pronunciations were wildly inconsistent, not even from book to book, which is a common enough occurrence, but within the same chapter, which seems excessive to me. Pronouncing Brienne "Bry-een" and Petyr "Puh-TIE-er" to name just a couple. Plus, it's pretty awkward having to listen to a 90+ year old British man making girly sex noises.
All that said, I was spoiled by Jim Dale reading Harry Potter when I was a kid, and to this day, its still my bar.
@@GodlessGrandpa And yes, Harry Lloyd's performance was excellent.
AltShiftX: Maybe it was Hallis...
Me: Yes definitely Hallis, it all fits!
AltShiftX: Or maybe it was Theon...
Me: Yes, yes, of course, it was Theon!
this is literally me the whole time watching this vid
I really appreciate that your content will delve into both the literal "who is the killer" breakdowns AND the thematic analysis. Too much RUclips analysis/theory videos pretend that stories like this are equations to be solved and totally miss the emotional core the fantasy world exists to convey.
Theon could be a kinslayer because he kept saying that “Theon is dead”. Hooded man may be accusing Reek/Theon of killing himself, that is, his identity as Theon in his mind.
But then how would the Hooded man know this? Unless the hooded man was an alter-personification of Theon himself, as suggested in the video
I would totally buy the hooded man being an externalization of Theon's psychological damage, but personally, I like to think that he's a manifestation of Winterfell. I've always believed that in the end, the old kings will rise from the crypts to defend Winterfell against the whitewalkers. With no Stark in Winterfell, the old magic is stirring and the hooded man is just the first to wake
Holy fuck dude. This is like the best theory I've come across
That would be pretty cool ngl
Lol thats insane. Also the detail that theon says the first floor of the crypts is crushed. (Sry for Bad English). Thats where the Stark who faught the king of the night should be, among the first starks
Perhaps Theon considers himself a kinslayer as a result of the death of Robb, in wich he contribute in a certain way
Yeah that's what I felt when I read 'A dance with dragon' the first time.
Just killing starkmen would do to be honest
Theon doesn't regret betraying Robb, there is a line in adwd where he sai ''I should have died with him'' but that's it. The kinslaying refers to the boys he killed and burned, Robett Glover would know this because of Wex, who was in Theon's room when he had those vocal nightmares about the kinslaying.
@@Jesse-fd5bv Why do you think "I should have died with him" doesn't indicate that he regrets betraying Robb? That's always told me that he carries a lot of guilt and regret about his betrayal of the Starks
@@QuakerMC Agreed. He has a lot of guilt about his betrayal of Starks, so for me, the hooded man is Reek/Theon's imagination of his former self. And I think Theon believes he deserved the flaying because Starks were more like a family to him than his actual family. That's why he the hooded man calls him kinslayer.
You've mixed up the two Walders. Big Walder was the nicer of the two, and was older but smaller. I think he killed Little Walter because the little shit went too far.
I don't think so. In the book he was very distraught by the death.
@@paularmstrong2020 He was found with fresh blood on his clothes with his cousin's body. And he also stated that he's *going* to be the Lord of the Twins, no matter what happens. Plus he also has gotten deeply uncomfortable with his cousins behavior, and is nice enough to talk to Theon like he's a person and not Reek.
@@tabulldog2743 Preston Jacobs has a video called Frey in the snow where he talks about how it seems like Ramsey may have killed Little Walder. He could want to get the Freys out of Winterfell as they are loyal to Roose Bolton (and his pregnant wife who night knock Ramsey down in the line of succession if the baby is a boy)
I would have liked the video, but it had 69 likes and I didn't want to blight something that good.
Exactly Little Walden was bigger and evil. He was the one who actually enjoyed hanging with Ramsay. Big Walder was the one who was kind to Theon and disgusted by the things Ramsay would do.
Robb Stark was like a brother to him, far more so than any of the other Starks. His actions heavily contributed to what happened to Robb and his death. He is indirectly responsible for Robb's death. That could be why he was called a kin Slayer.
I like the theory that the hooded man is Theon's guilty conscious.
Good cool theory
@@bubblegumbitch2191 thanks 😊
*Conscience.
There ae many reasons as to why many cite the Northern plot as their favourite part of ADWD. This is certainly one of them
Mine is Stannis
It's a really neat murder mystery in the midst of an epic fantasy story, you bet it's my favourite part of ADWD.
Winterfell has so much going on in ADWD and it's just so cool that finally we're back there.. but it's broken. Like Theon.
Yeah I like the Northern plot, and Tyrion's story the best in ADWD.
@@timocruz510 Or Brienne's chapters in AFFC. Getting inside her head is heartbreaking. And the show turned her in to a killing machine. Which is equally heartbreaking, but for different reasons.
I like Jon’s story line best. Him trying to navigate being the lord commander is really interesting.
If Howland Reed doesn't show up in the next book, there will be a riot. He is the definition of a man that knows too much.
Wait..You think when Theon heard Brans voice and saw Brans face in the Godswood it was an illusion?
I was pretty certain it actually is Bran trying to communicate with Theon just as he tried to communicate with Ned when he saw him in a vision. I think in the two scenes Brans voice was even described in the same way. (as a 'whisper in the trees' or sth like that)
3:23 Imagine being the Flint parents, wondering, if their dear son fought bravely until the bitter end or some other brave shit only to be told.‘Yeah, he got kicked by a horse.‘
Did Theon really see a hooded "man"? Perhaps it was that horse.
I misread "kicked" as "dicked" and I laughed for 5 minutes until I realized what you really wrote
@@jlshel42 Maybe the Hooded Man was Roach from Witcher 3.
@@andrean733 well... There HAVE actually been a guy that died like that so... Not THAT unrealistic I guess.
@@jlshel42 bojack is that you?
Bless the books. The Winds of Winter are coming to put out the fires of those sad summer children.
BUT WHEN???
Goerge just said in an interview that TWOW is coming out next year. But he has been saying that for years.
Abrar Wahid yeah, that means nothing by now lol
Soon™
@@abrarbw He did NOT say Winds is coming next year lol. Show me a link to the article
This was an amazing investigation of a question from the books I'd forgotten about. What a shame that Dumb and Dumber completely ignored the whole "The North remembers" subplot.
Imagine how much more detail could’ve been fleshed out had they agreed to HBO’s suggested terms of making around 10 seasons ffs
Theon killing his own sons is a really interesting one, especially since all the torture and horrible things that happened to him happen shortly after he killed the boys.
He’s not old enough to have a son of Brans age
8:25 “Robett Glover fits” I guess you could say... the Glove fits
If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
I see what you did there.
Leave
@@Dee-nonamnamrson8718 if chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit
The real hooded night is Oj Simpson
Maybe Theon's ghost calls himself "Kinslayer" not for those children, not for Bran nor Rickon... but by Robb Stark. We know Robb and Theon were bestfriends, even as brothers, and in a Theon's chapter he was thinking about the Red Wedding, and how bad he feel about it: that he should've been there with Robb, that he should've be dead with him... Maybe Theon feels like that because he thinks he is responsable by Robb's fall; that he has the fault of his bestfriend/brothers' death. He could evite it but he didn't even try, does then he provocates it? No, it's not his fault, but he could have done something about... Now he is a kinslayer, he is guilty for that, and for that he is broke. But he is not done with the gods, he still can do something.
now this is food for thought
Well, I think Robb would die either way, Tywin wasn't counting on Theon betraying Robb. Red Wedding would still occur, probably a little bit later.
Theon after being tortured him beyond repair that made him reek. Theon is a good example of that traitor don’t go unpunished even Tywin and Roose bolton and Freys and everyone who backstabbing each other just leads to more backstabbing
Robb losing the war had a lot of factors despite winning every single battle...but winterfell being taken was absolutely a crushing blow
@@hez859 He also made everyone think that he killed Bran and Rickon including Robb caused him to sleep with Jeyne in grief of losing his brothers and then marry her because of wanting to live up to what his father would've done and because of Jon causing the Frey alliance to break
I like the idea that the hooded man was actually The Stranger come to reap Theon, for real and not just metaphorically, and Theon was actually able to say "Not Today" so The Stranger did just that, and left to get him another day.
Anytime you make a video, I can only imagine the number of times you've read the books & the wikis. Not to mention all the hours compiling the information and constructing these videos in such an organized manner. Great video as always.
It hurts me every day seeing how many amazing stories were left out of the tv show :(
and how many that will never be finished in the books
@@drany6707 better unfinished than having a god-awful ending like the show if you ask me.
They somehow managed to make winterfell the most boring plot in s7
We don't know yet if theon murdered his kids
*Bran enters the chat*
how about just some maths, Theon was 18 at start of ASOIAF, if the millers kids were similar ages to Stark kids then Theon would have fathered them when he was like 10 years old...
@@glennross85 Glad there is someone in the fandom who realizes why this theory is incredibly unlikely, despite its popularity. Most people seem to suck at math. Lol
Only one of them is his son, the one who is the same age as rickon
Man the books seem to have more detail and better writing in some parts however I don't like reading so I won't read them anytime soon
Glenn Ross rickon was 3-4 years old at the beginning of agot. He could have fathered the younger and not the older.
Man, that transition just before 14:00, where you call out who's behind the murders.... I can't explain it but your videos and your take is on ASOIF is structured so well. I can't stop watching and rewatching, it's like a storybook.
The bleak tense atmosphere of winterfell in dance is one of my key reasons why I love it. While feast might still be my favorite my appreciation for it took multiple rereadings dance clicked with me the first time through and upon subsequent rereading it gets better and better. The northern plot is probably the number one reason for that theon goes from one of my least favorite characters to quite possibly top five material real goddamn quick. His entire ordeal in winterfell is gut wrenching and every time a Reek chapter starts I can't stop reading until I'm finished the chapter. What a missed opportunity.
Skyrim Guard: Took an arrow to the knee
Winterfell Guard: Kicked by a horse
Look at my horse, my horse is amazing, la la la...
14:57 You're mixing up your Walders a bit with that portrait. Big Walder is the little one, Little Walder is the big one. You're using a picture of Little Walder to portray Big Walder.
Ah the Freys. There are like 50 million of them, and more than half are named Walder, Waldina, Walda, Waldo or whatever.
I honestly love the Freys just because Lord Walder seems to genuinely have NO shame, and I just love that for some reason. He fights for the survival of his house, he doesn't care who he has to swear alligemce to, to do that.
Oh the Targaryens are in power, sure I love them, oh Robert has started a rebellion to overthrow them, seems like they're winning, ok well fuck the Targaryens.
I just like it, because it is very realistic.
Francesca Patti I now want to lowkey search the books for Waldo Frey. It would be awesome if he popped up with a twins banner on a white and red striped background.
@@someoneontheplanetearth97 Where?
@@someoneontheplanetearth97 😂😂😂
Yes. The one that was killed, little Walder, was the asshole. Big Walder, who was smaller, is nicer and actually talks to Theon.
The Theon chapters in ADWD are some of the best fiction writing of all time. GRRM does such a great job of conveying the fear and tension in the air in Winterfell.
Extremely surprised to see Mance Rayder not mentioned as a possibility.
"Did he betray the only people who really loved him?" No, unless it's Robb specifically; in the books, he alone accepted Theon. That he was always kept on the margins and never given the sense of familial belonging and acceptance he needed as a nine-year-old child is fairly integral to his development as a character.
As for the theory that he killed his own son - I've always disliked it because I feel it undermines the thematic importance of the miller's sons. Theon had two children killed to cover up his blunder because he was afraid to be seen as weak. That's tragic in itself, and a terrible thing to partake in and remember; it haunts his memory, much as he tries to assure himself "they were just some miller's sons". The miller's boys in Theon's story fold into a greater theme in ASOIAF's narrative, on how the smallfolk and people of "lesser" status are seen as expendable, even less than human by those playing their "game of thrones". Theon needs to contend with what he did and recognize the humanity of the miller's sons because, like Jeyne, their lives matter in themselves, and having one be his secret bastard seriously undercuts this broader motif.
Nevertheless, a fantastic exploration and breakdown of the theories on the whole (I'm partial to the psychological projection hypothesis myself), and I anticipate any future ASOIAF analyses. :)
He's just outlining the popular theories. He points out the flaws in every one.
Henry White Don't get me wrong, I think he did excellent work breaking down these theories! I just found that statement to be misleading on the subject of Theon's relationship to the Starks, and wanted to provide an additional, more thematic point against the “secret kinslayer” theory (especially since I've seen many fans treat it like a confirmed fact).
Well not to mention that, for the children to be of the correct age, he'd have to have been "active" at 13 or 14 (considering he's 20-odd). And even then, fertile enough for it to "work" (not to mention that the miller's wife's own fertility is in play too).
Your thematic explanation is very satisfying though
@@MadManchou It's possible to be fertile at 13 or 14. Perhaps the wife was very fertile but her husband was barren. Then a couple of times might be enough for him to be the father of both children.
What a spot on comment. It feels like a narrative trap many creative minds fall into; trying to overdo the drama to a point where the original purpose is lost.
"Next book"
nervous laughter
@@chrisbruhe if he does he said he had given his work to a select few and they might just get it done faster, GRRM's death might be a sacrifice for the Gods 🤔
@@thewanderingartists I thought he didn't want other people to finish his books?
@@Sanian38 I only heard that, not sure though.
@@thewanderingartists Well I sincerely hope that you're correct.
@@Sanian38 it does look like he may never be able to finish DoS
Reading it the first time, I just assumed Mance Rayder and his crew were the killers. Glad to see I was not the only one who came to that conclusion.
Yeah, you and Reek both
I LOVE that book theories are making a comeback! Thank you so much for this :)
That shot of everyone having fun behind the scenes of the first season really hurts now lol
I’m addicted to Alt Shift X’s voice.
It's weird... but it inspires me to write
its like this dude called kraut
Lady Gwen and Yolk boy in their Theon episode presented the Harwin theory in more detail. It kind of works, since Theon thinks winterfel is full of ghosts and in his fever dream when Rob comes with arrows sticking from his chest, he sees Harwin as well, thinking all who went south died. So Theon might have seen Harwin and thought it might be a hallucination of some sort, making Harwin "a ghost in Winterfell".
Regardless of writing quality, I would like to acknowledge Alfie Allen for how well he pulled off Reek. That thumbnail picture is perfect for showing how much Theon has lost both physically and mentally
We all know that the hooded man is Ser Pounce
Ser pounce? Oh you mean ashara dayne
It's Balerion the bad cat of King's Landing.
@@shardes that name hurts me because of Rhaenys' story
That's dumb. Ser Pounce is going to Celganebowl to finally kill his archenemy, The Mountain's dog.
Nah dude. It's Daario disguised as See Pounce with a gas can and a lighter.
George includes him in literally 2 paragraphs, and we’ve spent hours debating him.
Incredible.
I think the Hooded Man is either Hal Mullen or Harwyn, with me favoring Harwyn. But I don’t think the Hooded man killed anyone. I think he’s there to see if Arya is real for Stoneheart, and all the murders save Little Walder was the Spearwives, and Big Walder killed Little Walder out of malice
This is why I don't really get the point of theorizing about stuff that isn't even written yet. Seems like a waste of time honestly but I do like learning extra lore tidbits. I mean just wait until the book is out to get the answer why spend time making theories up about something we have so little information about?
@@louis8487 Because it will never be written, maybe... Just hopes and dreams.
Big Walder was most likely killed by Ramsay not Little Walder. Preston Jacobs did a great video on it ruclips.net/video/_CaDHo9BsJI/видео.html
@@louis8487 I don't really read or write, but the authors put stuff like this in their works BECAUSE they want people to theorize and put the threads together in order to form a conclusion. It's a fun thing to do, it kills time, and it's not like there's any harm in coming together to solve a mystery that will probably never be resolved due to lack of book releases.
nah its def theon he is deranged now. 1000% himself
I've seen this video multiple times. I love the tone of this video, how it's all put together so well. Love the presentation and your narration..
IM SO GLAD YOU'RE BACK!
Never clicked so fast in my life
FR lmao
Same
Same!
I've clicked faster for boobs, but this was close.
Same same
Even after all this time watching the channel, these theories still blow my mind with how good they are
alt shifts got videos are brilliant
I thought Lady Dustin was in support of the Boltons from the conversation when Theon led them to crypts. She still seems upset with Ned Stark when her husband Lord Dustin didn't return after Tower of Joy. I might have to do reread in case I missed some key points.
I remember she tells Theon in that really creepy scene in the Stark crypts that she hates Ned and even wants to keep his bones from returning to rest with his ancestors. Not that she seems for house Bolton, because she's instigating fights the whole time while Roose is trying to keep things from unraveling.
"The wolves will come again" said Jojen.
8:19 'Robert Glover fits'
I see what you did there.
The Hooden Man gives me major Schrödinger's cat vibes when you started talking about them being the embodiment of the North's loyalty to The Starks and how it could be anybody who represents it. Maybe we'll never find out and that would be really interesting.
I can see that happening, that the hooded man is never really heard from again. Although I am guided more towards the idea that it is only a "ghostly" representation of Theon's guilt. A narrative representation of the stranger who will follow Theon to the end. I don't know ... Theon seems to me such a tragic figure that a ghostly figure following him to his final sacrifice on behalf of the Stark would be interesting to watch.
This if we take as a fact that his end will be one similar to that shown in the series, where he sacrifices himself for Bran or some other Stark.
I've never read the books but just going from this video, he started to sound rather Batman-ish, too. "maybe it doesn't matter who the Hooded Figure actually is, but he's representing an idea..." etc
Highly complex, strongly addicting, highly sought after: Alt Shift X.
Thanks for yet again magnificent content, X!
I appreciate these videos so much 🙏 the work put into adding quotes and references and photos is so helpful to understand all of these complex relationships and stories. Love it.
I like the Hal idea because the HM announcing "Theon Turncloak" and Hal having the penchant for "stating the obvious".
I think Harwin is pretty convincing too
The hooded man may be the blackfish. He is not dead in the books and most likely went to the rogue mode to save the last one of his kin
I don't think so. Pretty sure Blackfish will show up in Riverlands in TWOW prologue to save Jeyne Stark (Westerling)
But would the Blackfish recognize Theon?
@@jonnavdpas He might have heard enough about him around the castle to recognise him when they met.
@LagiNaLangAko23 yes, we dont know if she is or isnt pregnant. She also has a claim by herself. Even if she is not pregnant any baby would do. Also edmure Tully is being tranferred
@@SerDiesel90 what do you mean by 'any baby'
14:54 You're mixing up Big and Little Walder. "Little" is the biggest and cruellest one who's taking more and more after Ramsay and he gets killed, while "Big" is appaled by Ramsay's cruelty and his influence over his younger cousin.
One thing the "kinslayer" line might mean if the hooded man is a manifestation of Theons trauma. It could mean that in his mind he's trying to decide who his family is. Ironborn or Stark, they aren't exactly friends so no matter who he ended up loyal to he'd have to betray someone he saw as kin.
Great video, I had forgotten how amazing these books are. George R.R. Martin is one of the best writers I've ever read, I can't believe how deep the stories get, each arch is so complex that new theories about them are made even after 10 years of not having written any books, and this complexity stems to the characters as well of course , they are as complex as a real person would be. I can't fathom how all of this came from the imagination of just one man, GRRRM must be a genius.
he is a genius he gave us 5 books, and then a decade of wait and he may not even finish the story, he s a jerk to me
Theon's split personality, thought that was a good theory based on what I read of the book... Like 5 or 6 years ago.
That’d be the simple and obvious explanation which is very unlike GRRM
@@210SAi Jon Snow being a Targaryen was pretty simple.
Jimmy Brooks that’s not been confirmed in the books
@@210SAi I think it's pretty likely dude. We already saw it happen in the show. It'd make no sense for it not to be true in the books unless George just wants to spite the people behind the show.
"Theon Durden" I believe?
My dude, I'm glad that you're still doin' these, and I hope you continue to have success with these videos for years. I've enjoyed 'em for years, so...hey, g'luck!
The shifting imagery editing on this is quite good
That Segway to the Express vpn ad was so smooth
I am always amused by these humorous transitions. But I would much prefer, if the promotion of the sponsor was in its own different tone and atmosphere, like the listings of patrons and other announcements in the end. It is always so sad to realize that the content is over, even though he is still talking in his "theory-voice". Breaks my heart every time.
The Hooded man wears a cloak... he is the ghostly embodiment of Theon Turn*cloak*
Hahaha yes, sometimes the literary view is the plainest :D
🤯
Because he’s so psychologically fractured
Theon admits to lady Dustin that he wanted to be a Stark. That's why his ghost would call him kinslayer.
Love this one. Gassed to be here so early in your journey! Vieira definitely deserved a name drop in the voiceover
Alt shift X and Preston Jacobs are my go-to guys for my Asoiaf Fix
Order of The Green Hand is good too
"In the next book" pls it hurts so much
Another fabulous breakdown making one plot point so very interesting! There are so many plot threads that I had a hard time connecting them altogether despite reading all the books back to back. It's clear you have to read the series more than once. Given you masterful interpretations may I ask how many times youve read the series so far?
With his guilt and tortured mind, Theon’s subconscious could be accusing him of being a kinslayer because in his own mind he wanted to be a Stark and grew up with the boys like they were his brothers so it could be his own way of dealing with his guilt of betraying Robb but also with his response of not being a kinslayer he could be confronting his own guilt and on the way to forgiving himself a bit since he didn’t actually kill Bran and Rickon. It could be him having to go confront his worst thoughts about himself that are holding him back from being able to be Theon again.
Good stuff! Maybe one day our great-grandchildren will find out the truth when TWoW is released!
*if
Theon being a real kinslyer is a bit of a stretch based on the ages of the characters involved. At the start of the series, Theon is 19, Bran is 7, and Rickon is 3. If the miller's boys are around the same age as Bran and Rickon (lets be generous and say they're 6 and 2), Theon would've had to have been around 13 when he had his affair with the miller's wife.
Yeah, I was about to say the same.
Only one of them needs to be his son for him to be a kinslayer. It could easily be the younger one, at least it seems to fit well with what we know of Theon.
I may be confusing the show with the book,but arnt the kids orphans and sent to the millers to live? So not theons.. but that is probably me confusing show and book. sorry x
Would've probably had to be 12 actually, even if the kid was 6, because you need to count the 9 months of pregnancy.
Maybe its only one of his, the other one could be the miller's son for real
oh how badly was I missing your GoT videos man...! thank you!
Your theories and way to tell them are the best, mate.
23:27 Have a look at the 'legitimate downloads' Alt Shift X has during the ad.
lmao thank you I skipped the ad part so I didn't see it. Top humor
I can't believe he would download a car!
Need me some of the Alt Shift XXX Adult Parody
Winds of Winter 2024, A Dream of Spring 2038. The sad part is that I don't know if those are optimistic or pessimistic numbers 😂
linking.park.intheend.exe is my favorite.
I always thought hooded man was Mance Rayder..
cause of how he was sent there by stannis while melisandre burned rattleshirt? with a bunch of spearwives or something? dressed as a bard? also mance mentions multiple times how he can break into winterfell at will? like once in the beginning to just to check out the king?
me too
Dunno why Mace would have such a problem with Theon that he'd want to attack Theon on sight though.
I always thought this was a reference to Hamlet. Theon sees ghosts, and his arc in this chapter is to decide whether "to be or not to be".
I’m so glad you finally did this topic. This is one of my favorite mysteries in the book. I personally generally like the Harwin one the best but I think it being Theon’s subconscious is more George-like. I never caught the Rowan part though. I could also see GRRM leaving this open...he likes to do stuff like that.
23:27 "A.Dream.of.Spring.2038.epub" I think that's too optimistic still
Any children born this year would be already adults to read it then!
I wish the show stayed on track with the books. Idc if I’d still be waiting for the final season to drop. The books just sound so much more interesting.
Damn if Stannis didn’t die in the show he would hav absolutely destroyed any enemy he came against even the Wight walkers would be going up against a way better defense.