The Secret of The Stark Bloodline | The Legend They Forgot | A Song of Ice and Fire
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2018
- The Richness of the legends and myths in a song of ice and fire is one of the many things that attribute to its greatness. This episode of IOIAF CAST we explore the Legend of the Night’s King and Queen, who ruled over the Night Fort for 13 years performing unspeakable acts of black magic until they were taken down by the King in the North and the King Beyond The wall.
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The Night Queen may also be the reason that the men of the Watch swear to 'take no wife' as part of their Oath. Even Master Aemon says that love is the death of duty.
I think what he meant was that love is the one thing men will consistently place above duty. Ask a brave soldier to march to sure death in order to save a mission he believes in, and many will. But how many brave soldiers would be willing to follow orders if instead of their own death being the consequence it was replaced with the death's of their most cherished loved ones? Most people, soldiers or otherwise would find it much harder to follow through with their "duty" if they believe they have the ability to save the people they love most by shirking or abandoning their duty.
I've always thought this too!
After first hearing the tale of the 13th Lord Commander, I also believed that the first 3 lines of the Night's Watch oath was added to reflect that particular Commander's behavior in an effort to see that it never happened again, so I'm with you on this.
Louise Bentley yes it may be based on Catholic priest who used to marry but at some point (around the 11 century) celibacy was virtually mandated.
Makes sense seeing as to open the Black Gate, built into the Wall itself, you don't need to say that part. Also the "wear no crowns, father no children" part might have been added later in response to the Night's King.
"The Seven Kingdoms kinda forgot about the Nights King and Queen"
- D&D
@Fabian Kirchgessner Didn't they orginaly wanted to take all magic out when making the show?
"It made sense to them, because they wanted it to happen"
You are a treasure.
If only the writers of the show had half your passion and intelligence for this world.
Your so right.
Umm you mean the writer? And he does. He created all of this, and he’s continued to be pure genius. Not his fault you’d rather watch a garbage TV show.
Fact: Beagles Are Best no I specifically said the writers of the SHOW
Millennial Alchemist I know I just prefer to pretend the shit show doesn’t exist.
Was an abysmal representation of the source material, but still a great show. That's how good the source material is, they can fuck it all up and still be great.
The door asked; "Who let the dogs out?" And the Well whispered "Who, who, who, who?"
That's fucking underrated lol
I'm dead
Rick Baker hahahaha
Lmao!! Oh man!
Probably my least favorite thing about the 90's.
Rewatching this after GoT s8e3 episode just makes me feel sad.
BUT WERE YOUR EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTED?!
Lmao. I'm right there with you. They did pull out more of the white walker story line cause they are gonna go thru it in the new prequel supposedly. So I feel they just killed him off and went with the mad Queen Dany thinking it might be more shocking. Instead just disappointed people lol
@@undeadpolo5796 i think that the way the book gets to the end will be different
@@FramesByDan vague comment so I agree.
@@undeadpolo5796 George RR Martin is an ambiguous kind of guy
I hold to the idea that all of Old Nan's stories are absolute truth in every detail, carefully handed down through generations of specially trained elderly women. It's not her fault if people aren't listening. (And they went "underground" when the male-only maesters got politically powerful).
Have you heard the theory that nan may be a child of the forest who had been waiting for bran
Yeah I also believe Nans stories
There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Maybe there is more to that saying. A Stark in Winterfell. A Stark at the Wall. A Stark beyond the Wall.
That would be a great saying!
There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.. A *specific* Stark - the Nights King.. he may not be “a” Stark but “the” Stark that this refers to.. he must remain in Winterfell.. forever in the Crypts.. part of the Pact?
I think there is some crucial piece of information that the wildlings know which the people south of the wall ignore. Hence "the north remembers" and the "you know nothing" phrases.
!!!! Yep.
Yea, it definitely seems like the north forgot something important. Some deal that was struck long ago that the starks have reneged on.
The north remembers.... And then they never say what they remember lol. The north remembers the true king of the north has the last name Stark.
@@undeadpolo5796 Too bad the show never really explained or really explored any of this...
The North remembers, The free folk remember, The dragon remembers -> we know nothing :D
I think an ancient pact being broken is a very good way to make the White Walkers more interesting villains. In the show I get the feeling they forever will be complete villains. But if they have motivations which make them more grey, than that is what game of thrones is about.
In a way they are not very gray because it seems like the white walkers are more like AI gone rogue or climate change, but if you want them to be grayish then my best guess is they just want to live and mankind is their biggest fret they cannot live safely unless they destroyed most of humanity, and enslave the rest into giving them babies because you know
In fact, GRRM is a horror author as well. He's even won awards for his horror short-stories, like Sandkings and Nightflyers. The man is unstoppable
and pear shaped man
Sweet Cindy grrm got it goin on up in that trunk. bootyman
Grrm can do it all..sci-fi first , fantasy and horror..
jonyskinz philly the real horror is his big front butt hiding his little acorn and his ass being too fat to wipe properly
Unstoppable. Aside from writer's block. ^^
Won't lie, the "You guys requeste a pact, we agreed, then you broke it, this is your comeuppance" theory is actually pretty great. It actually makes a lot of sense. The White Walkers are coming from what is rightfully theirs, an idea very commonly used elsewhere in the series as a justification for war.
It is nice to know that the apocalyptic doom has a valid casus bellum! And here I thought they were unreasonable chaps...
The timing makes no sense.
O
The Others. In the novels is the Others.
@@loremasterdasmodeus8285 ew a book snob
When Jon meets Ygritte and tells her his name is “Jon Snow” she says it’s “an evil name”. At first I thought it was because he was a bastard but the free folk don’t care about that. So it could’ve been another stark bastard named Jon snow
beachp23 good catch!
I thought the exact same thing!
Peter Steel, disagree. You also have Jon Umber. It's said in the The World of Ice and Fire that the First Men typically had short names for their houses, so that's probably true of their first names. Jon was named after Jon Arryn, but Jon is not an atypical northern name.
There was a King in the North named Jon Stark, he drove raiders from the White Knife and built the Wolf's Den.
CulinVlau I agree, to a certain extent. I do however believe that Jon could be an Andal name, and that it's presence in the north is due to the fact that the Andals and the First Men have been living together for the last 4 thousand years. Usually, the names of the major nobles reflects their ethnicity but that is not always the case. Eddard named Jon after Arryn to honor his father figure (and also as a hint from GRRM that Ned wasn't Jon's father), but that's all we really know about the name. All the examples we have of its use are after the Andal invasion.
In the US we see names from all over in use. We don't usually stop to think about how one common name might be from Greece or Germany when our ancestors were from Finland or Ireland. Some people try to adhere to their roots but most just pick a name. And we haven't been mixing nearly as long as the Andals and the First Men.
For example, in real life the name John is fairly common. But how many people with the name are actually Hebrew?
They really should have hired you to do the audio books. A true storyteller voice.
Ann Leslie absolutely! I hate the guy they actually have on it
Daniel Rich We should start a petition
They should hire you to do the voice of telling the story of the winds of winter if it ever comes
"Chased her, caught her and loved her". That sounds less lovey and more rapey. I wonder if there are even darker secrets inside that story.
he was probably enchanted or something. Like melisandre and stannis.
How does one rape icy creatures? Dicks don't fare well in the gold.
I was just watching a Tony Teflon video that used the same quote and thought the EXACT SAME THING!! Like what if he wasn't supposed to do that and now vengeance is upon humanity because of a ancient northern rhagar/lyanna story
@@Aliexei Too true! But where magic is involved, the usual rules can be suspended ... and let's not forget that he did lose his soul when he entered her, so it's not like there was anything natural or 'hot-blooded' about it.
@@Aliexei you mean 'cold'
I think it's related to why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell...but in a much more mundane way than one might think.
If the Night's King was a Stark, and he "gave his soul" to the Queen, that could mean that they were married, and them being married means their child was legitimate.
If all the legitimate heirs of the Starks die out, the Night's King's family become the legitimate heirs of Winterfell. The wall could be the result of a treaty that divides the two Stark line's hereditary claims.
This would also explain why the King who knelt decided to kneel. Him staying alive to hold the seat of Winterfell would have been more important for continued peace in Westeros than any worldly title.
That would explain why the Stark lineage in Winterfell has had a big influence/presence over the centuries in the Nights Watch.
The nights watch give up all claims so the child could never be legitimate, there must always be a stark in winterfell is said first by a tully not a stark so people seem to got attached to that line that isn't nearly as important as people make it seem.
Tormenta Mathan Tormenta Mathan Tormenta Mathan The Night's Watch gave up their personal right to succession, but that doesn't delegitimize their offspring. A baby can't take the oath to relinquish their birthright; the fact that that can make things complicated would be why they eventually made the "no kids" ammendment to the rules.
And whoever coined the phrase has no bearing on what it means. I'm not saying I'm definitely right, it's just a hypothesis, I just don't see how those points debunk it.
ianrusttattoos I love your take on this. It really does make so much sense. Bravo! 👏🏼🙌🏽
I also feel the secret was known amongst the Starks but was lost when Eddard's father and oldest brother were burned by the Targaryens.
I think the best fantasy contains horror motifs in it. Song’s main genre isn’t horror, but it has a touch of it. If the Starks descended from an Other baby the lord of Winterfell refused to kill and raised as his own, that would perfectly parallel Jon’s story with Ned as the lord (which he was), Lyanna as Night Queen, which works symbolically, and Rhaegar as Night King, which is interesting aesthetically (and maybe implies the Targs are offshoots of them by their looks, but I don’t know). Song constantly shows history repeated. I think Martin has given us the answer all ready, but not directly.
I really like your manner of thinking
When I read the night's king story I immediately thought of stanis and melisandra in the books she has red eyes and is always warm even at the wall. Her and stanis create shadow babies that can't cross the walls is storms end due to the magic in them (also built by Brandon the builder) and in the books the others are referred to as pale shadows. Maybe the night's queen is a shadow binder from the lands of always winter where the others are said to come from. I see the lands of always winter to be parallel to the shadow lands where dragons and quaithe the shadow binder are said to come from.
What are your thoughts on that?
Yep, the nights queen is no ordinary women. She was a greenseer like bran or a witch. I think she was Nissa Nissa and azhor azhai created the sword lightbringer by plunging his sword in her heart. She turned into a other
The Night's Queen had hard white skin and eyes like sapphires. The Others aren't ice zombies like the shows version, the White Walkers, they have both culture and language.
You were supposed to make the comparison between Melisendre/Stannis and The Night's King and Queen. When GRRM had Melisendres figurine commissioned, he also had her model painted blue and white commissioned at the same time.
@@carlyh6913 Could she want revenge for that?
Me too!!! With the idea that the Children made a deal with the Great Other, it totally makes sense that these two women (priestesses) would have similar powers.
The Night's Queen is the anti-Melisandre, who slept with a Lord, made him a king, and used his soul to create shadow-babies. Mel's babies are shadowy and fleeting, because fire consumes. But ice preserves. Her babies are the white walkers.
angelblack764
She does seem very like the icy equivalent of Mel.
There is a light blue, some might interpret as icy, version of statue of Melisandre.
@@carriezen8499 where?? Please let me know. Did I miss something?
They're certainly comparable, but limited, in my eyes. Stannis didn't become king through Mel. It's uncertain if Mel and Stannis had Sex, and offspring is speculation in both cases. Also, Mel doesn't come off as nearly as mysterious or powerful with her own perspective.
The NK is theStark that went missing with his 12 companions? Jon Snow of Ancient times?
Part of the pact might have read: "Starks must always remain in Winterfell", which became there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. They are bound to Winterfell...possibly to protect what's under it? They always die when they leave.
Ned left with Robert. Did he die?
Alexander Kostin Yes
And I as a german thought Winterfell is the exact description of the castle's purpose, because it protects everyone inside of it against winter. 'Fell' means fur or hide. A winter fur like animals do have in winter months. Winterfell has a hot spring beneath its walls. Plus I think the name Stark could also be german origin, because it means 'strong'.
Cyr Aethzius Nah they're tyrannical enough with a constant manipulative strive for power to be connected to Germans.
@Joshua Summers-Tongue it's starting to look like it. Even in the EU they slowly try to take power lol
Also, the ice Queen would have been Lady Stark. The Starks killed her, so where would they bury her? Now you know why it's always cold in the crypts of Winterfell and why one section is collapsed.
angelblack764 yes!! I thought about that too!! 🙌🏽❄️
It's cold because it's in the northern reaches of the world and it's underground. People usually kept food underground in the past because it was always colder regardless of season. The collapse is because it's old, almost 6000 years old.
Sorry, didn't want to ruin the fun, but this video is just too tin-foily for me.
Mihir Lavande I agree.
The crypts should be hot, due to the hot springs, yet they are so cold, characters see their breath down there.
Craster is so familiar with the Starks that he can tell Jon is one just by looking at him which makes me wonder if he once lived in the North or is related to the Starks.
Well, Craster's dad was a member of the night's watch & his mom a wildling from white tree.
I mean he’s probably seen benjen before
@@WildeMermaidcrasters dad is maester aemon!
When he talks with Jon about keeping his vows he’s tells him he was tested 3 times, then proceeds to tell us about 2 of them, he even says “what’s the love of a woman compared to a vow, or holding your own son”
After rereading it and trying to disprove it I was only able to help confirm it.
Also the ages of them both match up and since “there’s power in a kings blood” then it’s obvious why the others work with craster, he has no sons, no heirs, so every time his wives birth a son then by their laws that son is his heir, and he continues to sacrifice them… I’m interested in who crasters mother is… at the very least her red hair seems to have been important
It's quite sad watching how the series ended. Watching your videos I feel much more magic and epicness
And the child was Loki, a son of ice giants raised as a normal child.
😂😂
Lol that's the Marvel lore. Loki per Norse mythology was Odin's brother, Thor's uncle, and Hela's father.
@@777LoveStory it was a joke bro.
Well played sir. Well played 👏
Corpse Bride is an interesting choice of words. Isn't it said that House Dustin in ancient time were pale as corpses too? Is there a connection between the White Walkers and the Barrow Kings?
Funny because a barrow is an ancient burial ground.
A couple notes; Lilith actually predates Judaism by quite a lot. She appeared in a variety of different mythologies as a demonic figure of the night - usually one that seduced men and kept them from getting a sound nights sleep. Second; ending conflicts through intermarriage has been one of the most common practices all through our own history so it makes sense that it did the same in SOIAF.
It was a really bad idea for me to listen to this late at night when I’m home alone. Genuinely spooked. Well done.
Same
same...
Great theory. All the First Men + Targaryen stuff links to Bloodraven being just as much "ASOIAF" as Jon. The Others + Targaryen is surely what Jon is.
Starks have always had WAY too many comparisons with ice to be overlooked.
Sir this is an awesome theory, I am a firm believer that the Stark family does have some VERY dark secrets in their history
which explain some of the things associated with their guardian ship of the North
The wall is not just ice it was said there are spells woven into it.
Stannis' story is starting to mirror the Nights King.
Daemon Blackfyre
There are certainly parallels.
@@alanpennie8013 indeed
Poor Stannis
You deserve a Netflix series. Period.
Wow, the writing and production on this ep are impeccable. Great work.
Erik Pukinskis yes the slides the music and timing were perfect. Quinn has come such a long way from when he used to sit in front of the book shelf with that fuzzy camera and just ramble (although I absolutely love those) he’s made leaps and bounds since then. So proud.
I’d even go so far to think house Whent has children of the Forest blood too. Because they are rumored to be able to turn into bats and other creepy tales. Caitlyn has Whent blood, which is why I think all her Stark Children can Warg. I think it takes both parents having magical genes. Because it could be dulled through the generations.
Seems like the North forgot what they were supposed to remember. They need to marry Sansa to the NK to end the conflict. Afterall, Sansa always wanted to be a queen. Now she can be the Ice Queen.
to be his queen and have his babies
cersi will be the ice queen
Have white haired babies
Lol
Taena Blackfyre this is where we can tie-in Loki and the Frost Giants from Marvel (that scene of Odin picking up Loki as a blue baby comes to mind)
Do you think bran the builder built stormsend to defend against the deep ones, like how winterfell/wall was built to fight the white walkers
interesting idea =)
"it was built by Durran Godsgrief, the first Storm King during the Dawn Age, who declared a war against the sea god and the goddess of the wind after they killed his family and guests, ruining his wedding to their daughter, Elenei."
That sea god sounds a lot like the drowned god, and the goddess of the wind sounds a lot like the storm god, so the deep ones are in there somewhere for sure
@@christopherneil8702 Why are you telling me this?
Man, I really want the books to finish so we can get more of this juicy ASOIAF content, something tells me the new shows just wont be that good to warrant videos of this quality
I think there was definitely a pact. I also think they brought the NQ NK baby home to winterfell. And there is definitely something about the old kings in the crypts. It never made sense to me that Ned is so worried their spirits will get out and roam the castle. And it’s said the iron swords are put on their laps to keep the vengeful spirits in their tomb. Why are they vengeful and why would Ned worry about his own ancestors roaming the castle. Unless he has some evil ancestors. So Starks having some others as ancestors makes a lot of sense. The always have to have a stark at winterfell I can’t figure out but it must tie in with this. Also the name, Winterfell, and Winter is coming. I think Winter is another name for the others and at some point one or some of them fell, at the Starks home and after the fighting they made a pact or agreement. Ok so others are gonna stay in the lands of always winter but what’s the Starks end of the bargain? Maybe they were supposed to give one of the babies of NK,NQ or some baby to the others. But they didn’t. So they know sooner or later, “ Winter Is Coming”. They’re coming for revenge because they didn’t get, “The Prince that Was Promised”. Makes sense to me. What do you think Quinn?.
I think I saw elsewhere that the Nights King was a bastard Stark named Jon Snow and that's why when he interacted with the Wildlings they thought his name was ominous.
Syd Wetzel
Yes. Might also explain why the white walkers seem so interested in our Jon.
The show is different from the books. The White Walkers are not The Others. The Others are not mentioned to be corpses, but beautiful beings.
@@Rickuo Well, it's not like the White Walkers look like actual corpses either. The show did make that distinction...all the way up to S8E3 ofc...
YES exactly what I was thinking, Why so ominous!
I still like the idea that the 13th Lord Commander was also the Last Hero. We don't know either's name, the last hero had 12 companions that died which kinda fits with the Night"s King being the 13th LC, could he have ended the war for the dawn with a marriage pact? IDK but the idea fits well with the flawed characters of ASOIAF
the war ended before the existence of Night's watch. Night's watch was created when the wall was built after the war to keep the Others out
Cold hands, in the book, might be one of those companions. It’s hinted he may be thousands of years old...
The idea that the Starks have the blood of the others is both incredible and terrifying... maybe the Nights Kings sacrifice was part of the pact made w the Others during the Long Night? Very interesting stuff I hope we learn more about it soon
The Others are the result of experimentation with ice, just like the Valyrians were the result of experimentation with fire.
The Old Empire of the Dawn were masters at merging man and beast to create all sorts of things.
The wall is probably a giant melding of Others with wyverns/sea-serpents to create an ice dragon(s) which lies dormant.
Dany created her dragons in a giant fire so.....
Omg love ittttttttttt
Man. The books sound creepy as shit. I like it tho. It works because majority of people are just normal people. In stories like Harry Potter everybody is or can be strong so it’s like whatever. Here? It sends chills down my spine. I never had the ability to read long books. Even manga doesn’t work for me. I need sound. I need movement. I like to watch a “lively” story. It’s annoying but no matter how good a story is a lose the ability to continue.
Channels like yours are a God send. For that, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. You rock dude!
Limit your screentime and you will be able to read books
Remember, this asoiaf is a chessboard, a game of cyvasse. A fire priestess on one side, in service to Rhllor, means there has to be an ice priestess, in service to the great other. Fire dragons on one side, means there have to be ice dragons.
Maybe the Nights King used magic or skinchanged a wildling woman, making her into a wight or other revenant. The Nights King story parallels the story of the Bloodstone Emperor.
Ma.
Interesting... Perhaps knowledge of the mixing of Stark and Others blood is what led Rhaegar to impregnate Lyanna? To create a child with blood of ice and fire that will fulfill the the prophecies.
Remember too, there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. When they leave Winterfell, the Walkers begin to move South. Because they're Starks too?
The walkers were active while the starks were still in winterfell. Ned beheaded Gared at the beginning, so it seems the white walkers were active even before that, how much longer, who knows..
There probably also has to to be a Stark at the Wall. So when Benjen goes missing... there’s no pure Stark at the Wall
I think the Night's Queen was a fire priestess like Mel who to perform a task that she couldn't with fire magic alone somehow channeled ice magic and was able to do so and it transformed her into the icy being she became. Maybe Mel will have to do the same to resurrect Jon since he is the Song of Ice and Fire.
Dude your good at telling scawy stories. Best I can do is “one time I opened the fridge, and there wasn’t any sriracha sauce.”
Oh yes. Half an hour long video from IOIAF. Pure bliss.
" I am the horn that wakes the sleepers" ..i hope Jon blows the horn we were so slightly introduced to...and it wakes the Stark Kings of Old to fight along side of Jon and Danny.
The Others were waiting for Jon Snow, a joining of Ice and Fire.
Could it be that "Jon Snow" is the unspoken name of the night's king.
Jon Snow
J'on Snow
I am Snow.
The Night's King or the Night King? The lord commander who loved a white Walker woman or the first white walker?
@@StarlasAiko the Night's King, obviously.
Alton Howard Snow is the last name of northern bastards. Other regions have other names for bastards, like Sand is the Bastard name in Dorne.
Kilravok Alton Howard its also noteworthy that bastard surnames (Sand,Snow,Rivers etc) are given to children of NOBLE birth, not just any bastard born in a region. So IF say the Nights King was named Jon Snow, it would line up with the theory of him being a Stark. 🤔
Fantastic journey into the history and lore of the first Night’s King and his Ice Queen. Very well done with your voice changing to tell the story from a third person prospective to a first person recounting the tale that gave it much more authenticity when told. I love these Podcasts from you and am making my way through them all. Keep up the integrity of these tales as they must demand a lot of research on your part as well as your spot on speculations that tie in so well to the lore. Excellent material to ponder. Thank you for your creativity and your hard work. I believe it’s time for me to join in on Patreon to help you continue this awesome content 😍👍
This is my absolute favorite video of yours. Your narration and the delving into the lore is just fascinating. Love it!
I heard once that everything after “mayhaps” is a lie as it is the king of the crossing game the freys play. If you catch the mayhaps then you become king of the crossing.
I think it's worth mentioning that in the books, all the Starks who have the distinctive Stark look have grey eyes. That's not a normal eye colour. There's several eye colours in the show that humans have which aren't seen in our world. Purple, for Valyrians, which seems to either be something they did with their magic over the generations to make their appearance something they viewed as superior to the rest of the world, red, seen in greenseers and servants of Rhollor, glowing blue, seen in Others, but also in the dead humans they control. So grey, where does that come from? Could breeding with others have once given the Starks glowing blue eyes like the Others? Like the dead ones who follow them? And through thousands of years of diluting this blood more and more with humans, could that have caused the light and colour to fade? It's suggested that the glowing blue isn't actually something that's part of the physical eye, as wights without eyes have the glow anyway (Thistle gouged her own out before being raised), so perhaps the Others really have grey eyes, but it's just their magic which causes them to glow blue. Perhaps the Stark eyes are merely eyes of the Others that no longer have as much magic within.
Well, definitely taking Lilith off the list of potential baby names
This is very interesting. But I actually do not see Jon as being the Song of Ice and Fire because it would make the story be about him and it is not, as Martin said. I actually see a lot of Pagan aspects in the whole story. And if you take a look at the Natives wheel of year, you can see that there is a time of the Nights King. It is the Winter. And Martins story is a story about balance and imbalance. And what is causes. Also: Dawn will play a part in the story, so do the Daynes in some way. We do have another historical legend of how the Long Night 1.0 happened. Amethyst Empress and Bloodstone Emperor. There IS a secret about the Starks, but DANY also has a part in the story. Not only Jon. Perhaps Dany IS a Stark herself, who knows... But whatever the parentage riddles are, Daynes are involved.
I have long wondered about House Dayne and Dawn and any role they have in this saga. The sword Dawn is legendary ..as well as the Sword of the Morning ..Dawn has similar properties of Valeryian steel but is made from something beyond this world... Milk glass in appearance (reminds of the description of the WW ice weapons and armour shifting colors in the moonlight) and gives its bearer an advantage over opponents , not to mention the Sword of the Morning already has mad kills as only the worthiest of House Dayne earn the right to wield it )...House Dayne is an ancient house in Dorne (the only region not conquered by Targaryens) ..Dyanna Dayne married King Maekar Targaryen merging their bloodline.. And at the TOJ not only was Jon born but the Sword of the Morning was killed and so Dawn waits ...it makes me wonder ...
@@teresabolling97 There are theories saying that Dawn was the original Lightbringer and the original AA was a Dayne and I believe in these theories!
I think this is my favorite ASOIAF theory, great stuff. If the baby looked human, a Stark totally would have taken him home.
Honestly at this point I repeat you videos not only because they are good, but because your voice is amazing.
I figured the stark skinchanging abilities derived from garth greenhand, by way of rose of blue lake (now red lake) and brandon of the bloody blade. Rose was said to be able to skinchange into a crane.
I find the line "the Nights King was only a man by the light of day." Could this possibly mean that this is a Jekyll and Hyde situation. Where he looks normal during the day but then changes at night? Or perhaps he is a manifestation of dreams and warging like Bran can do.
Another great video Q, I love how deep you delve into it all. Just when I think there can't possibly be another angle you haven't thought of, you surprise me again! Cant wait for the next upload 🤗. I adored that poem at the end, that was a touching point of view 😢
I've been playing this every night for the last week or two to help me sleep. Such a peaceful telling of an ominous story. Keep it up, Quinn.
Also why are those children of the Forrest trapped beyond the wall? Is their two factions of them and they’re the evil ones and the good ones are on the God Eye?
They lived in those underground tunnels beneath weirwoods. Those tunnels spread out really far down and across, maybe even towards the South of Westeros. Some of those Children of the Forest were enthroned in the roots like Blood Raven was.
THEY ARE COMING FOR JON AND DANNYS BABY THEY NEED A NEW ICE KING I BET YOU IM RIGHT
This was excellent! Thank you for all the time and effort you put in.
I'm Loving The Books and It's in Big Part because of These Talks, Returning to The True Lore, The Book Lore ^_^ Fark your Channel is sooo Good :-)
"The North Remembers" "There Must Always be a Stark in Winterfell"
There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. The entombed Starks are denying guest right. This is part of the arrangement or treaty made at the building of the Wall. Who is denied guest right? The living, the dead, the Others, the Children, the Wildlings? Who? And why?
BONESAW IS READY
Yeah but crypts are dark and creepy anyways. Would Osha know about the crypts and any legends surrounding them or care? Maybe the Wildlings know better than to go into creepy holes in the ground. Hodor only resisted going in the crypts one time. There's definitely something else going on.
Andrew W Whittaker i think Hodor was afraid that time b/c of the "crow" , "that tricksy bird" that was coming to bran...which was really the nights king and he was just down in the crypts
Issa Legend is down with the program.
BONESAW IS READY wow, thats interesting..also since no one knows anything about Bran the Breaker
I think there is something about weirwood roots that creates these caverns and caves. Maybe the caves are weirwood roots and the Starks buried at the tip of the roots go deeper underground at such a slow rate it's imperceptible.
Holy crap. No matter how perverse you are, you'll never reach the level of the Night's King who fell in love with an ice zombie.
Love the giant quote at the end ! Beautifully done. Great channel. I just subbed. Amazing insights. Thankyou
The combination of your voice and these great artworks is just phenomenal. love your work..
you are simply the best! My favorite youtube channel
The Others take you! Dragon horns, Joramun's horn (giant's horn?), maybe horns could be crafted to control the wights, the others, the Children?
Andrew W Whittaker I think the horn of Joramun is more of a metaphor
Freddy Kruger And dragon horns? Those seem to be nonmetaphorical.
One of those WONDERFUL touches that makes this world so real is this conflict between mysticism (Old Nan, family stories, religions like Lord of Light and the Weirwoods) and reason (the maesters, the lords and ladies and kings doing power and money moves, and religions like the Seven, where the gods are archetypes of Right Life and How To Be Good and sort of nonmagical.
I am really enjoying your posts! I just discovered these as I am rereading the books; such perfect companions
19:18 I agree, GRRM would make a great horror author. In fact he is an award winning horror author already, and has been for decades. He won a Bram Stoker award for his story 'The Pear-Shaped Man' and his scifi/horror 'Sandkings' which took both a Nebula and a Hugo. He is a rare breed of author, who has award winning works across three major genres: scifi, fantasy and horror. Though to hear GRRM tell it, "it's all furniture," and ultimately his stories are stories. That said, when George was young he used to sell his "monster stories" to his friends, primarily funding his candy habit. This was working out great until his mother had put a stop to his publication venture when she had complaints from other parents that their children were having nightmares after reading his stories. I suggest reading Dreamsongs, the various sections of the book are prefaced with retrospective essays that give insight into his writing career, especially dealing with themes. Even better though, the audiobook version has the essays read by GRRM, which makes it far more conversational, which doesn't jump out of the pages quite as much.
Great theory-craft vid! Though I think you are right, potentially nothing will ever be fully revealed. But that is half the fun right? :3 I want to see more explained about the pact in TWOW, and I always kinda wondered if the vision Bran has of the white haired woman sacrificing a person in front of the weirwood maybe was related to all that too. If not, then I would at least hope he does some more diving into the past and we get to glean a little more about the history of the Starks and the Others, which are totally intertwined.
Man,love your narration and your outlook on George's literature.Have you written a story or planning in working on a book i would buy it just for style and the feel i get of the books you say you like.
Very good video and brillant theory! Real adds more to the already rich lore of ASOIAF, keep up the great work man.
That poem at the end, and your reading of it were both excellent.
When you say things like GRRM WOULD be a brilliant horror writer, it saddens me deaply. He IS a brilliant horror writer. Nightflyers, The House of the Worm, The Pear Shaped Man, Fevre Dream, The Exit to San Breta, etc. If you're a big horror fan and a big GRRM fan, you should realy look them up.
Wish some of them could be made into movies.
Also The Skin Trade :)
@@nostalgicbliss5547 Nightflyers will be, I heard.
Nightflyers is a show on Sci fy. The first season was real good. Usually find Sci fy channel corny but that show is good waiting for season 2
Up!
Perhaps this fabled Corpse Queen is the source of the Others, the original entity that birthed them into creation, you never know... great content as always man.
Perhaps she is the Great Other?
You have the best videos on this story out there. Please keep up the amazing content... even though the winds of winter wont come till 2022
I really enjoy your thought process and narration....I subbed....keep em coming 👍
I think it was the interbreeding of a stark and targaryen that has broken a pact/created some fear and brought them back.
Yes, this. First Lyanna and Rhaegar and now Danny and Jon. History repeating itself.
I love the creepy lore stuff of Martin, way more than the front stage characters and events.
The last giant part was amazeballs! Loved the video!
I'm so glad I decided to watch Game of Thrones before the final season premiered and watched these videos about the show, but importantly about the books l sadly haven't read. You, Lucifer Means Lightbringer, Grey Area, and In Deep Geek. Y'all have kept me sane during this difficult times
Dude.. Your voice is sooooooottthhhinnngggg af.
Yes! I definitely listen to these intently while awake, but I also put on a playlist on loop with low volume to sleep.
@@originalsamshu1 wow I admire you, Quinn's stories are normally way to creepy for me to fall asleep to. I get nightmares
Catelyn makes a remark about about The starks were made for the cold
I really like this theory especially when you think back to the book saying "The Starks are built for the cold" or something like that, I cannot remember the quote exactly.
Seen theories like this elsewhere. But this seems more fleshed out. Enjoyed this a lot more. Great work!
Always love your theories. I think this subject is actually one of the most important and overlooked in ASOIAF
It can easily be the origin of the others, or at least can explain what their purpose is. I doubt the show will explore this at all, but I really hope that one of the prequels will or maybe GRRM gives us more about it in the books to come
Awesome video. Your voice to so perfect for this. Wish I could support you. I'm just about to crack open the dune series. It was between that and a wheel of time.
Gia Alvarado haven't read dune but wheel of Time is really good
Dune is the better choice IMO. The Wheel of Time starts out great but after a while it becomes very boring and monotonous. Those 14 books could’ve easily been reduced to 10 by taking out a lot of unnecessary filler.
You gotta read W.O.T it is flawless and Robert Jordan's characters could step off the page.
@@shananika I totally agree with you. I looked forward to the last book because--it was the last book! However, I only made it halfway through and kicked it to the curb. It'll be there when I get in the WOT mood.
Wheel of time, I've read both go with wot
Just discovered this page and this is the best Game of Thrones companion content out there
I’m reading through again. Love these vids Quinn
The thing that came at night sounds like it could be a reference to Stephens Kings IT, all 4 boys saw something different, possibly what they feared the most, and it had the power to drive its victims insane and its said to have returned after a period of time, a reference to the cycle
With all the talk of the Starks, I frankly wonder more about the Karstarks. What relation do they have to the Starks? What is the prefix Kar-? Are the Starks and Karstarks a seperate family or related somehow indirectly through bastard children for example? Did the Karstarks have any connection to the pact we're assuming was made?
Matt Ball
I believe they're a cadet branch of House Stark. They're called Karstarks because their keep is at Karhold.
lee Roberts I have read the books and am currently rereading them. I figured it was obvious my questions were implying I think theres more to the Karstark family than the books currently impliy. Or is the comment section for the channel "Ideas of Ice and Fire" the wrong place to voice that opinion?
Alan Pennie And I wonder what significance all of that holds. Why is there a cadet branch to the stark family? As far as Im aware, there aren't any KarLannisters, KarBaratheons or something similar. There are the Blackfires, but they were bastards right? Considering most of Westeros looks down on bastards, and hold a special naming system for bastards based on the place of birth, I have a hard time imagining the Karstarks are a bastard line of the Starks
Matt Ball the reason the Karstarks exist is because they are a cadet branch started when Karlon Stark was given Karhold. There was another cadet branch from House Stark called house Greystark who owned the lands currently holded by the Manderlys, but they were wiped out when they rebelled against House Stark.
they are named karStark because they are decents of Karl stark the sun of the North. who was given the Karhold as a reward for bravery
Great video man!! Thanks!
Superb. Nice one!