Building CEIBA: The Mangrove Years
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2020
- SAILCARGO INCs. short film "Building CEIBA: The Mangrove Years"
This is a summary of our story so far, from building the shipyard to shipbuilding. The film follows the progress made by SAILCARGO INC. a young organisation emerging from the mangroves of Costa Rica, with the bold aim to change how the world goes about international shipping.
WEBSITE www.sailcargo.org
FACEBOOK / sailcargo
INSTAGRAM / sailcargo
NEWSLETTER eepurl.com/cAhYor
We are in the construction phase of building a 150', wooden, three-masted square topsail schooner here in Costa Rica to sail sustainably sourced and ethically produced CARGO along the Pacific Coast of the Americas using sail and a 100% Electric Engine.
All of our progress is funded by people like you investing in shares!
Learn more: www.sailcargo.org/investors
People who aren't pretending, but actually doing. Refreshing. Rooting for you
Yes we all are responsible!....that is the best legacy that we could impart to our future!
How much I’d love to watch every second filmed for this video. B roll and and all. I wouldn’t care if it took a month to watch it all. No matter how long these are I find myself yearning for more. If I was 20 years younger I’d be down there making myself useful doing something. Hell I’d mow the grass and be happy. ❤️
aah Dwayne thank you so much!! I'm personally a B-roll addict, I think the film guys go crazy listening to me whisper ''B ROLL'' at them all day in the office :D
Danielle
SAILCARGO INC. 😂b roll🤘🏻
@SAILCARGO INC please do not only general, but more specific episodes each week
Lots of love and respect for all the creu members, keep it safe and strong!!!
You guys are our encouragement a big one at that!...thanks!
"we needed a shipyard but not one with concrete" is such a subtle flex
You're channel should have soo meny more subs then u got this is hands down the best boat channel on RUclips
Gracias por tu aporte, deberian existir mas personas preocupadas por el ambiente y la economia sostenible con el ambiente.
This just barely touches on the enormous amount of thought, work and so forth already invested in this fantastic project.
Best wishes for great success....and more of them in the future.
From Israel.
This video is fantastic and what I've been hoping for all along. I LOVE your dream and your vision in carrying it out as well as the ability to organise such a massive undertaking. Fantastic work, I'm so looking forward to launch day! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you so so so much for these kind words!!
@@sailcargo they are richly deserved, you guys and girls are amazing!
Being an engineer at a shipyard that builds steel ships..I would LOVE to be there working on this project. Great work team. LOVE the videos..hope to see more. thank you for posting.
Fabulous - persevere and prosper.
Amazing !
Outstanding project. I love your office what a wonderful place to work.
Thanks, Bob. We certainly are lucky to have such a beautiful space to create
This is fantastic ... I have been mastering Oceangoing vessels and circumnavigating this globe so many times ... wish I was 30 years younger to sail this beauty
Inspiring!
Very impressive
Beautiful work Danielle, Lynx and yardies! Sending love from Nunavik.
Music: Instrumental version "The Bonny Ship the Diamond"
Reels: "Ships are sailing" played on fiddle; Congress Reel
Song: "Paddy West"
I applaud everything you guys are doing. I know some things cannot be grown in certain places, like coffee, however if people would focus on getting the food they eat and goods they use as locally as possible this would reduce the shipping load tremendously. Once again, not downing anything you are doing. Keep up the great work! I found you guys through Acorn to Arabella and glad I did.
We couldn't agree more! Some things are worth the effort of transporting
@@sailcargo I hope to purchase some of that organic coffee you are going to ship some day haha
Well thank you very much very informative hope your doing well and keep up this incredible pace😉
Great video work..
There is nothing about this project that I don't love! People around the world talk about how they want to make changes to be able to try save the planet but do nothing about it!!. You guy's and girl's are nothing but amazing individuals who have come together for the good of not only a small community but a whole nation, Now that is amazing and the world should be watching your channel and somehow be getting involved!!!.
As a group of complete strangers getting together and doing the work YOU ARE SHOWING the rest of the world that anything can be achieved through patience and perseverance and nothing more than a will to succeed, for this alone I have the utmost respect and admiration for ALL OF YOU and wish you all the luck in the world!, personally I cannot wait to see you again make the sailing and distribution of goods around the world a safer and more sustainable way for everyone!.
Now that said I know that you are all heavily involved in also teaching new trades etc to the community that you are in, whether it be teaching fishermen how to repair or build their own boats or how to learn blacksmithing skills but I have to ask once your flagship boat is done .
1, what's the plan for building more ,will the boat be the first of many of this size and style?
2, will you be planning on growing and becoming an environmental leader in the future of goods transportation around the world showing and proving that it can be achieved without damaging the sea's?.
3, is the plan to stay within an area for the shipping of goods just from this island or will you be trying to reach further afield and say set up shop in other less wealthy countries thus showing that they can also help achieve a success story of there own?.
I've always had a fondness for wooden boats of all sizes and styles and think proper sailing as it once was is the way forward, that said I've never ever sailed let alone own a boat etc, now that being said my wife has always said that she wishes that the transport on land should be by horse and carriage if need be, she would love to be living in a place where this is possible but modern society will never let her dream come true!.
If there was one thing that I could hope for that would be simple I'd wish to see the build process more often by you putting regular video's out for people like me to watch say weekly or fortnightly that's all, but I know that you have your hands full already with everything you are doing to make sure the build continues successfully!!!.
Congratulations to every single man, woman, child and animal that is involved one way or another in the whole project YOUR ALL AN INSPIRATION TO THE REST OF THE WORLD!!!😇👍👍👍🇬🇧🧭⛵
Awesome work guys, I will follow all the way.
This is so beautiful and inspiring.
You all are awesome!
beautiful job!
Damn , this film made me wish I could have been there from the beginning, you have all done wonders, I wish you all the best in the building this fanastic sailing ship. May I get my arse there if only for a month to help with the decking or super structure. Karl W
At least you're able to be part of it in a way! We're working hard at making more videos like this, so more people can feel connected to Ceiba's story...
Fantastic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Food Forest Permaculture!! So happy to have your inspiring enthusiasm on our side!! I just checked out your channel, and noticed that you're in B.C. :) I suppose you know that we'll be sailing goods from Costa Rica right up to where you are... I'm excited about it! Did you also know that, through our non-profit shipyard association, AstilleroVerde (www.astilleroverde.org) we have a growing treeplanting program? In fact, next Thursday (June 11th, 2020) we will launch our first crowdfunding campaign for this treeplanting program! We're a 501(c)3, which means that your donations will be tax-deductible (well, at least for folks in the states!). It would be amazing if you would help us by sharing our posts / video next week when we launch!
You can email me at info@astilleroverde.org + info@sailcargo.org to learn more.
Thanks in advance for support!
Danielle Doggett
Vice President
ASTILLEROVERDE
@@sailcargo Exciting news . Yes for sure will help out any way we can .The launch of your tree planting program sounds exciting Look forward to the launch of your Schooner and coming to Vancouver Island ? . My Great Grand Daddy was Captain Ned Payne . We love sailing ships . Noticed you went to Haida Gwaii . Love the video and can put it on my play list . Being an earthling and i don t live in the states i can give some cash to help your endeavors and no 501 C 3 needed . LOLOLlolol. Will send e mail soon Much love and respect Howie
@@FoodForestPermaculture Hey Howie, wow so nice to receive such a positive response - and so quickly!! Thanks so much for helping us plant trees! Our crowdfunding campaign is going to launch next Thursday, we're working on making a really beautiful video. We love forests and promoting the regenerative nature of them, and using wood in a responsible way. So much better than mining and using petrochemicals to build our homes...
( : . . . Important , Thoughtful , Inspiring , Great Video Production Values . . . : )
High ideals, totally unattainable. But I like the way you think.
wonderful project, but can it be built "by the dozen" ??? with wood I think it cannot, but what about build sail cargo ship with metal?? it can be made faster, lighter and can be totally recycled ...
The cost of sustainability is only "too great" when one is concerned with immediate profit, otherwise it is the only viable option. You guys are amazing!
Thank you, Ethan... you said it!!
The mind boggles. Do you have auxiliary power, can you carry refrigerated goods, how do you load and unload cargo, how do you get that boat to the water? I’m sure you have a handle on it. The scope of your work is awesome.
Hi there! To learn more, please email me at info@sailcargo.org :) As we're funded by investors, I'm used to answering these questions with detail. I don't have *all* the answers, but I'm happy to share what we do know. Hope to hear from you!
Best,
Danielle
God Bless your endeavour, truly Awe Inspiring, I wish you every success in your endeavour, and hopefully you poke a few dedicated capitalists in the eye along the way.
Unfortunately projects like this depend on Capitalists,who do you think can afford these coffees in the US the staff on minimum wage at wallmart or the stars of hollywood and bankers in NYC.
I don't see a keel on this sailboat. I was thinking it would have a 4-6ft min tall vertical full length of the waterline keel. Without a good tall vertical keel & ballast this small ship will roll over in rough seas.
I see the big keel in the initial design.
This is an awesome project. I follow Tres Hombres, awesome people. But calling it Carbon free is a stretch, maybe if you didn't have batteries on board. Even Lithium Ion has Carbon. But anyhow I love the project and truly hope more people follow suit.
Oh dear! Carrying cargo in wooden ships was a pain in the ass! Even though they had engine, and blubber tanks that could be used for ballast, it was trouble all the time!
A more concise statement would be, while carrying cargo by wooden sailboats was done successfully in the past, it was done with labor conditions that have long since been outlawed. Compatible ports and cargo are also a challenge. There are certainly underserved ports that want such a service, they almost all are less developed and want to trade with developed economies that have high regulatory barriers.
@@skyak4493 Have not sailed cargo, but have tried carrying cargo in wooden motorpowered vessels. We also had sails, they were primarily to reduce rolling. I see an awful lot of extra work in a wooden sailing vessel. Solid ballast, minor leaks and "soft" hull. A steel hull and water ballast, no leaks seems so much easier.
Cool beans
Thanks, I'm so glad someone is already doing this, i've dreamed about something like this for quite a few years. While emissions from shipping are dangerous, i think the most harm comes from underwater propellers, that modify marine environment in such drastic way, considering that a lot of sea life is using sound for navigation? communication and feeding.
Large steel autonomous sailing freighters. It would take a lot longer to ship something, but the price would come way down, giving you an advantage.
What is the song played at 17:20? This is what I dream of. It hurts me working for a company comprised of so many chemicals and waste. I need to find a way onto a project like this that would be able to support my family financially as well.
Props for trying...we need a LOT MIRWD
so am i understanding this correct? you want to move green sustainable freight with your sailing vessel? is there that much "green" freight? or is it to help move some freight for locals at a cheaper cost?
Love your goodwill unlike those building submarines in the mangroves
Hey, @SAILCARGO INC., do you have plans to build only Ceiba? Or do you plant to hopefully expand your fleet? And are you considering purchasing old Tall ships and repurposing them as cargo ships? I could see a lot of old ships being reused in such a way.
Excellent idea. This would permit many more boats to usefully sail for the planet
How about just retrofit modern cargo ships with masts and sails. That would be a sight.
Great work, we do need zero emission ships.
Really?
I live in Hawaii. Here in the Pacific we have a cargo sailboat named Kwai that goes to all the little islands that are inbetween the tropic of cancer & capricorn mostly. These islands are populated with mostly indigenous poor natives, that basicly need the bare essentials, like rice, beans, spices, basic tropical clothing, (shorts, t-shirts, flip flops & lava lavas). They can even get away with living in uv durable tents. They need screens & mosquitoe nets. Basic diving gear & spear guns. Fishing gear & material to make nets. Solar panels, inverters, & marine batteries, for lighting at night. Rain encatchment system, with water tanks. Perhaps the U.N. or religious organizations could donate money to build more simple 80-120ft long cargo sailing ships. The only problem with the U.N. & church, they want them to convert to their religion, & the U.N. wants to send them to school to indoctrinate them so they can become obedient tax paying wage slaves. Most of these little islands of indigenous people are free from all this, maybe it's best to leave them aline, but the oceans no linger have enough food to supply enough food & they become malnourished & die. We need to find places that are plentiful with large trees & jungle & harvest thd trees for lumber & just learn to build our own sailing cargo boats, so supply these small islands around the world in need. There is a video of a man who built a sailboat 90% out of bamboo. Bamboo can be grown in many different sizes & is the fastest growing tree/grass, & can be used to build anykind of shelter, boats & furniture. Hemp is also a fast growing crop for rope & clothing, & is far better than cotton, & much more durable.
Thank you for your great ideas and sharing, especially about bamboos, which get used a lot in Asia.
Great video! I am an absolute supporter of your principles and motivation. I hope some day that you will be able to take advantage of a carbon tax/market.
That being said, ocean shipping is already the lowest carbon/ton*km so it will be a tough market... even in the carbon-offset market.
Are there plans for alternative auxiliary propulsion?
A simple diesel would provide safety but would (obviously) be against the carbon reduction mission...
A lithium battery is (obviously) way out of budget and way too immature of tech for this scale of project...
Fuel cell? Possibly running on process gas generated from the coffee farms, again very immature tech...
Diesel hybrid with renewable options for generation...
I would love to know where you are at with these decisions!
When I was a child in Newfoundland I remember large fishing boats being built like this growing up. I ques that's why I've always had an interest in wooden boat building.
BTW With that kind of operation, there is no reason why you cannot build a fleet of boats to sail the seas and move cargo. I hope you decide to do that in the future.
Only in Canada, will you see large industrial logging companies destroy the land that they reap their crops from, just like the fishing industry down east in Canada. Where they blamed the inshore fish men of the cod fishing crisis, which was a lack of cod back in the late 60's and 70's early 80's . Meanwhile, it was the large fishing trawlers that would damage the fishing grounds, with their drag nets. This process would completely scrape the bottom of the sea bed and destroy the fishing grounds, where cod and other sea life could no longer re-produce. Yet, the government blamed the inshore fisher men. Then forced the resettle program on the communities and then later implemented the fishing moratorium that forced thousands and thousands of Newfoundlander's to leave their love of fishing then have no choice but to move away from their communities forever. Generations of people lives were destroyed, all because of greed for the rich men, these rich men paid off corrupt politicians, the same thing is happening with the logging processes in BC. This sort of crap just turns my stomach and rightly so. So about the rant but I do love your mind set of going back to a better ways. Where your able to help the poor and the communities in your country get a chance to prosper and get out of poverty that has plague them for decades that is awesome vision.
how are you going to launch this beast?
Nice sentiments, but wood and sail were a failure 30 years ago. With the depletion of large trees, even more so.
Google "maersk flettner rotors" for the new age of wind assisted transport.
Wood is the only ‘renewable’ boat and ship building material. Iron, aluminum and fiberglass/plastics are not.
@@highwatercircutrider Yeah, thats the formulae mostly quoted, but wrong.
"Boatbuilding timber" is waaaay different than "trees" or "wood" and IT is NOT renewable. Sure, it will grow if given 40 or 50 years, but that never happens. Look at the trouble they had getting quality timber for this one, lonely project. It’s the same problem all over the world. Plywood would have been a far eco-friendlier solution, but you saw on this very video what timber harvesting for plywood is doing to the environment.
Steel and Aluminium ARE renewable. Go and visit any scrap metal merchant. Between 60% to 90% of steel and other ores are recycled, and there is NO shortage of raw materials for the next 100,000 years. Even the power used to refine them can be eco-friendly, as recent projects using "green" Hydrogen demonstrate.
The bottom line is that project this is not "blazing beacon" of the new, ecofriendly methods of transport. It’s a nostalgic attempt at reviving a long gone "old world" technology, that can never supply any meaningful solutions.
Just wait until the first legal case over a crewmember swept to his death in high seas while handling primitive rigging. That is what stopped the old clipper ships more than cargo price. Then, wait until they get the insurance quotes, and realise that they can never make enough money to cover the income from non-containerised, awkward, labour intensive cargo.
I admire the dream, but I know enough about the realities.
Great video. Please ditch the overly loud violin music, lol.
Wowo
Unless it has simple and modern propulsion system it is not going to be able to compete. The reason why there's no commercial sailships is because they require large crews and complicated.
Also wooden ships are rare because they rot. Unlike GRP hulls that survive almost anything (there's tons of GRP hulls from 60th and 70th our there).
you guys are doing a great job building a ship that massive, and i wish you luck in your endeavors. i would like to point out that i couldn't help notice that you are still using gasoline powered vehicles to transport logs and also to power your tools. if you are serious about doing things in an environmentally sustainable way, then where are the ox and horses and the hand tools to do this work? and you are using materials to burn so that you can do your metal foundry work. don't take this the wrong way as i do very much enjoy your videos and the herculean work that you have done to this point and keep it up. but it seems from what you say you have drawn a line in the sand and yet you have already crossed it. just my musings and again you guys need to be honored for the work that you have done and i am sure will do.
thank you!
correction, i was only a third of the way through the video when i see that you are using oxen in certain circumstances but i still feel that you have crossed that line. it's a double edged sword trying to make the best of the old ways while still using "modern technologies".
Environmentally sustainable yes but is it able to compete with massive steel ships ? I hope so.
There is always a niche in any industry. The lumberjacks shown in this video as example. This vessel cannot compete directly. However, there probably exists a demand for specialized transportation and goods. I used to know a 110' steel schooner with a nice sized cargo hold which would ship, say surfboard blanks to Tahiti, Koa wood to the U.S., and S. American Rosewood to Europe, Black Forest Cuckcoo clocks to the U.S. They weren't going to set the market on fire but they did okay and had fun doing it.
Well with the price of fuel skyrocketing, they just might have a shot lol
Given the location of the shipyard, the size of the ship, and the nearest navigable water, how the hell are you going to launch it?
Hello! The nearest navigable water is a channel about 300m (980ft) from where she is being built. The waters edge is about 22m (75ft) away, and at high tide we'll be able to launch her. :)
Danielle
@@sailcargo Didn't perceive the mud flats as being that close or the water depth at high tide being deep enough on the mud flats.
Glad someone thought to figure it out.
The music in this video was some of the nicest that has ever been used in any of the videos you've put out , please tell the editor to
keep doing this style of music as it is very pleasing to listen to and fitting with the project ;-) ( and stay away from the Techno style of rubbish - it doesn't work )
The only problem with this channel is that they don't produce more content! :)
Good luck on that - not enough fallen trees to create a fleet of these kind of ships to cover all the upcoming shipping. One way to make it happen _everyone must learn to live with less!
I'd be very happy to admit this ship is low carbon, but definitely not 0, not emission free. You drive around in trucks, use chainsaws, use metals mined in other countries. Burn lots of wood. The hardwood you use regenerates very slowly in nature.
I think the future is to use better and newer technologies that last longer, if energy is abundant, cheap and clean we can undo a lot of burning with it.
No need to claim perfection, you guys do good and that is good enough.
but, but . . . . .what about the souls of all of wailing those trees cut down to form your ship ribs?
This isn't about ship building it's about getting the wood to do it
viven en un lugar precioso,, pero tiene que DESTRUIRLO, cortando arboles para hacer un barco, obsoleto ,
A schooner? Blasphemy! Build yourself a fleet of carracks son, and be a sight to behold.
Great idea but it can only works if we(humams) started consuming less and actually use minimum amount of imported goods ! There is no way the cargo industry will slow down if every piece of plastic is imported from China and thats the way it is at the moment! So what will few wooden ships do
Next time please turn down the fiddle volume
I’m not “woke” or a liberal, neither do I believe that man has a whole lot to do with climate change. However, this is a pretty cool project, and enjoyable videos. I’m subscribing!
Your ship is green and thats all well and good. But to switch the worlds shipping fleet in the numbers required to do the job with ships like this would cause massive deforestation. This happened in the age of sail and the number of these ships that would be required now would be staggering. There wouldn't be a decent tree left within 300 miles of the coast anywhere in the world.
@Bill Heredia especially considering we have tree plantations now, so there isn’t much unnecessary deforestation for lumber
Is there not a better way? Sure sailing is good but it’s to slow and wind is unreliable. Companies aren’t going to switch to much slower ships just for the environment. It takes way to long to build a wooden ship compared to an steel one. Is there not some middle ground like solar or a wind propulsion system that uses turbines to spin a prop? I’m no expert on the subject but it seems to me like it takes way to long and is not even slightly economical to switch to wooden ships. Wooden ships are in almost every way inferior to a steel one with the exception of corrosion. I just feel like there is a better solution to the problem of the emissions created by shipping.
There are more modern ways of using the wind to help to reduce the fuel consumption of cargo vessels. The most realistic are Flettner-rotor systems. Wood is a great material for building ships because it likes to be in salt water.
I think the point of shipping cargo with a sailing vessel is to point out that transportation is not free. If something is "made in china" it was carried by a container ship. Not many people think about that.
Sailing, but also steam engines. Figure that with modern technologies, we could fuel a steam engine (the actual, mechanical part of a steam assembly) with just electricity, producing steam. Nobody is looking into this, despite steam being used in a lot of ships, even today.
Steam museums might be interested in experimenting with that idea. Here in Sydney, we have several steam vessels in use by a steam museum and they still train steam engineers.
Why not just cut out the whole steam part and just use an electric engine?
How is building a cargo ship out of timber sustainable. During the Golden age 1500,1600,1700 1800s vast forest around the world were decimated to build cargo vessels and ships of war... Ships in the 1500,1600,1700 normally would carry around 500 tonnes up to 2000 tons of cargo.
To build a sailing ship capable of carrying what today's ships carry is not ecologically sustainable. .
One thing that was not considered hundreds of years ago (this actually persists into today!) is the longterm effects of deforestation, and soil degradation and loss. Through our non-profit shipyard association, AstilleroVerde (www.astilleroverde.org) we have a growing treeplanting program. In fact, next Thursday (June 11th, 2020) we will launch our first crowdfunding campaign for this treeplanting program! We're a 501(c)3, which means that your donations will be tax-deductible. If you care about reforestation and preservation of old-growth forests, please donate next week! You can email me at info@astilleroverde.org + info@sailcargo.org to learn more.
DONATE NOW FOR TREEPLANTING IN COTSA RICA: www.paypal.com/donate/?token=sMWfrmd0hpouyEyJkh0MYUQ8B3msIJEhvhqT7ScFhUFsRJAtcW4hTq7EG6zORt48go7eU0&country.x=CR&locale.x=CR
Thanks in advance for support towards sustainable forestry practices!
Danielle Doggett
CEO
SAILCARGO INC.
Vice President
ASTILLEROVERDE
@@sailcargo You didn't answer the question. Replacing the current fleet of cargo ships would require 1000s of times more ships on the water to move the same product. This is a model of inefficiency.
@@sailcargo . Sure planting a few trees after the old growth you have just harvested makes you feel good and sounds sustainable to you. It's not.The 50+ year old tree you have cut down to build a wooden boat is counter procurative. And really goes against everything you are trying to accomplish.. it would have been easier to build a steel or aluminum vessel. Instead of a cargo vessel. It should be a research vessel..
What is the tonnage loaded and empty.. I expect less than 10 tonnes loaded. 15 tonnes if that max.
I hate to be a downer because the cause is good, but this is not a solution for the growing shipping industry. Building wooden boats at the scale needed for modern industry would deforest huge areas of all the larger trees. If you could even get them to do the logging in a sustainable manner.
The capacity of a ship like this is a tiny fraction of modern cargo ships, and it must be loaded manually making it uneconomical to operate. It must accept sea containers by crane to be comparable.
The safety of such a boat is less than a modern double hull ship with compartments.
The speed of this ship will be less, and dependent on the wind. You could easily get stuck for weeks on some routes.
To truly make a change, perhaps something more inline with modern methods would be better. It may not get all the way to your goals, but at least you might be able to make it attractive enough that some in industry might do it. Something like an electric cargo ship of steel, with a huge panel array on a hinged door covered the deck, or otherwise that retract out of the way for loading by crane. Yes a lot of energy went into the steel and panel manufacturing, but just one time.
I don't see how using ship design from 100 years ago is going to accomplish much on a global scale. It is not going to convince many people to change. What you are doing isn't very new, we did it 100 years ago and abandon it. Now we have more information about the impact and cost of the way we do things and can improve, but this is trying to stop a train by putting a coin on the track.
On a personal level though I am sure it is good to not be contributing to the problems in what ever way you can, and this will have a niche that it can. It is an interesting project and regardless of the goals will be an amazing ship and bring a sense of fulfillment to a lot of people.
Thanks for the entertaining video, and best wishes for your project.
Cool project, but you could cut your emissions by not drinking coffee and hauling exotic foods from the other side of the planet just as well.
Cutting down and growing new trees Consumes carbon from the atmosphere is long as its not burnt.
😊
Skip the progressive narrator 👍
Don’t young women have anything better to do
Sorry to ruin your day but the climate will change whether people are involved or not.
So. We can just carry on being stupid?
@@984francis Why do you assume humans being stupid has anything to do with what nature does?
@@Josef_R the decades of scientific evidence backing up anthropogenic climate change, probably