They should check the brasilian channel "vertente geek". The do an awesome job in editing. Its also a RPG channel, but I dont know if u guys like reading subtittles
Try using Schrodinger's Gun (or railSCHROding) instead. Basically, if you didn't state otherwise, you can make the world do whatever it wants. Did you want them to explore the catacombs of the city they just left? While they leave they might come across some ruins that happen to have the exact layout of those catacombs you made. Schrodinger's gun is a play on Chekhov's gun and Schrodinger's cat, in case you're curious.
This works very well, unless the world you play in is meticously detailed (the virtue and bane of 'The Dark Eye'). But on a lower level it still does the trick. If the adventurers refuse to talk to Hendrik the Bard about the Tome of Bloody Evisceration in the Lair of the Fairy-Lich-King, but instead they want to know about the wherabouts of the area from Burd the Barkeeper, he magically has the same knowledge about Tome and Lair... The mage they need to find in the village they didn't pass, because they wanted to hunt goblins in the woods instead might also travel along with the gypsie-group just camping in the woods near their resting place...
plan characters rather than events. make a google doc of places and the people those places inhabit. their motivations, who they worship, etc. NEVER plan how an event will unfold. present it to the party and let them mold it.
It can be very worthwhile to plan out the most likely outcomes and the immediate consequences. Then you won't get stumped and most of the time, when you know the group a bit more, you'll know how they decide anyway. But what do I know? I've been accused of railroading just because most characters in the players vicinity where arseholes and where using them for their plans (mind you! this was not D&D but rather the World of Darkness)
Thanks for posting this! I'm currently writing my first original campaign (with some inspiration taken from Storm King's Thunder) and railroading is what I'm most afraid of. These tips definitely help, especially the ones about building open problems and using the illusion of choice :)
Use a technique called "Keyframing" when writing quests or events. Scribble out some neat things you want to happen and then shoehorn them together. Also, not every NPC or monster will fight to the death. If an intelligent baddie gets away from a fight early in the campaign, consider having it return, but stronger and with a grudge at the worst possible time. Suddenly, a boring NPC to kill became a nice little side-quest the group didn't even know about.
I've watched a few of your videos so far, and I have to admit I'm very impressed, namely because of the mailbag of holding topic at the end of your episodes. At its core, D&D is a cooperative storytelling game, and the inclusion of a discussion section featuring the comments of viewers is a brilliant way to uphold this core even when just discussing the game. In addition, intentionally or not, your videos often include many perspectives that make me feel intrigued when watching videos as opposed to driven away due to the circumstances of my gaming group and play style, which can be very varied between people. Thanks for some brilliant thinking, from both the creators and the viewers. I'll be watching as well ^^ Oh, almost forgot to add, love the books in the back. Some of my favorite stories.
This might be an unpopular suggestion, but we actually have never used XP at all. Our parties level up whenever they earn it, whether that be after a difficult boss fight or at the end of a quest or story arc. That way, they stay at exactly the level the DM wants, they are never over- or under-powered, and nobody has to worry about calculating XP.
If it's the fast levelling that's preventing them enjoying the game, then milestone levelling is a good answer. Personally, though, I've always found the RAW XP system painfully slow...
One thing people sometimes forget is to either divide experience by the number of people in the encounter. (I.e. If an encounter is worth 1,000xp but there are 5 people in the group, the labor is divided and the encounter is only worth 200xp apiece.) Experience values are also only ceterus paribus RECOMMENDATIONS and don't take into account the details of a situation. for example, in a recent level 1 Pathfinder campaign, one of our PCs mercy-killed a high-level dragonkin as part of the plot. The dragonkin was willing and in fact ASKED for death and technically the PC killed him, but it still wasn't a battle. However, the experience was still emotionally taxing and was therefore still worth SOME experience. Or say you have an encounter where the players have a heavy tactical advantage of one kind or another. Like... a normally fast enemy pinned into a corner or maybe still suffering a lingering injury. You're not really fighting them at their best, so the fight isn't worth what it would normally be because you're just not having to work or think as hard (in-character OR out-of-character) about it. Finally, if you ABSOLUTELY need to slow things down, you can always try slow level progression rules which a lot of game systems have.
I once just "psychology" to unknowingly railroad my group i.e. illusion of choice. It was a cyberpunk-ish setting and they needed to rescue a prisoner out of an armored transport. I always made slight nudges towards the movie Heat, as I really like the armored car robbery in that one and it's action packed and looked fun to play, and video games we played with similar jobs (i.e. PAYDAY 2 and GTA V). When they eventually had to plan the robbery, one of them was like "Hey I got an idea, how about we use a truck to knock the armored transport over, like in that one movie, what's it called, "Heat" right?" I was lucky that we were using roll 20, as I had the biggest grin on my fucking face while they planned it out further.....
ill start off like this "now this is the story of how the kingdom got turned upside down, so id like to take a minute just sit right there, ill tell you how a goblin became a prince of a town called bella"
One trick I've found to help me be less of a railroading DM is simply this: Let PC choice matter. If they decide to go a completely different route, start reworking around that choice. Let things from their backstories come up in sessions. Change an encounter based on the PCs you master for, even in published campaigns. Give them a chance to change the story from what they decide, and not simply because it's on your plans.
I have yet to start DMing (but I have many an idea for a story *schemehatchery*) but I was wondering about something I experienced in my last game as a player: While playing my first character, an Elven Sorcerer (Draconic), I joined a group that had already been playing for a while and found myself performing surprisingly well for my first game (their words, not mine I promise). We got to one particular part and, when we found one of the NPC villains holding the dead body of my senior Sorceress' master, she cast Meteor Storm on the Tower we were in and brought the tower down and killed us all (this was rectified by another PC using a Wish, but moving forward to my point). My question is this: how do you curtail someone's action if it might ruin one persons (or indeed everyone else's) fun? Or, barring a flat rejection of the idea (which could be very bad), how do you attempt to fix or explain away the decision they make? Thanks in advance!
When things like this are about to happen when I DM, I warn them about the dangers. If that doesn't work, if it really is going to ruin everyone's fun, I may have an NPC stop them, or I may let them do it, but have there be consequences for them (so they hopefully will think their actions through next time). If you are going to punish them be subtle about it and may sure they get something out of it, even if the over-all result is bad for them.
So, ruining everyone's day is basically where I draw the line player freedom -- there's kind of an unspoken contract that the party is working cooperatively with each other to tell a story conducted by the DM, and if someone violates that, good DMing principles are more or less out the window. If a player is going to do something dumb and unfun, the right reaction as a DM here is either to reject a player's action (normally a negative, but this time is serves the game and make sure everyone will have fun) or to rob them of its consequences (IE, everyone escapes the tower safely as it comes down -- no saves.) It's the same logic I have about players that attempt to split the party. If it's in a situation where it will make the session less fun to play, I either tell the player it's not a good idea, or I just have both branches of the party reunite at the next point of interest.
I was playtesting a system with my previous group. In maybe our second session another PC and myself were stealing a boat; not a jet boat mind you just a regular boat. The other player went about loosening the ropes to the moorings. My character was a bit of a joker so I had him give it a little bit of gas, hoping to toss my buddy off the boat and into the water. The "conductor" decided that he got his hand caught in the moorings; made him roll for damage and ended up cutting four of his fingers off. Regardless of the fact that I intimated that I wouldn't have attempted to propel a vehicle forward while we were attached. One of the other players even bought him a conductors hat afterward. One of several instances where he randomly used circumstances that should have been mundane or comical to savagely maim and or torment the characters.
With say yes how do you deal with a first leveller who wants: an ancient dragon for a pet, Rivendell, a helicopter, a motorbike, a spaceship, huge plate armour (he is a wizard), and to be by far the strongest in a ridiculously op party when his lowest stat is a 15 (he is not the strongest surprisingly
One time, my friend got super attached to his character and then died. We had to comfort him gently as he took out a back up. He ended up leading the game with his new one.
I find that sometimes a campaign that is railroaded can sometimes spawn from a lack of player engagement. This is not to say that this particular issue is anyone but the DM's fault (as it is there job to keep the players involved), but sometimes players don't have yet have the tools to engage with a particular DM's personal style. A dark cycle can form in which the players aren't sure where to go so the DM shoves them to the next area; and then the next; and then the next and so on and so forth perpetually. The world could be full of paths for the players to go down, but if they don't know how to engage with them then it can be tempting for the DM to take the drivers seat and railroad. Whenever I sit down with a new group of players I like to chat about how I would like them to interact with me as the DM. My personal favorite method (which I find gets players more involved) is to frame the game like a movie or television show which the players must direct. At the very start of the campaign I let the players in on this idea and inform them that it is going to be their collective job to move the perspective or "the Camera". Every time the players enter a new location I create an "establishing shot" and from there the players take turns grabbing the focus of the camera. This type of interaction may be something as small as a player saying, " Lumina is visibly nervous---She can't seem to get comfortable in his chair and has begun picking at her nails," giving the other players a visual cue which otherwise would have passed everyone by. It could also become something as larger and more interactive a player may take note of the other players comment and step in with a statement like "Vicaver pulls Luminia to the side an says "I couldn't help but notice your concern. Whats wrong?"" a narrative decision and entire scene created by the players. I also gets rid of the tedious question "Can I roll an Arcana check?" style question and replaces it with "Can Harrious recall any information from his studies that may be applicable?" These seams relatively simple, but I find that when I phrase role playing in cinematic terms it gives players a foundation for amazing role play they otherwise wouldn't have had the tools for. In fact the movie analogy works in other places as well; when I begin the campaign I let them know the "Theme" of the campaign and let them use that information to influence the creation of their character. Jason from Friday the 13th probably would fit in a romantic comedy (Though I would buy tickets the second I saw the promo), Swedish Chef wouldn't fit into Game of Thrones and none of Adam Sandlers characters would ever fit in a good movie. I guess the point I am trying to make is that it is important for DM's to inform their players how they run their games because each one is unique and railroading can be the result from a lack of this knowledge; additionally, just to reiterate I am also making the point that Adam Sandler is both a bad actor and writer whom netflix should stop enabling.
Sometimes I dont mind the one off NPC one that has a character behind them but they only pop up once. While yes that did give a quest or was middle or end to a quest it still builds world as their character can either compare or contrast to the society they are around. I feel it develops an area and not stress the DM to make a full fledged NPC that keeps coming back. My idea came from Ratchet and Clank those characters really did help build the world.
haha now that i saw this i remember my first campaign i started this year. i tried to use Matt Mercers style but i just didnt have the time or patience to write a whole world into existence so i tried to improve through the game. i realized that my world was sort of this comic book hastily crayoned in and decided to send them into the out of the abyss campaign but i ended up rail roading or open worlding them to death. not surprising that the group fell off. but its ok i learned never get friends to play D&D get people who are serious about playing and can make it to most sessions. on the positive i did have a session Zero with that first game and for the most part i think everyone enjoyed playing which is something that i can say i am proud of as a first time freelancer. love youre vids i think they are very funny and informational.
My "say yes" story, the party bard got tossed in jail for failing to use a Friends spell on a guard. The party rogue decided in order to break her free, she would sleep with the townmaster. I made her do a constitution saving throw to see if she would get pregnant or not..... She rolled a one.
I'm about to enter my first campaign where the DM is adhering to the rule where a Nat 20 does not affect skill checks. I'm so used to rolling a Nat 20 and letting a miracle happen but now that I know that won't happen anymore, I need to know how to not feel bad about it. I don't know if I'm feeling railroaded because now I absolutely know there are things in this world that the DM can just flatly say "You'll die if you do this" or if I'm just being dramatic
Railroading is more tied to the adventure at hand. Like you have the choice: Door Nr 1 OR Door Nr 1. It's like 'playing' a cut-scene from a video game. But the whole time. What you describe is invoking a house-rule. This rule doesn't hinder you in making decissions in the game. Surely, it nerfs game effects, throttle down the power-level of the session. But you still can decide how to approach a problem, or which battles you pick and which you pass.
I am almost done editing the rules of RPG that is partially based of 4th edition and partially inspired by Gamma World. Does an advice jump off tips of your tongues when I mention those 2 games?
I noticed you guys did not suggest for people who want to start GMing to sit down with a GM, and play with them. I am teaching a friend to GM, and so every game week I ask him to make an encounter (EX: riddle, Nov, monster fight, or whatever.) and I tell him my thoughts on it, and if it is good I put it in my notes to possibly use later. I also have him run a DMPC, so he doesn't just sit on the sides during the actual sessions. We are currently only 3 weeks into the process, but it looks like it is going well for him. He is learning a lot, and I think this could help other people.
If a villain has magic (and lets be honest here, Evil Sorcerer Overlords [tm] can be pretty fun sometimes), and they don't have a Contingency into some sort of teleportation spell for when they drop to low HP, then they were obviously counting on making a last stand.
If you guys do that second DM episode, I had a friend I like to call, "the KING OF RETCON". He was basically a "railroad" who tried his best to be a "sandbox", but every player was either a "munchkin" or "chaotic stupid" so he kept having to spontaneously introduce rules to keep them from ruining the session for everyone else, making him look like the bad guy when he was just trying to save the fun.
Rules are a vehicle to further the story i.m.o. And further rules are applicable, where players interact with the world. You don't need to dice if a npc hits another npc. So things like killing off an npc via a skilled assassin should work. Or maybe a squad of archers / marksmen hiding in the dark, riddle the poor npc with arrows. Poison is a good way - as it might warn the players from the foul game this new, gentle host is playing. But even the npc speaking with the big baddie, who then slays him in front of the heroes is not a problem. If it's not important if the npc survives or not - you might allow your pc's to throw some difficult spot-checks, so they might get wind of what's going on.
Hi Guys....LOVE YOUR STUFF! Just recently discovered your channel. I am an 'old school' D&D player (I'm talking 1st edition old school), and I really haven't played in quite a while. Your material makes me want to just jump right back into RPGing again. What is the best way to find a group and secure a seat at the table?
I actually think a quote from Kevin Siembieda sums this up perfectly: "As a referee and organizer of the game, GMs should, from time to time, stop the game in mid-action to explain things. Point out some likely unwanted consequences if the character(s) continues on their current course of action. Point out that it may conflict with the character's alignment, or say something like 'Your character realizes that innocent people will get hurt if...' "I think sometimes Game Masters forget they also serve as 'referees' or the 'director' of the story, just like the director of a film. I'm not going to stop a guy or gal from doing something they want to do, nor impose nasty penalties or punishments (any problems that arise from an action must be reasonable and work in the context of the adventure), but to offer some well-intentioned observations and gentle warnings. "Personally the way I GM is that virtually anything goes, even after I've pointed out a few things. However, they've been made aware that there will be consequences, so if they proceed, their character will have to live with those consequences. The main idea is to give the player *pause* to consider his or her character's actions. Then it's time to act." I honestly think that is a really good way to DM and I've tried to live up to it. To me, I consider "suggest" or "recommend" to be a better course of action than "refuse" or "order." The way I see it, you have to be ready and WILLING to go off-script if you're going to DM. Because player agency is what makes D&D (and similar RPGs) such a unique and memorable experience. The way I see it, the story should be driven by the players; not the other way around.
A lot of times I use what I like to call the "DC by 5's rule". If the players want to try something out of the box, I think about the possibility of them actually succeeding. Using 10 for something easy, 15 for something moderate, 20 for something hard, and 25 for something darn-near impossible, I set the DC accordingly. Then if the players succeed at doing it, I'll figure out a way to work my way around the situation that the players have put me in. Such as sneaking in a few more monsters.
@ 1:50 ; No. Just No. Player wishes to play a terasque because of their love of kaiju and godzilla. Player want's to input a super sayajin. They came from a pvp game and see anything that has semi sentience as something that needs to die; ala any fight anime ever - Yeah, No, just no. Player wishes to be the demon/angel/vampire/werewolf hybrid super multi-character-race origin-story of emo chat servers everywhere at lvl 1... Just No. If it sounds too good to be true from either end(your side or theirs),... then say hell to the no. Especially if it includes powers or things which would far outpace them to their peers in the group or the monsters facing them. Do not allow them to turn into Mary Sue/Gary Stu's. Each protagonist shares the spotlight. Dm tips: 1: Let the clerics speak to their god or interpret godly signals. 2e was infamous for omen reading and consulting deities... which really was just asking the DM for a clue or help. Encourage it, but don't go overboard and draw out the entire campaign plot of the most recent area. Even if you didn't railroad, allowing PC's to get hints to answers or pushes in the right direction helps. If they chose a god, even if they're not a cleric/priest they still can consult them yanno. Oh and don't let the evil gods and whatnot give "good" instructions. Having a lawful evil deity say please and thank you or kindly and helpfully point the person in a direction that doesn't trouble others is kinda counter intuitive. Play your deities proper. 2: Build the world as the party moves by investing it in the party. Got a party member who seems a bit less lustre than the others? Or maybe one that needs more substance or just wants more substance? Offer that perhaps they should make a map rather than buying one at the local stores. Cheaper on you(in real life) and the party(in character). Plus players that get more invested into parts of the game tend to be better players who are more keen to abide rules and take part, after all they have a stake in things. Players who invent new spells or items give exp to. Players who make maps give special tools and maybe a bit of exp per area to. A little incentive goes a long way. 3: Never forget the most important word in the human language is a persons name. People who don't get recognition or who don't get noticed are less likely to offer their attention : and the power that grants you as a DM since your entire abilities are given to you by those you narrate to and hold the disbelief of. Keep them active and mentioned and the game will reciprocate with keeping a healthy continuation and atmosphere. Give them kudos or a hard time(within reason and tease them) where due. But keep them on their toes. 4: Do not over exaggerate with some fish story outside of character. Saying something like "The small town you leave is flooded with thousands of quasits/imps/mephit like beings coming in such number they block out the sun." should not be returned to as 4 quasit like extra planars and a few low hp creatures bumbling about. Emphasize things as they are, and try to keep to what you've cued. Better to shoot under need to pull the numbers up than the other way around. If they find a abandoned farm inhabited by three zombies they'll think it cake and approach. Then you can add more in as they venture in. Overstating the number though makes you look like an ass when they venture in and don't find many at all. @8:49 4e is fine : az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/09/28/6361063492191613831337431414_maxresdefault.jpg Everything is fine. Just splendid. It's going well.
The 'Say Yes' goes for actions characters want to pull off ingame. Not for stuff the players want or for changing rules or whatever. And like every advise concerning human interaction - it doesn't work in extreme cases. Say yes works until it doesn't work anymore. So essential it means - be open to your players ideas and don't block everything you didn't think of by yourself.
I like your guys' content. Very happy to see this stuff and I look forward to watching all your videos. Feedback: is the guy on my right reading off a script from underneath the camera? That's what it looks like. It doesn't look like he's addressing the camera, which is distracting.
My players are new to D&D but I try to give them as many options as possible to solve a problem but also leave a trail of "breadcrumbs" incase they get stuck. They seem to have realised that following the breadcrumbs I set out for them will lead them through some difficulty. For example I give them an obvious front door and they check if there is a backdoor(if the answer is too obvious it probably is the most difficult way). I think of at least 3 ways I could solve the problem before giving it to the players to figgure out. If they miss something I put a lot of thought like the amazing trap I set for them because they took another way I don't worry about it, this is just another thing thst can be inserted into anorther adventure. Important rule to keep it fun: don't fret over the things the party does not find this time since there will always be opportunities to reuse them later meaning easier preparation for next time and more Easter Eggs to be found. I love it when players come up with ways to solve a problem that I never thought of. I gave my players a cemetery where the villain used a magical lock on the gate making it hard to get in. After discovering climbing the fence was too difficult and risky since there are spikes on the top and since they already saw zombies gutting themselves to get over one player asked if they could dig under the fence, I asked if they had a shovel and yes they did so they got around the problem in a way I did not think of(there was a small gap in part of the fence which they would have found if they walked around the cemetery perimiter as well I considered making it easier to climb if they used a rope or made use of one of the nearby trees to get in).
I try to keep my DMing like taking my dogs to a dog park. They got a big ol' area to explore and meet other dogs. They have free reign in that area to do what they will, but they are still more or less confined to the area that I see fit. Not to say it's like "You hit an invisible wall" but it's more like as soon they leave the fenced area a leash is suddenly attached to them and they feel the need to come back to what they were doing.... this analogy got really out of hand, but I'm sure you more or less get the idea of what I'm trying to say.
Its always a railroad... but the tracks are rubber. A DM can only prepare so much. The only defense vs players running ff in an unexpected direction is... somehow that quest they were going to avoid ends up in their path anyway. It looks like they have free will to go east instead of west, but the ruins somehow show up on the hill to the east.
This may sound very strange, but I used to attend something called Mathnasium (a sort of tutoring center focused on math) and one of the tutors there looked and sounded just like Mike.
Damn, I've been found out! It's true, in addition to being on the internet, I have a day job where I use dice to teach math (on RUclips though, you don't have to call me "Mr." Mike.)
in my last group, half the time when the players came up with a plan, my response was more often "you want to do what?" or "why would you do that?" like "you're wearing banded armor why do you want to SWIM out to the ship?"
There's a slight difference between a _bad choice_ and a _stupid idea_ ;) . "Consequences" should be the keyword for players' actions whenever you say "yes." Although it's difficult to make them not sound as "punishments" sometimes. Especially when said player do not understand that murdering the King will not automatically make him the new King :( .
oh there are always consequences. drowning in the case of the banded armor. dissolving in the case of trying to swim through black pudding. watching all their possessions burn in the crash of their airship when the same player decided to rework the engine when he found out how much the crystals keeping their ship airborne were worth...
I think the "Saying Yes" thing is related to ingame-actions of characters "Can I slide down the wall of the crumbling and leaning tower on my shield?" "Can I try to scale the giant spider and attack her back?" "Can I jump down from the ledge upon the unsuspecting goblin?" Things like that. Invoking new rules or game-effects don't fall in this.
At the moment I'm planing out a game (first time dming) and I'm starting the story with a little prologue a few character choices then they talk to the main villain who then causes the players to black out (magically) because the players failed to retrieve an artefact. Then they wake up in a dungeon that the villain took them too but the villain looks like he left in a hurry after they brake out and get some weapons and armour (suited to there characters) they fight a few enemies they find a chest containing two potions 1. A golden one -3 health 2. A green one +1 to any of there stats and a book that cannot be opened (this will affect the game later) this is only a simplified version of it (and just the start) but does it sound okay so far?
Basically a nice idea. Ther might be a problem with the 'Villain makes them black out with magic'. Some might see this as railroading, because they can't avoid this, regardless of how clever / paranoid they are. What are you going to do, if the players refuse to talk to the baddie, or have exceptional luck with their saving throws? Might poisoned drinks be the better option? (if they fail to check them and drink them, it feels less like an unneccessary punishment of the GM but as fail on their side and therefor less railroady) I would be careful with potions that boost stats. And instead of making that book unable to open (trust me, your players will do many things to open this book) make it hard to read, longwinded in a strange language, or maybe even in different languages. Give them some meat to slash their teeth into. A short excerpt of the book as a handout (from the readable part) maybe even something useful.
It sounds a fair bit like the intro to Baldur’s Gate 2 but I like it. I agree with Robert about the book although I might have it that the words: slide of the page, move about, change every time the book is opened, etc just to give the characters something to puzzle at.
This is extraneous but I noticed the Planescape adventure module in the background. Is there a particular module from that setting you would recommend?
The Great Modron March, Dead Gods, and Tales From The Infinite Staircase are all great. That particular module on our wall, The Deva Spark, is kinda shitty and I wouldn't recommend getting it.
Get on our Patreon (the $1 tier is fine for this, link here: www.patreon.com/user?u=3009550) and download Dark Matter. It'll still in-progress, but we've got all the mechanics there -- space combat, high-tech, and high magic; the works.
Speaking of Planescape adventures, they are the among the worst modules ever written.. they are extreme examples of railroading adventures.as players are treated as spectators rather than participants and the outcome is predetermined for the most part regardless of what the players do or didn't do. The Deva Spark is really a piece of crap. Going through the module, you realize there is really no reason for the players be involved at all.
The players should not be asking whether they can do something. They should simply declare what they are doing. If this goes against in-character common sense, the DM is at liberty to give a warning of (what should be) obvious consequences. Otherwise the PC's will simply be told whether they succeed or fail based on the dice.
To a certain degree, yes. Tabletop RPG doesn't work with real reflexes however. But you could play short scenes or sequences in combat time and let them work from there. Whenever there is the question "Are the players able to do something in a limited timeframe" "Are the players able to pick the lock, open the door silently and slide in, closing the door again in the 5 or 6 rounds the guards need before they reach the corner?" "Can the players defuse the bomb in 10 rounds?" Things like this for example.
These are my rules on GMing, and may or may not apply to anyone.. but I found these work for me. Rule 0: Are the players having fun? Does an action sound like it could be fun? If so, roll with it. Rule 1: Check the ego at the door. It's not my game, it's a game I'm running for the players. Rule 2: Try not to say yes or no to a player, but "you can try." and have them roll/describe the attempt. (Unless their attempt makes sense only to them then it's probably not doable or a good idea...) Rule 3: The character's story trumps the GM's story, so the GM's story should revolve around that. However, don't offer easy solutions, make players work for it. The best flavor for victory is the effort to make it happen. Rule 4: Think ahead, but not too far. What the player focuses on should be where the GM goes first. And when lost, offer paths and options for them to follow up on, or remind them about story leads... Rule 5: WRITE it down! Victories, defeats, the odd quip, the person they insulted.. it's all fuel for story ideas. Make it come back on them 10 fold. Nothing makes a NPC more memorable than when that NPC remembers the PC's first, and proves it. Rule 6: Even idle RP is fuel for more ideas. Rule 7: Don't punish mistakes out of game, but in game. Bashing a door in when stealth was the better option, the goblins may have ran to tell their fellows.. especially when it took three tries to bring the door down.
I needed this video to send to my dm. I'm rather new in DnD, but have played and DMed other kinds of RPGs for years, so my strength as player and my character's strength is not in knowing and being able to exploit the rules, but rather role playing and creative solutions. Sadly, these ideas never get rewarded, even if I ace all my rolls, because my DM railroads so much.
As my preferred GMing style is actually mixing what I see as the best aspects of both railroading and sandboxing, my current approach to session prepping is: - *Choose a central theme:* Although RPG is a game genre with the principle of collaborative storytelling at its core, the players will feel at loss if they don't know what they are supposed to do. So, for each session, I choose a theme/fact/event to build the adventure around. The players will be more likely to play an adventure if they spawned its seed themselves (invest in previous players' choices). Whenever possible, I pick the adventure's theme from the players' goals and/or deeds whilst weaving my campaign setting into it to also achieve my own expectations (the DM/GM is a player too ;) !). - *Events, not scenes:* If your adventure _must_ have key moments (and most likely will), you should elaborate the _general idea_ of said events, and not how they should unfold. That allows the players to approach the situation as they see fit (allowing them agency and input), whilst you can adjust things on the fly (and get more ideas from the players). I usually come to a session with a few things in mind. Mostly the beginning of the adventure and 3~5 bullet points. - *Cast and scenery:* Write down the very essential informations (only the very essential) about key characters and places that will most likely appear throughout the adventure. Despite improvisation being essential, being preppered is always helpful. Prep in advance what you'll not improvise. It's important to _know and understand_ the topic of which you're going to talk about _before_ actually talking. Improvisation _must_ be balanced with _notes_ so you don't turn your omelet into scrambled eggs ;) . That's pretty much what works for me. I hope anyone find that useful, as an addition to what the fellas presented us :) !
It is one thing to get a group together but trying to find a good DM is where many players get frustrated. And what I mean by a good DM is someone who wont put the players on rails, who wont let their buddy (who is 2 or 3 levels higher then the PC's) do all the killing and talking and the rest of the players sit around for thee or four hours doing nothing. I consider myself a great DM, I have been running three groups for the last three months with out much problems. Of course I as the DM severely restrict Alignments to Good only, no chaotic stupid (neutral) , no Dragonborne or tieflings, nor any Warlocks, both races and classes do not jive in my Greyhawk campaign. Granted it does restrict the players on choices but it also has a certain party Harmony which I think goes a long way to Campaign longevity.
its my first experience making a story as a dm, and my players first experience at dnd, the story is based on the warlock's patron wants the party to kill a brass dragon at the 7th hell, how can i not railroad, i want them to have a amazing introduction do tabletop rpg, and railroading makes the game unfun to the players. How can i make the story without railroading
I've never had an issue with Railroading but my god this channel was too great not to subscribe. As a DM though I can say the best way to kick railroading to the curb is to not use a premade adventure. I had an exalted game go awful because someone killed one of the premade characters. We were disappointed because the DM we had was generally an improvisational type. Premade adventures are good but be wary as they can hold some people back.
You need to tweak and alter premade adventures to fit your party. There is not much less work in preparing a premade adventure and making one of your own. Though, you have a nice base to work from.
Okay so I'm a young dm'r, male 13, and I play dnd with my friends and brothers. Getting money to build and craft a tabletop board game isn't the easiest so I was wondering is there anyway I can make a good session but without the board at all? If so how can I do this? Also, I love dming but I tend to always put my players against units to strong or to weak, is there any monsters that are good for levels 1-3 and then 4-6? Usually by the 6 mark I just do whatever because my players play paladins and barbarians a lot so I just do whatever because after that it's a continuous challenge for them. P.S. Is there anyway you can sort of railroad a story yet make the story very interesting and entertaining? If so how lol
All you need is blank paper and a few (eventually colored) pencils / markers. Bigger sheets are better, so maybe fetch 11.7 by 16.5 inch papers (A3). If you need figurines - you'll find plenty cardbord-miniatures in the internet or draw them yourself. It's the most handily way and much cheaper then buying lead-minis. Balancing challanges is a skill that comes with experience. It's better to err on the lower end. An easy challenge may not be as compelling, but a too hard challenge kills of your players characters and is more frustrating. When railroading - and you probably can't avoid it everytime (some things need to happen to have an adventure), try to disguise it. Small example from another video (can't remember who it was...) Heroes are on Planet A - the adventure is on planet B (or city or whatever). *Bad way:* Player: "Hey GM - are there any ships in the port travelling away from here?" GM: "There's only a ship travelling to Planet B." Player: "Oh - nooo, I hate Planet B. Is there no other option?" GM: "Nope." *Good way:* Player: "Hey GM are there any ships in the port travelling away from here?" GM "There are three ships at the moment. One goes to World F, the next one to World X and the third one to World Q. The ship to world F seems a bit... rustic, but it is the cheapes flight you might get." Player: "Awesome! I always wanted to go to world F! Let's take this one!" Later, the ship get's attacked by vicious space pirates. After a heroic battle, the players manage to fend them of along the crew. GM: "You did well the captain is thankful. But, alas, the machines are damaged. You need to land somewhere for repairs. The next habitable world is World B - but in a few days you might continue with the flight." What happened? First the players had the illusion of choice. Regardless of which ship they had taken, the pirates would have attacked and damaged the ship so it had to land on the world, where your actual adventure starts... Second - knowing the players would like to visit world F - you have a good clue where to place the next adventure.
Noticeable railroading (the real problem here) is usually noticeable because you plan the solution of the adventure. As DM, you should plan the problem of the adventure, not the solution. If a PC's solution might work (even if that chance seems minute!), die roll. It's that simple really.
Haha the whole yes doctor thing reminds me of one of my first dm’ing experiences! One of my players asked if they could (yes im not joking this was the first question asked) f*k a dead horse (phendelver if youre familiar) and so I said make a performance check not wanting to say uh no. And low and behold he nat 20’d f*king a dead horse, long story short he received a “wand” of resErection.... >.> -.- XD
theorderofthenerd he would need to single handedly create modern technology, get a modern understanding of physics, then from there understand magic, the planes, prototype all the shit, actually open the portal and then also create the internet. Maybe if he does an entire campaign worth of work or 100 nat 20s he may be able to pull it off.
The rule of 'Yes' has it's limits. You may allow many things, strange things, cinematic things. But depending on the campaign played, the groups playstyle and the tone at the table, there are things, that are just off limits. And your responsibility as a GM is to make that clear.
I love doing that. For a short campaign (4 sessions, really good break between big campaigns), I have a player roll a d12. No matter the number they roll, I tell them they avoided a random attack with this or that monster. I never actually want them to fight a random adventure, I just wanted to show a bit more of the world and its dangers. Naturally, this won't work if you repeatedly do it with the same players, but I find the extra level of deception helps drive home the scary reality of the world.
I try to remind GMs who struggle with the polarity of railroading versus sandbox, is there is nothing wrong with knowing a chain of events, but what should be most important, that you guys touched on is open ended problems, but also presenting players choices. If one major choice is resolved every game, say for example, "Do you head to Mordor, or do you rescue your Hobbit companions?" the mission may be "Destroy the One Ring" but, if as GM you take the steps just one ahead of your players at a time, your story can stay structured, but won't become a "railroad". The douchey NPC Boromir may inevitably try to take the Ring, but the ripples of that event can create choice. Just don't split the party. Also, Mike, are we sure Matt Colville hasn't trademarked "Doobly-Doo"?
Make the full world ahead of time start them in a city or different areas and let the wander to the points they want to wander and let them make the story as they go letting them lead themselves
Don't know if you've done this already, but it would be quite helpful if you produced a guide to Low Magic Campaigns with all the different options available, or maybe even make a full Low magic Campaign. What i mean is either outline the options (Sword and Sorcery, only Warlocks, One god, rae magic items etc etc), or create a low magic campaign with decisions already taken for players to play in. Just made a reddit post which may explain it better ! - www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/723w5p/help_and_advice_with_lowmagic_campaigns_in_5e/ It's just very difficult to create a cohesive and playable DnD 5e Low Magic campaign as magic is pervasive. I really don't like taht there are Wizards / Sorcerors / bards / Warlocks. I'd rather just have Wizards for example and have other magic used by 'villains' or not used at all in that world. great channel and website though thks guys.
I'm about to DM for the first time but I know I'm going to have to deal with new players and someone who likes to fuck with stuff for no good reason. What the fuck do I do? I don't want to railroad but the fucker might ruin the experience for everyone.
Adaptation and flexibility are the keys to not being a conductor. It takes practice of course. From my own experience... try running a game for a bunch of 8-10 year olds... and put their happiness above yours for the session. Kids are completely unbeholden to any pre-existing expectations, so you will never be able to keep them on the rails to begin with. And unless you simply don't care about making kids sad and grumpy (in which case, you have other issues), I guarantee you will get better at letting players take the lead and drive the narrative, forcing you to take a more reactive role, while still running an entertaining game.
Hey i posted a comment about how to get/make decent potion bottle on your guys video of the five worst types of player i recommend you check it out, it would probably cost less than 30 bucks
You know, there is a town-guard. And they might have a wizard with some 'hold person'-spell. As long as your characters are no walking gods, chances are, that they are not the only ones, roaming the lands. Chances are, other higher-level ruffians plague the land and some cities might have found solutions for this. Or even let a 'real' hero-party chase after them for torturing and killing innocents. It's all about consequences. Saying yes to players ideas, doesn't mean they automatically succeed. And for your chaotic-stupid murder-hobo characters - I've seen a video about exactly this problem... you might just search here for "why are my players murder hobos". It has some really interesting points in it.
Am I the only one that things 'jobs board' is stupid and that making fetch-quests in something that isn't pre-scripted is also kind of boring? Is it just me? These things are done in video games in light of the difficulties in making more free-form things. One would think that side quests would or should crop up as more 'natural' features of a main driving story.
I think the question is how you approach the side-quests. A simple WOW-like fetch quest ("Get me 20 candles, that for an odd reason only grow on some cave-dweller helmets") is stupid and boring. That's right. But actually make some random (as in, they don't tie in the campaigns meta-plot) quests who actually fill an evening. Let the simple wolf hunt reveal, that some crazy human-hunting cultists live in the woods. The letter delivery leads in a cursed village. The 'Fetch ingredients' might lead to a mushroom ring and a fairy-dimension... The lost daughter went to that strange house, that only appears every 20 years for 3 days and then vanishes again... Keep those linear and closed. You can get back to your actual adventure the next time - and the players will thank you for this liberty.
I think if its something that could be done by five farmers and their children it shouldn't be forced upon your adventurers as if its some epic thing. You are playing as a band of literal heroes, not some dude who has the day off work and wants to help out town. Instead of a wolf hunt why not a suspected werewolf? Instead of bandit attacks on a massive city why not a criminal ring that has infiltrated the guard? Instead of delivering Farmer Molly's Pizza, why not be entrusted to deliver - in a ritualistic fashion - a divine instrument that ends up being a cursed item? I think there is little excuse for making your party do mundane things simply because its 'tradition' - unless that is what they choose to do with their time. I also like the idea of making everything be very flexible. So instead of having the Puffin problem where the players 'miss content' - just...change the content. If you have an idea tied to a thing, but your players have a different direction they are going - find some creative way to work the things into that direction. Also I should mention that I don't like how a lot of these people that make dm help videos seem to think the point of dnd should be to make players not want to play. Working to kill them, only cheating in the favor of their enemies, curbing any attempt of any of them to have a chance to actually have fun and working towards the goal of having a tpk.
Chris Fox: I think the idea of a hero is not the guy who slays the dragon / kills the demi-lich and frees the realms of the utmost terrors. Heroes are the guys who help the people. And I think further, that players every now and then might like a break form saving the world. Side quests are exactly this - opportunities to be heroes on a smaller scale. Yes 5 peasants might kill the bear or the wolfpack in the woods. But two of them might get injured or killed in the process. You helping them out saves their lives and the existence of their families. Just because it's not epic, doesn't mean it's not heroic. Then again things like the job-board are not forced on the players - it's up to them to take a little vacation from the big evils of the world or not. And this goes for higher level characters - if you start on lvl 1 you are not the world shaking hero, you don't have the abilities to fight the big evils. But a pack of goblins harrassing the farmers on the outskirts of the realm you live in, might exactly be your shoe-size. I give you, however, that your epic lvl 20 characters maybe don't get much of a challenge from 5 wolves and 3 goblins... To your second point about how DM-helper videos are about how to harm characters and such: I don't know what kind of videos you watched, but from my experience it's mostly about challenge the characters and sometimes challenge the players. Yes GMs fudge dice, yes they hit the weak-spots of the heroes or throw them in situations they can't just resolve with a few high powered skills. Eeasy victories taste stall, too easy victories are tasteles and boring. Ask yourself: What kind of adventure do you want to have? One that is hardly a problem for the skillset of your character, a few lame combat-encounters, barely worth noticing and some kind of villain-of-the-week you need about twice as much combat rounds as for his last batch of minions? Or that kind of teeth-gritting murderous challange, all odds against you and your fellows, the trusted NPC stabbing your back when least expected, but still you manage to survive and even better, to stop the big threat in a last epic confrontation, where you're able to turn the page at the last chance? (And if that - how soothing might some less epic adventure for the next evening sound like?)
In real life yes - but then 99.99% of the DnD rules would have to be thrown out since its a game about the more 'fantasy' definition of hero. Not many people are going to want to play a game of DnD about being a single mother who works three jobs to ensure her children can go to school, though arguably that is more heroic than slaying a dragon. Right? And, maybe I wasn't explaining myself correctly. I didn't mention challenge at all in my comment. Trying to challenge your players is one thing, working towards their failure is another. Most GMs I watch suggest as such as talk with glee about their players failing or not being able to get past an obstacle. People don't play to be beaten down most of the time, that is why 'rogue-like' is a niche genre, and it makes the game not fun when your GM's goal is not to tell a story but to make you lose. When it becomes GM vs Players, it becomes the GM's fun vs the Player's fun - unless you are playing with players that get enjoyment out of failing. The sorts of GMs I listened to, as I mentioned, did videos about 'fudging' dice - stating that you should only do it in order to screw over your players and never to help them, and in fact you should actually actively work towards making the enemies do more damage or hit when they should miss or do less. I think that is absurd, it doesn't make people feel triumphant when their character dies, people DO want to get past a challenge against all odds yes, but they can't do that when you don't let them, can they? I did give Mercer a hard time because so many people I tried playing with refused to play because the GM wouldn't act like him - but at least he has a rather good way of GMing. He helps his players succeed, he lets them find ways to get past obstacles, he gives them a challenge without beating them down, and his goal isn't to destroy them. You should scale things to your players, but remember that the players are playing the game, not that goblin that you just wrote down on a sticky note for a random encounter.
I never mentioned to 'stop' heroing alltogether and play something ordinary. I just pondered about that sometimes, if the players are up to, a less world-shaking challenge might be an interesting break from the hero-business as usual. And second - where did you get the impression, that all or most gm-helper videos encourage destroying the players fun? Oh and, don't confuse the players fun with the characters fun. That are two complete different things. In my Call of Cthulhu campaign, the characters suffer a lot and are often confronted with challenges, they can't overcome by directly attacking it. But the players however, love every minute of it. I know, it's another genre and played in a different way. Third I want to mention that rules are nothing more then a vehicle to transport an adventure. They are kind of the interface that allows players to interact with the game-world. But they have to do very little with the role-playing aspect of a role-playing-game. Think of it - in this regard - as an programming langugage. It enables you to do stuff and maybe restricts you in some way. But what you do with it, is up to you.
My "say yes" is "well, you can defiantly try" which has become dreaded by my players as "you will probably fail, but you can take a shot"
I'm loving Mercer more every day. xD
definetely*
Ivan Alekseyev definitely
that
Is this meant to read definitely or defiantly? Because both are rather appropriate.
You need to cut quicker. There is a quarter second of awkward staring forward after every point and its really off putting.
They should check the brasilian channel "vertente geek". The do an awesome job in editing. Its also a RPG channel, but I dont know if u guys like reading subtittles
Kinda why I like this channel tbh
They are reading queue cards. They should think about maybe memorizing the content? Kinda revolutionary concept
Try using Schrodinger's Gun (or railSCHROding) instead. Basically, if you didn't state otherwise, you can make the world do whatever it wants. Did you want them to explore the catacombs of the city they just left? While they leave they might come across some ruins that happen to have the exact layout of those catacombs you made.
Schrodinger's gun is a play on Chekhov's gun and Schrodinger's cat, in case you're curious.
This works very well, unless the world you play in is meticously detailed (the virtue and bane of 'The Dark Eye').
But on a lower level it still does the trick.
If the adventurers refuse to talk to Hendrik the Bard about the Tome of Bloody Evisceration in the Lair of the Fairy-Lich-King, but instead they want to know about the wherabouts of the area from Burd the Barkeeper, he magically has the same knowledge about Tome and Lair...
The mage they need to find in the village they didn't pass, because they wanted to hunt goblins in the woods instead might also travel along with the gypsie-group just camping in the woods near their resting place...
plan characters rather than events. make a google doc of places and the people those places inhabit. their motivations, who they worship, etc. NEVER plan how an event will unfold. present it to the party and let them mold it.
It can be very worthwhile to plan out the most likely outcomes and the immediate consequences. Then you won't get stumped and most of the time, when you know the group a bit more, you'll know how they decide anyway. But what do I know? I've been accused of railroading just because most characters in the players vicinity where arseholes and where using them for their plans (mind you! this was not D&D but rather the World of Darkness)
Thanks for posting this! I'm currently writing my first original campaign (with some inspiration taken from Storm King's Thunder) and railroading is what I'm most afraid of. These tips definitely help, especially the ones about building open problems and using the illusion of choice :)
Another suggestion: I've found after a decade of DMing, it helps a lot to write the beginning and end and let the players do the middle themselves.
Thanks! I'll definitely keep that in mind moving forward.
Use a technique called "Keyframing" when writing quests or events. Scribble out some neat things you want to happen and then shoehorn them together. Also, not every NPC or monster will fight to the death. If an intelligent baddie gets away from a fight early in the campaign, consider having it return, but stronger and with a grudge at the worst possible time. Suddenly, a boring NPC to kill became a nice little side-quest the group didn't even know about.
Oh dang I love the idea of an NPC with a grudge. I'm writing that down right now, thanks!
That's currently what I'm doing - My first time DMing atm...
I've watched a few of your videos so far, and I have to admit I'm very impressed, namely because of the mailbag of holding topic at the end of your episodes. At its core, D&D is a cooperative storytelling game, and the inclusion of a discussion section featuring the comments of viewers is a brilliant way to uphold this core even when just discussing the game. In addition, intentionally or not, your videos often include many perspectives that make me feel intrigued when watching videos as opposed to driven away due to the circumstances of my gaming group and play style, which can be very varied between people.
Thanks for some brilliant thinking, from both the creators and the viewers. I'll be watching as well ^^
Oh, almost forgot to add, love the books in the back. Some of my favorite stories.
My PC'S have leveled up very fast, but I want them to enjoy the game. How do I fix this?
magicmangaming Encourage down time activities(crafting, business, etc.) and stretch out the role play. Constant combat is just grinding XP.
This might be an unpopular suggestion, but we actually have never used XP at all. Our parties level up whenever they earn it, whether that be after a difficult boss fight or at the end of a quest or story arc. That way, they stay at exactly the level the DM wants, they are never over- or under-powered, and nobody has to worry about calculating XP.
If it's the fast levelling that's preventing them enjoying the game, then milestone levelling is a good answer. Personally, though, I've always found the RAW XP system painfully slow...
One thing people sometimes forget is to either divide experience by the number of people in the encounter. (I.e. If an encounter is worth 1,000xp but there are 5 people in the group, the labor is divided and the encounter is only worth 200xp apiece.) Experience values are also only ceterus paribus RECOMMENDATIONS and don't take into account the details of a situation. for example, in a recent level 1 Pathfinder campaign, one of our PCs mercy-killed a high-level dragonkin as part of the plot. The dragonkin was willing and in fact ASKED for death and technically the PC killed him, but it still wasn't a battle. However, the experience was still emotionally taxing and was therefore still worth SOME experience.
Or say you have an encounter where the players have a heavy tactical advantage of one kind or another. Like... a normally fast enemy pinned into a corner or maybe still suffering a lingering injury. You're not really fighting them at their best, so the fight isn't worth what it would normally be because you're just not having to work or think as hard (in-character OR out-of-character) about it.
Finally, if you ABSOLUTELY need to slow things down, you can always try slow level progression rules which a lot of game systems have.
Thanks for the advice!
Thanks you for this because I railroaded a lot and this helped me fix my campaign
Before even watching this I’ve decided to sub because of how much I like your channel name 🔥🔥
I once just "psychology" to unknowingly railroad my group i.e. illusion of choice. It was a cyberpunk-ish setting and they needed to rescue a prisoner out of an armored transport. I always made slight nudges towards the movie Heat, as I really like the armored car robbery in that one and it's action packed and looked fun to play, and video games we played with similar jobs (i.e. PAYDAY 2 and GTA V). When they eventually had to plan the robbery, one of them was like "Hey I got an idea, how about we use a truck to knock the armored transport over, like in that one movie, what's it called, "Heat" right?"
I was lucky that we were using roll 20, as I had the biggest grin on my fucking face while they planned it out further.....
ill start off like this
"now this is the story of how the kingdom got turned upside down, so id like to take a minute just sit right there, ill tell you how a goblin became a prince of a town called bella"
One trick I've found to help me be less of a railroading DM is simply this: Let PC choice matter. If they decide to go a completely different route, start reworking around that choice. Let things from their backstories come up in sessions. Change an encounter based on the PCs you master for, even in published campaigns. Give them a chance to change the story from what they decide, and not simply because it's on your plans.
"When a player can do anything their heart desires" I legit thought you were going to end that with "they're going to decide to murder."
OMG you two are adorable!
I find it hard to resist the temptation of the railroad, and I appreciated this advice video.
Nice tips guys
I have yet to start DMing (but I have many an idea for a story *schemehatchery*) but I was wondering about something I experienced in my last game as a player:
While playing my first character, an Elven Sorcerer (Draconic), I joined a group that had already been playing for a while and found myself performing surprisingly well for my first game (their words, not mine I promise). We got to one particular part and, when we found one of the NPC villains holding the dead body of my senior Sorceress' master, she cast Meteor Storm on the Tower we were in and brought the tower down and killed us all (this was rectified by another PC using a Wish, but moving forward to my point).
My question is this: how do you curtail someone's action if it might ruin one persons (or indeed everyone else's) fun? Or, barring a flat rejection of the idea (which could be very bad), how do you attempt to fix or explain away the decision they make? Thanks in advance!
When things like this are about to happen when I DM, I warn them about the dangers. If that doesn't work, if it really is going to ruin everyone's fun, I may have an NPC stop them, or I may let them do it, but have there be consequences for them (so they hopefully will think their actions through next time). If you are going to punish them be subtle about it and may sure they get something out of it, even if the over-all result is bad for them.
So, ruining everyone's day is basically where I draw the line player freedom -- there's kind of an unspoken contract that the party is working cooperatively with each other to tell a story conducted by the DM, and if someone violates that, good DMing principles are more or less out the window. If a player is going to do something dumb and unfun, the right reaction as a DM here is either to reject a player's action (normally a negative, but this time is serves the game and make sure everyone will have fun) or to rob them of its consequences (IE, everyone escapes the tower safely as it comes down -- no saves.)
It's the same logic I have about players that attempt to split the party. If it's in a situation where it will make the session less fun to play, I either tell the player it's not a good idea, or I just have both branches of the party reunite at the next point of interest.
I was playtesting a system with my previous group. In maybe our second session another PC and myself were stealing a boat; not a jet boat mind you just a regular boat. The other player went about loosening the ropes to the moorings. My character was a bit of a joker so I had him give it a little bit of gas, hoping to toss my buddy off the boat and into the water. The "conductor" decided that he got his hand caught in the moorings; made him roll for damage and ended up cutting four of his fingers off. Regardless of the fact that I intimated that I wouldn't have attempted to propel a vehicle forward while we were attached. One of the other players even bought him a conductors hat afterward. One of several instances where he randomly used circumstances that should have been mundane or comical to savagely maim and or torment the characters.
With say yes how do you deal with a first leveller who wants: an ancient dragon for a pet, Rivendell, a helicopter, a motorbike, a spaceship, huge plate armour (he is a wizard), and to be by far the strongest in a ridiculously op party when his lowest stat is a 15 (he is not the strongest surprisingly
One time, my friend got super attached to his character and then died. We had to comfort him gently as he took out a back up. He ended up leading the game with his new one.
I find that sometimes a campaign that is railroaded can sometimes spawn from a lack of player engagement. This is not to say that this particular issue is anyone but the DM's fault (as it is there job to keep the players involved), but sometimes players don't have yet have the tools to engage with a particular DM's personal style. A dark cycle can form in which the players aren't sure where to go so the DM shoves them to the next area; and then the next; and then the next and so on and so forth perpetually. The world could be full of paths for the players to go down, but if they don't know how to engage with them then it can be tempting for the DM to take the drivers seat and railroad. Whenever I sit down with a new group of players I like to chat about how I would like them to interact with me as the DM. My personal favorite method (which I find gets players more involved) is to frame the game like a movie or television show which the players must direct. At the very start of the campaign I let the players in on this idea and inform them that it is going to be their collective job to move the perspective or "the Camera". Every time the players enter a new location I create an "establishing shot" and from there the players take turns grabbing the focus of the camera. This type of interaction may be something as small as a player saying, " Lumina is visibly nervous---She can't seem to get comfortable in his chair and has begun picking at her nails," giving the other players a visual cue which otherwise would have passed everyone by. It could also become something as larger and more interactive a player may take note of the other players comment and step in with a statement like "Vicaver pulls Luminia to the side an says "I couldn't help but notice your concern. Whats wrong?"" a narrative decision and entire scene created by the players. I also gets rid of the tedious question "Can I roll an Arcana check?" style question and replaces it with "Can Harrious recall any information from his studies that may be applicable?" These seams relatively simple, but I find that when I phrase role playing in cinematic terms it gives players a foundation for amazing role play they otherwise wouldn't have had the tools for. In fact the movie analogy works in other places as well; when I begin the campaign I let them know the "Theme" of the campaign and let them use that information to influence the creation of their character. Jason from Friday the 13th probably would fit in a romantic comedy (Though I would buy tickets the second I saw the promo), Swedish Chef wouldn't fit into Game of Thrones and none of Adam Sandlers characters would ever fit in a good movie. I guess the point I am trying to make is that it is important for DM's to inform their players how they run their games because each one is unique and railroading can be the result from a lack of this knowledge; additionally, just to reiterate I am also making the point that Adam Sandler is both a bad actor and writer whom netflix should stop enabling.
Holy wall of text, batman
Sometimes I dont mind the one off NPC one that has a character behind them but they only pop up once. While yes that did give a quest or was middle or end to a quest it still builds world as their character can either compare or contrast to the society they are around. I feel it develops an area and not stress the DM to make a full fledged NPC that keeps coming back. My idea came from Ratchet and Clank those characters really did help build the world.
haha now that i saw this i remember my first campaign i started this year. i tried to use Matt Mercers style but i just didnt have the time or patience to write a whole world into existence so i tried to improve through the game. i realized that my world was sort of this comic book hastily crayoned in and decided to send them into the out of the abyss campaign but i ended up rail roading or open worlding them to death. not surprising that the group fell off. but its ok i learned never get friends to play D&D get people who are serious about playing and can make it to most sessions. on the positive i did have a session Zero with that first game and for the most part i think everyone enjoyed playing which is something that i can say i am proud of as a first time freelancer. love youre vids i think they are very funny and informational.
My "say yes" story, the party bard got tossed in jail for failing to use a Friends spell on a guard. The party rogue decided in order to break her free, she would sleep with the townmaster. I made her do a constitution saving throw to see if she would get pregnant or not..... She rolled a one.
DragonLady OOF
I'm about to enter my first campaign where the DM is adhering to the rule where a Nat 20 does not affect skill checks. I'm so used to rolling a Nat 20 and letting a miracle happen but now that I know that won't happen anymore, I need to know how to not feel bad about it. I don't know if I'm feeling railroaded because now I absolutely know there are things in this world that the DM can just flatly say "You'll die if you do this" or if I'm just being dramatic
Railroading is more tied to the adventure at hand.
Like you have the choice: Door Nr 1 OR Door Nr 1.
It's like 'playing' a cut-scene from a video game. But the whole time.
What you describe is invoking a house-rule. This rule doesn't hinder you in making decissions in the game. Surely, it nerfs game effects, throttle down the power-level of the session. But you still can decide how to approach a problem, or which battles you pick and which you pass.
What are your thoughts on Pathfinder?
I am almost done editing the rules of RPG that is partially based of 4th edition and partially inspired by Gamma World. Does an advice jump off tips of your tongues when I mention those 2 games?
I noticed you guys did not suggest for people who want to start GMing to sit down with a GM, and play with them.
I am teaching a friend to GM, and so every game week I ask him to make an encounter (EX: riddle, Nov, monster fight, or whatever.) and I tell him my thoughts on it, and if it is good I put it in my notes to possibly use later.
I also have him run a DMPC, so he doesn't just sit on the sides during the actual sessions.
We are currently only 3 weeks into the process, but it looks like it is going well for him. He is learning a lot, and I think this could help other people.
I was in a oneshot campaign a few days ago where we weren't allowed to head up a staircase because one of the players hadn’t joined the party yet
If a villain has magic (and lets be honest here, Evil Sorcerer Overlords [tm] can be pretty fun sometimes), and they don't have a Contingency into some sort of teleportation spell for when they drop to low HP, then they were obviously counting on making a last stand.
Do you all film yourselves playing? If so, where can I watch?
If you guys do that second DM episode, I had a friend I like to call, "the KING OF RETCON". He was basically a "railroad" who tried his best to be a "sandbox", but every player was either a "munchkin" or "chaotic stupid" so he kept having to spontaneously introduce rules to keep them from ruining the session for everyone else, making him look like the bad guy when he was just trying to save the fun.
Really helpful videos guys.
Can you explain how to pull off a twist without it being a railroad moment? Like killing an npc in front of the players.
Rules are a vehicle to further the story i.m.o.
And further rules are applicable, where players interact with the world.
You don't need to dice if a npc hits another npc.
So things like killing off an npc via a skilled assassin should work. Or maybe a squad of archers / marksmen hiding in the dark, riddle the poor npc with arrows.
Poison is a good way - as it might warn the players from the foul game this new, gentle host is playing.
But even the npc speaking with the big baddie, who then slays him in front of the heroes is not a problem.
If it's not important if the npc survives or not - you might allow your pc's to throw some difficult spot-checks, so they might get wind of what's going on.
Hi Guys....LOVE YOUR STUFF! Just recently discovered your channel. I am an 'old school' D&D player (I'm talking 1st edition old school), and I really haven't played in quite a while. Your material makes me want to just jump right back into RPGing again. What is the best way to find a group and secure a seat at the table?
I actually think a quote from Kevin Siembieda sums this up perfectly:
"As a referee and organizer of the game, GMs should, from time to time, stop the game in mid-action to explain things. Point out some likely unwanted consequences if the character(s) continues on their current course of action. Point out that it may conflict with the character's alignment, or say something like 'Your character realizes that innocent people will get hurt if...'
"I think sometimes Game Masters forget they also serve as 'referees' or the 'director' of the story, just like the director of a film. I'm not going to stop a guy or gal from doing something they want to do, nor impose nasty penalties or punishments (any problems that arise from an action must be reasonable and work in the context of the adventure), but to offer some well-intentioned observations and gentle warnings.
"Personally the way I GM is that virtually anything goes, even after I've pointed out a few things. However, they've been made aware that there will be consequences, so if they proceed, their character will have to live with those consequences. The main idea is to give the player *pause* to consider his or her character's actions. Then it's time to act."
I honestly think that is a really good way to DM and I've tried to live up to it. To me, I consider "suggest" or "recommend" to be a better course of action than "refuse" or "order." The way I see it, you have to be ready and WILLING to go off-script if you're going to DM. Because player agency is what makes D&D (and similar RPGs) such a unique and memorable experience. The way I see it, the story should be driven by the players; not the other way around.
A lot of times I use what I like to call the "DC by 5's rule". If the players want to try something out of the box, I think about the possibility of them actually succeeding. Using 10 for something easy, 15 for something moderate, 20 for something hard, and 25 for something darn-near impossible, I set the DC accordingly. Then if the players succeed at doing it, I'll figure out a way to work my way around the situation that the players have put me in. Such as sneaking in a few more monsters.
@ 1:50 ; No. Just No. Player wishes to play a terasque because of their love of kaiju and godzilla. Player want's to input a super sayajin. They came from a pvp game and see anything that has semi sentience as something that needs to die; ala any fight anime ever - Yeah, No, just no. Player wishes to be the demon/angel/vampire/werewolf hybrid super multi-character-race origin-story of emo chat servers everywhere at lvl 1... Just No. If it sounds too good to be true from either end(your side or theirs),... then say hell to the no. Especially if it includes powers or things which would far outpace them to their peers in the group or the monsters facing them. Do not allow them to turn into Mary Sue/Gary Stu's. Each protagonist shares the spotlight.
Dm tips:
1: Let the clerics speak to their god or interpret godly signals. 2e was infamous for omen reading and consulting deities... which really was just asking the DM for a clue or help. Encourage it, but don't go overboard and draw out the entire campaign plot of the most recent area. Even if you didn't railroad, allowing PC's to get hints to answers or pushes in the right direction helps. If they chose a god, even if they're not a cleric/priest they still can consult them yanno. Oh and don't let the evil gods and whatnot give "good" instructions. Having a lawful evil deity say please and thank you or kindly and helpfully point the person in a direction that doesn't trouble others is kinda counter intuitive. Play your deities proper.
2: Build the world as the party moves by investing it in the party. Got a party member who seems a bit less lustre than the others? Or maybe one that needs more substance or just wants more substance? Offer that perhaps they should make a map rather than buying one at the local stores. Cheaper on you(in real life) and the party(in character). Plus players that get more invested into parts of the game tend to be better players who are more keen to abide rules and take part, after all they have a stake in things. Players who invent new spells or items give exp to. Players who make maps give special tools and maybe a bit of exp per area to. A little incentive goes a long way.
3: Never forget the most important word in the human language is a persons name. People who don't get recognition or who don't get noticed are less likely to offer their attention : and the power that grants you as a DM since your entire abilities are given to you by those you narrate to and hold the disbelief of. Keep them active and mentioned and the game will reciprocate with keeping a healthy continuation and atmosphere. Give them kudos or a hard time(within reason and tease them) where due. But keep them on their toes.
4: Do not over exaggerate with some fish story outside of character. Saying something like "The small town you leave is flooded with thousands of quasits/imps/mephit like beings coming in such number they block out the sun." should not be returned to as 4 quasit like extra planars and a few low hp creatures bumbling about. Emphasize things as they are, and try to keep to what you've cued. Better to shoot under need to pull the numbers up than the other way around. If they find a abandoned farm inhabited by three zombies they'll think it cake and approach. Then you can add more in as they venture in. Overstating the number though makes you look like an ass when they venture in and don't find many at all.
@8:49 4e is fine : az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/09/28/6361063492191613831337431414_maxresdefault.jpg
Everything is fine. Just splendid. It's going well.
The 'Say Yes' goes for actions characters want to pull off ingame. Not for stuff the players want or for changing rules or whatever.
And like every advise concerning human interaction - it doesn't work in extreme cases. Say yes works until it doesn't work anymore.
So essential it means - be open to your players ideas and don't block everything you didn't think of by yourself.
I like your guys' content. Very happy to see this stuff and I look forward to watching all your videos. Feedback: is the guy on my right reading off a script from underneath the camera? That's what it looks like. It doesn't look like he's addressing the camera, which is distracting.
My players are new to D&D but I try to give them as many options as possible to solve a problem but also leave a trail of "breadcrumbs" incase they get stuck. They seem to have realised that following the breadcrumbs I set out for them will lead them through some difficulty. For example I give them an obvious front door and they check if there is a backdoor(if the answer is too obvious it probably is the most difficult way). I think of at least 3 ways I could solve the problem before giving it to the players to figgure out. If they miss something I put a lot of thought like the amazing trap I set for them because they took another way I don't worry about it, this is just another thing thst can be inserted into anorther adventure. Important rule to keep it fun: don't fret over the things the party does not find this time since there will always be opportunities to reuse them later meaning easier preparation for next time and more Easter Eggs to be found. I love it when players come up with ways to solve a problem that I never thought of. I gave my players a cemetery where the villain used a magical lock on the gate making it hard to get in. After discovering climbing the fence was too difficult and risky since there are spikes on the top and since they already saw zombies gutting themselves to get over one player asked if they could dig under the fence, I asked if they had a shovel and yes they did so they got around the problem in a way I did not think of(there was a small gap in part of the fence which they would have found if they walked around the cemetery perimiter as well I considered making it easier to climb if they used a rope or made use of one of the nearby trees to get in).
I try to keep my DMing like taking my dogs to a dog park. They got a big ol' area to explore and meet other dogs. They have free reign in that area to do what they will, but they are still more or less confined to the area that I see fit. Not to say it's like "You hit an invisible wall" but it's more like as soon they leave the fenced area a leash is suddenly attached to them and they feel the need to come back to what they were doing.... this analogy got really out of hand, but I'm sure you more or less get the idea of what I'm trying to say.
Its always a railroad... but the tracks are rubber.
A DM can only prepare so much. The only defense vs players running ff in an unexpected direction is... somehow that quest they were going to avoid ends up in their path anyway.
It looks like they have free will to go east instead of west, but the ruins somehow show up on the hill to the east.
I would absolutely _love_ subtitles on your videos :)
This may sound very strange, but I used to attend something called Mathnasium (a sort of tutoring center focused on math) and one of the tutors there looked and sounded just like Mike.
Damn, I've been found out! It's true, in addition to being on the internet, I have a day job where I use dice to teach math (on RUclips though, you don't have to call me "Mr." Mike.)
in my last group, half the time when the players came up with a plan, my response was more often "you want to do what?" or "why would you do that?" like "you're wearing banded armor why do you want to SWIM out to the ship?"
There's a slight difference between a _bad choice_ and a _stupid idea_ ;) . "Consequences" should be the keyword for players' actions whenever you say "yes." Although it's difficult to make them not sound as "punishments" sometimes. Especially when said player do not understand that murdering the King will not automatically make him the new King :( .
oh there are always consequences. drowning in the case of the banded armor. dissolving in the case of trying to swim through black pudding. watching all their possessions burn in the crash of their airship when the same player decided to rework the engine when he found out how much the crystals keeping their ship airborne were worth...
what if they try to cast something, that doesnt even exist, or have a trait, that doesnt even exist, then do you say yes
I think the "Saying Yes" thing is related to ingame-actions of characters
"Can I slide down the wall of the crumbling and leaning tower on my shield?"
"Can I try to scale the giant spider and attack her back?"
"Can I jump down from the ledge upon the unsuspecting goblin?"
Things like that.
Invoking new rules or game-effects don't fall in this.
At the moment I'm planing out a game (first time dming) and I'm starting the story with a little prologue a few character choices then they talk to the main villain who then causes the players to black out (magically) because the players failed to retrieve an artefact. Then they wake up in a dungeon that the villain took them too but the villain looks like he left in a hurry after they brake out and get some weapons and armour (suited to there characters) they fight a few enemies they find a chest containing two potions 1. A golden one -3 health 2. A green one +1 to any of there stats and a book that cannot be opened (this will affect the game later) this is only a simplified version of it (and just the start) but does it sound okay so far?
Basically a nice idea.
Ther might be a problem with the 'Villain makes them black out with magic'. Some might see this as railroading, because they can't avoid this, regardless of how clever / paranoid they are.
What are you going to do, if the players refuse to talk to the baddie, or have exceptional luck with their saving throws?
Might poisoned drinks be the better option? (if they fail to check them and drink them, it feels less like an unneccessary punishment of the GM but as fail on their side and therefor less railroady)
I would be careful with potions that boost stats.
And instead of making that book unable to open (trust me, your players will do many things to open this book) make it hard to read, longwinded in a strange language, or maybe even in different languages.
Give them some meat to slash their teeth into. A short excerpt of the book as a handout (from the readable part) maybe even something useful.
It sounds a fair bit like the intro to Baldur’s Gate 2 but I like it. I agree with Robert about the book although I might have it that the words: slide of the page, move about, change every time the book is opened, etc just to give the characters something to puzzle at.
What if one of my players, playing a teiflying, wants to cut off their tail?
Then he or she will have a difficult time to keep balance... If the character brings him or herself to actually doing it.
This is extraneous but I noticed the Planescape adventure module in the background. Is there a particular module from that setting you would recommend?
The Great Modron March, Dead Gods, and Tales From The Infinite Staircase are all great. That particular module on our wall, The Deva Spark, is kinda shitty and I wouldn't recommend getting it.
I'm planning on running a 5E Planescape campaign in a few months. Are there any other source materials you would recommend for the setting?
Get on our Patreon (the $1 tier is fine for this, link here: www.patreon.com/user?u=3009550) and download Dark Matter. It'll still in-progress, but we've got all the mechanics there -- space combat, high-tech, and high magic; the works.
I would advise you look at Uncaged- Faces of Sigil and the Factol's Manisfesto
Speaking of Planescape adventures, they are the among the worst modules ever written.. they are extreme examples of railroading adventures.as players are treated as spectators rather than participants and the outcome is predetermined for the most part regardless of what the players do or didn't do. The Deva Spark is really a piece of crap. Going through the module, you realize there is really no reason for the players be involved at all.
The players should not be asking whether they can do something. They should simply declare what they are doing. If this goes against in-character common sense, the DM is at liberty to give a warning of (what should be) obvious consequences. Otherwise the PC's will simply be told whether they succeed or fail based on the dice.
Are quick time events a thing?
To a certain degree, yes.
Tabletop RPG doesn't work with real reflexes however. But you could play short scenes or sequences in combat time and let them work from there.
Whenever there is the question "Are the players able to do something in a limited timeframe"
"Are the players able to pick the lock, open the door silently and slide in, closing the door again in the 5 or 6 rounds the guards need before they reach the corner?"
"Can the players defuse the bomb in 10 rounds?"
Things like this for example.
The rule actually is "Say Yes or Roll the Dice" and it's taken from the notorious RPG "Dogs in the Vineyard"
These are my rules on GMing, and may or may not apply to anyone.. but I found these work for me.
Rule 0: Are the players having fun? Does an action sound like it could be fun? If so, roll with it.
Rule 1: Check the ego at the door. It's not my game, it's a game I'm running for the players.
Rule 2: Try not to say yes or no to a player, but "you can try." and have them roll/describe the attempt. (Unless their attempt makes sense only to them then it's probably not doable or a good idea...)
Rule 3: The character's story trumps the GM's story, so the GM's story should revolve around that. However, don't offer easy solutions, make players work for it. The best flavor for victory is the effort to make it happen.
Rule 4: Think ahead, but not too far. What the player focuses on should be where the GM goes first. And when lost, offer paths and options for them to follow up on, or remind them about story leads...
Rule 5: WRITE it down! Victories, defeats, the odd quip, the person they insulted.. it's all fuel for story ideas. Make it come back on them 10 fold. Nothing makes a NPC more memorable than when that NPC remembers the PC's first, and proves it.
Rule 6: Even idle RP is fuel for more ideas.
Rule 7: Don't punish mistakes out of game, but in game. Bashing a door in when stealth was the better option, the goblins may have ran to tell their fellows.. especially when it took three tries to bring the door down.
I needed this video to send to my dm. I'm rather new in DnD, but have played and DMed other kinds of RPGs for years, so my strength as player and my character's strength is not in knowing and being able to exploit the rules, but rather role playing and creative solutions. Sadly, these ideas never get rewarded, even if I ace all my rolls, because my DM railroads so much.
As my preferred GMing style is actually mixing what I see as the best aspects of both railroading and sandboxing, my current approach to session prepping is:
- *Choose a central theme:* Although RPG is a game genre with the principle of collaborative storytelling at its core, the players will feel at loss if they don't know what they are supposed to do. So, for each session, I choose a theme/fact/event to build the adventure around. The players will be more likely to play an adventure if they spawned its seed themselves (invest in previous players' choices). Whenever possible, I pick the adventure's theme from the players' goals and/or deeds whilst weaving my campaign setting into it to also achieve my own expectations (the DM/GM is a player too ;) !).
- *Events, not scenes:* If your adventure _must_ have key moments (and most likely will), you should elaborate the _general idea_ of said events, and not how they should unfold. That allows the players to approach the situation as they see fit (allowing them agency and input), whilst you can adjust things on the fly (and get more ideas from the players). I usually come to a session with a few things in mind. Mostly the beginning of the adventure and 3~5 bullet points.
- *Cast and scenery:* Write down the very essential informations (only the very essential) about key characters and places that will most likely appear throughout the adventure. Despite improvisation being essential, being preppered is always helpful. Prep in advance what you'll not improvise. It's important to _know and understand_ the topic of which you're going to talk about _before_ actually talking. Improvisation _must_ be balanced with _notes_ so you don't turn your omelet into scrambled eggs ;) .
That's pretty much what works for me. I hope anyone find that useful, as an addition to what the fellas presented us :) !
Corvinus
You seem familiar... Hmmm...
I'm getting flashbacks... As if my thoughts are being Reformed(tm)...
my favorite escape hatch for a major villain in a fight outside is a Nightmare. Ethereal stride anybody?
Can you do a video with d&d science fiction instead of fantasy
My players succeeded at befriending a bugbear and were invited to eat goblin stew. :D
I write about an hour or two of adventuring (we meet often, just not for long), then write more based on their choices
How should a player confront their DM about railroading or other DM extremes.
I think u should come clean. Tell him "I'd like to have more options or to feel like I have a say on the histpry going"
icy arthur tell them if you have problems i will fix as soon as possible if your annoyed
It is one thing to get a group together but trying to find a good DM is where many players get frustrated. And what I mean by a good DM is someone who wont put the players on rails, who wont let their buddy (who is 2 or 3 levels higher then the PC's) do all the killing and talking and the rest of the players sit around for thee or four hours doing nothing. I consider myself a great DM, I have been running three groups for the last three months with out much problems. Of course I as the DM severely restrict Alignments to Good only, no chaotic stupid (neutral) , no Dragonborne or tieflings, nor any Warlocks, both races and classes do not jive in my Greyhawk campaign. Granted it does restrict the players on choices but it also has a certain party Harmony which I think goes a long way to Campaign longevity.
Railroading one's party is not the way of a true Copper Dragon. The best cure is prevention. Thank you for the vid.
even open world video games are still contained within their sandboxes.
its my first experience making a story as a dm, and my players first experience at dnd, the story is based on the warlock's patron wants the party to kill a brass dragon at the 7th hell, how can i not railroad, i want them to have a amazing introduction do tabletop rpg, and railroading makes the game unfun to the players. How can i make the story without railroading
I've never had an issue with Railroading but my god this channel was too great not to subscribe. As a DM though I can say the best way to kick railroading to the curb is to not use a premade adventure. I had an exalted game go awful because someone killed one of the premade characters. We were disappointed because the DM we had was generally an improvisational type. Premade adventures are good but be wary as they can hold some people back.
You need to tweak and alter premade adventures to fit your party. There is not much less work in preparing a premade adventure and making one of your own.
Though, you have a nice base to work from.
Okay so I'm a young dm'r, male 13, and I play dnd with my friends and brothers. Getting money to build and craft a tabletop board game isn't the easiest so I was wondering is there anyway I can make a good session but without the board at all? If so how can I do this?
Also, I love dming but I tend to always put my players against units to strong or to weak, is there any monsters that are good for levels 1-3 and then 4-6? Usually by the 6 mark I just do whatever because my players play paladins and barbarians a lot so I just do whatever because after that it's a continuous challenge for them.
P.S. Is there anyway you can sort of railroad a story yet make the story very interesting and entertaining? If so how lol
If you need a board, you can make do with 1 in. graph paper. The squares of this paper are the same size as one from a board.
The board isn't really necessary
All you need is blank paper and a few (eventually colored) pencils / markers. Bigger sheets are better, so maybe fetch 11.7 by 16.5 inch papers (A3).
If you need figurines - you'll find plenty cardbord-miniatures in the internet or draw them yourself. It's the most handily way and much cheaper then buying lead-minis.
Balancing challanges is a skill that comes with experience. It's better to err on the lower end. An easy challenge may not be as compelling, but a too hard challenge kills of your players characters and is more frustrating.
When railroading - and you probably can't avoid it everytime (some things need to happen to have an adventure), try to disguise it.
Small example from another video (can't remember who it was...)
Heroes are on Planet A - the adventure is on planet B (or city or whatever).
*Bad way:*
Player: "Hey GM - are there any ships in the port travelling away from here?"
GM: "There's only a ship travelling to Planet B."
Player: "Oh - nooo, I hate Planet B. Is there no other option?"
GM: "Nope."
*Good way:*
Player: "Hey GM are there any ships in the port travelling away from here?"
GM "There are three ships at the moment. One goes to World F, the next one to World X and the third one to World Q. The ship to world F seems a bit... rustic, but it is the cheapes flight you might get."
Player: "Awesome! I always wanted to go to world F! Let's take this one!"
Later, the ship get's attacked by vicious space pirates. After a heroic battle, the players manage to fend them of along the crew.
GM: "You did well the captain is thankful. But, alas, the machines are damaged. You need to land somewhere for repairs. The next habitable world is World B - but in a few days you might continue with the flight."
What happened?
First the players had the illusion of choice. Regardless of which ship they had taken, the pirates would have attacked and damaged the ship so it had to land on the world, where your actual adventure starts...
Second - knowing the players would like to visit world F - you have a good clue where to place the next adventure.
Keep up the good work guys! And DFTBA!
Should I be worried that I initially read that as 'DTMFA'? So confused for a moment there...
Noticeable railroading (the real problem here) is usually noticeable because you plan the solution of the adventure.
As DM, you should plan the problem of the adventure, not the solution. If a PC's solution might work (even if that chance seems minute!), die roll.
It's that simple really.
Haha the whole yes doctor thing reminds me of one of my first dm’ing experiences! One of my players asked if they could (yes im not joking this was the first question asked) f*k a dead horse (phendelver if youre familiar) and so I said make a performance check not wanting to say uh no. And low and behold he nat 20’d f*king a dead horse, long story short he received a “wand” of resErection.... >.> -.- XD
question: my friend said he wanted to open an multi-dimensional portal and videochat with elvin belly button lint, can i say no to that?
Yes.
theorderofthenerd he would need to single handedly create modern technology, get a modern understanding of physics, then from there understand magic, the planes, prototype all the shit, actually open the portal and then also create the internet. Maybe if he does an entire campaign worth of work or 100 nat 20s he may be able to pull it off.
The rule of 'Yes' has it's limits.
You may allow many things, strange things, cinematic things.
But depending on the campaign played, the groups playstyle and the tone at the table, there are things, that are just off limits.
And your responsibility as a GM is to make that clear.
theorderofthenerd no
Pretend to roll off random tables, much lulz.
This is always fun. XD
I love doing that. For a short campaign (4 sessions, really good break between big campaigns), I have a player roll a d12. No matter the number they roll, I tell them they avoided a random attack with this or that monster. I never actually want them to fight a random adventure, I just wanted to show a bit more of the world and its dangers. Naturally, this won't work if you repeatedly do it with the same players, but I find the extra level of deception helps drive home the scary reality of the world.
The party is getting bored? Roll something and chuckle. Make eye contact with the firs player to notice. Smile fakely.
I try to remind GMs who struggle with the polarity of railroading versus sandbox, is there is nothing wrong with knowing a chain of events, but what should be most important, that you guys touched on is open ended problems, but also presenting players choices. If one major choice is resolved every game, say for example, "Do you head to Mordor, or do you rescue your Hobbit companions?" the mission may be "Destroy the One Ring" but, if as GM you take the steps just one ahead of your players at a time, your story can stay structured, but won't become a "railroad". The douchey NPC Boromir may inevitably try to take the Ring, but the ripples of that event can create choice. Just don't split the party.
Also, Mike, are we sure Matt Colville hasn't trademarked "Doobly-Doo"?
Make the full world ahead of time start them in a city or different areas and let the wander to the points they want to wander and let them make the story as they go letting them lead themselves
thanks
What if my players say they want to kill each other? They've said this before, and I said no
I dont say yes, I say "you can certainly try"
Im gonna make a campaign where rocks fall and everyone dies.
I wasn't a railroader, but good God I was an OVer-open-worlder, had to stare at my group as they were paralyzed with indecision.
Don't know if you've done this already, but it would be quite helpful if you produced a guide to Low Magic Campaigns with all the different options available, or maybe even make a full Low magic Campaign.
What i mean is either outline the options (Sword and Sorcery, only Warlocks, One god, rae magic items etc etc), or create a low magic campaign with decisions already taken for players to play in.
Just made a reddit post which may explain it better ! - www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/723w5p/help_and_advice_with_lowmagic_campaigns_in_5e/
It's just very difficult to create a cohesive and playable DnD 5e Low Magic campaign as magic is pervasive. I really don't like taht there are Wizards / Sorcerors / bards / Warlocks. I'd rather just have Wizards for example and have other magic used by 'villains' or not used at all in that world.
great channel and website though thks guys.
He said your on the right TRACK. eh get it
I'm about to DM for the first time but I know I'm going to have to deal with new players and someone who likes to fuck with stuff for no good reason. What the fuck do I do? I don't want to railroad but the fucker might ruin the experience for everyone.
Adaptation and flexibility are the keys to not being a conductor. It takes practice of course. From my own experience... try running a game for a bunch of 8-10 year olds... and put their happiness above yours for the session. Kids are completely unbeholden to any pre-existing expectations, so you will never be able to keep them on the rails to begin with. And unless you simply don't care about making kids sad and grumpy (in which case, you have other issues), I guarantee you will get better at letting players take the lead and drive the narrative, forcing you to take a more reactive role, while still running an entertaining game.
You should get some women's slacks! Also great tips
Hey i posted a comment about how to get/make decent potion bottle on your guys video of the five worst types of player i recommend you check it out, it would probably cost less than 30 bucks
Simple, make a map and let the players go in it.
Am I still supposed to let a chaotic stupid character cut off npc's fingers
You know, there is a town-guard. And they might have a wizard with some 'hold person'-spell.
As long as your characters are no walking gods, chances are, that they are not the only ones, roaming the lands. Chances are, other higher-level ruffians plague the land and some cities might have found solutions for this.
Or even let a 'real' hero-party chase after them for torturing and killing innocents.
It's all about consequences.
Saying yes to players ideas, doesn't mean they automatically succeed.
And for your chaotic-stupid murder-hobo characters - I've seen a video about exactly this problem... you might just search here for "why are my players murder hobos". It has some really interesting points in it.
could you stop that... these pauses between your textes are so iritating (0:30) for example
Am I the only one that things 'jobs board' is stupid and that making fetch-quests in something that isn't pre-scripted is also kind of boring? Is it just me? These things are done in video games in light of the difficulties in making more free-form things. One would think that side quests would or should crop up as more 'natural' features of a main driving story.
I think the question is how you approach the side-quests.
A simple WOW-like fetch quest ("Get me 20 candles, that for an odd reason only grow on some cave-dweller helmets") is stupid and boring. That's right.
But actually make some random (as in, they don't tie in the campaigns meta-plot) quests who actually fill an evening.
Let the simple wolf hunt reveal, that some crazy human-hunting cultists live in the woods.
The letter delivery leads in a cursed village.
The 'Fetch ingredients' might lead to a mushroom ring and a fairy-dimension...
The lost daughter went to that strange house, that only appears every 20 years for 3 days and then vanishes again...
Keep those linear and closed.
You can get back to your actual adventure the next time - and the players will thank you for this liberty.
I think if its something that could be done by five farmers and their children it shouldn't be forced upon your adventurers as if its some epic thing. You are playing as a band of literal heroes, not some dude who has the day off work and wants to help out town.
Instead of a wolf hunt why not a suspected werewolf?
Instead of bandit attacks on a massive city why not a criminal ring that has infiltrated the guard?
Instead of delivering Farmer Molly's Pizza, why not be entrusted to deliver - in a ritualistic fashion - a divine instrument that ends up being a cursed item?
I think there is little excuse for making your party do mundane things simply because its 'tradition' - unless that is what they choose to do with their time. I also like the idea of making everything be very flexible. So instead of having the Puffin problem where the players 'miss content' - just...change the content. If you have an idea tied to a thing, but your players have a different direction they are going - find some creative way to work the things into that direction.
Also I should mention that I don't like how a lot of these people that make dm help videos seem to think the point of dnd should be to make players not want to play. Working to kill them, only cheating in the favor of their enemies, curbing any attempt of any of them to have a chance to actually have fun and working towards the goal of having a tpk.
Chris Fox:
I think the idea of a hero is not the guy who slays the dragon / kills the demi-lich and frees the realms of the utmost terrors.
Heroes are the guys who help the people.
And I think further, that players every now and then might like a break form saving the world.
Side quests are exactly this - opportunities to be heroes on a smaller scale.
Yes 5 peasants might kill the bear or the wolfpack in the woods. But two of them might get injured or killed in the process.
You helping them out saves their lives and the existence of their families.
Just because it's not epic, doesn't mean it's not heroic.
Then again things like the job-board are not forced on the players - it's up to them to take a little vacation from the big evils of the world or not.
And this goes for higher level characters - if you start on lvl 1 you are not the world shaking hero, you don't have the abilities to fight the big evils.
But a pack of goblins harrassing the farmers on the outskirts of the realm you live in, might exactly be your shoe-size.
I give you, however, that your epic lvl 20 characters maybe don't get much of a challenge from 5 wolves and 3 goblins...
To your second point about how DM-helper videos are about how to harm characters and such:
I don't know what kind of videos you watched, but from my experience it's mostly about challenge the characters and sometimes challenge the players.
Yes GMs fudge dice, yes they hit the weak-spots of the heroes or throw them in situations they can't just resolve with a few high powered skills.
Eeasy victories taste stall, too easy victories are tasteles and boring.
Ask yourself: What kind of adventure do you want to have? One that is hardly a problem for the skillset of your character, a few lame combat-encounters, barely worth noticing and some kind of villain-of-the-week you need about twice as much combat rounds as for his last batch of minions?
Or that kind of teeth-gritting murderous challange, all odds against you and your fellows, the trusted NPC stabbing your back when least expected, but still you manage to survive and even better, to stop the big threat in a last epic confrontation, where you're able to turn the page at the last chance?
(And if that - how soothing might some less epic adventure for the next evening sound like?)
In real life yes - but then 99.99% of the DnD rules would have to be thrown out since its a game about the more 'fantasy' definition of hero.
Not many people are going to want to play a game of DnD about being a single mother who works three jobs to ensure her children can go to school, though arguably that is more heroic than slaying a dragon. Right?
And, maybe I wasn't explaining myself correctly. I didn't mention challenge at all in my comment. Trying to challenge your players is one thing, working towards their failure is another. Most GMs I watch suggest as such as talk with glee about their players failing or not being able to get past an obstacle. People don't play to be beaten down most of the time, that is why 'rogue-like' is a niche genre, and it makes the game not fun when your GM's goal is not to tell a story but to make you lose. When it becomes GM vs Players, it becomes the GM's fun vs the Player's fun - unless you are playing with players that get enjoyment out of failing. The sorts of GMs I listened to, as I mentioned, did videos about 'fudging' dice - stating that you should only do it in order to screw over your players and never to help them, and in fact you should actually actively work towards making the enemies do more damage or hit when they should miss or do less. I think that is absurd, it doesn't make people feel triumphant when their character dies, people DO want to get past a challenge against all odds yes, but they can't do that when you don't let them, can they?
I did give Mercer a hard time because so many people I tried playing with refused to play because the GM wouldn't act like him - but at least he has a rather good way of GMing. He helps his players succeed, he lets them find ways to get past obstacles, he gives them a challenge without beating them down, and his goal isn't to destroy them. You should scale things to your players, but remember that the players are playing the game, not that goblin that you just wrote down on a sticky note for a random encounter.
I never mentioned to 'stop' heroing alltogether and play something ordinary.
I just pondered about that sometimes, if the players are up to, a less world-shaking challenge might be an interesting break from the hero-business as usual.
And second - where did you get the impression, that all or most gm-helper videos encourage destroying the players fun?
Oh and, don't confuse the players fun with the characters fun. That are two complete different things.
In my Call of Cthulhu campaign, the characters suffer a lot and are often confronted with challenges, they can't overcome by directly attacking it.
But the players however, love every minute of it.
I know, it's another genre and played in a different way.
Third I want to mention that rules are nothing more then a vehicle to transport an adventure. They are kind of the interface that allows players to interact with the game-world.
But they have to do very little with the role-playing aspect of a role-playing-game.
Think of it - in this regard - as an programming langugage. It enables you to do stuff and maybe restricts you in some way. But what you do with it, is up to you.
my suggestion: don't read the script. Improvise and edit later, it's better.
I am charlie awesome
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