Could Ferenginar Join the UFP?
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2023
- Lower Decks just dropped a large lore implication into the Federation and Star Trek universe as a whole, the potential admission of the Ferengi into the United Federation of Planets. We already saw Nog pave the way for Starfleet membership, but Grand Nagus Rom seems intent on bringing the Alliance into the UFP too, so let's examine.
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I think turning the Federation from a customer to a product would be the most Ferengi thing imaginable.
Why fear root beer when you can monetize it?
@@beren082came here to say this. XD
Whenever I think about the Ferengi joining the Federation in numbers I think about the episode where Nog had to get a specific part and had to make all sorts of back alley deals to do it, it got Chief O’brian into a lot of trouble. So the Ferengi Quartermaster core is born. Taking one of the most efficient Logistics trains in galactic history, the Federations, tossing it aside as if it is a decade behind the times, and implementing a system that allows the Federation to rebuild in a fraction of the time it took any other Power in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
Who would have thought that self-sealing stem-bolts would be the running gag that episode started?
and the federation sailing on the great material continuum
@@andneekeynow you're talking!
Just proves that the Federation's logistics aren't so efficient, after all.
One thing you might not have considered is how popular the membership would be with the large chunk of Ferengi population that doesn’t have the lobes or the desire to chase profit. Highly intelligent Ferengi engineers and scientists will likely flock to starfleet and other member worlds to escape the burdens of not being able to easily subsist in a culture where money is everything. Ferengi women who need to flee traditional culture in their families will find acceptance more readily. I think that Ferengi could very well end up being a major component of starfleet pretty shortly after this episode.
Thats only if Ferengi never reformed their culture and laws, and Nog is definitely reforming the society.
@JoeBoxr not only the Ferengi. Think of how many business savy humans there are who would love to work with the ferengi. Finally they can use and hone their mercantile skills in an enviroment that encourges and even celebrates commerce.
Always love a good redemption arc.
Always love seeing a good heel-face turn.
Good on Rom and Ferenginar!
Rom and Nog show how Ferengi ability and know-how could be applied to other fields, not traditionally considered as Ferengi specialties. Rom has both ruled well together with others, and come up with engineering solutions to bad situations, like his self-replicating mines. Nog, meanwhile, became an accomplished Starfleet officer, with the willingness to take actions that some officers might try to avoid, and I especially like his depiction as captain of _USS Chimera_ , as he's also not afraid to use his status as Grand Nagus Rom's son to get the job done. And I miss him terribly in the newer missions in _STO_ .
Don't forget Nog also beat the Kobayashi Maru.
I think Nog in his old age would try to reform the Ferengi Tade Fleet into a more use ful tool for Rom. Training them up to a skill level closer that of Starfleet, Rarther than a bunch of bearly trained pirate ships. A few years before he became Grand Nagus Nog.
I hope we get a "canon" coda that Nog died of extreme old age-I feel like the closest we've come to post-DS9 canon was the "Season 8" workshop in _What We Left Behind_ which struck him down in his prime.
I bet the Ferengi Trade Fleet functionally merged with starfleet and Nog helped a lot with that whole process, earning him a ship named after him a thousand years later
I believe since Aron Eisenberg died at 50, It would make sense Nog did too, Unless they find another actor to play him.
@@ericdunn7352 No. No successor. The role was his. 50 is about right.
@@ericdunn7352
Before that happened, I was really hoping to see Captain Nog as CO of the California class USS Commerce.
Well, it could happen
It's a good option for members of Ferengi who don't have the lobes for business
I'm quite happy that LD has further developed Ferengis as primary character species. Their portrayals started out rough, considering they were supposed to be the' new big bads' after the Klingons. I remember as a kid thinking they were some kind of rat creatures with bums for foreheads. And they behaved like literal a-holes lol Credit to Shimerman & Grodénchik and late Eisenberg (and all actors playing Ferengis) to really give nuance to their species. Now in Universe you've pretty much summed up on how I see the benefits of them joining. Sometimes new species won't play nice unless an advantageous trade is involved, a Ferengi diplomat batting for your team can make a difference.
I think another value that Rom brings to the Ferengi is he has a lot of outside perspective with his time on DS9 seeing how all the other powers worked together and that they truly needed each other to overcome the dominion rather than having an solely Ferengi centric view
Quark being the Ferengi ambassador to the UFP would be amazing.
And this would also explain why the Ferengi are a playable Starfleet race in Star Trek Online.
If, by 2409, Ferenginar is an established member of the Federation, it stands to reason that more Ferengi would choose to join Starfleet.
Just think about how useful a "ethical" Ferengi crewmember would have been to Voyager in the Delta Quadrant.
Morn would become an honorary member of the Ferengi delegation due to his massive contribution of credits and gold-pressed latinum over the years.
In Discovery, the Ferengi do appear to be members of the Federation. So I do think the Lower Decks episode IS the start towards that.
Discovery isn't canon though so 🤷
@@topogigio7031 as much as i dislike the show, nobody here (that includes me or you) get to decide what is and isnt canon. You can headcanon that discovery never happened, but that's all that will be- a headcanon.
@@topogigio7031 It is though. You just don't like it. Those are two different things.
@@topogigio7031 Discovery is canon, there's not much else to say there.
@@thegoose1005 It's sad how delusional you Posers are
Given the casualness w/ which “Lower Decks” applies to canon, the absence of a Council member/advocate, and the modesty of the ships the Federation sent to Ferenginar, I speculate the treaty they eventually sign is more a defense pact
I hope Humanity ends up more like the Federation but I sadly really believe we will end up much closer to the Ferengi.
Honestly the federation still have flaws and in lore it took WW3 and someone else helping to pick up humanity to become what it did in trek. Correction WW3 destroying most of the nations and humankind having to rebuild that lead to the federation.
Depends on the faction. Eventually a Human diaspora will have many different ways of life. I just hope when we get out there they're all good ones.
I'm basically staring down either a Ferenginar/Cardassia hybrid or a Faro Plague scenario with a Project Zero Dawn analog _extremely_ fucking optional...
@@seand.g423 Essentially that's how we already are.
@@Longshot441 which one? Because at least the Faro Plague would be _remotely_ fucking honest...
The Federation does not use currency, but some of its member worlds do. Boleus has a very famous bank. We’ve also heard canon references to “transporter credits” being given to Starfleet cadets, which indicates a cultural concept of apportioning access limited resources using a currency like instrument. Rodenbury never could explain how the moneyless society of his future utopia worked beyond stating that citizens were provided with their basic needs and follow their own passions when producing goods or providing services. My own take is that there is no centrally issued and controlled currency, but there could be any number of currency like instruments at work. For example: A dilithium mining corporation may trade for resources using certificates of its own issuance backed by its expected dilithium output.
the description given, is that, at least on major Federation worlds, there is an effectively infinite and unrestricted amount of every resource you could need as a person...
(this goes for the basic needs, but also, for most secondary, industrial needs, such as furniture or a tool [through industrial replicators])
for something very rare or big/expensive objects, something needed say for a research project, or to found a certain new industry, there is an allocation system, mostly based on how connected a person is...
on a lower level, same goes for private space ships, estates or interstellar travel... the ability to inquire that are interpersonal politics, most just need to ask someone for a favor.... the higher rank you are, the more chance you have to get it
Essentially hyper capitalism. It’s really the only way Star Trek’s economics make sense.
A lingering issue for me is, white would anyone want to be a server in the Sisko family restaurant?
It seems to be that valuable items and resources can be bartered - and no doubt there are banks and exchange rates in place, to ensure that such things are appropriately valued - but a typical Federation citizen will accrue that value to their personal worth, only really as much as would afford them some reasonable nest-egg; a small starship, or a retirement fund, for example. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if building up a fund on which to enjoy one’s retirement is a key, albeit generally automated part, of the consumer economy in the Federation. Joseph Sisko, for example, runs a restaurant without any *visible* trade of currency taking place. But it’s probably understood that he earns a portion of monetary reserves from the United Earth / Federation governments, that would give him or his descendants the equivalent value of perhaps two New Orleans restaurants, or some other equitable outcome, once he decides to stop running his current business.
What I’m saying is - Most day-to-day consumer transactions in the Federation economy, from at least the 24th century onwards, seem to be managed with a degree of automation, to the point where anyone can live in marginal luxury. How much a person meets their basic needs, plus a little extra, isn’t subjected to much scrutiny; although granted, where we have cards and digitised bank balances in our present day to regulate people’s spending habits, the Federation has entire integrated computer systems to do the exact same, and an individual might face limits on some of their uses of energy or consumables, if found to be in unreasonable excess - although these “over-spends” could also simply be remedied with a referral to a counsellor or therapist. And while some might view that as authoritarian in itself, you have to consider - if a person is going to over-use one thing, to the point where computer systems may have to forcibly limit their use, it’s obvious that the next avenue they’d likely turn to in order to perpetuate their habit, would be crime. So supporting a person to prevent their most toxic consumption habits, is a prudent form of crime prevention.
Beyond this, what most UFP citizens can then expect beyond a good standard of living, is some standard of “Saved Equity”, built up from their work life. And this is likely the foundation of any differential economy in the UFP. A scientist and low-ranking Starfleet officer can both expect to retire on some luxury - perhaps a small apartment on Risa. A Starfleet captain, or successful businessperson who pays all their taxes, can both expect to retire in considerably more luxury. For an admiral or interstellar business CEO, retirement probably gives them the quadrant as their oyster, near enough. But we should also remember, much of the Federation economy likely functions on gifting. Compassion and generosity are learned from an early age, so even those with the biggest “equity portfolio” probably give away a lot of what they don’t need. These can be offered as foundational funds, scholarships to Starfleet cadets, hardship assistance as another automated part of the digitised economy, and even support funds to help colonies and distant worlds. It’s a model in which prosperity grows more prosperity, because one’s personal worth isn’t something that one is forced to fall back on, when there’s little danger of an individual living beyond their means. Nobody makes a fortune overnight, but when economic automation is so good at looking after everyone, no-one ever really needs to make a fortune in their entire lifetime.
@@christophernemeth421 it’s a LARP. Even today one could argue that any boutique restaurant is an archaic institution which engages in a form of performance art. Waiters may take pride in contributing to the performance or do so in exchange for the promise of personal training as a chef. People would volunteer for it for the same reason they volunteer for community theatre.
I’d hope so given the point of Trek but they’d have to radically reorder their society even beyond what we’d seen of Rom’s reforms.
Why do you think that? Rom brought the civil rights required there are no laws in the federation requiring members forgo private property rights, etc. The Fereangi after Rom are VERY compatible with the federatino.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusketagreed the point of the federation is to have equal freedoms for members and to be a mixing pot of cultures
The founding ideal of the Federation is cultural autonomy not political, social or economic egalitarianism. The Ferengi might chafe at the restrictions the Federation would place on their trade with pre-warp societies or rival powers, but they aren’t automatically incompatible with the Federation itself.
If we are talking Lower Decks I haven't seen the last episode. If we are talking DS9 and some other stuff, they still had significant work to do.@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket
When did rom become the nagus. I don't remember this at all
It would be really interesting if they did fulfil the contract seen in LD & the UFP have to let then join
(Edited to correct typo)
Troy?
Did you mean Q'nos, the Klingon Homeworld?
@@Essex121514 sorry, typo. I’m on some *very* strong painkillers at the moment
Getting the Klingon Empire to join would have only netted Ferenginar the billion latinum bonus and any of the concessions the admiral agreed to...if that contract had been signed. Rom signed the standard contract for Federation membership application because Freeman showed there were Federation and Starfleet personnel who understood the Ferengi culture and could work alongside it to create a mutually beneficial deal.😊
On Ferengi Females and Clothing: Although it was never mentioned, wouldn't you think that , because the 'normal' dress state of women is nude, that a Male would thus find women wearing clothing to be more attractive?
Its like with modern day humans who would be attracted to the female form, the less clothing you are wearing, the more sexually attractive that person may be.
I could see Ferengi culture appreciating women who dress 'Victorian Style', in multiple layers of clothing, practically hiding the true shape of the body beneath.
You shamelessly clothe your females, inviting others to undress them, the very depth of perversion.
_Fucking shitsake!!!_
Now I'm picturing a Ferengi Goth mag!
Replies under your comment don't load, maybe because of subject matter. But I'll try to reply.
Generally speaking (in modern day, when we don't talk about poverty etc.) clothes are used to enhance the looks. For most people it isn't exactly true that without anything you look better than with clothes (and under clothes - I write like a bot, because I'm trying not to use certain words, YT seems to be having Puritan fit). You can certainly look great, but there is a reason why clothes have design they have. So while I think your analysis isn't super wrong, I feel like it would be true only to a degree - and I don't take into consideration personal preferences, which would introduce more variability.
Maybe Rom could say that females could wear strapless bikini tops and thong bottoms as an alternative to being completely nude, Just saying.
As long as the clothes came off before the deprivation grew too great 😅
I still like the phrase, "My house is my house, as are its contents." It encapsulates both old and new Ferengi culture.
I absolutely want them to join.
In STO, they solved the issues of having Ferengi by simply waiving the "need endorsement by a officer" rule, thanks to a manpower shortage.
...To be honest, I can see the Ferengi ending up more an allied power than a part of the Federation. They'd still trade, but the Federation has too many restrictions for them..not to mention it would put a crimp on dealing with other factions, like the Klingon and Romulans.
Mebby an informal member so that the Federation can have unofficial contacts across the quadrants.
They will start out informal but eventually join. Klingons are probably on their way to joining as well.
@@volbound1700They'd hardly be Klingons any more, once they did.
@@oneproudbrowncoatfor the best the honourable warrior society things isn't really sustainable.
It would be great to see a more rounded Klingon culture.
They could and are as we know they are a member in the far future at least.
I actually really like the idea of the ferengi joining the federation before the Bajorans or Cardassians, both sides of that conflict have wounds that would be best healed by forging a more mailable sense of identity on their own. The ferengi already did just that over the course of DS9, but they still know an opportunity when they see it.
I think its great that the Ferengi can go from antagonist to potential Federation member so quickly, compared to the Klingons or Romulans. Granted, the Ferengi were never the threat the other two were, but they were still a pain to deal with for a while.
It reminds me of the Original ST When Kirk went to the mob world.
There are a lot of diverse cultures in the federation. One could only assume that there are a myriad of free trade packs inside the federation. I could see the ferengi becoming the Amazon or AliExpress with myriad of worlds that are in the Federation.
Rom is right to restrict a bunch of areas of commerce. Selling weapons is risky, same for drugs and other elicit goods.
Kind of reminds me of EvE. An mmo of hyper capitalism. You could sell anything. It is usually the most worth it to sell the basic commodities if you have a lot of capacity.
That is where I see the ferengi going.
In the books the signed the kitomer accords with cardassia and a couple of others. In the 2480s . Political alliance.
I have really mixed feelings about the Ferengi joining the Federation. On one hand, it makes them seem more noble and progressive - and less like scammy hustlers - but on the other hand, with them gone, the setting/lore really loses out on a big 'neutral' faction, which I've also always enjoyed.
Not really.
Delta Quadrant has a number of potential neutral factions.
Plus with the destruction of the Romulan Star Empire with its remaining government slowly dying away and likely a more moderate government being established its likely that the Romulans will be that neutral faction.
@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent So what you are saying is, that we'll be losing the identity of TWO factions instead? LOL
But you are right, that they can always come up with new enemies, and neutral factions too. But will those be interesting enough? Who knows.
Perhaps ferenginar could become a special administrative zone on account of its financial and trade importance
I love that scene when Quark shows up to the Klingon high council with an excel sheet on his padd. 'if you'll look at column J'... Gowron met his match that day
I said something in a video of Nog's long explanation when he borrowed Sisko's desk and Martok's bloodwine.
It's good to see that Nog's kept his Ferengi way of thinking even as a Starfleet officer. It's just that it's HERE where it's better applied, rather than the usual Ferengi way. We often respect characters in stories who can make chains and chains of negotiations to get many contacts what they need, and it would not be hard to imagine that in the future, Admiral Nog would be holding classes and training cadets on how to negotiate and barter like a Starfleet-minded Ferengi to be able to get stuff that they need for missions and whatnot.
As for Rom, given his adoration for Miles, and working closely with him, and our main Starfleet cast, I'd like to think that they are the high standard he was hoping the rest of the Federation would be able to reach, and as Freeman showed, they are capable of meeting his high standards formed by his experience with Sisko, Miles, and the friends he made on DS9.
I was annoyed at first when Rom and Leeta were acting the way they did. Loved it when it turned out to be a test
Gotta be a Pakled to not see that coming
@topogigio7031 I was just thinking that it was the writers not knowing the characters. Which, given that it is star trek, can happen
Any one else feel this Guy is the voice of Star Trek?❤
Not sure about Ferenginar outright joining the Federation, but I can definitely see them becoming close allies. Both sides have a lot to offer the other.
It’s an option but I don’t see them doing it. The Alliance could easily set up trade partnership and opportunities with the Federation without having to join them. I also imagine the Ferengi would prefer their autonomy without being drawn into the Fed’s issues. They’d be willing to help under the newly reformed leadership but would still want the option to withstain if they wish. That’s my opinion at least
So like Switzerland-European Union relations.
There are worlds that aren't UFP members but are politically affiliated with them, so this is plausible. And the Federation is generally not pushy with forcing planets to join while still giving them benefits (protection, trade, freedom of movement).
Should be noted the Federation is more like a confederated EU than the US. There is a whole track to membership. It's entirely possible that Fereginar could get about halfway into the track and then be satisfied with some level of autonomy.
I personally loved Nog's interpretation of the Great Material Continuum intersecting with the Starfleet supply chain. Looking at how the very most successful military leaders in human history were geniuses in logistics as well as strategy, I really could see Rom making Admiral. And not a run-of-the-mill "we're promoting you because you've been here so long and a good boy" admiralty either. Imagine Rom as Admiral of the Starfleet Logistics Corps. Imagine his deductive reasoning and out-of-the-box thinking in Starfleet Security. Rom was the very best possible representative of his people to serve in Starfleet and had incredible potential.
If Ferenginar's best and brightest started joining Starfleet, I think the Federation would soon become a great deal more flexible and canny in responding to galactic emergencies than it had been previously, in my opinion.
Nog will probably reform some of the ferangi fleet towards exploration, to boldly go and acquire new markets and resources.
I’d say yes. They aren’t “required” to not use money as far as I know
If The Klingons are Welcome then they are i think plus imagine the trade boom and ask for Money The Feregi will be the only ones you pay so easy trade Currency really.
Respect and keep up the epic work.
this will be a work in progress in a good way, seeing new forms of trade that Ferengi and the Federation have never had till now. Especially aiding new worlds where the civilizations have a more mercantile nature on Par to the Ferengi. Especially for Nog joining Starfleet to be the First if not the first of many or few Ferengi.
The Ferengi navy would also be a bit of a boon to Starfleet when it comes to warfare. The D'Kora class star ship, while supposedly a freighter is able to match a Galaxy class starship. In addition to that, the Ferengi seem to be adept in retrofitting wildly different alien technologies into systems they are not supposed to be compatible with.
Don't forget that Betazed has a mostly clothing free society, so in general UFP wouldn't have a problem with showing skin, it is just the "forced" restrictions on half the species which is what causes the problems with the Ferengi.
Yes, to apply.
Getting the Ferengi is a boon for the Federation if we go by Quark, Rom and Nog. Quark has the talent to get the pulse of a culture, makes a great diplomat and negotiator. Rom is an engineering genius that did not find his niche among Ferengi. Dr. Reyga was the inventor of the Metaphasic Shield. Nog has shown a talent for logistics during the Dominion War. Even got Martok his desired hard to get vintage of Bloodwine.
With Rom's family having connections to Grilka and Martok the Ferengi recruiting the Klingons into the Federation is not far fetch. The Klingons did join by the 26th century it would be hilarious if it was the Ferengi who facilitated that.
Rom is truly a pioneer for his people
They're already kind of in the UFP but it's only Quark and his family that I know of.
The Rules of Acquisition and Ferengi philosophy should be mandatory training at Starfleet academy, along with Vulcan Philosophy, mental discipline and emotional awareness and control.
When applied to other situations than business, they would equip Starfleet with versatile viewpoints to solving not only problems ..but dilemmas.
"They have weapons, you have weapons - everyone has weapons, but right now, no one has a clear advantage! *So the price of peace is at an all-time low.*
This is the perfect time to sit down and hammer out an agreement. Don't you get it? Attacking the Cardassians now will only make peace more expensive in the long run! Now, I ask you, is that logical?"
- Quark, to Sakonna (a Vulcan Marquis).
This latest development in UFP-Ferenginar relations could help advance the Federation's economic system. Credits would still be used between member worlds, but being able to use actual currency like gold-pressed latinum would make things flexible when dealing with planets outside of the Federation.
All I have to admit here is that: Playing the slow-minded and dimwitted in Negotiations to put a false sense of security on potential contractors is actually pretty genius when you think about it.
They think you’re the fool, and you can Lull them into your playing field! And it definitely worked well with “Admiral Syllables”.
Also something else that’s abundantly clear, They would do exceptionally well in the Federation! why you might ask? Because The Ferengi make exceptional diplomats, they’d do well in negotiations and can probably tell how things are going via various tells they could pick up on, Sales is a Skill that involves knowing what the person is interested in based on looks and how they respond to certain things or actions, and Diplomacy is really similar, therefore the Ferengi would be Excellent Diplomats.
Well Federation has to somehow get to a point from 150 to 350 members before the Burn in the 31st century. By that time most if not all of the major Alpha and Beta quadrant civilizations would have been part of the Federation, which includes the Ferengi. Hundreds of years have past, by that time its almost assured that the Ferengi and their culture changed to be more compatible for the Federation , and even the Federation changing to be more inclusive.
I feel that it "de-fangs" the Ferengi and adds another unique civilization to the growing pile of Starfleet background extras (At best) while watering down what made them interesting in the first place.
God, imagine if they did that to the Klingons, there'd be riots!
I desperately want to see some interactions between the Ferengi and the Pakleds.
As the Federation grows and still remains primarily with Human priorities and baggage, I wonder if later-joining members are truly getting more benefits to joining than drawbacks. Like the Borg lie of "we will add your distinctiveness to our own", does the massive and established Federation really embrace and partially adopt the unique strengths of new members?
I'd say that Lower Decks seems to indicate an increased representation by non humans (especially a notable rise in species that aren't humans with just a small dash of plastic on the head) in the fleet, buuuuuut even in that show humans make up the bulks of crews we've seen, and these crews were mainly on California class ships. Even with non humans holding high positions of authority on these ships, going so far as entire bridge crews being devoid of humans, these are unglamorous postings by being on rear line workhorses. Not exactly fast tracks to glory or history books
@@bthsr7113 from what I gather, that is mostly due to technical limitations of Star Trek TV. There are ships with more aliens but we are not shown it. We only see a few ships in the entirety of Star Trek which is not an adequate representation of all of Star Fleet. In the DS9 Baseball epsiode, there is a Vulcan crew on a Federation ship so I imagine there are Andorian, Tellarite, Betazed, Benzarite, etc. crews out there as well.
I like the idea of the Ferengi acting as a buffer between the Federation and other governments.
The Federation having the Ferengi in their corner is an understated boon. Whether by intent or due to the writing, we see that Starfleet could be better when it comes to HARD bargaining. The Ferengi would fill a glaring skill issue they've been carrying that has honestly handicapped their diplomatic efforts...since they sometimes seem to lean on the offer of "utopia" to be enough to convince a culture to join.
Their reigning in of their navel power wouldn't be too hard since it's been a long-running issue that they've lacked the will to deal with due to the lack of apparent profit. But they clearly have no love for the Ferengi, who lacked business savvy and resorted to brute force piracy because they're idiots (as we see in the early examples in TNG). Federation offering to help them clean up their pirate elements would be welcome cause it would only further improve their image.
I do like that the Ferengi reforms are based on a logic that suits their culture and is argued to be so common sense that even traditionalists can't push back that much cause...yeah, not allowing women to work was handicapping the economy severely. The bonus of cleaning up their image among other species with some of these reforms is also common sense since it opens more doors that were once shut.
If anything, the Ferengi would leverage Federation membership MORE than other signing races who seem content to be assimilated in, and to get to share in the federation's idea of a utopian society. The Ferengi, by contrast, would treat it like a networking group, being able to be introduced to new business partners and customers on favorable terms.
The Federation in general does use money. Bolia has a bank, for example, and a Vulcan master haggled over the price of a meditation lamp with Captain Janeway, and then Federation credits have and do get used, at least in the TOS-era.
Oh, even if they don't officially join the Federation, I'm betting Nog will be far from the only Feregi in Starfleet. I remember Dr Reyga from the Next Generation episode "Suspicions". He openly admitted to being a terrible Ferengi, but a first rate scientist. I'm sure there are thousands of others just like him, who would sell their own grandmother, to join an organization where their "useless" talents, are valuable as latinum.
We did see a Ferengi captain at Starfleet Headquarters in Discovery season 3 (in 3188), so eventually it does happen, it's just a matter of is this the first step?
I can imagine a lot of Ferengi in the federation working under the likes of the Secretary of commerce (Ralph Offenhouse according to the book mere mortals) or for Freighter companies like Cassidy Yates-Sisko's.
I like how Rom isn't clueless. He knows full well that people see him as an idiot. Though, if anyone did slight bit of homework. They would know he was responsible for the War Crime device, Self-Replicating Cloaked Mines (they are technically a war crime. Technically). Plus, I am so happy they threw in that Rom grew a love of baseball. So happy that is canon with the return of Baseball to the Star Trek Universe. When in a lot of beta canon (and even in Alpha thanks to DS9). Baseball kind of died out by the time Kirk and his crew.
And so that Rom and Nog (RIP) are clear sign that a Ferengi can change their...lobes. That some times great success can just happen or can be achieved through great deal of hard work and effort. It is never about making profits. It is about being successful with one's self. While Quark being a great businessman. Even after his brother started the reform and Quark being traditionalist and not really liking it. But Quark isn't stupid. He saw the profits that could be made with such reforms. Thus profited from the reforms. He has his own moon now (in STO lore, lol).
I like the option of what the books did more.
They had the Ferengi and Cardassians sign up to the Khitomer Accords by the time of the Temporal Apocalypse.
A growing Federation business class that wind up at loggerheads with the Ferengi over just how it is going to work.
Ferenginar could probably benefit from the Risa's (and the Federation's) weather control tech. At last, an end to the constant rain.
Other races that I would love to see join the Federation, if circumstances eventually line up:
- The Xindi
- The Suliban
- The Kzinti
- The Undine (Species 8472)
- Maybe some Delta Quadrant races
Klingons and Cardassians are likely to join IMO. Gerak maybe the Cardassian version of "Rom" as he seems someone knowledgeable of the Federation and lenient towards their ways and he desires to make Cardassia better. Joining the Federation would be a boon to the Cardassians as well.
The only thing scarier than old Ferenginar is a Dax looking to borrow your gold-pressed latinum.
The Ferengi in the UFP would be an useful addition. 😂
If this were not the case, they control several worlds and have a fairly large influence, the Klingons do not attack them because they depend on Ferengi exports.
Back in the day, Disney ran studios like Miramax and Touchstone so they could produce movies like Splash and Dead Poets Society with much more adult themes than your usual Disney Princess or High School Musical type movie so the "Disney" brand stayed associated with wholesome family entertainment, but Disney could still produce movies with shots at Oscars other than "best song" (because back in the day there was no "best animated feature" category) or lucrative adult audiences.
1) Making an _alliance_ with the Ferengi, instead of bringing the Ferengi fully into the Federation, seems to me a much wiser option. Leaving the Ferengi free to be Ferengi gives you a great, plausibly deniable, way of acting . . . somewhat unscrupulously, lets say, (or as Garak might say: "pragmatically) when interacting with other star nations or powers.
2) But I also think it's wise because either the Federation will wholly transform the profit-focused culture of the Ferengi, or the Ferengi will bring the Profit Motive back into the culture of the Federation. BIG CAVEAT HERE: that's assuming that the profit motive is actually gone from the Federation and that there are not, in fact, people out there who actually conduct trade or independent companies that build ships or mine dilithium, or write Holodeck dramas, or grow food to sell, and all the quasi-socialist "we don't use money anymore" stuff is a drastic - and rather inaccurate - oversimplification of the Federation's actual economy.
3) Also, letting the Ferengi Alliance fully into the Federation, in my opinion, would actually make them HARDER to control. As "foreigners" they have a more limited ability to conduct business within the Federation's borders, and Starfleet itself can police them and the federation government (often in the form of Starfleet personnel) can actually oversee their "trade" negotiations. But as members, their negotiations will be made "internal affairs" between member worlds that the Federation government won't be able to oversee. Policing the Ferengi's activities (and they've already made a great deal of penetration into the Federation's underworld) will become more a matter of local law enforcement than something Starfleet itself can intervene with. (Of course exactly how much Starfleet serves as the interstellar police inside the Federation's borders - or Federation Law Enforcement in general - is never really explored all that much in canon Star Trek media - we've seen a couple prisons and "military" courts/tribunals, but other than Odo as the not-part-of-Starfleet constable of DS9, we haven't seen much of actual civilian law enforcement).
4) We've also seen how the Ferengi's shady dealings, shall we say, make them easy for even more unscrupulous folks, like the Tal Shiar, to blackmail, buy, or intimidate - making them an distinct weakness.
Those are my four main reasons why Ferengi membership in the Federation might not be the best idea. I see an Alliance with the Ferengi giving both parties a lot of the advantages of Ferengi entering in a full members of the Federation, but insulating both from some of the problems full membership would bring with it. If the Federation and Ferenginar do want to proceed to "full membership", it would be better to take a "long view" approach. This is something that will take two or three GENERATIONS to really prepare the Ferengi for doing. It's not like this is something that you have to do NOW.
The number one reason to join is access. News that Voyager returned to the Alpha Quadrant probably hit the radar of many different governments through various spies. And the Ferengi were already in the Delta Quadrant.
I think this is a savvy move for the Ferengi. All they have to give up is some of the shadier parts of their economy and they are in the position of being the center of Federation intergalactic trade. Since most Federation member worlds have no concept of profit I can imagine the Federation council just handing over the purse strings of Federation cash reserves to them and just letting them do as they will with it as long as they can bring in the resources the Federation needs to trade for.
Basically a contract to stay moral in trade in return for the massive profit of the Federation backing you position. And of course in return for being forced to take political positions with the rest of the Federation you now get one of the most powerful militaries backing your people.
Also the Grand Negas probably gets to see the benefit of centralization of power in the government run by him.
I really love how they portrayed Ferengi are, under Roms Nagusship. That he has proven to be successful in integrating all of the reforms, that Zek instigated... i think From himself has grown thanks to his role. Far more confident with himself, than he was ever portrayed DS9.
All in all, i think that would be a great story to be told.. how Ferenginar got admitted to the Federation and to see the benefits to the Quadrant shown.
I can see this happening. I also think the Klingons were not far off from joining the Federation at the end of DS9 as well. Worf going to Qonos probably helps with that. I think Cardassia is also on bat because of Gerak and their situation. I think the Federation helps rebuild Cardassia and eventually, as a weaken power, they turn to join the Federation. Bajor was pretty much a shoe-in at the end of DS9 as well.
The Ferengi could create with the cardassians and some other races their own form of federation (with currency xD)
Honestly they could and weirdly enough I would appreciate that. Star Trek has become a bit ... well it always has been very stereotypical. The Klingons, as much as I like them, are retarded. Flat out retarded murderous drunken growling buffoons. Star Trek Enterprise had that one episode in which Archer got to talk with his Klingon lawyer, and what this Martok lawyer said really just struck a chord with me. I don't want them to stop their warrior culture entirely, but for the love of logic I want them to be like a functioning society.
@@TurKlackagreed also I think STO once again did a great job in doing instead of everyone being absorbed into the federation it’s a large alpha quadrant alliance that will turn into a melting pot that is techically not the federation, republic or kingdom empire but a mix of all three
It was a fascinating decision for Orion to ally with _Andoria_ to form the Emerald Chain, though I wonder if it was simply a matter of proximity.
I was wondering what exactly looked "off" to me about both the Lower Decks Ferengi as well as the early-TNG Ferengi - and it's the lack of extreme eyeshadow!
Though, maybe those were just meant to be shadows around their eyes on DS9 because they keep terrible hours working at a bar?
But Nog still had them even after being at the Academy, right..? Oh no, now I have to go rewatch all of the TNG-era shows just to check the Ferengi makeup! :p
Anyway, I think they'd still have to make a few more societal reforms. Removal (or at least heavily scaling back) of advertising would be a big one I think, definitely at least the ones that run inside "TV" programmes. Just as Kira was extremely unimpressed with "come to Quark's, Quark's is fun".
But yeah, pretty much everything post-2370s that we've been shown has not involved the Ferengi backsliding in terms of sexual equality. So I wouldn't be surprised if they became full members by the 2420s-2450s.
I wish I had seen the stuff you mention. But so far, I have only seen the stuff from DS9. Lower Decks season 4 is not on in New Zealand. Amazon Prime Video used to have every season, but they have not got season 4 and oddly even lost season 3 but not 1 and 2. Sounds like interesting new lore.
My Headcanon for the Ferengi is that they take Contract Negotiation VERY SERIOUSLY, and they're always expected to take a long time, with both sides going back and forth on terms until an agreement that seems beneficial to both party is reached. And if you missed a nasty detail in the small print, it's your fault for not looking closely enough before signing. Because once the Contract is signed, both parties abide by it, otherwise it'd just be economic anarchy. "A Contract is a Contract is a Contract, but only among Ferengi", isn't meant to encourage Ferengi to cheat outsiders, it's to warn Ferengi that outsiders don't respect the inviolate nature of The Contract, and could break a deal if they feel cheated. So I see Rom and Lita's little scheme with the Federation negotiators as a "Secret Test of Character" to see if they understood the importance of holding your own in a contract negotiation. Fortunately, Captain Freeman managed to make up for Admiral Vassery's shortcomings there.
Earth is the only world that we know of that is free of currency, due to being post-scarcity. The Federation has Credits to allow for trade, and member worlds have their own currency if they choose.
I think that Grand Nagas Rom should invite Captains Picard and Riker and also Colonel Kira -Probably a General by now, to come to Feranganar to discuss the possibility of the Ferangi joining the Federation and that Kira prays to the prophets and ask them to please allow the Emissary to come to the discussions. The federation diplomats would come later after the initial discussions. Trickey but I think Rom and Leta and the others could figure it out. Might take a few Bajorian months to do it but they will get there.
I always knew that both Zeg and Rom would push progressive reforms that would inevitably make the Ferengi Alliance eligible to join the Federation,
but I didn't expect them to join that soon under Rom's tenure as Grand Nagas.
I was expecting a self sealing stem bolt reference
I doubt it, but I feel they could be very valuable allies to them.
They were allied in the dominion war , and they were used as neutral intermediates for Gemma quadrant trade , reparations. Ext . Thry built new ship yard on bajor and cardassia to expand thete merchants fleet capabilities and assist economic development on both worlds
I don't know. If I was in the Federation I'd want to wait a century to see how well these changes take hold. Absolutely make alliances and trade deals with the Ferengi. But maybe wait and see on membership.
On the other hand some may see membership as a way of making sure the reforms stick.
If they join then they can't roll them back without leaving and the longer they have been a member the harder and more expensive that would be.
Although I suppose a bunch of politicians could appeal to the glory of the old days and lie about how the economy would be better if they left and you would get Frexit.
With Kesprytt II there was a potential member (Kes) without having a united planetary government. Well if failed. But the Federation didn't seem to categorically oppose it
I've never much gotten to the idea that the ENTIRE Federation economic system didn't involve some form of currency exchange. That whole 'no money' thing is OK for just Earth, but not the Federation entire.
I believe Nog proved that Ferengi make greak quartermasters. Nog doesn't even think he has the lobes for it.
Yee i hate when people say that ferengi not have much to trade in federation bcs a moneys is not like even on earthe we have trade, recorces for recors in local scal and entire federation work aroud help to grow, and they buy stuf, and federation have even latinum if they need buy stuf.
I think that the Ferengi would want to be more like Switzerland. Open for business to all, but neutral as well, so as to avoid being caught in a shooting war. They could make more money just by trading with both sides, providing goods and information, for a price, which of course, goes up in wartime.
Also like Switzerland, the Ferengi could be used as a backdoor between governments that don't have official contact with each other, like the Swiss do for the US and Iran. For a price, of course.
Personally I think adding the ferengi into the Federation would be a wise idea they are better friends than then letting them be uncontrolled cannons they bring in an economy that is well istabilshed and like the old saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer
Most Ferengi are very intelligent and clever, they have advanced technology and powerful starships. Now that they have a finer grip on morality, they would make a fine addition.
If the price is right
I honestly think it could go either way. My guess is it matters just how popular Rom's reforms actually are. As we saw in LD, there is dissenting opinions on the matter. And moving to join the "currency-less" Federation might prove a bridge too far for many.
The Ferengi already know the condition for joining: they have to bring the Klingons as well...
I mean it makes sense and it is extremely overdue.
Ah I see the Ferengis have been drinking Root Beer...
I think the other issue which could be whole video is not the cultural aspect but the size and logistical aspect of getting the Ferengi Alliance into the UFP. Think about it we've only seen single worlds or small empires like the Tamrians join the UFP. How does bringing in something comparable to the UFP in power in someways work? surely the weight of the ferengi would outweight most other member worlds? What about their whole Alliance? is every world joining as individual members?
Also how would the other powers react to such a massive expansion of the UFP?
The alliance, as had as I remember, is not large. In addition, each planet gets to separately decide whether to join.
@@jamiedoe6822 It's not as large as say the Klingon Empire or any other major power, but it's still massive compared to the normal one world tiny power that joins the UFP in the next gen. Also I'm not sure that's stated that every world decides? If you have a vote and every world in the allaince wants to join to as one they can? But the point of the episode was a lot of the terms are up for negotiation.
.@@jamiedoe6822 It is much more powerful and stable than many of the worlds that were inserted into the federation for the first time, and not for nothing did anyone attack them, for example, the Klingons depend in part on Ferengi exports because the Klingons do nothing but fight.
@@carlossabogal2970 fair point
I find it funny that the most popular Ferangi show is called landlord cops. Arguably the two most unliked groups of people are the hero of the Ferangi TV show.
Where did you get those CG scenes of Quark and company?
Looks like Star Trek Online.
Diamonds.
In Spore managing an economic culture in space is time-consuming and gets more expensive the more you progress, so it's easier to be the invader.
The ferengi cries out as he strikes you.
The Ferengi are, as of Lower Decks it seems, a useful ally rather than official member.
They likely serve as a secondary economy that can filter resources into the UFP without breaking what little financial systems the UFP has.
I have doubts, for two reasons:
The Ferengi are known for having conned, pirated, double-dealt, and exploited half the galaxy. The Federation, on the other hand, wants to be seen as a reliable, straightforward, uncorrupted, lawful polity by the rest of the Galaxy. Having the Ferengi Alliance join the Federation could be too much of a reputation hit for the Federation to stomach.
Also, the office of Nagus has historically been a nearly dictatorial position, and power was either transferred by the old Nagus appointing a successor or the FCA oligarchic elite deposing the old Nagus and installing a new one. It doesn't help that succession within the family was apparently common enough that Zek grooming his son and later appointing his stepson as a successor was not considered unusual, so there's also a bit of a monarchical element to the position. Corruption was also common, and I don't know if Zek's and Rom's reforms were sufficient to reform the position of the Nagus into something more democratic.That being said, even if the Nagus is considered a dictator, Ferengi society is quite libertarian, so the central government might be unwilling or unable to exert much of its dictatorial power. Maybe the position of the Grand Nagus will become more of a figurehead head of state in the future, with a more democratic institution filling the power vacuum.
The Ferengi Alliance joining the Federation... honestly, I see benefits for both sides.
I don't see other major powers in the Alpha Quadrant becoming members but "allies" of the UFP. For example Klingons are not members they are "ALLIES!" The key difference between members vs allies is as members they are subordinate to the Federation Council... As "allies" the Federation Council can not legislate or regulate what happens on worlds or civilizations "allied" with the UFP.
Allies to the UFP retain their indepencence and sovereignty... Klingons being the "prime" example of "allies" not "members."
What if the Ferrengi came to Earth in the late 20th century? I don't mean in the context of "Little Green Men". I mean in the context of showing up openly proclaiming a willingness to sell advanced technology to the highest bidder.
I would expect that since humans have a capitalist bias of this era they'd get along nicely. Also, don't the Ferrengi consider Wall Street to be some holy site or something in the main continuity? It seems like Ferreginar and Earth would quickly become allies.