To help get rid of the blackout between shots in H-mode shooting you need to enable the High Speed Display option (Red menu, Page 8). This option is only available when NOT shooting in H+ mode and will basically eliminate the blackout, but there's still a stutter to it for things like panning shots. Might want to give it a try though and see if it's something that helps you when shooting in that mode, it's nice to know it's an option
It doesn't truly get rid of blackout because the camera does a "slideshow" effect to cover this up. Turning on High Speed Display basically lets the camera display some motion between images when shooting in H mode, but it doesn't truly eliminate blackout (it looks like ~20fps). Same story on the R6/R6II and R5. R3 is the only one in Canon's lineup that has a stacked sensor and is thus capable of showing 60fps+ motion between shots when shooting with electronic shutter. I know it is a lot to ask for a cheaper tier but this is one reason I still miss the OVF and seeing true motion between the shots I take.
While I do appreciate Canon ultimately being honest when questioned about this issue, I really think they should be more upfront about it in their literature and marketing materials. It's no good to have a camera that can shoot 30 fps if a large percentage of your shots are out of focus. It seems a bit deceptive of Canon not to make consumers aware of this information. Thanks so much Duade, for doing the research and helping all of us budding wildlife photographers to have a clearer picture of our gear and its capabilities. You are simply the best!
Aye I'm with you on this. I understand they want to sell cameras and that 30fps sounds great in the marketing....but I'd rather they just restricted it to 10 or 15fps and we got more reliable AF. I used to shoot with the D500 that's only 10fps and it's fantastic for BIF
@@ajc1482 Still the camera with all the troubles comes off with a higher keeper rate than the 10 fps limited cameras - especially if you switch the viewfinder to OVF simulation where the viewfinder - and by extension the autofocus - has a higher contrast image to work with.
Agreed disclosure up-front would be nice. As a practical matter, I can't see any camera mfg being that forthcoming and potentially confusing in marketing materials, perhaps their technical literature would be the place. ALL cameras have limitations when you push them to their spec limits as we users tend to do :-) If I heard correctly, most of Duade's 30 fps images were properly in focus. Enough bad ones to raise a flag, but not enough to turn him off to the camera. Personally I'd be willing to take the "risk" to use H+ IF it allows me to capture rapid motion of a flighty subject. Especially in good lighting situations.
I talked to some specialists from Canon Germany and they actually suggested using the Auto-AF-Case. The other cases are remnants from the DSLRs, with a predictive Autofocus that can cause defocus because the camera predicts the subject at the wrong place (even with subjects that are still). In the Auto-Case the Camera is set in a totally different mode which should perform better. Also I think the problems are caused by the size of the pixels and probably the image processor. While the processor officially is the same as in the higher models, I wouldn't be surprised that its performance is limited somehow compared to an R6 or R5. We also have to consider the physical size of the pixels. Translated to fullframe the R7 has a resolution of over 80MP, which means the pixels are very small even compared to an R5, which has it's own challenges for the autofocus. I personally prefer to have the ability to shoot 30fps if I need it. Even with some shots out of focus, most of the time I got more sharp images in total than I would if I shot with a lower framerate. Appreciate your work 👍
I bought my R7 in December or January. I started using it as my first mirrorless camera, along with a Sigma 150-600mm, which is quite heavy (1st super telephoto lens as well for me). At this time I was on 30fps. So the learning curve was quite steep, and it took me a while to start getting more consistency in my sharp photos. I was overwhelmed with so many images shot and to choose from, and came down to H (15fps). To my amazement I was getting more sharp shots and also a lot less warbling. I could see almost no difference from one photo to the next. Ever since I've been using Electronic in H, and 1st curtain for BiF to remove any warping (have this on set in C1 for easy access). Thank you for the video, it confirms my theory as well and added more insight.
I noticed this same results as well. Like you also went to H because I was overwhelmed by the number of shots I was taking at 30 fps, I purchased my camera in May, so I guess beginner’s luck can be a thing lol.
Thanks for sharing your in field experience which confirms what Canon are saying and is very helpful for those with the camera. Thanks again, Cheers, Duade
Hi! Your comment was very useful to me as I also have the R7 and Sigma 150-600mm. I've gotten fantastic images so far but once in a while, it does loose focus. So frustrating! I shoot in H+ so will take your advice and go down to H and see what happens. Thanks for your advice :)
Thank you for this information. I too have noticed this problem which is somewhat annoying, particularly when you are shooting a bird you don’t often see. I totally agree, manufacturers should be more open about their products limitations. They could have made it better and charged a little more. As a hobbyists photographer, I don’t have the means to just go out and buy another camera. It was good of you to enquire with Canon and it was refreshing that they were honest with their feedback. Thank you.
At the end of the day all cameras have limitations and quirks that have to be worked around. Canon haven't technically done anything wrong, they said the camera can shoot at 30fps and it can...there's just draw backs from using that speed, to be honest 30fps is over kill anyway. 10-15 is the sweet spot.
Kudos to Canon for their honesty. Without you taking the time to send your camera in and to perform your tests following their recommendations people would have the wrong expectations and be set up for disappointment. Thank you.
Kudos? I'd disagree. They shouldn't have marketed the camera with specifications which the cameras actual performance can't match. I'm sure they tested the camera and knew that. They need to change their marketing specs to show the actual performance and issue out a press release stating the problems. Without Duade I might have bought this camera. So kudos is actually to Duade!
@@af2w131f Well, Canon would argue that the AF is not a limitation in good, high contrast light. In lower light with poor contrast, that’s where the issue manifests itself and H+ is a problem.
Thanks mate, yes, I was happy they were upfront about it and give them credit for that. I guess the room for improvement is educating buyers on this limitation. In fairness a lot of this is buried in the manual but can be hard to find for new owners. I guess that is why we are lucky to have RUclips so we can learn off others. Cheers, Duade
Kudos for what ? The great influencers on vacancion induced the ideea that the r7 has the same autofocus level as bigger cameras from canon, and even bether than the z9. Remember ?
Thanks so much for your persistence in determining the issue with the R7. I've owned 8 previous Canons (all APSC), and have never had a problem with any of them....until the R7. This has been a very frustrating camera. Thankfully, I saw your video suggestions 2 days ago, just in time for a photo session of the Blue Angels Practice Flights today. I adjusted my settings per your suggestions in the video. There were low, dark clouds which compounded the low light situation by not allowing the smoke trails from the jets to dissipate. Now we had clouds and smoky haze with medium blue jets running from 500 - 720 mph. I was nervous just to depend on my R7 so I brought my 80D for some shots as well. I am pleased to say that the majority of my shots with the R7 turned out as well as could be expected under the conditions. I feel a little more pleased and confident using the R7, knowing and understanding its limitations, and how to deal with them. (This still doesn't excuse what I see as an issue with Canon not being forthcoming with the R7 specs so that customers can make a smart purchasing decision). Thanks so much, again!!
Your commitment is something do be admired. After so many videos dedicated to the R7, you come back and produce content for all of us that don't have the luxury to change bodies every now and then. Thanks for taking the time and energy to provide us with this information. Cheers
Here's my 2 cents and ive talked about this in a few videos about the R7 and any mirrorless camera for AF. IF your subject is not moving (outside your depth of field) then get your focus and get OFF the AF button. If the subject will move out of the DoF then get back on it. This becomes a skill. What is happening is that AF is hunting all the time, and if it decides something else is the point it will move point. And thus the motors of the lens have to adjust. Now you have 2 things going on, the motor for 1 and the sensor readout for 2. Result - focus, focus, out of focus, focus, etc. So end advice from my use, get your focus, get off the button, touch the button again as you need to. A 30 for burst will be fine in that situation. And YES you need good contrast on the R7. I lost a whole session in iffy light as I forgot to raise the exposure to get better contrast and everything came up 'off'.
Thanks mate, great advice and makes a lot of sense, I think it is just a matter of changing habits. Having the R5 as my primary I probably get lazy as I don't seem to have many issues, I can simply hold down the AF button and it just works. But I will try your advice next time I am out with the R7. Cheers, Duade
Is it the same for both mechanical shutter mode and electronic mode? Reason being, I think the 15fps in Mech. mode is enough for my needs, and I can avoid any rolling shutter issues as well.
Thanks Duade for pursuing this. I have the same issue with the R6. The focus point is on the bird’s eye and it is out of focus. I have missed many great wildlife shots and I thought it was me. I only use 12 frames per second with electronic first curtain shutter. I’m constantly saying to my wife how is this out of focus when the red square is clearly on the eye. She uses Sony and suggests I should change!
Thank you for your tenacity. Those of us who do not have the weight of your reputation applaud your efforts. Your effort has helped me understand my camera much better. Thank you very much!!!!
So in other words (as we already knew) the R7 is not really a replacement for the 7D mk 2. Canon has simply abandoned the idea of a professional APS-C body. I'm impressed and extremely pleased that you actually got an honest answer from Canon. Keep up the good work! Should manufacturers be honest and open about the limitations of their products, you ask? Well, that would be nice. But can we expect that they'll ever print on the box: This camera does not have as good AF as (blabla)? I don't think so. Should Nikon announce that their P1000 is not comparable in image quality to a system body with a big prime? Or are they allowed to assume that people should be able to figure that out on their own?There are actually people who I know to have bought the P1000 expecting it to be as good as a DSLR or mirrorless. I pointed out that if that were true, every sports and wildlife photographer would be using it, so the fact that they don't, pretty much proves that it isn't as good. But they were still convinced I was wrong, no doubt because they were in love with the camera. So if we buy an R7 expecting the AF to be as good as the R3, R5 or R6ii, I don't think it's Canon's fault because they didn't warn us. We should be smart enough to figure that out on our own. Or at least smart enough to watch some of Duade Paton's videos before making the purchase.
Just a side note… Canon and reviewers at the time of launch of R7 were claiming it had the same ai autofocus system on par with the R3. If that was true then some intentional gimping was done to hurt the R7 as to not compete with the R3. But that’s another conversation. Bottom line… honesty on the part of Canon and other manufacturers is needed.
Seems that sensor readout speed is the most important characteristics of mirrorless cameras for wildlife photography, as AF and rolling shutter are greatly impacted by it.
If EOS R7 readout speed is constant regardless of scene brightness and frame rate, and if the tracking misfocus occurs only during certain conditions (i.e. low light, low contrast scenes) then the misfocus issue is not related to the readout speed. I suppose that misfocus would be due to some computational issue related to focus tracking, or some other cause. Big thank you to Duade for the deep reviews of camera gear. It’s a big help to the community of bird photographers.
Thank you Duade for contacting Canon and sharing their feedback here. Definitely this will help lot of canon r7 owners to know the limitation of the camera and better adapt to it.
My R6 is the same. Canon yet again dropping the ball. Ppl shouldnt applaud them for their honesty if they provided products with these faults without telling or fixing.
I agree. The are using features like high shutter speed to promote their products. I fact they are lying, realising and admitting after sales that this is not working. I am truly upset. I know before I would definately opted for another option. What a shame Canon.
Thanks for taking the effort in testing to figure out this issue with the R7. Props to Canon for being honest about their response to you. The high frame rate is one of the main things that attracted me to purchasing this camera coming from the 90D, but to be honest, I almost never shoot at that rate. Dealing with that many files can be so daunting so I generally never shoot past the 15, and in some cases even less. The lower contrast seems to be an issue with lenses as well, and I typically use the Sigma 150-600 C on my R7 or the RF 100-400 but even with the inconstancies of these 2 combinations I still get a better keeper rate vs my older 90D as far as photos being sharp. As a hobbyist shooter the issue doesn't really annoy me that much. Someone using the camera for their livelihood I could understand the disappointment. Having picked up the R6MII just after release, I find I have to force myself to use the R7 now although I do take it in my car as a daily when I go to work, but If I am going out for some more serious shooting I will use the R6MII and use the R7 as a back up, the R6mII is just a so much better camera in autofocus and readout speed, Iso performance and dynamic range, but that is expected with the price difference, maybe the lower MP helps with the R6MII, which is the only thing I dislike about the R6MII. I plan on keeping the R7 for now but who knows for how long with more bodies coming out in the near future.
Thanks for sharing your experience Tony and I agree with everything you have said, the R7 is a real paradox, it offers so many wonderful features but has a few issues that prevent it being the camera I had hoped it would be, this is not Canons fault, more my personal expectation of the camera having been a long time 7D user. I agree re the R6II, that is just a fun camera to use. I can only hope Canon do give us a pro APSC next time around with the R7II. Cheers, Duade
Good work, Paton. Maybe you could suggest Canon to give us a firmware with the option to set the value of FPS in Electronic Mode. Or at least a new fixed option with 8 or 10 fps.
Thank you very much. I had the R5, R7 and now R3. The R7 will be used only during good light since the RF 100-500 produces 800mm reach. $1,500 R7 is still better than 7DMII. R7 MII should be better. R3 for low light is my preferred body for wildlife during the early morning and evening. Just add a 1.4!extender to get to 700mm for the same 100-500mm lens.
Someone had pointed out that most of the people who are complaining about this issue are those who have been using higher end cameras like the R5 and R3 and people, like myself, who upgraded to the R7 don’t seem to notice or mind this issue. I think for its price the R7 is doing exactly what I expected it to.
hi Duade, thank you for taking the time to address the issue and return to it when Canon responded. There is a setting in the camera to turn down the volume of the shutter when you are shooting in standard H mode. I typically shoot in this continuous mode and the shutter is very low. yellow menu/wrench folder #3 volume. you can then see to adjust the shutter volume! hope that helps with using the H mode over H+ and keeping your volume low for birds etc.
Some very useful information in your video. I have another brand of camera and sometimes the focus point indication is on the subject but the actual focus is somewhere else. You explanation could apply to my camera as well. Thank you for all the work that goes into your videos they are all excellent, informative and honest. Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge.
My previous camera the A7R IV had this problem, the focus jumps were not as severe they were jumping to the tail or legs. Part of the reason was the lack of bird eye AF but it happened much more in overcast conditions which means it was a contrast problem. I'm now using the Sony A1 and it's confidence inspiring to go through my images and see no strange autofocus shifts.
Wow Duane, I'm so impressed on your follow-through with this! I'm grateful to hear this too because I returned my R7 within 10 days of purchase for the same reasons that you reported. Having your validation is good because I now know I wasn't crazy! Would I buy it again? I don't think so. I do like that Canon gave you an honest answer though. I've been using the Fuji xh2s and super happy since.Thanks again.
As already written in the other video, I also had this problem with the R5 (previously with the R6). Surely during continuous shots the problem is that of the fps. But it also happens when you press on the recognition without shooting. It starts following the eye then automatically goes backwards or forwards keeping that recognition square. So it's something that goes beyond the shots. Also in the video I see that the background focuses on you... it happens to me with the R5 even in good light conditions! What do you think about it ?
Same here - with the R6. I constantly go into DPP to see where my focus point is and it is obvious that it is not on the same plane as the box. I do feel this is a software problem but I don't think we'll see any more updates for the R6. Its a little disappointing that Canon has made this camera obsolete in 3 years.
Thanks Duade. The R7 is my first mirrorless camera and my first with tracking etc. I thought that that the odd soft shot I was getting on high speed continuous was down to me. But now having looked back over my photos, I am pretty sure I’ve been experiencing the same issues you have described in low light/low contrast scenarios. I am still learning about what this camera can do (previous camera was a 7D2), so the advice you give on settings is invaluable. Thank you so much.
I remember them pushing the false idea that the focus system was derived from the R3. I agree it's most likely the capability of the sensor that cause the af to lose focus between shots. And I think experience of many has shown the limitation of these crop sensors, they have always been noisy and poor performers in low light. In great light they perform quite well. For the price, it's still a very good value.
I had a tough experience with my Canon 90D and Tamron 100-600, about 40% of my shots were not sharp due to focusing issues. Now with my R7 and Canon 100-500 I almost never have these issues. Even with 30fps, it is rare to have OOF shots. I went from only 60% in focus to around 95% in focus. I recently went to a black bear sanctuary which had low contrast and didn’t notice any more out of focus shots than usual.
I've heard many complaints about the 90D and to a lesser extent the 80D with regard to focus tracking. It seems like they were designed for a lower shooting speed than the camera was capable of and many wished there was a 7fps option for the 90D. I had the 80D and it was hit-or-miss with my 150-600 Tamron but I felt like more often than not it was the lens (there was an occasional misfocusing that would occur around 20m). I generally used the middle 9-point AF and find it mostly good enough for birds in flight except something like swallows) However I find that SLRs tend to pause focus when they struggle to track a subject and that is actually an advantage whereas Canon's mirrorless start AF hunting/pulsing rapidly which leads to more missed shots.
Thats right. I'm a 90d user and i've got the same experience, especially when i used viewfinder to make a shots. different result when im used to shot with the screen, i can get more sharp images. i dont know how, but yeahhh sometimes it's just annoy in some moments
There were 2 problems, unfortunately with the 90D from the research I did. I had one for about a week and quickly returned it. Canon "smushed" (not the appropriate technical term) the sensor from the 5DMii for the 90D resulting in very close pixel density. Due to the pixel density, any little movement at all was recorded as an unsharp photo. Also, if I remember correctly, this also resulted in the sensor being the equivalent of a 58MP sensor in a full frame camera, and most lenses don't have the "resolving power" (not my words) to handle the sensor. I had traded in my 80D for the 90D assuming it was an upgrade. It was a frustrating week of owning the 90D, and thankfully, the store still had my 80D. I took the 90D back, and happily got my 80D in return.
@@laurieschaerer7311 Iyaps, that's right, only some of the right lenses can accommodate the capabilities that the 90d has, but so far I still like the results even though it has to be a bit tricky to take photos with perfect results. The best photos are easy to get only with abundant light sources, it becomes a bit difficult when it gets a bit dark.
Thank you very much for doing such a detailed follow-up video on this issue and for suggesting a workaround. I'm deeply disappointed in Canon for not being upfront about this whole thing in the first place. At the launch of the R7, it was reported that it had a similar autofocus or shared similar AF characteristics with R3 (I dont remember the exact wording). Nowhere was it mentioned that the AF was inferior to the R5/R3 or that you would have to shoot at 6,5 fps/8 fps in lower light/contrast situations.😠 is it a case of marketing hype or of a company misleading the customers? 😠 I just wish Canon had been more upfront about the whole thing, because that would have influenced significantly my decision, just like Canon refusal to have third-party lenses manufacturers offer AF capable RF mount lenses (that was clear to me at the time). Again, I very much appreciate your dedication to helping R7 users understand the limitations of their camera, and I'm now a subscriber (don't know why I wasn't already one). Cheers
Thank you so much for all of your videos concerning this camera. I bought it on Thursday and was able to do some bird photography on Sunday. I shot still birds, flying birds, bird in contrast, those in low light, etc...Needless to say I was pretty upset with the results. I would say 99% of my photos were out of critical focus on the eyes of birds. I even have the "show focus points" plugin you mentioned and the box is right on the eye but when I zoom in 200% it's fuzzy. That was on a still subject in high contrast. I was handheld ISO 200 with shutter of 1/800 with a canon 100-400mm ii lens and canon ef-r adapter. I was so hopeful for this to finally replace my old 7Dii. But I compared the pictures I took today of a still flamingo to those I took 2 months ago of a black skimmer at 200% magnification and the 7Dii beats the R7 outright, it's not even a fair fight. I have no clue why all of my shots are not critically sharp and I don't want to jump through Canon hoops and settings to maybe have a 50% success rate. I have a better keeper rate with the 7D. I just googled why this was happening and came across your videos. Thanks so much for being honest, I think Canon dropped the ball on this one and I will be returning this purchase.
I still have my 7Dmk2 works fine, also have a 100-400mm II and a couple of amazing Canon EF L tele-primes and some old 1d series cams. I initially got excited when first announced did a pre order waited almost 2 months then cancelled it. I might have been better off getting the R5 but in the UK we were talking £4299 I thought no way paying that for a non stacked or non BSI sensor cam ....it's too old school. I'm about to order the Nikon Z8 and a 180-600mm. Canon are too slow with sensor dev and rely on paper big number specs and heavy sales marketing. I like Duade reviews he doesn't get frequent visits from Canon money truck like some.
Thank you for this video! I think it cannot be expected from the manufacturer to tell you all the limitations upfront, after all they want you to buy their camera, and the R7 does perform well in good light, it seems. I was lucky enough to be able to give the R7 a try as an upgrade for my 90d, and finally decided to go with Fuji instead. One of the reasons was the slow focusing of my Sigma 150-600 C lens in the shop environment (hard work due to the poor light). But that was only one of many reasons, to be fair. For its price, the R7 is a great camera, and thumbs up to Canon for their honest answer, I’m impressed.👍
Hi Duade. Thanks for the video, much appreciated. It's good that Canon came back with an honest explanation and at least we can now get on with using our R7's without wondering if there is something wrong with our particular example. I've read many of the comments already posted and not sure I can add anything particularly new. Although I must say the comment someone made about marketing people versus engineering people within Canon certainly seems more than probable. We still need to remember that it is only a few years ago that we could not even dream of the autofocus performance of the R7 (and quite a few other mirrorless cameras), never mind the R3's and Z8/9's of this world. I've had some fantastic results from my R7 and I'm sure many more to come - although I'm also sure I'll be looking carefully at the R7 Mk2 as and when it makes and appearance :) . Thanks again John
Thanks John, totally agree and we are quick to forget about DSLR AF, the R7 is a pretty big jump from the 7D and for its price offers wonderful features. I am being a bit critical and on reflection I still get many wonderful shots as you do. Cheers ,Duade
The most important thing for a camera is to deliver sharp pictures. I think it is really strange that if you use the R7 at full shooting framerates you are not garuanteed to have that many sharp shots. I was really hoping the R7 was a replacement for my 7Dii. Guess I’ll have to wait a little longer. Maybe Canon will surprise us with an R4? :-) Thanx for the video. Keep m coming!
Thanks once again Duade, that was excellent! I also returned my R7 to the Canon lab and they also said there was nothing wrong with it. I’ll persevere with the settings you suggest and see if I experience an improvement. I don’t remember any firmware updates coming out for the R7 but I wonder if improvements could be made. It would be nice to think canon were trying to improve it but I’ll not hold my breath! Great work Duade, thank again. Best, Julian.
Thank you for doing the work to get this clarified by Canon. I have been saying in the comments on this and other fora that the issue was data throughput of the focus configuration that offers such high shutter speeds and rates, and that data bus was an issue with the R7 specifically, but basically was a voice in the wilderness. Canon marketing have a bit of a history of pushing features that cannot be supported - overheating of the R5 when used as the video camera in the much-touted high resolution modes they really featured, for example. That created an expectation that could not be supported for some time, until several firmware updates, but by then the damage was done. In the case of the R7, attention fell on the Sigma 150-600c as the culprit, but with the R5, R6 and R6II units I shoot with, that was never an issues, and Sigma went to the trouble of putting out a video claiming that there was no issue with their lenses and the Canon R-series MILC bodies when shooting birds on the wing - although I noticed that they demonstrated their assertions with the R6 body and not the R7. That was in the context of a lot context of perceived issues with 3rd party legacy lenses. It was not so much the lens, as the focusing system for that configuration, and what was expected of it - poor marketing and communications Canon. The sensor readout speed for the density of the 33MP APS-C sensor, at high electronic shutter and burst speeds needs a BSI/Stacked sensor. It is no coincidence that the R3 camera used for sports, which demands a high shutter speed and fast tracking, has a more modest sensor size of FF 24MP and DOES have a BSI/stacked sensor, decent data buffer along with high speed CF-Express card capability to support high shutter burst speeds. In the R7 the focus, shutter, processor, and buffer data transfer are not up to the advertised H+ speed they promoted. Basically the system bus system is out of balance. It develops a backlog of data that cannot be processed in time to allow all of the other components to work effectively. I actually shoot in mechanical most of the time, but the mechanical shutter in the R7 sounds like a tinker's cart. I looked at the R7 when it came out, came to the conclusion that it was built to a price and found that disappointing as I truly, truly wanted a flagship APS-C MILC that was a valid successor to the 7DII. I will re-evaluate my decision to avoid the R7 when a MkII version comes out if that has the elements that are missing. On the other hand, if the R5MkII comes out as suggested with a BSI/stacked 60MP sensor, I will likely go in that direction and simply use either 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes when necessary, as I do now.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Trevor and yes, the readout speed in these mirrorless bodies does seem to be the heart of the system. I noticed the AF difference to the R5/R6II almost immediately but was confused as I thought the R7 had the same AF system so always suspected my camera was at fault. But over time I suspect your explanation is logical. I imagine Canon themselves would have data on the number of returns or complaints re the R7 AF and will hopefully make necessary improvements in future models. Cheers, Duade
Good video, Duade. I got my R7 a year ago to replace my beloved 7D MKII which I have used for sports and wildlife photography. I like a lot of things about the R7, I already owned the R but wanted the crop sensor mirrorless as I am transitioning to RF mount lenses. But as much as I like the R7 I feel it was pushed out a bit before it was really ready. The focus issue you discuss is one reason, I have noticed it on occasion with my camera as well and also shutter bounce. Another thing is the lack of a vertical battery grip. A lot of my shots, typically with longer lenses are verticals and my wrist gets so tired with the R7 not having the comfort of the buttons on a battery grip. I also like the balance better with long lenses and while one can easily swap out a dead battery I just prefer having 2 in the grip. I have a feeling in the 2024 we might see an R7 MkII which will have a much improved focusing system as well as less rolling shutter and finally a dedicated vertical battery grip. Just my 2 cents!
Excellent video, Duade. Thank you very much for going to the trouble and getting the answers. Your prescription for minimizing the issue sounds very similar to what a friend does with his R7. (To this point, I've tended to take about 3 times the number of shots of each subject because I assumed 2/3 of the images would be bad from the R7.)
Thanks for keeping us updated on this subject Duade! As an R7 Owner i want to add my two cents to this. I did some tracking AF tests with a subject rotating in a circle shooting bursts of over a second. The subject was moving back and forward by at least 20 cm so this test wasn't aimed at the focus shifting on a still target. Tested with the official RF-EF adapter and the Canon EF 24-70 f2.8. I discovered that the higher the framerate the better the camera tracked the subject. The slower the framerate, especially with EFCS, the longer the screen stays dark even though the sensor should be "open" for much longer than with the high framerates. This seems to be true even when using electronic shutter for some reason. By far the best tracking was achieved with 30 fps and electronic shutter. A second thing that i found is related to the exposure simulation. I didn't do any proper testing on this yet so its mainly speculation. It seems like the exposure simulation affects the performance of subject tracking. When manually adjusting the ISO and thus under or overexposing the image in the preview, the subject tracking seems to be affected. I assumed that the processor of the camera would adjust the exposure while the sensor would capture the best image possible (for the preview, not the actual photo) so the AF has the best preview to work with. With exposure simulation disabled the tracking seems to be better since the exposure for the final image doesn't effect the preview exposure and AF. Again, this is mainly speculation from me since i didn't to any proper testing yet.
Hi Duade, went through much the same experience as you with the R7. Not sure if it was luck, experience, or a little of both, but I switched to H mode a while back as a test because I found most of my focus issues were in poor contrast environments. Great that you spoke to Canon and helped validate this suspicion, and great work again mate. Garry.
Hi Duade, It's really helpful to me. Once I dialed down from H++ to H, my keeper rate increase noticeably. I am shooting Tamron 100-400mm on R7 and really struggling, especially during low light conditions. Thumbs up, mate!
5:53 So, those numbers between the R7 and the R5 are almost exactly 30 and 60fps. (16.67 and 33.3ms respectively). That 2ms difference for the R7 doesn't allow for much compute time, so yeah... Makes sense to me to limit to 15FPS with AF to give much more compute time after the sensor is read and processed.
Thanks for the update. This is what I was expecting.. it's a much cheaper body than the R5, and whilst shooting from a hide with a friend who has the R7 we also noticed that the hit rate on the R5 was much higher.. I would be interested to see how the budget R8 performs.
As an additional comment, we should all keep in mind is for everything else except fast moving low light extreme bird photography, the EOS R7 holds its own. I was thinking that for use on an African safari where you take photos of large animals and landscapes and people, the cameras performance should be excellent. The crop factor advantage is huge if the light is right. Using a Canon 100-500mm lens and with the R7 crop factor, at 360mm you have a 576mm equivalent at f5.6. At 151mm, you have a 242mm equivalent at 4.5. Of course, at 500mm you have an 800mm equivalent at 7.1. Finally, I have found that when the R7 is combined with the 100-500 lens, using Fv mode is the way to go; the two wheels available on the camera combined with the programable ring on the lens work as the optimal system. For me. :)
Thanks Edward, yes, I agree, for its price it offers incredible performance really. In nice light it excels and the reach is fantastic. I think the reason I am a little critical is I love the R7 100-500 combo, I just wish the R7 performed like the R6II in low light etc. Cheers, Duade
Excellent video and suggestions for shooting with the R7. I hope Canon plans to fix this in the R7 Mark II with a faster sensor (stacked or BSI??). A larger buffer would be welcomed too.
Thanks for diving deep into the issue. Yes, I think manufacturers should be a bit more open about such issues. I also think the R7 shouldn't be considered as the succesor to the 7D2...it never was, apparently. With fast moving subjects, like a jet figher during a fly by on an air show, even R6 Mark II just barely could keep up so R3 is the only solution for now. Everything else mirrorless from Canon is not fast enough, for now.
Thanks, yes, I agree, the R7 is really a 90D blend, not a pro APSC that we hoped for. I'm sure things will improve over time, we just need to be aware of the limitations for now. Cheers, Duade
Great video Duade, I've got the R3 and R7 and I can totally agree with what you've said. I was having these issues like many other people but didn't realise about the switching from H+ to H which will enable the camera to cope much better. It seems common sense as like you've said it's price range is a factor in the capabilities between the two. Great video as always and very well explained. All the best Rich👍
That's some good information Mr. Paton. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have put into this issue. I mainly shoot birds in flights, so an apsc isn't a good choice. I did not figure that out until I got a full frame camera as I am now much quicker on the birds with my new 500mm lens. Thanks a bunch.
A brilliant breakdown that is consistent with my own experience with the R7. It's a wonderful camera, but in my opinion it shouldn't have shipped with 30 fps when neither the autofocus or buffer can handle it. I think Canon should have saved that for the R7 Mark II, when (with any luck) they'll have a new sensor that can handle it.
Thanks Mate for this great video.. puts a lot of questions/issues i am having with my R7 to rest. Not that we need 40fps at least most of the time, but would be nice if that spec came with an "*" to note the issues at low contrast. As always love your videos but this one really helped a lot.
It actually happen to my 90D too, but from now on, when i need to shoot in burst mode, i never hold my shutter too long. Maybe it's just a little tips from my case when shooting burst, dont hold the shutter to long but just play with it, hold-release-hold-release, just like that. Hope it will help
Thanks for this video Duade. This difference in performance of the R7 depending on having more or less light is something I really notice a lot. In low light I always try to shoot in electronic first curtain, but with good lighting, I'm enjoying shooting in electronic mode. Last month I had the opportunity to photograph Mountain Gorillas in Africa and the electronic mode was perfect for not disturbing the animals. I was even surprised, because I imagined that because they were black, the R7's autofocus could suffer due to the lack of contrast, but the eye-tracking worked perfectly and I couldn't believe the amount of photos with perfect focus I had. Even with these limitations, my success rate with the R7 is much higher than with the 7d mark II (I think because I've never used an R5 or R6 and my maximum standard is the R7, I'm extremely happy with the results I'm having) .
Great to hear mate, you make very good points, if we look at our keepers the R7 still delivers on that front and in comparison to the 7D it is much better so in that regard it is a success. Congrats on the gorillas. Cheers, Duade
Duade I just stumbled on this video and it is really an awesome piece of information that you have shared. I have had my R7 since March '24 and I love the camera but I have noticed what you discuss in your video on many occasions. It is maddening! I always shoot in electronic H mode because the noise of the shutter in the mechanical modes is just not acceptable to me. I also normally shoot in Servo and was using subject tracking recently but also found some issues using the camera in this scenario i.e. focusing was hit or miss especially if the background was "busy". At least now I know that the issues I have been experiencing are to be expected although it is disappointing at least I have an answer to why the camera does what it does. One thing though what you talk about in this video seems to be slightly different than what is actually taking place if I am understanding you? I fully understand what Canon told you but what is happening is a focus shift to a secondary point from the original chosen focus point and that seems at least to me to be a separate issue or is that the behavior that the camera sensor exhibits when it cannot keep up with the shooting speed? Will the camera not keep it's point of focus if you were to say take your finger off of the BBF button that has been configured? Would that be a possible work around in your example? The problem arises when the camera is constantly trying to focus due to being in Servo mode correct? Just thinking out loud so please indulge me if you don't mind. Again thank you for this great video information!
I think camera companies should tell you about things they know you need to know. There can be so many overall that it is almost unreasonable to expect them to go into great detail. You can expect some limitations with the less expensive gear. They could state that said camera is not the best choice for low light situations where you need high frame rates, as an example, and leave it at that. I think that is reasonable disclosure. It is a plus that Canon got back to you on this issue; a plus with trusting Canon. Thanks, Duade.
Thanks Jim, yes, I guess we as customers need to take some accountability in research etc and it is difficult to list everything. I guess we are lucky to have RUclips these days. Cheers, Duade
Thank you Duade for investigating this in a very kindly and diplomatic way. It confirms my conclusions. In the days after the purchase of the R7 I discovered to my great surprise the many limitations of this camera. It is a poor flagship of Canon’s APS-C R system. The R7 is not a worthy successor of the 7D mk II. I had readily paid more to have a more refined camera. So I concluded that Canon isn’t serious about APS-C. For me portability is very important as I do fauna and flora photo inventories on day long walks in all kinds of terrain (hilly, sandy, swampy,...) often under a burning sun. Or on bicycle tours. Canon will never release long telephoto zooms for APS-C. And to make matters worse decided not to allow third party lenses. Canon is nudging bird photographers towards full frame cameras (R5, R6) and big heavy lenses, while the 1,6x crop factor is lost with them. For my bird photography I consider 800mm to be the absolute minimum reach on a telephoto zoom; 1200mm is even better. And still cropping in post is mostly applied. So I had to look elsewhere for more compact and lighter weight gear. That’s why, three weeks ago, I bought an OM-5 and Olympus 100-400mm which I am testing now. So far I am very pleased with the performance of the AF for birds in flight and with the sensor noise of this little camera. The shutter is pleasantly silent. I can add an OM-1 or Panasonic G9 II later if necessary. I have Canon cameras and lenses since 2008 (amongst others : 6D, 7D mk II, 80D, EF 100-400mm L I and II, extender 1,4x III). I use the R7 now for macro photography with my EF-S lenses and RF 35mm f1.8 macro (my only one ever RF lens). The R7 is indeed a good enough general camera and in the end I am happy with it. I also use the iPhone 13 Pro, but not for macro and close-up. The synthesized close-up images often look like watercolor paintings and have an horrible bokeh. My pictures can be found here : observation.org/users/112911/photos
Thanks for this video. I'm upgrading from my 7D mk2 to the R7. All your videos are excellent and very helpful and honest. Keep up the good work and all the best to you. Dave
Hi Duade! I think the H+ can be easily used in situations with good light and contrast when the camera focuses on larger objects, e.g human eye or face. I may be wrong but I do not expect such issues that you're talking about when shooting sport. It's just bird photography is quite a demanding task. Perhaps the most demanding one.This is probably why bird photographers prefer having the most advanced cameras. :)
I experience this issue with my R5 in sports photography. It definitely isn't as pronounced as bird photography (which I do both) but it is still an issue that is noticeable. Canon needs to fix this asap for everyone.
@@pnwbjj thanks for the insight as a sports shooter. I often shoot indoor (poorly lit sadly) basketball games, would you say I would still see a benefit in AF accuracy/consistency by using say a R6 or R6mkII compared to my current 5DmkIV?
I too shoot indoor sports so familiar with the tough lighting conditions. I do not have any of those cameras you mentioned so it would be hard for me to comment on. My only thought on it would be that you would probably have better noise results from the R6mkII than the other 2 cameras.@@gardiolan
Thanks for sharing this very valuable information, Duade! There are a lot of reasons that cause soft pictures. Knowing the imitations of the camera is very very important so that we don't waste time trying to change the wrong things and cause even more problems.
Excellent work Duade. I reported exactly this issue to Canon UK in June and they said they were not aware of the issue. I provided files and a link to your video. They had me do all sorts of things and then recommended I return my EF100-400-II for checking. The issue looked like either the R7 did not have the hardware/software for AF in servo and high speed burst, or some cameras had a fault. I did not return the lens because I didn't think this was the issue, and the most recent request after an extensive email exchange was to return the R7 for checking. I doubt now this will reveal any issue but will check with them. I suspect the camera can't keep up for the reasons given by Canon, and the reduced speed of the EF mount won't help. I am very surprised that this was not discovered during field testing. Having watched a webinar given by one of Canon's ambassadors, I was interested that the ambassador used the R5 and when asked about the R7 didn't say much. It makes me wonder! I find the rolling shutter at 30fps in electronic mode significant, though at that frame rate there are usually some good frames. The R7 is very good value (especially with the RF100-400) and I have taken some images that I am delighted with and would not have got with the 7D2. Plus I have recently been experimenting with the RAW burst for close-up and it is great. But Canon really should have been straight about the limitations and it does not reflect well on them. But better late than never, and I suspect your video highlighting the issue played a significant role in this. None of the other reviewers I watch on RUclips have highlighted the problem, which I find really surprising. Anyway, kudos to you. Hopefully Canon will release a professional APS-C model soon that allows the focus to work as advertised and banish the rolling shutter. The Fuji looks pretty good and does not cost that much more. The OM-1 is similar. But neither have the equivalent of the RF100-400 and I find APSC works really well for wildlife.
I think they should have divulged these limitations since its clear from their response they already have benchmarks to show the R7 autofocus speed is slower than the higher models or at least they could have made it a selling point for the higher models. I for one would have just saved up for a R6 mark ii instead or would have gone to a different brand. There's nothing more frustrating than getting a new camera and couldn't get it to work consistently at its 'promised' performance only to find out it was never intended for those conditions at all. Those misleading specs are reserved for cheap, knock-off, startup brands. Not from a premier, popular brand like Canon. Thank you very much for taking the time to make this video. This, just like many of your videos has always been very helpful to me. Great work! 😊
I own a R10. I faced this issue when I captured pictures of my boy when he was jumping. With 15fps mechanical shutter was not focusing on my boy's eye (Sigma 17-50mm EF ). Then I slowed the frame and it was completely fine.
Thanks duade for another great video. I too had the same problems. Thought it was me but never had the same issues with the R6 so I guessed I had a faulty camera. Sent it back to canon for testing and got the response that there was nothing wrong with the camera. Ended up selling it along with my R6 and bought the R5. Glad I did, I do miss the extra reach but the R5 is so much better.
Great explanation. It’s clear Canon falsely advertised the capability of the camera. How many bought the camera based on the frame rate? Now for canon to say it can not do 30 frames. Yes Canon should have limited the frame rate to 15 to improve the image quality and customer satisfaction.
Cheers Duade, intriguing video. I suppose specs aren't everything - the performance ends up sounding about similar to the Panasonic G9 that I use, in terms of focus shifting and usable drive speeds. Talk of Canon autofocus was causing me to think the grass might be greener, but it seems in practice it has its limitations just as Panasonic does.
Eventually reached the end and happy I did. It's almost exactly what I noticed with the A7iv for runners. Hit rate higher at lower FPS. Hit rate almost correct in bright summer sunlight dropping sharply when it gets cloudy. Inability to focus on low contrast (give it a white face with blond eyebrows and blue eyes, it's lost). I got the best results using spot tracking as opposed to wide area. Still very frustrating though.
Thank you, a very informative and needed video. For the last 3 weeks I have been struggling to learn my R7 and my issues have been just as you found them, as well as the great images taken when everything works. My other camera is an R5 and the differences between it and the R7 in regard to how they focus are sometimes hard to grasp (for me). Knowing limitations is a a key thing in photography and, often, are not spelled out for the beginner which leads to a longer learning curve. For the understanding the R7's inner workings, I recommend Canon expert Nina Bailey who writes for the EOS magazine in the UK. I bought her electronic R7 guide for about $20 US and it explains, in great detail how the camera works. Now, she is not wildlife focused so some of her approach is not relevant to wildlife/bird shooters, but she does explain some very tricky concepts. As for me, in the future I will use the R7 in selected situations and will wait for the EOS R5 II to come out to upgrade. Having the "magnification" advantage of cropped sensor is a game changer if the light and subjects are within the R7's capabilities. Wading birds yes, fast moving warblers in the understory, no way. Thanks again, enjoying it all!
Thanks Edward, bang on, right tool for the job, waders, ducks or any situation with light and you need reach the R7 is the perfect tool. Low light, best grab the R5. Thanks for the suggestion re Nina, sounds like she knows her stuff. Cheers, Duade
Thank you so much Duade for your persistence with Canon and thorough testing/research. I’ve just brought an R7 so I will be trying out your suggestions. Thanks once again 👍
Hello Duade: Thank you very much for your work. For more than a year I have been going crazy with my Canon R5, as I had a problem similar to the one you explain happening with the R7, and sometimes even worse as sometimes shooting static birds, I couldn't even find any point of the image in focus. I was using the canon 100-400 is II and Sigma 500 f4 lenses with the corresponding adapter and always with the 1.4 is III extender. One day, in a session with large birds, I removed the extender as it was clipping the wings of all the birds. Upon returning home and reviewing the images, I realized that since I had removed the extender, most of the images were perfect, while with the extender there was a very, very large percentage of out-of-focus photos. Subsequently I have repeated many times the tests with the 2 lenses and with 2 different extenders and the same thing kept happening. Also, a friend of mine, with Canon R5 + Canon 500 f4 + Extender 1.4 also had the same issue. Canon has some problem with their mirrorless cameras that they don't tell us about, despite their "sincerity". Since I don't use the extenders I am happy. I hope this comment may help someone with the same problem.
Super video, very informative. Very interesting to me as I am about to switch from DSLR to mirrorless and the R7 suits my budget as I have Canon lenses. One thing that springs to mind Duade is why shoot at 30 fps? or even 15. Even Canon's flagship DSLR 1DX Mk iii can only manage 16 fps. It seems unnecessary to me to go so fast, it just fills your card up rapidly and then you spend ages poring over so many shots deciding which is best. I doubt I would ever use such high frame rates.
It's a factor of multiple things: low-light using small F-stop lenses (e.g. f7.1) or EF to RF adapter, teleconverters, only Contrast Detector AF (higher up bodies use Phase Detect + Contrast Detect). I've played through lots of cameras, that can affect them all. I wish there were brighter telephoto RF mount lenses for wildlife. RF is still in it infancy.
From my experience with the A7iv, I noticed that I got more sharp pictures of moving subjects at lower frame rate (6 FPS) even though it doesn't reach an acceptable level. I wish Sony had admitted the limitations instead of misleadingly selling "speed and reliability" on their French website.
Hi Duade. I guess Camera Makers Tier their models to allow superior capabilities for the more expensive models. I’m an old gezzer and I’m perfectly happy with the performance of my old Toyota Corolla. Alas I wouldn’t feel the same with the Canon R7. Fabulous video that finally shakes out the realities of the R7. It’s definitely off my list and I appreciate you clueing us in from the horse’s own mouth. I also appreciate Phil and Heather Tach’s fantastic results they get from using it. But I’m not a pro and want the bestest results with the least effort. Thanks. 👍👏🏻🌈.
Good to know the resolution on this. I'm still very undecided about getting this body (lucky for me I still have the R6 as back-up camera, but I do want more pixels...) and so is my partner. As far as I recall, the push from Canon at release was that the AF was the same as in the R3, but maybe that wasn't Canon saying it outright. Maybe it was just excited pundits making that leap, when reading the specs. It seems it doesn't matter if the AF is the same when the processing isn't, so I'm not sure why on earth they made that high framerate a feature when the AF can't cope under less than perfect conditions. I mean, good light and contrast isn't always around when outdoors (to put it mildly). So, my gripe with this camera remains the same: I had preferred a more direct conversion from Canon EOS 7D ll to mirrorless, a little more expensive but better at living up to the theoretical specs. Also: no need to mirror (heh) the loud shutter noise on the 7D, though! One can live without that (and the considerate shutter-shock, if I'd understood it correctly).
Thanks Pia, agree completely, I think I am a little critical as I wanted a true 7D successor which the R7 isn't, it is more a 90D blend. This is great for most people but if you shoot in low light etc it has its downsides. Fingers crossed the R7II solves these small issues. Cheers, Duade
My advice? Wait for the R7mkII, with a deeper buffer, a proper pre-AF buffer and better AF. That said, the response does now make me appreciate the stacked sensor in my camera which has such a fast readout speed it can go up to 40fps. There again, who needs 40fps in a consumer body? I rarely go above 20fps just because I remain suspicious that any camera other than the 'rail-gun' equivalent top bodies can really cope with faster speeds.
I've always had this problem with Canon bodies. I just accept it. I'm still stuck in the Stone Age with my 4fps 5D mkii 😃!! In low contrast scenes, it struggles. Perhaps 5% miss rate. In better light, it is perfect! I can only dream of 30fps 🤯.
Hey Duade! I just recently bought an R7, I shoot with the R&, an EF-RF adapter, and my tamron 150-600mm G2 lens. I was shooting some spotted shags in a nice cliff area as they came in with nest material at 1/2500, ISO-1000, with the bird maybe 10-15m away, yet my shots came out rather soft, even with such good lighting, slow shutter speed, i'm not sure if it has to do with the subject tracking even though i think it was doing a good job but they turned out much softer than I was hoping.
Thanks again Duade for such an in depth analysis of a product. Owning the R7 I was a bit disappointed hearing this but like you point out to compare with the R5 and R3 you would expect this as of costs difference. Then I ask myself how many keepers do you need? When you are culling hundreds of photos in a session to keep a few of the best is it really an issue? Yes if the keeper rate is less you may miss out on the hero shot or the ultimate shot on occasions but im ok with this. Especially for the price we pay in Australia for Canon gear. I still am leaning towards H+ mode as I believe that overall keeper rate will be higher as of more photos taken. Basic probability factor. I will experiment with your suggested settings anyway. As far as bird in flights the R7 does seem to be a big disadvantage in comparison with the slower read out with rolling shutter and then having to shoot with a slower frame rate. You would miss out on more different wing positions at a slower rate.
Thanks Tony, great point, and you maybe right if one was to look at the actual keepers in a burst. I think personally I want to be able to trust the AF not to jump or lose the subject. But in good light I think H+ will still result in plenty of keepers. Cheers, Duade
Great job again duade,I have been using the r7 for 2 years now and am aware of all its limitations and are happy to work within them,yes I do get many soft shots,I used to have a canon 80d so the r7 is a game changer for me,we are all waiting for a pro apsc but canon does not see profits in that.
Interesting the contrast (no pun intended) between what Duade shows here on the settings for the sensitivity for auto tracking and what Jann Wegener says in his video for the same thing. Nothing wrong with that.
Duade, thanks for sharing this. I responded to your first video saying I rarely have this issue with my R7 and mentioned the only significant difference between what setting you were using and mine was I shoot in H mode not H+. My reasoning was more to do with not wanting to wade through all those images than focus issues. I rarely have the problem of one shot being sharp and next being soft. I do sometimes get the situation where it will show it's locked on the animal's eye but in the viewfinder it is obvious the camera focused on something in the background or foreground. Usually I see this if there are strong. vertical elements in back or front (think blades of grass, cattails, reeds, etc, and the subject is somewhat somewhat one bland color (think brown bird like a sparrow or a tan butterfly). In these scenarios, the camera wants to lock onto the vertical object. I've gotten used to this and either manual focus close or point the camera a different direction focus on an object and then point it back to my bird or other creature. Overall, I'm quite happy with the R7 and find it a lot of value. I came from a D500. Unlike the mythology surrounding the D500, it has its own focusing issues and other quirks that one learns to work around. If Canon ever develops an R7 mkII I'll be on the list to get one assuming it has an updated sensor. I really like the form factor and have shot crop sensors for so long I don't pay any attention to the quirks of the crop format. Thanks again for sharing.
I ignored your comments at first. Just a rabid Kiwi off his leash! But I realized I was having the same issue in this situation: using the 100-500 and 800mm f8, in forest, overcast, early morning with low light. Tks for presenting a solution. When the R7 came out the smaller size, lack of the R6 feel, lack of the R6 control wheels had me wishing for a higher priced higher featured model. I think the R7 does exactly what the market needed (APS-C, great price, two card slots, full sized battery, very high res sensor) but not enough camera for me. I was and still am hoping for a pro-grade crop sensor R7 Mark II. In the mean time will enjoy the fellow birds who envy my great shots.
Thanks for such a clear and informative explanation of the R7's AF limitations Duade!! We all learn by experience that every camera/lens has its limitations, but I agree that manufacturers should be more transparent in highlighting these, rather than end users/purchasers sending their equipment back for analysis when the user experiences issues. Any chance you could send your Robin my way? It's such a pretty little bird! Keep up the great work with your channel, much appreciated!!
Great Video. Love my R7 but have also had these issues with the AF. Overall I still feel very happy with the purchase. Knowing this limitations is helpful. I see 15 fps as plenty in most situations. Thanks for posting this!
Thanks for this information. My Canon R7 is arriving today and I'll be heading out to start learning it tomorrow. This should really keep me from getting frustrated.
Great video. This is super helpful and thought provoking. Just yesterday I was struggling to get sharp shots of a mostly dark hummingbird, while I had more success with the other species, which had more contrast. Now I know why!
I had similar issues when using my Sony A7 IV, even though it has the same CPU as the Sony A1. As a programmer, I guess it's an asynchronous nature of the computations, and it doesn't align the computations. CPU performance might be an issue, but it's not 100% that it's the root cause. Their advice might not apply because you still have the same distance between computations. My understanding of Canon's suggestion: - You'll take fewer shots with a wrong focus, at the cost of not shooting photos with potentially wrong focus. This stuff can be a part of the specification, but I am sure there will be a project manager or head of delivery who will say it will expose the company's secrets. I am 75% sure that camera's algorithm operate on a proxy "image" combined with sensor data, and the proxy "image" might be out of sync with the real image.
Yeah .Then add multi threading + parallel computation into it. you got pure headache full of madness 😂. In any AF algorithm , the cpu takes previous image data sample for predicting next af actuation. The more sample the better . To get more data sample you need faster sensor readout. For example 5, 4, 3, 2, .... What do you think the next number is? Its 1 But how about the next number of 1, 3, .. It could be 5 (constant 2 addition) Or 7 (multiplication of 2 addition ) Or else. Thats the problem with a7iv
In R7 on top of that , you also need to consider that this camera sensor has aps-c fsi sensor. Which means it had more junk data(noise) included in sample data to compute. Let say you suppose to predict What's the follow up number of 2,3,5,... Instead you got to Predict the follow up number of 2, 4, 5,.... Lol (4 is junk data or noise) 😂
To help get rid of the blackout between shots in H-mode shooting you need to enable the High Speed Display option (Red menu, Page 8). This option is only available when NOT shooting in H+ mode and will basically eliminate the blackout, but there's still a stutter to it for things like panning shots. Might want to give it a try though and see if it's something that helps you when shooting in that mode, it's nice to know it's an option
Thanks, that is very helpful, I wonder why it is not standard. Cheers, Duade
It doesn't truly get rid of blackout because the camera does a "slideshow" effect to cover this up. Turning on High Speed Display basically lets the camera display some motion between images when shooting in H mode, but it doesn't truly eliminate blackout (it looks like ~20fps). Same story on the R6/R6II and R5. R3 is the only one in Canon's lineup that has a stacked sensor and is thus capable of showing 60fps+ motion between shots when shooting with electronic shutter.
I know it is a lot to ask for a cheaper tier but this is one reason I still miss the OVF and seeing true motion between the shots I take.
@@fylphotography9269so you're saying my R3 has spoiled me, and I'll get annoyed if I move to other RF cameras for fast action. That's disappointing.
While I do appreciate Canon ultimately being honest when questioned about this issue, I really think they should be more upfront about it in their literature and marketing materials. It's no good to have a camera that can shoot 30 fps if a large percentage of your shots are out of focus. It seems a bit deceptive of Canon not to make consumers aware of this information. Thanks so much Duade, for doing the research and helping all of us budding wildlife photographers to have a clearer picture of our gear and its capabilities. You are simply the best!
Aye I'm with you on this. I understand they want to sell cameras and that 30fps sounds great in the marketing....but I'd rather they just restricted it to 10 or 15fps and we got more reliable AF.
I used to shoot with the D500 that's only 10fps and it's fantastic for BIF
I definetely agree but every brand has done / does it
Exactly, no point in doing such a marketing
@@ajc1482 Still the camera with all the troubles comes off with a higher keeper rate than the 10 fps limited cameras - especially if you switch the viewfinder to OVF simulation where the viewfinder - and by extension the autofocus - has a higher contrast image to work with.
Agreed disclosure up-front would be nice. As a practical matter, I can't see any camera mfg being that forthcoming and potentially confusing in marketing materials, perhaps their technical literature would be the place. ALL cameras have limitations when you push them to their spec limits as we users tend to do :-)
If I heard correctly, most of Duade's 30 fps images were properly in focus. Enough bad ones to raise a flag, but not enough to turn him off to the camera. Personally I'd be willing to take the "risk" to use H+ IF it allows me to capture rapid motion of a flighty subject. Especially in good lighting situations.
Watching this video should be mandatory for anyone purchasing a mirrorless camera. Well done Duade.
I talked to some specialists from Canon Germany and they actually suggested using the Auto-AF-Case. The other cases are remnants from the DSLRs, with a predictive Autofocus that can cause defocus because the camera predicts the subject at the wrong place (even with subjects that are still).
In the Auto-Case the Camera is set in a totally different mode which should perform better.
Also I think the problems are caused by the size of the pixels and probably the image processor. While the processor officially is the same as in the higher models, I wouldn't be surprised that its performance is limited somehow compared to an R6 or R5. We also have to consider the physical size of the pixels. Translated to fullframe the R7 has a resolution of over 80MP, which means the pixels are very small even compared to an R5, which has it's own challenges for the autofocus.
I personally prefer to have the ability to shoot 30fps if I need it. Even with some shots out of focus, most of the time I got more sharp images in total than I would if I shot with a lower framerate.
Appreciate your work 👍
What do you mean by "auto case"?
I bought my R7 in December or January. I started using it as my first mirrorless camera, along with a Sigma 150-600mm, which is quite heavy (1st super telephoto lens as well for me). At this time I was on 30fps. So the learning curve was quite steep, and it took me a while to start getting more consistency in my sharp photos.
I was overwhelmed with so many images shot and to choose from, and came down to H (15fps). To my amazement I was getting more sharp shots and also a lot less warbling. I could see almost no difference from one photo to the next. Ever since I've been using Electronic in H, and 1st curtain for BiF to remove any warping (have this on set in C1 for easy access).
Thank you for the video, it confirms my theory as well and added more insight.
I noticed this same results as well. Like you also went to H because I was overwhelmed by the number of shots I was taking at 30 fps, I purchased my camera in May, so I guess beginner’s luck can be a thing lol.
Thanks for sharing your in field experience which confirms what Canon are saying and is very helpful for those with the camera. Thanks again, Cheers, Duade
Hi! Your comment was very useful to me as I also have the R7 and Sigma 150-600mm. I've gotten fantastic images so far but once in a while, it does loose focus. So frustrating! I shoot in H+ so will take your advice and go down to H and see what happens. Thanks for your advice :)
@@clairehachey2189 thank you! I really hope it helps!
Thank you for this information. I too have noticed this problem which is somewhat annoying, particularly when you are shooting a bird you don’t often see. I totally agree, manufacturers should be more open about their products limitations. They could have made it better and charged a little more. As a hobbyists photographer, I don’t have the means to just go out and buy another camera. It was good of you to enquire with Canon and it was refreshing that they were honest with their feedback. Thank you.
I fully agree with you...
At the end of the day all cameras have limitations and quirks that have to be worked around.
Canon haven't technically done anything wrong, they said the camera can shoot at 30fps and it can...there's just draw backs from using that speed, to be honest 30fps is over kill anyway. 10-15 is the sweet spot.
Thanks for your comment, I guess we are lucky to have forums and RUclips etc to help us find out these things. Cheers, Duade
Kudos to Canon for their honesty. Without you taking the time to send your camera in and to perform your tests following their recommendations people would have the wrong expectations and be set up for disappointment. Thank you.
Kudos? I'd disagree. They shouldn't have marketed the camera with specifications which the cameras actual performance can't match. I'm sure they tested the camera and knew that. They need to change their marketing specs to show the actual performance and issue out a press release stating the problems. Without Duade I might have bought this camera. So kudos is actually to Duade!
@@af2w131f Well, Canon would argue that the AF is not a limitation in good, high contrast light. In lower light with poor contrast, that’s where the issue manifests itself and H+ is a problem.
Thanks mate, yes, I was happy they were upfront about it and give them credit for that. I guess the room for improvement is educating buyers on this limitation. In fairness a lot of this is buried in the manual but can be hard to find for new owners. I guess that is why we are lucky to have RUclips so we can learn off others. Cheers, Duade
Kudos for what ? The great influencers on vacancion induced the ideea that the r7 has the same autofocus level as bigger cameras from canon, and even bether than the z9. Remember ?
Thanks so much for your persistence in determining the issue with the R7. I've owned 8 previous Canons (all APSC), and have never had a problem with any of them....until the R7. This has been a very frustrating camera. Thankfully, I saw your video suggestions 2 days ago, just in time for a photo session of the Blue Angels Practice Flights today. I adjusted my settings per your suggestions in the video. There were low, dark clouds which compounded the low light situation by not allowing the smoke trails from the jets to dissipate. Now we had clouds and smoky haze with medium blue jets running from 500 - 720 mph. I was nervous just to depend on my R7 so I brought my 80D for some shots as well. I am pleased to say that the majority of my shots with the R7 turned out as well as could be expected under the conditions. I feel a little more pleased and confident using the R7, knowing and understanding its limitations, and how to deal with them. (This still doesn't excuse what I see as an issue with Canon not being forthcoming with the R7 specs so that customers can make a smart purchasing decision). Thanks so much, again!!
Your commitment is something do be admired. After so many videos dedicated to the R7, you come back and produce content for all of us that don't have the luxury to change bodies every now and then. Thanks for taking the time and energy to provide us with this information. Cheers
Thanks, it is my pleasure and I am happy to help, have fun with your camera. Cheers, Duade
@@Duade Thanks Duade. Pity Canon is so misleading and wicked in their sales effort.
Here's my 2 cents and ive talked about this in a few videos about the R7 and any mirrorless camera for AF. IF your subject is not moving (outside your depth of field) then get your focus and get OFF the AF button. If the subject will move out of the DoF then get back on it. This becomes a skill.
What is happening is that AF is hunting all the time, and if it decides something else is the point it will move point. And thus the motors of the lens have to adjust. Now you have 2 things going on, the motor for 1 and the sensor readout for 2. Result - focus, focus, out of focus, focus, etc.
So end advice from my use, get your focus, get off the button, touch the button again as you need to. A 30 for burst will be fine in that situation.
And YES you need good contrast on the R7. I lost a whole session in iffy light as I forgot to raise the exposure to get better contrast and everything came up 'off'.
That’s exactly what I do with the r10. Works like a charm.
Thanks mate, great advice and makes a lot of sense, I think it is just a matter of changing habits. Having the R5 as my primary I probably get lazy as I don't seem to have many issues, I can simply hold down the AF button and it just works. But I will try your advice next time I am out with the R7. Cheers, Duade
yeah its double the sensor speed. If I go from Z9 to R7 I really see the speed and algorithms more at work@@Duade
Is it the same for both mechanical shutter mode and electronic mode? Reason being, I think the 15fps in Mech. mode is enough for my needs, and I can avoid any rolling shutter issues as well.
Thanks Duade for pursuing this. I have the same issue with the R6. The focus point is on the bird’s eye and it is out of focus. I have missed many great wildlife shots and I thought it was me. I only use 12 frames per second with electronic first curtain shutter. I’m constantly saying to my wife how is this out of focus when the red square is clearly on the eye. She uses Sony and suggests I should change!
I’m also an R6 user and experience exactly the same problem.
Thank you for your tenacity. Those of us who do not have the weight of your reputation applaud your efforts. Your effort has helped me understand my camera much better. Thank you very much!!!!
Thanks Chris, not sure my reputation has much influence but if it helps to educate and get answers then I am happy. Cheers, Duade
So in other words (as we already knew) the R7 is not really a replacement for the 7D mk 2. Canon has simply abandoned the idea of a professional APS-C body.
I'm impressed and extremely pleased that you actually got an honest answer from Canon. Keep up the good work!
Should manufacturers be honest and open about the limitations of their products, you ask?
Well, that would be nice. But can we expect that they'll ever print on the box: This camera does not have as good AF as (blabla)? I don't think so.
Should Nikon announce that their P1000 is not comparable in image quality to a system body with a big prime? Or are they allowed to assume that people should be able to figure that out on their own?There are actually people who I know to have bought the P1000 expecting it to be as good as a DSLR or mirrorless. I pointed out that if that were true, every sports and wildlife photographer would be using it, so the fact that they don't, pretty much proves that it isn't as good. But they were still convinced I was wrong, no doubt because they were in love with the camera.
So if we buy an R7 expecting the AF to be as good as the R3, R5 or R6ii, I don't think it's Canon's fault because they didn't warn us. We should be smart enough to figure that out on our own.
Or at least smart enough to watch some of Duade Paton's videos before making the purchase.
Just a side note… Canon and reviewers at the time of launch of R7 were claiming it had the same ai autofocus system on par with the R3. If that was true then some intentional gimping was done to hurt the R7 as to not compete with the R3. But that’s another conversation. Bottom line… honesty on the part of Canon and other manufacturers is needed.
Seems that sensor readout speed is the most important characteristics of mirrorless cameras for wildlife photography, as AF and rolling shutter are greatly impacted by it.
I agree. I gotta give Duade a lot of thanks for him really bringing it out in the open.
Thanks, yes, it seems so and I am sure this will improve over time. Cheers, Duade
If EOS R7 readout speed is constant regardless of scene brightness and frame rate, and if the tracking misfocus occurs only during certain conditions (i.e. low light, low contrast scenes) then the misfocus issue is not related to the readout speed. I suppose that misfocus would be due to some computational issue related to focus tracking, or some other cause.
Big thank you to Duade for the deep reviews of camera gear. It’s a big help to the community of bird photographers.
@@Ramodez I wonder if af point readout speed is coupled with sensor readout.
Thank you Duade for contacting Canon and sharing their feedback here. Definitely this will help lot of canon r7 owners to know the limitation of the camera and better adapt to it.
This honesty from Canon makes me appreciate their cameras a little more. For the price it’s an amazing tool! Thanks for all your great videos!
My R6 is the same. Canon yet again dropping the ball. Ppl shouldnt applaud them for their honesty if they provided products with these faults without telling or fixing.
I agree. The are using features like high shutter speed to promote their products. I fact they are lying, realising and admitting after sales that this is not working.
I am truly upset. I know before I would definately opted for another option. What a shame Canon.
Thanks for taking the effort in testing to figure out this issue with the R7. Props to Canon for being honest about their response to you. The high frame rate is one of the main things that attracted me to purchasing this camera coming from the 90D, but to be honest, I almost never shoot at that rate. Dealing with that many files can be so daunting so I generally never shoot past the 15, and in some cases even less. The lower contrast seems to be an issue with lenses as well, and I typically use the Sigma 150-600 C on my R7 or the RF 100-400 but even with the inconstancies of these 2 combinations I still get a better keeper rate vs my older 90D as far as photos being sharp. As a hobbyist shooter the issue doesn't really annoy me that much. Someone using the camera for their livelihood I could understand the disappointment. Having picked up the R6MII just after release, I find I have to force myself to use the R7 now although I do take it in my car as a daily when I go to work, but If I am going out for some more serious shooting I will use the R6MII and use the R7 as a back up, the R6mII is just a so much better camera in autofocus and readout speed, Iso performance and dynamic range, but that is expected with the price difference, maybe the lower MP helps with the R6MII, which is the only thing I dislike about the R6MII. I plan on keeping the R7 for now but who knows for how long with more bodies coming out in the near future.
Thanks for sharing your experience Tony and I agree with everything you have said, the R7 is a real paradox, it offers so many wonderful features but has a few issues that prevent it being the camera I had hoped it would be, this is not Canons fault, more my personal expectation of the camera having been a long time 7D user. I agree re the R6II, that is just a fun camera to use. I can only hope Canon do give us a pro APSC next time around with the R7II. Cheers, Duade
Good work, Paton.
Maybe you could suggest Canon to give us a firmware with the option to set the value of FPS in Electronic Mode.
Or at least a new fixed option with 8 or 10 fps.
Thank you very much. I had the R5, R7 and now R3. The R7 will be used only during good light since the RF 100-500 produces 800mm reach. $1,500 R7 is still better than 7DMII.
R7 MII should be better.
R3 for low light is my preferred body for wildlife during the early morning and evening. Just add a 1.4!extender to get to 700mm for the same 100-500mm lens.
I have until now believed the deficiency to be my amateurism, it is good to know it's not me, it's you the camera. Thank you. Cheers Warner
Someone had pointed out that most of the people who are complaining about this issue are those who have been using higher end cameras like the R5 and R3 and people, like myself, who upgraded to the R7 don’t seem to notice or mind this issue.
I think for its price the R7 is doing exactly what I expected it to.
Thanks, yes, you are correct and in isolation the R7 AF is very good, just not as good as the more expensive bodies as one would expect. Cheers, Duade
Surely the main aim of any camera is FOCUS! Dread.
hi Duade, thank you for taking the time to address the issue and return to it when Canon responded. There is a setting in the camera to turn down the volume of the shutter when you are shooting in standard H mode. I typically shoot in this continuous mode and the shutter is very low. yellow menu/wrench folder #3 volume. you can then see to adjust the shutter volume! hope that helps with using the H mode over H+ and keeping your volume low for birds etc.
The volume setting is only through headphones
Some very useful information in your video. I have another brand of camera and sometimes the focus point indication is on the subject but the actual focus is somewhere else. You explanation could apply to my camera as well. Thank you for all the work that goes into your videos they are all excellent, informative and honest. Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge.
My previous camera the A7R IV had this problem, the focus jumps were not as severe they were jumping to the tail or legs. Part of the reason was the lack of bird eye AF but it happened much more in overcast conditions which means it was a contrast problem. I'm now using the Sony A1 and it's confidence inspiring to go through my images and see no strange autofocus shifts.
Congrats on the camera mate, seems the readout is pretty important when it comes to AF accuracy. Cheers, Duade
Wow Duane, I'm so impressed on your follow-through with this! I'm grateful to hear this too because I returned my R7 within 10 days of purchase for the same reasons that you reported. Having your validation is good because I now know I wasn't crazy! Would I buy it again? I don't think so. I do like that Canon gave you an honest answer though. I've been using the Fuji xh2s and super happy since.Thanks again.
As already written in the other video, I also had this problem with the R5 (previously with the R6).
Surely during continuous shots the problem is that of the fps. But it also happens when you press on the recognition without shooting. It starts following the eye then automatically goes backwards or forwards keeping that recognition square.
So it's something that goes beyond the shots. Also in the video I see that the background focuses on you... it happens to me with the R5 even in good light conditions!
What do you think about it ?
Same here - with the R6. I constantly go into DPP to see where my focus point is and it is obvious that it is not on the same plane as the box. I do feel this is a software problem but I don't think we'll see any more updates for the R6. Its a little disappointing that Canon has made this camera obsolete in 3 years.
For sure. The R5 AF drift is infuriating given the price point.
Thanks Duade. The R7 is my first mirrorless camera and my first with tracking etc. I thought that that the odd soft shot I was getting on high speed continuous was down to me. But now having looked back over my photos, I am pretty sure I’ve been experiencing the same issues you have described in low light/low contrast scenarios. I am still learning about what this camera can do (previous camera was a 7D2), so the advice you give on settings is invaluable. Thank you so much.
I remember them pushing the false idea that the focus system was derived from the R3. I agree it's most likely the capability of the sensor that cause the af to lose focus between shots. And I think experience of many has shown the limitation of these crop sensors, they have always been noisy and poor performers in low light. In great light they perform quite well. For the price, it's still a very good value.
The Fuji H2S has the same issue with 40fps and it’s a stacked sensor. The best is to shoot with „lower“ framerates, on the R7 as on the H2S.
I had a tough experience with my Canon 90D and Tamron 100-600, about 40% of my shots were not sharp due to focusing issues. Now with my R7 and Canon 100-500 I almost never have these issues. Even with 30fps, it is rare to have OOF shots. I went from only 60% in focus to around 95% in focus. I recently went to a black bear sanctuary which had low contrast and didn’t notice any more out of focus shots than usual.
I've heard many complaints about the 90D and to a lesser extent the 80D with regard to focus tracking. It seems like they were designed for a lower shooting speed than the camera was capable of and many wished there was a 7fps option for the 90D. I had the 80D and it was hit-or-miss with my 150-600 Tamron but I felt like more often than not it was the lens (there was an occasional misfocusing that would occur around 20m). I generally used the middle 9-point AF and find it mostly good enough for birds in flight except something like swallows) However I find that SLRs tend to pause focus when they struggle to track a subject and that is actually an advantage whereas Canon's mirrorless start AF hunting/pulsing rapidly which leads to more missed shots.
Thats right. I'm a 90d user and i've got the same experience, especially when i used viewfinder to make a shots. different result when im used to shot with the screen, i can get more sharp images. i dont know how, but yeahhh sometimes it's just annoy in some moments
There were 2 problems, unfortunately with the 90D from the research I did. I had one for about a week and quickly returned it. Canon "smushed" (not the appropriate technical term) the sensor from the 5DMii for the 90D resulting in very close pixel density. Due to the pixel density, any little movement at all was recorded as an unsharp photo. Also, if I remember correctly, this also resulted in the sensor being the equivalent of a 58MP sensor in a full frame camera, and most lenses don't have the "resolving power" (not my words) to handle the sensor. I had traded in my 80D for the 90D assuming it was an upgrade. It was a frustrating week of owning the 90D, and thankfully, the store still had my 80D. I took the 90D back, and happily got my 80D in return.
@@laurieschaerer7311 Iyaps, that's right, only some of the right lenses can accommodate the capabilities that the 90d has, but so far I still like the results even though it has to be a bit tricky to take photos with perfect results.
The best photos are easy to get only with abundant light sources, it becomes a bit difficult when it gets a bit dark.
Thank you very much for doing such a detailed follow-up video on this issue and for suggesting a workaround.
I'm deeply disappointed in Canon for not being upfront about this whole thing in the first place.
At the launch of the R7, it was reported that it had a similar autofocus or shared similar AF characteristics with R3 (I dont remember the exact wording). Nowhere was it mentioned that the AF was inferior to the R5/R3 or that you would have to shoot at 6,5 fps/8 fps in lower light/contrast situations.😠
is it a case of marketing hype or of a company misleading the customers? 😠
I just wish Canon had been more upfront about the whole thing, because that would have influenced significantly my decision, just like Canon refusal to have third-party lenses manufacturers offer AF capable RF mount lenses (that was clear to me at the time).
Again, I very much appreciate your dedication to helping R7 users understand the limitations of their camera, and I'm now a subscriber (don't know why I wasn't already one).
Cheers
Thank you so much for all of your videos concerning this camera. I bought it on Thursday and was able to do some bird photography on Sunday. I shot still birds, flying birds, bird in contrast, those in low light, etc...Needless to say I was pretty upset with the results. I would say 99% of my photos were out of critical focus on the eyes of birds. I even have the "show focus points" plugin you mentioned and the box is right on the eye but when I zoom in 200% it's fuzzy. That was on a still subject in high contrast. I was handheld ISO 200 with shutter of 1/800 with a canon 100-400mm ii lens and canon ef-r adapter. I was so hopeful for this to finally replace my old 7Dii. But I compared the pictures I took today of a still flamingo to those I took 2 months ago of a black skimmer at 200% magnification and the 7Dii beats the R7 outright, it's not even a fair fight. I have no clue why all of my shots are not critically sharp and I don't want to jump through Canon hoops and settings to maybe have a 50% success rate. I have a better keeper rate with the 7D. I just googled why this was happening and came across your videos. Thanks so much for being honest, I think Canon dropped the ball on this one and I will be returning this purchase.
I still have my 7Dmk2 works fine, also have a 100-400mm II and a couple of amazing Canon EF L tele-primes and some old 1d series cams. I initially got excited when first announced did a pre order waited almost 2 months then cancelled it. I might have been better off getting the R5 but in the UK we were talking £4299 I thought no way paying that for a non stacked or non BSI sensor cam ....it's too old school. I'm about to order the Nikon Z8 and a 180-600mm. Canon are too slow with sensor dev and rely on paper big number specs and heavy sales marketing. I like Duade reviews he doesn't get frequent visits from Canon money truck like some.
Thank you for this video! I think it cannot be expected from the manufacturer to tell you all the limitations upfront, after all they want you to buy their camera, and the R7 does perform well in good light, it seems.
I was lucky enough to be able to give the R7 a try as an upgrade for my 90d, and finally decided to go with Fuji instead. One of the reasons was the slow focusing of my Sigma 150-600 C lens in the shop environment (hard work due to the poor light). But that was only one of many reasons, to be fair.
For its price, the R7 is a great camera, and thumbs up to Canon for their honest answer, I’m impressed.👍
Thanks for your comment and I agree with what you have said, Cheers, Duade
Hi Duade. Thanks for the video, much appreciated. It's good that Canon came back with an honest explanation and at least we can now get on with using our R7's without wondering if there is something wrong with our particular example. I've read many of the comments already posted and not sure I can add anything particularly new. Although I must say the comment someone made about marketing people versus engineering people within Canon certainly seems more than probable. We still need to remember that it is only a few years ago that we could not even dream of the autofocus performance of the R7 (and quite a few other mirrorless cameras), never mind the R3's and Z8/9's of this world. I've had some fantastic results from my R7 and I'm sure many more to come - although I'm also sure I'll be looking carefully at the R7 Mk2 as and when it makes and appearance :) . Thanks again John
Thanks John, totally agree and we are quick to forget about DSLR AF, the R7 is a pretty big jump from the 7D and for its price offers wonderful features. I am being a bit critical and on reflection I still get many wonderful shots as you do. Cheers ,Duade
The most important thing for a camera is to deliver sharp pictures. I think it is really strange that if you use the R7 at full shooting framerates you are not garuanteed to have that many sharp shots. I was really hoping the R7 was a replacement for my 7Dii. Guess I’ll have to wait a little longer. Maybe Canon will surprise us with an R4? :-) Thanx for the video. Keep m coming!
Thanks once again Duade, that was excellent! I also returned my R7 to the Canon lab and they also said there was nothing wrong with it. I’ll persevere with the settings you suggest and see if I experience an improvement. I don’t remember any firmware updates coming out for the R7 but I wonder if improvements could be made. It would be nice to think canon were trying to improve it but I’ll not hold my breath!
Great work Duade, thank again.
Best, Julian.
Thank you for doing the work to get this clarified by Canon. I have been saying in the comments on this and other fora that the issue was data throughput of the focus configuration that offers such high shutter speeds and rates, and that data bus was an issue with the R7 specifically, but basically was a voice in the wilderness.
Canon marketing have a bit of a history of pushing features that cannot be supported - overheating of the R5 when used as the video camera in the much-touted high resolution modes they really featured, for example. That created an expectation that could not be supported for some time, until several firmware updates, but by then the damage was done.
In the case of the R7, attention fell on the Sigma 150-600c as the culprit, but with the R5, R6 and R6II units I shoot with, that was never an issues, and Sigma went to the trouble of putting out a video claiming that there was no issue with their lenses and the Canon R-series MILC bodies when shooting birds on the wing - although I noticed that they demonstrated their assertions with the R6 body and not the R7. That was in the context of a lot context of perceived issues with 3rd party legacy lenses. It was not so much the lens, as the focusing system for that configuration, and what was expected of it - poor marketing and communications Canon.
The sensor readout speed for the density of the 33MP APS-C sensor, at high electronic shutter and burst speeds needs a BSI/Stacked sensor. It is no coincidence that the R3 camera used for sports, which demands a high shutter speed and fast tracking, has a more modest sensor size of FF 24MP and DOES have a BSI/stacked sensor, decent data buffer along with high speed CF-Express card capability to support high shutter burst speeds. In the R7 the focus, shutter, processor, and buffer data transfer are not up to the advertised H+ speed they promoted. Basically the system bus system is out of balance. It develops a backlog of data that cannot be processed in time to allow all of the other components to work effectively. I actually shoot in mechanical most of the time, but the mechanical shutter in the R7 sounds like a tinker's cart.
I looked at the R7 when it came out, came to the conclusion that it was built to a price and found that disappointing as I truly, truly wanted a flagship APS-C MILC that was a valid successor to the 7DII. I will re-evaluate my decision to avoid the R7 when a MkII version comes out if that has the elements that are missing. On the other hand, if the R5MkII comes out as suggested with a BSI/stacked 60MP sensor, I will likely go in that direction and simply use either 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes when necessary, as I do now.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Trevor and yes, the readout speed in these mirrorless bodies does seem to be the heart of the system. I noticed the AF difference to the R5/R6II almost immediately but was confused as I thought the R7 had the same AF system so always suspected my camera was at fault. But over time I suspect your explanation is logical. I imagine Canon themselves would have data on the number of returns or complaints re the R7 AF and will hopefully make necessary improvements in future models. Cheers, Duade
Good video, Duade. I got my R7 a year ago to replace my beloved 7D MKII which I have used for sports and wildlife photography. I like a lot of things about the R7, I already owned the R but wanted the crop sensor mirrorless as I am transitioning to RF mount lenses. But as much as I like the R7 I feel it was pushed out a bit before it was really ready. The focus issue you discuss is one reason, I have noticed it on occasion with my camera as well and also shutter bounce. Another thing is the lack of a vertical battery grip. A lot of my shots, typically with longer lenses are verticals and my wrist gets so tired with the R7 not having the comfort of the buttons on a battery grip. I also like the balance better with long lenses and while one can easily swap out a dead battery I just prefer having 2 in the grip. I have a feeling in the 2024 we might see an R7 MkII which will have a much improved focusing system as well as less rolling shutter and finally a dedicated vertical battery grip. Just my 2 cents!
Excellent video, Duade. Thank you very much for going to the trouble and getting the answers. Your prescription for minimizing the issue sounds very similar to what a friend does with his R7. (To this point, I've tended to take about 3 times the number of shots of each subject because I assumed 2/3 of the images would be bad from the R7.)
Thanks for keeping us updated on this subject Duade!
As an R7 Owner i want to add my two cents to this.
I did some tracking AF tests with a subject rotating in a circle shooting bursts of over a second.
The subject was moving back and forward by at least 20 cm so this test wasn't aimed at the focus shifting on a still target. Tested with the official RF-EF adapter and the Canon EF 24-70 f2.8.
I discovered that the higher the framerate the better the camera tracked the subject. The slower the framerate, especially with EFCS, the longer the screen stays dark even though the sensor should be "open" for much longer than with the high framerates. This seems to be true even when using electronic shutter for some reason. By far the best tracking was achieved with 30 fps and electronic shutter.
A second thing that i found is related to the exposure simulation. I didn't do any proper testing on this yet so its mainly speculation.
It seems like the exposure simulation affects the performance of subject tracking. When manually adjusting the ISO and thus under or overexposing the image in the preview, the subject tracking seems to be affected. I assumed that the processor of the camera would adjust the exposure while the sensor would capture the best image possible (for the preview, not the actual photo) so the AF has the best preview to work with.
With exposure simulation disabled the tracking seems to be better since the exposure for the final image doesn't effect the preview exposure and AF.
Again, this is mainly speculation from me since i didn't to any proper testing yet.
Great observation Peter, ExpSIM could possibly rob cpu cycles from its tracking ability... this is one setting that can be turned off.
Hi Duade, went through much the same experience as you with the R7. Not sure if it was luck, experience, or a little of both, but I switched to H mode a while back as a test because I found most of my focus issues were in poor contrast environments. Great that you spoke to Canon and helped validate this suspicion, and great work again mate. Garry.
Thanks Garry, nice to hear I am not alone and you figured this out on your own. Yes, I was happy Canon were so honest. Cheers, Duade
Hi Duade, It's really helpful to me. Once I dialed down from H++ to H, my keeper rate increase noticeably. I am shooting Tamron 100-400mm on R7 and really struggling, especially during low light conditions. Thumbs up, mate!
Thanks Rex, great to hear, Cheers ,Duade
5:53 So, those numbers between the R7 and the R5 are almost exactly 30 and 60fps. (16.67 and 33.3ms respectively). That 2ms difference for the R7 doesn't allow for much compute time, so yeah... Makes sense to me to limit to 15FPS with AF to give much more compute time after the sensor is read and processed.
Thanks for the update. This is what I was expecting.. it's a much cheaper body than the R5, and whilst shooting from a hide with a friend who has the R7 we also noticed that the hit rate on the R5 was much higher.. I would be interested to see how the budget R8 performs.
As an additional comment, we should all keep in mind is for everything else except fast moving low light extreme bird photography, the EOS R7 holds its own. I was thinking that for use on an African safari where you take photos of large animals and landscapes and people, the cameras performance should be excellent. The crop factor advantage is huge if the light is right. Using a Canon 100-500mm lens and with the R7 crop factor, at 360mm you have a 576mm equivalent at f5.6. At 151mm, you have a 242mm equivalent at 4.5. Of course, at 500mm you have an 800mm equivalent at 7.1. Finally, I have found that when the R7 is combined with the 100-500 lens, using Fv mode is the way to go; the two wheels available on the camera combined with the programable ring on the lens work as the optimal system. For me. :)
Thanks Edward, yes, I agree, for its price it offers incredible performance really. In nice light it excels and the reach is fantastic. I think the reason I am a little critical is I love the R7 100-500 combo, I just wish the R7 performed like the R6II in low light etc. Cheers, Duade
Excellent video and suggestions for shooting with the R7. I hope Canon plans to fix this in the R7 Mark II with a faster sensor (stacked or BSI??). A larger buffer would be welcomed too.
Thanks, yes, that would be ideal, more Fuji XH2S specs would be fantastic. Cheers, Duade
Thank you for the follow up on this issue, I still love my R7 and will try these settings out as a work around!
Thanks mate, it is still a lovely camera that delivers excellent photos, I just hope this small issues are fixed in the version 2. Cheers, Duade
Thanks for diving deep into the issue. Yes, I think manufacturers should be a bit more open about such issues. I also think the R7 shouldn't be considered as the succesor to the 7D2...it never was, apparently. With fast moving subjects, like a jet figher during a fly by on an air show, even R6 Mark II just barely could keep up so R3 is the only solution for now. Everything else mirrorless from Canon is not fast enough, for now.
Thanks, yes, I agree, the R7 is really a 90D blend, not a pro APSC that we hoped for. I'm sure things will improve over time, we just need to be aware of the limitations for now. Cheers, Duade
Very nice to hear Canon was forthcoming! Thanks for doing the footwork and making this video.
Great video Duade, I've got the R3 and R7 and I can totally agree with what you've said. I was having these issues like many other people but didn't realise about the switching from H+ to H which will enable the camera to cope much better. It seems common sense as like you've said it's price range is a factor in the capabilities between the two. Great video as always and very well explained. All the best Rich👍
That's some good information Mr. Paton. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have put into this issue. I mainly shoot birds in flights, so an apsc isn't a good choice. I did not figure that out until I got a full frame camera as I am now much quicker on the birds with my new 500mm lens. Thanks a bunch.
A brilliant breakdown that is consistent with my own experience with the R7. It's a wonderful camera, but in my opinion it shouldn't have shipped with 30 fps when neither the autofocus or buffer can handle it. I think Canon should have saved that for the R7 Mark II, when (with any luck) they'll have a new sensor that can handle it.
Thanks Mate for this great video.. puts a lot of questions/issues i am having with my R7 to rest. Not that we need 40fps at least most of the time, but would be nice if that spec came with an "*" to note the issues at low contrast. As always love your videos but this one really helped a lot.
It actually happen to my 90D too, but from now on, when i need to shoot in burst mode, i never hold my shutter too long. Maybe it's just a little tips from my case when shooting burst, dont hold the shutter to long but just play with it, hold-release-hold-release, just like that. Hope it will help
Thanks for this video Duade. This difference in performance of the R7 depending on having more or less light is something I really notice a lot. In low light I always try to shoot in electronic first curtain, but with good lighting, I'm enjoying shooting in electronic mode. Last month I had the opportunity to photograph Mountain Gorillas in Africa and the electronic mode was perfect for not disturbing the animals. I was even surprised, because I imagined that because they were black, the R7's autofocus could suffer due to the lack of contrast, but the eye-tracking worked perfectly and I couldn't believe the amount of photos with perfect focus I had.
Even with these limitations, my success rate with the R7 is much higher than with the 7d mark II (I think because I've never used an R5 or R6 and my maximum standard is the R7, I'm extremely happy with the results I'm having) .
Great to hear mate, you make very good points, if we look at our keepers the R7 still delivers on that front and in comparison to the 7D it is much better so in that regard it is a success. Congrats on the gorillas. Cheers, Duade
Duade I just stumbled on this video and it is really an awesome piece of information that you have shared. I have had my R7 since March '24 and I love the camera but I have noticed what you discuss in your video on many occasions. It is maddening! I always shoot in electronic H mode because the noise of the shutter in the mechanical modes is just not acceptable to me. I also normally shoot in Servo and was using subject tracking recently but also found some issues using the camera in this scenario i.e. focusing was hit or miss especially if the background was "busy". At least now I know that the issues I have been experiencing are to be expected although it is disappointing at least I have an answer to why the camera does what it does. One thing though what you talk about in this video seems to be slightly different than what is actually taking place if I am understanding you? I fully understand what Canon told you but what is happening is a focus shift to a secondary point from the original chosen focus point and that seems at least to me to be a separate issue or is that the behavior that the camera sensor exhibits when it cannot keep up with the shooting speed? Will the camera not keep it's point of focus if you were to say take your finger off of the BBF button that has been configured? Would that be a possible work around in your example? The problem arises when the camera is constantly trying to focus due to being in Servo mode correct? Just thinking out loud so please indulge me if you don't mind. Again thank you for this great video information!
I think camera companies should tell you about things they know you need to know. There can be so many overall that it is almost unreasonable to expect them to go into great detail. You can expect some limitations with the less expensive gear. They could state that said camera is not the best choice for low light situations where you need high frame rates, as an example, and leave it at that. I think that is reasonable disclosure. It is a plus that Canon got back to you on this issue; a plus with trusting Canon. Thanks, Duade.
Thanks Jim, yes, I guess we as customers need to take some accountability in research etc and it is difficult to list everything. I guess we are lucky to have RUclips these days. Cheers, Duade
Thank you Duade for investigating this in a very kindly and diplomatic way. It confirms my conclusions.
In the days after the purchase of the R7 I discovered to my great surprise the many limitations of this camera. It is a poor flagship of Canon’s APS-C R system. The R7 is not a worthy successor of the 7D mk II. I had readily paid more to have a more refined camera. So I concluded that Canon isn’t serious about APS-C.
For me portability is very important as I do fauna and flora photo inventories on day long walks in all kinds of terrain (hilly, sandy, swampy,...) often under a burning sun. Or on bicycle tours.
Canon will never release long telephoto zooms for APS-C. And to make matters worse decided not to allow third party lenses. Canon is nudging bird photographers towards full frame cameras (R5, R6) and big heavy lenses, while the 1,6x crop factor is lost with them. For my bird photography I consider 800mm to be the absolute minimum reach on a telephoto zoom; 1200mm is even better. And still cropping in post is mostly applied.
So I had to look elsewhere for more compact and lighter weight gear. That’s why, three weeks ago, I bought an OM-5 and Olympus 100-400mm which I am testing now. So far I am very pleased with the performance of the AF for birds in flight and with the sensor noise of this little camera. The shutter is pleasantly silent. I can add an OM-1 or Panasonic G9 II later if necessary.
I have Canon cameras and lenses since 2008 (amongst others : 6D, 7D mk II, 80D, EF 100-400mm L I and II, extender 1,4x III). I use the R7 now for macro photography with my EF-S lenses and RF 35mm f1.8 macro (my only one ever RF lens). The R7 is indeed a good enough general camera and in the end I am happy with it. I also use the iPhone 13 Pro, but not for macro and close-up. The synthesized close-up images often look like watercolor paintings and have an horrible bokeh.
My pictures can be found here : observation.org/users/112911/photos
Thanks for this video. I'm upgrading from my 7D mk2 to the R7. All your videos are excellent and very helpful and honest. Keep up the good work and all the best to you.
Dave
Awesome, thank you!
Thank you Duade. People should read this before they buy the R7 or any Canon product for that matter.
Hi Duade! I think the H+ can be easily used in situations with good light and contrast when the camera focuses on larger objects, e.g human eye or face. I may be wrong but I do not expect such issues that you're talking about when shooting sport. It's just bird photography is quite a demanding task. Perhaps the most demanding one.This is probably why bird photographers prefer having the most advanced cameras. :)
I experience this issue with my R5 in sports photography. It definitely isn't as pronounced as bird photography (which I do both) but it is still an issue that is noticeable. Canon needs to fix this asap for everyone.
@@pnwbjj thanks for the insight as a sports shooter. I often shoot indoor (poorly lit sadly) basketball games, would you say I would still see a benefit in AF accuracy/consistency by using say a R6 or R6mkII compared to my current 5DmkIV?
I too shoot indoor sports so familiar with the tough lighting conditions. I do not have any of those cameras you mentioned so it would be hard for me to comment on. My only thought on it would be that you would probably have better noise results from the R6mkII than the other 2 cameras.@@gardiolan
Thanks for sharing this very valuable information, Duade! There are a lot of reasons that cause soft pictures. Knowing the imitations of the camera is very very important so that we don't waste time trying to change the wrong things and cause even more problems.
Excellent work Duade. I reported exactly this issue to Canon UK in June and they said they were not aware of the issue. I provided files and a link to your video. They had me do all sorts of things and then recommended I return my EF100-400-II for checking. The issue looked like either the R7 did not have the hardware/software for AF in servo and high speed burst, or some cameras had a fault. I did not return the lens because I didn't think this was the issue, and the most recent request after an extensive email exchange was to return the R7 for checking. I doubt now this will reveal any issue but will check with them. I suspect the camera can't keep up for the reasons given by Canon, and the reduced speed of the EF mount won't help. I am very surprised that this was not discovered during field testing. Having watched a webinar given by one of Canon's ambassadors, I was interested that the ambassador used the R5 and when asked about the R7 didn't say much. It makes me wonder! I find the rolling shutter at 30fps in electronic mode significant, though at that frame rate there are usually some good frames. The R7 is very good value (especially with the RF100-400) and I have taken some images that I am delighted with and would not have got with the 7D2. Plus I have recently been experimenting with the RAW burst for close-up and it is great. But Canon really should have been straight about the limitations and it does not reflect well on them. But better late than never, and I suspect your video highlighting the issue played a significant role in this. None of the other reviewers I watch on RUclips have highlighted the problem, which I find really surprising. Anyway, kudos to you. Hopefully Canon will release a professional APS-C model soon that allows the focus to work as advertised and banish the rolling shutter. The Fuji looks pretty good and does not cost that much more. The OM-1 is similar. But neither have the equivalent of the RF100-400 and I find APSC works really well for wildlife.
I think they should have divulged these limitations since its clear from their response they already have benchmarks to show the R7 autofocus speed is slower than the higher models or at least they could have made it a selling point for the higher models. I for one would have just saved up for a R6 mark ii instead or would have gone to a different brand. There's nothing more frustrating than getting a new camera and couldn't get it to work consistently at its 'promised' performance only to find out it was never intended for those conditions at all. Those misleading specs are reserved for cheap, knock-off, startup brands. Not from a premier, popular brand like Canon. Thank you very much for taking the time to make this video. This, just like many of your videos has always been very helpful to me. Great work! 😊
I own a R10. I faced this issue when I captured pictures of my boy when he was jumping. With 15fps mechanical shutter was not focusing on my boy's eye (Sigma 17-50mm EF ). Then I slowed the frame and it was completely fine.
I also noticed that problem in low light low contrast shots... but no issues on well lighted sibjects...
Thanks duade for another great video. I too had the same problems. Thought it was me but never had the same issues with the R6 so I guessed I had a faulty camera. Sent it back to canon for testing and got the response that there was nothing wrong with the camera. Ended up selling it along with my R6 and bought the R5. Glad I did, I do miss the extra reach but the R5 is so much better.
Great explanation. It’s clear Canon falsely advertised the capability of the camera. How many bought the camera based on the frame rate? Now for canon to say it can not do 30 frames. Yes Canon should have limited the frame rate to 15 to improve the image quality and customer satisfaction.
Cheers Duade, intriguing video. I suppose specs aren't everything - the performance ends up sounding about similar to the Panasonic G9 that I use, in terms of focus shifting and usable drive speeds. Talk of Canon autofocus was causing me to think the grass might be greener, but it seems in practice it has its limitations just as Panasonic does.
Only at 30 fps some of the pictures may be out of focus.
Come on! G9/R7 is night and day for birding. Period.
I totally agree on that part about Manufacturers educating better about the limitations or just limit the cameras to whatever settings really work.
Eventually reached the end and happy I did. It's almost exactly what I noticed with the A7iv for runners.
Hit rate higher at lower FPS. Hit rate almost correct in bright summer sunlight dropping sharply when it gets cloudy. Inability to focus on low contrast (give it a white face with blond eyebrows and blue eyes, it's lost). I got the best results using spot tracking as opposed to wide area. Still very frustrating though.
Thanks, yes, appears to be a limitation with many mirrorless bodies in low contrast situations. Cheers, Duade
Thank you, a very informative and needed video. For the last 3 weeks I have been struggling to learn my R7 and my issues have been just as you found them, as well as the great images taken when everything works. My other camera is an R5 and the differences between it and the R7 in regard to how they focus are sometimes hard to grasp (for me). Knowing limitations is a a key thing in photography and, often, are not spelled out for the beginner which leads to a longer learning curve. For the understanding the R7's inner workings, I recommend Canon expert Nina Bailey who writes for the EOS magazine in the UK. I bought her electronic R7 guide for about $20 US and it explains, in great detail how the camera works. Now, she is not wildlife focused so some of her approach is not relevant to wildlife/bird shooters, but she does explain some very tricky concepts. As for me, in the future I will use the R7 in selected situations and will wait for the EOS R5 II to come out to upgrade. Having the "magnification" advantage of cropped sensor is a game changer if the light and subjects are within the R7's capabilities. Wading birds yes, fast moving warblers in the understory, no way. Thanks again, enjoying it all!
Thanks Edward, bang on, right tool for the job, waders, ducks or any situation with light and you need reach the R7 is the perfect tool. Low light, best grab the R5. Thanks for the suggestion re Nina, sounds like she knows her stuff. Cheers, Duade
Have some similar problems with my Nikon z6ii. But, as you say, nothing wrong with the camera, the read out speed probably the main reason to this.
Thank you so much Duade for your persistence with Canon and thorough testing/research. I’ve just brought an R7 so I will be trying out your suggestions. Thanks once again 👍
Happy to help!
Legend Duade!!!...thanks for all you do for us amateurs/pros out there 💯💯💯💯
Hello Duade:
Thank you very much for your work.
For more than a year I have been going crazy with my Canon R5, as I had a problem similar to the one you explain happening with the R7, and sometimes even worse as sometimes shooting static birds, I couldn't even find any point of the image in focus.
I was using the canon 100-400 is II and Sigma 500 f4 lenses with the corresponding adapter and always with the 1.4 is III extender.
One day, in a session with large birds, I removed the extender as it was clipping the wings of all the birds. Upon returning home and reviewing the images, I realized that since I had removed the extender, most of the images were perfect, while with the extender there was a very, very large percentage of out-of-focus photos.
Subsequently I have repeated many times the tests with the 2 lenses and with 2 different extenders and the same thing kept happening.
Also, a friend of mine, with Canon R5 + Canon 500 f4 + Extender 1.4 also had the same issue.
Canon has some problem with their mirrorless cameras that they don't tell us about, despite their "sincerity".
Since I don't use the extenders I am happy.
I hope this comment may help someone with the same problem.
Super video, very informative. Very interesting to me as I am about to switch from DSLR to mirrorless and the R7 suits my budget as I have Canon lenses. One thing that springs to mind Duade is why shoot at 30 fps? or even 15. Even Canon's flagship DSLR 1DX Mk iii can only manage 16 fps. It seems unnecessary to me to go so fast, it just fills your card up rapidly and then you spend ages poring over so many shots deciding which is best. I doubt I would ever use such high frame rates.
It's a factor of multiple things: low-light using small F-stop lenses (e.g. f7.1) or EF to RF adapter, teleconverters, only Contrast Detector AF (higher up bodies use Phase Detect + Contrast Detect).
I've played through lots of cameras, that can affect them all. I wish there were brighter telephoto RF mount lenses for wildlife. RF is still in it infancy.
When using H mode with EFCS there is a setting available in camera menu called "High speed display", turning it on reduces blackouts
Thanks for that, I wonder why it is not on by default, that will help. Cheers, Duade
Really interesting and helpful, as I prepare to purchase the R7. Thanks, Duade.
From my experience with the A7iv, I noticed that I got more sharp pictures of moving subjects at lower frame rate (6 FPS) even though it doesn't reach an acceptable level. I wish Sony had admitted the limitations instead of misleadingly selling "speed and reliability" on their French website.
Hi Duade. I guess Camera Makers Tier their models to allow superior capabilities for the more expensive models. I’m an old gezzer and I’m perfectly happy with the performance of my old Toyota Corolla. Alas I wouldn’t feel the same with the Canon R7. Fabulous video that finally shakes out the realities of the R7. It’s definitely off my list and I appreciate you clueing us in from the horse’s own mouth. I also appreciate Phil and Heather Tach’s fantastic results they get from using it. But I’m not a pro and want the bestest results with the least effort. Thanks. 👍👏🏻🌈.
Good to know the resolution on this. I'm still very undecided about getting this body (lucky for me I still have the R6 as back-up camera, but I do want more pixels...) and so is my partner.
As far as I recall, the push from Canon at release was that the AF was the same as in the R3, but maybe that wasn't Canon saying it outright. Maybe it was just excited pundits making that leap, when reading the specs. It seems it doesn't matter if the AF is the same when the processing isn't, so I'm not sure why on earth they made that high framerate a feature when the AF can't cope under less than perfect conditions. I mean, good light and contrast isn't always around when outdoors (to put it mildly).
So, my gripe with this camera remains the same: I had preferred a more direct conversion from Canon EOS 7D ll to mirrorless, a little more expensive but better at living up to the theoretical specs. Also: no need to mirror (heh) the loud shutter noise on the 7D, though! One can live without that (and the considerate shutter-shock, if I'd understood it correctly).
Thanks Pia, agree completely, I think I am a little critical as I wanted a true 7D successor which the R7 isn't, it is more a 90D blend. This is great for most people but if you shoot in low light etc it has its downsides. Fingers crossed the R7II solves these small issues. Cheers, Duade
My advice? Wait for the R7mkII, with a deeper buffer, a proper pre-AF buffer and better AF. That said, the response does now make me appreciate the stacked sensor in my camera which has such a fast readout speed it can go up to 40fps. There again, who needs 40fps in a consumer body? I rarely go above 20fps just because I remain suspicious that any camera other than the 'rail-gun' equivalent top bodies can really cope with faster speeds.
The R7II will be an imperfect camera also, like all cameras. As might as well wait for the R7III! (Unless it is imperfect!)
Thank you so much! I’ve been struggling with this issue and now I can address it! Appreciate your help!
I've always had this problem with Canon bodies. I just accept it. I'm still stuck in the Stone Age with my 4fps 5D mkii 😃!! In low contrast scenes, it struggles. Perhaps 5% miss rate. In better light, it is perfect! I can only dream of 30fps 🤯.
Hey Duade! I just recently bought an R7, I shoot with the R&, an EF-RF adapter, and my tamron 150-600mm G2 lens. I was shooting some spotted shags in a nice cliff area as they came in with nest material at 1/2500, ISO-1000, with the bird maybe 10-15m away, yet my shots came out rather soft, even with such good lighting, slow shutter speed, i'm not sure if it has to do with the subject tracking even though i think it was doing a good job but they turned out much softer than I was hoping.
Thanks again Duade for such an in depth analysis of a product. Owning the R7 I was a bit disappointed hearing this but like you point out to compare with the R5 and R3 you would expect this as of costs difference. Then I ask myself how many keepers do you need? When you are culling hundreds of photos in a session to keep a few of the best is it really an issue? Yes if the keeper rate is less you may miss out on the hero shot or the ultimate shot on occasions but im ok with this. Especially for the price we pay in Australia for Canon gear. I still am leaning towards H+ mode as I believe that overall keeper rate will be higher as of more photos taken. Basic probability factor. I will experiment with your suggested settings anyway. As far as bird in flights the R7 does seem to be a big disadvantage in comparison with the slower read out with rolling shutter and then having to shoot with a slower frame rate. You would miss out on more different wing positions at a slower rate.
Thanks Tony, great point, and you maybe right if one was to look at the actual keepers in a burst. I think personally I want to be able to trust the AF not to jump or lose the subject. But in good light I think H+ will still result in plenty of keepers. Cheers, Duade
Thanks for taking care of that. I will try it out the next few days.
Great job again duade,I have been using the r7 for 2 years now and am aware of all its limitations and are happy to work within them,yes I do get many soft shots,I used to have a canon 80d so the r7 is a game changer for me,we are all waiting for a pro apsc but canon does not see profits in that.
Interesting the contrast (no pun intended) between what Duade shows here on the settings for the sensitivity for auto tracking and what Jann Wegener says in his video for the same thing. Nothing wrong with that.
Duade, thanks for sharing this. I responded to your first video saying I rarely have this issue with my R7 and mentioned the only significant difference between what setting you were using and mine was I shoot in H mode not H+. My reasoning was more to do with not wanting to wade through all those images than focus issues. I rarely have the problem of one shot being sharp and next being soft. I do sometimes get the situation where it will show it's locked on the animal's eye but in the viewfinder it is obvious the camera focused on something in the background or foreground. Usually I see this if there are strong. vertical elements in back or front (think blades of grass, cattails, reeds, etc, and the subject is somewhat somewhat one bland color (think brown bird like a sparrow or a tan butterfly). In these scenarios, the camera wants to lock onto the vertical object. I've gotten used to this and either manual focus close or point the camera a different direction focus on an object and then point it back to my bird or other creature. Overall, I'm quite happy with the R7 and find it a lot of value. I came from a D500. Unlike the mythology surrounding the D500, it has its own focusing issues and other quirks that one learns to work around. If Canon ever develops an R7 mkII I'll be on the list to get one assuming it has an updated sensor. I really like the form factor and have shot crop sensors for so long I don't pay any attention to the quirks of the crop format. Thanks again for sharing.
I ignored your comments at first. Just a rabid Kiwi off his leash! But I realized I was having the same issue in this situation: using the 100-500 and 800mm f8, in forest, overcast, early morning with low light. Tks for presenting a solution. When the R7 came out the smaller size, lack of the R6 feel, lack of the R6 control wheels had me wishing for a higher priced higher featured model. I think the R7 does exactly what the market needed (APS-C, great price, two card slots, full sized battery, very high res sensor) but not enough camera for me. I was and still am hoping for a pro-grade crop sensor R7 Mark II. In the mean time will enjoy the fellow birds who envy my great shots.
Thanks for such a clear and informative explanation of the R7's AF limitations Duade!!
We all learn by experience that every camera/lens has its limitations, but I agree that manufacturers should be more transparent in highlighting these, rather than end users/purchasers sending their equipment back for analysis when the user experiences issues.
Any chance you could send your Robin my way? It's such a pretty little bird!
Keep up the great work with your channel, much appreciated!!
Glad it was helpful!
Great Video. Love my R7 but have also had these issues with the AF. Overall I still feel very happy with the purchase. Knowing this limitations is helpful. I see 15 fps as plenty in most situations. Thanks for posting this!
Thanks for this information. My Canon R7 is arriving today and I'll be heading out to start learning it tomorrow. This should really keep me from getting frustrated.
Great video Duade! I definitely learned something! Cheers and keep the vids on the R7 coming :)!
Great video. This is super helpful and thought provoking. Just yesterday I was struggling to get sharp shots of a mostly dark hummingbird, while I had more success with the other species, which had more contrast. Now I know why!
I had similar issues when using my Sony A7 IV, even though it has the same CPU as the Sony A1. As a programmer, I guess it's an asynchronous nature of the computations, and it doesn't align the computations. CPU performance might be an issue, but it's not 100% that it's the root cause. Their advice might not apply because you still have the same distance between computations.
My understanding of Canon's suggestion:
- You'll take fewer shots with a wrong focus, at the cost of not shooting photos with potentially wrong focus.
This stuff can be a part of the specification, but I am sure there will be a project manager or head of delivery who will say it will expose the company's secrets.
I am 75% sure that camera's algorithm operate on a proxy "image" combined with sensor data, and the proxy "image" might be out of sync with the real image.
Yeah .Then add multi threading + parallel computation into it. you got pure headache full of madness 😂.
In any AF algorithm , the cpu takes previous image data sample for predicting next af actuation. The more sample the better . To get more data sample you need faster sensor readout.
For example
5, 4, 3, 2, ....
What do you think the next number is? Its 1
But how about the next number of
1, 3, ..
It could be 5 (constant 2 addition)
Or 7 (multiplication of 2 addition )
Or else.
Thats the problem with a7iv
In R7 on top of that , you also need to consider that this camera sensor has aps-c fsi sensor.
Which means it had more junk data(noise) included in sample data to compute.
Let say you suppose to predict
What's the follow up number of
2,3,5,...
Instead you got to
Predict the follow up number of
2, 4, 5,.... Lol
(4 is junk data or noise)
😂
@@adhi_atma lol. So clever guy.