The comment about only giving elements an access of healing if they are designed around it opens the conversation of what are the color identities in elestrals and how are they designed towards that. It doesn't necessarily seem like different elements excel at different things so much as certain elements excel at many themes/mechanics.
Stores are allowed to buy shattered stars but it is at msrp price like as if they are a typical consumer. So it just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for them to buy the sealed packs and resell them
One thing is, with the banlist being this quick, maybe if they see that these big bosses are as big a problem you guys make them out to be they are very capable to out eq or laurels back to a higher count easier
I don't like earthquake personally. Against a two or three cost elestral you are at worse going neutral in spirit and card advantage but you gain so much tempo. The unconditional natural of it pushes it into unfair territory.
Hard removal like EQ is inherently toxic if you want your game to have Boss Monsters. Stuff like Gorgon's is still icky since it's perminent, but Poison Tipped Arrow and Between R&H are more fair since it takes resources to remove it.
It sets you up in card advantage, the 2 or 3 cost guy takes a minimum 2 card investment between the elestral itself and the elestral you had to ascend over, EQ only takes 1 card
Yall got Stockholm Syndrome pretty bad if you think an FTK existing at all (consistent or not) is an ok thing to keep around. Just cause a deck/combo might have an answer doesnt make it ok, because even if it's a staple, you're still forcing players to commit deck space to a silver bullet. The hits to EQ and Lavalith also make complete sense, looking at it as a game designer. Its not that they want a specific deck archetype to be the only option, its more like the archetype they hit happened to be piggybacking off of some flagrant issues with earlier design. Frankly, I'd have fully banned EQ because it invalidates any Elestral thats bigger than a 1 drop. Removal that costs more resources like Shield or PTA, or temporary removal like Gorgon's, is far better because it still offers the Boss player a tempo hit towards their opponent. Lavalith...is a bit trickier since its got extra costs associated with using it. Limiting it for now makes sense to let Stadium/Divine players actually play the game. Honestly, the banlist looks really good. Removed some stifling design mistakes, gave other deck archetypes room to breath, and opened less power-creep designs for the future.
Yeah, it feels like they're too used to Konami's devil-may-care attitude towards the health of the format and unfamiliar with design philosophy. If the problem truly was "deck too strong", then I'd understand wanting to wait and see how the metagame adapts. But the problem is actually "over-abundance of cheap removal is choking out entire mechanics like Divines, Nexus, and Ascension". And I do consider 2 Earth for an immediate no-strings-attached kill button cheap. As for the FTK, it was consistent enough in a game with mulligans that people did play it in the short time between the tournament it debuted in and the banlist. And if you went first and opened full combo, there was nothing your opponent could do. An FTK like that cannot continue to exist. And printing new cards to counter it, Fives, or Heal Stall is just powercreep.
I think that the banlist had all the limits on it because they where already banning the ftk, and they had some ideas for limits, so the designers just decided to hit the other cards because of that. You know Instead of waiting for a good time to post the list
I think the app would have gone crazy and help push elstrals to more people. But with Pokémon’s new app coming out in October I think it won’t bring in more people. Just really bad timing
If 5s is so metawarping that playing anything that costs 2 is a big ask due to ease of access to 1 for 1 removal... Why not just do something to the Elestrals that make up 5s. Limit Mosstacean or something, I dunno. Leave removal more accessible without pushing people away from Divine runes and Stadiums. Hit the things that make the metagame stale. How long will Red Deck Wins be the best deck in the game?
It’s the removal that is pushing people away from Divines and Stadiums. Fives plays so low to the ground that it isn’t really vulnerable to cards like Resting or Lavalith. But it can take full advantage of them against other decks. The problem with limiting the Elestrals in Fives is that many of them are important pieces in other decks, or are generic options that other decks don’t want to lose. Not to mention the fact that limiting them can make the sacky.
At some point they'll have to do something about fives otherwise the game will end up feeling stale. I'm happy that I can look forward to playing in this metagame. I like nexusing, I wanna do that more not less.
Y’all should be on the council of bans. Great opinions.
banger ending
The comment about only giving elements an access of healing if they are designed around it opens the conversation of what are the color identities in elestrals and how are they designed towards that. It doesn't necessarily seem like different elements excel at different things so much as certain elements excel at many themes/mechanics.
Stores are allowed to buy shattered stars but it is at msrp price like as if they are a typical consumer. So it just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for them to buy the sealed packs and resell them
One thing is, with the banlist being this quick, maybe if they see that these big bosses are as big a problem you guys make them out to be they are very capable to out eq or laurels back to a higher count easier
I don't like earthquake personally. Against a two or three cost elestral you are at worse going neutral in spirit and card advantage but you gain so much tempo. The unconditional natural of it pushes it into unfair territory.
Hard removal like EQ is inherently toxic if you want your game to have Boss Monsters. Stuff like Gorgon's is still icky since it's perminent, but Poison Tipped Arrow and Between R&H are more fair since it takes resources to remove it.
It sets you up in card advantage, the 2 or 3 cost guy takes a minimum 2 card investment between the elestral itself and the elestral you had to ascend over, EQ only takes 1 card
Yall got Stockholm Syndrome pretty bad if you think an FTK existing at all (consistent or not) is an ok thing to keep around. Just cause a deck/combo might have an answer doesnt make it ok, because even if it's a staple, you're still forcing players to commit deck space to a silver bullet.
The hits to EQ and Lavalith also make complete sense, looking at it as a game designer.
Its not that they want a specific deck archetype to be the only option, its more like the archetype they hit happened to be piggybacking off of some flagrant issues with earlier design.
Frankly, I'd have fully banned EQ because it invalidates any Elestral thats bigger than a 1 drop. Removal that costs more resources like Shield or PTA, or temporary removal like Gorgon's, is far better because it still offers the Boss player a tempo hit towards their opponent.
Lavalith...is a bit trickier since its got extra costs associated with using it. Limiting it for now makes sense to let Stadium/Divine players actually play the game.
Honestly, the banlist looks really good. Removed some stifling design mistakes, gave other deck archetypes room to breath, and opened less power-creep designs for the future.
Yeah, it feels like they're too used to Konami's devil-may-care attitude towards the health of the format and unfamiliar with design philosophy. If the problem truly was "deck too strong", then I'd understand wanting to wait and see how the metagame adapts. But the problem is actually "over-abundance of cheap removal is choking out entire mechanics like Divines, Nexus, and Ascension". And I do consider 2 Earth for an immediate no-strings-attached kill button cheap.
As for the FTK, it was consistent enough in a game with mulligans that people did play it in the short time between the tournament it debuted in and the banlist. And if you went first and opened full combo, there was nothing your opponent could do. An FTK like that cannot continue to exist. And printing new cards to counter it, Fives, or Heal Stall is just powercreep.
"But muh metagame is evolving" they cry as the game allows you to perform a 20-minute FTK on turn one. 😂
@lost_pantheon
It's Stockholm Syndrome from decades of MTG Pokémon and Yugioh. Ideally A-Drive keeps it up and they can be deprogramned.
Good video 👍
Counterpoint to the crying about the banlist killing a deck right away: FTK decks suck and should generally never be allowed in a format
I agree, but the counterpoint is that stall should have been allowed to stay around for a bit
@@piscenicprodigy8816 oh for sure I agree, I think the wasp should have gotten the bat now and the fruit probably next list
Counterpoint: FTKs are fun and should be allowed as long as they’re bad enough
@@aidanyoung9133 Counterpoint : OTKs can be Fun but FTKs aren't. Not letting your opponent play the game at all isn't fun.
@@MapleLizardCounterpoint: yes it is
I think that the banlist had all the limits on it because they where already banning the ftk, and they had some ideas for limits, so the designers just decided to hit the other cards because of that. You know Instead of waiting for a good time to post the list
I think the app would have gone crazy and help push elstrals to more people. But with Pokémon’s new app coming out in October I think it won’t bring in more people. Just really bad timing
the new mobile pokemon game is more about collecting.So it won't matter.
If 5s is so metawarping that playing anything that costs 2 is a big ask due to ease of access to 1 for 1 removal...
Why not just do something to the Elestrals that make up 5s. Limit Mosstacean or something, I dunno.
Leave removal more accessible without pushing people away from Divine runes and Stadiums. Hit the things that make the metagame stale.
How long will Red Deck Wins be the best deck in the game?
It’s the removal that is pushing people away from Divines and Stadiums. Fives plays so low to the ground that it isn’t really vulnerable to cards like Resting or Lavalith. But it can take full advantage of them against other decks.
The problem with limiting the Elestrals in Fives is that many of them are important pieces in other decks, or are generic options that other decks don’t want to lose. Not to mention the fact that limiting them can make the sacky.
At some point they'll have to do something about fives otherwise the game will end up feeling stale.
I'm happy that I can look forward to playing in this metagame. I like nexusing, I wanna do that more not less.