ESV vs RSV: a Translation Review (with improved audio)
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2019
- This video is not a Bible review. Instead, it compares the ESV to its parent, the RSV, in several passages to get a sense for the extent and types of revisions introduced -- and to test the hypothesis that the ESV is popular among Reformed believers because of the translators' bias in favor of Calvinism.
I originally posted this video on 15 April 2018, but, as some viewers have remarked, the sound quality was poor. This version has improved audio, though some electronic noise is audible in places. Also, I recorded it on a snowy day, so you can hear plows at work from time to time.
Mr. Jones, thank you for taking the time to make this video I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the peaceful "ride" through your very informative video. I'm still at the point in my reading, devotions, and walk with our Lord that I gleam many advantages from the several English translations that I frequent.
Thank u for showing me this. I didnt have an esv only rsv. But now I ordered the esv. Thank u so much I saw another video where this guy recommended the kjv,nksv,esv. I appreciate ur honesty and understanding of the bibles
Thanks for the detailed analysis! Much appreciated.
Hi. Just came across your channel a few weeks ago. And watched this video today. Quite surprised - happily so - to discover you quote me extensively. Thanks! I've been toying with the idea of updating my book to accommodate me and revised translations of the last 16 years. From an American perspective, do you think there would be any mileage in that? David Dewey. UK
Yes, definitely. Expanding your chapter "Into a New Millennium" to cover the RNJB, the 2020 NASB, the Legacy Standard Bible, the Evangelical Heritage Version, the CSB, the 2011 NIV, the NABRE, and, if timing permits, the rumored upcoming update of the NRSV would be quite helpful to the typical American Bible reader. Thank you for all the effort that went into the 2004 edition of your book! I've found it to be a valuable resource.
I just order “A User’s Guide to Bible Translations” because of this video. Thanks to you both.
It is easy to find a bias to support one's theology...if one looks hard enough. Like you stated,the ESV IS the RSV updated.
The language hasn't changed but you need an updated corrupted gnostic manuscript bible from the Catholic church.
@@joshportie Seriously, Catholics have sacraments (visible physical signs which convey spiritual grace) thus sanctifying and confirming the goodness of physical creation which God called good from the beginning. Gnostics believe the physical world is nothing but a trap for the spiritual and was created by a seperate evil being called the Demiurge. You can't get much more different than Catholics and Gnostics. Also, ESV fails the Luke 1:28 test by prefering to translate κεχαριτωμένη as refering to general "favor" rather than divine grace, so it's not what a Catholic would consider a good translation anymore than an evangelical would be happy with a translation removing the reference to the virgin birth from Isaiah 7:14.
No, it's an updated version done by fundamentalists. The RSV was done by scholars and by mainline Christianity mainly, though Metzger was a fundamentalist.
Another nice comparison video, and pretty unique as well. I guess you're in the Alexandria area? My uncle has lived there for decades, and it is very beautiful. Have a blessed day!
I don't know how you drove around while making this video, esp with verses covering the windshield ? You can't even see the road! 😲
LOL. When we're all in self-driving cars guided by a central computer at the Federal Ground Vehicle Administration, making videos like this will be much safer (and more fuel efficient -- and leave the roadways less congested)! Right now, I'm working on another translation review, but I don't plan to use any dash cam footage. A viewer suggested KJV vs ESV. Hope I don't make too many new enemies.
I saw the same school bus, in the same stretch of road, twice. (Either that, or Pete Seeger was right all along!)
Thanks brother i really enjoyed your analysis. I am not sure why you have dash cam video running? I am reformed and usually use NASB and now LSB. I dont have any issues with the RSV and just never got into the ESV. I just ordered the personal size sovereign version on Amazon for $40!
This comment is 4 years after you posted your video. I can not find any evidence to support the ESV having a Calvinist bias either. To me, while there are minor word and punctuation changes, the Geneva, KJV, RV, ASV, RSV, NASB, NKJV, and ESV (minus the Apocryphas or course) all read the same. Any move away from literal translations yields significant variance. Thank you for your work and evaluation to compare these two translations.
Do you think the ESV's rendering of 2 Peter 1:20 shows a Protestant bias that we don't see in the RSV? It seems that the ESV translates 1:20 to make the same point as in 1:21, while the RSV translation of 1:20 is informed by the statement in 1:19, "we have the prophetic word made more sure."
i live abroad and a little homesick, actually really enjoyed the car footage reminds me of my michigan :'(
that said as a Catholic gladly take a Calvinist or Lutheran bible from traditional believers such as the Evangelicals over some of the modern stuff. Love your videos
I tend to prefer translations from the middle of the 20th century and earlier. That video was taken a few miles southeast of Michigan, in one of the South Atlantic states. Thanks for the encouraging comment!
Hello sir, would you mind checking one of your rsvce2 translations (preferably the Ignatius Bible edition) and replying with how eph 5:5 is rendered please?
Many thanks
"Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." That's from my copy of the Didache Bible, which uses the 2006 RSV, Ignatius Edition.
@R. Grant Jones thanks very much for that, much appreciated. Was curious as to whether it would just say immoral or sexual immorality. Cheers
Regarding Isaiah 7:14. From my readings I understand that the original text was 'young woman ' in Hebrew. But when the LXX was written, the Hebrew writers themselves changed young woman to 'virgin'. Maybe they understood the meaning of the Hebrew text better and made the change.
Some websites say esv has a Calvinist slant including rev 13:8, I encounter a kjvo website - it has verse-by-verse Calvinist translation
But the RSV reads 'and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.'
Where is this beautiful drive?
If I recall correctly, it's in Alexandria, Virginia in the United States -- starting on Janney's Lane, just after the intersection with N. Quaker Lane, then on King Street to near the intersection with Russell Road. Thanks for the question!
Dearest Rich, I am writing to ask for a review of the complete hebrew greek bible for my fellow viewers.
Firstly, the quality is very good like the Septuaginta: a reader's edition.
Secondly, it has a good price tag on its head.(ja, i have weird phrasing) Usually for 26 States of United Amerika dollars you will only get the greek new testament.
I hope you consider my request. I will not mention its flaws as you will have less content.
Sincerely, Rudolph Joachim Hansen.
Thanks for the suggestion, Rudolph. If I were bright enough to have learned some Hebrew, I'd be more enthusiastic. As it is, I'm not highly motivated to spend $26 on a Bible only to leave three quarters of it unread!
Thank you. Well done.
Thank you for the encouraging comment!
Is the video just interesting background visuals for the discussion, or is there a deeper connection? Like traveling down the road through history toward the truth?
Thanks for the question, Daric! No deep meaning was intended. Just thought I'd try something different.
@@RGrantJones
Sounds good, it was a nice change of pace.
I bought the RSV-2CE Hardback after seeing your video on the RSV-2CE. Do you plan to do a video like this, commenting more on the translation of the RSV-2CE?
No, sorry, I don't have any such plans.
@@RGrantJones One final thing, if I may. Do you know where one can purchase a very high quality RSV and RSV-2CE respectively, something similar in quality to a Cambridge Turquiose or RL Allan KJV Longprimer/NASB Readers?
P.S.
I like the quality on my Nelson Premier editions also. Not as high quality, but still high-enough quality.
@@Real_LiamOBryan - I wish I did, but I don't think I've heard of a premium RSV or RSV-2CE. But if you buy one with a text block you like, and if the binding is sewn, you can have it rebound.
Also just curious. And sorry if you've mentioned it before. What Christian tradition do you align (or most) align with? Or do you prefer to keep this outside of public knowledge? Thanks.
I'm an Anglican.
@@RGrantJones
Ah okay. I have a good friend who is a Reformed Anglican, so I'm guessing by the topic of this video, you are non-Calvinist leaning? Not that I'm judging or anything.
@@daric_ - I'm favorably disposed toward much of historical Calvinism. But the purpose of the video was not to defend or rebut the doctrines of grace. It was simply to address a common view: that since so many Reformed preachers and teachers use the ESV, the translators must have injected a Reformed bias into the text. It seems to me that what they've done is tighten the RSV in some points for accuracy and loosen it in the interests of readability in some others. They also appear to have diluted the vocabulary for the same reason.
@@RGrantJones
Okay, makes sense. I didn't get the sense you were against Calvinism at all. It just seemed that you spoke of them as separate from your theological tradition.
I've never felt like the ESV was more Calvinist leaning than other translations I've used in the past, so I find this accusation curious. Thank you for presenting the data to demonstrate this.
The ESV Study Bible could be a different story, though, when considering the study notes.
Would you say the RSV is more accurate in the Old Testament since the translators were more willing to depart from the Masoretic Text?
Thanks for the question, Steve. I suspect so, but I don't have any expertise in Old Testament textual criticism.
Between RSV 1971 and ESV 2016 which do you prefer?
I prefer Gods word rather than the corrupt modern ones based on manuscripts that contain shepherd of Hermes and epistle of barnabas both gnostic.
@@joshportie oh I see, so the Douay Rheims bible?
ESV but I am English and CofE
Where is this car ride taking place?
Somewhere in the U.S., in the Eastern Time Zone. :)
On the road
Is the RSV you are talking about here the same as the RSVCE/2 please?
Not exactly, but the two are close. I'm referring to the 1971 RSV. But you can check the quotations that appear in that edition against the RSV2CE, and you'll see they're very close, if not identical.
@@RGrantJones ah interesting, thanks. I'm about to start my yearly reading in the NKJV, but I will have to give the RSV a go in the future too. Thanks for the content over the year, God bless
@@bertrodgers2420 - you're welcome, Bert! May God bless you and yours as well.
If you take a copy of Calvin's _Institutes_ , turn it upside-down, and hold it in front of a mirror, you'll see that the entire book is actually a diatribe against semicolons.
That's hilarious, Dee Emm! I could see a character in a Dan Brown novel trying that.
@@RGrantJones lol, that sounds about right.
the sound of this is a lot more pleasant to listen to... the "treble" is not so much "pricking" to the ears... :) ... thanks...
Thanks, helge. I know it's far from perfect, but at least it's an improvement. Thanks also for your constructive criticism on the earlier release. Much appreciated.
thanks... i always appreciate your video reviews, which are always very carefully executed....
So, the RSV has liberal bias. The ESV has Calvinistic bias. What translation do YOU find to be the most accurate and unbiased? I'd always assumed the RSV to be the answer to that question.
I actually find the ESV to be the most theologically conservative out of many modern translations, by which I mean traditionally orthodox/apostolic (I am an Orthodox Christian). This strikes me especially with regard to interpreting the Old Testament in the light of Christ. It's the main reason I favor the ESV over translations like the NRSV and the NABRE, whose translation choices & footnotes I found scandalously unorthodox. The NABRE footnotes, in particular, read like academic notes written by non-Christians.
I also would like to point out that the _image_ of God and the _likeness_ of God are considered two distinct things in Orthodox theology, and Greek _icon_ refers specifically to His image, and not His likeness (likeness is _omoiosis)._ So the RSV passage displayed at 24:06 would be considered a completely erroneous translation by Orthodox, whereas the ESV is correct.
I disagree. Luke 1:28 is a dead giveaway that the ESV is not a great translation.
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Revelation 13:8 ESV
Here the esv reads "before the foundation of the world"
All other translations read "from the foundation..." or "creation" as seen in the NIV.
Those who understand calvinism will see why this seems deliberate.
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8 NKJV
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Revelation 13:8 NASB
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, all whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8 MEV
All those who live on the earth will worship it, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
Revelation 13:8 CSB
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8 KJV
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast-all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
Revelation 13:8 NIV
Thank you! Interesting. Rev 13.8 reads this way in the Revised Standard Version: "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain."
1 Peter 1:3 seems to be changed to a Calvinist slant.
Thanks for commenting! Yes, I agree with you. Looking at the Greek, I think the ESV is also more literal here. The participle αναγεννησας is nominative singular masculine. The 1881 RV has, "who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
@@RGrantJones so you think the ESV is correct by saying God caused us?
I'm also using the RSV-2CE.
Thank you
@@justinharnett - Yes. God is the one doing the begetting. So it could be expressed "he has caused us to be born again", as the ESV does. The NABRE presents the same idea: "who in his great mercy gave us a new birth."
@@RGrantJones I just found 4 more possible Calvinist verses that use propitiation whereas the RSV-2CE uses expiation and other translations use neither.
But looking up the difference between expiation and propitiation it seems that propitiation points to the wrath of God being satisfied (in the "reformed" sort of way) whereas the expiation points to Christ's love for us and taking our place to atone for our sins.
@@justinharnett - Thanks for the comment! The RSV did replace "propitiation", which appeared in earlier English translations, with "expiation". For me to make a case that the ESV's return to the earlier wording makes it Calvinistic, I'd have to demonstrate that those earlier translations are Calvinistic. That's a tall order given the fact that the Douay-Rheims Bible uses propitiation in Romans 3.2, Hebrews 2.17, 1 John 2.2, and 1 John 4.10.
Esv Vs KJV
Yes, that would be an interesting video.
With you on ESV being a biased translation. Theirs verses where they translate a word or two completely different than EVERY other translation out there, and it’s jarring.
The "NIV envy" changes probably contributed to why the ESV is regarded as targeting a more accessible reading grade level than the RSV. I think making an easier to read text is a good thing.
A good practical reason to prefer the ESV over the RSV is the popularity of the ESV means you will find many more options for bibles that suit your particular preferences. The ESV is ninety something percent the same as the RSV, but reverts some questionable changes and is slightly easier to read.
Dear God I’m so sick of all this . Please can we just have a reasonable, mainline translation that everyone is happy with?
And by which you are ⚠️BEING SAVED⚠️, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you-unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:2, English Standard Version)
The ESV tells its reader that salvation is a process they have to work for. STRAIGHT OUT OF HELL!!!
Video of driving VERY distracting