I HATE Power Scaling, kinda
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Power scaling... is aight. Whether it be Jujutsu Kaisen or Dragon Ball, power scaling is incredibly popular and for good reason. It's fun, nerdy, and kinda fulfilling, but... I don't like it that much. I'm not a rabid hater like Bigs n Stuff, but sometimes it does get a little much.
Could bloodlusted prime Yuta with Rika and life vow beat exhausted teen Goj-- shut up.
#jujusukaisenseason2 #jjk #dragonball #powerscaling
contact.orion.no@gmail.com = Email me!
Hello my friend, great video!
I think Goku cant hit Giorno and Giorno cant hit Goku so i think its a tie!
Dear Donartkrs5422,
Respectfully, imgur.com/a/0eoWY14.
Kind regards,
Orion
@@Orion__no is that the character nen from dragon balls?
dont diss Stan lee bro 😭@@Orion__no
Goku flexing a muscle@@Orion__no
Girono attacks transcend reality not sure why you think it wont effect Goku.
Goku has canonically died. Garfield hasn't even bled
Garfield>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Goku
Didn't garfield "died" in that one depressive comic?
"Ah shit. Here we go agane".
Garfield has been shown to eat too much lasagna and get a tummy ache, Tom and Jerry have never got a tummy ache
@@Gamfluent Tom did, well something like that when he ate a hotdog
powerscalers explaining how mario can withstand the gravitational force of a black hole while he dies to a thwomp:
Thwomp = universal obviously
@@Orion__no thwomp vs Goku would be crazy
That's just game play/game mechanics
Now your just being disingenuous
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt no they are not. The thwomp is obviously more powerful than a black hole. And so the floor is beyond black hole level
my biggest problem with power scaling is always "this character dodged a laser attack, therefore everyone in this verse that's comparable to him clearly has lightspeed reaction time"
it drives me insane 'cause it's always so obvious no author thinks like that and just thought it'd be cool. No death Battle. Batman and Link are not reacting at lightspeed. that's dumb.
How do you know the arthur didn’t mean for stuff like that to be interpreted in that way? Did the author tell you or the fandom this information or are you just making assumptions based on nothing?
@@animemaster4412 yes. every author of every series i've ever watched has written to me independently to confirm i'm right. it's rather exhausting to go through them all but it's nice having their autographs
@@TheCreepyLantern 😂
That's the point regardless if the author agrees or disagrees
Batman is actually inaccessible due to him trading hands with Superman who Superman could move in a place where time was non existent
Thank you, I swear power scalers just spew nonsense. Its as if they believe authors think or understand about the real implications of said actions. Like authors dont start thinking about the lasers supposedly lsers lightspeed when doing those scenes, they probably just though about how cool it would look their character doging
My biggest complaint with power scaling is so many scalers ignore narrative. Like, they may understand the story but they'll see a character lose a fight and now it's an "anti feat" even if the narrative has been telling us they'll lose for a while.
I agree with this on so many levels. I think the problem is that a good amount of powerscalers don't start from 0, instead they choose who they want to win and then work backwards to figure out how they win.
@@ungabunga9581 It's not even just a JJK thing but you're right. But even outside of JJK, the amount of people who don't understand the Yamamoto vs Yhwach fight or Superman vs Batman fights from a narrative perspective is just mind boggling.
Indeed, there are so many factors that make a fight more realistic and enrich the narrative: underhanded techniques, prior planning, mental aspects, interference from others... I love that JJK is full of (well thought ambushes. What I don't get is people that are into powerscaling getting angry at weaker characters winning or trying to deduct "merit points" somehow. Exactly the "my dad is stronger than your dad" that the video mentions.
@@nekoiza4190especially JJK for that fact Sukuna had every advantage against gojo and still lost some being having multiple sources of info on gojo coming from when
Gojo was teaching Itadori about domain expansion
,Kenjaku probably gave sukuna info about gojo during that one month timeskip,
Him having Megumi body so he gains all of Megumi memories which some of that had to be knowledge on gojo technique(Gojo did basically raise Megumi)
Man, there are characters that transcend the narrative like SCP-3812, which in this case is useless, discussions between whether he or I don't know if Goku wins and it's obvious that SCP-3812 will win because he is superior and transcends the narrative
Stan Lee's comment on this is correct because the narrative is what decides if a story is actually interesting or not, and he's not even addressing crossover 'verse' arguments because each story with its world has its own unique rules and systems that it doesn't even make sense to compare their characters
Part of the interest of power scaling in the first place is the "WHAT IF" about it. Like I really don't mean to be combative but fucking obviously it doesn't make sense to compare two verses. They're two DIFFERENT things and two worlds with different mechanics and so on. But this is why stuff like equalizing them is made happens. Like you mention interest but it'd be way more uninteresting to go "well we can't actually compare gojo and goku because theyre from two separate pieces of fiction 🤓" it completely shits on all attempts at discussion. People aren't stupid enough to not realize that one verse as cursed energy, another has ki, one has nen, and so on. And, people arent stupid enough to not know "well the one who would win is the one the writers would want to!" Like these r obvious as hell things, the whole point is to both suspended your disbelief and actually think about the "what if" this feels like the people who respond "that'd never happen!" When someone asks them about a hypothetical scenario
Let's make Captain America dog walk Hulk because the writer decides who wins, right?
It's a very stupid logic. Stories should have consistency, or just make it make sense, you can't have Peter Parker who we know can easily lift cars struggle to lift a goddamn fridge off his back and think that's fine.
Stan Lee is not credible when it comes to other fictions
Stan Lee is not credible when it comes to other fictions
so he's not even talking about power scaling to begin with, he's speaking from standpoint of "writing story" rather than analyzing combat abilities, speed, attack potency of characters.
Powerscalers when their child is kind and sweet instead of continent lvl 😡😡😡
And also is not faster than light 👿👿👿👿👿👿
I can confirm powerscalers not beating the pacifist run allegations.
@@Roto3Oh but they will be beating something alright.
What I hate the most is that people take what the author just said bc they thought it was cool and NEVER let it go. Every dragon ball character is apparently faster than light bc the animators didn’t want to have the characters wait 3 business days for roshi to blow up the moon
Dragon ball characters being faster than light is no surprise. However people claiming that Goku can move sextillion times faster than light is bullshit. People claiming that Goku is Multiversal is utter bullshit. The only character in Dragon Ball with Universal feats is the alien God Xeno who can erase Universes and everyone fears him. No other character has Universal feats at all and scaling them higher than Zeno ruins the entire power scaling in the verse sense he is the strongest character.
@@ZackSNetwork Well sorry to tell you this but no zeno isnt the only universal character. Buuhan(super absorbed gohan) was going to destroy the living universe with his voice shout against vegito which is stated directly by vegito, super sayian god goku vs beerus was going to destroy the complete universe 7 which has mutiple universal size realms such as the living universe, heaven which is stated during the buu saga to be comparable in size to the living universe, hell, otherworld which is so large it has heaven and hell inside itself and the kaio-shin realm which is stated in the data book to be 1\10th the size of the whole universe 7 which is a low multitversal feat, during beerus vs champa its stated by whis or vados 2 gods of destructions fighting each other would result in both thier universes would be destroyed by thier fight and the grand priest creates the world of void a infinite 4th dimensional realm of nothingness and in the tournament of power characters such as jiren, god of destruction toppo and goku ui can all affect the world of viid
@@ZackSNetwork Dragon ball characters have been light speed since goku was a kid it's not a suprise for goku to reach those levels of speed considering the fact goku 2 arcs before the tournament of power could move in hits time skip which is shown to skip, stop and store time which would give that goku immeasurable speed(higher than inaccessable speed) and the very next arc(black goku arc) goku is shown moving in an erased universe with no time or space which is inaccessible speed(above infinite speed )
@@fireman4804 what? why is moving in a universe that have no time or space considered "fast"? that isn't really logically sound, in a universe have no time or spacee, I'd assume people can just teleport freely however they want
@@kujojotarostandoceanman2641 The reason moving in an area with no time is impressive is due to the fact the character can move regardless of time being present or not(unless directly stated otherwise). For example someone could travel an infinite distance in 1 second showing time relevant to speed but someone with inaccessible speed can move any distance without time even passing
>Shits on Stan Lee
>Proceeds to say the exact same thing but in more words
I think he's shitting on both sides and saying the best is a middle ground. That means centrism, which means now everyone will team up on him. Let's go boys.
What Stan Lee said is true, but it shouldn't be important. Writers still should write a consistent story and power system. Just because a writer can decide someone could win, doesn't mean they should (like Kurrin winning against Goku in a serious battle). But also on the reverse just because a character could win (ant man flying into Thanos ass) doesn't mean they should.
@@sburbtube6766 When the story is written competently, such questions simply never arrive. The problem with marvel and dc is that most of their "stories" are just compilations of hundreds shitty mini-stories with a couple of good ones somewhere inbetween. So you can have grounded fights that only go as far as the original character meant to go, and batshit insane cosmic-level shenanigans during the same comic run, making it impossible to actually know what the hell is certain character really capable of canonically.
You just have to understand that most of this stuff is a fucking slop, and so Lee's rule only works with the actual "story-runs" written by 1 (2 max) authors.
I think you don't understand politics. Right wing people love centrism as it favours them. @@no3ironman11100
"When the story is written competently, such questions simply never arrive." Yes that can still happen and it's called bad writing.
" Lee's rule only works with the actual "story-runs" written by 1 (2 max) authors."
No it's actually the opposite. When you have only one author the story usually makes sense and the author doesn't need to actively decide who will win, because the story and characters would naturally lead to a winner that makes sense.
Only with multiple comic runs with multiple writers Stan Lee's logic of "the writer decides who wins" applies. People can scale how they want, in the end the (new) writer can just decide who wins without it making any sense.
@@thosemerc3113
I think the main problem with power scaling is that for most things it requires you too interpret most things with a great example being Makima herself.
This is such a werid compliant. This is like saying, "My main problem with stories is that you have to understand them." That is like the whole point.
@@idonthaveacreativename6504 that's not really what I'm saying. It's just from a power scaling point of view there are some characters like Makima that are hard to scale because of either they have extremely vague abilities (I mean just look at her bang and the whole debate around that or her domination ability/her contract with the prime minister) or don't have enough screen time to show off her there abilities.
@@idonthaveacreativename6504 nah it get it very rarely will the narrator will say "this ability can destroy a planet" or show something destroying a planet instead you have to assume it can destroy a planet because a character who smack away city level blast with a pinky got 1 tapped with it dispite having there guard up
But wait theres more that attack was a cursed energy beam and the character who can only be killed by planet destroying attacks was weak to cursed energy beams so was it really a planet level attack or just a city level attack that was super effective?
@idonthaveacreativename6504 I think what he means is that abilities such as makimas can be interpreted in a lot of diffrent ways so there isn't a clear answer to a lot of fights that people try to give answers to
And then you got statements made by characters in universe which normally are nonsense but have to be taken as true
(According to superman he loses to or is weaker then :martian manhunter,batman,shazam,wonder woman,plastic man) despite having beaten all of those characters(except plastic man who is just that guy and martain manhunter) at least once
Power scareles need to realize that the writers aren't calculating their feats as they write them lmao. Gege didn't google how fast a bullet travels, then decided if Maki was fast enough to catch it
Gege literally wrote that Mai was using "RUBBER" BULLET in Chapter 41, 😂 so Maki didn't caught a real Gun Bullet.
@@chiaki.hayakawa18 ....doesnt matter for this.
@@chiaki.hayakawa18 so stop being a power scaler if he want her to get shot by a rubber bullet he will cause he wrote the story
that's part of the fun
@@chiaki.hayakawa18the bullet maki caught was one constructed of cursed energy, which was still shot out of a gun. You didn’t discredit the feat
Power scaling is the male version of Shipping characters
This is the best analogy I've heard in a while
Nah shipping doesn't make my brain hurt as much
@@SilverTypo5081shipping makes ur heart hurt, any angst/slow burn ship is gonna be painful for your heart lol. Powerscaling and shipping are both fun, and i wish a media could combine the both somehow…
One big thing that I completely hate about powerscaling is pixel scaling/unconfirmed scaling that massively highballs characters when they haven’t showcased feats of those levels.
An Example being Midoriya, Mha has consistently shown relativistic reaction speeds to hypersonic combat/movement speeds. Yet people do mega-wank “calculations” and pixel scaling to somehow get Deku at hundreds to thousands of times faster than light.
They completely ignore the narrative of the story and simply apply Bs made up multipliers.
Another thing I hate is dimensions tiering across verses when both verses have different dimensional scales; aka 5th dimensional in one verse is not equal to 5th dimensional in another unless both are explained to work similarly.
As far as I'm concerned there's a single FTL feat in BHA and that's Deku using Gearshift on Bakugo
Agree, also I have when people say that some character is universal level, but then you see that their universe is like 100-200 solar systems. I hate when power scalers make Naruto universe chars universal because they have beaten Kagua who "can create a dimension where is the sun". These stupid people don't understand that those "dimensions" can be little planes where sunlight comes from real-world sun.
The problem I have with power scalers is that they even have terms like the ones you mention at all, because it's just nonsensical. There is no logic or rationalization for the phrase "dimensional scales", or "5th dimensional". These are nothing terms with no meaning that they pull out of their ass because they don't want to admit basic truths.
I enjoy power scaling. I hate power scalers. There's a difference. One is a logically consistent thought experiment, the other is a group of the stupidest people to ever live pretending like they know what they're talking about when they lack the fundamental ability to understand the reality they've witnessed. Just as an example... "relativistic speeds", "faster than light", or any such thing. There's not a single feat in Naruto, DBZ, Bleach or MHA that gets all that close to that. Not even one. And yet, by throwing out numbers they don't understand and applying "facts" that have less than nothing to do with those numbers, they just make up random gobbledegook that makes them feel better about these characters for no real reason.
@@ShadowOfLaw There are many many things wrong with what you've said here. Literally nobody ever "beat" Kaguya, the win condition for the humans was a game of tag, all they had to do was touch her once to seal her, that's very different from winning a fight. It's also unclear whether Kaguya creates these dimensions or simple transposes them. The truth seems to be largely the latter but we don't actually have confirmation, and there's no reason for us to believe either of those possibilities are true for all the dimensions she brings us to. There's also that "universal level" term. What does it mean? Like, what does that ACTUALLY try to claim? Have you considered that power scalers only used those terms specifically because they don't actually mean anything and thus can easily be changed to mean what they want instead of actually suggest anything meaningful? That the fact that the term inherently moves the goalposts of the argument is the point in using the term? Which, for the record, is in itself a logical fallacy. For a hobby that's supposedly rooted in logical consistency, power scalers sure do engage in a LOT of those.
I'm glad you mentioned dimension tiering. A lot of Goku fans don't understand how DC Comics' cosmology works.
what's annoying is that people take some ''feats'' too seriously when they were done for a cool factor more than how real life would work like that maki catching a bullet scene
i keep seeing people spamming that some characters are ''light speed'' fast for some dumb reasons like ''they dodged an attack that looked like light''. No...just no. It would take 0.13 seconds to run around earth once with light speed, if you don't see those characters doing that then they're not real life light speed.
true, 99,9% of those light attacks are simply energy that looks like light.
Key word "real life"
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt yeah light speed is a real life term and means absolutely nothing if it's not accurate in a show
''yeah guys that guy is light speed trust me he just isn't actually because he's not as fast as real life light speed'', why even use the term ''light speed'' then?
@@senntai
Because it's an appeal to reality in a fictional work.
Like Wouldn't even moving at the sound make people unable to hear you or something
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt my guy that's not how fiction works
outright lying about what a term means isn't an ''appeal to reality'', + the show itself never even says that the characters are light speed 90% of the time it's just it's delusional fans
i've seen people call luffy from one piece ''light speed'' without the show ever even implying that he is let alone stating it. It's just fans making things up and not understanding what ''light speed'' even is.
The fact that people take the bullet scene and say "Gege doesn't know how strong his own verse is" really tips the hands off the mentality power scalers have.
More than anything, power scalers want their favorite characters to be ludicrously strong, so stretches of logic are totally acceptable as long as there is an argument for it.
For example, Dark Soul characters are currently rated as star level (as in, if they punched a star, it would explode) by its fanbase, and if I remember correctly, that's just because of a metaphor about the flame being compared to a star or something. Take metaphors as fact, ignore all consistency issues this creates, and do whatever else you can to support your position.
And that's why I can't stand the power scaling community. They claim to use logic, but they ignore it whenever it's convenient for them.
they pick and choose certain statement's,feats,and inconsistent feats to fuel their agenda
Absolutely, it's really annoying how they claim they;re making logical conclusions and then proceed to make the most insane leaps in logic you've ever seen just so their favorite can win,
This also explains why they like wanking every verse to being planetary level or MFTL.
Like no Gojo and Sukuna are not Star+ level just because one special grade, in a completely unique circumstance, happened to be able to turn into a small black hole and you somehow concluded that they're only stronger than that person because they can punch black holes to death or some shit and just ignore every other skill and ability they have
While I fully agree, the example you used, Ds3, is incorrect.
The soul of cinder is directly stated to be the power of the sun. This isn’t a metaphor. That’s why when you face the soul of cinder himself the sun itself is hollow. Aka; the sun itself descended into the world.
Soulsborne games heavily rely on their lore for scaling because they don’t show feats. So you arguing them being star level would ruin consistency isn’t really an argument/valid point at all when you consider they are facing conceptual beings that surpass the concept of time itself. Even elden ring confirms only a weapon that surpassed time is capable of slaying a god, and this is once again confirmed via Placidusax scales.
It also doesn’t help your case when it’s outright confirmed godly beings exists beyond the concept of time. The fight with Gael, and soul of cinder both take place after the end of time. That’s also confirmed lore. This directly points to the gods of Ds to be a higher plane of existence altogether and can’t really be quantified by “star level.” Vsbattles wiki is completely unreliable in and of itself, and is known to downscale characters that are actually strong just because they aren’t well known or popular.
An accurate example to your point though would be Radahn from elden ring.
People take his statement of “arresting the stars” way out of context because he didn’t actually arrest real stars/suns.
He only arrested the falling star beasts, which are confirmed in game to be the size of a large building. So in reality he isn’t some hyper-star level being at all. But rather a multi-large building level being with his gravity manipulation. Nothing more.
Or another good example would be the moon presence, where they argue your character is capable of moon busting in bloodborne because he killed the eldritch like god that represents the moon itself, when killing the moon presence isn’t actually equal to destroying the moon (because there is nothing to support this) and even if it was equivalent, the moon in bloodborne is actually within “earth’s” atmosphere so it’s still not busting the actual moon.
@@zorro8027 There's also the solar system argument for Naruto because solely of Kaguya's dimension and OP characters being planetary since MF just cause Whitebeard
Problem is, in Gege's case, Gege... doesn't. It's not just the Maki bullet grab, it's also Hakari dodging lightning and Sukuna dodging actual electromagnetic waves.
I feel like through most power scaling discussions I start from a place of "oh that's kind of cool: and devolve into a place of "why do you care so much?"
The biggest problem i have with powerscaling is when people start overscaling their favorite characters because they like them more, i see some people scale naruto to solar system destruction levels, when it would make 0 sense in the story if he really were that strong, same with one piece, i've seen people calculate luffy to be 1000x the speed of LIGHT, which makes no goddamn sense because if that were true he would've found the one piece already, and the world would be destroyed by him throwing a single punch, people just straight make up their own math to make their character look stronger.
the one piece speed scaling is a huge problem specifically cause of the light light fruit
nuhuh ichigo solos
Yes, Luffy can scale to 1000s at times faster than a speed of light and it does make sense since they're a categories your MFTL, which means massively faster than light if you're a hundred times faster than light and there are a little subcategories for that as well. If you get into the millions of times faster than the speed of light via calculations, then you'll be put into that MFTL plus range. And then there are tears that a lot of characters don't reach, but some characters do which is immeasurable or infinite speed, But Luffy wouldn't find the one piece. If he was faster than light. That would be under the assumption that he already knows where the one piece is since he would still have to scour a lot of places to find it and he still needs his team to navigate and he still can't be in water. So if the one piece is in the sea then he's still going to need his team.
@@marvelmaniacs1 Luffy being 1000 times the speed of light is complete nonsense.Event the light devil fruit aint that fast. If he really were that fast he would completely obliterate everything he touches. THe whole story of one pice would take like a couple of seconds, because if luffy is 1000s the every hard fight he had means that everyone he fought moves at that speed. so the everyone in the verse that is a threat to him would move at 100x the speed of light. The whole character is 1000x speed of light just takes a gag moment or a moment that is supposed to look cool, not be logical and makes a feat out of it, while completely ignoring anything that suggests that they are infact nowhere near that speed, wich is 99% of the other feats they show.
if they're mftl, then their journeys would take an instant to arrive to different locations and not boats needed
My favorite series are OG Dragon Ball and Jujutsu Kaisen and because of this video, I think I know why. Besides the world, characters, story, etc. the battles were always about the clash of techniques and the "type matchups" like you talked about, the characters have to legit think about the battles and find creative solutions to the problems by thinking outside the box, these were always the most entertaining fights for me.
I think JoJo’s also does that stuff, the best type of fights are the ones that revolve around a rock-paper-scissors approach, where the match is completely dependent as to who has a counter ability to who.
Like hxh!
You should watch HxH, demon slayer fits this description too
Jojo also fits the bill perfectly
As a physicist: the logic is never sound. I hate power scaling because of how bad the vast vast majority of it is.
When it comes to power scaling among characters of the same verse I do think it is important as it help maintain an internal consistency.. If character A is stated to be stronger than character B but character B beat character A easily without any explanation and then looses to character C who was shown to be weak then that would just be inconsistent. That is how power scaling originally started. It was originally just a way to maintain internal narrative consistency of the power levels between characters of the same series but at some point it became about comparing characters of different series and although in some cases it is fine in many cases it becomes impossible as it is just a matter of interpretation.
With all that said though I do find power scaling between different versus and the various debates fun to watch so I don't hate it.
My biggest contention is with bringing math and real world logic and expecting consistency. The subreddits lit Gege up when the Sakurajima chapters dropped because of the powerscaling making no sense, when it just wasn’t something Gege cared about at that level. Seriously he’s not drawing his characters to scale to make sure the math of mach 3 checks out when you count the pixels.
I agree with the character B beating A without an explanation bit, though. But I think Gege has been pretty good about that all things considered.
The ABC thing doesn't even work in real life. In combat sports like mma or boxing you'll see it tons of times. A champ will be fighting an opponent, that opponent has already lost to guys he has beaten. Yet still loses somehow even though he's beaten better competition.
@@kaisac.Styles make fights
Honestly that's not how it works in real life, and also, not how it should work in stories. Victory isn't just a matter of individual talents, but is dependent on a wide range of circumstances, for example, how tired a certain person/character is, what the environment they're fighting in is, weapons and preparations, fighting style, number of opponents and many more.
In a story, ignoring all of these will make your fights worse rather than better, and mostly predictable.
@@dDoodle788 You miss my point. Everything you mentioned like " how tired a certain person/character is, what the environment they're fighting in is, weapons and preparations, fighting style, number of opponents" all these are explanations as to why a weaker character can win against a stronger character. I am specifically referring to situations where there is no explanation or the explanation is a poor one and seems like an a#s pull.
My problem with power scalers is that they see everything in numbers and if your number is bigger you win. There is no technique nuance, specialization, character match ups, strategy just hard "Science" and number which its specially hilarious when the characters in question are supposed to be faster than light. Writers are writers not physicist (most of the time).
Thing is numbers actually do matter tho, experience for example isn't gonna help you when your opponent can blow up a continent while you can only blow up a city know what i'm sayin
I agree that beyond faster than light powerscaling is wild, but if a character performs a feat like ion know crossing the universe in one second per say, then someone calculates this to be x times faster than light then ion really see no problem here get me
Well the numbers do matter. On top of that, it's not the only thing you still have to take into account how these characters acts, which is why there's things such as bloodlust being specified and then if these characters would even know how to use one ability to counteract another character's ability
@@lukeskywalker9016 Number matters of course but even in that there is more nuance.
Hanami was a defensive powerhouse and could take more damage than the rest of the disaster courses (against Gojo it didnt matter 'cause he is so much above everyone no named Sukuna) however they lacked the overwhelming offense that curses like Jogo or Mahito. And even between the two there is nuance. Mahito OTK is based in Human transfiguration and he needs to get close to use it and as versatile as his use of transfigured human is, those attack are for the most part physical blows. Jogo doesnt has a proper OTK but his magma and flames are not only faster but more harded to block.
Its all about the nuance of the fight.
I rarely see scalers who go entirely off of stats and nothing else (unless the power gap is like 50x and the weaker one has no real hax)
@@diegorojas8959 i do agree with what you said here but at the end most of those nuances can be powerscaled with allat mathy and sciency stuff, except for mahito's ability, but that's an exception cuz it's hax
My problem with power scaling - besides what you said - is that it has tended to obscure the fact that most *good* series don't just make two characters fight to see who's stronger. There are ideas being worked out based on how the fight is conducted, who wins, and why they win. Looking allllll the way back to Goku's first fight with Vegeta, there is a clear idea being worked out: Vegeta's pride is his downfall, and Goku is able to summon more strength because he's fighting to protect his home, not to validate his ego.
Vegeta killed his one and only ally out of his own narcissistic obsession with strength, and he fails as a result of it. Not only that, but despite the whole "might makes right" philosophy the Saiyans have, it's Yajirobe - one of the weakest characters in the series - who lands a sneak attack and cuts off Vegeta's tail, breaking his Great Ape transformation. And the kicker is that if Vegeta hadn't killed Nappa, Nappa could have probably had his back. Nappa couldn't walk, but he could still use ki. By killing Nappa out of impatience and hubris, Vegeta threw away a fight he could have turned around, and Goku wins because he's got people who may not be as strong as him, but will back him up when the chips are down.
The really icky thing I keep detecting around power scaling discussions is the idea that Shonen is only about fights, that only fights matter, and that characters have no value unless they posture and beat everyone else up. When a character shows respect to an opponent, it's mocked as the author "glazing" the other character. When a character isn't matching up in terms of strength, people relentlessly mock that character. And I've got to say, if you're the kind of person who would laugh at Mumen Rider for fighting Deep Sea King even as his own body is breaking, you're a bad person and I wouldn't want to be around you.
It's gross because even though Shonen use battle as storytelling, the good ones avoid that "might makes right" mentality that ends up costing Vegeta his victory. They praise the underdogs, people who fight even when they're not stronger. And people who just go on and on and on about strength, strength, strength, power, power, power, sort of just end up sounding more like the villains of these series. Not even the really cool, complex late series villains, either. The jobber villains early on who talk shit, then turn and run when they can't back it up.
I think Stan Lee's stance against Power-scaling is more about how it's impossible rather than it being a bad thing. Like how often things get scaled to FTL because anime/manga love to use "light speed" as a hyperbole. For example, Star Platinum often gets scaled to FTL because he matches Silver Chariot. That seems fine, however this also means that Hol Horse's bullet and Avdol (The human, not Magician's Red) are both faster than the speed of light. I think Stan Lee is advocating for the type of Scaling in the video (looking at it intuitively instead of an overly logistical approach) rather than the entirety of power scaling.
Power scalers need to find out about the unreliable narrator trope
@@felixlara2945True, you can't always rely on narrative as they can also exaggerate the character or feat.
For example Witherzilla (My favorite Example) is said to be capable of destroying the Omniverse. Many people claim he is Boundless just because Omniverse contains Hyperverses, Multiverses, Universes, and everything. But the narrative didn't even say anything about the Omniverse, just Omniverse. No contexts. You can say your character is Outerversal but you didn't even know what Outerversal means.
Also by using terms like "Aleph" "Inaccessible Cardinals" which are legal for powerscaling since the VSBW uses them to scale characters to Outerverse and High Outerverse can't be automatically scaled to those levels without any context. You scale your favorite character to Outerverse because the said character scales to "Aleph" but you don't even know what "Aleph" means.
Narrative is not always a reliable source.
yes, this makes hol horses bullet FTL. It’s not like it’s a STAND and not a actual bullet
@@Slick_editzz Hol horse's bullet is mere inches away from hitting Polnareff. Avdol, from out of no where, pushes Polnareff out of the way. In these series of events, what logical conclusion can be made about Avdol's speed? No calculations, no math, no nothing.
@@terryzhou2851 polnerff was caught off guard when Avdol wasn’t. No, Avdol isn’t faster than polnerff, he just wasn’t off guard. We see that consistently Polnerff is above Avdol in speed. We see in their fight that they are relative with polnerff being slightly faster(I’ll be at that that was because he had his armor on) The only logical conclusion is that Polnerff was caught off guard and Avdol wasn’t. You don’t need calcs or math to power scale, it just makes us fully grasp the power or speed of a feat
Stan Lee is spot on regarding how important that information is. The power of a character compared to some other average is utterly worthless when it comes to writing a story, and putting importance in it is indeed boneheaded. To provide a scientific comparison between two characters is incredibly difficult as references need to be clearly defined, consistent, and the laws of the universe in both series need to be mutually inclusive. You need to make a myriad of assumptions to "accurately" make predictions. So i disagree that you can do power scaling in every single case.
I hait powerscalling because it reduces complex charcters to just their strength or power ,
it proves sukunas. that a heirerchy based in strength is more important
Fictional match up on any website like vsbattle wiki, Character stats or space battles forum is not a story tho, it's a comparison of various categories, so realistically looking at Stan lee's statement he wasn't even talking about power scaling but rather writing or a story which features two characters fighting.
before the Nah I'd Win meme, its Stan Lee's "It depends on the scriptwriter! Its fictional characters!"
Power scaling is fine, It’s how it’s done. Most fandoms inflate their values dramatically by a specific sequence.
All they really have to do is gauge everything realistically
Stan Lee made complete sense man powerscaling is just mfs playing imaginary fights.
Translation: people can't have fun
I don't hate powerscaling but I think people should always do it with the idea that powerscaling is a fucking inexact science that may seem logical but isn't.
I like talking about how power systems and how powers/energy etc interact. Had some cool convos doing that.
What I don’t like is debating who’s stronger with fan rules. It’s usually asinine nonsense that isn’t even fun to debate it’s just irritating
aa
Debates don't seek truth, they seek persuasion. Anybody who debates about who is right fundamentally doesn't understand how debates work OR how being right works.
The part that gets me is that people assume the author meticulously calculates everything single feat of strength before drawing/writing them. So instead of just enjoying the spectacle for being just that, it has to a testament to the exact capabilities and powers of the individual.
My issue with it is the way it gameifies everything. This video kind of touched on it, mentioning how in JJK, characters can be boosted or handicapped based on context, and that's the key thing for me: CONTEXT. A good fight uses its environment, the current state of the characters, and other factors that can change from moment to moment. When I see power scaling, I see people trying to take something complex and reduce it to a mere number. Taking a long list of strengths and weaknesses, contextual advantages and disadvantages, and reducing all of it to "Better and worse".
2:58 "i think the will of the author should be completely thrown out the window, and shouldn't be paid much attention." This was fucking wild to hear, and further makes me believe powerscaling people don't have a single storytelling bone in their body, have never written a story, should have no control over any story, and I can't begin to imagine how many famous stories would be ruined if powerscaling fans were in charge
the biggest problem of powerscaling, is they tries to do it scientifically. but they are straight up sudo science, cus the mistake is them applying real life physics into fictions. there are alot of world building that have imcomplete physics system witch is mostly because most writer are not physist. For the most obvious, Dragon ball straight up do not use the same the same physics in our world, simply by showing him being able to move faster than lightspeed. MCU also doesn't use real life physics, since their quantum physics straight up function differently. Some of these problem seems miniscule, but the powerscalers do all sorts of complicated calculations without comfirming if the physics equation is actually the same in our world.
Trying to use science on fiction where 99% of fictions that people power scale literally make ideas that break reality is why powerscaling will never end.
I think power scaling too often gets bogged down with arguments and egos and loses track of what it is generally about, discussing hypotheticals with those who presumably enjoy the material being discussed (or at least have a passing interest).
Because most power scalers are bias immature lying fangirls that will lie about everything just so their favorite characters can win.
@@ZackSNetworkProof?
@@animemaster4412have you actually ever talked to one of them goons? they are always biased and toxic about it
@@animemaster4412Something I've asked powerscalers to which they've ignored me. And I've talked to alot of them who ruined powerscaling for me
@@marshyboy4637welcome to the Saitama vs goku club
One thing that annoys me about powerscaling is the fact that a lot of powerscalers ignore consistency (in feats) and narrative. especially in JJK it's by far the most important thing in the battles.
**SPOILER WARNING**
Like Kashimo being capable of hitting a weakend 20F Sukuna and Kashimo using radio waves which would make him light speed. Then when Sukuna in his weakend state dodges it, at point blank range, he is FTL but then all the other characters are mach 3 max (so far). It's just so convoluted to try and piece together inconsistency's like that.
Another thing is when Yuji punched Sukuna and he blocked with three arms people were putting Yuji like top 5 above Kashimo and it just doesn't make sense. I hate it sometimes bro.
It's especially difficult for JJK because A) Gege places narrative/fights in a higher regard than character scaling consistency but also B) JJK's power system is inherently inconsistent. cursed energy is a system literally based on emotion. by nature, the tenser the situation, the stronger the opponent and larger the stakes -- the more 'powerful' these characters will become in response. A wall-level character like Yuji will go through a major event and immediately spike to chucking skyscrapers.
These characters seem to suddenly jump to FTL in dire situations despite being 'mach 3' typically because (gege isn't a nerd and doesn't actually do the math every fucking time x character traveled y distance but also) the pressure of the situation at hand has illicit enough of an emotional response to cause such a fluxuation.
This happens to some degree in *any* fighting series, where specific circumstances allow the characters to perform feats well outside their scope -- and creates another issue with powerscaling, where removing these circumstances from dicussion but including the feat bloats the stats of nearly every character analyzed.
The main problem with power scaling is that whoever is doing the scaling doesn’t won’t to be wrong or admit they are wrong during debates
It's a fun, but ultimately pointless exercise. as long as you're aware of the absurdity of it all and don't take it too seriously it should be fine.
The thing i find really annoying is in powerscaling is how they dont really care about the narrative of the story and drag a single feat and completly ignore every feat that makes the character weaker after or even before their own feat, like for example how people use the Haku light speed bullshit, when even later in the story this is completely disproven, like how sasuke keeps up with hakus movements but then cant keep up with Lee who struggled against sound attacks that literally move st the speed of sound, and then how the Raikage using his fastest move would be "Light-like speed" and so many things that completely contradicts this feat, yet they dont care, they keep using it or even worse use stupid logic to boost their fav characters, that is THE worst thing about powerscaling
Tl;dr: Biasnes is the most annoying thing in powerscaling
Powerscaling got mfs saying Deku is planetary
And ichigo can destroy dimensions with an S
I think power scaling is a fun thing to do, but it's the endless heated arguments that ruin it for me.
What you just described about jjk is a good power system. It doesn't fall into the trap of power crip because he identified the ceiling and kept everyone underneath that ceiling making for a far more compelling story than most Manga. The characters always work within the established rules. That's just great writing. If you're a writer this is something to learn and master.
As someone else said it focuses too much on the scaling and not enough on the power. It sounds fun thinking of how powers mix with other powers and how characters interact but it ends up being heated debates that boil down to a number being higher than another number.
*power scaling is fine , but nowadays 80% to 90% of the community is* 🤡
The scaling in JJK is incredibly consistant and doesn't need pixel measurement.
Using the statement that Yuji can run 50 meters in 3 seconds to figure out how fast he can much by comparison and using the power amplification of Black Flash as a highball for cursed energy reinforcement you find that his punches may be able to go at 225 m/s at most.
Naobito can move 24 times in a minute which, assuming he moves 10 meters at each step, would put him at 240 m/s.
Then, piercing blood and cursed womb Naoya are stated to go at the speed of sound (343 m/s), and it's super hard for most of the verse to evade them.
Then curse spirit Naoya is stated to move at Mach 3 (which is 3 times the speed of sound), and people can't even react to this speed which the narrator describes as “overwhelming”.
It's not consistent the verse literally craped out a black hole
the worst part of power scaling is 'faster-than-light arguments' I hate that shit so much, people will completely ignore that either the character 'saw' the attack coming(literally can't see light coming before it 'hits' unless the character has some sort of aoe sense) or the character saw the attack being charged or swept across an area.
'power scalers' are so adamant that the character is now super ultra ftl+++ and it's annoying as fuck.
then obviously 2nd is the cool>real stats, some people really can't comprehend an author stretching the bounds of the current scale to have a cool moment, they just run with it and hell sometimes even manipulate what is shown to make the 'feat' seem even more busted
Fnaf fans when Scott says something crazy about the animatronics power as a joke:
The best way to describe power scalers are the same way I like to describe people that make video essays on youtube.
Not everything is that deep, but no one ever likes the simple answer and want the most confusing and convoluted answer they can come up with. Not everything has to make sense, sometimes people just want to make a cool scene for the sake of it and power scalers will never understand. Its not that deep
I wholeheartedly agree with this video. After seeing people scale Kid frickin' Goku to FTL with planetary strength, I have lost all hope for modern powerscaling.
It's db anyways they are no strange to that kind level of feat I bet you are just mad
@@aromalja9861 I really wish it was that.
Goku's strongest showing as a kid was his battle against King Piccolo. They were the strongest on Earth at that point, barring Kami and Mr. Popo. They fought at high speeds, hitting and blasting each other hard enough to collapse houses and leave massive craters in the ground. The most powerful attack in that fight destroyed a city, and Tien had to save Goku from it.
Simple logic implies that Goku could probably destroy a city. Yet, I see country, moon and planet-destroying levels of power. How do you watch the fight and come to that conclusion?
@@smyominuma1168 See your comment prove what kind of person you are and can you say current goku ap and speed?
@@aromalja9861 I don't get the first part of your statement.
As for power and speed, Goku could probably destroy the universe, and is at least as fast as light.
My biggest annoyance with powerscalers is that they will use a tiny bit of physics to justify their agenda, while ignoring the rest. No, no one can even approach the speed of light, it is literally impossible. "But the physics in that world are different", then how are you choosing what applies and what doesn't?
It's literally impossible for people to manipulate space like Gojo or to grow bone harder than steel out of their bodies like Wolverine or combust into flames without getting hurt like the human torch but it is possible in FICTIONAL stories and if don't have any problems with superpowers existing is stories then you shouldn't have a problem with characters moving faster then light. If you do then your nit picking and being a hypocrite
@@animemaster4412 Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'm fine with in-universe explanations of superpowers. It's fun. I have a problem with people who think they can infer a character's speed or strength using half-assed physics they don't understand. Example: dodging laser beams is a common feat in anime. Many just assume that those characters are faster than light, without realizing that being faster than light would be a HUGE thing. Goku apparently was supposed to be faster than light pretty early in the story according to some powerscalers, but in reality he surely took a while to reach Vegeta and Nappa after being revived, despise being in a hurry. Most of the times, characters dodge lasers because the author thought it was cool. Maybe the lasers in the DragonBall/ One Piece world are pretty slow... Who knows?
@@lucianofrancesco4742 In reality or fiction lasers are 9 times out of 10 made out of light, so logically dodging or moving faster then a laser would make that character faster then light. When a light speed feat is that blatant then it’s not much of an assumption it’s just using logic(Unless the speed feat is a outlier or contradicted later). An assumption would be saying the Arthur had there characters dodge lasers AKA Light because they thought it was cool, you would have to prove that the Author did it for that reason.
@@animemaster4412 So i guess that Goku truly can move faster than light during the Saiyan saga, but saving his friends wasn't really that important. Or Luffy didn't really want to save Law in Dressrosa, after all, he took ages to reach Doflamingo's place while he could easily dodge laser beams before.
Either that, or the author didn't really intended for them to be that fast. Anyone's guess.
@@lucianofrancesco4742 There’s a difference between being able to travel at the speed of light and reacting at the speed of light
I hate when mamgakas integrate powerscaling directly into their stuff. Fights just devolve into "My number is bigger than yours!!"
Thats power creep and its how goku has possible the biggest lifetime increase in power of any psychical fighter becauses db ki system means you can one shot/ blitz/no sell a attack of a ki fighter which powers scalers use *1000
I’m pretty sure Gege mentioned that at one point curse Naoya was like Mach 3 and power scalers said that he was actually relativistic or something
The narrator specifically says it tops at mach 3. Trying to pixel measure or make other justifications for why its higher just doesn't make sense (currently). Gege could come out and say he wanted Naoya to be faster, but for now its silly to say he's any higher than mach 3
Modern powerscaling be like: "This sub-planet level character is more powerful than characters with actual universal+ feats and scales above above high multiversal because R̵̢̩̅͘E̶͚̋͝E̵͉̽͜E̸͍͖̅̀a̵̹̥̍́s̶͈̓͘ọ̸̞͐͘n̵̩̈́͂s̶͖̈́͝ ."
Power scalin could be fun
But people keep turning It into mental torture
Okay, I see your point, I still really love doing power scaling but I really don't like it when people try to use the Stanley statement cuz what he's referring to is the narrative implications within a fight between two characters in the same universe. Not something like cross versus battles or battles where you take the narrative implication out of it and just compare stats which is what a lot of the time versus battles are. So the Stanley statement doesn't truly prove anything
Your entire comment really captures the essence of what a power scaler speaks like
@@Echid7 You mean explaining the rules within a versus battle instead of blindly stating stuff that doesn't make sense... All right buddy ☠️
@@Echid7 yep
@@Echid7 All you normies need to know is that "Goku solos".
goku solos opinion irrelevant, also i find it funny how you call me a normie its like your accepting that youre an unsocial person that does nothing productive in his free time@@geokashi357
Very interesting video!
I'm not super huge onto power scaling, but I've seen times where most debaters would attempt to mold their own versions of certain characters despite the narrative of the franchise and/or it's setting saying otherwise. They would take scenes/statements out of context and interpret certain features in such detail that has never been shown in the original work. Sometimes it got so bad, that it felt like I was reading a fanfiction version of that character.
Sometimes, certain power scalers would selectively pick which arguments that the other power scaler would use; like picking the food that you cattle eats.
I can respect power scaling as a hobby - so long it's productive. It's when the scalers try to convince other people that they have a higher authority over the author for a character/franchise that they didn't write for.
Anybody who views power scaling as a debate is already wrong. Debates are about persuasion, power scaling is ostensibly about truth. You do not reach truth through debate.
The problem with scaling is not understanding the fact that all stories have their share of realism. And it turns out that the more realism the weaker the character? No, in my opinion, strength should be based on mechanics, not about energy levels and training.
I love how the statements are always like “this guy is the fastest/best at this or that EXCLUDING gojo”
They always make it a point that no other sorcerer compares to
him
I do love when the story I'm reading is consistent. I like Gege's approach to power scaling. It's more grounded and doesn't go out of hand like it happens with most shonen. Also, nice video. You're preaching brotha.
I think power scaling matters to the extent that it should not be noticeably inconsistent. Noticeable inconsistency, particularly in a series like JJK that wants you to believe that major characters can drop at any time, lessens drama and tension. Sometimes authors make errors, and it would be better if the error was not there, but the first order concern is weather the error is strong enough to produce dissonance in the audience.
Where is jjks powrscaling inconsistent? I would argue jjk has some of the most consistent power scaling. Idk about the anime bur it's at least true for the manga.
@@og_ratchetllamma8534 instance how the eff Kusakabe and Panda moved way faster than speed of sound to run from Jogo meteor just few meter away while being known among the slowest in their respective fight
@@og_ratchetllamma8534 I mean this video points out that Maki has a mach 400, which is fucking bloody fast. Way faster than she is otherwise portrayed.
But I do agree, JJK IS very consistent with it's power levels, I do think it's errors are small, hard to spot and largely non impactful.
Rather, my point was that consistency is WHY power scaling matters on a narrative level.
Answering to Stan Lee, yes, the writer can do whatever he wants, but not in a way that doesn't break the internal logic of the story. Could Gege have decided Panda to one shot Sukuna and Gojo, marry Maki and rule the Earth from a castle in Mars? Yes, of course, but I don't think it's necessary to point out why this is a bad idea.
😂😂
I have two major problems with powerscaling, you know besides how fun suck it is in a debate. The first is they seem to never take any feats and put them into context. An example of this is Superman punching the multiverse feat, they will take this and treat it as something he could do normally while ignoring that it something he did by shooting himself like a railgun through several suns before punching the Worldforger. Or take someone almost any reality warping being and ignore that it is universal exclusive like the infinity stones. The second is they will take a hax like ability as an absolute ability, like Gremmy from Bleach, then say it is impossible for someone else to beat them because they don't have a hax ability themselves while ignoring that someone beat them with pure brute force or using their brain.
I hate it when people ignore lore, and then when it gets proven once they still say it doesn't even matter. Bro then why was it mentioned in the lore.
Power scaling starts getting dumb when people disregard what that chapter and what THE MANGAKA themselves say, that’s why toriyama for the most part stays out of powerscale questioning range because with a series like dragon ball there’s too much inconsistent shit that it’s gonna piss off most of the fanbase somehow anyways
0:22 nah bro really tried to sneak that past us
I agree with stan lee to a extent as well, it's the author who decides who wins.
But it's also their job to make it make sense in the story gege is a perfect example of this because he clearly thought that Maki grabbing that bullet was a mistake which takes away from the consistency of the series. If there's a explanation for it then it's good writing, the problem is when you start to write random shit and it's nonsensical and the explanation is just "I got a new power out of my ass with no foreshadowing"
I like using RPGs as a example, a lot of people complain about level scaling in games like Oblivion but that is exactly what happens when you throw away consistency. In skyrim dragons are another example of this, Alduin is a literal joke and random nameless dragons that appear at later levels are stronger than he is even though he's the strongest dragon in the story, it's completely nonsensical and it's just gameplay now imagine you do that in an story without a explanation.
Anti powerscalers Always be saying "it's the author who decides who wins"
I remember when I found out about the Seth the programmer stuff I was with my cousins and recommended the channel. You can imagine how that went.
omg u put my thoughts into video form, like i always thought these people making these power scaling vids don’t understand the story the way they scale
My biggest problem with power-scaling is something you touched on which is that it often goes against the logic of the series, or at least against things we clearly see in the series. One of the biggest examples I like to use is Jojo's characters are stated to be faster than light because there are feats that most major characters scale to of certain people dodging light beams or dodging sun-rays
except....these same characters, often in the same episode, will turn around and jump on a motorcycle, in a truck, or even ride a CAMEL because vehicles are a faster means of transportation for them!!!
It's one thing to say they can PUNCH at light speed, but if you really think they can MOVE their entire bodies at light speed then you must logically think they can run around like the Flash, but that's clearly not what is shown in the series.
Most Jojo characters run at normal human speeds. So you clearly can't just define someone by a single feat. That's like watching a boxing match where someone throws 101 punches and 1 of those punches causes a knockout and you somehow say "okay so this guy's punching power = the knockout punch, IGNORING THE OTHER 100 COMPLETELY!!!!)
Or like watching a boxing match where someone throws 101 punches and the commentator says that the boxer punches at light speed and dodges like god.
Power scaling. love the concept, hate the execution. But when done right, its good.
People hate powerscaling because they are bias asf & Brain dead. They overrate feats for their favorite character & they downplay feats from characters they dont like or from animes they haven't watched or dont like.
the most annoying part is how power scalers think that stronger characters makes a show better 💀💀like i can write a shit story then throw a literal god into there as the mc, that doesnt make the show somehow good 💀💀
You're thinking of people who only like power not powerscalers as a whole. Having good powering scaling in a story is good even if it isn't like planet level
Boruto time skip in Nutshell
Sukuna plot armor still fucks my mind to this day
he has no plot armor
@@Hispanocel😐
>people acting like Sukuna is the best character because he's soOOooooOOoo strong
>the real ones who realize he's just a Mary Sue who would lose to a bag of wet paper in a personality competition
The problem is when one starts forcing their argument into the other, who has different understanding of the fiction
It is fun. Not everyone has the same opinion, and everyone is allowed to take the idea they like the most.
6:56 that feat has calcs all over the place.
The feat would be much slower than most calcs because they don't consider her moving back increasing the timeframe and Mai using rubber bullets with a speed of 60 m/s.
All she would have to do is move her back relative to the bullet's speed and her arm a bit faster.
True, I often dodge sniper shots in airsoft by reaction, but it doesn't mean that I need to run at 100+ m/s to do it.
Stan Lee speaking facts especially after what we saw in Jujutsu Kaisen
You mean Sukuna Kaisen?
@@Orion__noLobotomy Kaisen
Powerscaling can be pretty fun, but since many Manga authors follow the "rule of cool" and don't necessarily bother with the details- people who attempt to apply numbers and "logic" to anime end up filling in the gaps with interpretation. Which they most often are horrible at, because they can't see narrative intent.
It's why everyone and their grandma scales to FTL.
In other words, this video.
Cool!
1:43 stan lee was predicting Sukuna vs Gojo 😭😭😭
King from One punch man literally solos all your favorite characters, it's not even close.
King is one of my favorite characters, therefore he solos himself
Not mr. Satan tho
Powerscalers be like: cheetah blitzes bear because he is faster.
I think that people atill refuse to accept how atypical JJK is in terms of structuring fights and power levels even as we come to the ending. In ch 247 we see Higuruma learn RCT and DA like it's nothing, but despite this he gets obliterated by Sukuna the moment Sukuna is done watching him grow. I think that Sukuna vs Gojo was meant to be the be all end all strongest fight in the series in terms of "raw stats" and now we are getting into the end where the main cast will need to use any and every small advantage to win matter the cost. The cast may be stronger, but there will be no Master Ultra Instinct for Yuji to pull out against the unbeatable wall that Sukuna is
I think that's what makes JJK scaling fun because there's a lot of people on the level of Hakari, Yuta, Maki/Toji, etc. that have relative physical stats and you have to discuss how abilities interact rather than "my character blows up more things than yours"
@@mxcn152 I find it weird how you mentioned the strongest characters in the series for "people on that level." A better example would be to look at how grade 1s like Kusakabe and Choso fight against opponents that are physically stronger than them and still have the potential to come out on top.
@@MrAnimason I'm talking abt vs battles within that group like Yuki, Kenjaku, Hakari, Toji, Uraume, Kashimo, etc because their abilities are all interesting and they have a lot of statements that connect them (yuta, hakari, maki being heavy hitters for example)
@@mxcn152 Except it often ignores her how messy that kind of scaling can get.
It rare gets now to how things work and doesn't consider how, in character motivations, and making the debates run on sheer hype.
I honestly like the approach Gege when with “power scaling” isn’t his story. Similar to HXH, scaling characters gets tricky bc everyone can have a good shot at beating the other depending on how tactical they are. Chrollo is by far not even close to the hardest hitter in the series when it comes to strength. But what makes him a hard opponent is his ingenuity being unmatched. Jjk has a similar thing going on especially at the beginning. Everyone except Gojo and Sakuna, could be a toss up in power scaling due to the fact of how relatively even each character are. Infact the further down you got the more the character even out. Gege purposely wrote it this way and left it ambiguous.
I think using dragon ball for powerscaling is a bad idea.
Not only did the dragon ball author STOPPED USING the powerscale system he put IN THE STORY ITSELF earlier on in dragon ball z.
But also in dragon ball, there is usually NO REASON a character is as strong as they are besides the author saying they are.
For example, how did we go from around city level at most, to PLANETARY in og dragon ball?
personally i used to enjoy power scaling a lot, i still dabble from time to time, but nowadays comparing stuff from other series is boring because people have very stubborn biases and stuff which makes it annoying, but i still like to think about scaling in the same verse, i do it a lot with jjk because its much more fair and less theoretical
Hell even Godzilla fallen victim in power scaling
I find it funny how some people use debunk on some characters that was stated and explained to be actually doing crazy thing
And they just debunk by using math and crap just to downgrade the characters, like bruh
Crazy how scaling is never brought up in the shows and magically nobody agrees on the outcome
I hate power Scaling, because most of the feats that you see and everything are exactly the same. There's strong different types of action lines. So trying to theoretically figure out how strong a character is cool when you're not making. I don't know a business out of it But ultimately it doesn't matter. Different power systems skilled differently at different places
Power scalers when they figure out you don't have to be faster than something to dodge it and you only have to react to the aim not the actual projectile 😨😨😱😱😱😱
Bro fr they act as if a human pulled the trigger at the same speed than the bullet
This actually helped me understand a lot more, since I usually don't care that much about power scaling as long as I feel like the story beats hit well. I appreciate the analogies, thank you!
aa
literally every powerscaler violating every last rule under ZFC and destroying set theory
violates every relation and formula established
most arguments they pose are just no limit fallacy
banger vid again, this 10 minutes just flew by. Thanks. Excited to see where you go with the channel after the season wraps up ;)
Love that you took Hanami to explain your point. The Disaster Curses havent had a fall off at all in my mind and would still pose major problems.
Completly agree with your video.
2:30 bold of you to assume anime fans have reading comprehension skills😂
to me powerscaling is just a nerdy stuff that isnt needed to the way a story is told, but still very funny to do
Power scaling isn't a popularity contest. It's about who out who would win based on their character/feats/load out without plot armor anything else isn't powerscaling. Don't know why every other youtuber seems to have a problem with that. Sure it's all fake and real world physics wouldn't apply in some cases but it's the only reference point we have. Sure it won't be 100% but fuck it's entertaining anyway, if you don't like it that's fine, just leave it and go find something else to hate on.
@ahmadadnan4773Dracula is more popular than DBS? i didnt know about that
@ahmadadnan4773 fouls happen all the time in basketball. Does that mean basketball is all about pushing/hitting the other players? No. Those are just people without proper arguments or actual dumb kids.
Because powerscalers love their own narratives. I always laugh when a One Piece fanboy says that Luffy moves 1500 times faster than light. They say they are logical but always ignore it when it is convenient.
The thumbnail made my brain split apart and ate itself
Powerscalling is fun for casual discussion. But believing it as facts is stupid. It's not that deep, bruh. Don't go shaming authors and people because they didn't follow your headcanon.
i totally agree on one point , writers tend to upscale their whole verse too much so they can introduce a new villain.
the hero has to use some punching to beat the 1st villain and next thing you know , the 9th villain won't get hurt unless you trow mountains at him
That's literally how marvel comics work. Hulk Thor and superman were never multiverse busters. However the writers intrudeced stronger and stronger villians and the stakes got higher and higher. Ultimately that's all horrible writing anyway but you get what I mean.
If I hear "massively faster than light" one more freaking time...
Faster than light
Goku be faster than light but can dodge a bullet that's wild
@@AniSwiftTVRecaps pre crisis superman can destroy a solar system with a snezze but get one shot by a shotgun.
@@tomgu2285 let's sew how far we can go, Naruto is solar system level but got stabbed straight through by a regular sword going in his strongest form
power scaling breeds toxicity and hate.
character fanboying, glazing, and bias towards "OMGEGEEGGEGEGE insert character here IS THE HEIGHT OF GODLINESS HE WINS ALWAYS GSUDBSBJBFKJS"
the only true way to be unbiased is to scale characters you know nothing about or are neutral towards.
if you like luffy you'll overrate luffy.
if you hate goku you'll downplay him.
nobody's word can be trusted really not even mine because I like everyone else have bias towards characters.