Pros vs Ams: Shoulder Rotation and Arm Depth! 🏌️♂️
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In this week's episode of Pros vs Ams, Mike Granato and Shaun Webb of Athletic Motion Golf dive into the shoulder rotation and arm depth of the golf swing.
If you're a player who is confused or struggling with shoulder rotation and/or arm depth during your golf swing, this training is most definitely for you.
The shoulder rotation or shoulder turn in the golf swing is a detailed move that can be simplified and in today's video, you'll get a shoulder turn lesson and arm depth lesson that will greatly improve your game when implemented.
You'll also discover how to get more lead arm depth in your golf swing. And we mean getting real depth and not just fake depth in the backswing so you're better ball striking.
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This was the most informative video I’ve ever saw on golf. Period.
Love it, thanks for checking it out. We hope it helps!
Absolutely 100% agree. Great video - tried it out this week, night and day difference in consistency of contact.
Absolutely amazing. Thanks so much guys.
Exceptional. Don’t think I’d have ever figured this out without your video. I’ve stopped coming over the top, while naturally shifting my weight to my left - without consciously thinking about anything but rotating my shoulders as described in your video
@@bezraznizu awesome job 👏. What made it click for you, the right or left side?
I somehow have to remind myself to rewatch this 3x a year. This is a game changer. Watched this like 8 months ago and am now rewatching it, this is a key for my swing to work and it's easy to get away from
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Wow, how are you even doing this for free😱. Not complaining though😃. Thanks for the detailed lesson and your work in developing the game 🙏🏼
We do offer online memberships and training programs were we get to see your swings on a regular basis, but we try to give away as much valuable info as we possibly can 🙂
Do you have a live lesson video where you show a student how to do this? Or a video where you show how? If not can you pleas make one 🤙🏼🙏🏼
I’ll have to go back and look, but if not we can do one 👍
@@AthleticMotionGolf Revisiting this video...any videos on drills or "how-to"? Thanks in advance!
Love the way you guys show in 3D format and explain what is being done wrong and then how to do it right. Keep up the excellent work
Awesome. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching 👊
Tony’s “before” avatar reminds me of every RUclips instruction I view about keeping the swing “connected”.
💯
@@AthleticMotionGolf is there more info on this topic ?
I videoed my swing the other day, and I only get to " club vertical " position.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Had 2 lessons when i started golf 12 yrs ago.The second one of stuffing a towel under my armpits (to cure a massive overswing caused by the 1st!) gave me 5 yrs of short (but straight) golf and a saying heave!
"Connection" is an illusion caused by correct sequencing and athletic motion.
This is brilliant. Exactly what I needed to understand the physique of what I am trying to do. Love that. Let me know what I can do for you guys, apart from spreading the word.
@@jmack619 the gist is that your arms move up and back down, the turning motion is like 98% driven by your chest/back.
Going to say right now, that this is most likely, the greatest contribution to the education of the masses, about the golf swing, in the entire history of golf - simply incredible.
Wow! Thanks so much for the kind words🙏. We certainly wish we had known this years ago for our own swings lol.
How much of that lead shoulder protraction / trail shoulder retraction is reversed in the Pro downswing? Is it totally symmetrical or do they hold on to any of those angles at impact?
I'm wondering the same thing
🤯🤯🤯 this is insane. Truly amazing stuff. This new 3rd is a whole new level. (I can’t wait to show my wife…. She was an sports ortho PA. This might finally get her golfing with me… and the driver head covers that look like dogs) thanks!!
Those driver headcovers are THE reason to start playing 😆
Man if I had a dollar for every 60 something that claimed to be a single digit handicap... I'm like.. dude I just watched you make 20 horrible swings and not make solid contact with a single one.
hahaha
I think the reason we don't see the right shoulder in the proper back position is because most older golfers think that the right elbow needs to be tucked which moves the joint forward like they see in Ben Hogan 5 Lessons of Golf. Sometimes what the eyes see is transformed into misconception and not actually what is really happening in the golf swing. First time I've heard someone cover this, thank you!
Such a great point. The “transformed into misconception” is a great way to say it. Thanks hen add in all how we all see things a bit differently and it’s inevitable that what we think happens will start deviate from what does happen. Thanks for commenting.
Dont stop pull hooking. You want a weak slice that 100 yards shorter and equally off line??
A pull hook swing is like an engine that starts but has bad timing. A slice is an engine that just sputters and wont start.
A pull hook can be turned into a draw but a slice never turns into a fade.
One simple drill (holdig a towell under the right armpit) can give a bad pull hooker the feeling of correct timing. There is more correction required of course. But tuning a slice move like that is impossible.
Bottom line is the golf swing PULLS the club through the strike. Allways. Teach a slicer to pull hook is the first step in their rehabilitation.
😅😅
This is not discussed enough. I understood this from your previous video, and it was a game changer for me. Over time I kinda fell back to just turning the chest and all the problems that follow. I'll save this video to my library and watch it every month. I think this ties in with re-centering. This is gold guys. 👍
It ties in nicely with re-centering 👍🏻🏌️♂️
Amazing difference, 40 years of golf and I didn’t know this! Can’t wait for the next club comp, I’ll show those kids a thing or two!
Show those young bucks no mercy!😊
I've been watching this channel for about a year now, and I'm thankful (and amazed) that you guys provide all this information for free!
Thank you for being a loyal watcher! If you ever need help with your swing, we do offer a couple different options on our website 🙂. If not, please keep watching the videos here 🙏
As with the lead arm adduction video, I'm going to watch this a gazillion times. Wow. You guys are breaking ground in golf teaching. I'm so blessed to have a local instructor here in Cali who utilizes the same concepts and relies on the info you guys put out. Do you guys interact with Saso M or Phil C? It seems like your ability to put these concepts into digestible form with their scientific research is a match made in golf heaven.
Wow Guys! Your video not only gave me 20 to 30 more yards in driver carry distance, but by getting into the slot more consistently, my blocks left and slices right have virtually went away. It’s been the holy grail for me! Bravo and thank you. Jim, 66 y/o.
P.S. Stretching the shoulder and back muscles are a huge part of my pre-game routine.
Would love to see a live lesson where you work on this issue with a golfer.
We have a few videos where we do that 🏌️♂️👍🏻. One of our live lessons does for sure
@@AthleticMotionGolf link?
I volunteer
@@tickvball you can see it for a subscription fee ;)
I DO appreciate the videos we do get to see.
@@TRaddcliff I have no problem paying for golf instruction. I do not expect golf pros to deliver content for free. And I do appreciate Athletic Motion and others offering SO much to it's subscribers both paid and un paid. My question intent was to get more clarity and info. If they would have provided a link (event if it costs money) that would have been fine...but nothing was provided to help point me in any direction. One of the problems with having sooo much content to access, is actually finding the specific content they were referencing and what I was looking for.
Phenomenal! Can't thank you guys enough for the crystal clear explanation. AMG debunks golf swing myths again!
Thanks for watching! Any suggestions for the next one?
@@AthleticMotionGolf Causes of hand path coming in too deep too early (I'd imagine some of that ties to this)
@@MichaelWilliams-qw8yd very much so👍
I just discovered this channel. Your 3D animation and explanation of shoulder prostration and retraction is eye-opening. After just a few slow motion practice swings, I could see and feel how “widening” the swing should work. I instantly had much less left arm bend in my backswing. I never understood how other players could keep their left arm straighter than me until now. I just thought that I didn’t have the flexibility.
This is incredible what you guys were able to visual show here with your understanding of the golf swing and the aid of this new software. Fantastic stuff guys.
Thanks for checking it out. We’ve already learned a bunch from the software. We can’t wait to share it🤓
At the age of 67, I still had a good shoulder turn prior to seeing this video, but now it is more effortless and I actually have added distance after incorporating the concepts of this video. My buddies refer to me as the geriatric gumby.
hahahha love it
Absolutely fantastic. I've been taking lessons and this has never been pointed out to me. Thank you!
It would help to see a real person doing the different stages of practices.
We should be able to make that happen🤓
Awesome explanation! You guys keep helping me change my concepts. So glad to part of the AMG+ community which is helping me take these fundamental concept changes and making them a reality in my swing.
Thanks so much for being a part of AMG plus. We love having you in there Russ
Great visuals. What do you goes use to capture the swing and then provide those visuals. Great information!!
Being a sports medicine physical therapist, this is the BEST way I understand the golf swing. Biomechanics. Thank you guys. I definitely adduct. I hope you guys do a similar of your already awesome hip rotation pros vs ams video! That had been my favorite one - until this!
Thanks!!! WE will do a hip video also :)
Hello Guys it's not always easy to translate and understand what you want to explain for a person all the way from Belgium. But with you're professional explenation and visualisation I did understand well. This importend shoulder turn could not have been explained better.
Thank you both very much!
That was a such a cool complement to the previous lead arm adduction video. You guys continue to amaze me. Please keep up the great content!
Thanks so much!! appreciate the kind words
Rewatching this. The main point I want to make is how much you gentlemen have enhanced my golfing experience!!! I feel very fortunate to be playing really good golf at the age of 62 - was a 2hdcp for a couple of weeks this summer! DEFINITELY couldn’t have done it without your sage expertise!!! ❤️
@@louislane1968 That’s all you bud! Great playing 🫡
you guys continue to amaze me with the quality of content and explanations! This vid is very eye opening!
Thank you were glad it helped :)
This is gold. I wonder if you could do the same video for the follow through? What are the same joints and angles doing in the follow through. Thanks.
good idea!
Wow! Another video with instant impact, two in a row. I notice the feeling in the right arm being very different - makes sense, it's not cramped up now. Thank you so much. Best golf instruction channel on YT by far
Great! Thanks for the kind words !
You guys are just blowing me away with this stuff!! Amazing!! Thanks guys. And i just signed up for AMG+ !!!
You guys are insane. All this tech!
You must include this drill into the flight fix series. Just brilliant stuff.
The Flight Fix is the Godfather to all of this🤓
Would love to see a video regarding club release. How the club is brought back to impact for the pros. Is it; rotation, is it release of wrist angle, straightening of the trail arm or all of the above?
I started golfing less than a month ago and I am so grateful your videos exist. My biggest goal is to start off with as few bad habits as possible and knowing what issues other golfers have and ways to fix them is extremely valuable. Thank you!
I figured that by trial and error using a speed radar, much better speed generated with less bended right hand. So my swing thought is like keeping right hand close to the body but less bend with right hand.
Ok great !
Best golf instructors on youtube no exceptions. The last time i commented i was down to 11 from 15 having gradually implemented the techniques from your videos, I am now down to 10 and and just 0.5 away from been a single handicap golfer.This is the best breakdown of shoulder movement I have ever seen!! Amazing work
Wow!!! We’re so happy for you! Keep improving
excellent video!! Question? Would you say "Protracting the left Shoulder" promotes "left side bend" in the backswing? or are the 2 pieces unrelated? I have a difficult time with "left side bend"
As long as the shoulder doesn’t shrug ups as you’re doing it👍
Love this. I teach full time. I feel like I’m basically teaching this already, but no way I could explain in that level of anatomical detail or have quite that depth of understanding for why. Thank you for posting. Love y’all’s videos.
We certainly didn't invent good shoulder movements. Great players have been doing it like this since the tweed coat days, lol. We do hope to help by being able to finally show it to the golfers looking to improve. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment, and thanks for already teaching the correct shoulder turn! 👊
Does this happen at the start of the back swing or later or later in the backswing near the transition area
As an A&P nerd, this video has to be the single most effective breakdown to help me understand what my lead arm should be doing
glad it helped. Thanks for commenting ;)
Yep that's me near the end. Right shoulder comes forward and club gets steep. Also noticed most pros have a very high right shoulder on the backswing while my turn is too level. If I don't go steep with a level turn, then the club will go outward and I'd miss the ball completely.
This is awesome. Over bending the trail arm is an epidemic I see it daily on my lesson tee. This is a great video showing some new reasons why and how to combat it. Great work
:)
I wish I could leave you guys a tip! this information is worth a lot to me. I have played for decades and am a plus handicap, so over tons of trial and error i have come to suspect that a good backswing "involves the shoulder blades", but this really explains more than I had figured out. Thank you guys, this is really the cutting edge of golf instruction
This video is like the last piece of the puzzle i have been looking for. I have been trying to cure the 100+ degree right elbow with a right shoulder that is too far forward, best video yet.
You got it, there’s not enough room to straighten it out. Thanks for watching 👊
this was exactly my problem too, just been to the range and had a fantastic session following these tips
I felt lifting my right shoulder in the back swing helped
This Pros vs Ams series has been, by far, the best youtube golf lesson for me! It really helps me understand what ams like myself is doing wrong.
that was our hope! Glad it helps
I feel my shoulder is not pointing down enough. How far down should my left shoulder be on my back swing!
Not much.
Great content, very helpful and also entertaining to watch. Wish this info was available 30 years ago when I started playing golf ! Thanks Mike and Shaun.
As a biomechanics aficionado and physician I really appreciate your descriptions of the movements most pros use. Brilliant explanation and pictures revealing the left collar bone and it’s movement but what about the right, including the right scapula in both backswing and downswing! Please do a complimentary video isolating those movements as well.
Wow! played golf for over 30 years at a good level and I've never considered this. Tried it on my simulator today and the ballspeed increase was quite significant. Much easier to maintain lag with one arm pushing and the other pulling, also the arm structure on the backswing was much more solid without the arms bending and allowing the clubhead to continue travelling past horizontal! Love the limp archer graphic....
Glad it helped !!!!
I need your help. Please contact Bryson DeChambeau for me. Tell him to switch to normal length sand wedges. He needs to improve chipping from tall green side rough!
We can't seem to find he cell # 😂
Cool shirt, Granto. Remember though, "You can't go back, You can never go back...The Eagles" Nothing says you can't try....
Never 😊
So good. This video highlights brilliantly the Mike Bender wall drill. Sharing with others!
Holy crap guys. You just brought this to a whole new level. The graphics are over the top. Thank you for everything. Extremely helpful.
Thansk for the kind words!!!
TOPIC SUGGESTION: Using the same concepts, what do the lead and trail shoulders do during the downswing? I imagine the power of the scapular muscles are much greater than the deltoids, so that could be a partial explanation for the lack of power in a swing that did not use the shoulder rotation in the back swing.
I think it allows for separation between shoulder turn and torso turn. This creates natural lag without conscious action by tbe golfer. The lag is what creates effortless swing speed because the head of the club falls behind the handle and then must catch up at the ball.
This came up in my feed accidentally as a *disc* golfer. Pretty impressive analysis. I wish we had these tools handy for our sport as well because I need something like this. Somewhat surprisingly (or maybe not), I think there are many commonalities between good form in these sports.
i bet there is !!
Never seen this shoulder discussion before. Wish you guys had shown what the shoulders do in the downswing though. Does the left shoulder retract in addition to the torso rotation?
We will shoot another vidoe on that topic soon
Great information. Both of my shoulders have been replaced. I'm looking forward to seeing how this will help.
Does the right shoulder also pull back in the swing?
Yep
Wow! Just wow! I, too, have had Tony’s misconceptions about how the shoulder and arms are supposed to work in the backswing, and consequently, like Tony, my left arm breaks down, too, as it runs against the chest. I’ve always explained it away as a lack of suppleness and flexibility. This is one video I will rewatch multiple times in an effort to master the correct shoulder movement due to a more informed conception. Thanks again for your amazing work. Incredible.
Many times its not a flexibility issue..its a concept issue :)
I have watched a ton of swing instruction videos on youtube and you guys at AMG are without a doubt one of the best! I am a single digit handicap - but at times struggle with a "stuck' feeling in my backswing that causes me to throw the club. In my first practice session after watching this video, I gained 4-5 mph (12-15 yards) with my 7 iron (175 carry) - with less effort. Thanks a million fellas - keep up the great work!
Awesome job putting this info to work straight away👏. I don’t think we mentioned it in the video, but feeling easier is one of the most common comments we here when guys first learn about this. Great job!
I just started doing Monday qulaifiers for the Champions Tour. I STUMBLED upon this ovement without knowing exactly how I was hitting it longer and swallowing my swing. Absolute gold!!! We will share this with our golf clients in our Fore Seasons program as an all expense paid trip to your facility for a lesson!
great!
This is primo instruction. You guys have stepped it up with the computer models and the collaboration of two is another benefit. Thank you
The comment you make at 16:00 is a game changer and could probably use it's own video. I've been golfing for 30 years and about a 6 handicap and started struggling with a little over-the-top and this is exactly why. I simply pulled that shoulder down and back at address and kept that feeling and it immediately turned into a tight draw. Feeling that shoulder down and back also forced me to line up more square, which felt too far right, but it wasn't. Another amazing video guys!
glad it helped!! We have fixed a lot of golfers with this feel
Nice... You really get to see not only how it's done, but when you try it.. The first few times I notice small muscles were tense in there somewhere and I had it all locked up somehow.. Great stuff.
Love the new 3D models. Adds an even greater level of clarity to the lesson. Great job as usual!
Thanks for the kind words !!
This is insanely insightful. One of the most hidden and needed movements
Awesome video. Would have been great to see some of the actual lesson also and then compare to the avatar. Thanks again for the exceptional content.
It would’ve been. But not everyone (for different reasons) can be featured in a public video. The 3D captures let us still protect the person’s privacy while still being able to share their lesson.
What drills could you do to practice creating this feeling and starting the backswing dynamically? Great video and explanation!
we will shoot some follow up videos soon :)
Wow. These videos are getting better and better. Thank you so much for sharing. You guys have been a big help for even a newbie golfer like me.
Awesome! Thanks for letting us help 🙏
Absolutely great video with visual and verbal clarity! The new age “models” make your explanations easier to understand and replicate. Your best yet.👍
Awesome, glad to hear the new avatars help making what we're showing easier to see. Thanks for watching!
This was awesome you simply cannot see the motion of the shoulder during the swing until you do the way you just did it. I would love to see this style of review isolating different parts of the body during the swing. Hips, trail wrist, etc Very cool!
We’re working on it 🤓. This series takes a lot of time with the amount of data involved, but we feel they’re worth the effort for what they can show.
@@AthleticMotionGolf awesome, looking forward it. This is the best format for understanding what is really happening that I have ever seen!
Yeah I'm guessing there are a few lesser used muscles in the core and back that pro golfers have developed over time which allow them to stabilize their body at a greater turn angle. The body knows and reacts subconsciously when it's off balance or it doesn't have the muscle stability to move a certain way.
Great video. Would love a follow-up showing the shoulders during the downswing and follow thru.
This just solved a 22 year old mystery for me. Unbelievable guys, thank you. The data and the explanation together - just perfecto.
FABULOUS lesson!!! You guys are the best!
Beautiful example of what the pros refer to as “ keeping the club in front of them”. They don’t let their left arm collapse across the chest, they move their scapulae. The Robin Hood drill is money $$$
Thanks!!!
Phenomenal visuals, absolutely stunning learning tools combined with practical indept insight.
Thank you so much!
Wow! Amazing. You guys are light years ahead of the other instructors on RUclips.
Best golf video, period! Instantly increase overall distance with every club in my bag. Thank you for what you do.
I am SO glad I found your videos. I haven't played much in the past 25 years,
but I'm now 70 and retired, looking to recapture my game and improve on what I used to have. I think with your help I can accomplish this. Thank you!
Superb video. Would love to see one on flat shoulder rotation vs a more vertical one. I feel my shoulders are a bit flat and it contributes towards me swinging steep with less power.
Reminiscent of the Golf Channel Swing Expedition episode with Chuck Cook which was one of the best-and simplest- descriptions of the golf swing I’ve ever seen. Rear shoulder over the rear heel, rear shoulder down to the ball, rear shoulder to the target.
Love the new graphic modeling! Well done guys. You are incredible for us nerds to geek out on
We hope it helps! 🤓
Love your videos and how they break down how the golf swing actually works. Something I was looking into while I was practicing was , gripping the club. Maybe do a vid on Palm grip /strong grip , Palm grip/weak grip , finger grip/strong grip and finger grip/weak grip etc.. and what affect it has on your golf ball.
sure! THanks for the comment we will do a video like that
Game changer! you guys are taking it to the next level! Thank you for all the great contents!
Thanks for watching! Let us know if there’s anything you’d like to see us cover👍
Revolutionaries ☮️🙏🏻♥️
Thanks for checking it out 👊
Eye opening gents 👌 really like the idea of working on the shoulders. Will definitely try this out. I can ‘see’ how it should help consistency in the downswing (I have suffered from the steep downswing (recently worked with a coach on it).
this will fix a lot of steep downswings :)
Wow guys this is a instant physical sensation that completely changed the depth across my backswing . I do wonder if it will wear my shoulder in a different way …? Look forward to trying this in depth …. Thank you gentlemen.
love it. keep us posted
Thanks for video. It has been a game changer for me. Specifically, the importance of the right shoulder turning back (pulling back on the bow). There are 2 more concepts that have significantly changed my swing for the better…the grip and higher hands at top of back swing.
Awesome, glad it helped. Soundsljke your swing is on the right track 👏
Do you move the scapulas to their max on the backswing? Should you setup with your caps already preset to the max rotational position?
Great visuals!! Thanks!! I'm in my twenties and quite flexible. At adress my shoulders are already pretty far protracted and basically in front of my chest, pushing it together, letting my elbows nearly touch. I have no problems rotating but it feels more powerful when I keep my shoulders further back at adress and push my chest out more. Do you have advice for me? Thank you for your great videos!!
Greetings from Germany
Jonathan
Hi, really excellent explanation of the shoulder rotation. What I don’t understand is how Tony increased also his chest turn from 67 deg to 77 deg. You only explained the +10deg shoulder rotation….. Ben
Hey guys, this video is so awesome. I’ve worked on using this protraction/retraction pattern in my backswing. But can I ask, what is the feel for this in the downswing? Do you reverse this movement, or do you let the arms lower from that protracted/retracted position? Or is it both? I’d love it if you guys made a video breaking down the answer!
I accidently did this for a few holes and thought I figured out golf! The only lingering question I have now is at what point in the take away/backswing should I be thinking about protracting my left shoulder? Right away? Around parallel, etc. I'll experiment at the range, but if you have any pointers from your amazing tech that would be great...
Wonderful video. Doing what you are showing here is what also produces the sought after full turn back, so that you get your back toward the target as much as your body will allow. That full turn combined with focusing on keeping the right (trail) arm as extended (or unfolded) as possible and the left arm as straight as possible, is what creates a wider arc and more swing speed, more distance, better trajectory, better contact. It definitely takes some extra effort to make that fuller turn back, certainly at my age (80) and you have to concentrate on giving your body time to do it, not rushing the downswing. If you make the turn back doing what you show here, you will also find that your hands at the top of the backswing are straight out behind you, while if you fold the left arm across the chest as your client did initially, your hands will end up trapped too far behind you, making it difficult to get back to the ball correctly. Thank you very much for a super lesson.
wow great explanation there! Were glad it helped you :)
This is an awesome video. I can’t wait to get out on the range and test this. I’m a feel guy and just don’t understand the swing. I think seeing the skeletal model helps me understand the back swing more. I’ll let you know. Thanks for the hard work!
Love it. Let us know how it goes 👍
How did the test go?
You guys are great! first try I turned about 20 % more! and noticeable more width.
Wow, if I wasn’t confused enough, lol. Actually this is very informative. I do have a quick question. From what I have gleamed from your videos on the left arm, no we don’t want to pin that arm against the chest obviously, but there is some “in” as well as up, correct, during the backswing?
Hello. Love the videos you guys make. Quick question, could the same shoulder movements be applied to the putting stroke? What do you think?