Why is the manager transfer market so weird right now?
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Welcome to The Athletic FC's RUclips channel, where best-in-class journalism meets video.
This season we’ve seen a historic low of managers being sacked from the Premier League and also Bayern Munich’s extraordinary (and still ongoing) manager search. Why aren’t managers being fired mid-season anymore? And why is it so hard to find a manager for an elite club?
Joe Devine, JJ Bull and Jon Mackenzie are joined by Seb Stafford-Bloor to find out why the manager transfer market is so weird right now.
This is The Athletic's Week in Football.
#manchesterunited #premierleague #bayern
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Chaptes:
00:00 Intro
00:21 What’s “weird” about the manager market?
03:03 Why is the manager market weird?
04:22 PL Relegation Candidates
07:11 Rising Manager Quality in the PL
09:22 How the PL affects the European market
10:20 Bayern Munich’s Manager Search
12:16 What are Bayern looking for?
14:58 What about Roberto De Zerbi?
17:50 Brighton's problems this season
21:09 Why De Zerbi is a good fit for United
22:43 Next Steps for Manchester United
25:38 Is this an outlier season?
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Music sourced from Epidemic Sound
Additional footage sourced from AP Newsroom 
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Predict the managerial merry-go-round this summer 👇
If Eleven-Hag wins the FA Cup this year, I'll forgive Bruno .
Southgate to Utd... Everyone else dies of laughter!
Van Bommel suprise appointment to Bayern.
Man United - Tuchel
Chelsea - Poch stays, or else Ruben Amorim
West Ham - Lopetegui
Bayern - Hansi Flick
Milan - Fabio Conceição
Juve - Thiago Motta or Conte
Napoli - Pioli
@@hugocosta7958 Wasn't Conte to Napoli pretty much confirmed?
Some nights I dream that the tifo football podcast is still running and the world is at peace. Then I wake up.
Then you wake up to this which is a nice consolation
I miss all the videos, too. Seems now it's just this, the ordinary quick animated ones, and youtube shorts. I get channels change and people won't always like it, but I wish they'd explain
@@mylittlethoughttreeNYT
@@mylittlethoughttree you can only say the same thing so many times, they kept the podcast cuz it contains all the videos if you get what I’m sayin
@@mylittlethoughttreea huge fan of yours. Never change like that pls
Would be insane if all these episodes got uploaded to Podcast Applications on a weekly basis with the same hosts
I love that this trio is back as a consistent podcast each week
Bit sad he has dropped THE BULLARD though, I miss that.
@@mrtimharrington The Athletic do not approve of excess fun.
Is this available as a podcast feed? That is, not video?
And a bit of seb
This feels like the closest of the new format to the original Tifo vibes. Keep it up chaps!
That Norm Macdonald t-shirt is beautiful.
Love it!
I'm so happy to know JJ is a Norm fan
I remember when Ten Hag was the De Zerbi of his time and when the media were praising him like crazy..
De Zerbi revolutionized the game. EtH didn't revolutionize anything. He was promising at best.
Was thinking the same thing. Interesting how people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to De Zerbi missing certain players this season, but not EtH.
@@user-zc2sz1os3j he actually did in Holland, you see the possession style that Ajax always had? He decided to go against the grain, he already had possession style players-players who could keep the ball, but he also implemented an efficient, direct, style of play to have Ajax scoring an abnormal amount of goals while holding possession.
Ten Hag is much much better than De Zerbi.The problem is United being completely mismanaged to the point that their stadium is physically falling apart.
@@sssf55dude, that's bullshit. Even with a team that can't fight for the premier league, you can't just lose an Europa league match against Sevilla who were almost relegated. There's no excuse at all.
One issue I've noticed creeping into football, it's certainly creeped into the fandom, is a compulsion to take on managers with the least baggage possible. Everyone wants someone fresh, it's why young managers like Slot & Amorim are hotter properties than they perhaps should be while experienced managers like Tuchel are being overlooked by many. It's becoming not dissimilar to boxing, regardless of your record if you've suffered a few KO's you're seen as damaged goods. The natural by product of this is no-one's being seen as a "safe" choice, which in turn is seeing owners playing the odds & not make rash changes as much as they used too.
There's also rather messed up (imo) evaluations of how managers are being perceived right now. As fans are becoming more & more demanding about style of football they want to see, managers with creative attacking ideas are being disproportionately valued over ones who seek ultimate balance - which is you know, the entire point of having a good manager! We're living in a football landscape where Tuchel is being viewed as "negative" & therefore "pasted it", someone like Conte too, while managers like Ange are being labelled "progressive". It's getting to the point where Bielsa might as well not be called the crazy one anymore, he's just what normal is now lol
I don't think you're fully right here, managers like klopp and especially Ange recently have been criticised for the amount of goals theyre conceding and their weaknesses in defense. The other reason creative attacking managers are seen as more favourable currently is because even midtable teams nowadays are structured well, have physically adept players, and keep a compact shape. It's going to be difficult to break them down unless you have a creative attacking manager.
A balanced manager is ideal, so I'm not sure where you've got the idea that balanced managers are being negatively looked upon. The reason tuchel is being looked down upon is because he didn't even get close to winning the bundesliga despite having by far the most talented and expensive squad in Germany. Even still, he gets a lot of praise for his management of knockout tournaments (beat arsenal and was 5 minutes away from beating real Madrid). I've also seen some sensible united fans saying that tuchel would be a good manager to bring in for ten hag.
Not throwing your players under the bus and complaining about the people who employ you all the time is what most clubs are looking for. Unless that attitude is complemented by a stream of trophies then clubs are not going to put up with the likes of Conte, Mourinho and Tuchel anymore.
@@Veaseifydoes tuchel carry that kind of reputation? That's not the impression i got from him in the german media anyway. Honest question, idk.
If you look at the tactical differences between Ten Hags first and second season at United, you can also see what I suspect is this same pressure to play creative and attacking football. United were more balanced in phases of play last season whilst still having a lot of success with transitions. This season Ten Hag has set them up for the vast majority of the games to have both a high 6 man press and a low block at the same time, trying to force more transitions. Consequently United was 1st in the league for high turnovers and possession won in the final third, but also second to Sheffield United for shots conceded as when teams beat the high press it’s a pretty easy break towards the United defence. This transitional style was also criticised by some at Ajax for the same flaws in the midfield but it’s how he likes to set up.
It’s not a coincidence that United set up differently in the FA cup final overloading the midfield and had success, however it begs the question what’s more important, results or style? United haven’t had any success this season with this transitional philosophy outside of moments and I think this stubbornness/one dimensionalism is what will get ETH replaced in a few days. You have to play to your teams strength, which he hasn’t especially considering the injuries.
The manager transfer market is weird because people treat all managers like trash as soon a team isn't doing well. A manager is ONE variable why a team is doing poorly, but usually take most of the blame. I refuse to believe there's only a handful of good coaches in the world, but listening to all the pundits and even fans would lead you to believe that.
I misheard Joe and thought he said Don McKenzie instead of Jon McKenzie. Thought maybe Mr McKenzie climbed up the ranks.
How are every media outlets ignoring Thiago motta guy literally took a struggling bologna to champions league in 2 seasons while playing beautiful attacking football
I don't think anyone is overlooking him. I think the problem is it's only huge clubs searching for managers and the on field management is only one aspect of being a manager. Managing at a super club involves so much that bologna doesn't.
Michel at Girona is another manager massively overachieving. Took them from the lower division in Spain to competing for the league a bit and then got them a champions league place.
Overachieving with a small team is not the same as managing a well established teams, there are lots of things to consider. Man Management, bigger staffs, team structure and the likes
The days of short term gain is over. And football will be good for it.the holistic approach is the way to keep the game alive
... and all of a sudden, Bayern are going for Kompany with united and Chelsea battling for the Ipswich manager. How weirder can it get
This makes me think, will we get the Daily Pod after every night during the Euros? That was peak World Cup viewing
10:24 classic Devine
For all the reasons you listed why De Zerbi is currently struggling is exactly why he shouldn't go to Utd. What's even more absurd is that the suggested alternative is to search for the next Ferguson when you conveniently forget to mention that Ferguson finished 11th(2times), 13th and 6th position in his first 5 years as a manager. Ten Hag at 8th place after suffering the worst injury crisis in Utd's modern history puts into perspective that he might not be the failure you're painting him to be.
I guessed that ideal club for De Dzerbi, but please, don't give me points, because POINTS ARE BAD...
Very very bad
@@samuelschonenberger still playing in my head from time to time
You should put Joe Devine in the thumbnails rather than EtH. That's who I'm really clicking for.
Wouldn't it be common sense to think if last season had 15 then this would naturally be lower as so many managers are new to their teams?
that wouldn’t explain the years of consistent manager turnover. also plenty of clubs have hired and fired a first year manager
In a world where mine and many others' attention spans have been destroyed by short form videos and short attention spans, I watched through this entire video without skipping a section or losing focus.
Bravo Joe, Jon and JJ, this was a fascinating discussion 👏
I heartily agree with John's reaction to Southgate as a United manager. DeZerbi is an interesting shout
When Seb popped up 🥹
Really happy Joe Devine is back once in a while. And I do like Jon a lot more now that the spotlight‘s not on him permanently.
who's here after the bizarre Poch out and McKenna in merry-go-round...watch Super Frank rock up to the Bridge in nine months’ time
Atlantis football smiling wherever he is after seeing De Zerbi mentioned to the United team
Watching this just after learning Poch is leaving
Love this new series, thanks guys!
People are bashing EtH because he is a Man United manager. The squad went through so many injuries. EtH played with 33 different defensive line combinations. Amrabat played as a left back 4 times this season. Even if Pep or Klopp were given the United job, will they finish at top 4? Hell no.
Why is it that most people are overlooking Inter's Inzaghi? 🤔🤔
But if you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all? Tifo podcaaaaaaasat
To summarise, because of PSR: nobody wants to be stuck with Allardyce for 5 years.
But some respect on Humungous Samuel’s name
Loved the production value and the best commentators there is
Meanwhile, Mourinho has burnt so many bridges in Europe, he fouled his own demand.
I don't think it is a question of bridges, but a question of style. Mourinho was greatly loved at Roma but his style is outdated and he failed to evolve.
'Enga!...'Enga!
Thanks guys. This video makes a lot of sense.
Roller coaster began. Pochetino is out
The reason is simple - Apart from Man City, every club is in a "process". Owners have got more intelligent and rational imo. It's like every manager has his ideas and if they stay long enough to implement it completely and buy players accordingly, it's surely will mean progress as opposed to sacking a manager to bring a new manager for "positive impact".
Again, people might disagree but if Man United and Chelsea sack ETH and Poch respectively, then the new managers might have a "+ve impact" for the next season but then it would again crash down due to no cohesion in plans and linearity. So, United & Chelsea might be/should think about actually sticking with one manager to "stabilise" because even Pep isn't winning PL with those squads right!?
It's no rocket science that the title challengers this season have the longest serving managers because it's much much better to have a squad aligned to a style and identity as opposed to a manager because managers change, the identity imprint remains. And, how to imprint that style (unless you aren't Barcelona or Ajax), by sticking to a manager. This is what the club boards have been thinking.
For eg. If ETH is sacked and Tuchel is brought in, he will have Van Gaal's, Ole's, Jose's and ETH's players at his disposal, and still he would demand his own. That smells a recipe for failure. So, it would be wise to stick to ETH, buy players suited to him and have the "overall squad" to be "aligned" to one style and then bring in a "similar style" of manager if he isn't leading to success. This applies heavily to Man United but also to other clubs. That's why Liverpool went for Arne Slot because he "aligns more" to want Klopp's imprint has been.
I mean one would like to take a constant road uphill to the highest peak with few bumps rather than keep going on small peaks before finding yourself on the highest. (if we assume peak is winning titles).
He had nine (9) of his players against Palace and got slapped. So the wise thing to do would be to give him more?
@@user-zc2sz1os3j Having 9 players of his and keep having those 9 players for a string of games is VERY DIFFERENT. It's not that hard to get all your players behind the ball and just hope to get chances on the counter, but fans wouldn't be okay with that as well. If you do hear his interview with Neville, he tried to explain that it wouldn't be wise to completely change your tactics acc to injured players because once they come back, it is difficult to get back to what you were doing earlier. Palace defeat was clearly on ETH being less pragmatic BUT ALSO on the players who absolutely gave up. My opinion is not that ETH is the perfect manager and he is of least fault, it's only that blaming everything on him isn't right. Sacking him is not the solution, unless fans want the short term success of UCL football for next season and then go downhill again in 25/26.
Just read the main comment thoroughly again. You might have a different opinion but there are some common sense and facts.
@@user-zc2sz1os3jnot even going to mention how this take is missing all sorts of context/nuance. But carry on, by all means.
You might be onto something with the ‘owners becoming more logical bit’…but it’s still kinda 50-50 for me.
I look at it this way - if you’re going to bring in a ten Hag based on his Ajax CV and way of playing there, and then not give him everything he needs to implement that style, then what was the point of hiring him in the first place?
Loving the T-shirt. My favourite stand up.
Love a bit of Jon on a Saturday morning
Yo, putting Eddie Howe in that group of implication that he should be fired is wild.
The biggest difference in sackings is that for the first time in 20+ years the same three that went up are likely to be the same three that go down. 40 points instead of safety this year it is more like 30.
You guys should make a long form, almost podcast like format of this show.
There were soo many the season prior, that almost everyone is relatively new in their job right now. So it doesn't make sense to have as many sackings as normal, when the season before was particularly high.
This idea ange could/should be sacked is comical. It's year 1 of a rebuild and they've been great for most of the year.
Coming back to this video to experience the calm before the storm.
My guess? FFP makes it harder for teams to just sack a manager and pay compensation. Might as well just wait out the season and sack em during the next transfer window
I've missed JJ bringin up Aberdeen whenever he can.
You need to put Simone Inzhagi to your list, as he and his team has basically crushed the opposition and are winning the Serie A 93/94 season with a huge margin.
With regards the United job, the timing of it makes it even more complicated. All these new people coming in at the top of the club, would it really be wise to rush into getting someone now who 6 months down the line, after they've all had time to become more embedded in the club, they realise isn't the right person for the direction they want to take the club and they end up in the same situation? Would it not be smarter to give EtH another season, who may benefit from the new set up btw, and that gives all the new people time to hash out a long term plan without feeling the need to rush into something that could be less than ideal.
If EtH had shown he had the ability to see the obvious shortcomings of this season's approach and try to alter it, instead of embarrass himself by sticking with something that does not work and just talk about how he almost smash and grabbed Arsenal earlier in the season I'd be more sympathetic to this approach. As it stands he's done more than enough to justify being sacked weeks ago.
@@jhf2121 I think you've missed my point. It has nothing to do with whether you think EtH has done a good job or not but whether it's a smart business decision to get rid of him now.
@@ShakerMatt And my point is that he's done such a bad job this year that it would be a bad business decision to give him another season
@@jhf2121how is is a bad business decision?
Are you serious? They finished Third last year won a cup and got to another final, Arteta finished outside the top four three years in a row but it's paying off now isn't it? Give him time @@jhf2121
No I haven’t noticed because, WE’VE GOT SUPER KIERAN MCKENNA, HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED!
Brilliant video. Now I want RDZ at MUN😂.
Enjoyed this but I think most sane Toon fans stuck with Howe and I don't think PSR played a big part in the owners doing the same. Injuries clearly played big part in our bad form plus there wasn't really anyone out there to replace him so there was no point letting go. Top manager who thankfully was given the support of the club/most fans.
I think the upcoming Euros will have an influence and there will movement after they are completed. Coaches will be fired from underperforming countries and successful countries may have their coaches suddenly sought after by clubs.
That graphic of the managers from the 2013-14 season vs what we got today is just ridiculous
As a Canadian, I love that Norm MacDonald shirt JJ
3:40 tbf the Gulf states are also golf states.
The uncle damian shoutout gave me life
The only man we need is Ron Manager, isn’t it? Marvelous.
One of the top coaches outperforming would be the experienced Jorge Jesus and Abel Ferreira. Look what they have done in Europe, South America, etc
Man Utd in 88/89 (Alex Ferguson’s third season):
Played 38; Won 13: Drew 12; Lost 13; GD +10; Points 51.
They finished ELEVENTH, below the likes of Millwall, QPR and Coventry, and level on points with Wimbledon.😂
It’s amazing, really, that Fergie wasn’t sacked. It’s really odd that they had such a good goal difference in 11th place though, that wouldn’t happen now. Ten Hag is actually doing better than that this season.
Clubs are obviously less inclined to throw their money away on sackings now, due to PSR. It’s no bad thing really.
Newcastle’s form dipped at the peak of our injury crisis this season but the club, the players and the fans were very much still behind Howe due to the mitigating factors (overachieving last year, injuries, fatigue). I don’t think he was ever in danger.
I would love it if you could discuss not only PL. I mean, Juventus, Milan, Lazio, and Napoli will have a new manager next season. That's not something that won't influence the manager market
I think something that wasn't mentioned is how Pep has taken over the prem. At the end of the day, when a top 6 team loses a few games now or start poorly, they are nearly completely out of the title race. So just like in Germany where Bayern are(were) the dominate team, so long as you're not missing out on Europe, there is no point in sacking your manager until the end of season assessment.
Then also just like in other teams where there are the same 1/2 teams dominating, to break that mould, you need a project where you take a bad season or two and now the prem top 6/8 are having to adopt this, so that they can try and break the city monopoly that they have on the league. The influence of what liverpool did with Klopp lead to this style in the prem
everyone forgot graham potter :)
I predict shorter manger contracts, rather than fire them, just let it lapse and put an option on the club's side for an extension like with players.
the norm shirt is adorable
The sport used to rely on intellectual brilliance much more back in the day, when now it requires a baseline endurance, and the lack of new quality managers nowadays correlates with that.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a club or two have a charismatic genius, who never played the sport before, shadow a good manager to learn how to be a manager, like Arteta 'bar the playing experience'. Could total see a lower table team take a punt on a well verse genius even though he never played, and if the fee is 1 million that is an easy profit.
Leicester didn’t sack Rodgers last year due to PSR and FFP in part. What a mess that ended up.
F for Pochettino
Best ending ever!😂😂😂
I think it would be best for a big club to come in for De Zerbi this summer really. That culture across the club through players and staff of people being picked off the top when good enough, and someone else coming through in the system, feels like it's reaching that point with him.
Would rather that than things going sour next season if he keeps underperforming (relative to how phenomenally he has otherwise performed).
Oops awkward saying this 2 days before he leaves by mutual agreement
The boys are back in town 😎
where can I find that King Eric photo behind Jon? Bitte, help
We are soo used to see Managers getting sacked now there is a lito bit of sanity and we r now loosing oir heads.. how weird in did.
Pep as an actor knows how to pick movies😂😂
8:23 Damn look at some of these managers. This is just a random thought, but it’s crazy to think that back then the majority of premier league fans argued this league was the strongest in the world. It was definitely La Liga back then I can’t believe some of us thought otherwise
Bring back the pod. My life depends on it
No discussion on Arne Slot ? Also, isn't Ruben Amorim and Arne Slot breaking duopolies ?
Dont really know what happened to this channel, but every single video seem so interesting that I don't even click on them anymore
Arne Slot like Alonso is performing way above in his league, that's why Liverpool snapped him up asap, by data a great fit also. Di zerbi is too predictable I think he wouldn't improve United they need a dif structure all together.
Perfect! Now record 20 minutes more, add a baby boy pinder reference, JJ Bull’s hatred for Scottish football, with tad bit more Goblins. You have prime Tifo football podcast.
It's taken football to 2024 to find a group of capable coaches and abandon the "do them lads" approach I grew up with. Who knows, maybe I was a world class Libero, but all we did was kick people and occasionally a ball!!
Because there is not transfer windows for managers. Would also be fun to see penalties being taken by managers once in a while.
Xabi Alonso & Carlo Ancelotti in the Super Cup
Bring back the 3 of them and the tifo football podcast pleaseeeee
Alas, if only they had waited a few more days till the Dr Zerbi and Poch developments, could've been interesting talking points
Is it just me or maybe there was a record high no. of managers brought in last season so that’s the reason there weren’t as many sackings thai season, cos most of them are new
May be it was obvious which 3 teams were going down and Chelsea were running out of Manager door signs.
It will be good if Bayern took ETH from Manchester's hands so they can go for RDZ, but that's not going to happen, or is it?
And no one wants Mourinho, and almost everyone wants Klopp, but he retired. So everyone then wanted Xabi Alonso, but he is staying with the "smaller team". I.e. not a lot of managers available for the traditional "big teams" currently.
RDZ's "articifical transition" gimmick falls flat when they concede first. All team gotta do commit to high octance 1st 10 mins to score first, and sit back after while their defender puts studs on the ball.
Which is why he needs a bigger club
PSR is the best thing that could've happened to glazers and other leeches. Now there is a reason for them to not invest. "We would love to but we cant bro"
This just sounds like TIFO with extra steps 🤔
Can u create another video of end of manager sacking or going by mutual consent , as there have been many changes in the managerial transfer market
The quality of tactics and players in the Premier League and the level of competition is unprecedented. The tactical dinosaurs of just a season ago are long gone, clubs are managing smarter and those that aren't have either been relegated or made major changes. There's hardly a club left that's running things the old-fashioned way, by the seat of their pants. If you don't strive to improve each season, you won't be even maintain your position.
"So, Jon, if you had to pick the best available manager at present for a Top 4 side and you were only able to say a name and add no commentary or qualifications, who would you pick?" "Well, I think it depends on the answer to these 50 questions and then you would have to consider 100 candidates and then it would depend on the interview process"
I am quite certain there are at least 4 or 5 coaches who can make Pep just another good coach if they coach a team team owned by a state which doesn't give a damn about 115 charges. BTW how far do you seriously think Pep can bring the current ManU?
How is Don Carlo not mentioned in that first bucket? Best manager in the world right now.
I called the Arteta Effect.
Arsenal had a lot patience with Arteta, and its now finally showing.
Other clubs are starting to notice it.
They know if they don't let those managers actually start a project, they will never catch to Man City, even if it means 3-4 season of bad results.
But perhaps Pochettino can pull an Arteta at Chelsea, or Ange and Spurs or even Eddie Howe are Newcastle.
Clubs are shifting priorities.
Before a manager started having problems with a top player (Mourinho vs Pogba) they would sack the manager.
But that is the dumb choice.
Sure it saves more money than having to pay wages for a player that the manager wont play and wants to sell.
But in the long term it allows the manager to start building the team to his vision.
I mean we all play FM, we know its impossible to succeed in a single season.
I like this trend because teams actually have to become unified and develop cogent plans and club cultures.
Can you make a vid abt Chelsea's new formation?
you've simply got to be putting JJ, Joe, and John on the thumbnail, nearly didn't click to vid because I didn't realise it was them
pretty strange i can find this Pod in Google Podcast but not spotify :(
Athletic please fix these.