Testing fancy ground Chinese cobalt drill bits
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2019
- I'm trying out these stepped ground M42 cobalt drill bits while finishing the boring bar holder I was making for my old Karger lathe. Are these rather expensive M42 HSS drill bits better then the M35 HSS drills I reviewed last year.
FYI: I am trying to make a little money for my youtube hobby through the Banggood affiliates program. Follow the link below, buy something you NEED and I'll earn some commission. Doesn’t cost you anything extra. You're basically taking money out of Banggood's pockets and putting it in mine :)
M35 drill bits: www.banggood.com/custlink/vmK...
M42 drill bits: www.banggood.com/custlink/KGm...
m3-m12 taps: www.banggood.com/custlink/Dm3...
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I know most of us who learn the drill pres on our own get in the habit of no clamping things down but you really need to get into that habit or at least putting a pin through the table to keep the work from spinning. I don't know how powerful your drill press is but I'm sure you'd rather not learn the hard way. Even a 1/4 hp drill press can really fuck you up if scenario is right.
...oh, and just in case you haven't learned this: If you must wear gloves around a drill press, thin latex gloves only. Anything else make for a great way to break your hand and/or arm in three or four places.
Bad habits right :) A while back I actually made a clamp for on the drill press. BUt I was too lazy to set it up. Also it makes lining up the drill bat a bit more difficult. I does help if you need the tap to go in at the same angle as the drill bit. ruclips.net/video/JNb3lOlwJpk/видео.html
My drill press is rather docile. It hasn't hurt a fly yet. And I'm pretty sure I can grab the chuck and make it stop. Might want to use a grove for that :)
@@Rolingmetal Alright, man. At least I've done my part. A drill press is pretty mellow as power tools go but it'll still get you if you don't respect it. With more dangerous tools, my friend gave me a tip that has been very useful for may years. The closer you hand gets to the cutting tool or the spinny thing, the more to tell yourself "it's gonna cut your fucking hand off! ...it's gonna cut you're fucking hand off!!!" sort of like a mantra, I guess. Works great! This has really improved my respect and safety around power tools. ;-)
Thank you for showing. As far as drill bits are concerned I always look out for old cheap used ones in old boxes underneath the tables at flea markets and yard sales. You can usually by them for next to nothing. After grinding, they work as good as new ones. Got all my MK drill bits that way, very cheap.
Then here is a tip for you :) ruclips.net/video/mUrc5V_mdJc/видео.html
Interesting tips, never seen that stepped tip before. Love the cobalt bits. Been getting some m35 bits off amazon that I use with most of my steel work
I expect the m35 from amazon are probably the same as the ones from Banggood. They are pretty good I think. Altough I have broken a smaller one on the drill press. But that's common for me :)
Greetings from UK. A tip I was taught is to run a drywall plug through a tapped hole to clear swarf. Doesn't always work, but most times it will do the trick. It is worth buying one of those cheap cross vices for the drill press. Accurate enough for most work, and far safer on the hands. It is a pleasure to watch you learn, and I hope you keep up the hobby. As you are finding out, the tooling costs more than the machines, so most of us hobbyists make out own, with more or less success. I would recommend "The Amateurs Lathe" by L H Sparey, which is where I started nearly 50 years ago, and I still refer to it. There are some useful plans for lathe tooling, and lots of good advice. You can get it from Amazon. Finally, thanks for the videos, I know it takes time and skill to make them.
I say use cutting oil friend .. It saves taps and drills !!
I use regular motor oils since I ran out of cutting oil. I don;t notice a difference to be honest.
Safety tip from experience: Always clamp your workpiece down securely! You'll be sorry if you don't!
I use a small round wire brush to clean them after tapping. Works. I also have a half a box full of broken smaller taps. I tap grade 8 bolts length wise and break a lot of taps.
I use a toothbrush to clean the swarf out of the taps. That was my first ever broken tap, still bums me out.
Cobalt drills main ambition in life is to chip until you get rid of their poxy grinds & regrind them with a standard grind & that goes for the better quality ones also ! Cheers .
Maybe that special grind causes the tip to brake more easily. I sure did not notice that they started easier. The way I see it, it only extends the cutting edge and they will need more power to drill.
@@Rolingmetal They seem to have a much wider web so you have to back grind it to thin it out , but they also bend easy !
Hi RM. I have ran into metal that even cobalt had a lot of trouble with. Not sure what type of grind that is,though. Liked,Shared,added to Playlists.
All my best.
Cool work 👍
It seems the grinding fairy is with you, your hand grinding worked just fine.
Fun video. Thanks for presenting another fine review. Lucky that helicopter did bit you.
Hello , I'm asking as you said is this video what's your point of view now about buying the M35 vs M42 drill bits that you've been using for a year and a half so far?
What's your end up thought ?
Thanks
rM,
Man, you gotta get yourself a decent drill press vice to hold your work! You produce the helicopter affect far too often. Won’t Banggood provide you one for review?
Anyway, good review on the “fairy grind” drill bits. I’m never really been impressed with fancy grinds. I like cobalt bits for drilling extra hard stuff but mostly use regular ground, nice quality hss. That fancy grind has a very limited life and will soon be converted to standard grind so why pay the exorbitant price for wedding cake drill bit tips?
Good video. Thanks
The step grind is supposed to reduce tool pressure. They did it wrong. Uneven cutting produced by poor grinds will eventually break off the the bit in your workpiece. Reground, they’ll be ok enough.
I did not notice that they started easier. They only extended the cutting edge requiring more power. I think a good re-grind will work better
Good Video Thanks!
Cheap tools most of time means low quality, but there are exceptions sometimes. Also, tools get damaged because people do not use them properly. Noticed that you drill the hole all the way in, which is not right. You should leave some space on the drill bit thread end for the waste to come out.
yea that drill good better than the hss bits and is more precisier
You were talking about how loose the screw was in the thread, check the drill bits with a mic, it's not uncommon for them to be out by 0.2mm
the size of the drill bit has almost no effect on the sloppiness of the thread. I actually made a video about that a while back.
I had to tap a coupla #3 - 48 sae one time. That's the smallest I've ever done.
The only difference between taper, intermediate and plug taps is at the front end.
The intermediate and plug are meant to make a full thread at the bottom of a blind hole.
I’d say the taps you have are poorly made. You should try some proper (expensive) taps and see the difference
I understand your connection with BangGood
A nice set off HSS drills will surprise you as well. I have a 10 year old set of drills that still work great (weekend use)
When testing drills you should also check the size you are getting and the surface finish. All are important.
You always have to clear your chips when drilling, you can snap off drills like that. I think you may have come close to snapping yours. :)
Good video, I won’t buy BangGood unless I get desperate:)
I like the taper taps they are easier to line up straight. But hose spiral taps are also interesting as the eject the chip from the hole. The biggest drill I snapped so far is 8 mm but that was using a electric dill.
Correct, you are supposed to start with the taper. That is all you need if you can wind it all the way through the hole.
The spiral taps are not in the same set. They are often called machine taps and you can push them through the hole under power and the chips don't block up ahead of the tap.
I don't recall spiral taps being available in plug and taper but I'm stretching my memory now.
I think if we used a spiral tap in a blind hole we came back by hand later and cleared the bottom with a plug tap.
You can also get "Gun Taps" nothing to do with actual guns. Not sure how they get the name. There is an angel on the cutting edge to push the chips ahead of the tap also good in through holes.
In any case when you are tapping blind holes it's best to blast the chips out with compressed air or what ever you have and then go back in. Hitting the bottom is the best way to break a tap. But there are many others :)
Those threads in the larger holes aren't looking too hot at 15:26. Was it just a bad camera angle?
light, shadows and camera angles can play trick with your eyes.
But I agree, those don't look good. I wouldn't be surprised is one of the cutting edges has broken off.
There are different kinds of stainless steel, some can still be magnetic.
I also have no idea what the stepped ground tip should accomplish
Klaufmann seems like all it accomplished was a quickly chowdered drill bit.
At 24:10 looking at the end of the drill bits you can see on the small one just how far off center the ground the bit. Looking at the leading edge on the side that dulled and the angle it was ground on was doing all the work, if you look at the other side you can see the angle is way off and it wasn't ground to center the web. I don't know if it's because they made the web off center or just the final grinding. It could be the relief cut (back side of cutter) isn't ground properly also.
Regardless of what is causing the issue thank you for taking the time to make this video.
Many different stainless alloys with different characteristics. 304 is generally easier to work with. Some stainless is actually magnetic so that is not a true indicator. Some can be hardened and are tough as all get out, while others work harden which can make drilling problematic.
The 5mm drill that you ground by hand worked better than factory grind. You could get a job in China as the grinding fairy. Joking aside it shows that a good grind is the most important thing
The fairly grinding fairy. Could be a new career :)
A fair review I would say. I don't care for the spiral taps myself, the webbings are too thin, that's why they break so easy As for your high dollar drill bits, I too have used the DeWalt "Pilot Point" drill bits and I really liked them, until they started getting dull. There is no easy way to sharpen them with that profile so they get ground down and sharpened like a regular bit. I also bought the cheaper set of HSS drill bits from BG last year.
I would try to brag and say at least they came in a metal index but when I got the outer wrapping off I could see a broken brass rivet sitting right on top of the box, underneath the plastic bag, while it was still closed. The rivet was broken for the pivot on the smaller bit holder and I had to drill it and put a real rivet in it. The bits seem to work OK for as much as I use them, being an American I try to avoid that Metric crap as much as possible but every dang thing is metric these days I'd say you got a decent set of bits out of the deal and the price was certainly right.
Too bad they came in a disposable plastic case. Damn thing won't even make a decent ash tray.
Metric crap!? The whole world uses metric and other SI units. Our imperial units are incompatible with everything not made 8n the US (basically everything) and it sucks! If we aren't manufacturing anymore, then we should switch to the international community.
Good video, I've never had luck with cheaply made bits. Drill hog bits are good with warranty. Also sold on fleepay.
MetalWorks Machine Shop Drill hog is a solid company!
slow down with the speed and clear the chip more often
I gave them the same beating as I usually do with my drills. For comparison sake :)
So are they still good after 2 years
Yeah, who needs hold downs. Let it spin I say! Can't imagine why the bit failed? You definitely do things differently thats for sure.
Suggest to use oil or cutting grease drilling and tapping, even high dollar taps go bad and broken if use dry.
Cheap and good oil is atf for drill and tap/die.
Now that you have new drill bits, you should make a joke video about what to do with your old ones. Everyone will love it!!!!.........oh wait....
Yeah good idea, only a handful of people will notice :)
Never, never try to drill a hole without having your work in a hand vice and use bloody coolant! These harder drills are meant for hard materials, they do not work as well in mild steel. I never use a pilot hole for a 5 mm, unless I'm tapping something important. Then I go 4.5 and finish with a quality 5 mm drill bit. Those spiral taps can be used to power tap, I made a fixture plate 22 mm thick of fairly hard steel scrap to ism as you call it lol and I put a total of 42 tapped holes of 8 and 6 mm all power tapped on my little mill attachment of my Warco WMT300:lathe( 1.5 hp 3 phase will VFD) worked a treat and didn't break anything and yes you CAN reverse the tap in and out to break the chip. On a small tap below 6mm it is imperative to reverse the tap regularly to break and remove the chips as they are notorious for clogging the flutes even on the spiral ones, but the straight flutes are a nightmare the smaller you go. Watch Joe Piesczinski doing small hole talpping and Ades workshop.
A little spray of WD40 works wonders for drills and especially tapping.
Since I ran out of cutting oil I use regular motor oil on my taps. Not much of a difference.
Those steps are good for wood and plastic, otherwise unless you have a tool n cutter grinder they are gone after a bit of use.
you don't need HSS for wood or plastic. But a regrind might be a goo idea. The way I see it,t hese don't start easier and only have a longer cutting edge that requires more power.
quarter inch drill is the pilot drill most of the time
I think that's pretty big. But smaller drill can be to short.
Those holes look way oversized, there is not a fully formed thread in them. The tops of the threads are flat, so you are only getting about a 10% thread instead of 70%.
Having looked at the footage I agree. Although the hole size has little effect on the fit of the thread. But us does matter for strength
Both drill bit sets are sold out.
I have had good luck with the Chinese taps but those tap wrenches, not so much
where are you from?
the Netherlands
So, take aways from this for me -
- Out-of-the-factory grinds are "doubtful" at best (goes for pretty much all cheap drills, and quite a few expensive ones)
- Chinese "M42" vs "M35" may well just be marketing wank applied to the exact same material. Even if the materials /are/ different, the home machinist is unlikely to need M42 anyway, it's good for production use.
- The proper tapping sizes aren't supplied
- You need a drill press vice
- You also need a tap follower and tapping lubricants
There are many companies that can supply high quality drill bits, taps etc. I prefer Fastenal www.fastenal.com. I highly doubt at this point I would trust anything from Bangood. Your country probably isn't in a "trade war" with China but I have seen prices for CE products increasing. Better find a company in India that appreciates your smooth voice and impeccable salesmanship skills. (Or is that salespersonship skills? )
In this P.C. correct world we are living in, it's probably salesperson-ship.
Although big boobs and a nice smile probably works even better :)
No, that’s being Dutch. They can sell a fridge to a penguin.
Maybe they wouldn't break if you stopped pushing so hard and allowed the flutes to clear now and then instead of packing them solid in the hole and then re-cutting them.
Those tips look like they are designed to drill sheet metal.
It does look like one of those stepped cone drills.
for hole making of circular form using special fairy grinding of method with precision
RPM are to low and feed to high. 10 mm drill in stainless and no flood colant speed is normal 700-800 RPM
This is amateur hour not some high end production environment where time is money :)
But iIm sure there are channels for that too.
Always pilot drill your holes . Do not abuse your tools .
Please let me send you a drill press clamp.
Yeah I was a bit clumsy there> and to laze to setup that clamp I made :)
It just makes it harder to like up the drill bit.
you need to watch tutorial first a lot of them
You don't need to break chips with a drill.
photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNL82veL4Yg0GErLKfjPrFYuNVJwRUHi6-tKB8BL8s7cHHZTAgfHtmKnq6qsibwTw/photo/AF1QipOwezxUy52lYlTS60LTkqcl1Y5WCm952U_Nj8zI?key=VS1Kc1RwS3VHaHRMN2F3TlBBSjZ1UU9hWjlaYjhn
NOT all stainless steel is Non Magnetic.
I know, it's annoying :)
That is a weird cut on the end of the drill
I don't get is either. The way I see it, it only makes the cutting edge longer and therefore it would require more power. I did not notice that they were easier to start.
You got that right dose not make sense !!! great for drilling coconuts!!!!
I see a lot of commentary on clamping the work piece, which is good practice.
Too bad the Chinese cheap presses all seem to have that cast steel or cast iron tables with no method of using a quick clamp, vise grips or other clamp. You are generally resigned to bolting down a vise In the crappy slots which rarely allow for the fine tuning or capacity to do much of anything accurately.
Except for the fact that it is it not worth spending the time or money to correct, a 13 or 19 mm(1/2” or 3/4”)plate would serve all of us better. Just a good flat bottom without casting draft would be a tremendous improvement. Probably you, like myself and a lot of others just don’t want to take the time to improve their substandard, underpowered cheap drill press with a modification that would take as much or more money than the piece of junk is worth. Just hate spending good money after bad.
probably stop doing reviews on shit and buy decent tooling as the quality of your job is down to quality tooling and doing things properly
I think Bangood have lost the plot. Their asking prices are now not that far off top European makes and , if you think tapping M4 is difficult then wait till you try and tap an 8 BA thread in steel.
I think the 1-10 set is fairly priced but that 1-13 set was even more expensive when I first noticed these special ground drill bit on their web site. I think it was like 65 dollar or maybe even euro.
@@Rolingmetal The 1~10mm set is a showing at £47.00 on the site for me. Maybe it is the M42 tool steel but it seems that we can no longer call these ' Cheap Chinese ' but rather ' Chinese '.
@@lensman5762 Wow, those must be special Brexit prices! In Euro they are 21.53. Apparently coming from 28.71 with 42% off. I don't know but that sure is not 42% off. Someone needs a new abacus.
@@Rolingmetal No, I have noticed this price increase on Bangood recently . Maybe they have a special pricing for me. I used to be able to bypass their commission linked prices but recently it is impossible to do this. I guess their algorythm can detect my IP and adjust the prices.
@@lensman5762 Maybe the UK catches some flak from Trumps trade war with China.
Why not leave the key in the chuck . Complete your failure .
So far I have never forgotten the key. But I do forget to tighten up the drill bit lots of times
Don’t hate fairies. Lol
you are breaking your tools because you are drilling and tabbing without cutting oil
You sure seem to push things to far and not follow normal practices.
Us normal people clear chips out prior to inserting bolts.