Failed boring bar modification
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 окт 2019
- In this video I start to modify a defective boring bar from Banggood. I'm planning to make a hss boring bar using a factory made insert tool. But it turns out that's harder then expected. Literally harder.
Want to support my video efforts, buy some shit through my Ebay or Banggood affiliated links below.
stuff I used in this video.
CCMT inserts: ebay.to/2MHIqz3
M35 drill bits: www.banggood.com/custlink/vmK...
M42 drill bits: www.banggood.com/custlink/KGm...
Some other links:
Rolingmetal community tab: bit.ly/2TkLrH0
Rolingmetal photo album: bit.ly/2KQJIdu
Update: I did manage to fix the thread on the first set screw. So the project is back on track. See picture: bit.ly/2qatQbU
I think the boring bar was fine. The mounting surfaces of the inserts you have are higher than the cutting edge. This is way the unused edges are not damaged by clamping down on them. You can also see that in the picture you were showing on the topside. So the gap between the insert and the insert pocket is necessary.
It's actually the other way around, the surface around the mounting hole is thinner that when measuring cutting edge to cutting edge. And my right hand tool uses a shim and I don't see an air gap on that one. The boring bar has no room for a shim.
You're right, negative geometry inserts have a face to sit on in the tool which sticks out above the cutting edges. Rollingmetal, I'd suggest you try to measure the inserts again. once flat accross the hole with calipers and once just across two cutting tips at the end of the insert.
I watched this video last night, and thinking back now, I had fun watching it.Thanks!
I enjoy your videos, and the way you work around your problems shows you are doing them live and some for the first time.
I like to shoe the real thing wards and everything.Good for the feedback and a good way to learn :)
@@Rolingmetal Those "taps" you're using are in fact thread chasers (for threaded hole cleaning). At least in this country.
True taps have flat backs with a hole...
Thanks for excellent video work and patience on a tough job.
Thanks, it was certainly tougher then expected.
I was going to buy an anglepoise lamp on ebay but it would be less expensive to buy a lathe that comes with a lamp fitted, Roling metals lighting here is second to none, i'm glad i found this channel!
I looked up anglepoise lamp. Some of them cost real money. Ridiculous
If you can't tap the M6 hole completely to the bore intersection, you can always use a dog-point set screw of some fashion. There's plenty of thread depth available to hold the load.
That a great tip, thanks. I considered turning down a longer set screw but then a started working the set screw back and forth and before I knew it enough material wore away so now it fits :)
awesome
I don't believe anything scares you! cause your the best hands down!
it definitely startled me a bit :)
@@Rolingmetal Dude don't let it bother you, chuck norse would've been cleaning his underpants too.
I knew you could do it. On the picture it looks real good.
At 13:29 ..."This cobalt bit has never been used --clink !---It has been dropped on the concrete floor once, though" ROFLMAO !!! Perfect deadpan delivery !!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hi RM. That didn't look fun,but you got it done. I had the same thing happen today and found I was drilling to fast,causing the metal to harden on me. I am making parts for an old backhoe. Has always I liked,Shared,Added to playlists. All my best
It's frustrating when after an hour or so you still haven't accomplished anything. But is is typical for this amateur :)
I feel this on a personal level. I've been amazed by the variety of difficulty when using different taps. Cheap ones suck, yes, but even some of the more expensive ones are still garbage. Good ones are so easy, you can't believe how you suffered with the junk ones.
@TakeDeadAim I was saying that a good brand name tap will make life easy. I was just pointing out that some *expensive* taps are still junk. We just have a failure to communicate ;)
Someone suggested cobalt taps from phantom. I have some phanton drill bit and the are pretty good. Any thought about cobalt taps? I found those high cobalt drill bits from Banggood a bit brittle. But they worked fine on the hard metal boring bar.
@@Rolingmetal Cobalt should be better than hss, but of course it still has to be good quality. Even a carbide tap can be infuriating to use if it doesn't cut well due to poor geometry or other manufacturing flaws. As you noticed with the blue nano inserts, just looking cool and being more expensive doesn't make them better for your application. That's part of what makes hobby machining difficult. We want a tool that'll do everything at an affordable price. Looking forward to your future videos!
Jeez, you sure keep us on the edge of our seat :)
A little tip: taps come in taper, second and plug (bottoming). If you start with the taper, no need to use a machine fixture. Just free hand it, and progress to second, and then plug. Don't worry, it will tap straight if you're reasonably careful. And clamp that tap wrench tight around the square end. If you don't, it's difficult to feel when the tap is about to give. Also, I think proper cutting oil would have made a difference also. And buying quality taps. That boring bar, at that depth, should NOT be harder than a tap.
I sympathize with u on that tool I've done the same thing but I put it in the heat first let it cool will cut like butter then of u want to harden just reverse the process keep up the good work .
I don't have a proper torch for that. Nor do I have the experience.
@@Rolingmetal you maybe have a bbq or just make a good fire would work I put mine in my burning barrel with a wood fire work great
Wonder why I spent 40 minutes watching your video 🤔
Well I did and I can say that I could almost physically feel the sensation when tapping those threads.
Like when I was a boy running around, falling and getting skin scrapes on the tarmac, I can still get a physical sensation of that when I watch people falling on concrete or tarmac🤕
I might conclude that it's better to earn a little experience from your work 👍🏻, than to break my own taps or ruin my own expensive and rare Scraptonium©️Rolling Metal.
So please continue the production of your informing, teaching, entertaining and amusing videos.
I think I actually learned a thing or 2 from this video :)
In a pinch you can grind the tapered tip off a good (as in sharp) 1st tap to make a bottoming tap.
I did consider that after all those teeth broke of the bottoming tap
The 7.5 mm drill bit problems was because of too mush speed, you can get away with it for a few sec when the drill is new but you burn it up fast, brass and alu would be fine but not steel and sertenly not tool steel. On that tool steel i would go 600 on the senterdrill, 400 on the 4mm and 200 on the 7.5, it it still buns up sharpen and cut speed in half Love you vids :)
The lathe was running about 650 rpm and I always thought that was too slow for a 7.5 mm drill bit so I never considered slowing it down. I know better now, just hoping I remember it for the next time I'm dealing with harder materials
Was that motor oil you were using or cutting oil? I would have used more.
Probably 15w40 semi synthetic
@@Rolingmetal motor oil is absolutly the worst possible thing to use as cutting oil. basically, it is TOO GOOD at being an oil and does not allow cutting. cutting oil has the property that it is oil up to a certain pressure (pressure between tool and workpiece) , which is much lower than motoroil, and then it breaks down and allows cutting. In future, if you run out of cutting oil, rather use chicken fat collected from the roasting pan. That is all I ever use.
OSG Tap, Spiral Flute, Inch, 1/4"-20, Modified Bottoming, Granger part # 2PJR2 for example. One and done! They are not cheap but boy do they last and properly used they work great in just about anything.
Is Rolingmetal still around? i haven't seen any new videos in a couple of years.
6 sided inserts rest on the chip breaker. I have huge money boring bars with replaceable carbide seats and they still show that gap. If it rested on the cutting edge they'd be junk...
So your new bar, if they send it will also have that gap.
I assume the should rest on the flat surface around the mounting hole.
That surface is thinner than the cutting edge. I don't see an air gap on my right had tool bit that uses a shim. The boring bar doesn't have a shim. We' ll see how the replacement look like if it ever shows up. status is still on processing after 6 weeks.
You can buy diamond diamond cup wheel for cheap money that will work better than that face mill for hard stuff on shallow cuts.
You should have said something sooner, I actually have one of those somewhere.
Drill that at half the speed it is squeeling something bad. Also a bad drill grind can do that too.
What lighting you using? Bruce Springsteen likes dancing in the dark and at the minute i may as well be machining in the dark.
I sure could use better lighting, even-tough I did install some extra fluorescence lights. Or maybe a more light sensitive camera.
@@Rolingmetal Oh! i think your lighting is great but mine is like turning by candle light.
Bravo maestro .keep klap
That was a nail biter all the way. Good show.
Thanks John. I even got both of the set screw threads working now :)
Got there in the end, they can be quit tough though I’ve cut them up before so I know what you mean.
Al.
that certainly was a bigger challenge than expected.
I dont think motor oil is a good choice for tapping, especially on something hard. I wonder if gear lube might have worked better since you were out of cutting oil. I was nervous the whole time😬
I never noticed a difference between regular oil and the cutting oil I used for years. you might be right about gear oils especial hyoid gear oils
For the taping problem use a Hss-Co tap from the company Phantom there not expensive and work as a charm on hard materials
I found some Phantom drills at the local flea market. They are my bet drill bits :)
Oh! you did!
oh! you did!
Nasty chinesium steel! Sounds like work hardening. Slower speed and increase feed.
Use a cobalt bit for that, no problem.
I got a new found respect for cobalt drill bit:)
Bet that bar was not tempered properly after hardening. Likely they only had it in the oven for a hour or so and then rapidly cooled the batch, so as to cut time in the shop. Outside softened slightly, but the core was still getting hot and relaxing. normally the other way round with hardening, you want a soft and chewy centre and a tough sking, but here it is the opposite.
Might be worth totally softening the bar next time and rehardening it before the final sizing, though your tapped holes will be slightly smaller from growth of oxides.
I agree they might have cut some corners to keep the price low.
You should only tighten on the logo of the chuck. The others can throw off concentricity
Hardened metal heat it with blow torch.it will then drill or machine easy.works for me :-)
I don't have a torch that would get it hot enough.
You will find if you use oil as a coolant and you start to drill the metal it gets so hot and the oil starts to harden the steel.
First time I experienced that :)
Slow down and use cutting oil/coolant....... Also, when I have trouble like that, I check the drill grind. Make sure that it's sharp and fresh, and at afon angle suitable for the material. The angles matter...... If you're drilling into aluminum or plastic, for instance, drop the angle down and decrease clearance. Lessens grabbing. In hard material, increase the relief angle but maintain a wider cutting edge to give it durability. Don't use a razor on a tree, and don't use a chainsaw on your beard.....
Slowing down would have been the wise thing to do, but unfortunately i never though of it for some reason. So stupid of me
Why didn't you just anneal it at the first sign of trouble??
Looks like a hard insert in the end of bar.
You need to anneal that boring bar before doing that kind of work on it. Will make the job a whole lot easier. Once you are done with the machining, just harden it again.
The other comments have said it all.
The Hare and the Tortoise, sorry that story may not be in your language.
But the metal did seem to have hard spots, in addition to those work hardened.
The hardness was definitely inconsistent
Take the speed down a bit and bingo! i had a dog called that.
B. I. N-G-O, B. I. N-G-O, B. I. N-G-O, and Bingo was his name.
Why do you use so high RPM when drilling? No wonder it work hardens. That's why the smaller drill bit worked, it has less surface speed than the bigger one. For 7,5mm hole in this type of steel, I wouldn't use more than 300 rpm. Especially since you don't use any coolant.
Look at this Pierre's video, where he tests some drill bits on hardened steel.
ruclips.net/video/rd1eyxrlIhw/видео.html
This is about the maximum rpm I would use without flood coolant.
I have no good answer to that. I was thinking the lathe was running rather slow for such a small drill bit
Somebody send this guy some carbide end mills and maybe a drill or 2 also. You might have to heat that sucker up to soften it a bit. And still yet, you might not get a tap through it anyway.
And maybe take it to the high end of the tap drill tolerance. (Even a little out of tolerance, just don't tell anyone and keep it away from Inspector 12!)
Bigger drill bits for for easy tapping and cobalt taps are now on my wish list :)
@@Rolingmetal There you go Brother. I enjoy your channel, this is a dying trade, nobody wants to go into it any more. But in 38 years, since 1981 (damn I'm old!), the only time I've been unemployed was when I CHOSE to be. It's a good gig
Better to use a grinding wheel in the chuck.
someone else suggested that. A bit messy but not a bad idea.
read up on SPEEDS AND FEEDS and don't be afraid to tighten your chuck, it wont break lol
I can just about break anything. One of my better skills :)
Use Molly blue tap & die oil what your useing won't take the tool pressure and use sprial gun taps 😁.
I watched 9 times to learn the techniques, the same number of thumbs down, Why?
no sweat, there will be some more down votes. Doesn't bother me one bit :)
You should consider using a larger tap drill for tough steels, 75% thread engagement should be OK in your case.
Lash out and buy a set of drills in 0.1mm steps these can get you out of trouble in a lot of jobs.
That's a good idea. I will buy a set of slightly bigger cobalt drill bits for making "weaker threads" in hard metal
You ok man?
doing better :)
I would have annealed that end It seems to work harden.
If you anneal it you also need to harden it again. That second flat spot war certainly work hardened
That squealing was a dead giveaway. I've found that even the cheesiest Chinese inserted borinh bars are usually made from some pretty decently tough alloys.
For the love of God use more lubricants it is cheap compared to tooling, helps to keep things cooler too.
I will use a bit motor oil, got plenty of that stuff. Food coolant won't be on option with a leaky wooden workbench. But the wood can probably soak up lots of oil :)
Why didn't you anneal the bar before starting any work on it? It would have made the whole job easier and faster.
would have, should have :) Short answer, or excuse, I'm a total amateur, trying tO learn by doing, instead of watching perfectly executed Abom videos all day:)
@@Rolingmetal Don't worry about it, I'm not slagging you. I'm a total amateur too, self taught machining on my mini lathe, after many years as a wood turner. I appreciate your videos because they so show that not everything goes according to plan in the workshop. Much more so when one does not have unlimited tooling. The main thing is you battle through until you have what you set out to accomplish
Maybe anneal that bar before trying to tap the hole.
And then I would also have to re-harden it and I don't have the tools for that.
Here is a good source for lots of DIY and restoration stuff-
gears, shafts, bearings chain drives etc.
www.cnctoolexpress.com/53-diy-parts-and-supplies
The drill was acting up because it was intersecting a angled hole.
No it wasn't!
@@robcrawford9657 uh what
@@Steve_Just_Steve uh no!
@@robcrawford9657 @26:00 uh... yeah
@@Steve_Just_Steve Steve once the drill cuts the depth of it's own taper it's not drilling at an angle anymore. i'm sorry, i don't like casting pearls before swine. if you apologize everything can go back to how it was.
Cheep steel!
you Might have been better Anieling It , Tough stuff 01! just saying
Then you also need to harden it again and I don't really have the tools for that.
That 5mm "Bottoming" tap is crap! It should not have a point on the end but be flat, AND the treads should go right down to the end, thus allowing you to "Bottom" out a blind hole. The same goes for your 6 mm set up, if you had drilled out through the tool bit hole into the meat of the boring bar then you could have let the second tap go right through without any restriction and tap the hole fully. That would have saved you some time and problems. "There's more than one way to skin a cat" as we say in England lol
I like that idea to just drill though the hole for the toolbit to make some room for the tabs. If I had done that I might not need the crappy bottoming tap :)
Holy smokes, you are obviously not in any way a machinist, you can't sharpen a drill, it seems your lathe only has ONE speed! Stan, did you cringe like I did all throughout this process?
I kept expecting the whole setup to explode.
Setup worked better then expected for a piece of alluminium
Airgap my ass , measure the insert thickness at the tip and more towards the center , you'll find out the contact surface on the insert is thicker than the cutting edge .
The tip (cutting edge) is thicker then the bearing surface around the mounting hole. The boring bar has no shim but my right hand tools bit does and it has no air gap
@@Rolingmetal well , it'still just a video , so we can't really see it that well , but all the double sided inserts i've used had airgap around the insert periphery (shim or no shim same deal) . But if was cutting improperly , and now it's ok that's all that matters . And a bit of advice . Stop buying the el cheapo chinese tools , there are plenty id and od tools used or new/other at 50-25% of market price
Hubieras agarrado un pedazo de barra redonda de 3/4 y no hechar a perder esa el inserto de trigo corta muy vien pero bueno cada quien saludos..
Hi buddy what is your Job in real live? Metallwork can't be. You need a machine tab. This is shorter and you need only one. And the important thing is. You can cut hard material only with harder material . Steel with hss.
And boring bars with tungsten carbide. The tab is the wrong choice. Better is you use toolsteel
Machined and hardened the Steel.
You should have annealed it, I know how hard that metal is. Bangood taps are rubbish cheers.
Almost as bad as their collets. ruclips.net/video/1-iUYvI4qyQ/видео.html
Motor oil is designed to stop wear hence, it will not help you cut. Its scary watching you work.
I never noticed any difference between the culling fluid I used for years and regular oil
What a morron! :)
I think you mean moron :)
Нужно меньше обороты
salut
ton oil moteur est pas bonne pour taper
That was a painful watch
My god slow down from you are generating so much heat you are hardening the steel .hard =slow dude.you must be used to aluminium.
I mostly use scraptonium of the ferrous type
And this is how you destroy a perfectly fine boring bar ... all have that gap , the insert is thicker in the middle, and the pointy bit smaller for the chip breaker...
it is funny to see (not just in this video) that you don't know shit about what you doing... and other people that don't know shit are supporting you...
I do know that the right hand tool that uses the same insert has no airgap.
Rolingmetal have you tried with the same inserts ? All the negative inset tooling have the gap on the chip bracker . How big the gap is , depends on the type of insert and chip bracker. Just put a caliper on the insert and you will see that is bigger in the middle then the pointy bit...
You seems to make all the rookie mistakes on the books...
Wrong speeds for the hardened steels (way too fast), not rigid setups (sticking end mill too far out unnecessarily)...
If it doesn’t cut and just rubbing you actually generate heat and harden even more the part...
Tapping requires to back up in order to brake the chips. On hard material back more often all the way out and clean the hole...
Hope you learn your lessons...
I like to think I actually learned a bit from this video :)
You need more than luck!! Too many rpm .. stick to making videos,, you are not a machinest,,,when filing the high pitch sound tells it tough to hard ,,,which means slowing down the surface feet per minute ,,,reamer ,much to fast,,,,,,good luck,,,you need it
It honestly never thought about slowing things down, Unbelievable stupid of me.
Warranty claim with Banggood? Their stuff is nearly free.
I heard bad stories about the Banggood customer service. I do reviews for them from time to time, so I though it would be a good idea to experience this myself :) So far the re-order has not been shipped, it is still being processed while it should be in stock according to the website. They did not reply to my latest email about this situation. We will see where this ends