The Rise & Fall Of The Boeing 767
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- Опубликовано: 29 дек 2021
- The 767 has been an important aircraft for Boeing. Starting out in the early 1980s, it opened up transatlantic routes to twin-engines - a major development at the time. While it is not the best-selling widebody (the 777 takes that), it has had a long life, moving through several variants. More efficient aircraft have now taken over, but it remains in production and popular for cargo and logistics use.
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There's no better config in economy on a 2 aisle aircraft than the 2-3-2 on the 767. I'm glad I still have the chance to fly the 767 as I'm based out of Detroit which is a Delta Hub.
Yup! People dislike 767 never really flew them. Delta kept the interior quite modern even before the latest retrofit, and its a nice plane. It's my favorite widebody.
2-4-2 on the A330 is also really good. Better yet, ANA offers 2-4-3 on some of it’s 77Ws, best of all worlds.
That was a sweet aircraft. They should create a smaller version with more economical engines to go after that XLR Airbus
Somehow, I’ve never flown on one. See them at the gates, but that’s as close as I get
Why is it better than 2-4-2? You still have maximum 1 seat access to the aisle.
This is still one of my favorite planes ever. It revolutionized USA to Europe flights as commonplace with efficient and reliable service. Delta grew its entire European and Indian service on this plane, I think at one point they had over 100 767-300ER's which is insane. Also been a great plane and said to see it starting to fade out but the 787 is a great replacement!
Delta grew the entire world network with it. I have spent a lot of time in these 767 flying to from Asia. They are my absolute favorite...
Absolutely and what made it even better for people on economy was that it went 2-3-2 which is amazing 1 MIDDLE SEAT!!!! That’s unheard of now a days for a wide body and we will NEVER SEE THAT AGAIN.
The 767 is the biggest plane I’ve been on. I really like the 767. It’s one of my favorite planes.
You need to get out more
@Galileo7of9 As long as you have good experiences, sure why not?
Awesome. Please do a similar video for the Airbus A300, A310 and A318
The 319 hasn’t fallen yet, still a really popular aircraft.
@@iamjames8200 oops sorry. I meant the A318
@@iamjames8200 yea but with the A220 eating it’s way up the Airbus lineup, the 319NEO has been suffering.
I agree, but the a318/19 is still doing really good
A310 has been done already
A fellow avgeek highlighted this to me. It’s really impressive how the 767 is pretty much the only commercial aircraft that has been in production for as long as it has, without any major structural, propulsion and aerodynamic modifications. It retains the GE engines offered from very early on, for example. I did my school internship at an aircraft maintenance facility, where they do cargo conversions. There were 6 passenger 767s being converted and the facility had just delivered its 50th 767 conversion. What’s more, cargo carriers are still snapping up brand new ones (UPS just ordered 17) and some passenger airlines are struggling to replace it, all this shows how good an aircraft the 767 is.
I maintain the best solution to Boeing’s NMA is a re-engined 767, instead of the re-engined 757 everyone (avgeeks) seems to want. The existing 767 production line can be simply upgraded for the new plane, a 767-200 sized aircraft could offer wide body capacity and range, to match or even beat the A321XLR and Boeing would save a ton of time and money, compared to launching a “797”. Fingers crossed from a response from Boeing, cause Airbus are on a roll right now.
The 767 is quite unchanged from the original 762 and 763 designs. The original GE powerplant is gone, just as the original PW is gone. The CF6-80A is quite a step back from the newer CF6-80C2, just as the PW4000 is much better than the original JT9Ds.
The winglets have also greatly improved effiency on this ancient design.
A re-engined 767 will be of no use to Boeing creeping right into the 787. A long and wider narrowbody of the size of the 757 is the way to go. A re-engined 757 will not work as well. Clean sheet it is.
Thing is, the main reason the 767 is still in production now is the military. The KC767/KC46.
Boeing didn’t mince their words, if they lost the tanker competition, the 767 production line would close with many job losses.
They were considering closing it at the same time as the 757 line.
@@kingsharkoon Let’s wait and see.
@@BrySkye UPS just ordered 17 new 767 freighters from Boeing, a majority of the current orders are from FedEx and UPS, I don’t think they sold as many KC46-As. But the fact they make the 46A is the reason why their NMA can be a reengined 767. The 46 is a 762 sized airplane which can seat 220 in a comfortable 2 class config.
Boeing is starting to remind me of GM.. pinheads in the executive suite that ignore the engineers and designers.
Great video. I liked the few times I've flown on the 767. Their economy layout of 2-3-2 made it seem more spacious. It was also the only airliner I had the chance to fly in Business Class on an upgrade...too bad it was only YYZ to YHZ.
The 767 used to be my favorite airplane, so it’s really sad for me to see them slowly fade away.
They will be around as FedEx is received many new 767 freighters to replace MD 10 , etc
Also KC 46As are replacing KC 10s.
My grandpa flew that 767 for TWA from BOS - CDG. One of my favourite things ever about him and *finally* found a video reference!
The 767 line is still open because of the KC-46A tanker program and the 767-300F production. In fact, there is large demand for the 767-300F due to increasing demands of online retailers worldwide.
I like the 2-3-2 seating configuration in the premium economy section and even economy class, especially when I am traveling with someone.
Still consider myself lucky to have flown on one of Delta’s 767-400ERs. The 764 is not a very common sight nowadays so I’m glad that I got the chance to fly on one.
767 is kicking ass! Delta delayed it retirement again into late 2026-2028 depending on loads and replacement. No plane is a direct replacement.
Flew on this plane twice, both times during a family vacation to Maui in 2011. Remember the take off was steeper than anything I experienced so far.
Awesome vid bro!
Back in my business travel day out of MCO in the 80's, the Delta L-1011 was the equipment of choice. I would base my travel assignments around it. I would grumble when I had to get on lesser aircraft. Years went by and so did the L-1011. I finally settled down in the SF Bay area. Two trips to FRA and MAD in the 90's intro'd me to the 767/777. What wonderful replacements they turned out to be for the 1011. Sleeker models with nods back to the L-10. They are comfortable and spacious replacements.
The 777 was great until airlines started refitting them with 10-across coach seating. In that configuration, they’re miserable.
You had good taste, the L-1011 was awesome
I'm not a huge 767 fan if I'm honest but I can still see that it has helped pave the way for most of the current wide body twin engined aircraft which now dominate the transcontinental market. It was the first aircraft to acquire ETOPS 180 so that's a massive achievement on its own.
Another great video! Keep it up
The footage was taken to show the Boeing 767 of American Airlines (1:34 to 1:44) was filmed at Porto Alegre International Airport (Salgado Filho), city where I live. Porto Alegre is the southern most capital of Brazil, close to Montevideo (Uruguay) and Buenos Aires (Argentina).
767-100/200 with new engines and wings from the 787 would fit the bill for the NMA. They already have the tooling and production facilities for it. Wouldn’t compete with any current Boeing offerings and is cheaper than a clean sheet 797. Or of course the elusive 757x would fit perfectly. I can dream.
I still think that whilst Boeing could upgrade the 767 with new engines etc, I don't think many airlines would take it. United would probably be the only large customer for the passenger version. The 757 has been out of production for 17 years so that wont be upgraded, the 737 cannot be updated again - it needs a new clean sheet design, and the 787 is too new to be upgraded yet - no one would buy it. If they were to upgrade any aircraft it would be the 767, but I think that the best option is for a clean sheet design, as it would probably put Airbus on the back foot, not just catch up to them, even if this will take longer.
You do know that the 737 is the second largest moneymaker for Boeing ?? They are already designing a newer re-engined version without a clean sheet design . It’s gonna have wings like the 787 with more efficient engines than the max with a raised Landing gear to increase height (for takeoff weight reasons) . So it’s already on the way and set to come by 2027 or 2030
@@nikkib-superbass3580 they are already re-designing the 737? Nah, ofc not, the 737 is upgraded to its max, it's way logical for Boeing to make a whole new aircraft
@@mgsaviation9292 good pun
@@pranadprabhu2586 :)
@@mgsaviation9292 oh ye I forgor about the level cap for the 737 , gotta get a new one 🤣
I think Boeing Could Re-engine, re-wing and give the modern sky interior to the 767 if they wanted to 👌
After all, Airbus did a similar thing with their A330 series, added A350 style wings and upgraded engines and gave her their modern AirSpace interior, to make the A330-800Neo and A330-900Neo, the latter obviously has been more popular.
The 767-400ER has the sky interior with the pivoting overhead bins. Some 300ER’s were also retrofitted with the updated interior during major checks. Additionally, some new late build 200ER’s for Continental also had the sky interior fitted standard. Now we just need that new wing and some engines. 😀
@@mazdaman0075 *Signature interior also known as the 777 interior
@@ag6371 Thank you, yes, Signature not Sky. I was thinking of the pivoting bins which are of course part of the Sky interior but without the LEDs etc.
Yeà , they already have experience building composite efficient wings for the 787/777X. Wouldn't be surprised if they re engined the 767 and added a new wing
@@mmm0404 I think a 767 redesign is unlikely, but if they did do it, I think she'd look beautiful 👍🏻
Nothing new here - just rehashing old known news -- this channel will go the way of the 767
Wonderful aircraft it is
In my opinion the 767/757 are the best airplanes Boeing has ever made. I am so glad that Delta is keeping theirs past 2025. With the totally brand-new interiors you would think you are on the newest Airplane available. I'm saddened that Boeing has all but abandoned them because they are absolutely still one of the best Airplanes out there from a passenger comfort point of view. Airbus has replacements for them but to do that an Airline needs about 4 different models which I also like, but Airlines would probably prefer just the two Boeings due to cockpit commonality. I will fly on them as long as Delta keeps them.
The 757 was deliberately developed at the same time as the 767 to give the two aircraft the same cockpit layout and similar flying characteristics to achieve a common type rating for pilots (at least at launch). That's why the 757 cockpit looks a bit weird - large 767 style glass on a 707/727/737 type fuselage.
As for any future 767 development - the 787 competes in the same market as the 767, so any future development will likely be from that platform.
Similarly, the 737-Max is now large enough to compete in the same market as the 757, which is why that has ceased production.
Great video. Are you ever going to cover the Antonov An-22? 😁
767 was always a great aircraft to work on and passenger on. We got to operate some interesting routes on it, ones that could not justify a 777 or 747 because of the load factor.
Wow, that sound interesting! I would like to hear one of those interesting routes!
1:48 That's the Modern 767 Cockpit.
Fun fact: when entering the cockpit of a 757, there is a short step down. In the 767, it is a short step up. ⚠️ Don't trip! 😃
I like the 767's 2x3x2 seating.
They must love PDX very much 😉
Between the 767-400ER and 767-400ERX, is the only difference the range, but would both look exactly the same?
Nobody ever talks about this but I believe a re-engined (and maybe re-winged like the 777x) 767 would have been a smarter choice than the 787. It doesn’t face the same challenges a new 757 would, since the freighter variant is still in production, and the Genx would suit this plane well. It can cover most of the 787’s market while being able to fly into smaller airports, and the nma market segment while being more comfortable and flying farther than the narrow bodies poised to take over this segment.
Let’s get an MD-11 video!
The 767 will never die.
Music in the background needs to be lowered
United will have the 767-400 flying for some time, the one in IAH that landed and had a cracked in the fuselage cost 10 million to repair. Scott Kirby said the plane is too valuable to be salvaged and we need it to make revenue for the company.
I have one burning question: where is the 767 being produced? Which factory? Is still in everett?
Boeing should build a 767 ultra !
How a 767 and 757 could be related is beyond me. Totally different flight experience. One takes forever to get off the ground and the other puts you back in the seat and beams you to great heights quickly. You knew you were on something special with the 757. As boring as the 767 was in comparison, I do like the seating.
They are related in system design. They have the same type rating good to fly both aircraft.
The only commonality is the cockpit, the systems are vastly different, I flew both and you always had to be careful not to get confused when operating both at the same time
Completely disagree. Pilots describe the 767 as being way more agile.
frist 2 pilots in the 80 S i see just a rise for more ! but still a legend ! get your number right dude ! ya 400 model but the 300er still going strong !
I think the word "Fall" is inappropriate here since the 767 is still widely in use.
Actually the reason why Boeing 767 remain in production is because some scepticism within Airlines to Boeing 787 when they just launched and got problem with their battery. And now with 737 MAX facing another flow, it's kept pushing the interest for 767
Not necessarily , the battery issue is just some minor challenge that came with an all electric architecture. It has been solve close to a decade ago and there has never been an issue since .
Some airlines still operated the 767 because it is much lighter than the 787. The 787-8 for example has close to 20 tons more weight than the 767 400 ER making it inefficient for short to medium haul routes .
Even though the 767 has less efficient engines , it is much lighter than the 787 making it better for short/ medium haul flights in the short term
took royal air maroc only's 767 2 years ago , loved the sound of its engines sadly, they converted it to a freighter only.
I flew on a 767 back in the 90s. Awesome aircraft. At that time, I was surprised at how many poeple were on it.
Etops was only observed by American and European aviation regulators. That's why Airbus A300/310 were popular in Asia where ETOPS wasn't observed but Boeing 767 was popular with American and European carrier that flew transatlantic route and Japan which had extensive workshare in the program. B-767 was expressly designed for such operations (FAA ETOPS relaxation occurring with 767's entry in service wasn't a coincidence) so it did better than rival Airbus offering, which were designed without guarantee that extended twin engine operation would happen soon.
However once they launched A330, Boeing 767 was basically dead.
To understand it's demise one has to be aware of reason for its success.
767 being some $40million cheaper than 787... make sense for some airliners to keep ordering them.
The fall? Which fall?? They still rock
I'd like to see a smaller version of the 787 as a competitor. Like a 787-7
I am not aircraft expert, but find them interesting. What I don’t understand is all the Boeing models that seem to overlap for their purpose. 767, 777, 787. Seems like it’s the same category.
The 767 is still built as a freighter so I do not consider it to have had a fall it had a successful run
As a child I travelled from Miami to Madrid in a 747, it was terrible to say the least... economy class of Iberia's 747 at the time was $@!#. I felt like I had been stuffed into a can of tuna or sardines. On the flight back from Miami to Madrid, I flew on a 767 of American Airlines. The experience was the opposite, totally. Economy class seats were wide, comfortable and all had easy access to the aisles to go to the bathroom, to board and to unboard the aeroplane. I really wish for this aircraft to remain in business and see what new technologies and designs can be included to make this model more magnificent than it already is.
Appreciate having to turn down the volume. Nice video, _music_ …eh…
FALL!? Man, I guess you could say Fall of a “Passenger version of a 767” but they are still being produced “Brand new” for the likes of The Military, FedEx and Ups! By the way, appreciate the pics of UPS in this installment, but FedEx already has “111 767’s in service” with a total of “136” by NOV ‘23! So, not quite seeing your Fall of the 767!
The quality of this channel is slipping. Monetization, I guess.
It's never been better than a quick overview newspaper.
9:07 wait a minute why is that 737 going vertically up
Whoa i’m early
Needs bigger overhead bins to fit todays roller bags.
Yes! 767-100 is the MMA (NMA) answer! New wings and engines with the 787 cockpit and they have it! 767-2 The infrastructure is there and still in use. Could totally be produced on the existing line with the freighters. Then they could concentrate their resources on the new single isle 737 replacement.
There is no such thing as a 767-100
@@pirate3599 Exactly. It should be built as a NMA. Read my comment again.
@@RScottPR going backwards from -200 -300 -400 doesn't make sense
Not a bad idea, but Boeing really dropped the ball by sticking with a 1960s 737 design, huge blunder
@@pirate3599 it’s about the size. Typically the lower the -number the smaller the plane. How about a -3 to start?
A re-engine would definitely be great on this. But it’s so weird why they haven’t.
Because that is what the 787 is.
Ever since Boeing acquired MCD, they have had nothing but problems. The MCD management really messed up things at Boeing. The 757 is an awesome plane, but once sales fell off after 9/11, they killed it off. if they could have only seen into the future... The 767 is another great plane, but in aviation, size matters and with bigger planes coming along and technical advances, I don't see it being used except by the military as a tanker. A new clean design narrow body is the best bet for Boeing or and advanced 757.
Wanna see story behind the world's only BBJ767-400ER A9C-HMH
I just have a few questions. 1. Dis the 767 really have upwards sliding door.
2. Why did the landing gear arranged itself forward
3. Why the rear of the aircraft taper to the centre more evenly than other aircraft
1. Yes. 2. To fit into the wheel wells. 3. I don’t know.
I’m anxious to see what aircraft Delta will replace its 767s with. They are aging fast and they don’t have anything on order to replace them so it makes me wonder what Boeing is really up to.
Some of them are being replaced with the 330-900NEO but true they have some to replace.
Quite funny that the 777 and the 767 both followed the new kid on the block the A300
I can’t believe airlines are ordering new 763s in 2021, and that the order book goes past 2025
0:20 featuring a 777
I thought the 787 was the replacement for the 767.
I wouldn´t really call the 767-200 long range, Rather medium+ range. The range 7200km, is just between medium and long haul. And the aircraft would really need a fairly light load to do that
The 767 -200 ER could fly up to 12000 km
@@mmm0404 200ER is a totaly revamped aircraft that have more incomon with the 300 than the 200
Yes the 737 has been upgraded, even recieving new up-to-date wings with the NG. Conversely the 767, while a more than capable freighter (where different economics apply) and still being profitable for operators as an older and cheaper to buy/lease etc. aircraft has received little in the way of a significant development.
Would new more efficient engines give enough of an improvement to justify the much higher acquisition costs (admittedly cheaper than a clean sheet design would be) of a factory fresh aircraft? Or would a baby 787 with scaled down wings etc. be a better proposition, even than a clean-sheet design? After all Boeing successfully scaled the 707 down to the 720, and used much of the technology/design for the 727 and 737 lines.
In the days where flexibility is King, perhaps a degree of commonality and interchangeability is desirable unless it is taken to an extreme, which so many now believe has been the case with the 737.
Has a new updated flight deck as well...same PFD/MFD setup as the 787.
this should be RISE-FALL-RISE (as cargo)
767-400 ER is just a less fuel efficient version of the 787-8. Boeing should should just make a 787-7 and maybe a 787-6 for the NMA project
If a plane has been in service for over 40 years with 764 in service it really hasn't had a fall #stupidtaglines
It's doubtful that the 767 will be upgraded, because the 787 was its upgrade and a much better airplane overall.
The most comfortable twin isle civil aviation aircraft
Boeing 767 (2-3-2) > Airbus 330 (3-2-3) or Airbus 380 (3-4-3) too chaotic or Airbus 350 (3-3-3) narrower 18.5>18
They need to be lighter, update wings, update more fuel efficient engine, make fly by wire, modernize
I don't know why the 767 with its more sweepback wing can't fly faster than a 757.
I don't like B767, but I like B747
Simple Flying's obsession with re-engining the 767/757 has grown tiresome. It's not going to happen, so just drop it.
More of a transition than a "fall".
A Clean sheet widebody version of the 757 that will replace the 767…
Uhmm you mean the Dreamliner???
The best AC I ever flew!!!
DELTA , KLM , IS REQUESTED TO KINDLY START FLYING DAILY FROM AMSTERDAM TO ATQ , AMRITSAR , PUNJAB , INDIA . OVER 10000 PEOPLE TRAVEL TO NEW DELHI ON DAILY TO CATCH FLIGHTS .
And rise again
I don’t think it has much of a future with the 787 pretty much taking it’s place
Also, Boeing shouldn't of discontinued the 717 since it was well sought after before the C-series came out.
*have
The Boeing 767 will remain one of the most popular widebody twinjet for many years to come
Nope. Most have already been retired and are converted to cargo aircraft.
I don’t think they will launch an updated 767 as it will cannibalize sales from the 787
Not if it’s based on the 767-200, then it would fill the niche between the 737 and 787!
So where is "... the fall of the Boeing 767"?
I prepared for the rise but not for the fall😂😂😂😂
Aren’t 787 is the replacement of 767?
767 still able to improve, add new engine and technologies but I think Boeing should focus on NMA because they already loosing the huge market of this type of the aircraft by Airbus A321XLR
Funny sub lol
I realize that the pilot's experience doesn't complete the analysis, there's many other factors. Regardless, the 767-300ER was a great plane to fly and my passengers and crew enjoyed it as well. It's versatile and reliable. At home on a US trans-con or working the North Atlantic- making money and pleasing the passengers.
Now do "The Rise And Fall Of The 717/MD-95"
That's already been done to death. Just do a search. It never really had a rise, it sold very poorly.
I think the MD-90s can be a better choice, since there are 0 in the Air.
The quickest way to get a middle-market plane delivered is a 767-200X/-300X. New wings, new engines (787 style perhaps), and advanced 787/777X avionics/cockpit design. It’s a slim wide body that fits the NMA market well with commonality covered
Like they quickly got the 737 MAX out. That was a brilliant idea too.
Eyyyyyyyyy
There is audio problem on this video the background score is so loud that many times the narrators voice is not audible.
I think Boeing should relaunch the 787-3 because it would slot between the 787-8 and the 757. This would serve as a good replacement for Delta & United's ageing 757s some of which are over 30 years old as well as their 767s.
To heavy. The economics of it don't work since it has almost all the weight of the larger versions. That's why it was canceled. All too expensive to manufacture for the market segment.
This design is a victim of it's own success.. thier are 3 major flaws with it.. 1 the engines are limited on thier fan diameters sizes.. you can't put anything bigger on The airframes
2. Cargo size.. the layout, to get the passenger loads it forced Boeing to design a small hold which required a smaller uld for the cargo compartments.
3 .range . Because it was really designed for medium rang high traffic routes (less then 3800mi) any weight savings was tossed out for the extra fuel for those extra miles traveled
No, I think the range was the reason why the 767 outsold the A300.
ETOPS: Engine Turns Or Plane Swims 😅
Fall? It's just too old at this point.
I would disagree, you cannot order a new 767 in the passenger variant. United tried and failed a few years ago in ordering the passenger 767.