F is for Family - The Consequences of Changing Men
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- It's easy to demand change. It's less easy to deal with its consequences.
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That's the most frustrating thing about men being lectured about toxic masculinity. The solution isn't always just to emote all the time. Believe it or not there are also malicious people out there who will use your emotions and vulnerability against you
Being emotional vulnerable for a man is all risk and no reward. The only "reward" is looking good for your hip liberal girlfriend who wants a man who "opens up". That's why men only do it in very selective situations.
Isn't that kinda what Chet does in season 3? The way he opens up to Frank just to trick him and call Frank out in mockery, 'cause that's how he detracts from his own misery from his own past and Vietnam trauma?
That's how society reinforces it yeah. You need some balance and stating these caveats about how malicious people can use it against you out loud is a great start id say. Funny enough Ive never met malicious people. Not among adults. Swedes are pretty timid and agreeable.
That why we need to learn to read folk
F Is For Family feels like the love child of King of the Hill and That 70s Show. It's seriously so good.
IKR!!! I love this show!!
Praying that Sue doesn't turn into Peggy Hill
Now I want to see it!
Me and my sister have rewatched the series 4 times
I'd say king of the hill and all in the family
When I first saw images of this show, I thought it was going to be another generic crappy adult sitcom like modern Family Guy, but watching this video has given me a completely different perspective on it. Good video.
What do you think of it now?
Yeah I wanna watch it now
I like it, frank really does fit being a stressed out dad
Its so much better than family guy. It actually has depth and continuity.
Yea it's nothing like family guy
I've been encouraged to be sensitive and share my feelings. As a man, that's a bad idea because every time I did so, I'm called a pussy or something because I dared felt depressed about something OR...GASP...I got issues and I don't have all the answers. Men are expected to be indestructible in our society.
Oh, and I've hardly ever been mocked by OTHER GUYS for daring to have an emotion, I'm mocked and made fun of by women.
That's sadly how it is now. Men used to have an out for emotions, men's clubs, men's only places. Those are mostly gone now, now men can only truly rely on friends they trust if they got them...
I noticed that too. Alot if people tend to assume that the men should be indestructible rhetoric comes from dad or coach. Yet 9 times out of ten its mom or wife who reinforce that notion while also pressuring them to be open with their emotions at the same time. But they forget that some of those emotions wont always be pleasant.
@@brandonhann1508 probably because other men have experienced it, so they are trying to give young boys the tools they need to operate in a system where they are stuck in a double bind
shit im not even male and i felt this.
Yeah it's why we just bottle up all our feelings, our insecurities, and our problems. The only socially acceptable way to sort of vent it out is through the use of humor or at a bar with friends and beer. I just bottle it all up until it explodes in the form of a breakdown. I'll probably end up doing the same if I ever get married. Sharing my feelings only ever brought unnecessary suffering and troubles anyways.
The idea of providing for our families, being emotionally available for our family, and retaining our perceived masculinity comes with a good deal of caveats, is extraordinarily concise. How can we be open when the times we do open up, we get ostracized? I really enjoyed your analysis, thank you.
"Well I feel like life is hard and I'm struggling to cope."
The world: "But you're a man! You don't have any problems! You know who has real problems? Women. Kick yourself in the nuts right now for even thinking you as a man could ever have real problems."
@@derek96720 yup exactly that
You probably get ostracized because, like Frank, opening up is more like "WHAAAAAA! MEEEEE!!!!!" and not "Well my dad died and I'm having a hard time coping." I have never seen or experienced the latter being outright bashed on*, so I think maybe try self reflection and stop worrying what other uninvolved people think? "The World" is a pretty abstract idea and there's whole college campuses of soyboys sharing feelings and are happier for it. MY advice to you: New friends, new settings. If you think what worked 10 years ago is gonna work today, you're fucked.
@@DuoXCity New setting? With what money? Have you ever had your own family mock, belittle, and insult you for opening up about your suicidal tendencies? Often times the world is more your inner circle and community. When even those close to you come at you for opening up what good is there to actually talk about anything?
@@DuoXCity Wow, doesn't take a genius to know that you're sheltered. I bet you don't believe that men can be abused, even raped, by women.
"You want the new negatives be worth getting rid of the old negatives." Yet the human mind struggles to understand this. Dude, that was deep and a very intelligent remark.
I LOVE F is For Family. I think it's almost as -- If not equally as good -- as Bojack Horseman. But I'm really sad that it doesn't get NEARLY the same amount of praise and recognition. Most people hardly even know that FiFF exists. So thank you for talking about it!
Its artstyle leaves a lot to be desired, which is the initial draw to any cartoon. Bojack Horseman was an immediate draw for people given the cooky character designs and Bojack looking like what was a popular meme at the time.
Also, F is for Family immediately starts on an uncomfortable tone where as Bojack lures a lot of people in with light comedy. The opening scene in the first episode, while it does set the tone properly, is quite uncomfortable to sit through.
@@ShadyDoorags I thought the first scene was hilarious! Frank's anger is just so funny to me. At least, when they play it off comedically. It's less funny when you start taking it seriously. And Bill Burr does an incredible job bringing the character to life.
@@ShadyDoorags Honestly I think the art style works with the setting. It literally looks like something that could've come out in the 70's (albeit maybe with slightly brighter colors) which fits because, well, it takes place in the 70's! Now if the show was set in modern times, the animation wouldn't have worked nearly as well.
I like Bojack better because it's deeper but this show cracks me the fuck up
Christina Hunt yeah I’ve recently finished season 3 and I hope it gets another season because I wanna see how Frank deals with his father
The fact that bill burr (a comedian who talks about family problems) just amplifies Franks Character
Frank pretty much is Bill. He talks about how he was raised with a Dad that was so overcome with stress we'd unleash he emotional problems on his Family and his Mom just tool it because she knew he'd calm down. Bill admires women who can deal with men like that because he is one of those guys. He buries is anger and emotions deep down until they explode out of him. He's a family man and wants to fix his anger problem. He has a women that not only deals with his emotional rollercoaster but laughs at him for it. The dude is a lucky man and a down to earth angry, bald Ginger.
I knew that was Bill , he’s the perfect guy for that conversation
Bill is a leftist
I know a lot of people say it took them a while to get into the show. For me it took the first episode. Why? Because it hit home. I was raised in a pretty dysfunctional family. One were my parents would scream at each other. In a way, it let let me know that I wasn’t the only one who suffered from the family such as this. Granted, it wasn’t as extreme as the family portrayed in this show, but it was still enough to leave a mark on me. I’m so glad to see people talking about this show because I feel like it’s vastly unappreciated.
So would you say he's...…. GOING THROUGH CHANGES
Well this comment pretty much summarizes your channel
Didn’t expect to see you here. A surprise but a welcome one.
She’s kind of obnoxious thiugh
I have so many mixed feelings about that show.
lmao
It always repeats, I get told to open up, I open up, they ghost me or call me a myriad of things and then leave.
Maybe because you say some foul, hurtful shit when you "open up" that makes them realize you weren't someone who needed help, but a piece of shit. Sounds like you also do very little self reflection since you just blame the people and don't bother to even wonder why.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 or maybe he has bottled up anger that nobody wants to help with
@@curtismcpsycho8212 what's funny is she is actually proving his point
People don't want the truth. They want validation.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 What a big load of assumption you got there buddy, see it's because of things like this I don't open up. Get out your issues with men at the psychologist, not with some nobody, I am not the nefarious leader of the patriarchy, I am just a dude wanting to be normal.
I appreciate your emphasis on taking care of family being the basis of the traditional male role. A lot of of people misinterpret the traditional male roll.
Take hunting for example, it’s often misconstrued as the man’s affinity for violence and dominance. However, the true value of hunting is self reliance. It’s about learning the skills to take care of one’s self and one’s family in an emergency by guaranteeing that you’ll always have some way of providing food.
This show really opened my eyes up about life in general.
There's this great song from Gogol Bordello and it has this gem, "Everyone wants you to tell you like it is... then they all just get pissed."
That's because most people ask for truth but want validation instead.
Her reaction is so real... He's angry with himself, he doesn't WANT to be angry with her, he does this digging to please her and she responds with getting angry at him which makes him angry at her.
She should've handled this better, she thought this would've been an easy fix which is her own fault... She wasn't expecting to deal with any problems that'd be tied to her.
This is a common mistake that feminism has caused in women. The man acts masculine, and the women has 0 appreciation for this and tries to change him. The second he abandons his masculinity to change for her, the woman lashes out at him for not being enough of a man. Women need to learn to appreciate men for what they are. Vice versa is also true of course :)
@@AnimeFreakish78 yeah, and it doesn't even have to be abandoning your masculinity, just being lenient or trying to please her.
Well men really are accepting of basically any youthful woman
He was already mad at her. He was already taking it out on her. And the entire time she probably thought it was stress from the outside world or maybe even something she did.... Just to find out that her busting her butt made him feel less than, but if she didn't they wouod be homeless. That shit is frustrating to the max.
I have been in her shoes before. The key is the talk afterwards. After the dust settles and you calm down. Opening up has to happen on both sides.
@@DravenUrei he was and that was a problem to him, he didn't WANT to be angry with her. But her success was making him feel like a failure.
Its complex emotions
This whole thread is a big oof
Could you do a review/analysis of *_Moral Orel?_* It’s a criminally underrated cartoon, their first seasons had a more lighthearted tone compared to their second season and specially it’s third.
The show is about a boy named Orel who lives in a extremely religious town: Moralton, Orel wants to became a good person and Christian, you’ll think he would need good role models to achieve this but the majority of the town is full of hypocrite and miserable people.
As the series progressed what started as a comedic satire about religion became very real in it’s last season, but beware because it’s _dark,_ Bojack seems like a ray of sunshine alongside Moral Orel.
Donate then he will have no choice ahaha
Yes!!! Moral Oral is amazing and has one of the most satisfying endings of any show.
Yes! Moral Orel is extremely underrated.
I haven't seen most TV shows to ever exist, but of the ones I have seen, Moral Orel is one of the best.
I spoke about it in his live stream. He’s not exactly enthusiastic, however mainly because the humor can bring up sexual topics which Shady isn’t very comfortable with. I understand, but in the last season it’s not much like that. I let him know it’s on Dailymotion.
Cool to see people talking about and relating to this because I've had this problem but never really known how to explain it. I've gone along with the whole "open up" thing and been met with fights and awkward conversations that go nowhere. "Opening up" is great in theory but in practice, the person you're opening up to isn't going to just see that you're opening up, they're going to see all of the feelings you were hiding and often realize that they don't like what they found. I guess the position I've settled into is that there are some people who experience things the same way I do, who can really understand where I'm coming from and know how to talk about it, but there are other people who just can't relate to my feelings. I'll open up to the people who make it productive to open up to them and find different strategies to deal with the others. Communication is meant to be the first step to mutually finding a solution. If the other person can't understand my problem, or is outright offended by it, they aren't going to help find a solution. But that doesn't mean I have to give up on finding it myself.
Likewise though, a good way to prevent fights when someone opens up to you is to look at what they're saying as "I feel this way and I want you to know so we can move forward together towards both being happier" rather than "I want you to change yourself or sacrifice what you want to make me happy." The instinct is always to assume the second one.
Pretty accurate though; you get stuck in a rut for half a decade trying to make everyone happy but can't live with the lie and get told to do what makes you happy until what you want makes THOSE people have to make tough choices, then you're inconsiderate and selfish even though you're not even going at it for yourself but for them. You can't win, all you can do is deal with it.
Nihga what? He made no sacrifices, she did. She didn't do a fucking thing to him but be a good wife who did what was necessary for her family while he grew to resent her JUST for being successful. Dude you ARE selfish and that's why you keep having the same experience. Maybe stop thinking and doing fuck shit, so when you open up you don't have to admit you are an absolute piece of shit and feel entitled to them staying with you for it.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 What problems do you have?
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 Found the Tumblr feminist!
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 you're part of the problem.
@@potaterjim No, Im not. Im actively describing the problem. If you secretly resent your wife, then leave. Dont gaslight her by blaming her for your shitty opinion for trying to help. THe problem isnt his wife wanting him to open up. The problem is him resenting his wife lmao.
Gary's Demons. Its a VRV original and nobody has seen it. And that's a shame.
Blame VRV's international inaccesibility
@@JDON.108 vpn, but yeah, it wasnt easy to access
What’s it about?
@@epicphail2926 Imagine if buffy the vmapire slayer was a balding, bitter middle aged man who treated it like an office job he can't stand. Because that's literally what it is to him. And I can confirm - it's a fantastic show that I would LOVE to see Shady delve into.
I'll check it out
As a complement to Shady's points in 5:16 and 6:31, I'd say that communication is a two-way street, and for it to work effectively, One must learn how to listen Others and how to express oneself to Others.
Also, one thing that gets my attention is the emphasis of men being providers in a relation always stays on an exclusively material and monetary level.
First of let me say that is actually a great video and an interesting topic but
1) I don’t think that Frank telling Sue what was wrong made things worse. I’d rather have someone tell me that for a long time they hated my success due to gender roles than to have my partner/husband literally stone walling me. I do also believe that most psychologist and therapist would agree me (see John Gottman - The Four Horsemen)
2) I absolutely believe that Sue reacted the wrong way. It the most common way people would react but it’s definitely wrong. She already knew he was having issues “being a man” and having that need to provide (the episode where she puts money in his wallet, comes to mind). She could’ve addressed how he was being a provider and a caretaker in other ways and that they should be a team rather than competing. After that she could tell him that it does still upset her that he was rooting for her to fail. He did explain that him wanting her to fail was more about his need to still “be the man of the house” (gender roles) vs him wanting to control her and make feel worthless (manipulation/control issues)
I think that you shouldn’t be in a serious adult relationships if you’re not ready to validate your partner’s feelings and to actively work on some very heavy issues.
It took me awhile to get into the show just because of how real it is to the point where it's almost completely under unwatchablefor me but when I gave it a chance it grew on me fast and while it's not as good as Bojack it is still up there rivaling its quality in writing and character development.
One of the things I see consistently in media is the expectation that men have to change to conform to the expectations of others - especially a significant other - and women in particular - but the exchange is not reciprocal. Female characters often conform to a trope of nagging harpy where this well-built and wise female character is constantly tearing down the bumbling, ineffectual, or troubled male character for failing to live up to her standards. If the male character does something negative this makes sense, but if he is turning to her for support and guidance, shouldn't she build him up rather than tearing him down? With all this emphasis on positive female representation going around a lot of it seems to be centered on the endorsement of females by the destruction/deconstruction of male, rather than creating an environment where the sexes in coexistence cooperate for mutual success.
You need to get laid
My explanation for this would be that the show is set in the 70s where men were encouraged to hide their feelings, Sue tries to get him to show emotions, but she was probably hoping that he would be more loving towards her and their family rather than be depressed. I feel like shows these days are more understanding towards men’s feelings and accept that men also are insecure and depressed, take BoJack Horseman as an example amongst others. I feel like as a society we are more progressive and if anything Covid had allowed people to be more open about mental health and feelings in general which is a positive thing.
@@CrustyBodyPillow1TTV
I honestly can’t believe that people are more open today than they were back then when it comes to being open in relationships. It’s seems almost every month that I hear one of my coworkers’ or friends’ concerns not taken seriously in their relationship. Some of them even get berated for it. And a lot of the shows out now still feel negative towards the subject. The characters aren’t really receptive to it and the main character just ultimately have to accept that his emotions don’t carry any weight and just have to get over it. The people they care about either get mad at them or don’t change themselves in anyway to validate the concern with the main character’s conflict. It’s like we talk about it more, but doing anything about it has become worse, because you’re just opening yourself up as a target more
@@nodishtoodeep3053 I was thinking more of people in relationships below the age of 25, same people who grew up in more accepting society. There isn’t many writers for shows/films that are below that age so I believe that’s why it’s still an issue in that area. I may be wrong and maybe the society hasn’t progressed as much as I thought, it’s just I’ve seen way more support and overall raise in mental health awareness on social media.
@@CrustyBodyPillow1TTV
I’m 24 and a majority of the women I’ve dated or slept with did not like me sharing my more complex feelings on things. Some of them even made fun of me publicly, in company sometimes, on things I was really concerned about. That’s mainly the reason I hear about it so much from other men, it’s because I’m open about my personal experience with them. I’m not ashamed to admit I was a victim of domestic abuse in the past. Also about social media, I used to get death threats about making posts for international men’s day awareness, which is partially about mental health acceptance. That’s why I believe it’s a good thing social media is not like society at large.
This show opened my eyes to some of the perspectives my parents had to deal with and struggle with. Some of the things Sue and Frank say are what I heard my parents say. But my parents aren't yellers. Seeing the adult characters and how everyone around then reacts gave me insight into the decade and culture my parents were first married in.
An elder in my family once told me, "what's the point for a woman staying with a man who makes less money than her". That was around the time this show is based.
Hypergamy. That is called hypergamy.
Opening up is the first step and sadly it's the hardest and most hurtful. Emotions are a double edged sword, though they make us human and help us empathize. It can also do alot of damages to both the self and others.
Being expected to unburden myself onto my friends and then having them just dip sure does hit home in some kind of really messed up way.
From an outsider perspective, if he was actively sabotaging his family, Susan supporting that would be completely ridiculous, would it not?
Yes it would be.
The argument is not that Sue should support Frank no matter what. The argument is that when you're asking someone to change, do not expect that change to make everything good. The change will only get rid of the old bad, but it will reveal a new bad which might be worse than the old.
Sue wanted Frank to open up, but when he did, he revealed a flaw worse than when he was keeping his feelings to himself. Sue wasn't ready to deal with said new flaw and instead of working with Frank to better himself, she lashed out angrily which resulted in Frank lashing back at her.
"How dare you feel that way" was her response, when in reality no one directly controls how they feel. People can only control whether or not to act on their feelings.
Frank didn't even know he had the feelings he was harboring and thus became miserable when he realized what he was feeling and how that was effecting his actions. Attacking someone in this state will not do any good, it will just make them feel justified in their earlier mentality of keeping their emotions to themselves.
@@ShadyDoorags Yeah, I agree
@@ShadyDoorags I agree 100%. This is why I was so pissed at Sue.
@@ShadyDoorags sounds exactly like my last rs lol
@@ShadyDoorags that was beautifully put
Change is not inherently good or bad, just different, and has consequences for it.
Statistically speaking when women out earn their male counterpart in a relationship they are more likely to leave him. Combined with family court rewarding custody to the mother. He has a lot of reasons to be worried about. This doesn't take into account how bad feeling worthless in a relationship hurts. You have the fear that someone who you care deeply about might throw you away if you do not provide value to them. So yeah his feelings are justified.
While I agree with you for the most part, I feel like the first bit about women leaving isn't just about the money. Women without financial freedom are less likely to leave their husbands for fear they won't be able to survive without that income, that they won't get to see their kids, or that they won't be able to provide for those kids even if they do get to see them. I know personal antidotes aren't the best evidence, but my own aunt once told me she'd leave her husband if she could afford it a year before he pushed her down the stairs and broke her neck.
Just saying there's two sides to that statistic, they aren't necessarily leaving just because they want a man with more money
Considering how a lot of men feel about being the Breadwinner, and hate the idea of a woman earning more than them, I'm not surprised it would lead to relationships turning sour.
I mean, 4:40- 4:50 yea.
Just Yea.
I open up, and it puts me in a spot to get hit broadside by OTHER people’s distaste for my problems. Rarely, when I open up, have I been met with Empathy, and I mean real empathy; not that cozy “I know how ya feel” shit.
And it irks me. I point out why I have trouble trusting people, and it gets brushed aside like it isn’t a problem that I have found good reason to have. I’m not super emotional to other people than my folks, and even then I doctor it all up so that I don’t make anyone uncomfortable. Or at least feels less overbearing.
I’m in my early 20s for cripes sake, I SHOULDN’T be as holed up as I am about others. I shouldn’t have trouble trusting the opposite sex. I shouldn’t be on eggshells around other people. I shouldn’t have to doctor my speech or change my mannerisms for everyone else. But I do.
I can certainly empathize with the Father in the video tho. It certainly goes to show the difficulty of actually opening up. Really, a big part of it is the lack of Male support groups, as our support structure shifts from our families to being self reliant, and then from there to purely the family. Note that after step one; you’re on your fucking own. And you bottle everything away and just don’t say anything.
How healthy is that?
Which is where having a solid group of friends, even if they won’t talk about that sort of “shit” with you; just having someone to vent out to is helpful. I only have a few really good buddies, mainly because I just haven’t been around many folks to keep the bonds all together. And they helped to work me out of my shell a bit.
However, I know I’m back sliding because I no longer have that active support any more. It’s not a problem that goes away all at once. Society NEEDS to realize this before basically saying “Get over it.” Because if we could do that, we’d have already done it.
"Tell the truth and be open with your feelings!"
Every time I do, my feelings get weaponized against me, my flaws get used as either leverage or ammunition, complaints and advice/suggestions are ignored, and people hate me for not giving them validation.
It has literally taken the majority of my life my life to find a group of friends men's lead actually respect me for who I am, like me for who I am, understandthe volumesof problems I've dealt with, and DON'T do that sort of thing.
Some of the biggest emotional wounds that have are from people who don't understand.
As a husband, father, and sole provider for my family, I understand completely. I lost my job last year with the advent of COVID, and I was denied unemployment. My wife suggested getting part time work in addition to my own job search. I honestly felt threatened. She takes care of the house and the kids phenomenally, and I have a hard time keeping up if I'm alone with them for three hours at a time. If she was also able to encroach on my space, and do it well, then I become obsolete. It's not a very rational fear, but it's a very real fear that every man has. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, or even societal conditioning. I'd call it instinct. The instinct to make yourself indispensable is also the instinct that makes you strive for excellence in what you do. It's what keeps a functional society, functional. Not to mention the fact that, for the most part, men make better wage slaves than women, and women make better mothers than men do. Almost every species on earth has concrete differences between the sexes, and humans are really no different. Gender roles have existed in every culture on the planet throughout the entirety of human history until the last couple decades in the West(not always in the exact same form, but they have existed nonetheless). This doesn't mean we're progressing, it means we're arrogant and out of touch with our own nature.
What ended up happening with the wife? Did she get that part time job?
@@Shadow-zf5uc Not exactly. She fixes people's clothes for money, but there's not enough work around here to really call it a business. Saves us a headache at tax time anyway
I don't why you think that "jobs" are an evolutionary trait. So I guess some dude selling t-mobile at Target is a bigger man than you if his check has an extra 20$ in it, and he works there because of evolutionary traits or something? I feel bad for guys like you, how you measure the value of a man is skewed. I'm a killer stay at home dad and love it. Me and my wife trade off who works so we can take a break from these oligarch corporations and their unreasonable expectations of devotion to them. I can change a diaper and raise a kid, maybe that's WHY I don't ever feel worried about my "manhood"? You really gonna let some business somewhere tell you your own self worth?
You can mock it you can deny it but us "soyboys" are much, much happier than the men worrying about their perceived mochismo. I'm a fucking badass and I know it. Ditch that neocon conservative mindset and join us in this very fruitful and happy place. No relationship will ever be easy but goddamn it sure is rough when you have to consider "SoCiEtAl StAnDaRdS" In your fucking bedroom.
@@dumpsterDeity shared history and personal views related to his history.
@@DuoXCity If you really need to tell a comment section that you're badass because you found something that works for you, you probably aren't a "badass". Good for you for working the way you want, but you need to understand that it won't work for everyone, there's a ton of women who in contrast to the insecurity men feel with not being the provider, these women lose respect for their man when he's not the sole provider. Granted they probably are the wrong woman for said men, but it is what it is.
My man! Yet another great video. Thanks for covering this show man! This show is right up there with bojack.
Thank god for shadydoorag man....he has always delivered on quality shows.... its dope to see him progress in quality- keep it up sir!
Lot of women end up losing respect for men, or being angry when men open up. Seen it happen a lot.
It's kinda fucked up to assume that someone only has good feelings about you and that they only talk about the good ones when around you.
This was a brilliant point 4:32
I did exactly that, was raised by a controlling and dominating mother to be a submissive numale. She didn't understand the consequences of that, and every woman in my life, including my mother, shat on me for the consequences of me being a submissive male. So finally I said fuck that and basically had to teach myself how to be a man. There's no way I'm the only one or even part of a small group. This is now common
You are not the only one.
My circumstances aren't exactly the same, but they're close enough.
I love this show =D What I find fascinating is that Frank is... let's be honest. Frank is an asshole. He's a terrible father, he's kind of racist, he's not a very good husband, and he can barely relate to his sons. And yet, it's still easy to care about him. He feels more realistic than your dime-a-dozen shitty TV dad because he clearly doesn't want to be any of these things, and there's understandable reasons for why he turned out this way.
He's actually trying, and he's not just a cypher for the writers to throw all the negative onto.
also every time his kids were in trouble he ran to save them.
I didn't realize I'd relate to this show so well either
I've been in this spot before. People ask you open up, but aren't ready for the reasons you were closed off in the first place.
I went into this apprehensive that it was gonna be a video about how roles should be strict and all but I was pleasantly surprised by a way more nuanced look at it all
He literally did say that. His point was literally "leave people alone no matter how much it's effecting their life, your marriage, and your personal happiness, because if you find out they're a piece of shit and leave, it's your fault" effectively saying let the Dad stay in his gender role while he silently grows to resent his wife for being successful.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 way to miss the point
@@thewildcardperson true
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 it ain't a gender role cup cake most women can't handle a real honest conversation with a man they will get emotional and leave for hearing a truth and blame you for it if a man cries infront of his women all respect is lost shell be fuking the neibor next week because women are human they care about themselves above everyone else and will step on and hurt anyone there own children included if it means getting ahead in some way
people are evil why does half the population get a pass because they look pretty
It’s good to open up, but it’s never good to mock someone for it, male or female
I’ve seen your videos recommended and I’ve seen you cross over with just a robot, I finally decided to watch your video and I loved it! You did a great job on the ending, I’ll definitely check out more content!
Fantastic video! I was hoping you'd get around to it eventually! I feel like this is the one Netflix show I watch that NO ONE else I know watches! Which is a damned shame, really. I look forward to more from you on this series!
My family (that I grew up with) takes potshots, throws insults and attack me on a daily basis with their shitty little remarks because I’m a stay at home dad.
I’m also one of the smartest members of my family (at least from my moms side) but I also have Aspergers. Idk man. I can’t do it. Being around all these people….I don’t know, it makes my skin crawl and makes me angry. I feel like I’m under a microscope and I just lash out.
But ever since I met my wife and my son, I haven’t looked back. I prefer keeping up the house and teaching my boy.
The only thing I don’t like about it, is how the family I couldn’t choose decides to act towards me because of it. But it mostly pisses me off more than upsets me, anymore. Fuck em, they’re all evangelicals anyway.
Glad you've found a better spot in life
Now that F is for Family is over, this video is so hard hitting and totally agree with your stance on it. Maybe doing an overall series review of the character arcs or the individual characters you enjoyed would make a good video? Love your content!!!!! Can't wait for another, this is me replying after my third rewatch of this video.
next review about frank and his kids or phillip's repressed anger
The dumpster kid that wears the diaper on that show freakin' cracks me up! 🤣 Best character, IMO.
I wish more people did videos on F is for family
If growing up as the only guy in a house of many women and my dating experiences with women has taught me anything it's to never show any emotion beside happiness around them. Women constantly harp on you to share your feelings but it's not because they actually want you to find relief but because they want to wear your feelings like a trophy and if your feelings are too intense they run away. Honestly I've found my best interactions have been with women too old for either of us to develop romantic feelings or too young to develop feelings, one because they know the hardships in life and the other because all they want you to do is play dolls with them(I had a ton of nieces).
I have a similar problem and only noticed( I kinda knew but not consciously ) in recent years the causes , basically things happened in my childhood to teens that made me have trust issues to this day, I won't get specific but as a child my parents didn't have time to take care of me so I was baby-sat by my cousins and suffered physical abuse ( without my parents knowing for years ) but luckily when I was 8-10 years old( I don't remember when exactly ) my auntie and grandmother begin babysit me and my cousins didn't get a opportunity to do it again like in the past, but there would always be families reunions on Sundays and simplifying the story my other cousins's daughters would frame me for thing I didn't do, they would hit me say I hit them and I would be punished and isolated from the reunion, they would also break my toys and do the same as before, in the beginning I would always try to argue trying to proof I did nothing and sometimes had actual proof of what they did like my cousins cousins literally seeing what happened but my cousins being my cousins never take my side and always ended the same way.
Even with me remembering thing from my time with my cousins babysitting me I don't get to feel the same emotion as I feel when I remember me desperately trying to convince them I was innocent just how I was trying and trying and in the moment I realized that no matter what I said or if I didn't do anything no one in the room would trust my word it just felt awful, when I group I noticed that it only happened with my cousins and my parents weren't involved but at the time I felt like they here someway agreeing with and wouldn't believe me and in someway other people would be the same so if I had something to say about how I fell unconsciously through that nobody would take me seriously even my friends.
I am someone that the people always ( mostly on high school ) would say I am a good listener and giving advice, but more importantly made people feel easier to talk about their personal problems and in closer friends case difficult emotions, familiar problems etc, but in my third year of high school I noticed that I begin to act like because I wanted to become closer to people and talk about my feeling but never did until recent years, even after my two closer friends being supportive when I opened up I still keep secrets or thinking in ways to say the truth in a way they would believe me.
I am doing better now but I still instinctively think how to say things to people so that they will think good of me and trust me but I know I do it now and that I have to control myself and I also try to force myself to talk about my problems with people I trust.
- Warning: I will talk about pedophilia-
P.S: Another thing that don't help my problems in trusting people is the fact that while in highschool I and part of my family discovered that one of our family members was a pedophile ( he died in the end of 2018 in work accident ), the thing that made it go from secret (with a surprisingly lot of people how already knew ) to a know fact was that in a family party he tried to molest one girl,but the other girl in the room screamed and people caught him and after a fight he get out on his car but as I discovered when talking to other people in my family and turn out it was his second attempt against that girl and he had multiple victims, just the people I know he tried the same multiple times were 3 minors and an adult(defended herself) all of them female and for what I was when he couldn't convince the people to not call the police or maintain the secret his wife would.
I, my father and the Adult brother of the victim tried to convince the mother to call the police but in the end she didn't.
It felt like I the only one that didn't know the secret or suspect him( granted there were still people who didn't know ).
Basically I can't trust my family.
Sorry the long text and the possible errors english isn't my primary language and I still getting used to write long text.
You sound like a lonely, depressed young man.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 You sound like the type of woman who causes depression like that.
One of the worst things women do is give you the line "YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!".
No... I CAN'T know how you feel or what you prioritize the most... BECAUSE WE'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THE SAME WAY.
We always approach things from completely different angles, and we do NOT prioritize the same things.
So no. I shouldn't have known, BECAUSE I'M NOT GORRAM PSYCHIC.
So yeah. That's a major issue with relationships.
I always say to my husband "if you can't tell me your problems or fears, why are we in a relationship?"
to raise kids in a safe manner, not to be each other's psicologyst.
@@elodin857 Speak for yourself. I'm not in a relationship to have kids.
@@potaterjim why are you in ome then
@@elodin857 why would you want to have kids with someone you don’t actually love
@@papaq3810 where did I say or imply you dont love the person
Wow this was great 👍🏾
Wanting someone you love be beneath you isn't an innocent flaw in my opinion. She had the right to be angry. Like what, so he lashes out at her if she isn't dependent on him?
I think thats the point tho its supposed to be a petty reason , he most likely didn't even know that was what he was feeling after all he said it himself he didn't know how he felt he was never allowed to feel anything and while anger is a common reaction to his outburst which came about after being forced to being in a situation less then ideal and completely uncomfortable for him it wasnt the right choice and only proved that he was right to keep his emotions inside but thats just a sidebar analysis
I think it's more so that he wants to do better then her, so he feels like he has a use for being there. He wants to feel needed. And after she ultimately did better then him at his 1 job of the family. He felt worthless because he had nothing else to offer.
@quetzalpacheco he is basically just there with no actual use
damn man, very intelligent and thoughtful take. really really good. this is my first video of yours and I love it.
Thank you so much for doing this!! This show is so criminally underrated it’s crazy. I think it’s because of the art (which I will admit, is a bit bland and ugly) but it really is a great show! Awesome analysis!! ♥️
First time I've seen F is for Family.
Didn't know there's a show with the James Rolfe the Nerd being the protagonist
Being this show really reflects my family life. My parents have rough patches but cope with the punches life gives them. Now my dad doesn't fly off the handle like Frank very rarely does be get angry.
But he makes mistakes like every person. My mom isn't entirely like Sue. She's stronger than that. She would be a bit harsher and just go do what's needed to take care of the family. There was times with my dad lost his job and she became the bread winner and they worked through it.
They have never done the notions of life they do things their way.
One of the most important rules of life: never ask a question you aren't prepared to hear an honest answer to. I get why Sue is pissed at Frank admitting part of him wished for her to fail, or at least do worst than him. But, she also knew he was a profoundly damaged, angry person, and should have realized the source of that damage and anger was likely to be pretty ugly.
When someone asks a man to open up about how they feel they're fishing for ammunition to us against him later.
Best thing I’ve listened too (I’m working) on RUclips so far this year - subscribed
I really liked your connection with Frank and traditional masculinity. I definitely agree. I saw the episode where the he to went in the retreat in a similar light. Except, I saw his wife pressuring him as an equal to today's society pressuring men to become feminine. It didn't work, because gender roles her reversed, and the woman resents the man. I highly recommend a book called "The Way of Men" by Jack Donovan. Again, great video!
Like how he resented his wife just for being successful. Stop playing the fucking victim card. His "traditional masculinity" is what got him *into* the mess.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 Seethe
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 He didn't resent his wife. He was angry at himself for not doing a better job.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 smooth brained liberal missed the point who would of guessed
@@sebastianlucas704 on fucking point
This show wonderfully shows how woman desperately want men to open up and talk to them but take it as a personal attack that requires defending, everyone wants to have and be that person with infinite patience that is willing to accept everyone but no-one wants to put in that effort and you get situations like the one in the show where they'll spend all day trying to get you to open up only to tear you down right when you do. Occasionally when you call them out on it you might get a more sympathetic response the next time but its really only a coupon that disappears right after its first use, most of the time though if they don't tear you down they just shut down and stop talking either for a little while or for good, depends on what's said. My recommendation is to get a one on one therapist, its pretty much their job to do this and they usually aren't anyone you've already met.
Being a good man, is all that is important to men.
So what about the murderers and rapists? I'm sure their primary concern was being "good men" lol
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 nope, murders concern is getting cought rapists concern is not being able to keep doing what they do
Society side steps men until they get angry; then they’re a danger; that was heavy
The shows "answer" is not a satisfying one, but it is realistic. In their and our society no one cares about male emotional problems, so men end up changing\hiding their emotions.
Ive been avoiding it for some time now, especially after giving it the 3 episode test, but now i have to watch/listen to this show
What should happen is often not what does happen.
Frank is so much like my late uncle frank except he never had a family of his own. One of the greatest guys I ever knew. He had a hard life but he was always kind and talked like nelix from star trek voyager. He died from cancer last year at the age of 60. He dealt with alot of insecurities but he was open about it and was always glad to help others.
Traditional men see the idea of women working and providing as a threat because they think it makes them less of a man. I feel like this means that, according to tradition, a man is one who serves and sacrifices. That he's culturally obligated to do. He has no say in the matter, and if this purpose is taken away, he has nothing. I believe feminism was opposed in the show's time period for this reason.
I, however, tend to disagree with tradition. I feel this cultural obligation for men to serve and sacrifice puts men in the position of being taken advantage. It's like we're meant to carry the stones of society on our backs. So, I like the idea of women carrying part of that burden, at least for themselves. It frees men up. They no longer need to protect or provide for women, cause women can handle themselves. I believe this allows men to do explore other avenues of life, learning a new skill or studying a new subject. This can lead to more job opportunities, or better.
I honestly argee wholeheartedly
@@Batkenpre Unfortunately, the second paragraph had nothing to do with the video. Even so, I doubt a character like him would open himself up to such an idea.
@@azazelgrigori9244 true sadly
Id agree if men weren't abused every time they tried to branch out of traditional male avenues its just the men need to change argument really, which is to say that men need to change but only in ways that others say they can , men need to be more emotional but not if it make me uncomfortable, men need to take on more female oriented roles but only if I agree with those roles men need to suck it up when they are told and thats where they can stay men must stand on a seasaw stuck perfectly horizontal without the ppl observing seeing it dip at all honestly its tiresome
@@michaelortiz1561 I remember working as a cashier at a chain grocery store. It was hectic. The lights and the sounds were so frustrating, and I'm autistic. But dealing with customers was like a no win situation. A woman in a purple dress came over to my register, buying tons of food. I was express lane, btw. She said she had to run over to her car to get the money, leaving three other people in lane waiting. She came back after 20 minutes, payed for her stuff, but also had an extra order. Guess where her money was? In her car. The other customers in line told me I have to stand up for myself. However, I knew that if they caused a similar situation, and I said something, they'd call me rude and I'd get in trouble. Months later, she was coming to my register on a busy day with another big order and I recognized her. I directed her to another open register as I was in the middle of another order, and she called me racist (She was Black). Moral of the story, it was that same seasaw you mentioned.
I'm not saying I'm a feminist. I believe in gender equality, but my version is equality by action. This means that if you want to be equal to someone, you have to accept the same responsibilities that they are held to. Especially in how you treat them. I disagree with feminism because I do not believe it creates equality. In fact, I hate it. Like I said, I'm autistic. I want to be equal to non-autistic people. So, I need to hold myself to certain standards, especially those I'd want enforced onto them. That's not how feminism thinks.
Masculinity is about taking abuse. Whether its from a superior, a romantic partner, a rival, a friend, a sibling, a parent, an elected official, a stranger, or (if you want to get existential) from God. It's like men can't define themselves, but have to live up to the definition given to them by others. So, masculinity is about subjecting yourself to outward expectations. You are no different than an action figure. And so, men take this universal abuse, and toss it to others instead of fighting against it.
There's a saying:
"Stop trying to be a 'good' man and just be one"
People always pressure you to open up & be all emo, but what they dont consider is that not everyone needs to. In fact I'd go as far to say that they are the ones troubled by your focus & stability.
Except in this scenario it actually was bothering him, and it was something he needed to deal with instead of silently resenting his fucking wife for years for doing what it takes to save her family. You fucking people amaze me. Personal responsibility is truly an alien concept.
@@angeliqueclarkson1158 you've been on here for 4 years & only today decided to leave 10 comments blasting men? What's your tit to muffin top ratio honey?
@@duderitoz6953 Dude chill. It's a comment section for discussion not a bitch slapping contest. This is exactly why people are "against" your philosophy. It isn't real. Obviously you're already out and emo, you did it just now by insulting a woman's weight because she disagreed with you. Grow up. Accepting your anger means you can actually control it.
@@skylarsaysstuff the bitch on top has shit on a bunch of men in the comments for sharing their history of opening up and being given shit for it. So we kind of call jer out on it.
My girlfriend always gives me a safe space to speak my mind and let my emotions come as they are. Its not a burden but she helps me and comforts me. Shes a very good girl to me
You should definitely check out the new Netflix Tuca & Bertie
I can’t believe that they cancelled it!
@@JimmySteller it’s coming back on Adult Swim. So don’t worry
Holy shit, you're really good at this. I agree 100%!
when you tell someone to open up be prepared some nasty shit comes out
I'll die before I let myself be really really open. On God i understand it's unhealthy but I will not be berated for my emotional pain. I do it to myself as is.
Then don't bitch about it later
Man, I have been binging your videos, and thank you. They're really great.
i’m sad there’s only one season left
Yeah this critique of the "resolution" is spot on. There will never be a perfect show. The production teams often muk up a masterpiece by fighting over the characters/topics and who gets credit for an episode all the while neglecting continuity and the very foundational narrative that made the show worth watching in the first place.
While I agree with your points about how these types of situations should be treated with logic and empathy, overwhelming personal experience and how society views men in general as disposable has taught me that suffering in silence is the better option to opening up. Logic and empathy are two things we seem to sorely lack in our world today, not that I think we ever had those two qualities in abundance with any previous generations.
And that's not even considering the issues in a relationship. Relationships just seem best to avoid like the plague. Granted, I'm a bit of an introvert so being alone is something I actually require to function properly on a mental level so take that with a small grain of salt. I just think the risk vs reward ratio isn't worth it personally.
It's possible to find someone that you're compatible with as an introvert.
But society doesn't make it easy right now.
@@hariman7727 I never said it wasn't... My mention of being an introvert was in regards to the line "relationships just seem best to avoid like the plague" to give people the understanding that I may be a biased source on that point because being an introvert I prefer to be alone.
My whole point was about being trained by society to just avoid relationships, nothing about being an introvert preventing me from finding a partner. Please read carefully before you pop off a knee jerk response that makes no sense in context.
@@demonwolf8024 from the way that your original post was written it came across like you'd given up on finding love at all.
That's why I chose to give what I saw as support in my first reply.
I should also note that I am an introvert too.
@@hariman7727 I have. It isn't worth the trouble. I have enough respect for myself to not repeatedly subject myself to the myriad of bullsh*t that comes with relationships in our modern society for some ethereal concept that may or may not even actually exist in reality. I'm an introvert, not a masochist.
@@demonwolf8024you still a single prick?
Often the people who pressure others to share their feelings are the least accepting of other people's feelings. They don't necessarily seek your feelings but simply ways to make you feel less than you are..
I learned that the hard way.
People always think they want you to open up and share your feelings because they have a preconceived notion of what those hidden feelings are - usually only feelings that are flattering to them and that play into their fantasies. They think that the only thing inside you is some fashionable crying. But if you're angry, or bored, or afraid (especially of them,) they're going to remember why we keep things inside in the first place.
How about a tuca and bertie video. I would love to see your thoughts on things
Nate Broc ^^^
I've lived this, I gave up my career cause at the time my wife's needed someone to stay home.... She has done well, but she contently attacks me for doing something for her and us.... The man stereotype is real, and there are many who hold it high.... But I agree keep your feelings to yourself.
I don't think feelings should go consciously unacknowledged, but yes, they need to be repressed. Women don't understand what's going on inside us.
And what little you say about your relationship makes me think you divorce your wife. My mom made more than my dad most of my life, and she didn't give him any grief over it.
@@JohnSmith-wx9wj repressing your feelings is a must for us. I mean it's obvious that your wife is gonna hate you if you tell her that part of the troubles you have is because she injured your pride as a breadwinner. So what else can we do other than to hide it and make sure no one else finds out? Opening up just tends to bring unnecessary trouble anyways.
@@stephenlee3406 It's not only this kind of case either. I hate to sound corny, but we have to repress ourselves to be civil for the same reason Star Trek Vulcans do. If your wife is struggling at work because of some office b****, your first instinct is to strangle her. But, you know consciously that strangling people that bother your wife will not lead to positive outcomes in most situations. Over many years of growing up and practice we learn a level of emotional tranquillity that let us be more rational creatures.
@@JohnSmith-wx9wj its stoicism and its being attacked and stripped away from men every year more and more
The message of the video was not that men should keep their feelings to themselves, it's that when you try to change someone, you need to realize that it will not make them perfect. I do not think things would've gone better had Frank kept his emotions bottled up. I DO think things would've gone better had Sue been more tolerant and patient of Frank's revelation.
It's very important for everyone, men included, to find some way to express their emotions. However, I acknowledge the potential consequences of doing so openly, especially for men.
Bro I have been listening to your videos for like 2 hours now and a lot of what you say hits close to home my dude. Thanks for that real shit man.
I think most men can relate to this
This man isn't just entertaining. He's doing the community a service speaking truth.
My father taught me to express my feelings because he didn't have that option yet because he didn't normally i adapted that burden i genuinely do try to show love and affection as often as possible but when faced with failures loss or depression i do as he did lock it all down if anyone sees you weak they'll be less likely to call upon you when in need or they'll worry it's stupid i know it's wrong but it's like it's engrained into who i am
My husband struggled so much with his emotions that it almost ended our marriage. One thing to remember is that your spouse is not your therapist. They will not react with empathy and reason to everything that you have to dig through to fix things. Change is hard and some things are painful. Both parties have to understand that it will be hard to get through and you may not get through it together. Love and marriage are choices and, at times, out choices are toxic and we need to call it quits. Not to say that people can't work through as individuals and as a couple, but it is a marathon and not everyone can or wants to run it.
This sounds similar to how my dad was and the problems him and my mom were going through. It's sad that we couldn't did deep and find the solutions to make everything better. However, it is nice to imagine what he would've thought if we sat down and watched this together.
You know how a man changes for the best or for the worst?
When the man meets
The
Woman.
It's in The Bible, too. Adam creates Eve, and she fucks it up for the both of them.
@@funkyweapon1981 Adam did have a big part on that
Didnt even know this show existed. What caught my attention right away is Frank sounds like Bill Burr
That's because it is Bill Burr!
I’ve been looking forward to this analysis. And I agree entirely. Frank does so much, but more than that has had to put up with so much just to get some sanity. He deserves the world.
When did they make a season 3 of this show? I loved the first 2 seasons but in my general groups the show just went quiet.
Crystal Keyblade It came out over the summer I believe.
A nintendo switch ad came up right at the "a job where your doing better then me" perfect timing lol 😆 🤣
This might just be the best channel for critical analysis I’ve come across. Great content!
Great vid! I'm glad you dug deep into the episode instead of just blindly praising it.
Dam cant believe it's been a year since I last saw this. Good stuff
I know it's four years late but you're smart I appreciate you.
Thing about a man revealing his insecurities is that people see them as weak for doing it. Some even exploit those men. That's why I dont do it.
F is for Family is a great commentary on American families, especially for the time period, but I always thought it was way too dark. Like Family Guy is dark, but in an absurdist way. That stuff doesn't happen irl (or at least it's subject matter is severely misrepresented). F is for Family has real problems that many folks go through and there just never really seems to be any real solution. It just kinda keeps going. I watched like 3 seasons (because my husband liked it) before realizing that, while I'm not opposed to real world problems in adult animation, and I love a more nuanced story, I just simply don't like that there is no happy ending. This family will always be abusive to one another, and no one ever really learns any lesson even though they pretend like they do. That's probably intentional, just not for me I suppose.