Nanlux 2400B vs ARRI M40 and M18... a Shoot Out!
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Meet The Gaffer #328. Let's compare the Nanlux 2400B+ with both the ARRI M18 and M40!
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:11 M18 Metering
5:12 M40 Metering
8:16 M40 Shadow Quality
9:06 2400B+ Metering
9:19 EUREKA Moment
10:48 Constant Mode Correction
11:54 Intensifiers or Reflectors?
12:50 2400B+ Shadow
13:33 2400B+ Color Reading
14:20 Power Distro for 2400B+
18:49 Shane's Reaction
20:45 Sans Intensifier
22:03 Chart
22:15 Wrap Up
23:35 Post Roll: Crank Up Stands
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Just got mine in yesterday and did some tinkering- I'm totally blown away. I'm picking up a M40 next week to do some tests for myself. Thank you for all your insights!
Thanks, Luke ! The LED tech is so good these days! I use Nanlite lamps, actually the forza 60 is the most used lamp - for the size and the power output on 2x Sony batteries… makes my life so much easier when on run and gun jobs.
You make my pockets sing “send out the money” when I see this new lamp!
As a matter of fact, here in Europe, not all houses or apartments have a 20A breaker circuit. Most of the time it's 16A in 230V, and for specific rooms, like garage or laundry there are 20A circuits, and in some cases, like big washing machine or kitchen oven or ceramic plate ; 32A mono (still regular 230V phase-neutral circuit).
Also the general breaker on top of the specific circuit breaker is always 32A, typically mono but also can be three phase, and at times 63A (commonly three phase + neutral at 400V, but 63A fat mono installations does exist in some places ).
Then for anything other then household, there's a bunch of three phase breaker with differential ; lots of 63A, some 90A and 100A, and a few 125A. Then in industries or big work place, the sky is the limit, can hook-up to a 600A 400V power breaker.
However the good thing is that our plugs are rated for 20A no matter what, you can either wire them with 1,5mm² copper (16A) or 2,5mm² copper wires (20A).
Can't wait for some in depth test with more intensifiers and fresnel !
Love your TESTS. Your a Champion !!
Jeez the future is here! This feels a lot like the “digital vs film” debate where it’s “close enough to not care about the difference given the host of benefits that come with.” 😊
💯
Thanks for the really practical information.
Hey guys, thanks for this. Great info.
Luke, we just got a demo 2400B+ graciously loaned from Mark Bender and Nanlux to test. The owner of the shop (we didn't do side by side) was skeptical that the Nanlux was even close upon striking it to the M40. That said the spec sheet best case scenario for the Arri at flood (52*) is 650 FC @ 20'. I ran the Nanlux at 80% on Edison at got 615FC @20'. All were at 5500/5600K with supplied (medium dish). Of course the new "dishes" will be fantastic but the Fresnel soon to come will put the FC up from 650 as well. Great stuff thanks for the in depth comparison.
Thanks Luke super informative!
Thanks to Allan and Shane too!
Nice results
You should call the reflectors "dog cones."
Super cool and informative to see this comparison. Kinda a massive turning point for lighting in general.
It’s pretty wild. I thought for sure the most we could expect was an M25 equivalent🤪
I've heard Dish and Cone
Great. Thx all. Amazing.
If you tin the ends of the copper on your stinger you will almost eliminate the plug frying issue. The internals of a hardware store 20A vs a 15A edison are the same.
Game-breaker. Full power on regular 16A here in Europe. And any number of them at 90% plugged in 10A circuit.
LET THE BATTLE BEGIN 🔥🔥🔥🔥💡💡💡💡
I guess maybe this should had been called " 3 Gaffers and a meter " ;)
haha… my light meter collecting a lotta dust nowadays..
Nice job, Luke, that was very helpful. I wasn't expecting the 45 to produce the same width of beam as the flooded 4K and with the same output. Insane. When will you get your hands on the fresnel to test?
Not sure when the fresnel will be rolled out🤷🏼
Luke why dont you guys use Hospital grade 15A plug to run M18 or the nanlux? Thats what we use in Canada and its actually rated for 20A and we rarely have to replace those
Have always wondered about this and will need to check it out. Thanks!
I pulled the 15A plugs and replaced them with flat blades on my HMIs so nobody would put an 1800 into a 15A outlet; I just carry adapters in case we're stuck and can use dimming to make sure we don't blow a breaker. So often M18s would blow a circuit in houses because they weren't running 12/3.
With the M series often the sharpness of the shadow can vary across the field.
When will you test throw across different distances? Something I suspect is inherently advantageous with a bulbed light in a faceted reflector over a flat lensed cob pushing light into a conical reflector is the throw from that bulb. I'm betting the M18 starts clawing back gains at distances further than 3 or 4M....but I'm wrong a lot.
I think that’s where you need to go back to the manufacturer’s information as they tend to provide longer distances.
Nice comparison. How much noise does the light make compared to 1200 watt models?
I’ve only had the unit out for these two episodes so far, but the fan noise has not called attention to itself… which I think bodes well. Have yet to burn the unit on a quiet set.
Hmm, important question… we were too busy on the day for a careful evaluation. That said, it did not pop out as super noticeable. Like the Nanlux 1200B only had complaints from fussy sound department… perhaps they are resigned to us torturing them with fan noise… tolerance for it has grown on set. And bigger lights typically much farther away.
I have a question that relates to 16:45 in the video about power distro. Lets say you run this off the 20 amp outlet inside a house and you run extensions around to the side of the house where you place the light shooting through a window. Can the distance of the extensions effect the power draw? Alan said 95% intensity was around 19 amps or something, if you run that extension far enough away would you need to drop that intensity down to say 80%? Im not an electrician im an owner operator dp and want to know my limits. Its more likely that I will be doing some low budget shoot in the future at someones house with this as a biglight instead of an m40 and knowing the boundaries would help me make decisions. Thanks!
This won’t be a very satisfying answer. I don’t know what the differential of percent power should be for line loss. Others may be better versed in line-loss issues. Present day LEDs like the 2400B are able to run on a pretty wide range of voltage. If you run a hundred feet of extension using regular 12/3 cable, even with 15A Edison plugs from a home getting their power from the county’s electricity provider, you should be within tolerances. I believe the head will tell you your wattage if you’re using the switched power lead. I need to double check this though. Yes, your amps could go up as your voltage goes down, and unlike with a genny you can’t just turn up your voltage, but unless you’re running hundreds of feet you should be OK. And you could consider running off a 3K genny instead to keep the power source closer. The main thing is to have good, internally tightened stingers because loose connectors is often where the heat builds up… like with M18’s.
@@meetthegaffer I think thats still a great answer! I started off as a 1 man band and having these conversations is hugely important to help me fade into the film workforce. Thank you for responding! Also great videos, truly a wealth of knowledge thats hard to find sifting through all the youtube "cinema"
what distance? would you run a test of having both at 200ft night time?
I probably won’t get to a test like that very soon, but Shane may have an opportunity to show both units working together on an upcoming show. We’ll be seeing a lot of media about these units in the next coming months🙂
Great job, thanks!
Not sure if this has GaN but if it doesn’t, a model with that, Nanlux branded or not, and thus being potentially more power efficient (target 10 or 13 amps?) and smaller, lighter but for the same output would be killer. Right now the whole switching thing just makes the product confusing to use. It isn’t intuitive even to three guys with years of experience between them and are pretty up to date with the LED stuff.
Maybe another term could be “gatherer” since it’s really just gathering the output. A working short hand term could be “45 Gather” or “45 Gat” for a 45 degree reflector. “Intensifier” works well too but it does give an implied meaning that the modifier is multiplying or adding to the output in itself, which it technically isn’t since the modifier doesn’t emit light; you don’t get more light output, just that it’s gathered, concentrated. Maybe just a bit misleading for the uninitiated or newer user.
The intensifier is a method of focusing intensity differently than a fresnel, but like a fresnel the beam angle changes and the intensity grows, therefore calling it an “intensifier” is appropriate.
Hmmm. Seems that the difference in beam spread is different enough to make a night X want the M40. One light on a house (far background perhaps with no condor) wants a wide spread and the 45 degree intensifier won't allow that. Sound right Luke?
At this point only one intensifier has been released. It remains to be seen what else will become available, but I would assume wider and tighter, along with a fresnel. The beam angle we measured to a 1 stop drop off was quite similar between the two units, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t further illumination beyond that. Deep in a field either unit will have some spread, and could be widened with some light diffusion as well. We just need to get out there and play😀
The biggest drawback I see in ever larger LED mono lights is the absurd size of fresnels necessary to maximize beam optics. The 2400 will require its own case and the whole thing will weigh so much more than a M40, just heading it up will be a pain. That said, the Nanlux seems like a biggish deal @@meetthegaffer
It’s a game changer if you appreciate control speed and power draw savings. It opens up new levels of flexibility. We’ll see what pluses and minuses arrive with a fresnel. Previous COB’d fresnels have surprisingly more output as compared to the same lensed HMI’s. Is the quality of the fresnel different? Sure. Everything is a compromise of some sort. More tools to play with😀
Yeah a fresnel if designed properly should increase output with more efficient light gathering than the faceted reflectors, and honestly I much prefer a fresnel/M18 typefaced and focusable lens. And let's face it, the color is a huge draw. If it was only available as daylight my interest would be tempered. Used M18s going for $6-7k are a strong pull.@@meetthegaffer
what generator would you recommend to power two of these 2400B's?
Two 3000 watt, a 6500 or 7K putt-putt Honda. And with the larger putt-putt you may be able to run it in 220V mode with proper cabling. If you don’t need them to run that long you could run them individually off power stations that can handle the load.
@@meetthegaffer thanks for the response. would be running them all day outside -- daylight through the windows. if running all day would you recommend the 7K Honda?
Yes.
I'd like to know the price point comparison.
If bought new, an M40 would be roughly 3x the price.
couldn't you tether an eco flow batt to a 15amp circuit ? 15amps would charge the eco flow, and you wouldn't have to worry about popping anything?
Not sure how you’re configuring that set-up.
It’s an led world now. It’s probably only a matter of time before we get an m90 equivalent
Yup. That seems like quite leap, but there’s no doubt we’ll get there🙂 I could use a bi-color unit of that size in two weeks, but that probably won’t happen. Meanwhile, I’m looking forward to incorporating the 2400B+ in place of the more power hungry M40.
Good luck with that
They have the LEDs, problem is cooling them with the present affordable cooling solution it would be heavier than an m90 or required a separated liquid called radiator.
@@gaffergear HMM! you've just killed future sales for M90's. You guys are so respected across the industry, I bet you Godox and Nanlux CEOs just sent the R&D team on a trip to Bali and not to return until they have an M90 equivalent, with a ballast the size of the 2400B. What great time to be a young gaffer.
24:35 refering to the panel stand - what unit is that exactly?
Hi Ulrich! Alan was referring to the Matthews Panel stand.
products.msegrip.com/products/the-panel-stand
I always carry two panel stands and two mini-vator II’s on the truck to keep those larger heads and menace arms on wheels😀
Do you see the mini-vator superior to other "classic" windup stand? Matthews is very price overseas (germany) - so always struggling with grip/light support manufacturers vs prices...
It depends what you mean by classic wind up stands because we don’t generally see Manfrotto/Avenger? or Kupo stands over here. It’s difficult to compare with experience of only one side of the equation. The next step up would be Roadrunner stands from American Grip, but that’s in another price bracket… or as my Canadian brother in law says, snack bracket😀
@ulrichmors574 The panel stand and mini-vator II are still wire driven stands and are not perfect, but they store compactly and work well for that mid level duty payload just under 100 lb/45 kg. The panel stand does not have support struts like the mini-vator so you need to operate it more aware of tipping hazards.
Part of why I like the Panel stands so much is the price to performance ratio... for a $1000 it cranks up lights up to 90-100 lbs. Certainly all the Crank-o-vators and Roadrunners are beefier and carry more, but are gigantically larger. I can carry two Panel stands on the front of a cart...albeit a little modification with the American blue spacers you see on overhead stands stuck into one of the upper bolts.
Shout out to every Arri HMI owner who doesn’t get tempted by these kinds of compassion and for your infos we’re not getting rid them ARRI will always remain ARRI 🙌😄
Lol, what part of the comparison do you think is skeptical? 1 light with dimming replaces, 4k fresnel, 2.5K HMI, M18, joker 1600, 1.k, M8. Which means you can skip buying a Nanlux 1200B, 12k tungsten, 10k tungsten, 5K, 2k blond. The dimming capabilities and Green & Magenta covers all those lights. Four of these lights either bounced or pushed through diffusion should give you the equivalent of a 12k HMI fresnel for less than the price of 1 M90
Change is not for everyone. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. For me, I’ve always sub-rented a 4K and a putt-putt when I needed one. Now I can have that same output using the 3K genny I already own. That’s good news.
Agreed, if you already have a trusted routine with HMI’s no need to change it. There are still a few bounce and defused light tests I would like to see btwn the M40 and 2400B. Like on a small independent film shoot if the output is powerful enough to bounce light a very large area at night. And if it’s powerful enough to be diffused through a large 1/2 silk to provide constant daylight on a cloudy day. Typical M40 scenarios. It’s just amazing the number of fixtures you can buy for the price of one M40 w EB
If you truly love your Arri M series,, people will be sending them cheap to pay for new LEDs. So this could be a good opportunity to expand your inventory of Arri
@@gaffergear that’s what I’ve been doing for almost 3years now I’ve been getting some Mseries for a ridiculous price that’s why these comparisons RUclipsr are very helpful
5:45 Power Distribution: So. confusing to us (Europe) - I would be totally overstrained with a mid-size (powerwise) light setup in US ;-) Wouldn´t know all the parts.
Here in general we find several 16A (230V) outlets to run everything - otherwise generator needed. Sounds too easy sometimes...
We envy you!
@@meetthegaffer too easy for amateurs to light a set here... see it this way , too ;-I
Thanks for all your work to make this channel - always inspiring
You know the world use LUX
Your mic is not on
The stick mic was the problem😉
nobody asked the moth what it thinks
LOL
Shouldn't be 50%, should be 90% better output. with LED.
Sorry, nothing matches a fresnel! And yes, I do care that the shadow edges are not clean on the m18, m40 and the 2400b. I’ll take a bigger fresnel any day. Real life, the 2400 is not equal to a m40!
Let me clarify, HMI fresnel. I’m not a fan of the COB fresnels. It’s almost as bad as a fresnel on a HMI par.
Yup, it all depends what your DP wants, what the production can afford, what kind of immediate control is required including cues, and the personnel you have on your team.