This is totally something I’d like to have around my house so everyone has a key to their own room and different levels of access to shared entrance ways such as garage, basement, office or playroom. I need a friend to help me with this project 😁
I'm not really sure what you were trying to demonstrate here, but I hope that you would never put a lock pinned like that into service. For a start, all those 0.024" master wafers are likely to slip & jam up the lock, especially with a Kwikset, which is not manufactured to tight tolerances. Secondly, that cylinder will now open with literally hundreds of different keys, not just the 7 that you have there. You could open that cylinder with a sneeze... And finally, even if you just pin a cylinder to work with a master key and a single change key, you could still find at least 7 other keys that would open that cylinder. This is usually called cross-keying. Let me demonstrate. Let's say you have a MK with bitting 2,3,5,4,2 and a CK with bitting 5,6,2,6,4, and you pinned up your cylinder to work with both keys, then that same cylinder, without any further modification, could also be opened with the following keys: (2,6,5,6,2) (5,3,2,4,4) (2,3,5,6,4) (5,6,2,4,2) (2,3,5,6,2) (5,3,5,4,4) (2,6,2,6,2) There are more, but you get my point. You don't have to put all those "1" master wafers in there to get a cylinder that will work with 7 different keys.
Hey. It was for fun. Lighten up. 6 minute mark explains this was just for demonstration. I'll sleep better knowing you know how to master key a lock the correct way. As do I.
Oh, okay, sorry. I thought you were trying to show people how to pin a cylinder for a master key system. My mistake. I guess I should go and watch part 1.
Man I'm sorry. You're good. My fault fo being an ass. John Doe's comment below pissed me off and I took it out on you. Please disregard my previous comment about lightening up. Appreciate the follow.
+Lockman37 No problem. I just re-read my comment and I did come off sounding like a bit of a know-it-all... Sorry about that. Truth is, I got to about 4:25 in the video, and my reaction was "He's got to be joking!" I should've watched it to the end before commenting. Would've saved me some typing... :-)
Great demonstration on how to do it and great explanation by Cryptopolis on why it defeats all the security of the lock. I am working in a hospital right now and they have at least 3, maybe more keys that work in every lock. I bet they spent a lot of money on all the locks and for the person to pin them all that way but while I am installing electronic locks/strikes, I am very easily raking the locks open instead of wasting security's time to come unlock a door for me.
Let's do the math. This looks like a system with 5 pins, each having one of 6 positions. That means 6^5 or 7776 possible different keys.I'm going to just count the positions that will *not* open the lock.Pin 1: 5Pin 2: 1, 2Pin 3: 2Pin 4: 2,3,6Pin 5: 3,4That means the total percentage of possible keys for this particular keyway that will not open the lock is going to be 3/6*(1+2/6*(1+2/6*(1+1/6*(1+1/6))))*100% = 73.3 percent, almost exactly. Out of keys with that exact keyway.So to be sure, not all that secure - but a random key is still more likely to not operate than to do so.
Your straight math is good, but, there are many keys that are never cut by the manufacturer, 11111, 22222, 33333, 44444, 55555, 66666, 77777, 123456, 123457, 123445, etc, so the chances of a random cut key not working are closer to 60% simply because a lot of the ones that would not work would never be cut in the first place so would not be part of the random sample of keys available to test. Those specific keys SHOULD not exist, but if they did, some of them would work this lock but most of the restricted patterns would not. 560 different cut keys would work this lock, but again some of them are on the restricted list.
For me I just did not fully understand how to get the top keys or the master something about the lowest number, I would like to understand how this part should work to get the top code.
Turrauk, The chance of a random key tirming it is slim. But wiggling and maneuvering the random key, it might open... Thanks for the question! Thanks for the sub, and thanks for watching!
Thanks for the videos. I am a facilities maintenance man, who, after years of installing/adjusting/repairing locksets and deadbolts, and getting some basic training from a friend and locksmith who keyed my properties and who recently passed, am self-training myself to do the piece I avoided for so long: generate keys and pin locks. My question: Would the example you outline in the above video be appropriate for a Master-Submaster-Operating keyed cylinder? Or is this not advisable? As I examine the system, (I of course have the master code) it appears to have been keyed either in the partial-rotational or full-rotational constant format. The sytem is a Schlage-based 6-pin system (I say Schlage-based because there are many Schlage copycat imports that were installed previous to my tenure, and a few 300$ Schlage security grade handsets).Thanks again
looked at his paper and in 5 seconds or less i knew this guy could NOT be a locksmith... No locksmith would do this. No Locksmith key like this or would Demonstrate it like this.
This is totally something I’d like to have around my house so everyone has a key to their own room and different levels of access to shared entrance ways such as garage, basement, office or playroom. I need a friend to help me with this project 😁
Please read my comment at the top.
@@thekeywizard3313 I was just watching these videos for ideas but I don’t have any locks to play with at the moment.
I'm not really sure what you were trying to demonstrate here, but I hope that you would never put a lock pinned like that into service.
For a start, all those 0.024" master wafers are likely to slip & jam up the lock, especially with a Kwikset, which is not manufactured to tight tolerances.
Secondly, that cylinder will now open with literally hundreds of different keys, not just the 7 that you have there. You could open that cylinder with a sneeze...
And finally, even if you just pin a cylinder to work with a master key and a single change key, you could still find at least 7 other keys that would open that cylinder. This is usually called cross-keying.
Let me demonstrate. Let's say you have a MK with bitting 2,3,5,4,2 and a CK with bitting 5,6,2,6,4, and you pinned up your cylinder to work with both keys, then that same cylinder, without any further modification, could also be opened with the following keys:
(2,6,5,6,2)
(5,3,2,4,4)
(2,3,5,6,4)
(5,6,2,4,2)
(2,3,5,6,2)
(5,3,5,4,4)
(2,6,2,6,2)
There are more, but you get my point. You don't have to put all those "1" master wafers in there to get a cylinder that will work with 7 different keys.
Hey. It was for fun. Lighten up. 6 minute mark explains this was just for demonstration.
I'll sleep better knowing you know how to master key a lock the correct way. As do I.
Oh, okay, sorry. I thought you were trying to show people how to pin a cylinder for a master key system. My mistake. I guess I should go and watch part 1.
Man I'm sorry. You're good. My fault fo being an ass. John Doe's comment below pissed me off and I took it out on you. Please disregard my previous comment about lightening up. Appreciate the follow.
+Lockman37 No problem. I just re-read my comment and I did come off sounding like a bit of a know-it-all... Sorry about that.
Truth is, I got to about 4:25 in the video, and my reaction was "He's got to be joking!" I should've watched it to the end before commenting. Would've saved me some typing... :-)
Great demonstration on how to do it and great explanation by Cryptopolis on why it defeats all the security of the lock.
I am working in a hospital right now and they have at least 3, maybe more keys that work in every lock. I bet they spent a lot of money on all the locks and for the person to pin them all that way but while I am installing electronic locks/strikes, I am very easily raking the locks open instead of wasting security's time to come unlock a door for me.
Let's do the math. This looks like a system with 5 pins, each having one of 6 positions. That means 6^5 or 7776 possible different keys.I'm going to just count the positions that will *not* open the lock.Pin 1: 5Pin 2: 1, 2Pin 3: 2Pin 4: 2,3,6Pin 5: 3,4That means the total percentage of possible keys for this particular keyway that will not open the lock is going to be 3/6*(1+2/6*(1+2/6*(1+1/6*(1+1/6))))*100% = 73.3 percent, almost exactly. Out of keys with that exact keyway.So to be sure, not all that secure - but a random key is still more likely to not operate than to do so.
Your straight math is good, but, there are many keys that are never cut by the manufacturer, 11111, 22222, 33333, 44444, 55555, 66666, 77777, 123456, 123457, 123445, etc, so the chances of a random cut key not working are closer to 60% simply because a lot of the ones that would not work would never be cut in the first place so would not be part of the random sample of keys available to test. Those specific keys SHOULD not exist, but if they did, some of them would work this lock but most of the restricted patterns would not. 560 different cut keys would work this lock, but again some of them are on the restricted list.
@@thekeywizard3313 fair point well made but I’ll have to rewatch the video to find out what this was about :)
For me I just did not fully understand how to get the top keys or the master something about the lowest number, I would like to understand how this part should work to get the top code.
Thanks for watching JD!
Turrauk, The chance of a random key tirming it is slim. But wiggling and maneuvering the random key, it might open... Thanks for the question! Thanks for the sub, and thanks for watching!
Good video
I like it 👍
Very helpful! Thank you!
For example;
54846
65632
18152
Which could be the Master and Top?
Question is, even without picks, how likely is it that a random key will open the lock?
560 different keys will open his lock.
so you just lay each master pin on top of the bottom pin? wont they fall over having there be so many pins on top of each other? thanks
Thanks for the videos. I am a facilities maintenance man, who, after years of installing/adjusting/repairing locksets and deadbolts, and getting some basic training from a friend and locksmith who keyed my properties and who recently passed, am self-training myself to do the piece I avoided for so long: generate keys and pin locks. My question: Would the example you outline in the above video be appropriate for a Master-Submaster-Operating keyed cylinder? Or is this not advisable? As I examine the system, (I of course have the master code) it appears to have been keyed either in the partial-rotational or full-rotational constant format. The sytem is a Schlage-based 6-pin system (I say Schlage-based because there are many Schlage copycat imports that were installed previous to my tenure, and a few 300$ Schlage security grade handsets).Thanks again
I sure hope you didn’t follow any of this
Hopefully you did not follow this particular video for pinning your locks.
Where is part 1?
I would say no more than two keys for seruity. If more where needed I wouls ad a lock, so more than one key may be needed to get access to a location
I Gotta figure how to do this better for work
Happens when u run out of blank keys and all u got are keys cut differently. And u got to finish the job lol
Mason keyed
So you are creating 7 shear lines
560 shear lines.
Bhai Hama kharedana h
When he had trouble counting how many keys he had, I had to stop.
looked at his paper and in 5 seconds or less i knew this guy could NOT be a locksmith... No locksmith would do this. No Locksmith key like this or would Demonstrate it like this.