One Of MANY Solutions To The Fake Role Issue In ESO!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- #elderscrollsonline #esofam #mmorpg
Thank you so much for watching! If you'd like to support the channel even FURTHER, remember to hit that "Thanks" button under the video! Much appreciated :D Remember to like (helps w/ the YT algorithm big time!) and subscribe for more ESO content like this! Please comment below if you have any suggestions, questions or concerns! :) 
Игры
They should also split random DLC and random base game, then give better reward for DLC, otherwise people will just leave right at the door cause they just don't want to bother with a DLC dungeon.
The fact that anybody ever thought Normal and Veteran should have the exact same reward is actually quite amazing.
In my experience as long as the person 'faking' a role knows what they're doing, it's fine. At least for normal random queues. When I fake tank, I bring a taunt and some armor boosting skills, but stay in my DPS gear. My job is tank though and I make sure mobs are in good positions and bosses are looking at me. I also bring self heals, cause I expect the healer ro be just as fake as me and I don't get angry if they are.
Where it's a problem is when a low armor low up character without a taunt or heal queues outside their role and just mash their rotation while the team is dying or panicking around them.
Yea agreed
Many fake tanks don't know what they do, though. Many don't even bother to have a taunt and many that do, have no idea about basic tanking concepts like turning the boss away from the group.
Then you’re not fake. I have several healers that are basically DDs with a resto staff back bar. Fake is the Russian streak-sorc who just run off.
I think some other ideas that might help would be something like adding 50% more crystals for no death. That might incentives experienced players to help beginners through the dungeon rather than just dragging them through it.
That’s a super cool idea!
imo not working, some people would just leave instant when someone dead lols.
Transmute crystals should just be infinite like most currencies.
I agree. I can see from a business perspective why limiting event tickets is done (to induce fomo - not that I agree with it), but I’ve never understood the cap for transmutes. Seems silly and also seems like an easier solution for storage on the server side than having people stockpile a million rewards of the worthy containers and geodes lol
@@Cooperharley0204 Storage? It is literally just a number. You need no cap in order to save storage. They probaby use petabytes of storage and some digits doesn't make a difference.
If you make the rewards better for veteran dungeons, you will have more fake roles and substandard players in veteran dungeons. It's bad enough now with the fake roles and CP200 players trying to do the hard modes in vet DLC dungeons despite not knowing the mechanics because they want the 4 keys.
Also, the transmute limit isn't a problem, it's the lack of alternative things to spend it on. If you could buy things using transmutes that were not account bound (like motifs on the Undaunted shoulder piece vendors) then no one would worry about the cap.
I currently have about 60+ Cyrodiil Campaign coffers (50 transmutes each) and nothing to spend on.
I agree, but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. You’ll always have newer players queueing for harder content than they should. It’s part of an MMO, but the issue here is multi faceted obviously. There’s a huge number of things that need to happen including proper combat tutorials to teach players more about the game than simply roll dodging and interrupting.
BUT, that doesn’t mean veteran content shouldn’t be more rewarding than normal. What’s the point otherwise? Challenge isn’t enough, purple gear versus blue gear doesn’t matter and you get the monster masks now with curation after one or two runs if your group gives them to you.
The other thing is, I absolutely agree with your transmute comment. I still believe there shouldn’t be a cap, or that it should be raised by quite a bit, but alternate things to spend them on is a great idea. Imagine a sticker book for furnishings for housing or something for those people where after you make a piece of furniture once, you can use transmutes to make it again? Or a special vendor with mounts and cosmetics where the currency is transmutes.
The video is called one of many solutions because this absolutely isn’t the end all be all solution for the problem, but I think it’s a step in the right direction and anything is better than where we are now with the problem 👍🏻 we haven’t done anything about it for 6-7+ years. It’s about time to do so imo
For the normal dungeons there is already one tool. In the new group finder people who are willing to go 4dd groups for rnd could and should just write that that is the plan. Everyone signing would know and be fine with fake tanking and rushing for the daily reward. Then the actual dungeon finder would be for more conventional and maybe newer players. Typing this might be annoying for people so maybe ZoS would add button for "Freestyle" groups, players with any role would be added and still get the daily bonus.
Idea for random vets, if you finish the dungeon in role you queued, you receive also bound item linked to that role. Let's say you played as tank you'd receive mark of tank. Then they could be something like mark of fighter and mark of healer for other roles. Then ZoS could add new vendor to the Undaunted encampments, the Undaunted grand-champion who would sell coffers for these marks, let's say 5 marks per coffer. In the coffer could be random undaunted loot but also guaranteed usable timed item that would give bonus that stacks with xp scrolls and foods. Strength and duration of duration could vary like with the xp scrolls.
Tank coffer could give Banner of vanguard which when used would for half hour when in dungeons or trials if player has tank ability in either bar their damage done would be reduced 3% but damage taken would be reduced 3%. Cost of block is reduced some number.
Fighter's coffer could give Banner of fighter, in dungeons or trials, damage done is increased 3% when not taking damage. (Kinda want to add if taking damage, damage done is decreased, but I dunno).
Healer's is of course healing done increase in dungeon and trials.
These bonuses and numbers are on top of my head and arbitrary, so of course actual balance would need some deep thinking. Maybe the bonuses should be static +/- 5 or maybe they should go 3/5/7 or something. But my point being that it would be something that is not necessarily needed for the content but it would reward and reinforce playing the role in the group. Also it would go with the idea of progression, that players start with normal dungeons, move to vets and then maybe trials and vet trials. But at same time, depending what the actual bonuses would be, it could open ways to test out even wilder play styles. Maybe you could use that set while the bonus is on instead of that or something.
I agree, when I first started I could never get anyone to slow down to learn anything.
Good ol' Lazy Oaken HA build with Inner Fire + Blood Altar solved the ick for me mostly (for nRND). Tank Heal DD all in one.
Love your wood elf’s look btw!
Thanks :D
Im a support player in ESO and I love to heal and practice new loadouts, as well as understanding my rotations in content. I usually do a RVD just to better hone my skills, but when i get “fake dps” in my RVD i really question why i even bother
Thanks for content! Love the idea of someone in the content creator community actually acknowledging the problem rather than going "lolz, learn to play." More so, I love that you actually put forth a suggestion for resolving the matter. I mean, I don't know what the right answer is in all honest. The truth is that the issue may just be a drawback to "play as you want" mindset from the developers. You know, if you want to play like a bothersome self absorbed player with no regard with anyone other than yourself... I guess you get to do that in the "play as you want" mindset. Again, thanks for the content.
we should be able to pick available roles to queue for teammates instead of just ourselves, then if you want to have 4 dps, you can, and people will naturally select the correct roles more often
I'm with you the rewards are basically the same as you stated. It would also be great if say DLC Graven Deep rewards were better than just getting increased transmute stones and XP because let's just say it that dungeon is extremely mech heavy so going into it on a random scares most into departing before fighting anything 😂
Its crazy that this game is 10 years old and they still haven't addressed this.
probably a silly idea/suggestion, but in the armory where we can swap our builds between one another, why not have its role hardlocked on a cooldown, so that a lazy damage dealer doesnt simply swap from damage to tank on the fly- and must go through some hurdles first to swap it, so that dungeons/builds need abit more planning in advance, not just 'oh i cba waiting another 5 minutes so i will swap role rn' then ontop of that make it so swapping role is on a 30 minute cooldown, or even 24 hours, anything to make it so people will choose a way to use their current build/champion poiints and stick to it, rather than lie or change whenever they feel, without changing stats or gear- yes it wouldnt stop u swapping from one build to another and changing gear, but its more effort if you do actually use the armory to seperate ur builds, only problem is we get 2 and not 3 slots by default
I don’t mind dps queuing as tanks/healers for daily normal dungeons because it’s easy as hell anyway, but undaunted pledges on vet they should stick to their roles
From ZoS: Role check needs more than a box checked. For tank: 30k health and 5 pieces of Heavy and a taunt, healer 3 skills that heal group, dps: 5 skills that do damage over time.
From Us in the meantime: Keep Orc ally handy for when it is to switch to support spec. Sometimes you have your be the role you want to see. Not perfect but it had been good on final bosses for dailies. Lastly: There needs to be a group check for “Unorthodox Config” for people who want to willingly do 3 DPS 1 Support or RP runs.
5 DoT skills? Trying to limit dungeon queues to Necromancer or something? 😂😂😂
I think I have 1, maybe 2 on my sorc build (depending on if you consider Haunting Curse a dot).
If anything the DPS should have a dot, an AoE, and a spammable to cover most classes.
@@derpy_mushroom531 lol I hear you but have you ever done a dungeon and seen that the dps only use arrow spray and stampede? It’s a start that would show that dungeons cannot be Skyrim. Not perfect but better than nothing.
They should only give transmutes for the vet dungeons. If you're below CP160 you have no use for transmutes and running normal is fine for those players.
It’s the same thing as the shopping cart problem… it’s a system that relies on the integrity of a human being to work properly. The problem is, people are horrible and should never be left to their own devices because they will choose self over anyone else and ruin everything. Guardrails must be in place.
man normal content is just faster with 4 dds than a tank and heal,so in vet they can set up maybe a vigour check,like 40k above hp only for tank,the issue comes with heal as therr is not any real way to check
Yea I don’t personally mind a lack of checks as long as there is proper incentivization to keep things in check. Currently there’s neither and that’s the issue
Just make a role queue and an all queue. As a DPS, I don't feel like waiting 30 fucking minutes to do a random normal that I'm going to finish in 2 minutes. Its not like random normals require all roles anyway
I wish ESO had what FF XIV had where player icons are above each player or beside their name indicating if they are a new player, returning player, veteran player.
It will help if I need to go fast or slow down as a tank doing massive pulls or small pulls.
I agree vet content needs more reasons to be played
I never run vet dungeons. I mainly pvp and buy helms at golden vendor.
Crushing blows which requires a real tank setup, you never saw fake tanks in WoW because that boss/elite would beat the everliving shit outta you unless you had a setup for it
Played on Xbox for years, just started PC after 5 year break. Love the PC graphics, do not like the lack of in-game Voice-chat. High level people rushing through the harder Normal dungeons is demoralizing, I cannot learn the mechanics. If you die, many of them just leave you until the fight is complete. Seems to be a lot really rude players in PC. One of the things I enjoyed most as a high level player was helping new players. My primary role was a healer and healing a low level player through a vet dungeon that might have been a little above their capabilities was more rewarding than getting a few transmute crystals or finishing a daily in five minutes or less. If you are playing ESO you obviously have some time on your hands.
Xbox will always have more newer players then pc.
Here’s how you solve the problem.
Don’t do dps, tank, healer at all. Go full destiny, balance and build the game for class fantasy, not mmo roles.
Now i feel guilty
Could you let me know what head hat that is?
It’s part of the river strid costume that came with gold road’s pre purchase
@@Cooperharley0204 thanks
As a veteran player, i don't do vet dungeons cuz I'm a stubborn git who refuses to adapt to pet sorc like all the builds want.😂 i don't have the DPS requirements.
But yeah, there are 2 forms of "fake tank" A tank which isn't buffing the group like they're meant to, and a DPS queuing as tank.
It's not hard to slot a taunt if you're tank queuing. I've done so mid dungeon to get it completed too
True
I play eso for 8 years and i only que up as fake tank because the que timer is so low. If they do not change the system i would never change my behaviour because other peopel abuse it and i don t wanna waste my time. An u are completly right i would never do vet for my daily because it take 10 min longer :) on 7 charackters we talk about an houer.
It depends on what you are queueing for. Random normals are fine but I think people should at least slot a taunt as a courtesy.
Easiest fix is to allow you to queue for groups with 4 dps, 1 tank and 3 dps, 1 healer and 3 dps, etc. because lets face it, virtually every normal dungeon doesn’t require really any support roles unfortunately
I play tank and healer on Xbox and PC. My healer and tank can do 25 to 30k dps easy. What I'm tired of is fake DPS. Just today had 3 heals ticking on the "TANK" plus burst heal ready. Tank stands in stupid, dies even with 20k burst heal because he will not get out the fire. Then he has the nerve to tell me "at least slot a heal if your going to Q as a healer. My back bar dots was dealing more damage than both DPS put together and then they started saying smart ass stuff. I said I can't heal stupid and do most of the DPS as well. See ya and I left logged out for the rest of the day. Plus the dungeon I can solo it by myself
I was queueing as a full fledge tank for norm rnd until I got few dungeons that were way too boring cos I had cp 2000 just light attacking and ofc my full tank didn't do any damage, after that I'm queueing w solo build+taunt so I control the adds and reduce resistances but I have enough dmg to solo the dungeon in good time, I'm just afraid of people reaction when the see a tank w 25k hp XD but I think that they relax once they see that my life doesnt go under 90% XD and all adds areunder control, is thatfake tanking? well I've seen worse 😅
Answered a call for help to vUG the other day as a dps. Got it, the healer was pretty good. The other dps was low 500CP and not bad, on a 1 bar. The tank... had a s&b but was using DK chains to taunt and ran from everything couldn't survive at all. They linked some random crafted gear and said they were trying to level the skill line. Why would you go into a VET random I have no idea.
Also, ever been in a pug trial with fake tanks? Shit sucks.
🤣🤣 oh boy sounds like a blast
Also, I have one time but they came in, died to the first mob and left 🤣
Any ideas on how to fix the fake dd problem?
I always wondered why the rewards are the same. That never made sense to me.
Changing the rewards alone might solve the problem, but I'm not completely sure, since there might be players that still want to run normal dungeons as fake tanks or ignore players that are there for the quests.
I think, this should still be combined with dedicated story queues, which is the much better way to bring players with that specific intention together than using the group finder, which is woefully underused, completely unnecessary and annoying overkill for a simple matchmaking like this, and poses a significant psychological barrier for fresh players.
As for vote kicks, yes, they have their place and they should obviously communicate the reason to the other two players, but these systems can be easily abused as well, so "punishments" like locking someone out from queuing again, is an issue. -- BTW: Why can't we re-queue after leaving a dungeon when tank and / or healer left? Are we supposed to sit in that dungeon forever? Matching two single dps is much more likely than matching two and anyone coming in for the daily after a boss has been killed will leave anyway because the quest won't complete.
I was actually in one of these normal runs yesterday: The fake tank ran through at lightning speed and the poor level 30 guy struggled trying to get his quest done.
The reason why I was in the random normal dungeon was that I didn't want to end up with a DLC dungeon and a group that sucked, which brings me to the last point: We need separate DLC queues, normal and veteran, especially with fake tanks and healers that immediately leave a veteran DLC dungeon.
Queueing for DLC dungeons should be a conscious choice not only because of the significant difficulty difference, but because nobody benefits if many players simply leave when they get one of now more than half of the dungeons available.
Sorry for the long reply...
I appreciate the long comment first of all! Never apologize for long comments because I enjoy reading them and talking to yall!
I absolutely agree though. I think another potential fix for this would be alternative queue options maybe like basically saying you’re okay with queuing into a group with 1 tank and 3 dps, or 4 dps, or 1 healer and 3 dps. I feel like this would drastically decrease the queue time for dps and help this issue. People would be more likely to queue for their actual role
The vote to kick option you talk about would be abused hard, so no that form should never be in the game.
The problem is that dps dungeon queues take forever. When you work and have a family you can't just wait all day for the queue. When you only have a few hours a day to play you want to get through your dailies and on to the content you enjoy so you fake heal or tank. I would never do it on vet . Never. But on normal I always wrote in group at beginning. I am a dd. If you need a healer I'll leave. I've never been kicked. Be transparent. I always slot a healing ability and keep an eye on teammates health bar so I don't see the problem as long as it's normal only
I main a tank.
It SUCKS sitting in queue for 15 to 20 minutes on my DPS, just trying to have a more laid bank run after tanking for the community all night (i solely pug too busy to commit to a guild) and hit a fake tank with no taunt.
So Ive taken on a stressful (but fun) role all night, did the right thing and DIDNT fake tank, and now end up tanking or dying on bosses and paying repairs because some DPS skipped the queue.
Legit, game quit moment. Already canceled ESO plus after finishing the scribing content. The community seems to support this behaviour too which is completely deflating.
We use to talk to each other now you can’t
It’s the same thing as the shopping cart problem… it’s a system that relies on the integrity of a human being to work properly. The problem is, people are horrible and should never be left to their own devices because they will choose self over anyone else and ruin everything. Guardrails must be in place.
My fix: stop allowing people to queue normal dungeons after they are over a certain CP level and up the veteran rewards.
I have a better idea. Just add a 3rd dd to the Que. more DD’s would get pulled into dungeons and more tanks will want to Que because less worried about getting stuck with shit dps.
I have no issues with speed runs, i just think someone assuming a speed run is much worse than someone assuming it’s not. Especially when the majority of the time the person just taking off is the one that’s joined the queue as a fake roll. I usually do runs with at least one guildie so we kick these people quick and stick them on ignore - especially if it’s a vet dlc dungeon. Granted it happens less there, but it does happen.
My big thing is if you queue for group content, you need to be considerate of the group. Otherwise there are loads of single player games people can play.
Yea I agree, unfortunately most players are going to end up being selfish and not think of the group in this instance - rather self efficiency
@@Cooperharley0204 for sure. Thankfully there are really amazing, considerate players out there and a lot of them end up in guilds with other like-minded players. Overall, i do believe that the selfish/elitist types do represent a small portion of the player base. I find the ESO community is extremely friendly and welcoming to all kinds of players overall
@@jayr_xx true dat!!
I know I am nagging a little bit but can you please turn the game sound down when recording? the assassin personality has the worst audio in the game, I can't stand that blade flipping sound. 😭
*i love to que as a tank and run straight to the boss because it's pointless to kill ads on the way when you can just run to the boss and end the dungeon so fast as a DPS tank. they never knew its coming.*
I am all for the idea of giving better rewards for vet content, but they also need to put more restrictions on who can run the vet content. We have all see the cp200 standing in the back light attacking with a bow, the player who has never ran it on normal and are trying a vet dlc for their first attempt, etc. Too many inexperienced players in this game and at least if you run a fake tank with a taunt, it doesnt matter if they guy running around looting barrels is there because youre not counting on them to perform.
I totally agree! I think from a queuing perspective you should definitely be raising the minimum CP a bit, but still allow you to obviously zone in yourself. The problem is though while CP often correlates with experience, that’s not always the case so you’ll still have the problem of a 2000 cp that doesn’t do much group content doing the same thing.
What would you raise the minimums to?
Be required to go through an in game "certification" for Tank, Healer, DPS . A unique test for each role. DPS check, heal check, maintaining a taunt / being able to withstand a certain amount of damage etc and all requiring you follow the basic mechs in the training quest.
Have a second and final "vet" certification. Same as before but teaching more advanced mechs, rotations, etc and require more of the dps/heal checks, and additional enemies to control and maintain taunt on, before you can queue as that role in vet content.
For these certifications, make it reasonable, but not easy / cheesy overland difficulty. Make it worthwhile. Make it possible to fail the test, but retake it as many times as you need.
Add normal difficulty achievements for no death, hm, etc. Requiring all cleared to progress to the vet version of just that dungeon.
All this would most likely solve a few problems and create a few more. As for CP requirements that’s a tough call. You’re right that it never translates well to skill. I have seen lower CP clear vet DLC and high cp seemingly struggle with normal base game content.
so I paused at 4 mins in because I can hardly hear you dude. Turn the audio in game down when you're making a vid. I'll just read the rest of the comments for the content.
I can hear him just fine on my note 10 plus. (Cellphone)
For real. It's bad enough his mic is already ass, but now mixing in the game sounds is unbearable
Make tanking more fun ie aoe taunts/threat generating abilities that feel satisfying add extra rewards as incentives for roles that aren’t queuing as much as the others this game is way too old to be having these problems
Sometimes, I switch to the tank role to deal with any fake tank / fake healer shenanigans.
I'm so tired of endlessly chirping about fake roles in ESO dungeon queues
There are fixes ESO could put in place but they're leaving it as a player problem and every talk I've seen about this derails in like 3 comments. Like it gets said in the video at 12:10 (ish), nobody is listening
Soapbox moment: If you're a PvP tank, please slot a taunt and actually do the tank role (hold agro, turn enemies away from group). Please don't be the tank who is fake tanking lol
As a closing thought: I don't really understand the resistance to playing support roles. My healing rotation feels very similar to my damage rotation, I'm just watching numbers in reverse. If you don't like queue times, slot some heals. Or beef up and slot a taunt. If I'm on my DPS I expect the rando queue to take 15-30 minutes. If I'm on my healer and the queue doesn't pop in 10 seconds I feel like nobody's online
Also, add non-standard queue options like in Group Finder. If I'm cool with 3 DPS and no healer, let me queue for that. If I'm cool with all DPS, let me queue for that. Make a queue that's just the first 4 people in line. It's not like any team is guaranteed a clear just because they have traditional group composition
Normal dungeon should be 4dps or else it's too slow.
You shouldn’t be allowed to queue normal dungeons after 160CP and make the rewards for Vet better.
@@mikelitten7489 my only thing with that is the 160s will always make vet dungeons suck. They won't do mechs and end up quitting. The whole thing will fall apart and no exp for you. Hear me out......scrap dungeon finder in favor of group finder. Make it to where you group BEFORE you go into the random. This way you can set the pt how you want and everyone gets the group they like.
@@jameskahler7519 That’s a good idea too, maybe a higher CP than 160 but there still should be a cap, don’t need 2k CP grinders ruining the learning experience for new players.
@@mikelitten7489 lol that's me!!! The only vets I do are on my healers and tanks. Dps all run normal as healers. BUT I can solo most dungeons so I'm basically carrying.
First off I got five great ideas
But why give this company my 100 million dollars ideas
This is what they get paid for... to solve these problems😂...
im ok with fake tank if they deal 70~120k dps, if someone comes in with fake tank or fake dps with 1k dps, im gonna leave, i dont have 2 more braincell charity pug (cp over 600) with 1k dps doing dungeon, you be surprise alot of pcna khajitt players with 1000+cp doing 1~2kdps as fake tank, dlc dungeon should be separate from normal. alot of time pug did less damage than my tank, bye dont waste my time. tank role should auto get taunt aura by default like ff14, so they wont be carried by other dps.
This is a horrible "solution", and here're why:
1. This would only discourage "fake tank" to queue for normal dungeon, as you've stated, normal dungeon is so easy that a real tank is not needed. Heck, I'd rather to a normal dungeon run with 4 dps rather than the traditional roles queue, it's much faster and more fun.
2. This solution would only push all those "fake tank" onto veteran queue, which is the real bane, and now you're encouraging them even more so.
3. The normal dungeon queue will be a wasteland. Queue for random normal as a dps is already long enough, with all the "fake tanks" filling the slot. Now imaging how much longer it would take if the majority of the player base just queue for dps.
4. The new players doesn't know how to play tank. Surprise surprise, but a lot of ppl playing ESO doesn't come from other mmorpg, they are Elder Scrolls' fans, and they wouldn't know what does a tank even do in dungeon. So now instead of CP 2000 dps posing as a tank, you'd now have a lv20 with sword and shield, spamming light attack and doesn't even know what a taunt is.
Here's the real problem of this game: ppl think tank has to be a support role, which it is true at endgame, but not so much otherwise. I have an endgame tank setup for prog trial group, but I also have a fun tank/dps setup with very high up time on Magma Shell, which makes me almost invincible while also dishing out quite a lot of dmg. That Magma Shell spam tank setup is my fav to run IA, and it hold my record for highest score in solo run. The thing is, tank can be a fun role, but the community is so hell bent on the idea of tank = support, so that very few ppl would have interest in it.
This became a huge problem once the One Tamriel update went live. The Overland used to be a challenge and normal dungeons and raids were also a challenge. You had to know your class, your build, and the mechanics of fights in order to progress. If ZOS was serious about fixing the games issues involving this, they would revert the One Tamriel update. Doing so would also get rid of the homogenization of the game. Farming crafting materials for example was so much more in depth. If you wanted a certain woodworking material you had to go to a specific zone, same with ores and silks etc. Now the game is overtaken by the most brain dead casuals I have encountered in a game, to the point that players above Champion point 500 do not know what interrupts are; or when to dodge/block attacks.
When the game was a challenge, the MAU's (Monthly Active Users) was in the millions, once the One Tamirel update went live, those number died off fast. By late 2017 the MAU's had reached an average of 45k, and now it barely can manage 30k. Within 18 months ESO lost millions of players and its been on life support ever since. The only way to revamp the game and get players that should be doing more challenging content is to the the one thing ZOS will never do, and that is to pull a Final Fantasy 14 move. Completely reworking the game and making it a challenge like it once was.
11 minutes into the video I thought this was something about how to stop people from fake tanking and fake healing
What is your idea about getting people to play their appropriate roles
You are on a rant and rave about a whole different topic