ESO's Most Popular Problem - Fake Roles
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2024
- #elderscrollsonline #esofam #microtransactions
After 10 years, we still have the same problem arising. It's time to change something!
Reddit post: / if_you_fake_healtank_y...
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I don't mind fake tanks as long as they have a taunt "PLUS" they are tanky enough to survive without a healer in any RND. I've seen fake tanks that have taunts but they're so squishy they run around the battlefield in circles wasting everybody's ground dots slowing down the dps, defeating the point of fake tanking for a super fast rnd.
I’d argue that way you’re describing isn’t even a fake tank. If they have a taunt and are survivable but they just lack the utility of a tank, they are still a tank. They just are a bad one
@@justintyler2408
If it's normal dungeons then I even prefer fake tanks running PvP builds to make it go faster
@@knavenformed9436 Don't care either way in rando normals, but it is still faster to have one good tank pull the whole dungeon for 3 DDs than have some idiot on a PvP toon that barely does any DPS come in thinking he's hot stuff and just run through everything without killing anything in Blackheart Haven and combat glitch the doors so you have to wait forever to get through because roll dodge and /reloadui aren't working lol
@@charlesrogers9060
Honestly yeah I've only recently had luck in my daily dungeons to be in Bal Sunnar etc where a real tank has been a great boon.
But a healer I've yet to see be worth it, also yes I also run a PvP damage dealer set and I won't be arsed to grind out an optimal DPS setup after hybridization, won't be touching Vet dungeon at least as there overland/PvP builds are not welcome and I know it.
@@knavenformed9436 I have a "combat healer" that I use that works great for normal dungeons. It is a stam warden bow/2H build. It has more great heals and can output a moderate amount of damage when the heals are not needed. The only relatively weak area is the utility. It has energy orb and a resource restoring monster set, but that is it.
Ran a random normal on my lower level character and was doing the quest for the skill point and undaunted xp. I joined into a group of high CP veteran players, and I let them know I was doing the quest. One of the veteran players was also doing the quest, and he let them know too. The other two somewhat slowed down, but then they didn’t. They almost killed one of the bosses too fast and messed up the quest for us. Absolutely need a random normal dungeon quest option when queuing for those who have not done the quest and it needs to put them in a dungeon where they have not done the quest with other people who want to do the quest.
ESO have a big population problem and only place you can find players is normal RND. So it wont fix it.
When I want to quest, I solo the normal dungeon. Just use pale order ring and it will be brain dead.
@@eget4144 I’m not waiting to level 50 to do the quest if I join a random normal at level 17.
@@Solomonlike and I am not going to wait you in random dungeon. Everyone is free after all.
@@eget4144it really is a content problem. Because people like you (not an insult) don’t want to wait after doing them a billion times. So those who are new to the dungeon or need the quest get hosed.
That isn’t a good programming choice. The quests in the dungeons should be tailored to not have you ha e to wait around for 3 mins while NPCs talk at each other before proceeding. Should be like other mmos and make all the story content involving the dungeon happen out side the dungeon and any dialog should be done on the way and not have you required to halt progression
@@ShadowProject01 I'm not sure if this a content problem or simply a player issue. You may have done that dungeon a bunch of times but you're still partaking in group content, with other people in the same group as you. Waiting for a slower player is just basic manners.
But on the other hand you mention the main story arc that also go through the dungeon DLCs. This started AFAIK with Wrathstone and earlier dungeons are still technically "side quests". But no matter what, you're right that main stores and PUGs don't really work together very nicely. So you either group up with guildmates, or try to solo the dungeon, preferably on normal.
I appreciate DD's queueing as a healer for 95% of content when I'm tanking.
For me, fake DD's are a bigger issue. If I'm tanking and nothing's dying I'll just leave then the bots can wait for a worse tank.
There's no such thing as a fake DD, just bad at doing damage. No one is out here queuing as DD for faster queue times because that doesn't exist lol
I've seen people fake tank/heal in a vet DLC dungeon it didn't end well
Vet random dungeons are for when you feel like punishing yourself
💀
They are easy mate. Just HMs are difficult. Imperial city dungeons' HMs are child's play.
@@eget4144 yeah, when you queue with your own group. PUGing a random vet is literally a waste of time, there's no reward for queueing in a vet vs. a normal when you also even run the chance of being in a group of people who aren't able to grasp dungeon mechs.
@@swanvonmane8533 I think people are so afraid of vet random, only confident players que. Therefore, my vet random groups fail rather rarely.
Nobody is talking about the fake dd you get when pugging as a real tank or healer …
Generally speaking, out of principle I always ki k fake roles. I've been playing this game for years. I can solo most regular dungeons, but fake roles tend to be entitled annoying as fuck players who don't give a shit about anyone else. For the sake of newer players, and put of spite, I'd legitimately rather kick the fake role and carry the group myself.
As if fake roller cares. They will instantly find another dungeon. Blame the devs because people can play as they wish.
ye,me too. especially, that on most characters l have training sets. My dps might not be top, but still enough to solo with companion. I just need tank to keep boss in 1 place in my aoe. Last time I had archer tank,who was running aound area, because he wanted keep distance and l had to chase boss and waste resources droping my aoe very often. Luckily rest of group agreed kick him and we finish dungeon quickly with my Sharp ;-p
What you need is someone like me to show you the upside of fake tanking. White Gold Tower is the hardest imo that big thing before the door will 1 hit you if you don't block or roll
This is why you fake que with a buddy, so there’s no majority vote to kick😂 we only do normal dungeons for daily’s.
You don’t need a legit tank for most dungeons up to and including vet hard mode dlc dungeons.
If you have 4 competent dps with knowledge of the mechs the dungeons are a breeze. Just completed Oathsworn on vet hm without a tank. Tanks are good for taking the damage for less capable and/or less experienced players
Lately I've found a really fun niche in RND as what I think of as DPS healer, where I'm all combatprayer/healing springs etc on one bar , and full lightning sorcerer offensive on the other bar with tons of DOTS and the super OP mage's execute
Daily runs have never been so great! Even works in veteran dungeons but it really shines in those normal instances with 2 new dps players
Just heal if you’re going to heal. We don’t need your help dpsing.
@@lef1970 best healer is major courage+powerful assault DD set up for normals.
@@eget4144 I dunno - when I can pound out 350k in trash and 120k on boss just keep me alive so I don’t have to slot resolving vigor … I mean I appreciate the effort but yeah just keep the dps alive.
@@lef1970 if you dont slot self heal at RND, it is a mistake
@@lef1970yeah I've seen "good" DPS I'll bring my own thanks
I hear the "Normal dungeons are so easy you don't need a healer" from lots of people. From what I've experienced, is yes they are easy, but only as long as you have at least one veteran DPS to pull the group through it. I used to think they were so easy that even a caveman could run them because I have some beefy DPS on a few characters. I decided to try a few actual tanks and healers. I found that if you don't get a DPS that can pull the lower DPS groups through, a healer and tank are still a great asset even in normals. I'm not bashing on lower DPS groups at all, I was there once myself and remember how difficult some of the dungeons could be. Unless the fake roles also suck at DPS, don't get me started on that. From what I'm seeing, the fake roles either pulling or slowing down the group is very detrimental to people trying to learn the game. I was in a group just yesterday with a fake healer, and the number of times the low level tank and the other DPS died had to be very discouraging to them.
To queue as a tank, it should be required to have a taunt slotted. Also, take out 2 problems at once by making all dungeon quests dailies that reward extra transmutes. That will make endgame players needing transmutes crystals slow down to do the quests with the newbies.
Slot taunt, queue pop, unslot taunt. Ezpz.
Most of the quests makes the dungeons slightly slower.
People can unslot taunts easly. But I still prefer having taunt my DD-fake tank for my self respect.
I don't mind doing poorly in a dungeon. I don't consider how well you do a major part of your character. Having compassion is more important.
there's a limit though
Agree. I was hopeful that Group Finder would improve things. I think it does, but it doesn't go far enough, or simple enough. I think they need to integrate Dungeon Finder and Group Finder. So, I can, for a run on my new character, choose from the Dungeon Finder screen "Random Normal - Complete Quest" or later on "Random Normal - All Bosses/All Mechanics" or "Random Normal - Speed Run", so I get slotted/queued with like-minded folks. I also agree on the reward structure, water finds its level. If players are rewarded something worthwhile, they will absolutely do x, y, and z to get that reward.
tbh at first I started fake tanking but I'm slowly trying to fit into the mold and just play as tank
I always find people with 2k+cp who don't have damage, don't know the mechanics, don't heal and don't know how to be tanks.... The wrong role is the least of the problems, you only find these guys who only know how to use heavy attack build and don't want to learn how to play.... I prefer my companions who will do something and not just get in the way
Yea there’s lots of problems. I’d love an option to fill with companions to speed up the queue.
I feel fake roles in pugs is a problem proportionate to to the overall group's experience. A fake tank grouped up with highly experienced players won't be nearly as much of a detriment as one grouped up with newcomers. Afterall I got into a random daily for a DLC dungeon that turned out to be 4 DPS all of high caliber and the dungeon got absolutely destroyed, but that only worked because each individual DPS knew what they were doing. Replace one of them with one guy that never played the dungeon and just wants their quest clear and suddenly it might go from that overkill clear to one of the worst experiences.
I typically can't really speak much on the problem though as 90% of the time I'm an actual tank, I'm one of those weird people that actually enjoys this somehow. What I did sometimes notice as a problem adjacent to fake roles though is queueing for dungeons on lower lvl toons and getting insta kicked right at the start before anything has even happened. Best I can figure was that they want a fast run and a low lvl might just drag behind, but if I was a new player I might not have the context of knowing why that happened and just move on. Had that happen on a warden healer I was lvling up and trying to get skill points through dungeon quests, didn't even have time to say my usual "Hello". I think the reward system for daily randoms also make it so that if new players get grouped up with speedrunners, the speedrunners can also be aggravated at the newcomer but for different reasons. And when it comes to who gets to stay in the dungeon it's a majority wins rule, won't matter if your role is real or fake or if you're high or low lvl.
Dont forget fake damage dealers. I notice that theyre never mentioned in these debates... but fake dps create the problem of fake tanks and fake healers. 😢
Q'ing into a dungeon with people that cant even kill the first trash pulls... good tanks typically leave, after the tank leaves the healer leaves.
Back when I still played ESO, I couldn't tell you the number of times I queued as a healer, an actual dedicated healer, and was kicked for not being a fake healer and not doing enough DPS. I ended up just quitting the game because healing in ESO was just an all around frustrating experience.
Maybe they should make the normal dungeons have vet difficulty. Up the difficulty to force cohesion n role responsibility
I usually queue with a solo build parsing 65-70k damage w oakensoul and doing around 30k-40k in actual content cos that way I can be prepared for those fake roles (and still do around 40% to 60% of dmg most of the time) but if a tank join with less health than me I automatically starts a kick out vote (Im in 33k health and Ive seen people pretending to be tank with 24k health) problem w that people is that they aren't team players but yeah I mostly do vet content cos this doesn't happen so often, problem now is that newbies are doing vet (even dlc) wo knowing basic mechanics and not taking here about really complex mechs but even basic ones like not standing in AoEs and tbh what ticks me off is not that they are faking is that they are skipping the queue and adding more waiting time for the one of us that we actually tank.
Problem is there’s no benefit to filling the role in normal que & most players just want to get the normal dailies done so they can get the trans stones. Zos gate keeps the easiest way to farm trans stones behind the dungeon que. Fix the rewards and make stones easier to acquire and maybe people won’t que as tank so they can easily get their dailies done & get instant ques.
As a new player that has been only healing dungeons I can see how your perspective is that of someone that has been playing for a long time. I find that in most dungeons with players of my CP level or lower my role has a positive impact and the ONLY dungeons that I feel I could go afk in, are the ones with max CP players in max gear that are speed running it. So you're right from your own perspective but that has not been my experience so far.
Totally fair! Can agree with that 100%
Games need a guild hub of a type. Not player house guilds. Like a building where you go in post that your looking for a guild and then guilds can respond to them in game. The guild building would need to have things related to pve, and pvp i.e the group finder could be in there. A notice board for the battlegrounds. A couple even, some for solos coming by the guild to find people and for the groups already established. Something like that to help encourage people to hang out there and/or check in there every play session. And like just spit balling here but there could be like 15 or 20 doors ilke an apartment building but set up to be a guild hub. Where guild masters apply to have a guild created. Every guild gets a room that is an instance. Then you can stack multiple guilds in the same "room". The instance could be like magic portals or something too. That way the rooms themselves could be like some of the cool bigger player houses. All this to say it could help encourage players to be more interactive with each other.
Actually the main reason why i stopped playing as a tank and started pvping more is because of fake dps players. When my tank is doing 3k dps and my CMX is still showing that I'm doing over 50% of the DPS so it's taking me over an hour just to do 1 normal dung... Im out. I'm sorry but that's an extremely boring and frustrating experience as a tank. I'd rather que for BGs and get my crystals that way with a BG build. Nowadays i just slap on oakensoul with a heavy attack build to solo the daily undaunted quests. You can do it faster than a 4 man group most of the time due to how poor DPS has been in the game lately
It takes up to 30 minutes to que as a dps sometimes for a random on Xbox lol it’s too much
I queue as a healer for normals, because I assume there will be fake tank, so i'm reducing number of fakes this way, and I can tank most dungeons as a healer anyway, plus you can have decent heal setup while also having decent DPS.
Main bar: Crushing shock, Mystic orb, Unstable wall, daedric prey, volatile familiar
Second bar: Combat prayer, Healing springs, radiating regen, healing ward, vilatile familiar
You can keep group alive and if group is decent you can stay mainly on 1'st bar.
With party of noobs you can easily dash enough aoe damage to make things smooth, and you will have decent single target damage.
You could use atro ulti and light's champion for other bar.
I wear: maw of infernal monster set, mother's sorrow, and julianos / necropotence (depending on the mood)
So even gear is not like top notch, but usually I'm top DPS on normal as a healer, and I tank most of it as bosses love healers, and while you're being healed you can usually just face-tank anyway except for few boss moved at best, so you don't lose much DPS either.
If I switched some skills and like 1 set for another I could get like ice staff on first bar and taunt as well.
TO be honest though I don't know when was last time I saw like actual tank on a normal xD
If you're a fake tank or fake healer, please just tell the group that you're not doing your role (yes, same applies for doing quest, communicate with the group). Also, please be decent at dealing damage because I'm sick of fake DPSs too
Sure, I get annoyed by fake queues but we can work through it, but since that means I have to change my play style and maybe even some skills, give me a heads up. At that point it's just a respect issue and you go around disrespecting the group you're likely to get kicked
Long term, the Dungeon Finder needs some updates. You should be able to queue for specialty group compositions (speed run, slow and burn all, run the quest, chest run, all DPS, and so on)
imo the only thing that can help is stopping to "force" endgame players to engage in early-game content where new players are.
even if you don't fake tank/heal some players will have their experience ruined by a second dps just killing everything before they even get into the fight and that's not fair to them either.
now, if you like running stuff with newer players that's fine but it shouldn't be a "farming method" but rather voluntary
i'd like to see them change the reward system for transmutes so that a) veteran has higher rewards than normal, at least double and b) so it's a daily accountwide cooldown so you don't need to run so many times because then the difference in time investment between a nFG and vLoM isn't as significant if you only have to run it once anyway so people might actually stay in the group and not just PXE as soon as they see the dungeon
the problem is devs have no control or idea on whats going on in the game.
Granted, i love the game, but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt if they: play their own game, play with the players, and/or realize that some of their design choices regardless how unique it is doesn't work.
i highly doubt that in future expansions they will keep roles as static only. Maybe in another 10 years we would see it?
right. if you're gonna fake tank a normal dungeon or easier vet dungeon, slot a taunt, have 30k health and a sword & board.
I came across some bozo a couple of weeks ago who cheerfully admitted to be being a fake tank in a trial. We told him trials aren't dungeons and said we'd try if only to show him what we meant. After two wipes he said "aw come on guys". Booted. The same guy popped up on another trial an hour or so later - his reputation had preceded him, shall we say...
Don't know about solutions, but they really should up the trasmute reward for RNDs to 20. Having to run dungeons so many times has made me hate ones I used to love.
I hate fake roles especially the ones that don't have burn as dps like in vet dlc dungeons or trials
I don’t think most people will slow down if asked. I do randoms on multiple characters every day and most requests to slow down are ignored or ridiculed. I am very high cp (almost 2500) and play all roles, but I do not enjoy rushing dungeons (normal or vet). I stopped tanking because you could never pull (even in vet dungeons, dps will still pull the whole thing). The only way I can make farming transmutes somewhat enjoyable for myself is to go in as a real healer. As the entire dungeon is pulled, there becomes an actual need for a healer to keep the group alive. 😂 But anyways, I think most of the dungeon que is very selfish and will make any excuse to justify the behavior of dragging the rest of the group behind them.
Easiest solution:
You can only queue as tank if you have more than 35k health and a taunt (plus, maybe, heavy armor). If you want to select the role of a healer, you must have a healing staff and a group heal (other than vigor).
That would stop 99% of the fake tanks/healers. BUT because you can switch gear in game, this check should be made randomly in a dungeon. If someone changes gear from tank to dd's, the game should kick him from the group.
Because, in our guild, we often run as 4 dd, you should allow such a group if everyone checks “[X] Don't need a tank, [X] Don't need a healer”. If everyone is OK with fake healer/tank, it would be good if the game allows this.
The most annoying thing about fake tanks/healers is, that they rush the game and don't care if someone wants to do the quest. The game should show the group that someone has taken the quest, that would be easiest. Of course, if you take a look, and see someone standing by the side of the questgiver, you could know that. I always respect that in some dungeons taking the quest will take some time, and encourage new players to take the quest.
The best way to stop all of this without changing the game is to search for a friendly guild. I learned how to tank, how to heal, from a guild. And when we play, we're on discord anyway and talk about those points. This is a much better experience. In my first guild, we had teachers who showed us how to act as a tank, a healer, a dd, how to stack etc. If all of this is done properly, you do not lose much time with 1T/1H/2 DD over a group with 4 DD. Because proper tanks and healers will also boost your DPS.
I’m a tank but play as the dps role cuz why not have 2 tanks
Im overjoyed whenever i run into a fake healer, quicker dungeons.
I cannot tolerate fake tank as they let the boss attack everyone randomly. They try to get in the dungeon easier but not doing their job. If you are a dps, why other dps has to queue longer but you can jump queue and not contributing to your team at all.
If we are talking normal dungeons who cares if there fake it easy on vet is when its a problem i help new people all the time
If I’m farming a set from a dungeon I’ll fake heal on normal (I’m a 120k dps arc) and only if I get a group of low level players I’ll let them know I’m fake healing and let them decide if they want to kick or try beat it, higher lvl players typically don’t care and we just speed run it
just heal and do dps
A huge issue is the vast majority of new/low lvl players all want to be dps, but they struggle to do 5k dps and queue dungeons and crowd the system.... thus making other players opt to run as a fake role. No excuse to not have a taunt/heal that can be slotted if required and certainly no excuse if you faking on vet. I've lost count how many times one of my legit tanks has had to do all roles in a vet non-DLC and rez the dps's 30 times on final boss and done over 50% of the damage...... So it's up to everyone to try to teach noobs to try out tanking/healing so they understand the roles and how much they are letting the group down when they queue with a build that makes everyone suffer
I get that folks want burn through random normals quickly and don't want to wait forever as a dps. I also understand that for the most part base game normal dungeons are very forgiving without having a tank. However, a good tank ALWAYS makes the experience better and frequently faster. Positioning bosses, chaining ranged mobs, and sometimes running gear that does mass pulls--it's glorious. Your group deserves to have a real tank. If you want to spec it for dps, cool. But you better be making life easier for the group by doing what a tank does while you kill stuff.
I do exactly that as a healer. Front bar healz, back bar dps, dps champion points, but always keeping an eye on the health bars and providing buffs.
And please, run dedicated tanks and healers in vet content ;D
In vet, sure - which is why I categorically refuse to solo queue as a tank for random veteran dungeons. In normal? No, sorry, but I'm done with true tanking normal dungeons, forever and ever. If you're with complete newbies that together pull not even 10k despite you giving every buff and debuff possible, you cannot do anything. You cannot really spec it as dps either - which is why I run normals with DDs with a taunt. How often do I do over 70% of the group dps.
And this is exactly the reason why I do not queue as a tank for veteran dungeons. Because when you do everything you mentioned, grouping, aoe major breach, pull in every mob, fully debuff the whole merry group of ads, and your 2 randomly assigned DDs manage to pull a whopping total 20k dps on that group, yup no thank you I'm out.
I don't blame those people either really, because zos refuses to give any indications about what level of play should be expected for the content. And this is the reason why DDs have to sit an hour in veteran dungeon queues, because no tank wants to risk having such a group. I'm sorry if I'm sounding toxic, but I'm really done with this, and every good tank I know feels the same way
the game is ripe for moving toward a hybrid type group play, but if they havent changed it in 10 years they never will.
Too many people wanting to play dps is the problem. I hit 100k dps. I have 20 characters. I run a guild that trains brand new players how to effectively olay their roles. We reward people who play support roles, too! I wouldn't fake queue in veteran (unless we made up the whole group) i solo a lot of vet content but have been teaching people their roles for 8 years and have passed on 4 guilds in that time. All training guilds. Fake heals over fake tanks in normal dungeons for sure. We'd like to see a day where we don't feel the need to. But time is money. Time is life. Time is of the essence and I'll get that perfecta every time.
When I used to play ESO, I hated fake tanks because their dps sucked most of the time and I ended up being the tank. I'd just bail and go touch grass.
I'm a stickler for the basic "know your role" rules. But I dont mind fake tanks or healers in normal dungeons. And I dont mind helping others who are questing for whatever. Thats what makes the game so much fun.
But the past couple of years theres been a glut of dps fake healers and tanks that scream at other players, race through content and disband the group before everyone can finish the dungeon or repeatedly die to exacerbate the issue. All too many players dont listen to mechanics or take responcibility for their lack of skill and lack of understanding the way this game works.
I wish zos or whoever is in control would do something about the issue of fake roles but I dont see that happening.
My experience with 95% of other players anymore is not good. And sadly for the first time since launch I've stepped away from the game for awhile.
Well they DID make the change to better accommodate hybrid builds. People just impatient and lazy to figure out a build they truly want or even care enough to learn how their respective positions work. I personally have a pure healer, and two pure tankers built but never run them, because I cant find an actual tank when healing or buffs back from healers when tanking.
And to the point of veteran runs, i think it’s actually better to run the veteran dungs, because I have noticed the players typically player their respective roles in them.
people complaining about fake tanks/healers don't know about the pain of queueing for an rnd as an actual support and having to slot dmg abilities bc stuff isn't dying at all.
4 dps can burn most vet dungeon pretty easy
I started out absolutely hating fake tanks and healers, especially since I would patiently sit and wait forever in a queue. I used to rail against it.
Changed my mind though.
Recently I have started doing it myself and not giving people who do it grief (unless they perform badly) for it for the following reasons.
1. Its a symptom of fundamental design flaws, or, an unintended consequence of play your own way philosophy. You don't see this in WoW for example, you'll be annihilated if you don't have the right specs by design. You simply cannot solo current content in WoW unless you're a top tier raider with top tier gear.
2. There is a serious shortage of tanks and healers. If everyone only queued in their spec, the queue would take even longer, significantly compounding the problem. I have sat in a Queue for over an hour.
So we actually need elite DPS players to queue as fake tanks and healers in a hybrid kind of way.
3. Since I can solo normal dungeons anyway, I might as well tank as a dps with a taunt.
4. You get plenty fake DPS. Some idiot with over 1000 C.P. who looks like he was born yesterday. When I tank with my actual Dragon Knight tank, it takes forever to kill stuff because a surprising number of DPS are useless.
5. If you can do some veterans without a healer, its simply not fun for healers especially on normal, so why force them? Makes no sense to insist on it in normal content.
6. I dont do this in DLC Veteran content unless I can solo it.
7. I have found that if you perform well, are courteous and patient with new players who are questing, then no one actually minds that you're a fake tank. I actually started a guild with the specific aim of taking in new players and showing them the ropes and it has been great.
The guy in the post kind of says the quiet part out loud though. Says he may be a "shit dps". I reckon he is just got butt hurt and is venting online. Ive done several dungeons where I saw a DPS clearly struggling. At the end I always offer them my help and an invite to my guild to assist them in improving and farm better gear. The number of arrogant bastards who think they are fine how they are is astounding.
Conclusion, there are plenty assholes, dps blaming tanks, tanks blaming healers, healers blaming tanks, dps blaming healers and so on. Often those who complain the most do the least.
For the developers, the fix is, I reckon, simple.
Provide a damage decrease buff or reward incentive or buff on anyone willing to take the responsibility of tanking, and, disable tanking unless you have 1. A taunt slotted and 2. meet a resistance requirement for certain DLC content at certain tiers of difficulty, and do something similar for healers, with the restrictions not applying to a pre made group so that guilds can do whatever they want.
All that said. If youre a person of goodwill that likes to take time helping put new and struggling players, look up the guild "The Beloved" on Playstation consoles, we have spots open for mentors for every role, especially pvp since I do not pvp at all.
Multifaceted probl. Players will say that newbies should ask questions, saying they are new, want to do the quest, etc. Some people are shy, want to remain as anonymous as possible, it takes everything to DECIDE to do dungeons (they’ve been told they are missing a lot if they don’t). In my case, I had no concept of how those roles took shape in terms of strategy and how to move and position character to be efficient in role. Hardcore players with dollhouse players do not mix well. Multifaceted aspect is even deeper than you think. Wide variety of types of people playing. And it should be that way nobody needs to change. It is a game after all, right? A lot of frustration is understandable but should be expected when such a variety of people play together for different highs. A better segmentation might help similar players find each other in same groups to do dungeons. And better inform newbies about how to play the game. But veterans should stop interpreting every weird behaviour as a lack of respect for the group. Just saying you are new is not enough. I might never demonstrate the level of performance expected, and it is not because I will be eternally new to the game. I’m simply not good at it. Playing a smooth session of dungeons with great players is a privilege and serendipity. It is not a right.
best would be implementing 1 random for 2 players + 2companions, or random solo dungeon (and removing mechanics requiring 2 players)
If I can solo the dungeon on vet im definitely not sorry if I cue an innacurate role on normal
Fake roles post armory update seem silly. Why not have a true version of the role needed and the one wanted?
in all honesty i dont mind fake roles in non vet content if they don't die and do mechanics. when i que as a fake healer ill at least have something to heal the group like resto back bar or have the healing dino on sorc. if i fake tank i at least have a taunt on. i could only hope other would do the same however...i know that people just want their daily rnd's fast without sitting in que as a DD for 5-30mins for 1 run. TLDR Please just don't fake role in vet content T_T its not fun for anyone and if you're a DD expect support roles wont actually by a support and just slot a heal.
I do hybrid builds for tanking and healing in normals, even in base-game veterans since they're so easy. But I always make sure to be fully dedicated to my role in proper veteran runs.
Though even with my dedicated builds, I make sure to have a heal and a defensive in case of emergency. A lot of times I can salvage a run because I've hybridized a bit.
The day they implement other means to get crystals, dungeon finder will be dead 🤣
DPS TANKS that Solo Tank Vet trials and provide 40k+ DPS are Fake Tanks, people who hate Fake Tanks are just people who play at a lower skill level. DPS Healers who are in the off-healer position are fake healers.
Proper Fake Tanks/Healer are just part of a higher skill level and people of a lower skill level hate that. One of my original builds was the release day of Summerset BloodSpawn/Powerful assault on the body and Olo back bar the community hated it but my build which was good enough to be stolen by the Tank club and added to their website as a supposed original build shaped the entire player base for 4 man content. The variation BloodSpawn/PA/Werewolf was a DPS Tank build which I still really like because with Pillager from a DPS my Barrier has an 80-90% uptime on HM bosses and peopel hate medium armor Fake tanks. They just a lower skill level.
All DPS should have Resolving Vigor Slotted if you don't the harsh truth is you shouldn't even bother going into group content because you're dead weight.
I see a lot of dps using healing sets and I’m like stay in your lane 😑
This channel ever have gameplay?>
I have no real issue unless the fake role isn’t carrying their weight at all and then starts complaining. Or if they’re fake and decide to speed run without running it past the group, resulting in aggroing everything and getting your group wiped. Which then generally just blame the group for 🙄
I usually do dungeons with 2 or 3 guildies… if this happens we let things play out then kick the person close to the end so they’ve wasted their time. I don’t even care. They have to learn consideration for others somehow. If you cannot play well and coordinate with others, stop playing MMO’s. Go play single player games.
Oh! And we put them on ignore so we don’t end up dealing with them again.
Unless the whole group has agreed to it ahead of time, it is always disrespectful to the other members of the group to fake anything for any content, period. I don't care if you can solo the damn dungeon. This is for the same reason it is disrespectful to skip ahead in a line irl. I get upset when the tank is clearly fake, even in the easiest of dungeons, because it makes my job harder than it needed to be. Doesn't matter if we all survive. Doesn't matter if no one complains. There is nothing you can say to me that will convince me that it's ok to do, ever. Bit of a hard liner on this one I'm afraid. And if you don't agree then A you're part of the problem, and B complain to Zenimax cause they can do something about it and choose not to. And if you think for one second Zenimax isn't aware of this 10:10 issue and understand it just as completely as the rest of us then forgive me but you're naïve. They haven't addressed it because it doesn't cost them any money not to fix (10 years of proof), and it would cost them money to fix, and it wouldn't generate any revenue to fix.
I only queue as a tank on my dps for random normals. I do 99.9% of the work and I’m not gonna sit and wait 30 minutes just to carry some bow light attacker that gets lost.
What? I'll happily take 4 dds in a normal dungeon, who's running fake tanks in vet content? No one
What you talking about I can simply say is I have a healer that dps is low and rewarded items are not the same as running a DPS a real tank position àlso from my experience are also experiencing the same issue as healer it should be aloud to run all four dps
Probably 80% of normal dungeons you don’t need a tank or a healer
Dont need a TANK would be nice if you would hold the boss still and not run around like a scared fish
@@frankenstein4968 you don’t need a tank in normal dungeons, if you do you probably aren’t good at the game.
@@DAK_11 I don't need a tank I need someone to hold the boss is one spot so I can kill it without chasing it around the room for 30 fkn minute
Fake tanking I can kinda understand the logic behind, but why fake heal? Healing is the easiest role in the game, and is also fun; why not just be a real healer?
A lot of dungeon organization comes from tanks. Healing isn’t needed outside of slotting a self heal, or even at all many times in normal dungeons.
@@Cooperharley0204 Normal dungeons you can easily get away with an all DPS party most of the time, and just steamroll everything. Trying to run vet without all the proper roles quickly turns into a mess in my experience.
@@ProfessorOfPoorTaste im always fake heal in pugs, almost all vet dlc dungeons done this way with a few exceptions(MGF, SG maybe couple more) so this way i can contribute with good dps and even use heals sometimes if needed.
welll maybe they should fix the que before we fix that i sit in ques every single day for over 10-20 minutes for dps ques for ez brain dead content.... i am beyond tired with the babying and the glazing that goes into people who are lost playing the game just my opinion...
Put gaze of sithis, inner fire and que as tank for normal. It is more than enough. The enough is full DD build + 1 taunt + vigor. Just fake tank mate.
They should lock roles so they can’t be changed
I hate fake tanks with a passion. Anytime I get one while on my healer I always teach them a lesson and not heal or rez them. 90% of the time they leave, incur queue penalty and I celebrate another victory over the douches of the world 😂😂😂
I fake tank all the time, I use a taunt and do 30-60% of the damage depending on the groups level. @I_Remastered. I forgot to mention i dont have a lot of the dlcs so my randoms are base game, dont try to to fake tank dlc dungeons its a different world. I never fake heal thats just cruel