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The PR DISASTER of Microsoft Recall!
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2024
- Microsoft Build has come and gone, but the new Windows Recall feature has made everyone upset. Some of the reasons are good, others are not. Let's talk about it.
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Chapters:
00:00 Introducing Microsoft Build & Recall
01:58 What is Windows Recall?
03:32 Ensured/Ensuing Backlash
07:13 Actual Recall Details
09:54 "Justified" Outrage
10:47 The NPU Requirement
12:33 Storage Requirement Bump
14:09 Peering Into the Crystal Ball
16:30 Outro
I will say this now and I probably should have put emphasis on it: the only proper way to test Recall is to wait for 24H2 and the Snapdragon X Elite machines. The unlocking of Recall to non-NPU devices is interesting and may serve important for later research, but people should wait for the final product for jumping to conclusions.
Microsoft also released additional documentation this morning on the Windows blog about the OOBE experience (which the only source was the incomplete hack and it really isn't clear if they meant for people to see that screen at all). Also notice the bad PR of them letting conspiracy theories swirl for 2 weeks before commenting.
Also, Recall is not an (imminent) privacy concern. What you should be more afraid of is in its default state, Microsoft is able to collect ALL OF THE SAME INFORMATION. The only difference is now there is a screenshot of it they may never see (again, we need to wait for the full version to confirm this). Never mind the fact Recall is arbitrarily locked to NPU machines because Microsoft needs more money. Microsoft does not need Recall AT ALL to see you do your private business on your computer; they have invasive telemetry for that.
I made this video reading about the exploit from Kevin Beaumont as well, but because how limited the scope of Recall's rollout is, it's not known what the impact will be to the Windows ecosystem. Nobody knows, so if you see anyone comment "Recall will make security worse" or "Recall is just fine," both answers cannot be tested.
That's a very even-handed and realistic assessment! IMO the main problem isn't MS itself (they're a big clumsy stupid megacorporation, so groupthink-style manager-level misjudgement could cause lots more harm than the usual conspiracy theories), but the risk of actual malicious actors (hackers, snoops, whatever) accessing the Recall data is the real worry - especially as we're not living in peaceful times.
When my expected delivery date for a pre-order special Surface Pro w/ 64GB RAM went from 18 June 2024 to 20 September 2024, I cancelled the order. I'm ordering a Snapdragon Dev Kit for Windows from Qualcomm instead, since that is still on schedule for 18 June 2024.
Microshaft is doing more for the adoption of linux than any other entity.
I saw a video of someone using Recall on a VM. It's called "I enabled Windows Recall on an unsupported machine, how creepy is it?" by RUclipsr Eric Parker, released 5 days ago. The thing took a sceenshot of his (fake) credit card info, so... pretty fucking creepy is the answer. The SQLite DB is entirely unencrypted, as long as the user is logged-in too. I understand trying to be reasonable and down to earth, but this feature is just plain terrible in every way.
Mental Outlaw did the same thing with a short python script
Remote activation sounds like a nightmare
Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Microsoft is asking for a level of trust they simply have not earned. Well, they surely did not earn mine. I think it's finally time to look toward alternatives.
Big companies like Adobe, Microsoft and Google are all under reputational implosion right now because of overreliance on AI, which has many different issues but gives the companies incredible opportunities when it comes to profits. It makes me a bit upset. Now I understand why more and more people are averse of this wave of AI, especially in the computer enthusiast sphere and Linux community.
Honestly I have no problem with AI stuff getting more attention and use, my issue is that I do not trust Microsoft with keeping their word on anything. While I haven't used Windows on my personal machines for awhile now I don't think I will be going back especially after this I know that Windows is still used by a lot of people and while I hope that Microsoft keeps their word and also makes it able to be turned off entirely and keep it off after updates I don't think anyone should trust that they will do that.
That's what you think but a look at their stocks they say otherwise, everyone is doing fine. Adobe is the only one who actually had something noticeable happen but I bet it will recover in a few months once their users engage on their usual coping of "you get what you pay for".
Sure, my computer will become slower, less consistent, and less secure, but I'll be able to draw squiggles and have the AI turn it into a mountain range
I died when that presenter claimed her abuelita used Discord. Nobody uses Discord past the age of 40 (unless you're me lol)...
@@Trafotin You're wrong on that one. I know several people in their 60s and 70s who use Discord.
recall feature is already being tested on virtual machines and it's as bad as you can imagine. @MentalOutlaw did a video 22h ago dissecting it
Having the OS taking screenshots every 5 seconds already creeps me out, AI or no AI. I am already beginning to mess around with Linux. As Rob Braxman put it, if 3 letter agencies want to grab some of those, then all they need to do is to grab it when it is not encrypted by snatching it directly from Windows while logged in.
But it's all local; oh, wait, for now, it's local.. For now, it only runs on the new crop of NPU enabled; like there's no chance you'll upgrade your computer in the future to a chip that might have a built in NPU.. I won't trust any tech company to keep their words when there's a profit to be made selling "SOMEONE ELSE'S DATA" ..
I think we can all agree that this is once of the most dumbest decisions Microsoft has ever made! I just got a new laptop and one of the first things I wanted to do with it was to install Linux. Seems like I chose a good time to do so! The fact that Microsoft is forcing bitlocker and Ai on everyone made me feel glad that I switched to Fedora before I became a part of that audience.
Google is also testing adding a feature called "memories" to ChromeOS, basically the same thing.
right now I don't think you could trust any closed source software written by a publicly traded company.
i hate AI, AI is one of the worst things or recent times and before. switch to linux if you want a good system, ditch MacOS and Windows. i have yet to see a positive use of AI, i am still convinced its worthless and lazy. change my mind
I think AI is great and in my future as an IT-Engineer i am going to use AI daily because it helps humans to do coding better to help in simple tasks etc and no it's not never ever going to take humanity :D the AI is so simple that it cannot do anything like that never.
I’m only ditching macOS when Asahi Linux hits stable and/or Apple’s Google Gemini integration ends up being worse than copilot. Apple usually leaves ‘features’ off by default and never changes user configs via updates. My computer has looked exactly the same when going from macOS 12-14. So stable, hasn’t even slowed down at all. On Windows, all sorts of things change every time you update. On Linux, you just use terminal and usually configs stay in place (depends on DE and distro). Linux and macOS will be the future for techies if Microsoft keeps blundering. I only know one person of my many friends that actually likes Windows 11 (including non-techies).
AI is absolutely game-changing for mankind. the advances in the medical field alone make it worth it. robotics are taking huge strides forwards too, and so are many other areas. the problem isn't AI, it's how big tech is abusing it.
I remember the exact same discussion going on when the first home computers came out.
@@GraveUypoMicrosoft is pushing the envelope, but without big tech there would be no AI. I don't see either as inherently good or evil. I do see a lot of fear bordering on paranoia though.
I understand Regkeys can be used to disable all the crap Microsoft likes to add, but that can't always be the one magic item able to excuse W11's horribleness. I hope countries will see the necessity in significantly increasing their funding towards the Linux foundation after this stunt.
yeah, it's like buying a computer that gives you cancer, "but you can disable it 🤗". f-off, don't put cancer in it in the first place. plus 100% sure microsoft is going to silent re-enable it after every update
The Linux Foundation is for funding much larger things than desktop Linux. Things like AI, space development, or scientific uses. Giving them money to improve the Linux desktop is not a good idea. It's better to support companies that contribute heavily to it like Red Hat, SUSE, or Canonical.
This aged like milk before it was released. It turned into yogurt, which is still bad for the lactose intolerant. People have run recall on Windows + Arm computers. It can be tested. Heck! You know how to spin up a VM. You can spin up an ARM VM and try it out.
They found out it stores OCR data as unencrypted plain text. They found out it doesn't actually require a specialized NPU. It has already been hacked and a tool was developed to extract the data collected by recall. This is a terrible feature.
I hate these out of touch CEO billionaires who use airy fairy language and make them and their companies seem like God’s gift to humanity.
Microsoft's specs aside, Recall actually _does _*_not_*_ require_ NPUs to function. Some have successfully enabled the feature on unsupported hardware and it worked as slimely as intended. There is no middle ground here. It's an unacceptable invasion of privacy and Microsoft and all their accomplices should be castigated for it.
I would caution against extremism because there's a lot we don't know. 24H2 also has more security safeguards than in current iterations of Windows and those would need to be put to the test then. Defaults matter more than what people hack together.
@@Trafotin Don't sugar coat that steaming pile of crap. It has been demonstrated how a good hacker can get inside.
I cant understand what recall is for. Saving the state of my browser? I have plugins and a bookmark manager for that. Saving my files? I have a backup scheme for that. Saving my projects? I HAVE A SAVE BUTTON FOR THAT. What is Recall FOR!?
"To make the computer more responsive to the user's needs" .. Oh, wait, all of that data will be kept local; well, until big tech companies decide that it belongs to them and uploads it while the user is not looking.. Right now, the feature is not supported by the current X86/X64 processors, but eventually, NPU's and the feature will make it into a future version; but by then the discussion will no longer be "in the news"...
Recall has already been hacked. It wasn't difficult.
Well you can say "Look here you can disable and/ or configure it." Sure but as power users, we know that we can do that. How much of the general public will know about this or even understand its safety risks?
I recommend Eric Parker's video on the topic. It addresses a lot of things mentioned in this video. The main point is how easy it is to get hacked, and it also proves that it doesn't actually need an NPU.
Microsoft has nothing more than adware/spyware/malware. So glad we have Linux to migrate to.
Who coulda known that requiring spyware to be on your operating system could possibly make people mad?
10:20 *Recall can absolutely be tested right now* 🤦♂️
You do need access to a VM and a few other things to enable Recall but this can absolutely be done. This was demonstrated over 2 weeks ago now. It’s essentially a database of screenshots and associated metadata.
Fashionably late as usual 😅
All I'm going to say bravo GigaChad Trafotin as for Windows Recall its Sucks even more especially in the security department screw "AI enhancing features' when these Arm Laptops are Locked Down And doesn't let Disable Secure Boot at all for the sake of " Linux/ETC is bad"
the only thing worse than be talked about is not being talked about
The Ryzen 9000 series with NPUs start coming out next month and the next gen from Intel will have NPUs. Evilcorp is winning.
Microsoft pluton was already on the AMD 6000 series
It's time to get this NPU to work on Linux
Recall is a very poor application of AI. The use case demonstrated by the Recall program manager will only ever benefit a very small number of users. Recall will be counterproductive most of the time.
The system must be really simple and dumb if they require screenshots to ascertain information like this. Part of me wonders if there would be an easier way to do this like text logging of user activities.They already collect that information in telemetry.
@@Trafotin They try to do that on my systems, but I block outbound connections to Microsoft's data collection services. Everyone should do the same.
The thing with Recall is that even if you give all possible benefit of the doubt, it's still frightening they thought such a feature was a good idea in the first place. 🙈
Thankfully they keep it contained to hardware I don't give a damn about, -NPCs- NPUs included. 😂
As long as there's a registry key, policy setting for this feature it's not a big deal in the end. But yes, I do agree Micorshaft has gone to far on this one. We haven't had privacy for the past 40+ years since the digital age arrived. They already know my porn habits do I want them screen shotting them? No....
I can totally picture Satya watching your video and answering "in your dreams I will support your channel!".
Don't worry, I had a dream the other night former lawyer bird now President Brad Smith found me and complemented my channel while probably hating my guts.
there's no built-in language model on an npu. they just run the code. and microsoft can't dispell the rumors because they're not open source. everything they say is just "trust me bro" levels of credibility. and no matter what you say, you just cannot proper analyze closed source. it's super easy to "hide" behaviors under the curtains and you're extremely naive to think it's not. microsoft was even careful with their wording: they don't take the screenshots of your computer. now the abstraction of them by the AI? ah, those are fair game. they didn't mention it at all, after all.
plus just having a log of everything you do on your pc is serving a hacker, or even those tech support scammers if you're vulnerable to them, your life on a platter, even if everything happens locally.
Recall is a truly diSUSter
Trafotin, btw I recommend the Solaar Flatpak for your Logitech Mouse. It's able to show an actual Battery Icon, but weirdly it only works with th Papirus Icon theme.
I'm using it right now; I use Bluefin.
Interestingly Google announced to to the same on ChromeOS but nobody seems to care. So either because nobody is using Chromebooks or the timing was very smart as everyone was looking at Microsoft.
And Apple pulled the same thing with Sequoia and iOS 17. Yet here we are and nobody gives them crap for it.
I see recall and think of all the clear my browser history skits
Its still spyware no matter what they say. And theirs already videos on people showing how easy it is to hack a computer and gather that info. Horrible idea. Good thong i only use windows gor gaming. Everything else i do it on linux. Fk Microsoft
Good video with some thoughtful points I haven't seen made elsewhere. "Platform decay" is a funny but less descriptive alternative to ensh*fication.
Aside from performance/privacy/security concerns, I really question the usefulness of Recall. A marginally organized person will have saved (to a folder, notes app, bookmark, or at least have in their browser history) the large majority of items they need for future reference. While law enforcement and overly-zealous middle managers may love it as a way to catch miscreants, I'd think corporate compliance officers, fearing the dreaded "...hereby ordered to retain all pertinent records..." letter from the DA, wouldn't be fans.
I think the reverse will be true for corporate compliance. I didn't talk about it, but Recall will likely be integrated with Fabric, which will allow admins to do post-investigation on their employees better. No compliance officer would say no to that because of the value it would bring for HR to play Big Brother. On the usefulness of Recall, I think Recall is a good idea, but it's a half-baked implementation from one of the most neglected factions in Microsoft. There has to be a more power efficient and better way to do this that to rely on AI.
@@Trafotinmaybe in the US but clearly not in Europe where everyone is paranoid on this.
But as usual Windows users won't give a shit. Recall will be opt-in instead off opt-out because of privacy.
There was a blog post from Pavan, head of Windows, June 7th that addressed this and said it was opt-in.
what stack do you use for your avatar?
I hope you do a follow-up video on how scripts are being developed to expose exactly what Recall is saving. Sadly Mental Outlaw slightly ninja’d you on that :/
Every big corp’s blunder just makes us smarter… for the blunders that we notice.
What if I set the allowed storage to 0 bytes?
You could just turn it off...
If you fill your hard drive can it still record
Where if you read Kevin Beaumont's paper, it does stay off if you turn it off. Recall is not that big of a deal. It's just another annoyance in Windows to turn off and no doubt I will get people complaining about running out of space because of this.
@@Trafotin thank you
Funny you say it should work with other browsers (copilot) because if you are like me and remove edge it does not work with them it BLOCKS them from working meaning likely its basicly taking all the data from the other browsers for Microsoft thru copilot thru edge data they likely collect.
Poor Microshaft cattle that have to use this garbage for work or other reasons. I would start citing religious reasons as to why i can no longer use Windows.
Please don't. You'll end up on Reddit like that crazy lady who said the same thing.
Thanks for the video.
Same like the always on DRM on Xbox. Now is in and nobody says anything.
Level 4 with no items? Seems like they used `/xp add` for that lol
good content but the background music is terrible
Just stay with Windows 10 LTSC .....
Good luck in 2025. If this sort of thing bothers you, it's time to plan to move to Mac or Linux. You've got a little over a year left.
@@TrafotinLInux is a good distro for developers but not for the normal people, too much tinkering and not enough compatability.
If win 95 still supported i will use it now at this f-cking moment
if you like using Linux, you could use Chicago95 to get a Windows 95 interface on Linux.
LOL
5:44