Workstation laptops have always been loud and hot. After all, the mobile cooling system has to manage the heat generated by a desktop CPU/GPU drawing up to 280W of power. You should switch to the battery profile if you don't need to use the system at full power.
I did use the power-saving profile in all use cases and could not get a discernible improvement except with tlp. I'm more than willing to blame Nvidia because I agree graphics cards are power hungry.
I got a System76 Thelio Major r4 with an AMD 7950X CPU and a Radeon 6700XT around the same time you got the Adder. Zero complaints with System76 or the machine itself, though I've had some weirdness here and there that I suspect has to do with the Linux kernel itself. Oh ... and I didn't get a t-shirt or even stickers😢
That is weird. It was a promotional deal thing when I was doing it and they sent me the full package. They don't even know about my channel, so no reason for preferential treatment. Maybe it was only for the laptops.
I do not speak geek or talk tech but I understood learned, and appreciate your input on the safeguards of the intel boot process. I’ve watched a few reviews now on the system and this was unique and good info to learn. Thank you!
You have no idea how happy your review made me. I got an unexpected but very much wanted proof that you can run DaVinci Resolve on Leenux. I been using it on an old Mac I have, and fell in love with that editor (though I hate with a passion it does not accept WEBM video as source..... and perhaps h265 MP4?). Something I've been worried about is now gone. Another thing is of course honesty. Though I will probably never be on the receiving end of those flaws. My perfect screen is a matte 144 RGB 1080p. I only wish when I pull the trigger, they still have a 17 inch model with such a screen.
Resolve accepts WEBM, but not H264 on the free version. If you use Studio (I do), it works fine. But if you are happy using Mac, I'd recommend bumping it up when Apple announces whatever the newest M-series Pro (M4 Pro?) is. If not, probably buy a different computer. You will get your money's worth and security somewhere else.
Except you can read the documents and they back up their claims pretty reliably. The talks I showed are from Lennart Pottering (creator of systemd), Richard Brown (Chair of openSUSE), and Matthew Garrett (long time advocate for secure hardware on Linux, used to work at Red Hat/Google). The industry is moving in this direction and this is what people need to keep in mind when purchasing, never mind the volatility of Microsoft forcing people to use NPUs.
@@Trafotin The NSA does not agree. They worked with Intel to add a property to disable the ME to prevent possible side-channel attacks on their equipment. They explicitly request hardware vendors to disable ME at the factory when they're purchasing new hardware. Vulnerabilities are frequently found in the ME, which can be mitigated by simply not exposing the ME at all. Such as CVE-2017-5705 through CVE-2017-5712. A quote from Intel: "In response to requests from customers with specialized requirements, we sometimes explore the modification or disabling of certain features. In this case, the modifications were made at the request of equipment manufacturers in support of their customer’s evaluation of the U.S. government’s “High Assurance Platform” program"
I use DaVinci Resolve for editing and Nvidia performance is pretty reliant on your distro. I use uBlue's Bluefin right now, but was using normal Fedora when this was recorded.
The problem with the Intel Management Engine is that it has/had some major security exploits that can't be patched out with software updates (I have had to disable it on a lot of older systems for that reason). Its not a conspiracy to be worried about known exploits. Hardware backed disk encryption absolutely is important, but forcing it down normal users' throats at the cost of their data integrity is the reason nobody wants it. Some people (including myself) strongly believe that its a strength of Linux to be able to take an existing install on one system and swap the drive to another in the event of system failure.
Security should not only be forced onto people, it should be the default. If you don't like it, turn it off. You can absolutely swap a drive with TPM, just take precautions to disable it before you do. If people are going to spread FUD about something and don't present any proof, I'm less likely to listen to those cases. Right now, the ME is necessary for basic security features, default in Windows 11 and supported on Linux.
@@Trafotin The issue with enabling TPM and disk encryption by default is that most normal users who don't know don't care about the cybersecurity zeitgeist aren't going save their bitlocker keys and most don't even back up their data. I had a laptop a few years ago that got borked because of a WINDOWS UPDATE and because I ignored the popup to backup the bitlocker key when I first setup the laptop I had to re-image the drive. Thankfully, I didn't have anything important on that laptop but that device came OTB setup with bitlocker enabled. The problem I have with these decisions isn't with the technology itself or the use thereof but the fact these massive corporations like Microsoft think they know best for you. Sure, everyone SHOULD have full disk encryption and regularly backup their files and keep every password and encryption key they have ever made hand written in a notebook locked away someplace safe...but most people don't. Its a big ask to expect people not involved in the zeitgeist to conform their workflow to "best practices" especially when the cost of being ignorant is all the data on your computer.
9:50 fan noise - oh I remember when I bought a Lemur laptop from System76 years ago and the fan noise was atrocious. That experience was so bad that now I only use (admittedly less-powerful) fanless machines. I very occasionally play games on Switch but I never game on my PC so that helps.
They say that TLP doesn't work on Fedora as intended: - Power saving profiles are not applied when switching from AC to battery (or vice versa) - The Radio Device Wizard does not work - Trace mode does not work How did you get it to work?
The boot and EFI partitions require root to write to, so you’d already be screwed if an attacker can comprise your through the boot process. Secure Boot was made to be used in tandem with antivirus, as it prevents malware from running before the antivirus and establishing persistence through primacy. Being unable to password-protect the firmware is an issue, though, because that feature can mitigate physical access threats. Everything else is simply defense in depth; it’s good to have for the sake of stopping zero-days, but not absolutely necessary to have a secure device. IME may introduce its own vulnerabilities, and System76 has announced disabling it a couple of times for that reason. But maybe I’m mistaken or missing something important. Let me know.
ME is disabled due to security risk from firmware vulnerabilities, and demand for systems with ME disabled in the factory firmware. It is much the same reason that we use systemd-boot in Pop instead of GRUB. It's one of the reasons why we want open firmware. There is less surface area for vulnerabilities to exploit. Most systems in the wild today are vulnerable to the ME firmware exploits in one form or another. It's not necessary to continue running the ME after the system has initialized, so we disable it.
I can sympathize with the historical vulnerabilities of the ME, but even if you disable ME, the firmware is still missing Boot Guard and other certifications. I said in the video 99% of people will not care, but computer users are left guessing because Microsoft has a proclivity for making really crazy hardware decisions. Boot Guard and Pluton work on Linux and I personally classify that as a higher priority than disabling the ME. In an ideal world, both are accomplished, but much of the space is filled purely people purchasing disabled ME machines out of paranoia rather than looking into it.
I understand your issue with secure boot but Iam sorry bro, IME doesn't offer any extra security. Security by obscurity is not secure at all, just look at the recent hack of tpm on lenovo. It's literally a backdoor creating an additional attack surface. Other linux manufactures like slimbook, tuxedo, starlabs are trying hard to ship disabled ME. And disabled ME is literally the best reason to go for sys76
Framework is still a relatively small company and even if you want a 16, they're backordered to Q3 at the earliest. It's hard to draw a comparison when you can't buy the competition. (Note: I have a Framework Laptop 16)
Humble brag. In all seriousness, I would think about it, but I need GPU power and a gaming laptop felt like a better choice. Plus Framework 16's so expensive! 😭
@@TrafotinI will grant you that it is expensive, but it does have the GPU that you can upgrade later down the line. There's also the solid iGPU in the AMD processor if you want to go without the dGPU to save some money now and get it later.
Inflation unfortunately exists. As I said, this is a stop gap and the end of Windows 10 and the NPU craze might be when I consider rebuilding my desktop.
Things like TPM and IME are just monopolistic measures so the user (who owns the laptop btw, not the megacorps) can't run alternative OS's like Linux and knowing they want to lock the user out of their Hard and software so yeah I am with System76 on this one because both are just (TPM and IME) is just proprietary bullshit which seeks to impair my way of using my hard and software how I see fit while at the same time are anti user because when I buy a laptop it is MY laptop not the laptop of M$ or Intel.
Guess you better drop the other proprietary hardware in your computer too. Tough caboodles, but IME and TPM are part of modern hardware security. In the age of Windows 11 and trusted computing, the downsides of potentially being hacked by your ME are far outweighed by the security benefits. It's all been supported on Linux for years.
radical opinion: the RUclipsr who erased his DE shouldn't be allowed to use anything but a commercial OS. he's just not willing to do the digging and research.
They only issue updates on a Friday, which is just ridiculous. On top of that, they disappeared for over a year and only started doing stuff again recently. You can't just abandon your users like this and this isn't the first time this has happened with them, because the same thing happened when Ikey (now runs Serpent OS) ghosted them for months and left the project. SUSE Tumbleweed or Fedora would be a better pick.
@@Trafotin I don't want to be *the* "akshually" guy but I have to correct you a little. I've been running Solus on my media laptop for over 4 years at this point & I have only positive things to say about the distro itself. While yes, it's true that they do issue updates on fridays, it's not the whole story; they do issue updates on other days of the week as well but only if it's smaller stuff, like a few packages they just had to update to not break functionality etc. where as fridays are usually reserved for the big updates with 1GB+ in size (you can often find Discord having an update on a random week day). As for them leaving their community abandoned, it's true & that time sucked as there were no OS updates but they were gone for 3 months, not a year like you say. After them coming back with better management & staff, I have to say that Solus never felt better like it does now, you can feel the entire distro & people involved with it "run smoother" overall & the updates are plenty. Since the 4 years ago that I installed Solus, I have never doubted it & will continue using it in the future as it's just *the* distro for me as it has a bright future even if it is an underdog
I am not a fan of System 76 at all. Their OS always breaks for me, most Clevo laptops (including the P775TM1-G I am currently using) used to provide replaceable GPUs and desktop class CPUs, and I don't like their overpricing stuff. Neither am I a fan of the name, it's implications or the way these guys approach Linux in general. But that laptop seems to be a very capable machine.
They aren't overpricing as much as you are supporting their work for desktop Linux and the labor for their American workers. There's a reason most companies resort to outsourcing their work.
@@Trafotin Really? How much of their profit is passed on to these so-called "American workers"? How much of a decision making power do these "American workers" have in the company? What about those "American workers" who do not want to be associated with genocidal 76 connotation in the name? Don't try to pass off capitalist posturing as some sort of social agenda. System 76 is a racket. Just like every other corporation. What makes them extra scummy is the posturing. No thanks. I will buy a normal laptop and install GNU/Linux myself. Hell, I will use Windows 11 with all its telemetry before I give a single cent to System 76.
The fact that they neuter the IME is the best thing about this manufacturer in my opinion
Workstation laptops have always been loud and hot. After all, the mobile cooling system has to manage the heat generated by a desktop CPU/GPU drawing up to 280W of power. You should switch to the battery profile if you don't need to use the system at full power.
I did use the power-saving profile in all use cases and could not get a discernible improvement except with tlp. I'm more than willing to blame Nvidia because I agree graphics cards are power hungry.
@@Trafotin also on linux for now you cant deactivate it
I don't think the sticker implies you can't remove RAM to keep your warranty. It implies you can't remove the sticker from the RAM.
I got a System76 Thelio Major r4 with an AMD 7950X CPU and a Radeon 6700XT around the same time you got the Adder. Zero complaints with System76 or the machine itself, though I've had some weirdness here and there that I suspect has to do with the Linux kernel itself. Oh ... and I didn't get a t-shirt or even stickers😢
the last one is a travesty
That is weird. It was a promotional deal thing when I was doing it and they sent me the full package. They don't even know about my channel, so no reason for preferential treatment. Maybe it was only for the laptops.
How’s the battery life & heat on the AMD variant?
I wish System76 was avilable in my country, their loptops look so good
I do not speak geek or talk tech but I understood learned, and appreciate your input on the safeguards of the intel boot process. I’ve watched a few reviews now on the system and this was unique and good info to learn. Thank you!
You have no idea how happy your review made me. I got an unexpected but very much wanted proof that you can run DaVinci Resolve on Leenux. I been using it on an old Mac I have, and fell in love with that editor (though I hate with a passion it does not accept WEBM video as source..... and perhaps h265 MP4?). Something I've been worried about is now gone. Another thing is of course honesty. Though I will probably never be on the receiving end of those flaws.
My perfect screen is a matte 144 RGB 1080p. I only wish when I pull the trigger, they still have a 17 inch model with such a screen.
Resolve accepts WEBM, but not H264 on the free version. If you use Studio (I do), it works fine. But if you are happy using Mac, I'd recommend bumping it up when Apple announces whatever the newest M-series Pro (M4 Pro?) is. If not, probably buy a different computer. You will get your money's worth and security somewhere else.
@@Trafotin I assume that was a mistake on your part, about the formats. If paid version accepts WEBM, then great. And yes, free accepts h264.
IME disablement is the primary reason I would consider getting a System 76 machine. And I wouldn't trust anything Microsoft tells me.
Except you can read the documents and they back up their claims pretty reliably. The talks I showed are from Lennart Pottering (creator of systemd), Richard Brown (Chair of openSUSE), and Matthew Garrett (long time advocate for secure hardware on Linux, used to work at Red Hat/Google). The industry is moving in this direction and this is what people need to keep in mind when purchasing, never mind the volatility of Microsoft forcing people to use NPUs.
@@Trafotin The NSA does not agree. They worked with Intel to add a property to disable the ME to prevent possible side-channel attacks on their equipment. They explicitly request hardware vendors to disable ME at the factory when they're purchasing new hardware. Vulnerabilities are frequently found in the ME, which can be mitigated by simply not exposing the ME at all. Such as CVE-2017-5705 through CVE-2017-5712.
A quote from Intel: "In response to requests from customers with specialized requirements, we sometimes explore the modification or disabling of certain features. In this case, the modifications were made at the request of equipment manufacturers in support of their customer’s evaluation of the U.S. government’s “High Assurance Platform” program"
congrats on supporting system76 Mr Matt
Is this good for 3D modeling and rendering in Blender 3D? I read that POP!_OS is quite compatible with Nvidia graphics cards.
I use DaVinci Resolve for editing and Nvidia performance is pretty reliant on your distro. I use uBlue's Bluefin right now, but was using normal Fedora when this was recorded.
The problem with the Intel Management Engine is that it has/had some major security exploits that can't be patched out with software updates (I have had to disable it on a lot of older systems for that reason). Its not a conspiracy to be worried about known exploits. Hardware backed disk encryption absolutely is important, but forcing it down normal users' throats at the cost of their data integrity is the reason nobody wants it. Some people (including myself) strongly believe that its a strength of Linux to be able to take an existing install on one system and swap the drive to another in the event of system failure.
Security should not only be forced onto people, it should be the default. If you don't like it, turn it off. You can absolutely swap a drive with TPM, just take precautions to disable it before you do. If people are going to spread FUD about something and don't present any proof, I'm less likely to listen to those cases. Right now, the ME is necessary for basic security features, default in Windows 11 and supported on Linux.
@@Trafotin The issue with enabling TPM and disk encryption by default is that most normal users who don't know don't care about the cybersecurity zeitgeist aren't going save their bitlocker keys and most don't even back up their data. I had a laptop a few years ago that got borked because of a WINDOWS UPDATE and because I ignored the popup to backup the bitlocker key when I first setup the laptop I had to re-image the drive. Thankfully, I didn't have anything important on that laptop but that device came OTB setup with bitlocker enabled. The problem I have with these decisions isn't with the technology itself or the use thereof but the fact these massive corporations like Microsoft think they know best for you. Sure, everyone SHOULD have full disk encryption and regularly backup their files and keep every password and encryption key they have ever made hand written in a notebook locked away someplace safe...but most people don't. Its a big ask to expect people not involved in the zeitgeist to conform their workflow to "best practices" especially when the cost of being ignorant is all the data on your computer.
MAN that laptop has a lot of cores...
9:50 fan noise - oh I remember when I bought a Lemur laptop from System76 years ago and the fan noise was atrocious.
That experience was so bad that now I only use (admittedly less-powerful) fanless machines.
I very occasionally play games on Switch but I never game on my PC so that helps.
1080, I remember when those used to be equivalent to 4080 today.
They say that TLP doesn't work on Fedora as intended:
- Power saving profiles are not applied when switching from AC to battery (or vice versa)
- The Radio Device Wizard does not work
- Trace mode does not work
How did you get it to work?
Who is "they?"
@@Trafotin Official documentation.
wich program do you use for editing
DaVinci Resolve. I said so in the video.
@@Trafotin ups sorry
Subscribed because i like your style.
The boot and EFI partitions require root to write to, so you’d already be screwed if an attacker can comprise your through the boot process. Secure Boot was made to be used in tandem with antivirus, as it prevents malware from running before the antivirus and establishing persistence through primacy. Being unable to password-protect the firmware is an issue, though, because that feature can mitigate physical access threats. Everything else is simply defense in depth; it’s good to have for the sake of stopping zero-days, but not absolutely necessary to have a secure device. IME may introduce its own vulnerabilities, and System76 has announced disabling it a couple of times for that reason. But maybe I’m mistaken or missing something important. Let me know.
ME is disabled due to security risk from firmware vulnerabilities, and demand for systems with ME disabled in the factory firmware. It is much the same reason that we use systemd-boot in Pop instead of GRUB. It's one of the reasons why we want open firmware. There is less surface area for vulnerabilities to exploit. Most systems in the wild today are vulnerable to the ME firmware exploits in one form or another. It's not necessary to continue running the ME after the system has initialized, so we disable it.
I can sympathize with the historical vulnerabilities of the ME, but even if you disable ME, the firmware is still missing Boot Guard and other certifications. I said in the video 99% of people will not care, but computer users are left guessing because Microsoft has a proclivity for making really crazy hardware decisions. Boot Guard and Pluton work on Linux and I personally classify that as a higher priority than disabling the ME. In an ideal world, both are accomplished, but much of the space is filled purely people purchasing disabled ME machines out of paranoia rather than looking into it.
I understand your issue with secure boot but Iam sorry bro, IME doesn't offer any extra security. Security by obscurity is not secure at all, just look at the recent hack of tpm on lenovo. It's literally a backdoor creating an additional attack surface. Other linux manufactures like slimbook, tuxedo, starlabs are trying hard to ship disabled ME. And disabled ME is literally the best reason to go for sys76
Proof of backdoor? If you can't provide any technical reason, this is the paranoia I am talking about.
Why didn't you mention framework laptops?
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't buy one just curious why you didn't bring them up
Framework is still a relatively small company and even if you want a 16, they're backordered to Q3 at the earliest. It's hard to draw a comparison when you can't buy the competition. (Note: I have a Framework Laptop 16)
Humble brag. In all seriousness, I would think about it, but I need GPU power and a gaming laptop felt like a better choice. Plus Framework 16's so expensive! 😭
@@Trafotin that's fair, was just surprised they weren't mentioned at all like you did with the Librem laptops
@@TrafotinI will grant you that it is expensive, but it does have the GPU that you can upgrade later down the line. There's also the solid iGPU in the AMD processor if you want to go without the dGPU to save some money now and get it later.
Wait you stream? Where to?
Like 2 times? Just here.
music name at the end ?
See the description or my website for a track listing.
In 2024 the Adder WS is $2012 USD with the upgrades mentioned in the video
Inflation unfortunately exists. As I said, this is a stop gap and the end of Windows 10 and the NPU craze might be when I consider rebuilding my desktop.
@@Trafotin if system76 wasn't so expensive compared to local laptop builders in my country (Australia) then I'd buy one
Things like TPM and IME are just monopolistic measures so the user (who owns the laptop btw, not the megacorps) can't run alternative OS's like Linux and knowing they want to lock the user out of their Hard and software so yeah I am with System76 on this one because both are just (TPM and IME) is just proprietary bullshit which seeks to impair my way of using my hard and software how I see fit while at the same time are anti user because when I buy a laptop it is MY laptop not the laptop of M$ or Intel.
Guess you better drop the other proprietary hardware in your computer too. Tough caboodles, but IME and TPM are part of modern hardware security. In the age of Windows 11 and trusted computing, the downsides of potentially being hacked by your ME are far outweighed by the security benefits. It's all been supported on Linux for years.
wbqt do you mean? You can install linux on any machine with this
nice video but why the laptop is so oily 8:53
Yogurt
just touching it smears off my skin
radical opinion: the RUclipsr who erased his DE shouldn't be allowed to use anything but a commercial OS. he's just not willing to do the digging and research.
But he did and went to a bungled Arch Linux wannabe...
SeKurity muppet show :p
30 day Solus distro challenge? It's also a rolling release
They only issue updates on a Friday, which is just ridiculous. On top of that, they disappeared for over a year and only started doing stuff again recently. You can't just abandon your users like this and this isn't the first time this has happened with them, because the same thing happened when Ikey (now runs Serpent OS) ghosted them for months and left the project. SUSE Tumbleweed or Fedora would be a better pick.
@@Trafotin I don't want to be *the* "akshually" guy but I have to correct you a little. I've been running Solus on my media laptop for over 4 years at this point & I have only positive things to say about the distro itself. While yes, it's true that they do issue updates on fridays, it's not the whole story; they do issue updates on other days of the week as well but only if it's smaller stuff, like a few packages they just had to update to not break functionality etc. where as fridays are usually reserved for the big updates with 1GB+ in size (you can often find Discord having an update on a random week day). As for them leaving their community abandoned, it's true & that time sucked as there were no OS updates but they were gone for 3 months, not a year like you say. After them coming back with better management & staff, I have to say that Solus never felt better like it does now, you can feel the entire distro & people involved with it "run smoother" overall & the updates are plenty. Since the 4 years ago that I installed Solus, I have never doubted it & will continue using it in the future as it's just *the* distro for me as it has a bright future even if it is an underdog
@Trafotin. Off topic but do you think SUSE Slow Roll is a good concept?
What good is a rolling release if it doesn't have any packages?
Maybe hire a hand model without nail fungus / psoriasis / gang hand tattoos so they don't have to wear gloves.
Actually, I am a severe burn victim and need special treatment in removing my gloves, thank you very much Dave.
My apologies.
not cool dude
I would buy one, but they’re not available in my country
I am not a fan of System 76 at all. Their OS always breaks for me, most Clevo laptops (including the P775TM1-G I am currently using) used to provide replaceable GPUs and desktop class CPUs, and I don't like their overpricing stuff. Neither am I a fan of the name, it's implications or the way these guys approach Linux in general. But that laptop seems to be a very capable machine.
They aren't overpricing as much as you are supporting their work for desktop Linux and the labor for their American workers. There's a reason most companies resort to outsourcing their work.
@@Trafotin Really? How much of their profit is passed on to these so-called "American workers"? How much of a decision making power do these "American workers" have in the company? What about those "American workers" who do not want to be associated with genocidal 76 connotation in the name? Don't try to pass off capitalist posturing as some sort of social agenda. System 76 is a racket. Just like every other corporation. What makes them extra scummy is the posturing.
No thanks. I will buy a normal laptop and install GNU/Linux myself. Hell, I will use Windows 11 with all its telemetry before I give a single cent to System 76.