KimPossible The irony of a blonde women attempting to correct an INTJ male ;) Bam how's that a generalisation for ya gorgeous? I win RUclips hands down
Shane Rene Because I'm blonde, that's supposed to be ironic? The fact that I am also an INTJ must be irrelevant then. In every etymology source I have seen, there is no discrepancy between narcissism and narcism because "narcism" is simply is one of those instances of a word so commonly misspelled that it has become accepted in some circles; much like "sherbet" is commonly mispronounced as "sherbert," or "espresso" is mispronounced as "expresso."
KimPossible First of all, you considered this particular INTJ to be narcissistic. I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion, but regardless, he is a valued member at NFGEEKS and as far as his non-existent psychological evaluation conducted by you and your team of medical experts is concerned, is in fact not narcissistic. To answer your question directly, I will ask you a question: So it's supposed to be ironic when a, by your standards, INTJ makes a mistake about the personality disorder he does not have? Or is it when an INTJ makes a mistake in general? Regardless, there is without a doubt irony in a "blonde attempting to correct an INTJ" because of the blonde stereotype vs. INTJ stereotype, two contrasting groups in terms of intelligence. As is the consensus... I'm just letting you know, that making generalisations might seem harmless but it most certainly is not, and on that note, making accusations is worse. Peace lovely :)
Shane Rene I think there is some fundamental misunderstanding in the way you interpreted my comments, because I didn't say or imply 90% of what you said. Besides, the guy in the video admits to narcissistic tendencies in INTJs. My initial comment was said in observational jest. I'm not attacking him or anyone else, regardless of how you perceived it.
This is true for anyone else. I will admit I have a large Ego, but I hate others who are narcissistic. This is the same for most people. We are a group that practically defines narcissism.
Two sentences containing four "I" statements which are entirely about you and your thoughts about how egotism in others effects you. Ouch! Goddam the irony..it hurts....
***** " If it was Ironic, he would have said egocentric/ism instead of egotistic/al." Oh, you mean like in the first sentence whee they wrote, "I absolutely despise egotism."? "One could not convey information about their likes/dislikes in the first person without using "I"." Your point here is silly, disliked, and dis-proven by this very sentence. "What is ironic is that your comment was egotistical! Nice self-pwn!" This part was quoted so as to give you a chance to rethink your motivations here. It's like irony inception. Haha
booksRbad Just get off your high horse thinking you're some kind of badass or something. Reality check: this is RUclips. Lol no one cares half as much as you seem to.
As an INTJ, I used to believe like Alex says, in that we "believe" we are right, because we assume the available data allows us to draw a correct conclusion. However, I've learned to understand (and even assume) that I often don't have all the data, and thus, can be incorrect on many things, purely for this reason. A theory is not "true until its proven wrong". Truth is not subject to our access to all the data. Truth is what it is, whether we believe it or not. A mature INTJ would admit this.
As an Intj, I have a desire to "Always be the smartest in the room" but not for status but to see my intellectual limits set up plans and goals to either surpass it or to use it more efficiently.
Have you considered that maybe you're just overly sensitive rather than INTJs being very confident? I mean, have you been on the internet? Everyone is confident that they're right. Being right more often than everyone else and obsessively checking yourself would make anyone more confident.
@Rachel Lapelosa for INTJs our emotions essentially take a back seat to our intuition. We still value emotions, they're just not the top priority. For example: A car dealer hurts my feelings, but the deal he's willing to give me is better than the one I got from the friendlier dealer. Despite my negative emotions, I'll take the better deal.
I am an INTJ. I had asked a friend of mine if I was narcissistic and he said yes. I also know another young INTJ, a computer guy, who talks just like Alex. I think Alex is giving a very honest opinion on one aspect of INTJ's characteristics.
It isn't so much "we believe we are smarter than everyone else", but instead "why can't you be as smart as me?". This creates a different meaning and source of it than the ego.
Well said. I struggle with this ever wondering why people don't prioritize intelligence the way I do. It's a difference of self fulfillment, coming to terms with that isn't the same as treating a personality disorder. 🤣
I'm an INTJ and, after watching may interviews with INTJs, I've come to the conclusion that INTJs are really arrogant. Even though I obviously am one, it's really, really obvious. And irritating.
Yes. They are. And at high risk of NPD. I still like them though, cause i am drawn to people who can hold intelligent conversation. But man, this huge ego thing...what a turn off
My wife and best friend are both INTJ. 99% of the time it's no problem. However, there are some days where it's the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced. I tried explaining to my wife once what I meant about her coming across 'arrogant' and ofc it made it worse. She wanted every term defined and presented a counter argument to everything I said. She's very sweet and so it upset her to upset me but the mix of emotion + heavy reliance on logic was maddening for me. We've figured it out though and she's my favorite person in the world. My guy friend is a straight up son of a bitch, though. Haha jk. He's wicked smart and very practical. I think our fights have taught him to chill out a bit and not come across like a utilitarian android to people. He is impressed by my random knowledge and ability to think outside of the box. Overall, INTJ is my favorite sign. Very interesting, reliable, and loveable people. You just have to show that you sincerely value their LEGO block thought processing and sometimes challenge them to question why they've arrived at a certain conclusion. -INTP
I'm wondering if a type would be inclined towards the opposite of natural narcissism - I'm an 0INFP, and I feel like I'm more verbally apologetic and modest than most of my peers. Perhaps Fi-doms, being especially wary of conflict, are more likely to speak lightly of their own talents or achievements.
Well, I'm not THAT narcissistic. But I do have a feeling that I know what I know pretty damn well. And if someone wants to convince me I'm wrong, then they'd better be able to demonstrate it.But about most things, I'm clueless until I've done my research, and I have no problem admitting that.
I know this is an old thread, but Mike won this one! I love the interaction between you and Alex. Mike knew exactly what he was doing the entire time... this is how to stump an Intj with precision. Alex clearly has to think this over....he will emerge with a superior argument, however this is the illustrates the complex beauty of an enfp/Intj "relationship". Bravo!!!
I think INTJ's are at the highest risk of being NPD. And anti social tendencies. I appreciate them, but then again how can you trust someone at risk of treating you like a toy
I may not be right on everything. With that said the areas where I spend my energy I am right almost every time. If I am not right in my perspective I have no issues finding the issues before I get to that point where I will be wrong. Confidence is often confused with narcissism. I am very confident in my actions. That is often confused by people I encounter.
I am an INTJ and I didn't notice I had any narcissism till someone pointed it out in college and then after mulling it over realized that I did have narcissistic qualities. So I didn't fight about it because I could see it as true. I just never made the connection before XD
I would have to disagree with a fair amount of this. Confidence in a usually deeply thought out and researched position on a topic does not constitute narcissism, though many, especially Feelers might perceive it as such. We are not attached to our own ideas if a demonstrably better, more informed, or more importantly, MORE EFFECTIVE one is presented. However, it has to be demonstrable. Accreditation, reputation, or aggrandizement mean less than nothing. Having dealt with NPD abuse personally, I can confidently say that while INTJs can often be arrogant, especially as a defence mechanism, we are just not wired for what real narcissism is. We can not only look in the mirror and accept our errors, we need to do this in order to learn and grow. In one sentence, I can show you what no narcissist can truly do, but what every INTJ has to do and usually does say, in one way or another: "I fucked up, I admit it, and own it. I will do my best to learn from it, but sooner or later, I will fuck up again, and when I do, I will admit it, own it, and do my best to learn from it then, too." INTJs are hardwired to do that and narcissists are hardwired to never be able to do that. Hope this helps bring a bit more clarity.
Great comment, mate. I am an INTJ female. The best way I have been able to explain it is.. INTJs from birth are emotionally grown up. Narcissists can never grow past a child. We are a misunderstood bunch, INTJs 😄 I have crushing empathy.. but since I have always been an introvert, I have dealt with it alone and found my own solutions.. so I try to do the same for others.. make a pathway forward so they aren't hurting. I understand why that's seen as cold by some types. But it comes from a place of very deep affection when we take the time to actively listen and help. I think INTJs would be better placed next to a high functioning Aspie than a Narcissist. Although we are neither.
@@jhopsi While it is probable that many or even most of us are deeper in the spectrum than a neurotypical, we do not tend to lie in the same fork as Aspies. Our characteristics have some commonalities, but plenty of differences as well. I agree with your assertion.
Based on the definition of a narcissist, I have to disagree that INTJ's are narcissistic... I think the correct term is that we are self-actualized... Definition of self-actualization: The motivation to realize one's own maximum potential and possibilities. It is considered to be the master motive or the only real motive, all other motives being its various forms. It has nothing to do with self adoration... As an INTJ, I always leave the door open for new "facts"... until then, I mean what I say and I say what I mean...
Having a conversation with a person that is open minded is far easier than an ignorant person that doesn't want to consider a thought in the perceived notion that everyone is dumb and there I nothing to learn from them. Knowledge has and always will be power just hear a perspective and grow from It.
I actually realized some flaws in my personality and started studying narcissism, along with sociopathy, before getting into Meyers-Briggs types and discovering I was an INTJ. I've always wondered if acts of selflessness are really just learned behaviors that make people feel important or significant, so they continue to do these acts out of an unknowingly selfish desire.
Shannon Austin No one would do anything for others if there wasn't some deep selfish desire. For ISFJs, that "selfish" desire when they make sacrifices is knowing that other people are happy. They feel that happiness inside themselves when others are happy, and a lot of the time that's all they need to get by. On the other hand, ENTJs don't really care as much about other people's feeling or well being. They will get everything that makes them happy the most efficient way possible, while trying to keep a group of friends to support them.
Haha, this guy's position is... SHAKY. (understatement, ...fading toward complete dismissal...) Narcissism is an exaggerated preoccupation with the self which treats others as extensions of self-aggrandizing ego. It is usually a result of compensation for some deep wound in the psyche. Introversion may be rooted in defensive postures which lead to behaviors that are parallel to narcissism, but needn't be equivocated with them, any more than someone who rambles is necessarily schizophrenic. Now, if it turns out that anyone who IS an introvert finds sound ethical and pragmatic reasons for refusing to dole out his or her energy to others' supposedly socially acceptable manner of demanding attention not due, then that might look narcissistic. So be it. In some cases it really complements a narcissistic condition. But it can happen simply because it is the best decision the introvert can make given all the facts that he finds exist, and based on the way that they matter to him. Label him what you want, but he's probably too busy to give a damn about your confusion. Extroverts are about getting along, and will often go along as much as they have to in order to do that. They aren't internally busy beyond the limits of this preference. "Introverts" are not willing, perhaps not able, to follow that take. Perhaps first they weren't able, then developed on paths that also made them unwilling. But sometimes they just aren't willing to humor the mob.
The Gnostic Truth That's wisdom from an observant and intellectually developed individual. About the last paragraph: Yes, when we're young, we are unable and find difficulty in it. However, when we mature, we discover we can if we want... but we really don't want to. It's not worth it.
MrHardCash It is one of life's many under-appreciated ironies. It is the world's way of "hitting on" those it most covets to submit to its agenda. When someone really wants a certain horse, they work on breaking its spirit more. It's stupid and evil, but it is the only way to "take possession" of what is coveted, so that the Spirit within will serve through the flesh bag. But the Spirit is UNWILLING, though the flesh may be eager and even able. But if the Spirit is STRONG, then the body, no matter how willing or able, will NOT submit, and will sabotage the evil process of indoctrination into the world. It is one of the harsh realities of the world, and it is the necessary precursor to the Initiation of the Spirit. Most do not even have a True Spirit to break, and many among those who do simply disengage and do not function in the world at all, in ANY way. The rest are on a gradation of functionality which approaches an acme in forms which only myths can make tangible.
Yeah, I wish he'd define what he means by 'narcissism', because he's clearly not using the proper scientific definition of it. For example he says he's 'narcissistic', but nobody with even some narc tendencies would ever admit to this
I think the word is conceited- an excessively favorable opinion of one's own ability, importance, wit, etc. As for the whole "narcissism" ordeal, I have to agree with you Mike. I definitely don't think narcissism is the right word. I think the right word is actually "cynicism" since IN (Introverted/Intuitive)s constantly feel betrayed and are often disappointed by others, and as a result, they think more highly of themselves.
I am interested in the concept of "conspiracy therories" as it relates to Narcissism and Myers Briggs assesement. Since you are a Psch and Philosophy teacher I am interested in your viewpoints particularily how it works with NF/NT particularily since these types particularily view thier own judgements over all others. Or is this something you have possibly covered in another video, or if you think this is a discussion that has worth within your forum.
Egoism is the ethical consequentialist theory that an action is good if the outcome is good for the self. Narcissism is the dysfunction or pathology of being unhealthily self absorbed in such a way that that all things are in relation to the self either as objects of use or of experience and having no real understanding of empathy. The two are not necessarily synonyms but do interconnect with each other. Where one is the other can be found.
INTJ female here. First off, I believe that INTJ's are empaths. We see everything, we feel deeply, and based on patterns, we can be pretty accurate when it comes to prediction. BUT, since we are so susceptible to becoming overwhelmed in uncontrolled environment (ie: loud noises, bright lights, frequent high energy of any kind including the energy people give off), in order to protect ourselves from over analyzing everything and breaking our brains, we have to isolate ourselves to shuffle through the noise to think clearly. We have empathy, but our tolerance for irrational stimuli is just low. This isolation inevitably allows us to pick apart things we've been exposed to, and think deeply about them for hours without distraction, which ultimately makes us "experts" in whatever we've been exposed to. So when people come into our protective bubble and state their opinions, we most likely have a thought out opinion and explanation that could and probably will counteract your opinion. When this happens, these thought out opinions of ours, and how we deliver them, make us seem cold, narcissistic, or egotistical. But in reality, we've just isolated ourselves for so long, researched things thoroughly due to our need for mental stimulation, and have just logically thought things through. For the most part, I'm right a lot of the time due to this behavior. BUT I can be wrong too and make mistakes. When someone thinks I'm wrong, in order to fully convince me that I am wrong, using knowledge that trumps my own will get me to bow down and say, "Yeah, you're right." And to be honest I LOVE when that happens. It forces me to think (which I love), it challenges my own views (which debates are always welcomed) and chances are I will respect you a lot more because you have logically and calmly outsmarted me.
About a year ago I began skimming through all of my mothers college textbooks absorbing as much as I could retain. Along the way I came across the Meyer-briggs system and was immediately hooked onto a new topic. After plenty of research I came to a conclusion, I'm an INTJ. Later on I was asked to take an IQ test in school and received 134 surprising my instructor and my mother. Intellect has always ran in my family, just not the best of luck with my mom... Shes been through a lot, and so have I.
Was the word you were looking for self-centred? That's the first thing that came to mind when you said that. Although its connotations are rather negative...
@ 8:10 - STOP! Stop! You're letting out our primary secret! looool - It's a thing I've always struggled with and wanted to overcome, as I see it as a negative trait. Secretly thinking I'm far more intelligent than most. But the people around me aren't doing a great job convincing me otherwise.
Thank you for all your videos incidently........I am an INTJ and I know few Rationals but many NF's, introverted NF's anyway, and your forums are both fun, serious and informative. You certainly have access to many genuinely honest and thoughtful "interviewee's" accross the MyersBriggs spectrum, and I appreciate these videos very much.
I don't know if its a youtube technical issue, or an issue with this video, but the video seems to lag behind (running at a slower speed) than the audio.
+zombiedude347 After watching more of the video, it appears that the video and audio are simply out of sync and the video is actually ahead of the audio. The reason that the video appears sluggish compared to the audio may be purely psychological.
As an INFJ, I find we have a very similar sort of arrogance to the INTJ. It really does come from having such certainty about one particular researched subject (in the case of the INTJ), or characeristic/motive/overall sense we get from a person (in the INFJs case) by "just knowing". -
....and after continuing to watch the video, yes, INFP-INFJ self-absorbed behavior is definitely present, but I think it's harder to express to others unless something was taken as a personal attack. I don't think that mindset is as out in the open as it is for NTs.
Mike. I'm really conflicted on two points. I'm an INFJ. I am really empathetic, and extroverted in my feeling sense with people, however, a family member betrayed me more than once. Now I cannot find a shred of emotion, empathy or anything for her. it conflicts with my nature, but I thought it was an INFJ thing to, umm..not do that. Secondly, I also use similar reasoning to Alex, in that, at times I judge people's intellectual worthiness. What is happening? is this normal for INFJ's?
What would you call it when I test mostly intj but I also have the ability to be somewhat extroverted and entertaining? My personality is for sure intj, but when I volunteer or give a presentation, I act like a different person. It's still me, I have control over my actions, but it's almost as if I'm on some sort of drug. The thoughts and actions I normally see as a waste of time or too much work, are let through. Like if my filter is gone, and I have all the energy in the world.
extroverted and introverted people use two different neurotransmitters (dopamine or acetylcholine) as their primary brain neurotransmitters. Every once it a while, your brain decides to switch, and when this happens you go from acting introverted to extroverted, or vice versa, temporarily.
Another factor which lends to a perception of self-centered INTJs is our reaction to how other personality types treat our ideas. Often times I'll do significant work on developing a framework before the first meeting of a group project. I didn't even realize I would do this for years, and it happens naturally. Nor am I even sure how to describe the process, but it happens and I don't feel comfortable entering a group setting unless I've done this.
I really don't get all these INTJs I see lauding these stereotypes of themselves as though it's true. It sounds like they wish they were Dr. Evil from Austin Powers or something when really they are just normal, caring people like everyone else.
Self righteous and condescending. I've been called that and could see why. I do look down on illogical arguments. Self righteous? Nah. I just make sure my actions align with what I know is right and am critical of anyone who doesn't.
do you know how those other intj's have been tested? unless it's by someone who knows what they are doing, it's likely they've been mistyped. it is also very easy to identify with another intj when you've read an article or two on the personality type. there are variations, but there's a certain point at which it just doesn't fit the archetype.
I think the emergence of extroverted sensing in both infj and intj causes ideas to "solidify" in a way that can lead to the emergence of a deeply inborn confidence, one that truly is unshakable because it's internally based. To his point, the sensing function in general seems to produce these very "binary" observations, things seem either right or wrong, and I think he's identifying that other sensors have these same observations, though to different degrees. Good talk, thanks.
I wouldn't say I'm narcissistic, more like I just have expectations of myself and expect other to feel the same way about themselves. I know people can't tell the difference, quite frankly they're too stupid to. Not to be mean or anything but it's something that wouldn't be as obvious if you were to just glance over and figure out, but that's how fast people are to judge you. I'd say most of the time when people think they're dealing with someone with a big ego/narcissist they aren't actually like that but come off as such because someone that actually holds reverence in themselves is something really rare today. So when they meet someone that's not part of the herd you definitely come off as narcissistic at least that's how people perceive me yet I am nothing like that. My physical attributes gives off that vibe I get that but if you are that fast to judge and that your too intimidated to talk to me and figure whether your right or wrong, I'd rather not know someone like that, that's a coward and I don't have time for any.
With the leading function of the INTJ being iN, it vaguely feels like I'm walking around with the key to the universe in a sense. Since I've come to 'lean on' my intuition, to be guided by it and have it the center of 'my' universe, its easy to assume that its the center of 'the' universe. The more I am right, the more I inductively think I am right.
Yes. Someday I would like to make a theory of the variations of all the types. For example, maybe there are 4 different types of INTJ's, ENFP's, ISFP's, etc. I don't know that to be true, of course, 4 is totally arbitrary, but the theory might be right. There also might be gender difference to consider too, which would increase types within types even more. I don't know the answer, of course, but there might be variations within variations that may speak to what you are saying here.
I find it unlikely that I am missing why they are confident. I understand that INTJ's talk from an authority on subject matter or an authority of process. However, there are sometimes assumptions made about those and ones own ability that leads to the arrogance. I should state that this sometimes happens with all the NT's not INTJ specifically.
Love your videos, especially the ones on INTJ. I like how you explained you view point and that each type would have their own form of narcissism. Also, I have never heard of narcissistic withdrawal, I think that is fascinating.
My partner also tries to embarrasingly draw attention to my reserved nature in social situations she draws me into, which in fact, is my being totally bored with the uninspiring chit chat, and that when I do bring up a subject for discussion, their input is either uninspiring, only receptive, dogmatic, or makes them fearful because I just shook their philosophical foundation.
In relation to why INTJs (and to a lesser extent other NTs) are often (mis)interpreted by others to be self-centered, I believe has more to do with not only how but when INTJs decide to communicate their thoughts. An INTJ gathers information from without and internalizes a logical framework in their head. Generally, we only communicate about this framework when it's highly developed. So if I speak up on a topic, it's because I've done my homework.
Have you ever wondered if you're an INTP? Not trying to back up what I said, since personality doesn't reflective what people believe, but why they believe it.
Every pie tastes differently, but there's a certain point where a pie is no longer a pie. You are the variable, and the archetype is the constant. Not the other way around. Yes, but your body language was consistent with an ENFP. I should mention that I'm not here to argue, but instead, have a discussion. I've been studying the MBTI for a little over 3 years, and like you, I love it. When I type someone, it's not letter by letter; I get a vibe from them.
Susan Cain makes a useful distinction between shyness and introversion that might be useful here. Shy people fear social interaction, but introverts gravitate to other forms of stimulation. By this definition all shy people would be introverts, but not all introverts would be shy.
I love it when you say that intj is judging it in terms of intellect. And actually not just for narcissistic, I refer to intellect element in most of the cases in which I use adjectives to describe both myself and other people. p.s: I am an intj who often loves switchng to my own narcissistic mode inside my head! It's one of the most awesome feelings ever! lol
I'm an INTJ, we believe what we believe at the most possible extent of knowledge of a particular thing/s and we are confident with that most of the time..but we don't like to be called self centered, just confident with the knowledge that we have. But to others we appeared to be narcissistic.
i have taken three test till now and always appearing as an intj. and i can identifie in his way of speaking.its just my point of view, but i find that this guy is a true intj.
The problem is NOT whether people think their point of view is right, the problem is that most other mbti's will be at least SOMEWHAT afraid to act on their belief system, because they ALLOW for the possibility that they might be WRONG. However, most of the unhealthy intj's I know, will just act on their theory of how the world works, because they are overconfident about their assessment of how the world works. This can lead to disastrous consequences. Other mbti's will allow for the possibility that their conclusion might be formed from the absence of currently unknown variables which could have a huge impact on the validity of their conclusion. This causes them to be more careful about ACTING on their conclusion. Introverts are just tired out by people, which makes them not want to spend as much energy explaining things to people. If they enjoyed being around people, they would probably have more energy to explain things to them. Cats are introverts who don't necessarily think that they right about everything, cats just don't enjoy being collective or being around people. They just enjoy spending time by themselves.
Honestly, I haven't looked deeply into the difference between INTJ and INTP. You may be right, since I've noticed that I seem to be just slightly out of step with the average INTJ.
Even when my ideas get criticized, I don't think that necessarily must trigger pride (which is the opposite of humility). All the INTJ must do is have an awareness that there is much more information out there than we possess. I think the INTJ is probably the best at processing logic. If you're really good though, you'll recognize when there are possible holes in your theory, even if it seems solid. Usually at that point we assign probabilities to these variables and "assume" we are right.
it's not about whether it's science or not. It's all about patterns. I'm using arguments based on visible patterns. Did you notice the differences between the videos I showed you and this one? I should let you know that I'm not trying to be condescending.
its possible for people to develope different bodylanguage based on what they do. the guy here takes part in debates, so that obviously he had to appear more sure of what he says. His "personage" is constructed to fit the view that others have of someone being sure of himself, wich can be usefull in debates.
I doubted myself in the past and now I reached a state of certainty. It´s true that we constantly doubt ourselves to adjust to the right things but thats not what he was talking about. Just look at his arm movements (maybe it´s sixish and I am wrong) it´s definetely Ni related.
Mike, it would be interesting to explore the religious worldview effects on an introvert. Certain religions teach selfishness should be replaced with altruism. This may have significant impact on the motivation and/or practices of the Introvert, no? Some may argue that few introverts are religious, but that only seems plausible in countries like ours, which are no longer defined by our religion.
You can't compare an ideology with an economic model. That's tantamount to explaining why a particular type of car is better than a particular type of lawnmower.
I am a male INTJ with an ESFJ partner, and she calls this phenomenon my GOD complex. I try to explain that I am not superior per se, but I do believe that being less emotionally driven and more of an independent thinker who vetts incoming information with knowledge and reason, and thinks before I speak that I have more highly developed perceptions of reality. I too have to classic sarcastic, possibly condescending sense of humor. I too prize intellectual ability in others.
A true ISTJ, perhaps. I know that a lot of times if I say, for example: "Introverted Intuition" - it might SOUND like I said "introvert intuition" - be assured that is not what I said.
I may very well be wrong, but my previous post was my opinion based on what I saw. If you notice, my post focuses on body language. Something that comes naturally and is hard to fake. Body language is the by-product or inner workings so it stays similar. INTJ's in the comments? Online tests aren't reliable. He's read up on INTJ's, so if he is speaking to a real INTJ he can just regurgitate that information. But, body language? I agree every INTJ differs, but there has to be an overall INTJness.
I thought that this was pretty interesting. I find that my narcissism conflicts with my values and believing everyone is equal and so I may be more aware of it, even if it isn't that bad. I should know better and that is what makes it worse.
One of my best friends is an INTJ and we get along great (I'm an INFP). He's very, I'd say, self-assured and confident; stubborn sometimes but he has never come off as arrogant to me and always shows a lot of respect to people. I only have good things to say about him. I don't agree with the narcissism theory, but that's alright, it got me to think about it.
Watching these 10 years later and then seeing my two comments is interesting. Have recently realised I am likely INTJ not INFP so am rewatching these episodes. INTJ makes so much more sense and really explains everything. Really appreciate the community I was part of with NFgeeks for that couple of years. Hope you're doing well Mike and Alex.
Also, I think that other personality types tend to believe that INTJs are intellectually arrogant because we value intelligence and reason much more highly than other qualities. While I think that this is sometimes correct, I also that INTJs are typically misunderstood by other personality types when they take what an INTJ says too personally.
I found this video quite frustrating to watch and I'm trying to figure out why. So Alex's version of narcissism is the belief that his worldview is correct, and when he comes to a conclusion about something, he is right. Is that what he's saying? Well.. what are these things that apparently can only have right or wrong answers? Is this multiple-choice-world where there is only one correct answer? How can anyones worldview be correct? Does Alex think he is the smartest person in the world?
Narcissism is generally spoken of in relation to NPD, which is listed as a medical condition in DSM-IV. So speaking of it in this way is rather misleading. To the extent that we wish to talk about self-centered characteristics (which are present in everyone to varying degrees and certainly don't seem to be specific to any personality type(s) ), I think Mike's suggestion to instead use Egoism is appropriate.
To be honest, I find this video very interesting as an INTJ and believe I can see myself reflecting off of Alex. I'm actually a 6ft4 15 year old male who's dream is to become C.E.O of a fortune 500 company someday. Being under privileged, I'm always told my dream is farfetched. Regardless, I know I'll achieve that someday... I can clearly see the steps to making it. Oh and sorry, this is my mothers profile btw...
Narcissism is inside all of us, and that is really okay. Some hide it better than others. If you are willing to compromise your "importance" to make someone else feel more important, then you love that person, or you have a weak self-esteem (afraid to make yourself count).
The way Alex described narcissism sounded more like being validated by your individual understanding of the universe. Everyone believes, to an extent, that they are right, and that their understanding of the universe is the most correct. It's not necessarily egoist, because its aim is not moral. I would characterize it instead as being self-aware. For me, I see the universe as being rational, so my evaluation of myself and others is dependent on that rational foundation.
This creates a false impression that INTJs are overconfident about anything, when the reality is that we're only reasonably confident. On issues we're uninformed, we will stay silent and either enter our head to work on frameworks we are interested in -- or gather information for developing a framework on this new area of expertise. So people only hear us when we're confident - but this confidence is entirely warranted. And we're quite happy to vet our understanding with others we take seriously
Fellow ENFP here... Yes, we like being in the spotlight. We like attention, feeling important, being worshiped and adored, and having admiring fans hanging on our every word. Is it a god complex? Is it megalomania? Or is it just a desire to feel important and nothing truly delusional?
There are variations of INTJs. The reason why I don't waste time talking to certain people is not because of self-absorption necessarily because of all the interactions that were painful. I don't think of that as self-absorption but self-preservation. I will talk to someone until... they destroy me ^^; Also, I believe in the correctness of my own perception of the universe... for me. My perception is right for me. That's pretty much it. I have a narcissistic parent... I know the difference.
Well said. I don't think an INTJ is narcissistic necessarily. Narcissism is an excessive love of self, and a sense of superiority. An immature INTJ might believe this, but eventually, one ought to understand that each person has different gifts that makes them valuable. If we judge another person's value purely based on the trait we ourselves happen to be the strongest in (intellect in our case), that's extraordinarily short-sighted. It IS possible for an INTJ to be humble.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The irony of a narcissistic INTJ pronouncing it "narcism/narcistic" XD
It's a variation on the term. Narcist is what is considered a 'healthy' variation of narcissism, whereas Narcissist would be the disorder (NPD).
KimPossible The irony of a blonde women attempting to correct an INTJ male ;) Bam how's that a generalisation for ya gorgeous? I win RUclips hands down
Shane Rene Because I'm blonde, that's supposed to be ironic? The fact that I am also an INTJ must be irrelevant then. In every etymology source I have seen, there is no discrepancy between narcissism and narcism because "narcism" is simply is one of those instances of a word so commonly misspelled that it has become accepted in some circles; much like "sherbet" is commonly mispronounced as "sherbert," or "espresso" is mispronounced as "expresso."
KimPossible First of all, you considered this particular INTJ to be narcissistic. I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion, but regardless, he is a valued member at NFGEEKS and as far as his non-existent psychological evaluation conducted by you and your team of medical experts is concerned, is in fact not narcissistic. To answer your question directly, I will ask you a question: So it's supposed to be ironic when a, by your standards, INTJ makes a mistake about the personality disorder he does not have? Or is it when an INTJ makes a mistake in general? Regardless, there is without a doubt irony in a "blonde attempting to correct an INTJ" because of the blonde stereotype vs. INTJ stereotype, two contrasting groups in terms of intelligence. As is the consensus... I'm just letting you know, that making generalisations might seem harmless but it most certainly is not, and on that note, making accusations is worse. Peace lovely :)
Shane Rene I think there is some fundamental misunderstanding in the way you interpreted my comments, because I didn't say or imply 90% of what you said. Besides, the guy in the video admits to narcissistic tendencies in INTJs. My initial comment was said in observational jest. I'm not attacking him or anyone else, regardless of how you perceived it.
I'm an INTJ and I absolutely despise egotism. Anytime I get any type of egotistical attitude from anyone, I instantly dislike them.
This is true for anyone else. I will admit I have a large Ego, but I hate others who are narcissistic. This is the same for most people. We are a group that practically defines narcissism.
Two sentences containing four "I" statements which are entirely about you and your thoughts about how egotism in others effects you.
Ouch! Goddam the irony..it hurts....
***** " If it was Ironic, he would have said egocentric/ism instead of egotistic/al."
Oh, you mean like in the first sentence whee they wrote, "I absolutely despise egotism."?
"One could not convey information about their likes/dislikes in the first person without using "I"."
Your point here is silly, disliked, and dis-proven by this very sentence.
"What is ironic is that your comment was egotistical!
Nice self-pwn!"
This part was quoted so as to give you a chance to rethink your motivations here. It's like irony inception. Haha
booksRbad Just get off your high horse thinking you're some kind of badass or something. Reality check: this is RUclips. Lol no one cares half as much as you seem to.
*****
0 fucks given.
As an INTJ, I used to believe like Alex says, in that we "believe" we are right, because we assume the available data allows us to draw a correct conclusion. However, I've learned to understand (and even assume) that I often don't have all the data, and thus, can be incorrect on many things, purely for this reason. A theory is not "true until its proven wrong". Truth is not subject to our access to all the data. Truth is what it is, whether we believe it or not. A mature INTJ would admit this.
As an Intj, I have a desire to "Always be the smartest in the room" but not for status but to see my intellectual limits set up plans and goals to either surpass it or to use it more efficiently.
My God, INTJ's are like spiders; they have no problem whatsoever devouring their own kind. :-D
All part of acquiring knowledge.
I'm not narcissistic. I have a higher degree of confidence because my perception is less clouded by emotion.
FloridaRaider But a high degree of confidence when you ARE actually wrong makes you look like a douche.
TrantaLocked nope, I just admit I'm wrong, I've learned something, and move forward.
FloridaRaider Yeah, but that's AFTER the fact. You still had that superior confidence behind your position before you were proven wrong.
Have you considered that maybe you're just overly sensitive rather than INTJs being very confident? I mean, have you been on the internet? Everyone is confident that they're right. Being right more often than everyone else and obsessively checking yourself would make anyone more confident.
@Rachel Lapelosa for INTJs our emotions essentially take a back seat to our intuition. We still value emotions, they're just not the top priority. For example: A car dealer hurts my feelings, but the deal he's willing to give me is better than the one I got from the friendlier dealer. Despite my negative emotions, I'll take the better deal.
I disagree that everyone thinks that they are 'right.'
I am an INTJ. I had asked a friend of mine if I was narcissistic and he said yes. I also know another young INTJ, a computer guy, who talks just like Alex. I think Alex is giving a very honest opinion on one aspect of INTJ's characteristics.
thank you you have been the most insightful and the least emotional for admitting this.
It isn't so much "we believe we are smarter than everyone else", but instead "why can't you be as smart as me?". This creates a different meaning and source of it than the ego.
Well said. I struggle with this ever wondering why people don't prioritize intelligence the way I do. It's a difference of self fulfillment, coming to terms with that isn't the same as treating a personality disorder. 🤣
I'm an INTJ and, after watching may interviews with INTJs, I've come to the conclusion that INTJs are really arrogant. Even though I obviously am one, it's really, really obvious. And irritating.
I dont get irritated by watching other INTJs
Yes. They are. And at high risk of NPD. I still like them though, cause i am drawn to people who can hold intelligent conversation. But man, this huge ego thing...what a turn off
My wife and best friend are both INTJ. 99% of the time it's no problem. However, there are some days where it's the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced. I tried explaining to my wife once what I meant about her coming across 'arrogant' and ofc it made it worse. She wanted every term defined and presented a counter argument to everything I said. She's very sweet and so it upset her to upset me but the mix of emotion + heavy reliance on logic was maddening for me. We've figured it out though and she's my favorite person in the world. My guy friend is a straight up son of a bitch, though. Haha jk. He's wicked smart and very practical. I think our fights have taught him to chill out a bit and not come across like a utilitarian android to people. He is impressed by my random knowledge and ability to think outside of the box. Overall, INTJ is my favorite sign. Very interesting, reliable, and loveable people. You just have to show that you sincerely value their LEGO block thought processing and sometimes challenge them to question why they've arrived at a certain conclusion.
-INTP
I'm wondering if a type would be inclined towards the opposite of natural narcissism - I'm an 0INFP, and I feel like I'm more verbally apologetic and modest than most of my peers. Perhaps Fi-doms, being especially wary of conflict, are more likely to speak lightly of their own talents or achievements.
Well, I'm not THAT narcissistic. But I do have a feeling that I know what I know pretty damn well. And if someone wants to convince me I'm wrong, then they'd better be able to demonstrate it.But about most things, I'm clueless until I've done my research, and I have no problem admitting that.
I know this is an old thread, but Mike won this one! I love the interaction between you and Alex. Mike knew exactly what he was doing the entire time... this is how to stump an Intj with precision. Alex clearly has to think this over....he will emerge with a superior argument, however this is the illustrates the complex beauty of an enfp/Intj "relationship". Bravo!!!
Thinking the universe revolves around you is not bad. If you think about it each and everyone of us is the center of our own universe.
Wow. For years my narc has bragged about his INTJ personality and how wonderful it is. Altruistic and open minded.
ditto
I think INTJ's are at the highest risk of being NPD. And anti social tendencies. I appreciate them, but then again how can you trust someone at risk of treating you like a toy
I may not be right on everything. With that said the areas where I spend my energy I am right almost every time. If I am not right in my perspective I have no issues finding the issues before I get to that point where I will be wrong. Confidence is often confused with narcissism. I am very confident in my actions. That is often confused by people I encounter.
I am an INTJ and I didn't notice I had any narcissism till someone pointed it out in college and then after mulling it over realized that I did have narcissistic qualities. So I didn't fight about it because I could see it as true. I just never made the connection before XD
I would have to disagree with a fair amount of this. Confidence in a usually deeply thought out and researched position on a topic does not constitute narcissism, though many, especially Feelers might perceive it as such. We are not attached to our own ideas if a demonstrably better, more informed, or more importantly, MORE EFFECTIVE one is presented. However, it has to be demonstrable. Accreditation, reputation, or aggrandizement mean less than nothing.
Having dealt with NPD abuse personally, I can confidently say that while INTJs can often be arrogant, especially as a defence mechanism, we are just not wired for what real narcissism is. We can not only look in the mirror and accept our errors, we need to do this in order to learn and grow.
In one sentence, I can show you what no narcissist can truly do, but what every INTJ has to do and usually does say, in one way or another: "I fucked up, I admit it, and own it. I will do my best to learn from it, but sooner or later, I will fuck up again, and when I do, I will admit it, own it, and do my best to learn from it then, too." INTJs are hardwired to do that and narcissists are hardwired to never be able to do that. Hope this helps bring a bit more clarity.
Great comment, mate. I am an INTJ female. The best way I have been able to explain it is.. INTJs from birth are emotionally grown up. Narcissists can never grow past a child.
We are a misunderstood bunch, INTJs 😄 I have crushing empathy.. but since I have always been an introvert, I have dealt with it alone and found my own solutions.. so I try to do the same for others.. make a pathway forward so they aren't hurting.
I understand why that's seen as cold by some types. But it comes from a place of very deep affection when we take the time to actively listen and help. I think INTJs would be better placed next to a high functioning Aspie than a Narcissist. Although we are neither.
@@jhopsi While it is probable that many or even most of us are deeper in the spectrum than a neurotypical, we do not tend to lie in the same fork as Aspies. Our characteristics have some commonalities, but plenty of differences as well. I agree with your assertion.
Infj's can be very much like thinking types. By there nature they hold many different balances.
Based on the definition of a narcissist, I have to disagree that INTJ's are narcissistic... I think the correct term is that we are self-actualized...
Definition of self-actualization: The motivation to realize one's own maximum potential and possibilities. It is considered to be the master motive or the only real motive, all other motives being its various forms. It has nothing to do with self adoration...
As an INTJ, I always leave the door open for new "facts"... until then, I mean what I say and I say what I mean...
Having a conversation with a person that is open minded is far easier than an ignorant person that doesn't want to consider a thought in the perceived notion that everyone is dumb and there I nothing to learn from them. Knowledge has and always will be power just hear a perspective and grow from It.
I actually realized some flaws in my personality and started studying narcissism, along with sociopathy, before getting into Meyers-Briggs types and discovering I was an INTJ. I've always wondered if acts of selflessness are really just learned behaviors that make people feel important or significant, so they continue to do these acts out of an unknowingly selfish desire.
Shannon Austin No one would do anything for others if there wasn't some deep selfish desire. For ISFJs, that "selfish" desire when they make sacrifices is knowing that other people are happy. They feel that happiness inside themselves when others are happy, and a lot of the time that's all they need to get by. On the other hand, ENTJs don't really care as much about other people's feeling or well being. They will get everything that makes them happy the most efficient way possible, while trying to keep a group of friends to support them.
Haha, this guy's position is... SHAKY. (understatement, ...fading toward complete dismissal...)
Narcissism is an exaggerated preoccupation with the self which treats others as extensions of self-aggrandizing ego. It is usually a result of compensation for some deep wound in the psyche.
Introversion may be rooted in defensive postures which lead to behaviors that are parallel to narcissism, but needn't be equivocated with them, any more than someone who rambles is necessarily schizophrenic.
Now, if it turns out that anyone who IS an introvert finds sound ethical and pragmatic reasons for refusing to dole out his or her energy to others' supposedly socially acceptable manner of demanding attention not due, then that might look narcissistic. So be it. In some cases it really complements a narcissistic condition. But it can happen simply because it is the best decision the introvert can make given all the facts that he finds exist, and based on the way that they matter to him. Label him what you want, but he's probably too busy to give a damn about your confusion.
Extroverts are about getting along, and will often go along as much as they have to in order to do that. They aren't internally busy beyond the limits of this preference. "Introverts" are not willing, perhaps not able, to follow that take. Perhaps first they weren't able, then developed on paths that also made them unwilling. But sometimes they just aren't willing to humor the mob.
The Gnostic Truth That's wisdom from an observant and intellectually developed individual. About the last paragraph: Yes, when we're young, we are unable and find difficulty in it. However, when we mature, we discover we can if we want... but we really don't want to. It's not worth it.
MrHardCash It is one of life's many under-appreciated ironies. It is the world's way of "hitting on" those it most covets to submit to its agenda. When someone really wants a certain horse, they work on breaking its spirit more. It's stupid and evil, but it is the only way to "take possession" of what is coveted, so that the Spirit within will serve through the flesh bag.
But the Spirit is UNWILLING, though the flesh may be eager and even able. But if the Spirit is STRONG, then the body, no matter how willing or able, will NOT submit, and will sabotage the evil process of indoctrination into the world. It is one of the harsh realities of the world, and it is the necessary precursor to the Initiation of the Spirit.
Most do not even have a True Spirit to break, and many among those who do simply disengage and do not function in the world at all, in ANY way. The rest are on a gradation of functionality which approaches an acme in forms which only myths can make tangible.
+The Gnostic Truth where can I learn more about the things you speak of?
So you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Second paragraph. ;-)
Yeah, I wish he'd define what he means by 'narcissism', because he's clearly not using the proper scientific definition of it. For example he says he's 'narcissistic', but nobody with even some narc tendencies would ever admit to this
I think the word is conceited- an excessively favorable opinion of one's own ability, importance, wit, etc.
As for the whole "narcissism" ordeal, I have to agree with you Mike. I definitely don't think narcissism is the right word. I think the right word is actually "cynicism" since IN (Introverted/Intuitive)s constantly feel betrayed and are often disappointed by others, and as a result, they think more highly of themselves.
I am interested in the concept of "conspiracy therories" as it relates to Narcissism and Myers Briggs assesement. Since you are a Psch and Philosophy teacher I am interested in your viewpoints particularily how it works with NF/NT particularily since these types particularily view thier own judgements over all others. Or is this something you have possibly covered in another video, or if you think this is a discussion that has worth within your forum.
Egoism is the ethical consequentialist theory that an action is good if the outcome is good for the self. Narcissism is the dysfunction or pathology of being unhealthily self absorbed in such a way that that all things are in relation to the self either as objects of use or of experience and having no real understanding of empathy. The two are not necessarily synonyms but do interconnect with each other. Where one is the other can be found.
as an INTJ i do agree i'm a bit narcissistic in the way Alex explained too.
INTJ female here.
First off, I believe that INTJ's are empaths. We see everything, we feel deeply, and based on patterns, we can be pretty accurate when it comes to prediction.
BUT, since we are so susceptible to becoming overwhelmed in uncontrolled environment (ie: loud noises, bright lights, frequent high energy of any kind including the energy people give off), in order to protect ourselves from over analyzing everything and breaking our brains, we have to isolate ourselves to shuffle through the noise to think clearly.
We have empathy, but our tolerance for irrational stimuli is just low.
This isolation inevitably allows us to pick apart things we've been exposed to, and think deeply about them for hours without distraction, which ultimately makes us "experts" in whatever we've been exposed to.
So when people come into our protective bubble and state their opinions, we most likely have a thought out opinion and explanation that could and probably will counteract your opinion.
When this happens, these thought out opinions of ours, and how we deliver them, make us seem cold, narcissistic, or egotistical. But in reality, we've just isolated ourselves for so long, researched things thoroughly due to our need for mental stimulation, and have just logically thought things through.
For the most part, I'm right a lot of the time due to this behavior. BUT I can be wrong too and make mistakes. When someone thinks I'm wrong, in order to fully convince me that I am wrong, using knowledge that trumps my own will get me to bow down and say, "Yeah, you're right."
And to be honest I LOVE when that happens. It forces me to think (which I love), it challenges my own views (which debates are always welcomed) and chances are I will respect you a lot more because you have logically and calmly outsmarted me.
Interesting, but can you elaborate on the empath part, I'm not seeing it
You might be an INFJ. INTJs don't do empathy very well, we can be very sympathetic.
About a year ago I began skimming through all of my mothers college textbooks absorbing as much as I could retain. Along the way I came across the Meyer-briggs system and was immediately hooked onto a new topic. After plenty of research I came to a conclusion, I'm an INTJ. Later on I was asked to take an IQ test in school and received 134 surprising my instructor and my mother. Intellect has always ran in my family, just not the best of luck with my mom... Shes been through a lot, and so have I.
What should I by checking for?
Was the word you were looking for self-centred? That's the first thing that came to mind when you said that. Although its connotations are rather negative...
@ 8:10 - STOP! Stop! You're letting out our primary secret! looool - It's a thing I've always struggled with and wanted to overcome, as I see it as a negative trait. Secretly thinking I'm far more intelligent than most. But the people around me aren't doing a great job convincing me otherwise.
Thank you for all your videos incidently........I am an INTJ and I know few Rationals but many NF's, introverted NF's anyway, and your forums are both fun, serious and informative. You certainly have access to many genuinely honest and thoughtful "interviewee's" accross the MyersBriggs spectrum, and I appreciate these videos very much.
I don't know if its a youtube technical issue, or an issue with this video, but the video seems to lag behind (running at a slower speed) than the audio.
+zombiedude347 After watching more of the video, it appears that the video and audio are simply out of sync and the video is actually ahead of the audio. The reason that the video appears sluggish compared to the audio may be purely psychological.
+zombiedude347 Actually, after an additional observation, it appears again that the audio is ahead of the video (by .1-.5 seconds).
As an INFJ, I find we have a very similar sort of arrogance to the INTJ. It really does come from having such certainty about one particular researched subject (in the case of the INTJ), or characeristic/motive/overall sense we get from a person (in the INFJs case) by "just knowing". -
....and after continuing to watch the video, yes, INFP-INFJ self-absorbed behavior is definitely present, but I think it's harder to express to others unless something was taken as a personal attack. I don't think that mindset is as out in the open as it is for NTs.
Mike. I'm really conflicted on two points. I'm an INFJ. I am really empathetic, and extroverted in my feeling sense with people, however, a family member betrayed me more than once. Now I cannot find a shred of emotion, empathy or anything for her. it conflicts with my nature, but I thought it was an INFJ thing to, umm..not do that.
Secondly, I also use similar reasoning to Alex, in that, at times I judge people's intellectual worthiness. What is happening? is this normal for INFJ's?
What would you call it when I test mostly intj but I also have the ability to be somewhat extroverted and entertaining?
My personality is for sure intj, but when I volunteer or give a presentation, I act like a different person. It's still me, I have control over my actions, but it's almost as if I'm on some sort of drug. The thoughts and actions I normally see as a waste of time or too much work, are let through. Like if my filter is gone, and I have all the energy in the world.
extroverted and introverted people use two different neurotransmitters (dopamine or acetylcholine) as their primary brain neurotransmitters. Every once it a while, your brain decides to switch, and when this happens you go from acting introverted to extroverted, or vice versa, temporarily.
12:30, self aggrandizing??
Another factor which lends to a perception of self-centered INTJs is our reaction to how other personality types treat our ideas. Often times I'll do significant work on developing a framework before the first meeting of a group project. I didn't even realize I would do this for years, and it happens naturally. Nor am I even sure how to describe the process, but it happens and I don't feel comfortable entering a group setting unless I've done this.
Oh Mike....as an ENFP, as soon as you starting expounding on "Dig me!" syndrome, I automatically laughed and exclaimed "guilty!" xD
I really don't get all these INTJs I see lauding these stereotypes of themselves as though it's true. It sounds like they wish they were Dr. Evil from Austin Powers or something when really they are just normal, caring people like everyone else.
Self righteous and condescending. I've been called that and could see why. I do look down on illogical arguments. Self righteous? Nah. I just make sure my actions align with what I know is right and am critical of anyone who doesn't.
I like Nietzche a lot...very empowering.
However...
Sometimes I get the sense that it is the Dark Side of The Force...
do you know how those other intj's have been tested? unless it's by someone who knows what they are doing, it's likely they've been mistyped.
it is also very easy to identify with another intj when you've read an article or two on the personality type.
there are variations, but there's a certain point at which it just doesn't fit the archetype.
I think the emergence of extroverted sensing in both infj and intj causes ideas to "solidify" in a way that can lead to the emergence of a deeply inborn confidence, one that truly is unshakable because it's internally based. To his point, the sensing function in general seems to produce these very "binary" observations, things seem either right or wrong, and I think he's identifying that other sensors have these same observations, though to different degrees. Good talk, thanks.
I wouldn't say I'm narcissistic, more like I just have expectations of myself and expect other to feel the same way about themselves. I know people can't tell the difference, quite frankly they're too stupid to. Not to be mean or anything but it's something that wouldn't be as obvious if you were to just glance over and figure out, but that's how fast people are to judge you. I'd say most of the time when people think they're dealing with someone with a big ego/narcissist they aren't actually like that but come off as such because someone that actually holds reverence in themselves is something really rare today. So when they meet someone that's not part of the herd you definitely come off as narcissistic at least that's how people perceive me yet I am nothing like that. My physical attributes gives off that vibe I get that but if you are that fast to judge and that your too intimidated to talk to me and figure whether your right or wrong, I'd rather not know someone like that, that's a coward and I don't have time for any.
With the leading function of the INTJ being iN, it vaguely feels like I'm walking around with the key to the universe in a sense. Since I've come to 'lean on' my intuition, to be guided by it and have it the center of 'my' universe, its easy to assume that its the center of 'the' universe. The more I am right, the more I inductively think I am right.
Is Alex in a debate team? He talks like it :D
Yes. Someday I would like to make a theory of the variations of all the types. For example, maybe there are 4 different types of INTJ's, ENFP's, ISFP's, etc. I don't know that to be true, of course, 4 is totally arbitrary, but the theory might be right. There also might be gender difference to consider too, which would increase types within types even more. I don't know the answer, of course, but there might be variations within variations that may speak to what you are saying here.
Am I being impatient or would you kindly make a organised and pointwise presentation?
I find it unlikely that I am missing why they are confident. I understand that INTJ's talk from an authority on subject matter or an authority of process. However, there are sometimes assumptions made about those and ones own ability that leads to the arrogance. I should state that this sometimes happens with all the NT's not INTJ specifically.
conciseness is Ti not Te
I'll need to keep this in mind.
Love your videos, especially the ones on INTJ. I like how you explained you view point and that each type would have their own form of narcissism. Also, I have never heard of narcissistic withdrawal, I think that is fascinating.
My partner also tries to embarrasingly draw attention to my reserved nature in social situations she draws me into, which in fact, is my being totally bored with the uninspiring chit chat, and that when I do bring up a subject for discussion, their input is either uninspiring, only receptive, dogmatic, or makes them fearful because I just shook their philosophical foundation.
I really enjoy watching your videos. I like seeing other Intj's opinions. INFJ cross refrence is cool too
In relation to why INTJs (and to a lesser extent other NTs) are often (mis)interpreted by others to be self-centered, I believe has more to do with not only how but when INTJs decide to communicate their thoughts.
An INTJ gathers information from without and internalizes a logical framework in their head. Generally, we only communicate about this framework when it's highly developed.
So if I speak up on a topic, it's because I've done my homework.
Have you ever wondered if you're an INTP? Not trying to back up what I said, since personality doesn't reflective what people believe, but why they believe it.
Every pie tastes differently, but there's a certain point where a pie is no longer a pie.
You are the variable, and the archetype is the constant. Not the other way around.
Yes, but your body language was consistent with an ENFP.
I should mention that I'm not here to argue, but instead, have a discussion. I've been studying the MBTI for a little over 3 years, and like you, I love it. When I type someone, it's not letter by letter; I get a vibe from them.
Susan Cain makes a useful distinction between shyness and introversion that might be useful here. Shy people fear social interaction, but introverts gravitate to other forms of stimulation. By this definition all shy people would be introverts, but not all introverts would be shy.
I have a similar response to ENFP's. They come across to me as scattered and flighty and it makes me hate them and hate myself. :-D
I love it when you say that intj is judging it in terms of intellect. And actually not just for narcissistic, I refer to intellect element in most of the cases in which I use adjectives to describe both myself and other people.
p.s: I am an intj who often loves switchng to my own narcissistic mode inside my head! It's one of the most awesome feelings ever! lol
I'm an INTJ, we believe what we believe at the most possible extent of knowledge of a particular thing/s and we are confident with that most of the time..but we don't like to be called self centered, just confident with the knowledge that we have. But to others we appeared to be narcissistic.
i have taken three test till now and always appearing as an intj. and i can identifie in his way of speaking.its just my point of view, but i find that this guy is a true intj.
The problem is NOT whether people think their point of view is right, the problem is that most other mbti's will be at least SOMEWHAT afraid to act on their belief system, because they ALLOW for the possibility that they might be WRONG. However, most of the unhealthy intj's I know, will just act on their theory of how the world works, because they are overconfident about their assessment of how the world works. This can lead to disastrous consequences. Other mbti's will allow for the possibility that their conclusion might be formed from the absence of currently unknown variables which could have a huge impact on the validity of their conclusion. This causes them to be more careful about ACTING on their conclusion.
Introverts are just tired out by people, which makes them not want to spend as much energy explaining things to people. If they enjoyed being around people, they would probably have more energy to explain things to them. Cats are introverts who don't necessarily think that they right about everything, cats just don't enjoy being collective or being around people. They just enjoy spending time by themselves.
Honestly, I haven't looked deeply into the difference between INTJ and INTP. You may be right, since I've noticed that I seem to be just slightly out of step with the average INTJ.
Even when my ideas get criticized, I don't think that necessarily must trigger pride (which is the opposite of humility). All the INTJ must do is have an awareness that there is much more information out there than we possess. I think the INTJ is probably the best at processing logic. If you're really good though, you'll recognize when there are possible holes in your theory, even if it seems solid. Usually at that point we assign probabilities to these variables and "assume" we are right.
I admit though that I do talk about ENFP excessively, as the MBTI as well, but that is because I am in love with it and my type. I do. I admit it.
it's not about whether it's science or not. It's all about patterns. I'm using arguments based on visible patterns. Did you notice the differences between the videos I showed you and this one?
I should let you know that I'm not trying to be condescending.
He is already, isn't he?
its possible for people to develope different bodylanguage based on what they do. the guy here takes part in debates, so that obviously he had to appear more sure of what he says. His "personage" is constructed to fit the view that others have of someone being sure of himself, wich can be usefull in debates.
Well I dig you Mike, your'e so fun to listen to.
I doubted myself in the past and now I reached a state of certainty. It´s true that we constantly doubt ourselves to adjust to the right things but thats not what he was talking about. Just look at his arm movements (maybe it´s sixish and I am wrong) it´s definetely Ni related.
Do you (the INTJ) know your Enneagram-type?
An answer would be very appreciated.
Mike, it would be interesting to explore the religious worldview effects on an introvert. Certain religions teach selfishness should be replaced with altruism. This may have significant impact on the motivation and/or practices of the Introvert, no? Some may argue that few introverts are religious, but that only seems plausible in countries like ours, which are no longer defined by our religion.
Because I can relate to most of what you are saying. I am an INTJ or INFJ myself and consider myself to be a "SX 5" in the Enneagram.
Yeah that wouldn't be to bad. He certainly understands my mentality better then most.
You can't compare an ideology with an economic model. That's tantamount to explaining why a particular type of car is better than a particular type of lawnmower.
I know one INTJ that seems very similar to Alex. Others I know and met are considerably less arrogant (relatively speaking).
I am a male INTJ with an ESFJ partner, and she calls this phenomenon my GOD complex. I try to explain that I am not superior per se, but I do believe that being less emotionally driven and more of an independent thinker who vetts incoming information with knowledge and reason, and thinks before I speak that I have more highly developed perceptions of reality. I too have to classic sarcastic, possibly condescending sense of humor. I too prize intellectual ability in others.
A true ISTJ, perhaps. I know that a lot of times if I say, for example: "Introverted Intuition" - it might SOUND like I said "introvert intuition" - be assured that is not what I said.
I may very well be wrong, but my previous post was my opinion based on what I saw.
If you notice, my post focuses on body language. Something that comes naturally and is hard to fake. Body language is the by-product or inner workings so it stays similar.
INTJ's in the comments? Online tests aren't reliable.
He's read up on INTJ's, so if he is speaking to a real INTJ he can just regurgitate that information.
But, body language? I agree every INTJ differs, but there has to be an overall INTJness.
The low lighting may be relaxing while in it, but for a video not so much.
I thought that this was pretty interesting. I find that my narcissism conflicts with my values and believing everyone is equal and so I may be more aware of it, even if it isn't that bad. I should know better and that is what makes it worse.
One of my best friends is an INTJ and we get along great (I'm an INFP). He's very, I'd say, self-assured and confident; stubborn sometimes but he has never come off as arrogant to me and always shows a lot of respect to people. I only have good things to say about him. I don't agree with the narcissism theory, but that's alright, it got me to think about it.
Watching these 10 years later and then seeing my two comments is interesting. Have recently realised I am likely INTJ not INFP so am rewatching these episodes. INTJ makes so much more sense and really explains everything.
Really appreciate the community I was part of with NFgeeks for that couple of years. Hope you're doing well Mike and Alex.
As a lefty, a female intj, type o-, as well as I forgot wht else. I feel superior and I can not help it....lol
Okay. I'm down with that.
Also, I think that other personality types tend to believe that INTJs are intellectually arrogant because we value intelligence and reason much more highly than other qualities. While I think that this is sometimes correct, I also that INTJs are typically misunderstood by other personality types when they take what an INTJ says too personally.
I found this video quite frustrating to watch and I'm trying to figure out why. So Alex's version of narcissism is the belief that his worldview is correct, and when he comes to a conclusion about something, he is right. Is that what he's saying? Well.. what are these things that apparently can only have right or wrong answers? Is this multiple-choice-world where there is only one correct answer? How can anyones worldview be correct? Does Alex think he is the smartest person in the world?
Narcissism is generally spoken of in relation to NPD, which is listed as a medical condition in DSM-IV.
So speaking of it in this way is rather misleading. To the extent that we wish to talk about self-centered characteristics (which are present in everyone to varying degrees and certainly don't seem to be specific to any personality type(s) ), I think Mike's suggestion to instead use Egoism is appropriate.
To be honest, I find this video very interesting as an INTJ and believe I can see myself reflecting off of Alex. I'm actually a 6ft4 15 year old male who's dream is to become C.E.O of a fortune 500 company someday. Being under privileged, I'm always told my dream is farfetched. Regardless, I know I'll achieve that someday... I can clearly see the steps to making it. Oh and sorry, this is my mothers profile btw...
Narcissism is inside all of us, and that is really okay. Some hide it better than others. If you are willing to compromise your "importance" to make someone else feel more important, then you love that person, or you have a weak self-esteem (afraid to make yourself count).
I can't lie, I do feel a bit smarter listening to him talk and reasoning with him in my own mind
The way Alex described narcissism sounded more like being validated by your individual understanding of the universe. Everyone believes, to an extent, that they are right, and that their understanding of the universe is the most correct. It's not necessarily egoist, because its aim is not moral. I would characterize it instead as being self-aware. For me, I see the universe as being rational, so my evaluation of myself and others is dependent on that rational foundation.
This creates a false impression that INTJs are overconfident about anything, when the reality is that we're only reasonably confident. On issues we're uninformed, we will stay silent and either enter our head to work on frameworks we are interested in -- or gather information for developing a framework on this new area of expertise.
So people only hear us when we're confident - but this confidence is entirely warranted. And we're quite happy to vet our understanding with others we take seriously
Fellow ENFP here...
Yes, we like being in the spotlight. We like attention, feeling important, being worshiped and adored, and having admiring fans hanging on our every word. Is it a god complex? Is it megalomania? Or is it just a desire to feel important and nothing truly delusional?
was just about to suggest that "narcissistic tendencies" relate to all NT's.... and then Alex mentioned the same thing.
Good observation.
There are variations of INTJs. The reason why I don't waste time talking to certain people is not because of self-absorption necessarily because of all the interactions that were painful. I don't think of that as self-absorption but self-preservation. I will talk to someone until... they destroy me ^^;
Also, I believe in the correctness of my own perception of the universe... for me. My perception is right for me. That's pretty much it. I have a narcissistic parent... I know the difference.
Well said. I don't think an INTJ is narcissistic necessarily. Narcissism is an excessive love of self, and a sense of superiority. An immature INTJ might believe this, but eventually, one ought to understand that each person has different gifts that makes them valuable. If we judge another person's value purely based on the trait we ourselves happen to be the strongest in (intellect in our case), that's extraordinarily short-sighted. It IS possible for an INTJ to be humble.