Why You're Wrong About Marvel's Phase 4
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
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The MCU. Phase 4. A mess? I don't think so. Many people feel otherwise, apparently. I'm going to try and change their minds! To be clear, this video isn't especially interested in the quality of Phase 4's instalments - even though, for the most part, I enjoyed these projects. I'm not arguing they're all masterpieces. Rather, I'm arguing that the Phase has a focus, has a direction, isn't merely the vomiting forth of random properties that many seem to think it is. Another point to clarify - this isn't a response to any specific video, tweet, post, reaction, etc... It's more my reaction to the general trends of pushback against Phase 4 I've seen over the past months.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:01 Phase 4 and narrative buildup
7:51 Worldbuilding and the multiverse
9:36 (Meta)worldbuilding?
10:54 New cultures and perspectives
12:59 Genre, form, and style
16:36 Summing up
Phase Four of the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a group of American superhero films and television series produced by Marvel Studios based on characters that appear in publications by Marvel Comics. Phase Four features all of the Marvel Studios productions set to be released from 2021 through 2022. It includes WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, Black Widow, What If, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Hawkeye, Spider-Man: No Way Home, Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Thor: Love and Thunder, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Werewolf by Night, Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, and the GOTG Holiday Special. Phase 4 has introduced various new branches to the MCU, including Disney+ shows, Marvel Special Presentations, and animated projects. 
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![How Marvel DESTROYED the MCU [Phase 4 Failures]](/img/1.gif)
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You are right, the story of the elves was so inspirational.
Hey, gotta point out that Black Panther was doing both African American and West African. Great video, though.
Congratulations on getting paid! I cannot wait to see the videos this will fun.
You went to the Dark Side, PoG. Sorry, I'm out. Shill for RAID and you lose me. Promoting corporate parasitism of vulnerable people with addiction problems is pretty scuzzy.
I kinda find it ironic since Ghost corps is the ciemiac universe that is wandering around. It was Ivan Riteman idea not Sony and you can tell why Sony would do Spiderman instead. If you compare it to something like Marvel or DC what ideas could you pull out of a ghostbusters world? Yea you have different teams of busting ghosts. and that's it. Because unlike something like the MCU which has a vast history of characters that can do many different genres. From Horror to mysters to slice of life etc. Ghost corps will end up like the tremors series. I think pokemon has more interesting stories to tell than Ghost Corps.
As much as I don’t enjoy Phase 4, I feel that it gets overhated for the wrong reasons. My gripes with phase 4 is Disney not giving as much creative control to their directors and their treatment of special Fx teams who are overworked. If anything, the diversity of new perspectives is actually well appreciated.
THIS
Even though I disagree with a lot of the gripes of Phase 4 there is one critism that I think is well granted, and of course its something that is in control of Disney cooperate, and that is marvel burn out. There were 6 movies in phase one in the span of 4 years. That's one or two movies per year. Phase 4 is 7 movies in 1 and a half years. Plus spin offs, tv shows, animation ect. It's just a lot to keep up with and marvel movies tend to be almost always above average but never really excellent. So we are getting more marvel then other with similar to improved quality but its spaced out much less. And because its so condensed the movies suffer even more from sameness lack of coordination ect.
This actually mirrors the current anime industry a lot, where a lot of anime are being made but still very few masterpieces. And the push for content not only makes things worse because it treats art as a product and not as a story, but it also cannibalized itself. Its media as product and not as art. And I don't get me wrong this was always the case, its just a lot more obvious with 4 then it has been.
Disney not giving as much creative control to their directors is a really odd criticism because it appears Marvel directors have never had more control over their MCU movies than in Phase 4.
I think MoM, TLAT, and Eternals, What If, BPWF, Loki, and Ms Marvel seemingly have the most creative freedom the MCU ever had
@@Carabas72 To me it feels censored. Like the directors might have explored some aspects further but couldn't because of guidelines. It is only more diverse compared to earlier works and we certainly see progress. But compared to other movies and shows Disney is far behind and this restricts the kinds of stories creators can tell within in the franchise.
This video is a fresh of air honestly. While I haven't liked everything in phase 4, I honestly am tired of seeing every youtubers talk about how bad everything is and how the mcu will never be the same or is becoming "woke". You can get caught in a negative spiral if you listen to that much negatively.
Yeah isn't it nice to see some positivity every once in a while
100% agree 👍
Yeah I’m feeling that
I know bro
I agree
Another important point is that we know that phase 5 is going to be more "focused". Ant-Man Quantunmania and GOTG v3 are both the third part of a trilogy, and Quantunmania literally has the villain of Loki as the main villain, The Marvels a sequel and connects to two other shows by featuring two of their characters, Captain America 4 is a sequel, continues the plot of a show and old characters from the MCU return, Thunderbolts is literally a team-up, and Blade probably connects with Eternals.
I think people forget this is a cinematic universe that sometimes you have to wait years for a payoff, there’s at least 2 more phases to wrap everything up, pretty sure it’s gonna do that over the next few years
ppl in sum years are gonna appreciate this phase
@@onmoron4175 factsss
It's just like the first "Infinity Saga". Phase 1 was a bunch of relatively standalone stuff to build the world out, Phase 2 was focused on sequels to established stuff, and Phase 3 brought all those characters and stories together for a big finale
Phase 4 is (literally) expanding the world, 5 looks like oops all sequels, and phase 6 ends with a 2 part giant crossover against a villain who showed up in smaller roles in both of the prior phases !!
@@PanglossWasWrong yeah, people like to pretend the MCU was completely connected before Phase 4, most of the movies are standalones, sequels, or big epic blockbusters, it’s not always connected, especially in the beginning
The same thing happened with Phase 2 - people were complaining that it wasn't focused and was just listless, but it was setting up the MCU for Phase 3. If you can't see how many threads are being carefully placed in Phase 4 to be picked up and developed in a focused way in Phase 5, I don't know what to tell you.
"Carefully placed threads“😂
@@ramigilneas9274 Like I said, i don't know what to tell you. But as long as you're laughing, I'm sure that's all that counts, right?
It's not carefully placed. It's so filled in with random "promise of epic stuff" everywhere, it's like each film lives in it's own MCU... (Do you get it? It's like it's they are... IN THEIR OWN UNIVERSES, HAHAHAAA)
Too much and every inch is fulled of it.
Phase 2 pulled almost all of it straight to the Blue Daddy right away and in an obvious way.
Here - every inch of every film pulls it in it's own way and just only half of them seem to have connected promises on the future narrative of the next phase.
@@FirstLast-wk3kc This is exactly what everyone was saying in Phase 2. And frankly who cares if they're going in a thousand directions? They're putting together an entire world, and I'm fairly sure that the world isn't just one monolithic story, yes?
I can see where stories are coming from and where they may go in Phase 4 through 6 pretty clearly just from this introduction. It's no big mystery what threads are important, which are character beats and which are going to be left dangling and returned to on down the road. It's clear which characters are going to be introduced and how. Even s cursory glance at the MCU with any sort of knowledge of how stories actually work outside of half-assed fan-fic should inform you of what you're seeing in Phase 4. If that doesn't agree with what you think Marvel "ought" to be, fine. But I'm enjoying the ride and if I don't like someone, I don't expend all my energy trying to convince those who do that they're wrong.
this is not true. Phase 2 had 2 teases of the ultimate big bad while also developing it's main two protagonists in big ways. Now y'all are just saying things.
I don't care what anyone says, I really loved the fact that Phase 4 has self contained stories like Moon Knight, Hawkeye & even She-Hulk. Sure they'll be connected to some grand story arc (it's a cinematic universe afterall), but this way there'll always be something to look forward to even if you're tired with the franchise. Self contained stories are what a long running franchise needs imo.
I feel like Hawkeye is the least self contained story in the MCU so far. Everything was set up. Kate Bishop, Echo, Kingpin’s return. The series felt like it existed to retire Hawkeye.
yeah. I love self contained stories better than a big team up thing. That's why I've never seen Infinity War and found the Avengers movies themselves to be fairly boring. I only like stories where they have their own thing going on, instead of huge collabs with people I care little about. It just feels like an ensemble story that doesn't really focus on anyone.
@@nochannelmusician769hawkeye is just one of the worst Disney MCU shows tbh. Wasnt even a hawkeye show it was a kate bishop show.
Before watching the video: I’ve noticed three key themes uniting phase four, in my opinion.
#1: Choice
In Wandavision, the people were given no choice but to be in the sitcom world. Only when Wanda chose to let them go could they leave.
In F&WS, Sam chooses to not be the new cap, leading to Walker getting the shield.
In Loki, they explore if these basically gods are controlling the timeline, do you really choose your own path?
In Black Widow, the Black Widows had no choice but to work for Dreykov
In Shang Chi, he chooses not to be his father.
In What If, choice is pretty obviously a theme.
In Eternals, they characters choose to go against their god.
Hawkeye doesn’t really apply.
In Spider-Man No Way Home, Peter chooses to help the villains and he chooses for everyone to forget him
In Moon Knight, the theme is kinda there that they can’t choose to not do something wrong before their killed by Amit.
Dr strange 2 doesn’t really apply
I don’t remember if Ms marvel applies.
In Thor 4, Jane chooses to die a hero than to live with regret, and gorr chooses to love, not hate.
In she hulk, Jen doesn’t choose to have her powers, and it leads to problems in her life.
#2: Grief I’m just going to list all that apply (cuz it’s kinda obvious)
Wandavision
Black Widow (kinda)
What If…?
Spider-Man No Way Home
Thor 4
Black Panther 2
#3 Legacy
F&WS
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Wakanda Forever
Those are just my thoughts though
What’s the third?
@@calebcunningham4927 legacy
I believe that Ms Marvel also features the theme of grief since a major theme of the finale is the partisan of India and Pakistan from Kamala’s grandmother’s perspective. I’d go more in-depth but honestly I don’t want to spoil the finale because it’s really really good.
@@thatpersonmariah3997 Oh I watched it I just forgot
@@thatmovienitpicker8070 I was doing that since I didn’t want to spoil it for anyone who stumbled upon these comments
What I love about Phase 4 is that thematically it has a pretty clear unifying question- What Makes a Person Themselves?
Throw a dart at phase 4, and you hit a story that’s (after one fashion or another) about how much has to happen to a person before they stop being “themselves,” and what that self even means.
You just blew my mind with this comment so much that I had to come back a few minutes later to comment, because wow you’re right
Nicely pondered :P
(phase 4 spoiler warning)
Like Spider-Man interacting with alternate versions of himself and getting reminded what super heroics are all about, like Marc and Stephen facing the trauma to find their truth, like Kamala discovering that she's a Jin (djinn?) And deciding what she stands for, like the eternals coming to terms with the fact that they're artificial beings meant to raise societies just for new celestials to feed on, like Loki finding out that nothing he'd ever done was ever going to succeed because events were predestined, like Wanda facing the fact that she was living a lie at the expense of a town full of helpless people. I see it all connected in that way now, thank you!
@@skippykay599ok... let's all calm down. You can say that about any of the MCU films.
"I had a professor once who told that there are only 10 plots in all of fiction. Well, I'm here to tell you that there is only one: "Who am I?" "
That quote is directly from the english literature teacher whose class Peter walks in late to at the end of The Amazing Spider-Man. It's a good capstone to the film and it's universally true. The Avengers in all their movies as ensemble grapple with the questions "who are we? Why are we needed?"
@@thembanitheone fair point, but to that I’d argue also that 1) Who Am I? is a theme, not a plot, and 2) unlike plots, movies can have many themes at once.
Looking at the 4 Avengers movies, for instance, “Who are we and why are we needed” is definitely a uniting question among the four of them, but Avengers 1 also asks “what is the relationship with each of these characters and the idea of ‘control’?”
Age of Ultron asks “what makes someone a monster, what makes someone a God, and where in the spectrum do our heroes fall?”
Infinity War asks “what is the stronger force between morality/empathy and willpower?”
And Endgame asks “how do these characters respond to shared loss, and how much has each one grown since we met them?”
The Amazing Spider-Man quote is a pretty one, but ignores how every story, by nature, ends up being about something very specific, even if only minutely, or by accident.
My main concern about phase 4 is loss quality in favor of quantity
Yeah, your Right it might expand perspectives and push the multiverse but if overall the quality is mostly bad than who cares about the perspectives and push to the multiverse
While the observation may be somewhat accurate, I really don't think of this as a legitimate concern. There's no reason quality and quantity can't coexist, and I don't think making less projects would make them any better. Hell less projects might be even worse cause that would mean if a bad project comes out, you have to wait even longer for a good one.
@@racool911 with all due respect, I think that's propostrous. We can already see the effect of it already with phase 4. Do you have an idea about why the quality level has dropped? It's not terrible, I like more than half the projects so far, but I think it's undeniable that it has been a higher miss rate than usual for the MCU. To me it's pretty clear that Mr. Feige, the reason all these movies have worked out so well, doesn't have the time to focus all his energy on each individual project. He's been needing to hire Middle management to oversee things in his abcense. Furthermore, the latest debacle with Blade proves this. A bad script that went past Feige? And delaying a movie a few weeks before production because the director walked off? There's no way that could've happened in phases 1-3
@@racool911 yeah they should be able to coexist but they don’t. It is also an extremely valid concern. Marvel/Disney is sacrificing the quality of cgi and airtight stories in favour of pumping out content and it shows.
@@riz3688 I second that. I didn't even mention the cgi problem which is extremely apparent in the newer phase 4 stuff
Love the work bud, thanks for not trying to appease the toxic side of this fandom as many others did for short term gain
tru lol have u seen his she-hulk videos? the last one very clearly points this out😅
Yep exactly.
@#SaveDareDevil~MÉX I think, in my opinion at least, She-Hulk is a special exception. Even if you give Phase 4 a chance to shine and to not always be so negative about it, She-Hulk is that one show that people definitely have valid reason for why it's just very poorly executed. It doesn't help it tries to bring real world controversy for short term "take that" at a loud minority of reddit users, even though a general audience would probably have no clue about this pseudo culture war. But again; it's just my opinion on this.
@@MAFDOMiNUS she hulk is an obnoxious show
@TheOutsider Jess oh trust me, it isn't just the writing that's poor. It's many attempts at being "funny" is something only a people who spend too much time online will get.
To my understanding, your argument is that phase 4 is not unfocused, but seeks to expand the possibilities of the universe for future films.
My argument boils down to this: Did these individual movies and shows need to be mediocre for phase 5 to be good?
My biggest problem with Phase 4 is honestly how many things there are to keep up. Not only they are putting more films per year than in Phase 3, you also have to watch the TV shows. I liked the few things I watched (Black Widow and Dr. Strange 2), but I'm honestly overwhelmed by the amount of work this phase requires.
Think your biggest problem should be with the writing, yknow, the thing that makes stories good.
The writing has been really bad in some shows like she hulk ruin the hulk in my opinion
@Splinch Splonch It's a quality v quantity thing for me. We have so much more and it can't be as interconnected or consistent because to make that many shows and movies they have to be written and produced concurrently. I think Thor L&T was the worst project this phase, but his brother and Dr. Strange also had it rough.
Huge re-shoots, lots of rewriting/alternate scenes, and CGI crunch problems are happening because Marvel directors/producers need to have enough material so that they can alter the story during editing. This makes it hard for the actors to know what is going on. Just look at the wildly inconsistent statements about the intent in the Loki show both from before and after it aired from an individual person and from different people involved in the production. People involved early on, like the soundtrack composer, are on the record describing Sylvie as a sister/mother figure to Loki.
@@splinchsplonch1243 Except this issue directly ties into the writing. In earlier phases it really wasn't that hard to keep up with the current story as there were only ever two movies coming out a year until the very tail-end of phase 3, and even in phase 3 you would only need to watch a few movies in order to not feel totally out of the loop on what's going on. Now not only are there three movies coming out every year, but there's also like four shows coming out on top of that that contain massively important plot points for the films. Its so jarring to watch films like Doctor Strange 2 or Ant Man 3 if you haven't been keeping up with the other mcu projects because a lot of important ideas or plot points were introduced in other media.
Then don’t watch all of it? No one said you had to and a lot of people have repeatedly very specifically said you don’t have to? If you don’t enjoy it and find it ‘work’ why would you? Leave watching everything to those of us who enjoy that and just watch what you want to watch.
I think a huge problem with engagement in phase 4 is the volume of content. 1-3 you had a film every 6-12 months, and that was an easy lift when it came to being a fan. Now, with the shows, it just feels constant, and for me, wearying. It's hard watch all of the shows, they have been mixed and there is books to read, plays to see, other shows to watch. They feel far less essential.
Also, the point about phase 2 not being focused is kind of moot, because both in phase 3's narrative and in how marvel has announced content, marvel has trained its audience to expect an overarching narrative with a obvious giant antagonist. It's hard to then complain when audiences are upset when they don't get that.
I definitely think this extra content is really dividing hardcore fans and casual fans. There's some who absolutely love the endless content while they're some that feel they can't keep up.
I absolutely agree with you. An oversaturation of content has turned me off before and that's probably the biggest issue here, especially if all that content is at best good.
I don't think anyone can say that absolutely everything in Phase 4 was garbage. Even the most ardent hater has a soft spot for No way Home. It is just that SO much of it was either mediocre (shang chi, moon knight), inconsistent (loki), uninspired (falcon and bucky) and yes some of it was unquestionably terrible (she hulk).
Phase 2 movies were worst than phase 4 movies.
No way home > Age of ultron
Multiverse of madness > Thor 2
Black panther 2 > Iron man 3
Shang Chi > Ant man
Eternals < Guardians of the galaxy
Captain america 2 < Black widow
Phase 4 - 4 points
Phase 2 - 2 points
I compare equivalent movies.
It’s most successful movies in their respective phase.
2 sequels to an origin story of a hero
Origin stories introducing new character.
Origin stories introducing a group of heroes.
Espionage stories with organisations that secretly run the world
@@prestigiorebelde there is no way Black Widow is better than Winter Solider lmfao
My personal issue with Phase 4 is more about the release schedule and production. There is SO much releasing. Quickly. And since I don't particularily like watching TV shows (I just don't enjoy the format and I don't feel like subscribing to D+ just for Marvel) and since they made over half of the slate TV shows... It just made me drop off because it felt like a hassle to keep up with everything.
Yeah at this point the MCU is becoming very much like the comics in scale and variety so I would recommend taking a comic approach to it. Only watch the stuff that has the characters you like or is a genre you know you'll enjoy. Then, when it comes to the big team up if there's a character you don't know that catches your attention, go back and watch their thing. It's totally fine not to keep up with everything at this point. In the world of comic readers it's expected. The crossover stories will give you the lowdown on whoever you don't know. The most you'll miss out on are a few inside jokes and references, but you'll still be able to follow the main thread just fine
@@legendswarble2845 THIS!! Well said. The movies are mirroring comics. If you like the Black Panther comics, then read those comics. The movies are the same now.
The discussion around 5:00 makes an important point about the recency bias around the supposed cohesiveness of the MCU prior to Endgame. If you kept up with the MCU since day one and were honest with yourself you would know that the franchise was fairly hit and miss in the build-up but all would be forgiven if the team-up film came together. So long as everything comes together in the Secret Wars all the misses of Phase 4 will be largely overlooked.
I may be an outlier but I have thoroughly enjoyed phase 4 from beginning until now. I'd say its almost as well intertwined as phase 3 and is setting up a lot of things for future phases as well. Most projects have been great and varied, not just a regular action film like before. Its been awesome for me.
Finally, someone with the same opinion
Exactly! I’m a younger Marvel fan and I’ve loved Phase 4.
Yeah i don't understand any of the criticisms of phase 4 honestly. it all just seems like people looking for something to complain about where there isn't any. The quality of the movies and shows has been, on average, as good as or better than those of the previous phases, and we're getting so much more variety and new ideas that were never introduced before now. I love it!
@@TheJeanp00l only criticism i personally agree with to some extent is the sheer amount of content. I was looking at the upcoming marvel projects and there seems to be an average of 12 projects (movies+shows) a year, which is a bit much. A nice 2-3 movies and 2-3 shows a year would be ideal for me. But I can't lie, I'll still watch everything as soon as it releases.
Word
this is honestly one of the most fair videos about phase 4, people expected this phase to be the same as phase 3 building up to the next big climax when the last one just ended, he really seems to have jumped in the phase with an open mind and got a lot out of it instead of wanting every movie and show to be as good as endgame. I've seen so many videos trashing phase 4 that I'm sick of it, mostly because they all say the same crap (all of them), really simplify everything that the phase has done and take it for granted, they all feel like they want those sweet sweet views and youtube money
Yes in order to stand out, people have to say controversial and/or negative things. Plus some of these comic book heads hate when the story and characters don't go the way they want, so they use the opportunity to say bs when they really are just trying to hide their personal preferences.
seriously. I think that people forget that, while previous phases might have had some really amazing hits, they had some flops and very mediocre movies that this phase doesn't really have. Some of their movies may not be for everyone, and they're not Endgame, but none of them reach Iron man 3, Thor: the dark world, or the incredible hulk levels of mediocrity. All of phase 4 is at the very least enjoyable to watch, and many being surprisingly good movies/shows
@Pinkalicious Weirdo FRR, people dogged on captain marvel and antman and the wasp liek crazy when they came out, but we ignore them entirely when discussing phase 3.
I actually love Phase 4. There are issues (like anything) but the MCU is far from dead! I like that these seemingly disparate elements will come together in (presumably) Secret Wars. Love your channel and it’s refreshing to see some positivity about it!
Also: someone who I’d personally like to see return during phase 5/6 (even if they’re just a multiversal version) is Nick Cage as Johnny Blaze/Ghost Rider
Phase 4 has honestly been my favorite phase. Sure it has some weak points, but so does every other MCU phase. I feel like people have nostlagia goggles on and have set the bar for themselves too high with Endgame. It is gonna take buildup to get back to that point, and for me phase 4 has been really good buildup
I hadn’t even considered Nick Cage appearing, but now that you mention it, that would be brilliant
What I'm most realizing is how much I wish they were thinking ahead from the very beginning. Destroying the bifrost just to have it not mean anything, and be totally rebuilt with hardly any explanation in subsequent films? The unceremonious killing of baron Strucker off camera? Totally ignored or forgotten set ups, like evil Mordo, or Scorpion, or Leader? I would've actually loved it if Ultron was first introduced as an assistant robot in a previous film like he was in the comics, or perhaps a fleet of robot soldiers to help fend off an alien invasion like in EMH. For a franchise that prides itself upon everything being connected, I really wish everything was better connected.
Well we are getting the leader in Cap 4 so not all have been forgotten.
Personally I put a lot of my own head cannon in there. Like in my head Odin sending Thor to Earth in the first Avengers was the start of his weakening which leads to his passing in Ragnarok. They're just little fun breadcrumbs that you could make whatever you want with
@@vingrier87 I do a lot of that too.
@@vingrier87 Mordo, Scorpion, and Leader will all be used later. Trust
I guess Mordo would show up in ds3
My problem isn’t lack of direction, it’s lack of quality. The only phase four stories I liked were Wandavision, Loki, Eternals, and Dr Strange.
No way home?
Werewolf by night
Moon Knight?
What if?
Shangchi?
I actually loved Phase 4. It was definitely messier, but I liked seeing the MCU try new things.
I feel this phase is dedicated to feeling out the new characters and developing then as people. After all, war is approaching and they won't have much chance to explore their individuality afterwards
Damn. Really wish they actually did that now, then.
@@tevenpowell8023 …..they did though???
Ya I'm honestly surprised people were complaining about a lack of focus. They multiverse was pretty clear from the start and they introduced a Kang variant in like the third project? Seemed pretty obvious to me. Great video by the way. You made me appreciate certain aspects of the phase I hadn't thought about
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
Phase 4 really is a hit or miss phase for the MCU
Though we still end up getting great projects that are WandaVision, Loki, No Way Home, Moon Knight, Multiverse of Madness (similar with Iron Man 3), Werewolf by Night, and Wakanda Forever.
Marvel just needs to continue pushing what made things worked in Phase 4 while also improving what they need to work on. Phase 4 is experimental for a reason.
I'm so happy you made this video and I think the future if marvel does look bright phase 4 just has bigger build up because the multiverse saga needs more groundwork than the infinity saga but thank you and I am so excited to see kang soon
The problem with phase 4 has never been a lack of focus or set up. It’s actually actively setting up more than Phase 1 did. The problem is the quality of the writing and filmmaking. In the first three phases, a bad Marvel movie was an outlier. Now we’re surprised when Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is a competently told story with heart and a voice and feels like a real movie.
Yes this! This video isn't bad but it doesn't focus on what makes phase 4 bad
Exactly. It is definatelynhard to watch these movies and shows since they are obviously going to be less impactful than phase 3, but if the writing is done well, then the audience will be there. The problem is that the writing is not done well most of the time. Heck, while watching 4/5 of the shows that I watched, I felt the need to pause anywhere between 2 times per minute and once every 5 minutes, just so I could verbally complain to myself about how bad the storytelling is.
Although, this isn't just a problem with marvel. This is also happening in star wars, making me think this is an issue with Disney.
You were so close until you said Wakanda Forever was competent and bad MCU movies in the first three phases were outliers
This comment is subjective tho. Your opinions are not everyone else's facts. I think the writing was fine so far. See what i mean?
The creator is just pointing out that phase 4 does have a focus and a direction. It's not as "all over the place" as people make it out to be.
@@bojack2011 You think the writing is fine while I think the writing is bad, that is an opinion but they are formed from what objectively happens in the movies and whatever standard we have formed when judging media on their quality.
Take Black widow for instance where Natasha is damaged as a character because we are shown she cares about her sister and the other widows but she never once tries to ask for help from the other superheroes (since the movie takes place after the airport fight in Civil War) and never tried to make sure the Red Room was destroyed in any of the prior MCU phases.
Something else worth pointing out about Phase 4 is that there is an overarching theme revolving around grief and dealing with it.
-Shang Chi's central conflict was started by the death of the title character's mother, with our hero and villain both dealing it and how it divided them.
-No Way Home saw Spider Man lose his aunt, is helped by the other Spider Men in dealing with his grief, Andrew Garfield's Spider Man also dealing with the lose of his own love interest.
-Love & Thunder had Gorr driven by the pain of losing his family, Thor is still dealing with the pain of what he lost in his last few appearances, and how his lover is dying.
-Wakanda Forever is about Shuri dealing with the loss of T'Challa, and the other loses in the movie.
I feel it's easy to forget that before the Avengers, the MCU was just another bunch of superheroes movies. Rewatching the debuts of Iron Man and Captain America I enjoyed them more than when they first came out but I feel a big part of that is looking at the movies through the lens of hindsight given we know their journeys after these movies.
Phase 4 hasn't drawn me in like 2 & 3 did but I do love that it is trying to experiment with new ideas so you never fully know what you are getting into with each movie or TV series until you actually see it.
Yep exactly.
Even in WandaVision where she is dealing with the loss of Vision to the point where she crosses a line.
I couldn’t agree more! This is so true. I’ve loved every moment of phase 4 with the ups and downs, pros and cons, and have always been the voice for marvel in this time when so many “fans” have hated every aspect of it. Marvel hasn’t been completely perfect or completely off track in every phase. And there’s more to phase 4 than the common popular opinion (marvel is falling off) acknowledges. From story telling, to world building and straight up cinematic excellence. It’s up to marvel now to bring this all together in phase 5 & 6 to make an awesome and epic culmination in Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars!! And it’s up to us to jump on for the ride and appreciate the journey and climaxes.
They are going to blow it
@@HankPBFordthen don’t watch it
@@HankPBFord Explain
@@koalaunder007 they don't have their core characters to lean on. Chris Evans, RDJ, the last Thor was embarrassing, Chadwick Boseman passed away, the reason spiderman did good is because it wasn't under Disneys control. You can't build up new characters by bringing the old ones down, it is disingenuous and that is where some resentment is coming from. Guardians 3 will prob be the best in the next phase because James Gunn is pretty consistent. Whoever is making the calls at marvel for this new stuff has really let the quality slip and calling fans racist or sexist is not a good way to cover it up.
@@HankPBFord even those core characters are not core characters when they started at 2008..they are D list characters but marvel made them popular so they can do for new heroes let's wait for few years..
It does have a focus, add as many female characters as possible, and replace as many male characters with female version as possible.
That's because people were conplaining about the lack of female protagonists pre-Captain Marvel. That was literally the biggest criticism MCU got constantly up to that point. And yet when Marvel finally gives fans what they have been asking for, everyone is still complaining.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying it's what fans have been asking for.
Thank you for making this video. This is what I've been telling my friends. I'm a comics guy first, and after endgame I did step away from the MCU a bit. Phase 4 is not aimless at all, it's more like the comics than any previous phase imo. Before, each phase was only about the avengers team. Now, it's opened up to the larger universe allowing for new character bubbles to show up, just like the comics. Also this is the start of a new saga, we're practically back at phase 1. You gotta introduce the characters and get their story going before you think about team ups. Thunderbolts is doing this well. Phase 4 isn't aimless, people just don't wanna see the direction it's going. Also I loved She-Hulk, while it wasn't objectively the best, it did the character justice. Hawkeye is probably my favorite thing from this phase with Spidey NWH and WBN next
Honestly I know the quality has sometimes been inconsistent but i love big swings and I really respect the efforts to diversify the people that we put in front of huge audiences and call heroes. I'll take just about every phase 4 project over a lot of the previous phases because its been creative and experimental and so deeply invested in carving out new worlds for more than just some white guys fighting armies of robots
Agreed most definitely.
It's definitely rough though! I like the idea, though I do believe it could use more workshopping. The plotholes are absolutely mind numbing 😅
@ֺ what plotholes do you mean?
@@MCDJEntertainment Hi yes so by plotholes, I mean like the ones from Loki! For ex. if every TVA, or most of every TVA agent are variants of people from different universes, how did they not realise? Surely someone sorting out their filing system or someone getting sent out to correct a timeline would've figured out or seen the variation of themself by now and realised, "Oh god, everything I've been working for is a lie."
What happens when TVA agents discover the truth? Do they just get pruned afterwards? How do they not find out the truth when it's so out in the open? Maybe this will get explained further in the next season, but for now it's a bit of a huge hole.
Another one I can think of is in WandaVision! What I can remember is that the Masters of the Mystic Arts (Doctor Strange, Wong..) are supposed to protect the world from threats like Wanda, Loki, etc. But how come none of them intervened, brought up, or did anything about the situation in Westview? I mean it's not like it probably wasn't reported on either. Wanda brought it up in MoM, and Strange seemed to know of it, but why didn't they try to prevent it? It could be that it's Wanda's show and they wanted to focus on her, but it just bugs me a lot that it didn't seem too much of a concern to Wong or Strange that people were kinda being contained by this giant magical box, created by such a powerful multiversal being.
And also in NWH, since all memory of Peter Parker has been wiped and whatnot, I'm just curious on how much of him was wiped. Do his school records still exist? If so, what about his teachers? Do they still remember him? What if they check the records and find his name on it and go, "Huh? Who's Peter Parker?" and accidentally undo the spell? If all documents of Peter are also erased then how was he able to rent an apartment? How will he be able to function in society in general? He won't be able to open a bank account, get a job, go to school, if his birth certificate and other documents of importance don't exist.
And just a thought, but in She-Hulk, if She-Hulk was just able to rewrite her entire story by breaking the fourth wall- does anything really matter at this point anymore? People could just go to her and ask for her to change something and she could say, "Okay pal! I got'chu!" Break the fourth wall, go to K.E.V.I.N. and then ask for a new storyline. And boom! Everyone's problems are essentially resolved! I have a lot of major gripes with that show, story telling and narrative wise, as a bit of a huge She-Hulk fan, and that fourth wall breaking thing alone just boggles me! 😭 I feel like they had more of a clearer vision for the show in the beginning, but decided to scrap it for whatever reason instead so we get this half baked muddy mess as a result. Not to hate and to each their own though! There's just some things I wish they did and didn't do with that show, and I really believe they should've put that thing back in the oven to bake for longer.
These could all just be some of my pet peeves or whatnot, but they've been things I did lose a little sleep over. I do believe they'll get explained (well, I'm more hoping on that end lol), but for now they've been quite mind numbing.
There's also another volume of plotholes I could list if you'd like! These are just like a few of them, and I have like a whole google doc of every plothole in the MCU that bugs me, and possible explanations I gave for them!
To be fair, Phase 4 was more about introducing new characters, like Kate Bishop and Ms Marvel, and saying goodbye to old ones, like Black Widow. It’s not the most interconnected phase, but look at Phase 1, besides Iron Man 1 and 2, most of those movies were introductions to the Avengers, and they only met in Avengers. It’s the fact that Phases 2 and 3 were so interconnected that now everyone expects that kind of content, but it takes a while to get there, especially with the restrictions the movies and shows had with COVID
I think when we watch Phase 5 and 6 Phase 4 will be remembered as the Phase that set this stuff up/The Phase that introduced so many new important characters.
I thought phase 4 was a interesting way to continue marvel universe after endgame
The funny thing is, back in phase 2 and 3 criticism of the universe was incredibly uncommon. Whenever someone pointed out the flaws in an MCU project it was extremely refreshing, and all of the marvel super-fans acted like clones, unable to see the bad in things.
These days, its the complete opposite. Its become common to hate on the MCU, to the point where its become a literal trend. People relentlessly criticise these films, and they're the ones acting like clones. Ive seen so many people get harrassed for their opinions surrounding these films, it just annoys me that people so negative, aggressive and judgemental think themselves above the fans of the universe, when in reality they're just following a trend like sheep. The films really havent gotten that much worse.
Honestly this is my favorite phase due to the characters. If Steve was still there, the X-Men were present, and Thor was serious instead of comedic, it'd be perfect.
And also if they made the new characters actually good
Boy do I envy you
you flicked too hard dammit!
The vision, to me, was never the problem…. Is the execution. Every project struggled with quality. It was disrespectful to the actors, the fans, the characters and the medium over all.
While some would say that Phase 4 is a hit or miss, it is admirable how the MCU has been expanding thanks to it. The lore is bigger than ever now, and there is so much to explore regarding future projects.
They also experimented a lot more with this Phase on a creative aspect, and the fact that some people are so vocal about it proves that it works. Remember, there is less to no point talking about something mild. Something really good or bad on the other hand, now that's a subject for discussion.
For me, Love and Thunder was the biggest misfire. It felt like a bolt on because Taika wanted to do it.
Everything else did seem to be building something, it just feels like they're building multiple pathways not just one
Exactly. Shang Chis rings, the woman at the end of DS2, Zeus, the symbiote, the Eternals god-thing showing up. Multiple pathways.
@@Beastinvader and no actual focus. Just the board ideas of cosmic entities and multiverse
I mean it's all multiverse now.
I feel like Taika wasn’t 100% focused on Love And Thunder unfortunately
Mom, wake up! There's a new PoG vid!
PoGgers.
Agreed. I'm just starting to make my way into Phase 4, but I thought these expansions and new angles were self-evident. I would also add that the seemingly disjointed nature of Phase 4 has to be taken in context. The events of Infinity War and Endgame put these characters and their entire world through heavy, traumatic events. Their world literally fell apart and was then put back together - sort of. Far from Home and WandaVision may be the stories most overtly focused on this, but it's an undercurrent elsewhere, especially in the various streaming series.
I feel like if Marvel had produced, say, another shorter phase similar to phase one as phase four, people would be more excepting of the current phase four projects as a phase five, if that makes any sense.
You could have the Shang-Chi and Black Widow movies we got, then maybe a Falcon movie, and a slightly lower-stakes Dr. Strange adventure, and the crossover between the characters from them in an Avengers-like movie, but relatively low stakes (maybe fighting Justin Hammer or something?). Then release the rest of what we've gotten. I think people would be more fine with the breadth of the current content releases if it had a stronger foundation.
This is an interesting food for thought, thanks PoG.
I do think the experimental stuff is a good step and getting more comic book shenanigans is great. I still think Spider-Man being entirely nostalgia bait and Wanda being "evil" but ultimately forgiven twice... It worries me. Like they won't have the courage to really go through with their more radical ideas. And I worry they'll revive dead characters through the multiverse
Phase 4 might have a “purpose” but maybe marvel would’ve done better at showing they’re “purpose“ more instead of scattering the idea around multiple different specific movies not everything in phase 4 really connects
i agree with what you say, except my gripes with phase 4 is the individual story telling of each entry is horrible.
Its not about an over arching thanos level event. Its about the movies themselves not being good for the most part, save for a few outliers
Exactly. What's to come doesn't matter if what we have right now isn't good. It's way more difficult to build a good story without a firm foundation, which is what these movies are meant to be.
Also, these movies and shows are kind of just ignoring or ruining the old characters (like Wanda in doctor strange 2 was really weird, and Hawkeyefinally gets his own show but he's not even the main character). They should be connecting the new with old, but instead they are just trying to move on.
I don't think this way I know this phase means something everything means something in the MCU. I'm just happy that they are making content for people like me and for those that don't like the Disney content or certain marvel movies it's simple don't freaking watch them.
This is very fair, I don’t enjoy them but have no issue with people that do. Not sure why people have to be so hyperbolic all the time.
There might have been a few bad eggs more than we're used to in this phase but I personally REALLY enjoy the fact that we're getting a more diverse style of content. As you said, something like Werewolf by Night or WandaVision would never have been possible before. We no longer only get MCU projects, we get xy projects set in the MCU and that's so much fun.
The pandemic and the mouse's demand for tons of streaming content forcing Feige to repurpose movie scripts for shows did hurt this phase but I still really enjoyed it even without controlling for these factors.
shows were planned to be part of the MCU before the pandemic was even a thing, Disney+ came out like 4 months before the pandemic. the only thing that was the mouses demand on Fiege is probably BlackWidow/ShangChi being able to pay for on Disney+ but every platform was doing that
@@dannyboi6636 And they were filmed during the pandemic. Just because the higher-ups had told him to plan a certain number of shows, doesn't mean he had enough time to do it well.
This was my favourite phase for a few reasons, firstly, I was just really happy with the quality of the content, secondly, I loved how it seemed less ashamed of being comic booky and silly, leaning into more outlandish visuals and characters and thirdly is that it introduced characters I've wanted to see for so long like Kate Bishop or Kamala Khan, you pretty much covered all my other reasons.
While Phase 3 is my favourite Phase so far, I don't begrudge you in the slightest for loving Phase 4 the best, because I personally really liked Phase 4 too. Did I love EVERY SINGLE project in Phase 4? No, but the same goes for the previous 3 phases, even Phase 3. But like with Phases 1 and 3, the Project in Phase 4 I do love outweigh the ones I don't. I also agree about the comic booky elements. I geeked out when Wanda showed up in her comic book costume at the end of WandaVision or when Peter was wearing his iconic Red and Blue Spider-Man Suit from the comics at the end of Spider-Man No Way Home. Some projects ended up being better than I had expected them to like Shang-Chi and Ms Marvel, where I ended up loving both. I just will people will accept that we've moved away from the mentality of the early to mid 2000s Superhero Movies like Bryan Singer's X-Men and Christopher Nolan's Batman where those movies did seem a bit ashamed of the material. Ntm, Kate Bishop is my favourite Character introduced in Phase 4 and Hawkeye's one of my Top 10 Favourite MCU Projects.
I would say the main problem of Phase 4 for me. Is that I was Naive enough to think the Phase was good at the beginning. I'm now a 17 year old who's a young critic. I wouldn't say that the problem with phase 4 was the setting up or anything. It's main problem is the writing.
Black Widow: It should have been made before Infinity War. And the whole Taskmaster mess. It just baffles me.
Shang Chi and The Ten Rings: It sticks a bit much to comedy and it doesn't help it. And it made a mockery of the one villain we've been waiting for. The Manderin.
Eternals: It's trying to juggle too many characters at the same time. It hurts the film a lot. The only reason I didn't stop watching was just to see how they would use the CGI.
Spider-Man No Way Home: It's ultimately the best Marvel product since Endgame. But it's problems are there and can't be ignored. So it's good but it's flaws still hurt it.
Doctor Strange The Multiverse of madness: I didn't find it interesting. I liked some things in it. But those are at least 1 or 2. And they were very very short moments. Like a theme or just how the scene looked for the second. ignoring why it was even happening. Yeah this movie is a mess.
Thor Love and Thunder: It doesn't take itself seriously. I've never watched the film but I've heard enough to know that I don't want to waste anymore of my teen life on a franchise that is dying. And from what I've heard. Yeah. I'm glad I skipped this.
"Black Panther" Wakanda Forever: I don't see why I need to watch it. Unless I'm forced to by a friend I'm not wasting 2 hours of my life watching this movie. Heard enough to just stay away from it.
Wandavision: The first sign of me being naive. I liked the beginning and even the end of the show. But my opinion has changed. For a multitude of reasons. The first half was great. Not knowing what was actually happening made the show so good. But than I realized later that the second half of the show just went downhill. Especially the last episode.
The Falcon And The Winter Soldier: Interested me and the beginning but felt nothing as time went on. I chuckled at something in it but I made the assumption of it being good. But I realized later my opinion was horrible. I've seen through my mistakes. I've come back as a better person.
Loki: Just like every other movie and show I don't see myself coming back to it. This was the second to last show I had my hopes up. But once again it destroys it's own main character.
What if?: I only see myself rewatching 2 episodes. The Doctor Strange episode and the episode where Ultron takes over the world. Those are the only episodes. Everything else I can't.
Hawkeye: Liked it. Opinion of the second half of the show changed. Besides that. I like how it started.
Moon Knight: The final show I watched enthusiastically. I had found a video named 'Shit Moon Knight says" That got me hyped for the show. I still liked the show. And I will say my opinion of the show only dwindled 25%. Besides that. I still love the show.
Ms. Marvel: Didn't watch it. Don't regret it.
I am Groot: I'll watch it if I have the time. Or if I feel like I need a laugh.
She-Hulk Attorney at Law: Watched the first episode and regretted it. Spent too much time on the show. I only watched the 1st episode and after that just listened to what other RUclipsrs would say about it. I still regret spending even a second watching the 1st episode.
Werewolf By Night: My dad was excited about it. The first time since Endgame. So I watched it and I can say. I finally don't regret watching a Marvel Product.
Now it's just my opinion. Take it as a grain of salt. Yeah there is too much negativity nowadays. But the MCU will no longer be the same. I've already fallen out of love with the MCU. My dad has glimpses of hope. But I think a couple of days ago he got rid of his Disney + subscription. So his glimpse of hope is fading every marvel product Marvel makes. But if my dad likes something made by Marvel I'll watch it. Decide if it actually is worth my time. But I guess I'll go back watching Transformers Animated. Suggest watching it to anyone who sees this comment.
Honestly, I think phase 4 has been severely over-hated. Yes, I understand that it has had some missteps and some features being Underwhelming to Disappointing but it hasn't been bad as all these overwhelmingly negative videos on RUclips would suggest it is.
Also, If you're not a phase 4 or a fan of the direction or movies that is completely fine & your opinion. However, there's this very irritating narrative ppl keep saying "the MCU died after Endgame" That is complete and utter bullshit cuz the MCU Did Not die after endgame, Your Interest in the MCU died after Endgame, Get It Right
I'm glad to see videos like these talking about what Phase 4 is doing to progress, but I feel like the main problem of phase 4 comes down to building up old and new characters. She-Hulk, Eternals, Thor:LaT, and to an extent Dr.Strange:MoM and Loki, are, at least to me, big offenders of this, and It gets me worried for the future of Disney and Marvel, so I pray that these were just one off flooks done by Disney and Marvel.
Agreed. I would almost call this video too positive due to how boring a lot of these movies are... but its all pretty accurate.
Well what’s the great loss of Disney and marvel were to die that’s just the way it is adapt or die.
I disagreed about phase 1. It clearly had a direction. The end of Iron Man let’s you know where we’re headed… the formation of the Avengers.
Phase 2, although not perfect, still had its eyes on the prize while expanding the universe. Ex: GotG had a Thanos cameo in it & introduced us to the Power Stone and history of stones.
Phase 4 though… idk just hasnt hit me like I wanted it to. (loved Shang Chi btw). But it definitely feels more like quantity over quality.
Sorry man, phase 4 was not it. Established themes in the earlier phases felt a lot more cohesive and subtle overall, and didn't take away from the movie's entertainment or metaphorical value on it's own.
People liked werewolf by night cuz it was a 1 hour special,
They did not like the under cooked 6-9 hour Disney + show format with varying levels of writing quality and an underwhelming finale that ends up ranging from meh to ok.
And most of the shows like Hawkeye,. Moon knight, falcon and winter soldier could have been compressed into a 2 hr movie without much of a problem.
Just remember what happens in shows when people have wayyy too many protagonists. My main critique is that they are introducing wayyyy to many things for it to be all resolved in the end. Also, alot of the movies aren't a story that makes sense by itself anymore, and it's more of a lets introduce other things because we need a teaser for the next property. Like the movies are just trying to be way to many things at once...
I think Phase Four has been good but similar to Phase one it's the building Phase. Phas one IMO had hits & misses but things got better in other phases over time it's how I feel about Phase four they've had some misses but far more hits. Even with the misses they have had I have faith in marvel to the point where I'm willing to let it play out The infnty saga was a special time for us fans & the eleven year build to endgame was amazing. I have faith that when all is said & done we will get films that are on the same level of infinity war & endgame.
I’ve said this a lot during Phase 4 and I still stand by it.
Phase 4 is honestly amazing. Do I love everything they’ve made? No. Do I think everything they’ve made is flawless? Absolutely not. But what I love about Phase 4 is how diverse they are in characters, stories, genres, and really expanding the universe (or Multiverse technically) and pretty much saying that anything is possible. That’s why I’m in love with Phase 4 and I’ve got a feeling that the Multiverse Saga will be my favourite Saga in the MCU.
Then you love the concept of it but not the execution.
@@khaoss4024 I do like the execution of a lot of what they did, Black Widow, No way home, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wandavision, Falcon and The Winter Soldier, What if, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, those were films and shows I had a lot of fun with.
Then there’s She Hulk, where I only enjoyed one episode from the show and that was it.
But again, they did more good/entertaining content (to me at least) than content I thought was just alright or mid.
Finally someone isn’t just hating of the false of P4, but actually looking at how expansive it was, trying to things and ideas and rebuilding/setting up for the future. Not ever project was great, but they weren’t terrible as other made them out to be.
In my opinion they were “just alright” at worst.
I’ve noticed the connection since the beginning of phase 4. We didn’t really have an overly connected universe until avengers 1. Yeah some of these movies aren’t great in this phase, but you can’t say they aren’t connected, that’s a very narrow view. They’ve all been leasing to the multiverse and exploring what that could mean, they’ve had old characters bring in new ones to start their story. Just because you may not see the connection now, doesn’t mean in 5 years when this is all over you won’t go “oh shit yeah I can see it now.”
I just wish they cut down on the comedy aspect of the MCU, that was Thor L&T biggest problem. They’re all in the same genre of sci fi comedy. This quipy, witty dialogue that is used just ruins the tension’s of serious situations. Not every character needs to be a comedic, not every character needs to Tony Stark, Light banter is not always needed.
Marvel projects don’t need to lead up to something grand but they do need at least to be something that’s different.
The reason werewolf by night was well received was because it was actually something different then the same mediocre sci fi comedies that marvel has been shoving out.
As some who does watch the Critical Drinker every now and then and does gets tired from his takes, it's refreshing to see a different take on this phase of the MCU.
The diversity of the new characters is incredible and this expansion is welcomed. I'm all for showing the origins of the other heroes in the franchise. What I don't like this is the new characters being jerks towards the established characters. The producers don't want to pass the torch in a good way for some reason and that is why I do not like this phase. If these characters are not likeable in some shape or form, what is even the point of telling these stories of these so called super heroes? Let's not forget the quality drop in its writing and sfx as too much of it is being made. You're just supposed to consume one after the other, never really thinking about what you just watched. Leave that element for Mindless reality tv.
Phase 4 is incredibly experimental, but a majority of it just wasn't good, I hope they learn from their mistakes. Clearly the ones that worked were Shang- Chi, Multiverse of Madness and No Way Home.
What I consistently found interesting was how often people are complaining that Marvel is often to cookie cutter then when you have features coming out that aren't cookie-cutter, they complain that it wasn't cookie cutter....🤦♂️
In all honesty, I view Phase 4 as a return to where we were in the beginning with Phase 1. I think many forget this, but at the beginning, before the Avengers made everybody joygasm implode, there was a consensus that the movies leading up to the Avengers were mostly "meh". Iron Man got critical acclaim, BUT THEN Incredible Hulk was derided as "meh", Thor "meh", Iron Man 2 "meh", and the first Captain America was received as good and just good, and wasn't recognized as great until the years leading up to Infinity War.
I won't lie, I wasn't too fond of Black Widow, Thor 4, or Eternals, but on the flipside, I think Shang-Chi was the best solo MCU film since Ragnarok, Multiverse of Madness is probably a good type of mess, No Way Home was great, Wakanda Forever is getting acclaim, and hell, the Disney Plus series are pretty damn solid for the most part.
Obviously "wokism" has nothing to do with many products being subpar, it's about too many overlapping productions and teams not being given enough time. And mega studio interference
And finally, I actually wouldn't mind if the MCU let go of the idea we need to be building up to something big and they just chilled in the back and let artists do what they want. We need more variety and style instead of corporate tactics demanding everything be like the quippy self aware era of the MCU, and leading up to the something big. One of the reasons I started taking more breaks from the MCU and started getting back into Star Wars was because it seems Lucasfilm got rid of the idea everything needs to be made specifically for everybody with Rise of Skywalker's disappointment and instead they just went back to letting people do what they do. So I appreciated more variety, tones, and approaches. I don't give a shit about "tonal consistency" if the consistency results in mediocre products. I want risk taking and variety. If I wanna see deconstructions on Star Wars, I can see TLJ, Andor, and Fallen Order. If I wanna see fun road trips in Star Wars, I can see Solo or S1 of Mandalorian. If I wanna hang out with cool characters and get OT fan service, I can see TFA and S2 of Mandalorian. If I want the Boba Fett series I always wanted I can see BoBF, if I want prequel fan service I can see Kenobi, the list goes on.
I've been saying this for a while. While there have been a few more standard MCU productions, FaWS and Hawkeye, there has been more experimentation. And I think a lot of Phase 4 hate has been misplaced expectations
This is exactly what I've been telling people about Phase 4.
Great video.
So if I'm getting this right you're saying phase 4 focused on themes, genre, message, representation, output and media expansion.
Except I don't want any of that. I want a story with great writing and strong characters. Probably why I liked 'Werewolf by Night', sad we're not getting more of that.
The Title, Thumbnail, and Intro all implied that you were gonna prove me wrong and I was all, like, "Oh, boy, here we go again. Another video or post saying Phase 4 is bad." But all you did was prove me right. Phase 4 is awesome and it looks to me like you agree. Just for that, I'm giving you a Sub! Thanks for making this video!
Phase 4 to me is just phase 1 again. Whole bunch of new characters are being introduced, some previous characters are getting development, and it's all gonna mostly come together. That's how I've felt about it. Obviously it's not perfect, but that's how phase 1 was as well
exactly I’m tired of telling this to people
I got the return of Charlie Cox's Daredevil, Spider-Man No Way Home, and adaptations of Fraction's Hawkeye and Byrne's She-Hulk which I've been asking for a long time, so I'm quite happy with this phase
That was an absolute dogshit adaptation of Fraction's run
Yep true comic book fans would be very happy with phase 4.
@@iraford5788 *unhappy
@@iraford5788 no I dislike this phase a lot tbh. Amazing concepts but the execution falls flat
My ranking for Phase 4 Projects:
(Films)
1. Spider-Man: No Way Home
2. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (Still want a T'Challa recast though)
3. Shang-Chi: The Legend of Ten Rings
4. Doctor Strange: In the Multiverse of Madness
5.Thor: Love and Thunder
6. Black Widow
7. Eternals
(Shows)
1. Moon Knight.
2. Loki
3. Hawkeye
4. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier
5. WandaVision
6. What If..?
7. Ms. Marvel
8. I Am Groot
9. She-Hulk: Attorney At Law.
My excitement level for Phase 5 Projects ranked:
1. Blade
2. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
3. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
4. Daredevil: Born Again
5. Captain America: New World Order
6. The Marvels
7. Secret Invasion
8. The Thunderbolts
9. Loki Season 2
10. Echo
11. Iron Heart
12. Agatha: Coven of Chaos
I think people forget marvel basically did a reset and are essentially back in phase 1 or at least back in the build up stage / introduction of new characters and mysteries. Phase one on its own isn’t much but the combination and growth throughout the phases makes it all amazing. They are currently making the structure of the new world and will only grow and develop. I like the series that are kind of a step back from movie marvel and more of a well this is what they get up to on the daily
Online it sometimes feels like I'm alone in loving phase 4. I was a little iffy on shows like she hulk but overall still thought it was fun at times.
Most complaints people have online seem way overblown to me.
What a great commentary on the success of Phase 4. So tired of so many rewriting history of the Infinity Saga and comparing 3 to 4. They don't compare 1 to 4 like you did. Well done!
For me, saying it has no direction tries to express something different, I am not that great with words but hear me out here:
Yes its about the multiverse, but Loki, Advengers endgame, docter strange and spider man all have a different interpretation of the multiverse, if all properties from all those media are translated to one film/series it will be a mess. In my opinion, it just does not make any sense,
If you disagree, please give an explanation of the multiverse that is not outright contradicted in any mainline phase 4 mcu media.
Alright, so finishing this, I'm seeing the argument, "More IS better." A lot more than actual evidence phase four is good. More world building doesn't necessarily make it better, because proper world building has focus, otherwise everything feels chaotic, especially when you introduce a multiverse. Imo, they're expanding, but I think they expanded too much too fast and it'll be hard for them to achieve a cohesive, or multiple cohesive stories with how much they expanded without refinement. That's the main complaint I have about this video, a lot of emphasis on more is better, which some of the arguments are valid, but when it comes to world building, I have to disagree.
After hearing all of this, after listening, I have made my decision and while you make a few good points-! I'm for the most part unconvinced, sure it has a lot of world building and has lots of expansion, that doesn't stop the fact that a lot of the stuff made in phase 4 are hot garbage in my personal opinion. They expand but also limit the story because none of the big events are noticed from those of another world. But that's something often seen in the Mcu. Tame for example a planet sized robot standing in front of Earth, completely unnoticed by fucking every hero, or whatever. What I'm trying to say is there's a lot of inconsistent bullshit writing, to the point when I watched black adam, a DC movie which I at times have doubts for thought was better then a majority of what phase 4 has in store, but that's just me.
Respect your analysis but phase 4 may be building to something big but objectively imo is still worse than the previous phases that's just me
My personal problem with phase 4 is what has been done to established characters.
King Pin and Hawkeye deserved way better
The number one complaint that makes me laugh is people saying there is too much to keep up. Don't let FOMO get to you. You don't have to watch everything.
Just like how comic readers don't read every comic, follow what you like and the characters that you relate to. The team up movies do a good job of introducing what you need to enjoy them. If the movies are less connected now then its even easier to just watch which ones you know you'll like.
For example there were 3 movies in 2022 for a total of 8 hours across an entire year. Then three tv shows that are less important to to the overall phase than the movies so they are easily skipped if you please. It honestly takes so little time to "keep up" with the franchise.
There is definitely a lot of setup in phase 4, like a lot a lot so I don't like when people say that. My issue with phase 4 is some terrible screenplays. Multiverse of Madness and Thor Love and Thunder were atrocious. The writing issues during MoM production irritated me when we are talking about a massive company that could afford to fix it and do it properly. I'm just glad they are sorting out Blade. Shang Chi takes top spot for me, have rewatched it many times since.
I would still argue the overall quality has gone down, but to say it has no plan is false, and it does have good stuff, mainly the spiderman movies and black-panther wakanda forever.
Phase 4 is the regrounding, the 1st part of the new phase trilogy. It's uncomparable to any other phase because it both parallels phase 1 and epilogs phase 3.
Phase 1 had 5 movies (1 of which was a sequal), maybe 4 shorts, and a team up, which was the 1 big story of the phase.
Phase 4 has 7 movies, 8 shows, 1 set of shorts, and 2 holiday specials all setting up 3 different teams (young, new, dark avengers maybe with different names), a big new villian (kang), and 3 different conflicts (post snap world politics, dark avengers, multiversal problems), but isn't in a position to deliver on any of them yet. Individual project have different goals and styles, and I dont think a single 1 failed at either of those 2 aspects when you think about what they are. Every project was a success at its own goal narrative & cinematicly. It's so unnuanced for anyone to say phase 4 sucks. Are there a few bad scenes of cgi? Yes, but not many and no entire project, like some have claimed, but who cares? Cgi isn't the most important thing in a movie, get over it. Any thought that starts "M-she-U" is sexist. No discussion. No one complained about the sausage fest of phases 1 & 2 by calling it the "M-he-U" and no one has any valid reasons to hate movies about females leads.
The main problem with phase 4 wasn't lack of direction pr build up but an overall lack of quality.
We have got lots of projects and very few of them are actually good.
And the inclusion of mediocre to bad tv shows (except loki imo) has made following the mcu tiring. If phase 4 was just films, most of us wouldn't be so mad at phase 4. I'm a huge Marvel/mcu fan and I genuinely want them to get the quality back of the glory days
Nailed it! You’ve articulated exactly what I’ve been thinking throughout Phase Four.
Interesting perspective. Think he makes good points in terms of expanding and creating new themes, but don’t think he touches on the lack of quality within the new worlds, characters and storylines. More doesn’t always mean better.
This video isn’t ‘Why Phase 4 Is Great’ - it’s an argument specifically that the idea that Phase 4 is unfocused and without direction is wrong.
@@PillarofGarbage Well, it might not be unfocused, but definitely lacks quality. Marvel is a brand you watch because you expect quality material from it, not something that is at best mediocre. Everyone can see that they are building/expanding the world. But how can well over than 50% of content in a new phase lacks quality.
It's like Apple coming up with new series of their devices but more than half of them lack quality in every sphere from hardware to software. You don't buy Apple for bold devices, you buy them for their quality and seamless integration.
People watch Marvel for an experience, they could have taken their time and improved quality, but they choose quantity at the expense of quality.
You can defend Marvel all you want, but you can't deny that quality has dropped immensely, even when compared to Phase 1 and 2.
It's all about what they do with Phases 5 and 6 now. What has been setup for audience reception that can be used later on? What can be purposefully set up to lead into the grand finale? What can they call back to that still thematically works? Phase 4 is absolutely all over the place, but like you said, so were past phases, so now we just better hope that they have competent writers that are able to pull everything together and make everything feel like it was clear and unified.
One of my favorite examples to bring up is Star Wars Rebels. When it first came out, it was the replacement for the recently canceled Clone Wars series that had 3 full Seasons planned out, but due to its budget, Disney was not willing to foot the bill on it and so Rebels was what came about. After three years, the show was starting to feel more and more unified, and then in the fourth year with Season 4, they pulled everything together because it was planned to be the end of the show. Anything that felt a bit off or perhaps wasn't necessarily going anywhere specifically early on was all brought together in Season 4 and especially so with the Finale and it makes rewatching the show so good because then you're able to pick up on the hints and see where ideas that could have potentially gone one way did find their way back into the show, making everything better in the end. There's really only one thing from the Series Premiere, wookiees, that never was followed up on (the wookiees say that if the rebels should ever need them, they will be there to assist), and one thing halfway through Season 1 that was followed up on in a book, but it never needed to be weaved back into the show and it wasn't. Stuff in Season 2 waved off as "filler" became instrumental in the end. Character growth, connections made, details purposefully left behind all wound up coming together and really rounding out that show, and the MCU is no different, the audience just needs to be patient.
That's not to say that in some instances, Marvel is resting on their laurels as Warner keeps fumbling about with DC stuff, or other studios with big tentpole project franchises not quite competing to the same degree of success Marvel has seen, they could absolutely be doing better, but Phase 4 was definitely a testbed, too, to feel around for what the people at Marvel and what the audience wants more of. Now that they have that information, it's time to really get to work and starting to unify things. Resolve the loose ends that are now not going to be going anywhere, or save them for way later, start teasing more and more at the stuff that's more concretely in place, and pull from everything possible that makes sense to blow everyone away like Infinity War and Endgame did. A lot of the complaints were probably more from not knowing what the plan was, and not that it was super clear after Avengers that the whole Infinity Stones thing was going to happen, but once they leaned into it more with the announcement of the Phase 3 slate, it really got the ball rolling. We have a full Phase 5 slate and intentionally missing pieces of a 6, but concrete tentpoles, and a lot of that eased some of the tension people had. Doesn't mean that the Phase 4 criticisms and future criticisms can't still be valid, but it's now a waiting game to see if everything after Endgame will have been worth it in the MCU.
I think it's a lot better than people say or think it is. While I won't deny that there are hiccups and things I don't like about Phase 4, it-for the most part-is amazing. I mean... c'mon, Phase 1 was about setup and then had Avengers. Not nobody, but not a lot of people during that time were asking for an Iron Man movie, or a Thor movie, and it was all setup. Kevin Feige has even said that the pieces are in place for the upcoming phases in Phase 4, we just need to find them. The MCU has not hit "rock-bottom" at all, in fact, it's the very thing we need, and I love that they did this.
Pro tip, never tell your viewers they're wrong. I don't know why your videos keep showing up in my recommendations. I disagree with literally every video that shows up.
I love yourself positivity man
I love all the points you made about the worldbuilding because its something I admittedly never appreciated as much and its hard to argue against.
With regards to it having a direction it does but I cannot however agree with it being actually focused. This is because in every phase has had a focused major development for the Plot A and Plot B of the overarching narrative. Plot A deals with the status quo of the world while Plot B deals with the grander scheme of things beyond earth and they usually meet at the end of every phase. And for this phase it actually has a plot A and plot B. Plot A being the one developed from Black Widow, TFATWS and Black Panther with geopolitical tensions, and plot B which is the most obvious as you've pointed out, the multiverse stories. The reason why its unfocused is we don't know whats the anchor point for both plot A and Plot B. For the Multiverse storyline, loki seems to be the most important development for it but. The other multiverse movies doesnt help connect towards the rules and laws of the multiverse. Its hard to even understand how the multiverse actually works and that makes it hard to be a foundation for Phase 5 and 6. It takes away the focus from Loki and not everyone is a Disney+ subscriber.
But overall I still enjoyed some projects here and there and Im glad you shed light on the positives of this phase.
Here's my take on the movies and shows.
The Good: WandaVision, Loki, Shang-Chi, Spider-Man: No Way Home, Moon Knight, and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
The Okay: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, What If...?, Hawkeye, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, and Ms. Marvel
The Bad: Black Widow, Eternals, Thor: Love and Thunder, and She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
I fully agreed when you said "Phase 4's purpose was not to tell a story." This I think was the biggest criticism from most people.
Here's my two cents: If it's not telling a story, what's the fucking point?
@@TMF979Resurge The individual projects tell their own stories. That's kinda what most media does. And the MCU is telling a bigger story at the same time, just a bit more slowly. And as PoG quite rightly pointed out, the first three phases weren't always telling a consistent story either. You just notice it more now because you're expecting phase 3 storytelling from a new phase 1.
@@bookswithike3256 I'd honestly prefer Phase 1 storytelling, but Disney don't really want that anymore, I notice a clear divide between the Paramount era and the longer Disney era
@@bookswithike3256 My feeling is that Phase 4 movies try to expand its universe (as the PoG pointed out) at a cost of telling a good story. I honestly don't care if the story is for teens (like Ms Marvel), Asian audience (Shang Shi), or a comedy (like Thor) as long as they tell the story well... The problem is each of movie/show is mediocre at best.
@@inazuma3gou I do not agree with "mediocre at best" at all.
So stoked for Wakanda Forever, can't wait for it to hit D+! And speaking of backdoor intros - IRONHEART IS COMING!!!!!!! :)
Iron heart came indeed👏🏾. But I don't know what she is supposed to be.
In a culture where rage directly translates to ad revenue, it's nice to see someone going against the grain. It's easy to say you hate something and make a click bait video to exploit people's natural reaction to negativity. Even if you know most people won't agree with you, the trick makes money. People just don't realize how much they're being manipulated for that sweet sweet ad money..
P4 is a world building thing yes. There have been movies now that sorta require the tv show to explain motives, like Wanda in multiverse of madness. It is a multi-scope thing theyre trying to do as well - ending the main avengers team, following up after Tchalla and his actor died, introduce the new avengers, and some new possible vigilante with the 3rd of Moonknights' selves still being moonknight, (along with all the different realms and dimensions weve seen in almost every project). Not to mention continuing the exploration and history of the TVA, Thunderbolts as well as the big bad for now the p5, 6, 7 - KANG.
In all honestly it seems that the forth season or in this case phase seems to be where the franchise is really seems to have the biggest problems when it comes to writting but I guess we could blame it on trying to get a footing since loosing allmost of the must iconic characters in marvel with eh characters and Boruto's school characters would be difficult plus mistretment of cigiai dipartment and cutting the phase short than it was planned and having questinable writters at best and lack on communication betwen projects
I think the biggest problem is that it's try get too MANY footings. Instead of making a smaller, core cast of well written characters. They're just throwing everything out at once, and they're all stepping on each other's toes.
Both the fans and the creators are more interested in what's NEXT than what's currently here.
Even if phase 5 ends up being the greatest Era of the MCU, the set up for most of it is sloppy at best.
My main criticism lands on the fact that almost every project feels more prepackaged than the last. So while the show pushes into diversity (of story, genre, representation) --which I'm cool with--it somehow feels more homogeneous. Assembly line stories. And even tho I can see the consistency of broader themes, I think at their worst, these shows exist to sell future shows. The Easter egg business is booming...a lot of times at the cost of narrative weight. I just want character-driven stories. I don't care the shoulder I'm looking over or the genre. Just let me invest
Thanks for the video, it was nice to see a different opinion for a change. Though I believe most of phase 4 criticism has to do with the marvel formula for making movies: most of them have same structure and tone, with a never ending barrage of hit-or-miss jokes and despite the directors trying to use their unique style, they all end up feeling samey. Of course there are a few exception (wakanda forever for instance) but it doesn't feel enough to break the repetitivity of the format. As for the critics concerning the connectivity I believe it has more to do with the unclear presentation of the newer concepts. It's not clear what's the difference between alternative timelines (endgame, Loki) alternative universes (Dr. Strange MoM) and alternative dimensions (antman and the wasp) and although having a vague lore helps each movie director making their own choices, it leaves us viewers confused and with the feeling that all properties are disconnected. At the moment we can't understand the repercussions from the events in Loki finale and even the connection between Spiderman no way hom and Dr. Strange MoM it's not well defined.
I just think the MCU has just gotten to big and therefore lacks the focus the original saga had, but I'll still enjoy the best part of it.
In phase 4 the only good and worth watching things(for me) were:
Shanghchi
No way home
Wakanda Forever
Eternals
Moonknight
Loki
Wandavision
FATWS
WereWolf
Rest of them were meeh....
😅
Phase 4 has produced some of my absolute favorite things in all of the mcu and might end up being my favorite so far. Even if I don't love everything (which has happened in every phase), I respect them for experimenting and bringing in different tones, styles, and characters
For the criticism that this phase is directionless, I keep trying to explain the mcu as a pyramid: just like in phase 1, we have to build out before we can build up