How to Overcome Echoism: Healthy Anger
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- 00:00 How to Overcome Echoism: Healthy Anger
1:58 What is Primary Healthy Anger?
6:35 Experience vs Expression of Anger
8:50 How Healthy Anger Empowers Echoists
Are you An Echoist?
Take the test to find out! www.drcraigmalkin.com/#narcis...
Recently, I've been inundated with requests from journalists to discuss "echoism," a term I introduced in my book, Rethinking Narcissism. Articles on the subject are trending, and a new book, Echoism, even devotes itself to understanding the topic in depth. Echoism support groups, therapists, and workshops are springing up, and demand for information appears to be growing. But what does the word mean?
I've compiled my answers to nine of the most frequently asked questions about echoism.
1. What is echoism? Echoism is a trait that my colleagues and I have begun measuring, and like all traits, it exists to a greater or lesser degree in everyone. People who score well above average in echoism qualify as echoists, and their defining characteristic is a fear of seeming narcissistic in any way. Of all the people we measured, echoists were the most “warm-hearted,” but they were also afraid of becoming a burden, felt unsettled by attention, especially praise, and agreed with statements like, “When people ask me my preferences, I’m often at a loss.” Where narcissists are addicted to feeling special, echoists are afraid of it. In the myth of Narcissus, Echo, the nymph who eventually falls madly in love with Narcissus, has been cursed to repeat back the last few words she hears. Like their namesake, echoists definitely struggle to have a voice of their own.
2. Can echoism exist without narcissism? Regardless of how it begins - and there are many childhood causes - echoism, like any trait, persists regardless of whom people spend their time with. Still, echoists are often drawn to narcissists precisely because they’re so afraid of burdening others or seeming “needy” that to have someone who relishes taking up all the room, as narcissists often do, comes as something of a relief; but it's a high price to pay for a respite from their anxieties. When narcissists become abusive, echoists sometimes blame themselves for their mistreatment (“I expect too much"; "I’m being overly sensitive"; "I shouldn't have gone back"; etc.). No one deserves to be abused, whether they stay in a relationship or not - abuse is 100 percent the responsibility of the abuser - but echoists can mire themselves in abusive relationships, because they feel responsible for their mistreatment.
3. Are some people more apt to become extreme echoists? Echoists appear to be born with more emotional sensitivity than most of us - they feel deeply - and when that temperament is exposed to a parent who shames or punishes them for having any needs at all, they’re apt to grow up high in echoism. A client of mine had a narcissistic father who grew enraged whenever people didn’t do exactly what he wanted - a misplaced dish was enough to set him off - and as a result of his lessons (my way or the highway), she wasn’t just afraid to say what she needed or wanted. She didn’t even know what that was. This is typical with extreme echoists - they’re so afraid expressing their needs will cost them love that they lose touch with their own desires.
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For more on echoism, see:
www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl...
blogs.psychcentral.com/knotte...
tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/...
AMAZON: www.amazon.com/dp/0062348116/...
ITUNES/APPLE: books.apple.com/br/book/rethi...
BARNES & NOBLE: www.barnesandnoble.com/noresu...
INDIEBOUND: www.indiebound.org/book/97800...
BOOKS-A-MILLION: www.booksamillion.com/p/Rethi...
HARPERCOLLINS: www.harpercollins.com/product...
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I want to learn so much more about this. I have stuffed and run from my own anger all my life. I have noticed recently in therapy that whenever I do have a rare moment when I can actually feel the anger , afterwards the shame and self hate breaks off of me , like hey there was never any sane reason for me to feel shame when I was the one being abused.
Anger lifts us up out of the guilt and shame mode into a more healthy position I think. It's weird how I can feel so much anger for others abuse but my own I'm really numbed out to it.
so well said. Yes. "Anger lifts us up out of the guilt and shame ..."
@@CraigMalkin You are unto something so powerful here like shooting an arrow and hitting the bullseye. Facing the injustice done and releasing the anger attached to it this has been my missing key to breaking off the lies and reclaiming the truth of my soul that I am good not bad and did not deserve the abuse.
I did that exercise you suggested , seriously that question was brilliant and unlocked some blockage in me. I woke up feeling joy , strong and hopeful knowing I am on my way to healing ! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us .
@@C7774u that's flipping awesome!! Sounds like you have gotten some really good transformation from using this video. Love it! And, yes, you are correct - you did not deserve abuse. No one does. Don't let anyone gaslight you or victim-blame you into believing you did. Keep at it and doing the work - one layer at a time!
My mother would provoke anger and then say, “Are you angry at me, little girl.” Or she would “poke” me with her index finger - “You’re so sensitive.” A bully. This “echoism” is helpful. Thank you.
When I read your book & saw your earlier Vlogs, saw my mother was similar to yours. Always with the migraines. Mine was moody & sulky & unloving & critical.
WE had to worship her trauma from her childhood. She shoveled on the toxic shame. I was the target of the 3 sisters.
Learned how to suppress my feelings & serve her endless needs. Got good at it. Unfortunately I became an "All you can eat buffet" to needy, nasty, & selfish NPD/BPD's who took from me & shredded me for decades after. Moreover I thought it was my JOB to rescue & sooth other toxic people. I had no rights to my needs.
- In last 3 years I have changed at the root. Love your Echoism term. Much better than co dependent.
I'm glad my work resonates for you. Does sound like we had some similar experiences!
I resonate. I endured narcissistic abuse for decades. Then after moving away from them I was effectively groomed by other narcissistic types. I was brutally discarded recently and I'm so angry I was taken advantage of, yet still emotionally attached to someone who treated me with complete contempt.
@@mirandabrunskill7755 I know what you mean and really hope you're not as emotionally attached by now, as it's incredibly freeing!
I found it extremely painful and cried a lot for a while, which was to do with childhood trauma issues as well, then reached the stage of indifference towards the ex.
I can clearly see now that I didn't love him after all, because what he presented wasn't genuine anyway. I'd have to be absolutely desperate to accept that conniving conman back into my life. Lol.
It seems to have happened with family members as well, because I don't feel the strong urge to contact them to help them stop drinking, or whatever, or to get them to understand me any more.
It's beyond sad though, especially in regard to the daughter I relinquished as a baby, who despises me and was sending death threats, then stopped all contact with me. I've accepted her boundary and she might change her mind eventually, but it's her choice. ❤
Super helpful advice about allowing oneself to feel angry for that which is not right, and also the idea that we don't have to say this out loud (to the narcissistic), but we do need to k ow in our hearts we can feel and know and anger as a part of being a healthy human.
Oh my gosh! Thank you, Dr Malkin. That was so so very helpful. I have shamed myself for so many of my feelings. And I’ve been stuck.
This video really resonates. I'm a fairly large guy and I've learned to be small as you stated, for fear of being accused of being abusive, or called a bully. Rarely have I ever defended myself. In fact I prided myself on the fact that I have been able to use my physicality for defense in ways that didn't include physical aggression. Well, the other day someone put their hands on me and I put on a verbal display that was quite clearly angry and set an undeniable boundary. It felt really liberating to allow myself to do that.
This talk’s explanations creates a great sense of relief.
Your work helps so much, thank you for every single word! My NPD mother called me "selfish" all my life, so I turned into the perfect echoist, always terrified that I might look selfish and having no idea how I can express myself without feelings of shame or guilt. A long way to go to the middle of the spectrum so I can't wait :).
I know I'm on the right track after listening to this. I'm acknowledging my own anger & expressing it..but still afraid to do it with some people. ..this is such a help...affirming that I need to stop devaluing what's important to me.
This is the first time hearing about echoism. It explains a lot of what I have been struggling with on my journey to overcome low self-esteem. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I look forward to learning more from you!
At age 49, and dealing with a deteriorating mother with NPD and I'm just unraveling a lot of my childhood. I thought I was over it but this is bringing back some tears. And the reason why this is so important to me is that while growing up I was focused mostly on my mother and had just written off and avoided my younger brother who was also an NPD. He is now what I think a Malignant NPD and has been financially abusing my mother for over a decade. My mom is also bipolar and in the last year she's gotten to be extremely paranoid and having hallucinations. Under this duress, he's been taking money allotted for her caregivers. I had stopped talking to them for about 10 years until my stepfather passed away in 2019 and I stepped in to handle funeral arrangements. This is when I saw to the extent of what was going on and revisiting this all over again. It's been only a year that I've been able to identify and really give their personality disorders a name. And now I have a clearer understanding of how I was impacted as well. Echoism explains a lot of how I tried to avoid attention. Thank you Dr. Malkin.
Wow, thank you!!! This resonated so much. After a lot of „understanding“ in a relationship (and even after it ended) I felt anger again for the first time today. After being disrespected in a serious way by them. I am so grateful for this anger!!! It makes me feel like I exist again?! That I actually care more about my own feelings rather than „understanding why they disrespect me“.
I am so glad I found these youtubes. I am the Echo but learning to find my voice. What I appreciate about your approach, Dr Malkin, is your compassion to help folks with narcissistic tendencies and how to deal with, if possible, these relationships in a healthy way. The science/studies behind your approach gives insight to understanding these types of scenarios. I just regret not learning this sooner but I have today.
Wellcome back Dr. Malkin
Nice to be back!
I was beaten for showing any sign of anger by my mother. She observed the moment of my nostrils… and saw it. Trained to suppress my anger. Thank you 🙏 for this video. ❤
I'm sorry you went through that. Hope you are healing. ❣️
@@healingchase3359 thank you for your compassion. Yes, I am learning to accept my anger as a useful guide in my relationships. The most challenging is accepting anger at people I care about. However, I self observed progress in this process. Dr. M. Videos are very helpful. Best wishes to you.
This topic is so interesting because now I know what environment I was in to cause me to have absolutely no confidence in myself. I am now 71 years old and still trying to understand why both parents would never except any negative feelings that I had. I was unable to share what I was thinking or feeling and therefore, I developed my own surviver skills to keep "peace". Please guide me into more knowledge about this subject and thank you for your explanation. It's a long, sad story, but I am willing to try to repair the damage done. Thanks!
I plan more videos :-)
This goes along with what I learned from Pete Walker's book: Put the anger where it belongs. It helps so much if you can even just do that mentally! Another time I feel myself getting extremely angry is when people are crossing my boundaries and I don't feel like I have control over it. I'll get angry without even realizing why. Figuring that out helps a ton because then I can focus on what my boundaries actually are and how to enforce them. And, of course, then put the anger where it belongs. But by the time I figure all this out, the anger has faded because it's not necessary anymore. Sometimes anger was the only way we could deal with boundaries growing up because nothing else worked. And of course we got in trouble for that because we weren't supposed to have boundaries. Thanks for the video!
"Ask yourself how you would be feeling if you weren't blaming yourself." Wow...sigh. My heart actually ached and felt squeezed when I listened to that question. And by the end of this video, I actually felt really sleepy out of nowhere. A noticeable somatic reaction.
I have some mild echoist tendencies like caretaking, shying away from the spotlight, and struggling to ask for help, but I find I'm a legitimate echoist with covert npd types that trigger my childhood hell- even if they aren't being abusive, and I have gone to great lengths to "understand" and "have compassion for" and "take my own accountability for"... essentially to override the anger I would otherwise feel for times when their unhealthy behavior had me treated poorly in some way. Whenever I have responded with anger- I almost immediately am awash with guilt and the compulsion to make repairs. I've leaned too hard into those otherwise healthy introspective actions- doing so more in avoidance of expressing/feeling my own anger than from an actually healthy place. Damn. It's not easy to find the healthy middle ground, but I'm sure this is a start.
I've come to realize that this is what I'm struggling with. Identifying the problem is the precursor needed for healing to begin. Thankyou for identifying this
This is the most important information i have received in months, thank you .At last i can acknowledge my anger.
Brilliant! So that's what it is! I will mark this day 24.7.21
Omg. I used to fall apart when explaining my ex’s behaviors to a point where nobody believed and I appeared to be what he said: crazy. Now I know why. I would feel angry with him and start to panic over my own anger. I wish people understood this in the family court system. Would have saved myself and my kids a heap of pain. I feel so bad for my kids. How do I help them without telling them what their dad is? They already know but I get in trouble if I speak about it then. Accusations of alienation when he’s the one openly modeling disrespect and entitlement. Nobody sees it but psychologist but they are ignored by lawyers and social workers.
I hope this helps you start to separate the anger from the fear. So important in recovery
wishing you continued healing
I feel similarly, This family court system is screwed up. For my son, I try to let him know what a narcissist is, what the traits are, and what a neurotypical is. What it is to be balanced, and the benefits with friends and society to be able to interact well within it, including examples from his life so he can see. I try to teach him the ways to stand up to it, and try like anything to build his confidence in a well rounded, sound way. Have a ways to go, but do see some results, and makes me joyful when he sees the benefits, and even gives me credit for helping him see it. Sadly sometimes it takes someone going through it to see it. I see it, and you, and your positive steps through it Hang on and keep growing stronger with your internal strength and spark.
Thank you so much! This makes a lot more sense than just "don't blame yourself"
yes!
This is extremely helpful. Gives me clarity to what goes on in my head when I encounter rather larger emotions. When I make mistakes, when I get angry, sad, and etc.
I identify with so much of this and the advice of dealing with the anger is so powerful. Thank you.
You’re so welcome!
Depression is anger turned inward..you are angry at yourself and your inability to control your environment on what's going on around you or happening to you...I learned long ago if your angry...voice your opinion
even if its to yourself in I the mirror or a pillow or the wall..sometimes if you hear whats upsetting you you can come to terms with it..if you keep your anger bottled up and hash it over and over in your mind your only getting a one sided conversation and its not helpful in solving the problem
This is a wonderful exercise, thank you!
Welcome back! We’ve missed you.
More to come!
You look like Kiefer Sutherland. Also, I needed to hear this today. If I wasn't blaming myself? I'd feel like I have a stronger sense of myself, more respect and that temper tantrums would not sway me from being honest about what I believe about myself. Seems like we have to have a path that we can follow, core beliefs that means something to us and be willing to be rightfully angry when we are being subjected to the temper tantrums. :D Thanks, Doctor!
You’re welcome! And re Sutherland-I’ve heard that all my life
Excellent advice! Thank you
Hello Dr. Malkin
I enjoy your podcasts and wonder if you can speak to the issue of having an adult child who is narcissistic--as the other parent was.
Thank you.
Bravo 👏 Thank-you ✨ You have shared very important and powerful information that is very freeing and empowering! ✨
You're so welcome--and thank *you*
Great tools!! Thanks for the video!!
Glad you like them!
Great video, Dr. Malkin! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
My older Brother would be angry, my oldest sister is still narcissistic, my other older sister would shame any anger, my Dad would humiliate and be humiliated, my Mum tried her best but couldn’t protect me and would guilt trip any anger. It’s crazy how I can feel so numbed out of any individuality.
Wishing you courage in healing
My mother would scream at me when I showed I was angry about something , yet a younger brother use to sas, mock & intimidate my mother & she would let him do it to her & this confused the heck out of me!! "WHY"??I was the "scapegoat kid" in the family!! This other brother was a "bully/golden-child" & my father saw him as a "go-getter" in life & his life has been pathetic since!! I have been around so many narcissistic people throughout my life!!
Dr. Malkin Thank you for your book "Rethinking Narcissism" your perspective on this matter really gives me hope.
One question I have is that had a hard time identifying my real feeling behind my angry reaction to unfair and unjust behavior from a narcissist, I just get a very natural and plain angry reaction. Please advise if it is actually other feelings beneath in this case because this is the issue that holds me back from applying empathy prompts technics.
I loooooove you for this ❤️ Thank you ❗
aw... :-) thanks.
Right on for me! Thank you!
So glad!
This was so helpful. My convo with my therapisy about my fear of anger didn't go well. I would like to say i didnt explain it well enough but i might be self blaming ha I'm determined to overcome my fear of feeling healthy anger. Thank you for the tip.
So So good! Thank you!
You're so welcome!
Hey Dr. Craig!!!
Perfect timing...(spooky)
Great work!!!
Thank you!
Can these traits become exacerbated by being on the autism spectrum? I suffered abuse my entire life, but I think I went silent mostly because of symptoms of autism. 2 of my 4 daughters have also been officially diagnosed as ASD. One at the age of 7 and the other at the age of 25 because we couldn't get doctors to test back then when we saw the signs. They were not testing girls in particular.
Excellent video and hope you will be giving us more. I was unfortunately saddled with three narcissists in my family, mother and two brothers, and one in particular, for whom even limited contact is proving to be too toxic, has caused my relatively benign cochlear hydrops to become full-blown Meuniere’s disease. I have been acutely aware that this progression was triggered by the stress of having to suppress my anger during my phone calls with this brother, during which he will find a way to slip in subtle and extraordinarily nasty devaluing comments designed to chip away at my sense of self. Have been wondering and trying to strategize how to deal with him/this so that I do not have any further episodes of debilitating attacks of dizziness and nausea. The last one sent me to a hospital emergency room. Can’t tell you how helpful this video was in helping me unravel how my repressed anger is probably contributing to my physical health. It will help me devise a game plan for any future dealings with this a-hole.
I'm deeply sorry to hear about your experience. I'm so glad that my work could help in some way. Sending support!
Thanks!
So after you can admit to yourself that you are angry for not getting what you need or for getting what you don’t want then you can work on healthy or constructive ways of expressing your anger. Does emotionality count as expressing my anger?
💯
I wonder if an echoist can also be a covert narcissist.
is echoism... like co depentancy?
or an echoist is slave to both the narc and the co dependant?
✌️
Could you speak for an echoist parent who has a narcissistic child , as the other parent is.
thank you so much, from the UK
My husband is so abusive my son hung him self a few weeks ago I found him cut him down performed cpr got a heat beat but he was braindead he was a donor he saved 3 lives and now my husband is using his death to get attention using his death to feel special I'ma so heart broken and I feel guilt and anger please get away from any one with npd
Rebecca, Oh my gosh, that is terrible. I am so sorry that you have gone through that, and are going through it. May you find meaning and purpose to ease the suffering. May you be free from suffering. May you have peace.
I’m sorry for your loss. I hope you find peace and when the pain is sometimes to much to bear remember it was because you loved them and you’d never want to change that ❤
Oh wow, I'm so sorry. You can't even grieve this horrible loss in peace. You deserve the space to do that.
Echoism and Egoism.