Inefficient Diagnostic Techs Better For The Shop?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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So when a tech can be 200 percent efficient for repairs everyone gets a high five but when a tech does the same for troubleshooting it’s not right? That’s gotta change
That is where you charge for what you know between your ears.
I always taught that if a circuit has a relay in it, go to the relay to test. That way you have four circuits you can check at the same place.
After listening to over 2 days worth changing industry podcast and numerous of frm videos i still stand on the same belief when i started mobile in 2019, We need a better business model. This S*** is not sustainable.
@@eka_motors Amen
My scope comes out it's a 2hr minimum diag I don't buy all these tools to charge less.
Same!! ❤
Being efficient is definitely desired and may depend on shops work flow, now what the owner would consider efficient or accept as being efficient is at his/her discretion beings tho it's their shop. But I think at the end of the day all shop owners want vehicles to be fixed properly and a happy customer.
My shop set prices for certain Diag procedures and how many hours it should take similar to repairs have predetermined hours and we do a half hour code scan and full vehicle inspection and then finding what we need to test we charge the hours to administer the tests. I think it's a good compromise so that the efficient tech gets those hours and the inefficient one has enough time to do the job.
If 1 hour of diag is sold, the technician should diagnose the car, up to 1 hour. And then sell additional time. In this example, technician b scanned the codes and then immediately asked for 2 hours of additional diag. This is only fair if you have already come to the point where you know you will have to spend another 2 hours of diag.
Let’s say it’s a misfire code. And you can’t get to the plug, coil, or injector without removing the intake manifolds. In that situation it would be fair to ask for more time. However if you CAN access this complainants, testing should be done up to 1 hour before asking for additional time.
Very interesting analysis. 👍
This is dangerous and I really don't know how it could ever get fixed for me and the other Tech A's. I've seen it a million times
I sure hope tech A is being paid more hourly and that her time is sold to the customer at a higher rate than tech B.
A missed diagnosis should be a come back
Had to listen twice to get the gist of your message.
1. It is imperative that management recognizes each tech’s ability.
2. If you want to stay in business you have to allow the younger or less skilled to look over the shoulder of the good ones and then assess if they are comprehending how the system works and how to diagnose it.
3. Yes on training but you still have to put that into practice. You need someone to assure you you’re going about it right.
I’ve trained countless techs under me about electrical/ electronics on cars. Some got it and some didn’t. Use those that get it for diagnosis.
Don’t condemn those who don’t or put them in a situation to fail.
In the 70’s we could look at a tailpipe puffing black smoke and tell you in 15 seconds you need a carb rebuild (No diag fee) 2 hrs to rebuild.
Now If a F I car is black smoking you need a couple hrs to diag a sensor so you can replace a CTS or MAP sensor in 20 minutes.
Why in 2024 are we still arguing about how to properly charge for diagnosis when fuel injection has been around since late 70’s.
Because most shops are still not charging or pay for Diag.
I put in for diag time and dont always get it.
#2 what's the flat rate double o time code for young tech looking over my shoulder????? how's the older tech gettn payed for that????
@@cookster155 I have no answer for you on that. I can tell by your tone that your paycheck is very important in your life. I mean NO disrespect or criticism at all to you.
I was taken in at 17 by a seasoned mechanic that taught me so much. He absorbed a lot of my screw ups. After 50 years in this business (36 as shop owner) I realize that my legacy is the kids just like me that I can teach are more important than the $$$.
I think you are right that you should be compensated if you’re on flat rate and “tag along” is slowing you down.
But trust me one of these days that kid is gonna be able to get in tight spots you can’t anymore.
It doesn’t sound like you work in the best conditions. For that I’m sorry. My employees were as valuable to me as any paying customer. And I still have customers from 1972 when I started. Been retired 7 yrs. I give those customers all the free advice they ask. Send them to an 18 year employee of mine who started his own shop. I took him in when he was 19. He couldn’t even change oil. Now he is sharp as can be.
Just realize that they can tax every dime you earn. They can’t tax the friendship you have with other techs. Especially the ones you help train.
Once again I’m not trying to be critical of you or your situation. I was a nearly broke young tech once. Scrambling for every dollar I could. Glad to have a man trust me enough to share that knowledge.
Enjoy life. It only happens once. And yes you should get paid to help train. If your employer won’t then show him this post. Del
dude.......im 54, retired at 49 as an industrial mechanic, i worked on Jenbacher j320's mostly, i don't think you've read the play well. My second job outta high school was a jeep dealer that's where i learned flat rate, i worked as a wrench there for 5 or 6 years then i got out, no path forward. I made 100k year company car and gas card all clothes shoes gloves, ALL TOOLS ect were paid buy company........owe yea best heath care money could buy for my whole family, you pay any of your techs that? I was low paid compared to my union brethern in jersey......@@dharley189
@@cookster155 Well I certainly can’t argue with your success.
Really to be a car tech requires a lot of love for cars.
It’s almost an addiction. I worked at Subaru dealer 14 years. Learned about flat rate and being screwed by owner.
When I opened up my own shop I swore to never treat my techs like that. They were paid hourly plus a bonus. Yes on paying health insurance though I’m sure not the best.
Unfortunately my love for fixin cars and helping people overcame the common sense to get out while I could.
For my troubles I got a bad disc in my back and a large hearing loss.
Also plenty of regrets.
I was addressing FRM’s points in his video. Hence “ if you’re going to survive” intro.
Your points about fairly paid plus the benefits is totally valid. I doubt car techs will ever reach that status in life.
Now if you asked me would I do it again then I would honestly say NO if I was aware of the toll on my body vs the pay.
But that is a subject for another video. I would definitely say avoid this job career in 2024.
You need to make the video about your successful career in industrial business vs car repair. Explain the job satisfaction that came with it , the perks and probably the more time you got to spend with your family. I would give you a thumbs up 👍.
So Im punished for being good?! A diag veteran?! Wtf?
What about where I work, when you diag a car they count the diag in the repair time fucking bullshit
The industry is seriously broken at this point. And for the most part it’s the shop owners that are to blame. Greed is hard to fight. The good diag tech took years to get good. That’s why you pay them for their knowledge and skill. Not too mention the money spent on good diag equipment. Also the personal unpaid time it takes. Learning how to use the equipment. IE a scope.
As for the guy who takes apart the timing cover to determine timing. If it’s a belt it doesn’t require a lot of time. But belts are going away. That tech needs too invest the time it takes too lean how to use a scope. The five gas analyzer goes a long way also. Head gasket issue found in 5 minutes or less. Again pay the tech according to his level. Not the time it takes. Rant over. Sorry.
This is why flate rate is such a damned if you do, damned if you don’t, pay structure especially when it comes to diag. Diagnosing should pay hourly for the tech and straight time for the shop. That will help eliminate down time for the tech, reduce favoritism, and push the service writers/managers to do their damn job. There’s too much grey area that flate rate doesn’t cover when it comes to test driving, setup, tear down, waiting three hours for the customer to call back, etc. These dealers/shop owners are going to learn that nobody’s working for free in this industry anymore.
Automotive technician is a big ass joke now a days glad I'm getting out
Me too
What are you getting into
What are you getting into
In my 20 years as a tech and 4 years shop owner I have never worked at a shop that would give diagnostic work to a tech that takes longer it’s always been the faster tech because diagnostic work is largely straight time it makes no business sense to have a guy waste 3 hours straight time when he could have done busy work like 4 wheel brake job, 4 tires, control arms,
alignment in that 3 hours making the shop way more money and have the good diag guy do 3 different diagnostics on 3 cars in that time maybe more so the good diag guy gets punished doing straight time diag.
Shops do need to start charging more for diag. The first hour many problems can be found but you can’t do every test in the book using expensive tools and equipment and only charge one hour I mean u look up spark plug labor and it’s more then the diagnostic fee plus you have to do a compression test naw you gotta charge for that.
If your milking diag time, your a bad tech period. And if the writer doesn’t figure this out, they aren’t good at their job either
Had a tech with supposed ten years experience spend a day and a half on a tail light issue. Charged 4 hours diag. Still couldn’t get. Asked me for help. With a wiring diagram I found the issue in 3.5 minutes(aftermarket tail light wired wrong) I argued with the writer until they dropped the additional diag fee. Customers shouldn’t pay because we were not efficient or properly equipped/experienced
This is something that's been weighing on me lately as a diag guy. I work with a dude that won't touch a scope, sells tear down time on everything, has cars towed away all the time half torn apart. I don't need to tear the heads off a hemi to know it needs a cam, I can find it with a scope well within my standard diag time and I take a hit in the wallet for it vs the "gotta take it apart and look" tech. They have no trouble having me find what he can't though, I'm great at that.
Except technician a can diag 3 cars in 3 hours and sell 10-15 hours of work whereas it takes technician B 9 hours to sell the same work. And I’m guessing tech b is slower at repairing cars too
How you gonna do 200% efficiency @60 yo? and not to mention 100lbs overweight? If it's all about efficiency then no 50 yo tech can make it, let alone 60............ "path forward" heard that here i believe first and it rang true, prolly why i left the dealership in the 90's, no path forward. Prolly why your on YT.......? Path Forward, in general i think the shop needs both tech's and a few in between.
One of the biggest problems with asking for more diagnostic time is a lack of communication about what testing has been performed and why further testing requires an additional charge. From a customer's perspective, it can seem like a shakedown "We can tell you what the problem is for another 2hrs". Digital inspections can help with this if there's a proper write-up of the diagnostic process. Let's say you're diagnosing a misfire complaint, you perform a relative compression test, and find the suspect cylinder is lower than the others. Maybe you're able to pinpoint the issue further with some other non-intrusive testing. The suspect cylinder is under the intake so you ask for additional time to gain access to the cylinder for in-cylinder testing. At this point, the customer now knows what's not causing the issue, and that a potentially expensive mechanical issue is the cause. Even if the customer declines further diagnostics they receive valuable information for their money. Lack of proper documentation is a major issue in this industry.
Just the opposite in aviation, we would not call an A&P Mech who takes longer to come to the same conclusion better for the airline. We would call him a liability because he is costing the airline money. The airline loses money and maintenance Dept loses credibility the longer the aircraft is on the ground.
The shop making more money at the customer's expense because of a weak Tech seems unethical.
Things are a lot different in the automotive repair industry.
Bottom line is if you take care of your customers, they’ll take care of you. Always try to keep the customer in mind
No we are talking about the mechanic here, they aren’t going to work for free whether you want them too or not
So "bEcAuse it TakEs loNger" lets not let him do it lol nah...let me get my hands on it, they can charge more for the repairs not the diag lol
Technician A is done in an hour and on to the next job to make money. 🧐
So its not ok to charge 2-3 hours for a diag because youre an expert with 10 years experience but its ok to charge 4 hours for a brake job that takes 1 hour? Worst take Ive ever heard from you. This is exactly why this industry is shit.
40 years roughly and still strong in building knowledge just like when I began. See this because my shop use to had reputation of if no one could fix it I could. Through diagnostic proficiency and my set hours and parts cannon removal I got burned out of these jobs while other shops charged without fixing and moved on to the gravy work. I am just now moving away from this environment it is not money making because owner seldom returns and can't schedule time efficiently within the week with theses jobs. I do a very indepth analysis and diagnostic because of not knowing the habits or vehicle maintenance it is like taking on a new patient and them not coming back because they think all you do is electrical work or non fixable vehicles
Sounds like you should be working for yourself
At my shop we sell diagnostics Evaluations. Yes I saw your video on Verbiage
WE’VE been VERY SUCCESSFUL using Term Evaluation.
We sell our Evaluations in Dollars NOT TIME. We always talk to our customers in Dollars NOT time. We constantly sell at least 2 hours per I’ll say check engine light and/or electric concerns.
We tell every customer this is Incase we need an additional let’s say $50-$75 to Evaluate customers concern our “Certified Technician” (we always refer to our techs as certified) can keep going and he/she doesn’t have to stop and wait for your approval. Yes we typically end up at 1 hour.
As an owner I’d much rather have an efficient diag tech that can diag in less than an hour. It’s not techs fault Advisor or sometimes advisor can’t sell jobs
What was the underlying symptom with car?
Great video Mike as always.
sounds like car count would trump average RO
I currently have a 10 year old car that lived 80% of its life under trees. Im currently 22hrs in water leaks, finding clogged door drains, body dseam sealer deteriation, and now a brake booster seal at the fire wall. And my manager wants me to be "fair" with the client. That is far.
So they want you to donate your time 😂. Shop can donate their rate as long as they pay the tech
@mph5896 I didn't build it I didn't buy I didn't park it under the tree. I tried to shut the job down when it wasn't the brand new roof drains, sunroof glass, or windshield. I told them flat rate fails on these repairs. At 12 and again at 16 hours I told them this was going to get expensive. My cars don't leak, I don't need a professional, I'm getting home the same way I got here. It ain't my car.
@mph5896 you want the car fixed, pay me. You don't want to pay me, car doesn't get fixed. I only care as much as your willing to pay me to care.
Welcome to my world... Just because I have gray hair, management thinks I'm a vintage car expert. Now I get a steady diet of 40 plus year old barn finds and half baked projects where the customer cannot or will not afford even an hour to evaluate the mess , but we will store it for them for months free of charge🙄
@DragonBlue68 we have a fiew cars we have un-willingly got swindled into storing for years. Then the client out of no were showes up to get it. Why is my battery dead, why is my interior wet, why are my brakes grinding, why are my tires out of balance?