This culture encourages hacks. I saw just as many hourly workers with low quality work attitudes. I would say the pressure of flat rate actually makes the people with integrity better workers. The caveat is that the book times need to be reasonable. If not it almost all goes out the window. Working flat rate made me really try a lot of creative things and I'm so happy to have that experience. I got licensed at an hourly garage. There was good experience there but it comes nowhere close to what I gained flat rate.
Two older techs get paid salary to walk around and help and monitor younger techs. Gives us all infinitely more confidence, and they pass on their wisdom. Such a good business model.
Lots of shops and techs seem to have the attitude that there's never enough time to do the job right the first time, but somehow there's always enough time to do the job over. Far too often, cheap parts are used, parts get installed incorrectly, cars get misdiagnosed, and techs fail to test drive vehicles. Customers may not want to pay higher prices for a thorough quality control inspection after the repairs are made, but they won't like coming back on a tow truck when the cheaper shop makes a mistake and doesn't catch it because they never verified their repair.
Shop to tech: rack the vehicle, diagnose, write recommendation on RO, notify service writer, wait for customer approval, repair oil leak, heat cycle, test drive, verify repair, sign off and hand in RO, clean up tools/mess. Go park vehicle in wash bay. All Data Repair: R&R cylinder head cover gaskets.7 hr, and they wonder why nobody wants to do this anymore 😂
Why would you sell that for .7, when you are doing more than just doing the gaskets? The problem is all of the whining babies who just need to get out of the field instead of trying to taint it for everyone else.
He just said book time is .7. Are you gonna call all data and argue with them everytime you disagree with the book time or are you just gonna do the work? Talking alot of shit while not making any sense
@@sonicelectronic57 I’m self employed now. I quote jobs however I see fit. It was a joke referring to how most flate rate dealers and independent shops expect you to perform all that work and only compensate you for the book time. Hence the reason I got out on my own. If I’m handling the job from start to finish, with my own tools, and providing a warranty I sure as hell ain’t doing for 20% of the door rate.
to be real with you, sometimes the service writera rush repairs so they can close the ticket on a friday so no one cars about QC in my shop. it effects their bonus incentive to close a ticket on a friday etc.
What really is quality control? It'll last "30sec/30FT", "1yr/12K", "3yr/36K", or "It'll last longer than anyone else can make it" Whom of us actually works at a shop that pays/charges for the additional time to do top quality work and QC? I know I don't. I do the right thing anyway, but it adds to the feeling that "I'm paying for the opportunity to work on these cars."
I worked flat rate at several dealerships and was always one of the lower flagging techs but my comeback rate was one of the lowest in the shop. Praise and bonuses always go to those who flag high hours but low comebacks are rarely mentioned when in the same tech meetings, management implores the techs to put out higher quality work. They ask us to do better work but pay us to put out more work.
I Always tell writers I'm going to write this one off as a tax deduction for volunteer work because you're not charging them. Sarcasm hasn't made me any friends 😂
Let me add to this one. In my experience after a test drive I usually try to bring it back in and take a good look at my repair make sure that it’s fixed. But it’s the service writer that calls the customer as the car is being pulled out of the bay for the test drive and by the time I get back to the shop I have the customer greeting me. So if I do get a comeback, rarely, I just throw the service writer under the bus. I didn’t get the time to check my work cause You had the customer waiting.
Dealers don't care or want to pay for QC tech's, they just want to get the car out the door so the service advisers and managers can get there bonus. I see this a lot with oil leak repairs (don't want to leave the the vehicle overnight so the sealant can dry completely), engine replacements, (one small road test and get it out the door). This is on management and service advisers due to not giving us time to do our jobs properly and promising customers unrealistic times to get the job done right.
With the experience of working at a 40 bay flagship dealer, I know first hand how much QC changes a shop. There was 3 people doing that there and it was busy. Busy all the time. Plus they helped us all learn when we overlooked things. A lot of times it ended up getting us more work. After they stopped doing it consistently the CP work dropped off a cliff.
Quality control tech should be in every shop so the high paid master tech is not waisting time driving a car around, than the qc tec can go back to the master tech with issues instead of the customer
I don't have an issue with some one else going over a car that has just been repaired. But I feel the first step needs to begin with good follow up by the tech that did the work. Coolant systems need to be pressure tested after being worked on. Major engine repairs need at least 20 miles put on it for a test drive. A full cool down period amd rechecked again after cooling down.
When i was shop foreman, we did QC. I used to find tools the guys forgot under the hood, so they liked that aspect. Slow down and you go faster, too bad we're paid to rush as fast as we can
As part owner of our family business and as the shop foreman that’s the job I take pride in. We do a major repair cars is driven 10-15 miles at highway speed then it’s brought back in and rechecked. We may keep the car overnight then do the same if it’s a major repair. Here’s the issue Flat Rate techs do not want to spend that time doing that because that’s not in the pay they want the next money maker. As of first of the year we no longer do any kind of commission based pay. Pay that tech what they are worth make them take the time to verify the repairs are made. Customers are pay us top dollar for repairs let’s give them what they paid for.
Excellent way to run a business. I am glad to hear you put service above making money. In the end you will be rewarded. Your customers will be glad to pay what you charge. My brother and I owned a shop 36 years. We had the same philosophy.
@@dharley189 it should never be about how much money your making that’s where this industry has turned for the worse. Charge a fair price do great quality work and you will have return customers. Sure we need to make a profit but when you’re worried more about margins than the quality of work that’s when customers never return. Our father instilled that in us over the years. Don’t try to make it all at once treat the customers right and they will return and also bring you more customers through the years.
I don't consider this preachy or ranty. If you are in auto repair, this is simply good business sense. A shop with a solid QC plan is a shop that deals with very few comebacks. That in turn, will result in higher profits. Instead or tying up a bay with a redo, you can get another paying customer in. Wise words sir!!! 👍👍
"Inspection does not improve the quality, nor guarantee quality. Inspection is too late. The quality, good or bad, is already in the product. As Harold F. Dodge said, “You can not inspect quality into a product.”" -- Dr. W. Edwards Deming. If any of us doesn't know who Dr. Deming is, you should do yourself a tremendous favor and find out. Look him up, and learn about him and his philosophy on management and production. Most of his material was used in manufacturing, but we "manufacture" properly serviced or repaired vehicles. It's not a big stretch. Flat rate by itself doesn't perpetuate risk of not focusing on quality and inspecting one's own work, but flat rate that forces techs to produce tremendous amounts of work to make good money doesn't help. Flat rate almost supports quality if a tech has to redo their work at a reduced rate.
I started at the dealer as a tech trainee in '99 and we had quality control but he was never a tech and was a ridiculous Nit-Picker, to us it was a power trip for him. Especially when it came to noise complaints. It was not up to us if the car was fixed, it was up to him. Remember this is at the Dealer in the Warranty World. More that one Yelling Match w/this Asshole. However Many times after an arguement I would go to the shop Forman/Trainer and MOST of the time he would back Me and if he said it was good it was good. To be clear: As a young tech this made me a better tech. That said 25 Years later Still at the Dealer, I Would NEVER put up with that Today. Especially that particular person performing "Quality Control". And the Dealer Would Never Pay for it. These Corporates call it "Unapplied Labor". By the way the last step in the 6 step troubleshooting process is "Verify Your Repair"
Honestly I think writers have alot to do with it too. Most shops I've worked at when a tech is buttoning up a vehicle, the writer already has the customer on their way. These days it's more important to get a vehicle back to a customer by a specific time, than it is to get it back to the right. But yes I always test drive my cars, and I QC myself well. A result of that is I RARELY get comebacks. Most of the year my FFV score is 100% unless communication from the writers fuck it up.
My shop QC will be the way. Oil leaks is a two day process. Have the master tech be the QC guy and pay $ 100k a year with a 40-hour work week. That tech has no time limit on QC inspection. Same tech can be floater In the shop. The days of rushing cars in out of the shop needs to stop. These vehicles are rolling computer systems.
It's more efficient for hourly techs, too. I want to move on to the next job and make everyone more money instead of driving around in the car, when someone else can just do that.
You need to be held accountable for your own repairs another man should not be having to check over your work because you cannot be trusted. If you cannot be trusted then you are fired because you are taking advantage of customers and ruining the reputation of every place you work and making it harder for every tech who works honestly
Flat rate encourages hack repairs.
I agree with that 💯 these days.
It certainly does encourage hack repairs but but ultimately, the tech has to choose to put out high quality work in spite of all that “encouragement”.
Bingo. And as long as the guy next to you is cutting corners without getting in trouble, why not do it too.
I disagree with that where I work is hourly, and I have seen hack repairs at the end of the day it is the technician doesn’t matter the pay scale.
This culture encourages hacks. I saw just as many hourly workers with low quality work attitudes.
I would say the pressure of flat rate actually makes the people with integrity better workers. The caveat is that the book times need to be reasonable. If not it almost all goes out the window. Working flat rate made me really try a lot of creative things and I'm so happy to have that experience.
I got licensed at an hourly garage. There was good experience there but it comes nowhere close to what I gained flat rate.
Most major dealerships want quantity, not quality. Techs are not compensated for all their time, if they do the work properly.
That's where the QC tech comes in. It's the whole point.
Yes, that is the point. Getting the shop, owner, of which I was one for 36 years, to pay is another story. But it is a really great idea.
@@dharley189 we've got an hourly guy who gets parts when we need them fast, sets monitors, moves cars, road tests. Very valuable.
Two older techs get paid salary to walk around and help and monitor younger techs. Gives us all infinitely more confidence, and they pass on their wisdom. Such a good business model.
Lots of shops and techs seem to have the attitude that there's never enough time to do the job right the first time, but somehow there's always enough time to do the job over. Far too often, cheap parts are used, parts get installed incorrectly, cars get misdiagnosed, and techs fail to test drive vehicles.
Customers may not want to pay higher prices for a thorough quality control inspection after the repairs are made, but they won't like coming back on a tow truck when the cheaper shop makes a mistake and doesn't catch it because they never verified their repair.
Shop to tech: rack the vehicle, diagnose, write recommendation on RO, notify service writer, wait for customer approval, repair oil leak, heat cycle, test drive, verify repair, sign off and hand in RO, clean up tools/mess. Go park vehicle in wash bay. All Data Repair: R&R cylinder head cover gaskets.7 hr, and they wonder why nobody wants to do this anymore 😂
Why would you sell that for .7, when you are doing more than just doing the gaskets? The problem is all of the whining babies who just need to get out of the field instead of trying to taint it for everyone else.
He just said book time is .7. Are you gonna call all data and argue with them everytime you disagree with the book time or are you just gonna do the work? Talking alot of shit while not making any sense
@gohan50321 I don't disagree with the book time and am not doing it for .7. What's the problem here? Babies are crying again.
@@sonicelectronic57 I’m self employed now. I quote jobs however I see fit. It was a joke referring to how most flate rate dealers and independent shops expect you to perform all that work and only compensate you for the book time. Hence the reason I got out on my own. If I’m handling the job from start to finish, with my own tools, and providing a warranty I sure as hell ain’t doing for 20% of the door rate.
to be real with you, sometimes the service writera rush repairs so they can close the ticket on a friday so no one cars about QC in my shop. it effects their bonus incentive to close a ticket on a friday etc.
What really is quality control? It'll last "30sec/30FT", "1yr/12K", "3yr/36K", or "It'll last longer than anyone else can make it" Whom of us actually works at a shop that pays/charges for the additional time to do top quality work and QC? I know I don't. I do the right thing anyway, but it adds to the feeling that "I'm paying for the opportunity to work on these cars."
I worked flat rate at several dealerships and was always one of the lower flagging techs but my comeback rate was one of the lowest in the shop. Praise and bonuses always go to those who flag high hours but low comebacks are rarely mentioned when in the same tech meetings, management implores the techs to put out higher quality work. They ask us to do better work but pay us to put out more work.
I Always tell writers I'm going to write this one off as a tax deduction for volunteer work because you're not charging them.
Sarcasm hasn't made me any friends 😂
Let me add to this one. In my experience after a test drive I usually try to bring it back in and take a good look at my repair make sure that it’s fixed. But it’s the service writer that calls the customer as the car is being pulled out of the bay for the test drive and by the time I get back to the shop I have the customer greeting me. So if I do get a comeback, rarely, I just throw the service writer under the bus. I didn’t get the time to check my work cause You had the customer waiting.
Dealers don't care or want to pay for QC tech's, they just want to get the car out the door so the service advisers and managers can get there bonus. I see this a lot with oil leak repairs (don't want to leave the the vehicle overnight so the sealant can dry completely), engine replacements, (one small road test and get it out the door). This is on management and service advisers due to not giving us time to do our jobs properly and promising customers unrealistic times to get the job done right.
With the experience of working at a 40 bay flagship dealer, I know first hand how much QC changes a shop. There was 3 people doing that there and it was busy. Busy all the time. Plus they helped us all learn when we overlooked things. A lot of times it ended up getting us more work.
After they stopped doing it consistently the CP work dropped off a cliff.
Does book show verification time.????
Ford warranty pays .2 AXQ road test and recheck.. any other shop can pony up .3-1.0 depending on repairs made.
@@fordtechchris great.... wouldn't work for gm because every issue is intermittent. Or they want 30 minutes worth of documentation to collect 0.2
It's hard enough getting enough flag time to cover the repair, if high level QC is gonna be mandated, it needs to be PAID FOR.
Absolutely love this video and I preach this often!! I will Absolutely qc my work multiple times if nobody else is available
Quality control tech should be in every shop so the high paid master tech is not waisting time driving a car around, than the qc tec can go back to the master tech with issues instead of the customer
Heck start the new guys off on QC and oil and brakes work em in
100percent agreed on those coolant repairs!
I don't have an issue with some one else going over a car that has just been repaired. But I feel the first step needs to begin with good follow up by the tech that did the work. Coolant systems need to be pressure tested after being worked on. Major engine repairs need at least 20 miles put on it for a test drive. A full cool down period amd rechecked again after cooling down.
When i was shop foreman, we did QC. I used to find tools the guys forgot under the hood, so they liked that aspect. Slow down and you go faster, too bad we're paid to rush as fast as we can
As part owner of our family business and as the shop foreman that’s the job I take pride in. We do a major repair cars is driven 10-15 miles at highway speed then it’s brought back in and rechecked. We may keep the car overnight then do the same if it’s a major repair. Here’s the issue Flat Rate techs do not want to spend that time doing that because that’s not in the pay they want the next money maker. As of first of the year we no longer do any kind of commission based pay. Pay that tech what they are worth make them take the time to verify the repairs are made. Customers are pay us top dollar for repairs let’s give them what they paid for.
I love it. I had to force this in my shop. I was doing qc for 20 locations. No more commission for me. Straight hourly, at full rate
You must be fun to work for i hope your pay rates are high and a livable wage because removing commissions is bs
Excellent way to run a business. I am glad to hear you put service above making money. In the end you will be rewarded. Your customers will be glad to pay what you charge. My brother and I owned a shop 36 years. We had the same philosophy.
@@isorozco511 we have a well run business and are very blessed. Our employees are paid very well.
@@dharley189 it should never be about how much money your making that’s where this industry has turned for the worse. Charge a fair price do great quality work and you will have return customers. Sure we need to make a profit but when you’re worried more about margins than the quality of work that’s when customers never return. Our father instilled that in us over the years. Don’t try to make it all at once treat the customers right and they will return and also bring you more customers through the years.
I don't consider this preachy or ranty. If you are in auto repair, this is simply good business sense. A shop with a solid QC plan is a shop that deals with very few comebacks. That in turn, will result in higher profits. Instead or tying up a bay with a redo, you can get another paying customer in. Wise words sir!!! 👍👍
"Inspection does not improve the quality, nor guarantee quality. Inspection is too late. The quality, good or bad, is already in the product. As Harold F. Dodge said, “You can not inspect quality into a product.”" -- Dr. W. Edwards Deming.
If any of us doesn't know who Dr. Deming is, you should do yourself a tremendous favor and find out. Look him up, and learn about him and his philosophy on management and production. Most of his material was used in manufacturing, but we "manufacture" properly serviced or repaired vehicles. It's not a big stretch.
Flat rate by itself doesn't perpetuate risk of not focusing on quality and inspecting one's own work, but flat rate that forces techs to produce tremendous amounts of work to make good money doesn't help. Flat rate almost supports quality if a tech has to redo their work at a reduced rate.
I started at the dealer as a tech trainee in '99 and we had quality control but he was never a tech and was a ridiculous Nit-Picker, to us it was a power trip for him. Especially when it came to noise complaints. It was not up to us if the car was fixed, it was up to him. Remember this is at the Dealer in the Warranty World. More that one Yelling Match w/this Asshole. However Many times after an arguement I would go to the shop Forman/Trainer and MOST of the time he would back Me and if he said it was good it was good. To be clear: As a young tech this made me a better tech. That said 25 Years later Still at the Dealer, I Would NEVER put up with that Today. Especially that particular person performing "Quality Control". And the Dealer Would Never Pay for it. These Corporates call it "Unapplied Labor". By the way the last step in the 6 step troubleshooting process is "Verify Your Repair"
Honestly I think writers have alot to do with it too. Most shops I've worked at when a tech is buttoning up a vehicle, the writer already has the customer on their way. These days it's more important to get a vehicle back to a customer by a specific time, than it is to get it back to the right. But yes I always test drive my cars, and I QC myself well. A result of that is I RARELY get comebacks. Most of the year my FFV score is 100% unless communication from the writers fuck it up.
My shop QC will be the way. Oil leaks is a two day process. Have the master tech be the QC guy and pay $ 100k a year with a 40-hour work week. That tech has no time limit on QC inspection. Same tech can be floater In the shop. The days of rushing cars in out of the shop needs to stop. These vehicles are rolling computer systems.
Great video mike. QC is important in any repair. Better catch a problem while the vehicle is still at the shop then to have a come back.
I just had this conversation yesterday, test drive before and after any repair I think it’s just laziness.
Nice video Mike. I ask other tech's to look over my work in case i miss something too.
i always just bleed the air to the manufacturers instructions. not a huge deal but it takes 25 minutes roughly to do it that way.
A good road test has always been part of the repair process. It can save techs a lot of headaches and embarrassment in the long run!
Haste makes waste. If you’re cutting corners just to save a few dollars, you’re doing it wrong.
Totally agree...👨🔧
instead of adding a QC tech, fire the ones who made you need a QC tech.
If you working flat rate I see see the need for some else doing quality control, as you want to get to the next job as quickly as possible.
It's more efficient for hourly techs, too. I want to move on to the next job and make everyone more money instead of driving around in the car, when someone else can just do that.
QC tech = shop foreman ❤
Best customer is a repeat customer 😂
I LOVE how you called it diapers 😂 that's totally true hahahaha! Ugggh
Good topic to discuss.
You need to be held accountable for your own repairs another man should not be having to check over your work because you cannot be trusted. If you cannot be trusted then you are fired because you are taking advantage of customers and ruining the reputation of every place you work and making it harder for every tech who works honestly
Ym