I remember going fairly deep into the Hoodlum controversy lore before this model was discontinued. This blade underwent massive testing before coming to market, but Buck changed the manufacturing process for some reason after these came into production. These blanks were initially cut with water jets, but shortly after Ron Hood passed away Buck switched to laser cutting on them. Every one of these that came after that I saw used on RUclips failed at the notch. Original water jet cut blades from early in production such as Nutnfancy's model withstood tremendous working force as they should have. Initial tests on video showed a test model withstanding 12 strikes to the spine at the notch with no deformation from 6 tons of force from a dropped weight. As for the notch in the design, it was included for maneuvering pots over fires and in cases to extract marrow from bones.
I am almost positive that it was the early Hoodlums that were prone to breaking and were laser cut, then late 2012 buck changed the process (water cutting) and made the knives stronger. The hoodlum that was broken in the video has a 2011 date stamp on the blade
There is a video on RUclips where a hoodlum owner broke his knife and sent it back to buck. Buck sent a new knife back to him with a letter stating they had changed to a new process and that made the knife less prone to breakage than before
@@klatonpowell, I would love to see that video. If I am wrong about the order of manufacturing processes for this blade, I would be glad to know it to look for one to add to my collection. I had given up on finding an early sample.
Something I discovered this year to deal with a bad belt loop sheath: Look up paracord soft shackles. It's a length of line with the loose ends tied in a stopper knot and the other side formed into a cow hitch/lark's head hitch. You run the clean end of the loop through the belt loops on the sheath and your belt. Make the lark's head hitch and place it over the stopper knot and tighten. This lets you make a custom dangler length that you can place in the most comfortable part of your belt, won't come undone on its own, and can be removed and reused endless times.
Love my Hoodlum after many many years. I don't abuse the blade simply because i can't replace it. Tough to compare knives when one costs over double the other. Great vid.
Thank you my friend. I am very glad that whatever the problem mine had, you have not had the same. The crazy thing is I was not abusing it, just chopping stuff as intended. Anyway I heard the early production models had better heat treatment, so the weak point (stress riser) was removed, hopefully yours is one of those! I think it is an awesome design, and wish they would produce a version with no notch. Yeah, it's pretty impossible to find a GSO or a Hoodlum at this point. And definitely not an entirely fair fight dollar to dollar - I had thought that the Bos Heat Treat 5160 steel would hold up against the Peters' Heat Treat 3V and honestly I had hoped to kinda spotlight the quality on the Buck, but I had to report what actually happened for honesty sake. Anyway, I hope your Hoodlum has no weak point, and you get to use and enjoy it for years to come. Cheers bro.
Another thing I've noticed is I've never seen a broken TOPS Tahoma....it has a notch,but the bevel isn't ground all the way up to it, making it thicker at the notch,plus im pretty sure Tops differentially heat treat their blades making the spine a little softer/tougher while keeping the cutting edge hard
Yeah - TOPS does differentially Heat Treat their blades, and yeah - there are no intersecting grind lines - the double notch is in the flat portion of the grind. Or rather, unground/not in the grind, but in the spine of the blade. I did the same sort of work with a TOPS Tahoma a couple of weeks ago with no such problems: ruclips.net/video/Fq5B9xklkQA/видео.html
If it looks familiar, the GSO 10 reminds one of the knife Mrs. Wendy Torrance used when her husband, Jack Torrence, went full-scale bananas in _The Shining_ thriller. When I first saw the movie, I thought, wow, I'd sure hate to go against someone with that knife 🔪 (even if I had an axe!). That was some knife! Now I see it's big brother here and I may have to pick one up...unless, of course, it's $300! “Here's Johnny!!”
Haha! Hopefully you never need to do that - and hopefully you can find a GSO-10 I really really liked it. Hard to find Survive! Knives for a low price if you can find them at all, the one in the film belongs to a viewer! Cheers!
Coconut oil works extremely well for sap and pitch, and stays where you put it. I leave it on for about 30 minutes, wipe it down with a rag, and then use the clean (now oil soaked) side of the rag to get the remainder.
Interesting! Will try it out! If you melted the coconut oil, stirred in a few drops of Lemon Essential oil, and then let it re-harden I bet you'd have the best of both worlds!
Yeah, that would be awesome! In my next tier the GSO 10 wins over the Becker BK9, but only by like 10 grams, which was super surprising to me as well. 3V is amazing stuff and I love it, but it can be surprising what an ingot steel can accomplish with a thoughtful Heat Treat and good Composition.
Kia ora bro! Haha! When you started cutting the gorse I immediately scratched my head and thought, "Gee, that's starting to look suspiciously like NZ". Gorse is the bane of my existence. That and blackberry weed. Two things. One, coincidentally I have a gso 10 as well. Great blade!! Mine's the older type too. I must have weird hands though, mine creates a slight hot spot. Nothing worth complaining about though. It's still my main blade on the farm/homestead. Second thing, yup, I'm one of those guys super hardcore against blades with any sort of notch or cutout, etc. You can't just introduce a stress riser into a blade design and not expect it will fail! Of course it failed! What was the steel? 5160 if I recall. Very tough steel, even SLIGHTLY tougher than 3V. But that stress riser supercedes the toughness of the steel. I'm not surprised. Sorry that happened though! All the best to you! Edited to add: yes you mentioned it's 5160. I posted the above before finishing the rest of the vid.
Wow! It’s awesome to meet a Kiwi who knows his steel and knife design! Thanks bro! Yeah, the GSO didn’t cause me any hotspots, but it was just 90 minutes (with gloves) and everyone has a different hand/swing mechanics. Ever thought of reshaping that spot on the handle? I had a really bad hotspot on my Becker BK7 and made a wood handle and took down the spot that was causing problems, now I never get blisters! Thanks so much for the comment bro, very refreshing!
@@emanuelroth7960 Yeah, or you could just sculpt down your Micarta at the hotspot. It would change the finish though, so you’d need to refinish the rest of the Micarta to get it to match!
@@homeslicesharpening that could be the way to go. Funny enough, my GSO-10 came with a second set of micarta handles. Brown micarta which I have on the knife and orange micarta which I didn't think I'd ever find a use for.
THE buck Hoodlum broke.....but I have the the Tops Hoodlum....and I seen this video so I am going out to test this Knife Right now...and I will post what happens next
That notch on the Buck Hoodlum was a stupid idea. I always known that notch would be it's downfall. I would buy a hoodlum if it didn't have that stupid notch. I got a multitool to move around pots, I don't need my knife to do that. I swear, some knife makers are trying to design a knife that does everything which I think is stupid because I just want my knife to do one thing and be one thing, and that is to cut and to be a light chopper, nothing else. I don't need my knife to wipe my butt as well. The Buck Hoodlum could've been a legendary knife but that one notch completely destroyed it.
Yeah - I loved everything else about the Hoodlum. You know what? With the tip broken off blunt & square I probably invented the ideal "butt-wiping multi-functional fixed blade"... Think about it man, no point to poke you in the bum! Feel free to patent that one if you change your mind 😂 . Thanks for the comment!
Well here we have the Buck Edsel, oh well Ford recovered from the debacle of the Edsel. Why putting a notch in the spine to begin with? Has Buck tested the blade i wonder? Though it had good potential, the notch was not a selling point. The GSO 10 performed great and was ergonomicly well designed. Please let me know how the garantee worked out. Have a great weekend Gabe and family.
I had not heard of the Edsel, but what a fascinating story! According to TOPS (with the Tahoma Field Knife) "The notch on the spine of the blade is used for scoring materials to create a weak point to break, as well as break wire by work hardening it, and pulling pots and similar items out of a fire." The last point makes sense to me, sort of. Though it seems like you could just carve a stick to shape it to pull stuff out of a fire. Why you need to break wire in a survival situation, or why you would not just cut materials with your knife rather than score them is beyond me...
@@homeslicesharpening Take the notch out and give customers a little hook to pull things out off a fire, would be my advice. It is except from the notch, a very attractive knife. Thank you Gabe.
It was donated by a viewer! I'd never be able to get one. My knife is a Becker BK7, and right now all my money goes into sharpening stones and folders, but after this tournament data is gathered I might make some fixed blade purchases! Cheers bro.
If that notch is cut with a laser thats can have a severe negative effect and undermine the structural integrity of that steel, especially if its cut after the heat treat. Laser jets heat up to over 8,000 F° and higher thus can cut through tungsten like nothing which has a melting point of 6100F°. I can't believe they are not taking that into consideration when they are cutting that steel. My guess it severely overheats that area and that whole section of the blade to a point where the steel is extremely brittle. The notch by its self should not have such a drastic effect on the performance of the blade. It was designed right, with the notch being U shaped thus eliminating a weak spot where a crack can form and propagate down the entire blade. U shape transfers the force and load around the bend hence making it very hard to suffer a break in that area. What ever is going on it has nothing to do with the presence of a notch there. Remember knives that have teeth on the spine should have tons of weak spots especially since many are in a V shape and not U shape concentrating all the force into the point of a V notch. But even those blades can take far more abuse and not fail. So something is wrong with their heat treat, manufacturing process or the steel they are using.
exactly....... either they're cutting the notch in after heat treat with a laser and overheating that area, or they're cutting in the notch before heat treat and failing to do any "normalising cycles" before Austenatizing and quenching...... the notch on its own shouldn't cause any stress risers...... it's got to be a bad heat treat method, and they should know better
Yeah, that’s the general consensus I have heard - and I saw a video where a guy on customer service with Buck was told that they were laser-cutting all the blanks. Very interesting!
I would love to test a Skrama. I don't have one at present, nor do I have the budget to get one presently. This chop tournament is done with about 75% donated blades (both the blades in this video are donated). And the next tournament will be 100%. I think that testing the edge retention on Terava's 80CrV2 on extended "normal use" tasks would be fascinating data. To be honest, I also think Joe X's videos are interesting and useful data - especially if you are going to abuse your blades on super hard tasks, and as a comparison point. I personally wouldn't buy a blade just because it did well on Joe's tests (as I will never be that brutal to them) - however I might adjust my opinions about which blade has better HT, edge stability, or toughness based on them. I test one thing, Joe tests another - both are valid data IMO. If one of you is in New Zealand or Australia, send me a Skrama to test it 😁 Cheers guys.
Coincidentally, I am now also working with a machete knife. I sharpen it at an angle of almost 30 Degrees. I am only now at the 800 grid stone, but already have a sharpness of 121 BESS with 7000 leather strop.
@@homeslicesharpening I then drag under a heok of 30 Degrees, 60 degrees in total, a machetie is of course a kind of axe. Finally at the end of the grinding session, I had come out with 150 BESS. This is more common in a grinding session, that there is a better score somewhere than the final result, but usually the 12000 grid stone is the extra sharpness.
So this knife has Buck’s “Forever Warranty” but it’s been discontinued. What will Buck do when you do a warranty claim on this knife now? I have a Buck Hoodlum and even though it was made past 2012 and I’m pretty easy on my gear I’m scared to use it ‘cause if I break it farting around at the campsite I’ll never have one again and thats one less Buck Hoodlum. I don’t understand, I LOVE the design of this knife and I’m pretty sure there are others that do too. Why did Buck stop making them? Why didn’t any other knife companies license the design and make them? Did Karen Hood not want to license/sell the design? Or maybe she couldn’t? Used ones are selling for $300, seems like public interest is out there… 🤷♂️ I swear I either want to try myself or commission a knife maker to make me copies of this knife. I want… 10 of them! 5 just like the original and 5 without that dumb notch… 😡
@@homeslicesharpening Hell yeah! We need to get with a knife maker and make this happen! Trace out a Hoodlum, minus the notch, and make a basic copy of the Hoodlum, down to the sheath and everything. Same everything except the notch and for legal reasons the logos and names. I’d totally buy one for around… $200, eh? 🤷♂️ I wonder if we could pull that Kickstarter off…?!
@@homeslicesharpening I liked 5160 until I saw all those hoodlums snap, lol I know it’s ‘cuz of that notch but damn, I want some kinda steel that would be overkill but not so crazy on price…
I’m curious does buck cover discontinued knives. Does the warranty stop when they end a model? Forever warranty isn’t very good if they just discontinue a problem. Personally I’m not a fan of notches or holes in my blades. These are two knives I’ll never own the survive is out of my price range. The buck don’t think we need to discuss.
I wonder if they removed the HAZ from laser cutting within the notch. But certainly there isn't mitigation of the notch effect, which many people don't realize is possible!
I really enjoy your comments - I must admit this one went over my head. What is HAZ? Are you saying that the notch weakness can be removed or can’t? Thanks bro.
@@homeslicesharpening ah! Sorry to be unclear! HAZ is the Heat Affected Zone, a term applied to things like laser cutting, plasma cutting, and welding - it refers to the area adjacent to the work area, which is affected by the heat of the process. In this case, there's an area that's overheated and quenched right along the cut - which for hardenable steels, can lead to crack initiation. And notch weakening can be reduced somewhat - the issue with notches is the intensification of stress at the rapid decrease in stressed area. Doing things like drilling small holes on each side of the notch can effectively widen the notch, making it virtually less severe, while retaining its shape.
Been waiting 2 and a half years for my GSO-10! Starting to get a little impatient. Never liked notches in the blade. Absolutely a weak point in any knife. Say ‘No!’ To the notch!!
Yeah Leigh - I don't think so. It's full flat ground, so there is not a transition in the grind that meets the notch. The surface is painted, so I cannot see if there originally was a line of the satin finish grind that lines up with the crack.
Thanks man! Yeah it was out of the testing in the sense that it didn't go on to the next tier (the GSO actually made it through 2 more tiers of the tournament, then lost in the finals to my Becker BK7 in 1095 CroVan - what a plot twist!) Cheers bro.
According to TOPS on the Tahoma Field Knife Description: "The notch on the spine of the blade is used for scoring materials to create a weak point to break, as well as break wire by work hardening it, and pulling pots and similar items out of a fire." I don't know why scoring materials would be more advantageous than just breaking things by cutting them with your knife. I don't understand why you would need to break wire if you were out "survival"-ing in the woods, and I am not sure why you could not just carve a stick with said knife into a notched shape in order to pull stuff out of the fire - but there are certainly people around who are way better at outdoors skills than I am, so... maybe I'm wrong and it is useful?
@@LCantwell You know - coming from Washington State, then living in New Zealand... I never even considered that! Haha, what a good point, lol. I just have only done my outdoorsy stuff in 2 of the tree capitals of the world, lol. Great point. Tundra, mountains - above the tree line, desert, it could be useful. Arguably you don't have a fire without sticks, but I suppose you could make a fire from scrub, but not a pot holder... Well at least not easily... I will concede the point to you. I do think you could make an extension of the tang beyond the handle and place a notch there and not sacrifice durability. But then you are grabbing the spine of the blade to lift your pots, which is not TOO safe. I mean, ok. It could be useful. Ok.
The size of the grain in that break is quit big.....it should look smooth in the break like grey cream/not grey sugar.......it was over heated before the quench in my opinion,poor heat treat
@@LCantwell that's what I would assume also. When they do that pre heat treat, they still use high rpm high heat grinding. This induces stress into the steel in that location. During heat treatment that stress will stay unless it's reduced by other means. Those stresses usually cause warping. But can cause some issues like this if it has been reduced with a heat treat step. Another form of stess, is stress riser. Where you have different geometry, during heat treatment its not uniform and will have issues because its not uniform when soaking and then quenching. They cool at different rates basically. It doesn't mean the whole blade of steel is overheated but in that portion for sure. You'd have to take more samples elsewhere to see if the rest was overheated. Also it would be better to see the grain in a lab than visually with the eye for a better analysis.
@@tacticalcenter8658 The last bit doesn't make any sense, In a professional heat treat, the whole blade is heated to a set temperature and then the whole blade is quenched either in warm oil or between alloy plates,or air ect......overheating and growing the grain is gonna happen over the whole knife,not parts of it
That would be interesting! I did test a Tahoma Field Knife - which did not break: ruclips.net/video/Fq5B9xklkQA/видео.html But I get that you are making the comparison based on the fact that Ron Hood designed both Hoodlum and Anaconda- and I think that would be a great comparison.
Yeah - I also don't understand the reasoning. It seems like the trade-off of lack of toughness is not worth it to me. Or if you're gonna do it expose the tang below the handle, and make a notch there. Not in the strike zone and balance point of the blade... Aye aye aye.
Well there you go...heat treat is obviously important...you can see 5160 getting absolutely mistreated in parangs and other big choppers especially in SE Asia...as long as it is tempered down to the right hardness...so definitely Buck screwed this one.
The reason the notch is still there (even though it's a liability) is because of the downright stubbornness of Mrs. Ron Hood, who insists the notch stay. Why? Because her husband had the misfortune to die after he designed the knife. People are breaking the blades left and right. The thing is, Ron would have changed it had he lived; however, he died. The way Mrs. Hood sees it, Ron designed it, Buck built it and that settles it! I have two of them because of initial reviews. But I hate them. And Mrs. Hood, if you're still alive and if you read this, you need to rethink what your husband would have done had he lived. As it is, I have two lemons with your husband's name on them, and it's a shameful legacy.
@@homeslicesharpening i think you'd really like the new gso 5.1. It's not made for chopping as much but can take out small trees and go threw logs, it's an amazing survival knife. I got one and it's insane. It can do all tasks well and is bomb proof. The Magnacut from survive doesn't play.
@@homeslicesharpening ruclips.net/video/0IhbSkzewSc/видео.html Dbk did a test on it and holy shit it went through a frying pan without damaging the edge.
It's a scar. I had an injury that didn't heal properly. If I get a billion subscribers I'll probably get it lasered off, but until then I just can't be bothered to care too much haha. Cheers bro.
Yeah - it would seem that way wouldn’t it? When I made the video I didn’t realize that almost all of them had broken - thought it was more of a one-off. Cheers dude.
@@Smclaugh08 Hey dude, this actually belongs to a viewer. I'm gonna see him at the end of March and hand off the pieces back to him and pick up some more demo blades from him (better deal for me unfortunately). He's gonna test Buck's "Forever Warranty" if it's successful, or if it falls through, I'll update via video. Probably will be mid-April. Cheers. PS if your Hoodlum is in one piece you might want to sell it and buy something un-notched and without stress-risers built into the heat treatment. Worth a lot in one piece - not worth as much in 2. Just a thought.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
I remember going fairly deep into the Hoodlum controversy lore before this model was discontinued. This blade underwent massive testing before coming to market, but Buck changed the manufacturing process for some reason after these came into production. These blanks were initially cut with water jets, but shortly after Ron Hood passed away Buck switched to laser cutting on them. Every one of these that came after that I saw used on RUclips failed at the notch. Original water jet cut blades from early in production such as Nutnfancy's model withstood tremendous working force as they should have. Initial tests on video showed a test model withstanding 12 strikes to the spine at the notch with no deformation from 6 tons of force from a dropped weight. As for the notch in the design, it was included for maneuvering pots over fires and in cases to extract marrow from bones.
Ah, very informative! Thanks! I should have read your commend first - I will pin it to the top so everyone can see it. Thanks Tyler!
I am almost positive that it was the early Hoodlums that were prone to breaking and were laser cut, then late 2012 buck changed the process (water cutting) and made the knives stronger. The hoodlum that was broken in the video has a 2011 date stamp on the blade
There is a video on RUclips where a hoodlum owner broke his knife and sent it back to buck. Buck sent a new knife back to him with a letter stating they had changed to a new process and that made the knife less prone to breakage than before
@@klatonpowell, I would love to see that video. If I am wrong about the order of manufacturing processes for this blade, I would be glad to know it to look for one to add to my collection. I had given up on finding an early sample.
Something I discovered this year to deal with a bad belt loop sheath: Look up paracord soft shackles. It's a length of line with the loose ends tied in a stopper knot and the other side formed into a cow hitch/lark's head hitch. You run the clean end of the loop through the belt loops on the sheath and your belt. Make the lark's head hitch and place it over the stopper knot and tighten. This lets you make a custom dangler length that you can place in the most comfortable part of your belt, won't come undone on its own, and can be removed and reused endless times.
AMAZING - I will definitely look into this!
Love my Hoodlum after many many years. I don't abuse the blade simply because i can't replace it. Tough to compare knives when one costs over double the other. Great vid.
Thank you my friend. I am very glad that whatever the problem mine had, you have not had the same. The crazy thing is I was not abusing it, just chopping stuff as intended.
Anyway I heard the early production models had better heat treatment, so the weak point (stress riser) was removed, hopefully yours is one of those! I think it is an awesome design, and wish they would produce a version with no notch.
Yeah, it's pretty impossible to find a GSO or a Hoodlum at this point.
And definitely not an entirely fair fight dollar to dollar - I had thought that the Bos Heat Treat 5160 steel would hold up against the Peters' Heat Treat 3V and honestly I had hoped to kinda spotlight the quality on the Buck, but I had to report what actually happened for honesty sake.
Anyway, I hope your Hoodlum has no weak point, and you get to use and enjoy it for years to come. Cheers bro.
Another thing I've noticed is I've never seen a broken TOPS Tahoma....it has a notch,but the bevel isn't ground all the way up to it, making it thicker at the notch,plus im pretty sure Tops differentially heat treat their blades making the spine a little softer/tougher while keeping the cutting edge hard
Yeah - TOPS does differentially Heat Treat their blades, and yeah - there are no intersecting grind lines - the double notch is in the flat portion of the grind. Or rather, unground/not in the grind, but in the spine of the blade.
I did the same sort of work with a TOPS Tahoma a couple of weeks ago with no such problems:
ruclips.net/video/Fq5B9xklkQA/видео.html
If it looks familiar, the GSO 10 reminds one of the knife Mrs. Wendy Torrance used when her husband, Jack Torrence, went full-scale bananas in _The Shining_ thriller.
When I first saw the movie, I thought, wow, I'd sure hate to go against someone with that knife 🔪 (even if I had an axe!). That was some knife! Now I see it's big brother here and I may have to pick one up...unless, of course, it's $300!
“Here's Johnny!!”
Haha! Hopefully you never need to do that - and hopefully you can find a GSO-10 I really really liked it. Hard to find Survive! Knives for a low price if you can find them at all, the one in the film belongs to a viewer!
Cheers!
Coconut oil works extremely well for sap and pitch, and stays where you put it. I leave it on for about 30 minutes, wipe it down with a rag, and then use the clean (now oil soaked) side of the rag to get the remainder.
Interesting! Will try it out! If you melted the coconut oil, stirred in a few drops of Lemon Essential oil, and then let it re-harden I bet you'd have the best of both worlds!
Another hidden gem is the Cold Steel Trailmaster in San Mai III. In my testing, its kept up the with trailmaster in 3V...which reallt surprised me.
Yeah, that would be awesome! In my next tier the GSO 10 wins over the Becker BK9, but only by like 10 grams, which was super surprising to me as well. 3V is amazing stuff and I love it, but it can be surprising what an ingot steel can accomplish with a thoughtful Heat Treat and good Composition.
I can't wait to hear the customer service outcome!
We shall wait with baited breath.
Kia ora bro! Haha!
When you started cutting the gorse I immediately scratched my head and thought, "Gee, that's starting to look suspiciously like NZ".
Gorse is the bane of my existence. That and blackberry weed.
Two things. One, coincidentally I have a gso 10 as well. Great blade!! Mine's the older type too. I must have weird hands though, mine creates a slight hot spot. Nothing worth complaining about though. It's still my main blade on the farm/homestead.
Second thing, yup, I'm one of those guys super hardcore against blades with any sort of notch or cutout, etc. You can't just introduce a stress riser into a blade design and not expect it will fail! Of course it failed! What was the steel? 5160 if I recall. Very tough steel, even SLIGHTLY tougher than 3V. But that stress riser supercedes the toughness of the steel. I'm not surprised. Sorry that happened though!
All the best to you!
Edited to add: yes you mentioned it's 5160. I posted the above before finishing the rest of the vid.
Wow! It’s awesome to meet a Kiwi who knows his steel and knife design! Thanks bro!
Yeah, the GSO didn’t cause me any hotspots, but it was just 90 minutes (with gloves) and everyone has a different hand/swing mechanics. Ever thought of reshaping that spot on the handle?
I had a really bad hotspot on my Becker BK7 and made a wood handle and took down the spot that was causing problems, now I never get blisters!
Thanks so much for the comment bro, very refreshing!
Also, yes, I’m now going to avoid notches, and yes, Gorse is the bane of my existence too!
@@homeslicesharpening thanks!
Good idea with making new wood handles for the gso. That might be a good option.
@@emanuelroth7960 Yeah, or you could just sculpt down your Micarta at the hotspot. It would change the finish though, so you’d need to refinish the rest of the Micarta to get it to match!
@@homeslicesharpening that could be the way to go. Funny enough, my GSO-10 came with a second set of micarta handles. Brown micarta which I have on the knife and orange micarta which I didn't think I'd ever find a use for.
THE buck Hoodlum broke.....but I have the the Tops Hoodlum....and I seen this video so I am going out to test this Knife Right now...and I will post what happens next
Ooooh, do let me know how this turns out.
That notch on the Buck Hoodlum was a stupid idea. I always known that notch would be it's downfall. I would buy a hoodlum if it didn't have that stupid notch. I got a multitool to move around pots, I don't need my knife to do that. I swear, some knife makers are trying to design a knife that does everything which I think is stupid because I just want my knife to do one thing and be one thing, and that is to cut and to be a light chopper, nothing else. I don't need my knife to wipe my butt as well. The Buck Hoodlum could've been a legendary knife but that one notch completely destroyed it.
Yeah - I loved everything else about the Hoodlum. You know what? With the tip broken off blunt & square I probably invented the ideal "butt-wiping multi-functional fixed blade"... Think about it man, no point to poke you in the bum!
Feel free to patent that one if you change your mind 😂 . Thanks for the comment!
Well here we have the Buck Edsel, oh well Ford recovered from the debacle of the Edsel. Why putting a notch in the spine to begin with? Has Buck tested the blade i wonder? Though it had good potential, the notch was not a selling point. The GSO 10 performed great and was ergonomicly well designed. Please let me know how the garantee worked out. Have a great weekend Gabe and family.
I had not heard of the Edsel, but what a fascinating story! According to TOPS (with the Tahoma Field Knife) "The notch on the spine of the blade is used for scoring materials to create a weak point to break, as well as break wire by work hardening it, and pulling pots and similar items out of a fire."
The last point makes sense to me, sort of. Though it seems like you could just carve a stick to shape it to pull stuff out of a fire. Why you need to break wire in a survival situation, or why you would not just cut materials with your knife rather than score them is beyond me...
@@homeslicesharpening Take the notch out and give customers a little hook to pull things out off a fire, would be my advice. It is except from the notch, a very attractive knife. Thank you Gabe.
@@jeroenvoss6231 I agree!
Yup, that looks about right! I’d hate to ask where you managed to get a Survive knife!?
It was donated by a viewer! I'd never be able to get one. My knife is a Becker BK7, and right now all my money goes into sharpening stones and folders, but after this tournament data is gathered I might make some fixed blade purchases!
Cheers bro.
If that notch is cut with a laser thats can have a severe negative effect and undermine the structural integrity of that steel, especially if its cut after the heat treat. Laser jets heat up to over 8,000 F° and higher thus can cut through tungsten like nothing which has a melting point of 6100F°. I can't believe they are not taking that into consideration when they are cutting that steel. My guess it severely overheats that area and that whole section of the blade to a point where the steel is extremely brittle. The notch by its self should not have such a drastic effect on the performance of the blade. It was designed right, with the notch being U shaped thus eliminating a weak spot where a crack can form and propagate down the entire blade. U shape transfers the force and load around the bend hence making it very hard to suffer a break in that area. What ever is going on it has nothing to do with the presence of a notch there. Remember knives that have teeth on the spine should have tons of weak spots especially since many are in a V shape and not U shape concentrating all the force into the point of a V notch. But even those blades can take far more abuse and not fail. So something is wrong with their heat treat, manufacturing process or the steel they are using.
exactly....... either they're cutting the notch in after heat treat with a laser and overheating that area, or they're cutting in the notch before heat treat and failing to do any "normalising cycles" before Austenatizing and quenching...... the notch on its own shouldn't cause any stress risers...... it's got to be a bad heat treat method, and they should know better
Yeah, that’s the general consensus I have heard - and I saw a video where a guy on customer service with Buck was told that they were laser-cutting all the blanks.
Very interesting!
have you considered testing the Terävä Skrama? I have seen some really positive reviews on it, might be interesting
Yes would be nice!
Joe X did a test on it
@@tacticalcenter8658 he doesn’t test anything. He deliberately sets out to break 100% of everything
@@powers1776reset yes, correct. He tests them until destruction. Its data that you can infur information from.
I would love to test a Skrama. I don't have one at present, nor do I have the budget to get one presently. This chop tournament is done with about 75% donated blades (both the blades in this video are donated). And the next tournament will be 100%. I think that testing the edge retention on Terava's 80CrV2 on extended "normal use" tasks would be fascinating data.
To be honest, I also think Joe X's videos are interesting and useful data - especially if you are going to abuse your blades on super hard tasks, and as a comparison point.
I personally wouldn't buy a blade just because it did well on Joe's tests (as I will never be that brutal to them) - however I might adjust my opinions about which blade has better HT, edge stability, or toughness based on them. I test one thing, Joe tests another - both are valid data IMO.
If one of you is in New Zealand or Australia, send me a Skrama to test it 😁 Cheers guys.
Coincidentally, I am now also working with a machete knife. I sharpen it at an angle of almost 30 Degrees. I am only now at the 800 grid stone, but already have a sharpness of 121 BESS with 7000 leather strop.
Nice!!! Do you do 30 degrees per side or 30 inclusive?
@@homeslicesharpening
I then drag under a heok of 30 Degrees, 60 degrees in total, a machetie is of course a kind of axe. Finally at the end of the grinding session, I had come out with 150 BESS. This is more common in a grinding session, that there is a better score somewhere than the final result, but usually the 12000 grid stone is the extra sharpness.
@@computeronzin Nice.
So this knife has Buck’s “Forever Warranty” but it’s been discontinued. What will Buck do when you do a warranty claim on this knife now? I have a Buck Hoodlum and even though it was made past 2012 and I’m pretty easy on my gear I’m scared to use it ‘cause if I break it farting around at the campsite I’ll never have one again and thats one less Buck Hoodlum.
I don’t understand, I LOVE the design of this knife and I’m pretty sure there are others that do too. Why did Buck stop making them? Why didn’t any other knife companies license the design and make them? Did Karen Hood not want to license/sell the design? Or maybe she couldn’t? Used ones are selling for $300, seems like public interest is out there… 🤷♂️
I swear I either want to try myself or commission a knife maker to make me copies of this knife. I want… 10 of them! 5 just like the original and 5 without that dumb notch… 😡
I would LOVE to have one without the notch!!! Seriously!
@@homeslicesharpening Hell yeah! We need to get with a knife maker and make this happen! Trace out a Hoodlum, minus the notch, and make a basic copy of the Hoodlum, down to the sheath and everything. Same everything except the notch and for legal reasons the logos and names. I’d totally buy one for around… $200, eh? 🤷♂️ I wonder if we could pull that Kickstarter off…?!
@@frankthespank That would be awesome - what steel would you want to put in it? Still 5160? Maybe S7 or 80CrV2.
@@homeslicesharpening I liked 5160 until I saw all those hoodlums snap, lol I know it’s ‘cuz of that notch but damn, I want some kinda steel that would be overkill but not so crazy on price…
I’m curious does buck cover discontinued knives. Does the warranty stop when they end a model? Forever warranty isn’t very good if they just discontinue a problem.
Personally I’m not a fan of notches or holes in my blades.
These are two knives I’ll never own the survive is out of my price range. The buck don’t think we need to discuss.
I'm not sure - my viewer who sent it in is going to try to claim warranty. We'll see what they say!
I wonder if they removed the HAZ from laser cutting within the notch. But certainly there isn't mitigation of the notch effect, which many people don't realize is possible!
I really enjoy your comments - I must admit this one went over my head. What is HAZ? Are you saying that the notch weakness can be removed or can’t?
Thanks bro.
@@homeslicesharpening ah! Sorry to be unclear! HAZ is the Heat Affected Zone, a term applied to things like laser cutting, plasma cutting, and welding - it refers to the area adjacent to the work area, which is affected by the heat of the process. In this case, there's an area that's overheated and quenched right along the cut - which for hardenable steels, can lead to crack initiation. And notch weakening can be reduced somewhat - the issue with notches is the intensification of stress at the rapid decrease in stressed area. Doing things like drilling small holes on each side of the notch can effectively widen the notch, making it virtually less severe, while retaining its shape.
@@knickly Ah, VERY interesting! Yeah, I heard that they laser cut these blades, and I doubt that the effect was mitigated! Thanks for the education!
Been waiting 2 and a half years for my GSO-10! Starting to get a little impatient. Never liked notches in the blade. Absolutely a weak point in any knife. Say ‘No!’ To the notch!!
I hope you get yours soon. I am a little sad to have to send this GSO back to its owner - I love this thing!
I hope you love yours!
Always break at the notch
Apparently!!!
Id love to know if there are any bevel grind lines going up into the notch? causing a stress riser/place for a break to start
Yeah Leigh - I don't think so. It's full flat ground, so there is not a transition in the grind that meets the notch. The surface is painted, so I cannot see if there originally was a line of the satin finish grind that lines up with the crack.
Great videos but at this point when the knife broke it should be out of the testing it's a complete failure
Thanks man! Yeah it was out of the testing in the sense that it didn't go on to the next tier (the GSO actually made it through 2 more tiers of the tournament, then lost in the finals to my Becker BK7 in 1095 CroVan - what a plot twist!)
Cheers bro.
So, what exactly is the alleged reason for the notch, anyway?
I'd assume it's for hooking onto the wire handle of a pot..... saves making a hook stick just to grab a hot pot out of the fire
According to TOPS on the Tahoma Field Knife Description: "The notch on the spine of the blade is used for scoring materials to create a weak point to break, as well as break wire by work hardening it, and pulling pots and similar items out of a fire."
I don't know why scoring materials would be more advantageous than just breaking things by cutting them with your knife. I don't understand why you would need to break wire if you were out "survival"-ing in the woods, and I am not sure why you could not just carve a stick with said knife into a notched shape in order to pull stuff out of the fire - but there are certainly people around who are way better at outdoors skills than I am, so... maybe I'm wrong and it is useful?
@@homeslicesharpening I guess depending where you are, there isn't always a stick available, scrubby land ect.
@@LCantwell You know - coming from Washington State, then living in New Zealand... I never even considered that!
Haha, what a good point, lol. I just have only done my outdoorsy stuff in 2 of the tree capitals of the world, lol. Great point.
Tundra, mountains - above the tree line, desert, it could be useful. Arguably you don't have a fire without sticks, but I suppose you could make a fire from scrub, but not a pot holder... Well at least not easily...
I will concede the point to you.
I do think you could make an extension of the tang beyond the handle and place a notch there and not sacrifice durability. But then you are grabbing the spine of the blade to lift your pots, which is not TOO safe. I mean, ok. It could be useful. Ok.
The size of the grain in that break is quit big.....it should look smooth in the break like grey cream/not grey sugar.......it was over heated before the quench in my opinion,poor heat treat
Do they notch it before or after heat treatment?
@@tacticalcenter8658 Most likely before while the steel is still reasonably soft....but I dont know
@@LCantwell that's what I would assume also. When they do that pre heat treat, they still use high rpm high heat grinding. This induces stress into the steel in that location. During heat treatment that stress will stay unless it's reduced by other means. Those stresses usually cause warping. But can cause some issues like this if it has been reduced with a heat treat step.
Another form of stess, is stress riser. Where you have different geometry, during heat treatment its not uniform and will have issues because its not uniform when soaking and then quenching. They cool at different rates basically.
It doesn't mean the whole blade of steel is overheated but in that portion for sure. You'd have to take more samples elsewhere to see if the rest was overheated. Also it would be better to see the grain in a lab than visually with the eye for a better analysis.
@@tacticalcenter8658 The last bit doesn't make any sense, In a professional heat treat, the whole blade is heated to a set temperature and then the whole blade is quenched either in warm oil or between alloy plates,or air ect......overheating and growing the grain is gonna happen over the whole knife,not parts of it
@@LCantwell read knife steel news article titled: How Stress Risers Lead to Broken Blades
8670m is the best no doubt
I have really been enjoying trying 80CrV2 lately - have not tried 8670m yet.
TOPS ANACONDA would be a better test :)
That would be interesting! I did test a Tahoma Field Knife - which did not break:
ruclips.net/video/Fq5B9xklkQA/видео.html
But I get that you are making the comparison based on the fact that Ron Hood designed both Hoodlum and Anaconda- and I think that would be a great comparison.
A notch in the blade? I mean, seriously? Did an engineer even glance at this design before it went into production? 🤔
Most mass manufactures just dont care that much.
Yeah - I also don't understand the reasoning. It seems like the trade-off of lack of toughness is not worth it to me. Or if you're gonna do it expose the tang below the handle, and make a notch there. Not in the strike zone and balance point of the blade... Aye aye aye.
Well there you go...heat treat is obviously important...you can see 5160 getting absolutely mistreated in parangs and other big choppers especially in SE Asia...as long as it is tempered down to the right hardness...so definitely Buck screwed this one.
It does seem that some aspect of manufacturing definitely went awry...
The reason the notch is still there (even though it's a liability) is because of the downright stubbornness of Mrs. Ron Hood, who insists the notch stay. Why? Because her husband had the misfortune to die after he designed the knife. People are breaking the blades left and right. The thing is, Ron would have changed it had he lived; however, he died. The way Mrs. Hood sees it, Ron designed it, Buck built it and that settles it!
I have two of them because of initial reviews. But I hate them. And Mrs. Hood, if you're still alive and if you read this, you need to rethink what your husband would have done had he lived. As it is, I have two lemons with your husband's name on them, and it's a shameful legacy.
It's such a cool design otherwise - I'd love to see it made with the sturdiness it deserves.
Sleepy sleepy music again 😴
Haha, sorry - it's kinda my favorite 😁 at least you got a 15 minute nap right 🤣
The Gso 8 to 12 supposed to be like a machete made for hard woods.
I believe it! That thing threw chunks rather than chips!
@@homeslicesharpening i think you'd really like the new gso 5.1. It's not made for chopping as much but can take out small trees and go threw logs, it's an amazing survival knife. I got one and it's insane. It can do all tasks well and is bomb proof. The Magnacut from survive doesn't play.
@@sirsir9665 I'd love to check one out! that would be amazing!
@@homeslicesharpening ruclips.net/video/0IhbSkzewSc/видео.html
Dbk did a test on it and holy shit it went through a frying pan without damaging the edge.
@@sirsir9665 wow!
whats up with that thing on your head,,,,😉
It's a scar. I had an injury that didn't heal properly. If I get a billion subscribers I'll probably get it lasered off, but until then I just can't be bothered to care too much haha. Cheers bro.
No, the Buck Hoodlum is not a good survival knife. It broke. End of discussion.
Yeah - it would seem that way wouldn’t it? When I made the video I didn’t realize that almost all of them had broken - thought it was more of a one-off.
Cheers dude.
I own that hoodlum im pissed now
Yeah, I'm sorry dude. To be honest, it was one of the blades I was most excited to test - I was really bummed.
@@homeslicesharpening if your gonna see
If buck replaces It or does anything for you make a video about it im curious
@@Smclaugh08 Hey dude, this actually belongs to a viewer. I'm gonna see him at the end of March and hand off the pieces back to him and pick up some more demo blades from him (better deal for me unfortunately).
He's gonna test Buck's "Forever Warranty" if it's successful, or if it falls through, I'll update via video. Probably will be mid-April.
Cheers.
PS if your Hoodlum is in one piece you might want to sell it and buy something un-notched and without stress-risers built into the heat treatment. Worth a lot in one piece - not worth as much in 2. Just a thought.