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AC/DC Power for Your Tortoises (209)
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- Although I mainly use pushbuttons and accessory decoders to control my Tortoise switch machines I do have a couple of control panels with AC power and toggle switches. This obviously is a much simpler and cheaper methods for Tortoise control and will work on DC as well as DCC powered layouts. So let's take a look at just how I do this.
Parts List
All Electronics part numbers shown (www.allelectronics.com)
Clip leads #MTL-10
Diodes #1N4001
SPDT switch #MTS-4]
Red LED #LED-1
Green LED #LED-2
For a power supply just use the AC contacts on an old power pack.
Thank you, you simplify something that normally I over think and frustrated over.
Very good video Larry. I love the way you simplify everything. Easy Peasy.
Thank you Larry, that looks a very straight forward way of setting up your Tortoise Lead Motors.
Yes, and it doesn’t require an accessory decoder and pushbutton/toggle interface like the Switch8. As I will show in an upcoming video the Cobalt iP Digitals are even easier since they have everything you need already built in.
Very interesting video Larry. I would prefer to power the LEDs through the auxiliary contacts on the Tortoise so that they show it has actually moved. Of course the Tortoise is very reliable and is only likely to jam if something is blocking the switch.
Thanks Larry, Enjoyed it. 🐾🚂 KY.
Great video Larry, again you make easy to wire these switch machines , I am using the Walthers switch machines at the moment but I might need to change to these
If you have already cut the legs….The flat side of LED is negative lead. It’s also the larger part inside the LED
Best explanation I have ever heard, thanks great series.
Dang Larry..you the Man :-) 1000 thanks for all ya do !
Excellent video Larry. Thank you.
Just wanted to update and say that I tried again from scratch and I got it to work, woohoo! This time I didn't use the led, not sure if that had anything to do with it as I tried it with another tortoise switch machine.
Good to hear that. It is always a good idea to start with the simplest combination and then add the more complicated arrangements such as the LEDs. Remember they are diodes and are polarity sensitive so you have to get their orientation correct too.
@TheDCCGuy Thanks for the tip, much appreciated. It's hard to know to sometimes as I suspect some of the electrical components could have been dead on arrival, or maybe even a dodgy wire. It's a long tedious task just trying to work that out as well.
Thanks Larry, I think I will have 2 "blocks" each using 9vdc 1amp wall transformers to avoid voltage drop off. And i now realize that powering LEDs at this low voltage does not require protection by a resister. You have been very helpful, and I will stop bugging you for info. for now.
But maybe you can setup a layout using my ideas...DCC power (waveform) to the rails from an inexpensive or "used" 5 amp command and control system. Then do not use the command and control portion of the base station.Continue with all the wiring systems you have thoroughly explained for DCC, but install BLUNAMI DECODERS and speakers in locos to have a layout in which the command and control components are very easy to understand using the Apple IOS operating system, wireless Bluetooth and the excellent app for iPad and iPhone. You know how much of a game changer this represents for those who are newbies and want to set up a DCC layout.
I just flip the toggle 180 degrees on the panel if the polarity is wrong to the tortoise. Much easier than hooking up test leads to figure it out.
That seems to make it to easy ,lol
I don't think that will work. If all leads are connected then the poles of the switch are set to one side will light the green LED and the other will light the red. If your toggle switch in the panel is set such that "up is green" then rotating the switch 180 degrees in the panel will only change it to "down is green". This may still be incorrect if polarity to Tortoise is reversed and you intend to have "green LED" indicate a certain direction for the points of the turnout to be thrown (in video example, green indicates Tortoise throws to the right; red to the left). You could, on the other hand, reverse the mounting of your switch machine rather than unsoldering to reverse polarity :)
Great video, thank you. Would enjoy seeing a video on how to wire toggles or push buttons and LED’s in conjunction with the Digitrax DS64’s. Right now I switch my turnouts sending a DCC command to the DS64’s but would like to add a control panel in the future.
I use 3 DS64s daisy chained to operate my Monroe Yard ladder. I plan to use a similar arrangement in my staging yard so will do a video on that setup when I get it installed, but not tomorrow.
The electronics store you list in your video description leads to a page indicating the store is permanently closed -- have tried to post this comment multiple times and someone keeps deleting it. Thank you for all the advice, tips and knowledge you share...I am learning a lot, and building my first model train layout ((14'x5' n-scale).
Yes, and I’ve been announcing that they were closing for several months now.
I use DC power supply and DPDT toggle switches with capacitors and diodes to pulse my solenoid switch machines.
Excellent video - Thank you
Excellent video, the way you explain it is clear and very professional. I have learnt a lot.
Great, thank you, very helpful.
Thanks for this instructional video. I’ve used this process on my layout and it works to power seven Tortoise machines. I do have a problem with my control panel when using green and red LED’s to indicate the position of the turnouts. When the toggle switch is selected for reverse the red LED lights and the green LED goes dark, as it should be. However, when the toggle switch is selected for normal the green LED lights and the red LED stays red, although somewhat dimmer. I’ve tested using two green and two red LED’s and they work correctly. Any idea what could be the cause?
Sounds like the leads on the LEDS are not wired correctly.
Not sure if you will see this but had a question. Is the ac part on old dc power packs same as hook up as you just demonstrated on this video? Thanks Robert.
Any AC power supply will work you just have to convert the output to DC which is what the diodes do. The Tortoise instruction sheet provides several wiring options for using either DC or AC power.
Excellent video, I've been looking for it for years and so far it looks very good and simplified, I'm going to put this chapter into practice. I want to see if you have any videos on how to use "The SMAIL™ SLOW MOTION ACTUATOR" in conjunction with the MTH AUI/TIU. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT SO MUCH!!!
Sorry but have not looked at the Smail or the MTH AUI/TIU? Also I have other videos on the channel that show how to install and wire Tortoises, so far you have found 2 of them-enjoy the others.
Great instructional video even for a beginner like me. How many switch machines can you power off of that 1 power pack?
Depends on the amperage but a lot since a Tortoise only pulls about 10 milliamps stalled.
I noticed that you do not have resistors for those LEDs. I am assuming then that the motor and 1.1 amp diodes supply that resistance. It took me a moment to realize that. Thank you for the demonstration. I have a lot of 50's DPDT switches, but will be using each side a SPST, one for the LEDs/power to the Tortoise, and the other a the power to the frog. I will not use the Tortoise switching pads, as I found out that in time (10-12 years) the fingers inside break away or come loose. I know because I am maintaining a 400+ turnout layout powered by Tortoise.
Part of the magic is that the Tortoise switch motors only pull about 10-20 milliamps and that is just what it takes to light an LED so, no resistors required in this case.
Hello can you do a video on how to just hook up a Tortoise using a mono frog juicer? I have one of those connected to my Peco electro frog. But now Im just trying to figure out which hole I connect to the tortoise for power. I know 1 and 8 but how do I make the conection? Do I go the bus or the track? also does 1 and 8 get connected to one source?
Troy, the Tortoise instruction sheet has excellent written guides as well as wiring diagrams for installing, powering, and controlling the switch machine. I also covered this in my book “Wiring Your Model Railroad” available from Kalmbach Books and also on Amazon.
one other question....isn't there a need for a 1K resister for each Led to protect it from burning out?
No, the motor in the Tortoise pulls about 20 milliamps which is what it takes to light the LEDs.
So... I tried this. All the same parts based off the parts list except I used a 12v 2a power supply. The switch machine worked left but not right. I swapped out a switch machine, same result. Swapped out the diodes and the spdt switch, same result. Any advice?
Check your LEDs, it sounds like you didn’t get the polarity correct.
Checked and ok one way but not the other and now my led that was working isn't. ??
The LEDs have to be wired in opposite polarity in order for the circuit to operate correctly. You either don’t have them wired correctly or your power polarity is not right. Go back and look at how I set this up on the video-it worked there and on my layout.
Not sure what I found here but I was wrong on one statement. My power supply is 12v .8a.
Now I hooked up my old tech 3 power command, wired to a/c and the 2 wired work fine. Maybe the .8 Amp on this was to low? The other power supply I tried was 8v 2a. It didn't work for me either.
I think I will run a bus wire off this power pack for the 4 switches it needs to run and see what happens. I look forward to your next videos. Thank you.
I don’t remember whether I mentioned it in the video but this process uses half wave rectification so you don’t get the full power so that may be your issue.
Good morning Larry I find your information on model railroad stuff great. For the Tortoise machine to work the way you have it I think I missed a key point. I think you stated to use a AC 12V output supply as you use in the video. I can cross wire a DPDT for DC output , but wanted to cut down wiring chores and use a single switch as you have. Seems easier that way. I am correct on the AC12v output and not the DC output for the way you wired it? Yes or no would be great, thank you again for the great videos keep um up!
I just found my mistake, AC not DC.
I need to control a train order signal with a tortoise machine. How do I wire it and what type of switch do I use?
I did a chapter on just that project in my book “Wiring Projects for Your Model Railroad” available from Kalmbach books or on Amazon. I used a remote actuator device from Circuitron that is designed for that.
One more question what size wire do you recommend for this wiring job
I typically use 20awg flexible copper.
Larry, Thanks. With this setup I would see having the switches and Leds mounted on my control panel. Also, the AC power source with rectified power both leads going to separate terminal strips at the control panel and wiring as described. To each tortoise I would need to run the "white wire" connected to the diodes and then have a single wire bus to draw the power from the other power wire and from that at each switch connect to the as yet unused power input (1 or 8) on the tortoise. Two questions, is my understanding correct, and will there be an issue with voltage drop due to the length of the bus and white wires going to each tortoise? ? gauge of wire
Depends how long your wires are. However I have done the same thing in one of my yards and some runs there are at 12’ long with about 18ga wires.
I spent an hour copying everything in this video and it did not work, tried a few more times just to make sure and still nothing. Racking my brain trying to work out where I went wrong, but I think I'll try another way somehow.
The main problem folks run into is reversing the polarities of the diodes and/or LEDs. Get one or the other backwards and it won’t work.
@TheDCCGuy I did a double of check of that to make sure. One thing I'm confused about is the ac adaptor. I tried 3 different adaptors. Two of them are acdc and the other has dc written on the back. Is there a difference?
Larry, thanks for a great video. I have an abundant supply of DPDP switches . What changes to the wiring hook up is need to use the DPDT in lieu of the SPDT switches shown in your video?
Great video. It cleared up a lot for me. I used all the parts you suggested but the tortious only works in one direction. If i switch the leads to the machine it goes the other way. Suggestions?
Sounds like a diode or LED is reversed.
Thanks Larry, very timely for me. Have you ever used one of Rapido's Railcrew switch machines?
Not yet but based on what I have read it is a slow motion device that should operate in a similar manner.
Hi Larry, thank for this great explanation, very much appreciated. I'm wondering, are the diodes absolutely necessary? Would it be possible to achieve the same result by placing the LED's at the location of the diodes, so you could omit the diodes all together? Thanks and regards, Paul
Won’t work. Most LEDs like we are talking about are rated at 20mA continuous and 30 mA peak. So if your circuit uses more than that then your LED would go poof. A 1N4001 diode like I think I used in the video is rated at 1 amp so you can do a lot more with it in a circuit before it will go poof.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you very much for the feedback. Indeed, that makes sense. It was just a thought and wanted to check it with you. I'm building a new layout and will be using tortoise switch motors for the first time, your video was very clear! Thanks again! Regards, Paul
Larry, great project and i am looking to follow your instructions. Only question I have is, I can find diffused LEDs, will those work with this, guess they have built in resistors, which I know you said we dont need. I will keep looking for normal LEDs unless the diffused will work, then i will order those. Thoughts?
Diffused will work but get some without resistors for this installation. All Electronics is where I get mine as well as eBay.
Larry, very helpful. I am in the middle of the Switch machine desert right now on a new layout. I’m using method one with dpdt switches and I purchased the circuitron wall adapter. One thing you didn’t talk about was daisy chaining the machines together using your method. I’m no electrician and I hate soldering but how would you connect multiple switch machines? I’m using a bus wire for mine, would that also work? Would you need two diodes for each machine I’m guessing right?
Good question. With the common wire you just daisy chain it. Then you daisy chain the +/- wires from SPDT to SPDT and off you go.
Excellent videos. Would 1 power supply ( AC adapter ) like you are showing, be able to power 20 tortoise machines?
A Tortoise when moving pulls only about 20 milliamps so a 1 amp power supply can power 50 of them driven simultaneously. However when stalled it pulls much less current and since you would probably never throw more than a couple at a time you could probably power a lot more with a 1 amp power supply.
One thing that people should be aware of - the most common form of color blindness is red / green color blindness, where they appear as slightly different shades of grey. And they say about 8% of males of European descent have that. So I would advise against relying purely on the color of the leds to indicate the position of the turnout...
Just buy LEDs of other colors.
I need help. Tried this for days. Can only get machine to go one way. Will not reverse. I’m sure I have the diodes and the leds the right way. Don’t know how I’m not getting this right. Even tried different tortoise machines.
Get out the little cheat sheet that came with the Tortoise. Go to the second page, look at diagrams 3&4-tain’t rocket science.
I had bad connection at spdt switch. It’s not rocket science. Ty
99% of the time it is a bad connectIon.
Larry Great info. Will this circuit work with a Cobalt IP machine? I am building two reverse loops using the Cobalt IP digital machine for auto switching. Would like to have a push button or toggle to change it if need to. Thanks
The instruction sheet that comes with the Cobalt iP Digital shows how to use pushbutton and toggles with them as well as how to light LEDs.
Watched this video a couple times now. would it work to hook up two tortoise machines for a cross over? One spdt switch changes both.
Hello Larry Just finished your AC power Toggles. I have a situation were I have cross overs and double crossovers were I would need to have a toggle or push button to change the tortises at each switch to change together so the train can travel through with throwing one toggle or push switch.
Then just hook up the same wires to those switch machines. A 1 amp power supply can theoretically power up to 50 Tortoises.
Thank you Larry sometimes the easiest solution just doesn’t register with old brains
Will it affect anything if I used longer cable runs for some or all of those connections?
I have some runs that are over 15’ long with no issues.
@TheDCCGuy I thought that maybe a longer cable run might give you a voltage drop because of the smaller gauge cable. Like track feeders
It will but that will just mean the switch machine will run slower. Eventually however, you would reach a point where it won’t have enough voltage to operate in which case you can either use larger wire or reduce the length of the run.
Demonstrate how to wire a 2 leg bi color led in this configuration
Can I cover the connections with heat shrink tubing to minimize electrical shorts
You obviously haven’t been watching many of my videos as I always use heat shrink tubing to protect splices.
@@TheDCCGuy honestly I'm brand new to this hobby just started watching your videos a week ago
Well you’ve got a lot of videos ahead of you, I have over 350 of them.
@@TheDCCGuy well I guess I better get busy watching them then lol
I tried again, purchasing the exact same parts listed in the video and still no result. Is there some hidden detail that is missing in the video?
I have no idea what is happening. It obviously worked in the video, no mirrors, no hidden wires or tricks. I’ll try to watch it again and see if I can seecanything.
First, have you looked at the instruction sheet that comes with Tortoises and shows how to wire this all up? As I said in the video, I used the method shown in the third diagram. If you just wire it up that way it will work, which is all I did in the video.
I'll try again but this time I will solder all the connections instead of using those temporary alligator clips. It's either bad connections , a dead tortoise, a dead diode or led or....
I have read the instructions but it's just too confusing for a beginner ,hence why I am watching RUclips videos for simplified instructions. I guess it's just a case of eliminating errors now
Hi Larry does it matter what led lights I use like a 3mm vs a 5mm
I have used both without issue.
Thank you sir
wow, answered most my questions in under fifteen minutes. What if you want to add a third light for yellow?
That would require more complex wiring and circuitry.
I think I missunderstood. I was thinking the signal lights on the tracks, not the panel. My mistake@@TheDCCGuy
Great videos Larry, very informative and I have learned a lot form you. I have wired my Tortoise machine exactly has you have. Same parts ect. I can only get the machine to throw one way. I have watched this video a dozen times and still can not find what is wrong. Any ideas would be great.
I used one of the 3 methods that Circuitron shows in the instruction sheet that comes with the Tortoise switch machine so take a look at that and maybe the diagram will help you.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry, looks like I am going to use a DPDT and cross wire it.
Then there's no need for extra diodes for each machine, just one set at start of the bus and that's it, or am I incorrect?
Yes, just place the diodes between the AC power supply and the power bus.
@@TheDCCGuy Would this bus (with diodes between AC power and the bus) only be used for powering switch machines or could this bus be used for feeders to other accessories requiring DC power? or am I in the weeds?
I bring your camcra in closer to your work?
that power supply is it ac/dc adaptor? or Ac/AC?
It is half wave DC so not as powerful as full wave rectification.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you. your videos are helping me on my 34x14 set up. i think im in over my head
Couldn't you just connect these to your DCC power bus?
Sure if you use an accessory decoder.
I hooked this up exactly as said and it does not work
As I showed it worked in the video and I my Charlottesville yard panels are wired this way. So I suggest you go back and check your power supply output, the power feed from the diodes to the LEDs, the orientation of the LEDs, and final Tortoise connections. I have found the 95-99% of the time when folks tell me something doesn’t work they eventually find out it was a wiring error.
@TheDCCGuy this might seem like a stupid question but does it have to be connected to the machine to work because I wired it but didn't hookup to switch machine and then checked it with volt meter
Yes, you have to have a load on the circuit for electrons to flow.
@@TheDCCGuy ok that makes sense now. Thanks
👍👍👍👍
Is DC power to the Tortoise not easier to wire than your AC power method?
It basically is DC. I am just using diodes to rectify the AC current and create a DC power bus. If you look at the 3 methods in the Tortoise instructions I consider this the least confusing of the 3.
@@TheDCCGuy Ok. What I have done now is use a DC 12 volt power pack and feed it to the tortoises. I can use the same DC power to attach 9V light bulbs for houses and street lights to a power bus around the layout.
Will one adapter run multiple Tortoise ?
Yes, since a Tortoise uses less than 20 milliamps you can power about 25 with a 1/2 amp power supply, etc.
so the tortoise can take an AC input on one and DC on other?
No, as I said in the video “the diodes convert the AC to half wave rectified DC”.
@@TheDCCGuy but you put diodes on only one wire.
Each wire has a full 16VAC sine wave and the two diodes break it down into a positive side and a negative side of about 8 VDC. The other wire acts as a common to complete the circuit. Magic ain’t it! If you want to know more than that you’ll have to take a class in electronics!
Sorry Larry it doesn't work. It only powers one way. And you failed to mention only an on/on switch will work anyway. A DPDT does.
I’ll be doing another control panel in a couple of weeks add will use this approach again so keep watching.
So that must be where I went wrong. I'm using spdt on/off/on switch using the wiring method from this video and it didn't work. I'll try the on/on version and see if that works. Thanks for the tip.