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Honest Truth About DCC Decoders--Including Sound (220)
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- DCC decoders are the main components that most model railroaders are exposed to when they start using DCC. And there is a confusing array of decoders from which to choose but there isn't a lot of guidance about the various decoders, their options, reliability, and history. So based on my experience working with DCC decoders since 1994 I am finally going to wade in with my personal knowledge and preferences on over a dozen different decoder brands. So get comfortable as this by necessity is a long one, let's get started!
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I appreciate your willingness to state your preferences. Some won’t agree, that’s fine. Smart people listen to a variety of ideas before making a decision.
Don't worry if people get upset Larry. It's their problem not your's. It always amuses me when people get so set in their ways and so worked up about their choices. We're all different and there are many options and it makes the world a better place. I appreciate your videos and I'm thankful that you go to the effort.
Thanks Larry,
I have just moved into the world of DCC, August 2023.
I purchased a Digitrax Zephyr Express and have converted 3 locomotives using Digitrax mobile only decoders with another 17 or so to go.
I am enjoying going through your past videos on DCC.
Thanks again, Peter. (Melbourne,Australia)
Sounds like you’re off to a good start, enjoy!
One thing I think is overlooked is the availability of "on the fly" volume adjustment. I run many of my engines at a large layout and your sound volume needs to be turned up loud enough to be heard in that environment. But when I go back home with that same engine I need to be able to turn the sound back down so I don't "wake the neighbors" when I run these same engines. I do use JMRI and sure you can go to the program track and lower the volume on an engine but being able to do that without JMRI is important to me. I agree with your choices and believe in some cases that the differences are so minimal that a person would be happy no matter if it's Soundtrax, LokSound, or TCS WowSound. So choose wisely and read the manufactures info sheet on the exact decoder you are interested in.
With ESU Loksound decoders you have a sound mute function (which is also in Soundtrax decoders) but ESU decoders also have a sound fade function so when pressed (with an "F" key) the sound will be reduced and you can set up in the decoder just what proportion of the full volume you get eg 50%, 75%, 40%, etc.
Larry, I’m modeling in On30. I discovered BLI’s On30 C-16 locomotives equipped with QSI. I have a small fleet of those now. I even found one non-DCC with sound. What I notice from the locos, released in 2004, is the the QSI sound portion sounds great and strong, but only plays one type of sound at a time. So, the engine is chuffing down the track, you want the whistle to sound, the chuff sound turns off, the whistle sounds and when the whistle stops the chuff sound returns. Same with the bell. What I decided to do was modernize the DCC in these BLI locos. I gut the QSI system, remove one of the two speakers. I replace that with the Tsunami2 Steam decoder and a MegaBass speaker. I keep the dual speaker setup. I use the larger version of the Soundtraxx keep alive. A little Nano Oil on the brass gears and rods. I end up with a excellent running loco. No gear whine at all. Now I get all the advantages of modern DCC with Sound! I recently bought one these C-16s knowing it didn’t run. Got a deal on it. Gutted the QSI system. Installed the Tsunami2. Up and running! I have also sent a Tsunami2 in for repair that I broke. Got it back real quick. I do have emails with George at Soundtraxx. Excellent customer service. I even bought their T-shirt to wear to shows.
Larry thanks for the review, it was long overdo. I’ve been using Soundtraxx for years and find the simplicity in programming and the outstanding tech support plus the quality make them my favorite decoder. I do have some Lok sound equipped locomotives (factory installed) which are good also. My two steam locomotives are TCS. I install keep alives in all my units and find the TCS KA2 as my go to, it fits in just about everything. I wish the manufacturers would all provide a simple place on the board for keep alive installation. A lot of times I will replace the board with a Decoder Buddy when installing a 21 pin decoder as they have the pads for the keep alive on them. I will do my own installations if needed but prefer purchasing with the decoder installed. I’m sure not everyone will agree with our opinions, it’s a hobby have fun…….
I am not a DCC Guy, but I still like to watch these types of videos and it is up to each individual to decided what is best for them. Martin. (Thailand)
I think you did an XLNT job of review being very unbiased. MOST informative
Thanks for sharing your opinions! They make sense to me. We are living in the 'Golden Age' of DCC Sound and things are only getting better and smaller!
Thank you for yet another great video Larry! Haven't been following your channel for too long so working my way through them. Keep up the good work!
I've been using DCC on my HO scale Australian layout for 20 years now with my trusty NCE 5 amp Power Pro command station. I'll probably use that system until it dies! My preferences for DCC sound decoders are similar to yours. I have various steam and diesel decoders in Tsunami and Econami, I've used a few of the UK sound decoders as the whistles are close in sound to Australian ones. I really like Soundtraxx decoders and will no doubt be buying more in the future as needed. In recent years, I've fitted a few steam locos with TCS Wow Sound and am very impressed with those. Definitely buying more of those for any future steam locos. I do have abut half a dozen steam and diesel QSI decoders, only because one Australian manufacturer offers them as a factory fitted sound option for a very reasonable price. These have been reliable and do the job but if any of those decoders died, I'd be going for Soundtraxx or TCS as replacements.
Another benefit to factory-installed decoders is that locomotives with factory-installed decoders also tend to come from the factory already speed-matched, especially A-B sets
Everyone has their favorite decoder, which is just fine. Over the years I've come to prefer either NCE or TCS for non-sound decoders. I also like the TCS Wow Sound and Soundtraxx sound decoders when I install my own. If you can find a unit with factory sound - particularly Soundtraxx - I'll usually buy the factory installed locomotive.
I started with Digitrax in the mid-nineties and STILL have many that are working 25 years later. I have also used their newest sound decoder with a keep alive and I am very happy with that. It is in a RDC and I don't have the programmer to download an actual RDC sound. (There are two RDC's on the Digitrax sound menu.) I have also used Tsunami 2's for Alco's and love the sound. Especially with the sugar cube speaker . I have replaced the Digitrax speaker with the smaller Soundtrax sugar cube and the sound is much better. I am going to purchase an Econami for another Alco. This one is a very old Kato RS3 that runs perfectly. I have four from the late nineties / early 2000's to upgrade. That is my experience for what it is worth. Thanks for the great UTube channel and the really valuable info that you provide. You are the best!
Thanks Robert, enjoy your Alcos-Larry
I model n-scale and think you're spot on. Went with Digitrax because they were so easy to use - almost all but the oldest locos were drop-in. I think N scale is just too small to get the good throaty growl of a modern diesel - they sound too tinny - so i've stayed away from sound - so far. TCS makes a couple interesting selections, like the split-board model for older Atlas RS-3 locos and LifeLike's GP20s. It's very rare, but i have noticed sometimes if the locos aren't used for a while, they forget who they are and won't respond to their address. A quick reprogramming and they're back to normal - the decoder does retain all of the information, including the address.
Larry, thanks for your wisdom and experience on these devices!
Biggest problem with DCC standard is it didnt have a spec for "keeping alive" on dirty track. Keeping the motor running is not really the issue as the loco will coast with flywheels, but if the decoder resets, then especially with sound, it completely ruins the experience. You can now get keep alives (that are more than you really need) but takes more space and hassle.
Only 27 years? Iv'e been at the DCC thing for 36 years starting as a US. Airman stationed in the UK.. Back in 1985!. And full time Model railroading every gauge/scale since 1962, Also a senior VP of a major US model railroad manufacturer and one of the first original founders of N-Trak... It's funny to me how many green horns and young guys spend so much time making videos and money from them and not working on their models, Then they think their some kind of experts!.. What a Joke!.. Larry you do a pretty darn good job, compaired to the cocky ones, I appreicate your passion and you promote and teach with humility! Thank you!..
You must have started with a Lenz system then. The NMRA DCC system is mostly based on Lenz’s but the first US systems weren’t available until 1993.
@@TheDCCGuy you are correct sir..
@crockett11000 you seem pretty cocky yourself!
It must be hard being so much better than anyone else…you must be a pleasure to hang out with….NOT!😊
Who give a f about your damn time in model railroad. Booo booo you ain’t shjt old man.
A good video. I model in HO various countries: US, UK, Germany mostly. I have 128 locos with ESU decoders, 6 locos with Broadway limited Imports decoders, 2 with Marklin/Trix decoders, 2 with MTH decoders, 7 with Hornby decoders and 6 with Sound Traxx (Tsunami) decoders.
I like the ESU ones the best. One thing they have which none of the others do is the Acceleration & Braking Delay Cancel function. I programme my locos with a long acceleration time (1 minute to get to full speed) and long braking time (48 seconds from full speed to stop) to give a realistic response from my locos. If a loco is not slowing down as quickly as I want I can use the Dynamic brake function which halves the braking time (with the Version 5 this can be set to a different length if desired) or if I want to panic stop I can hit the Acceleration & Braking Delay Cancel and the loco stops in about 1 second.
Also with ESU you can bring in your own sounds recorded from wherever and add them using the LokPogrammer.
My one criticism is that they don't have in their sound templates (which come with the LokProgrammer) the 2 and 3 toot/blast of the various US whistles and horns that they have so that you can't put in the moving off signals for forward and reverse. I got around this by recording the short blast whistles and horns and expanding them with sound software and reimporting them back in to the sound templates in the LokProgrammer.
Thanks Larry. This was perfect timing for me. I have some older locos that I want to convert to DCC and have been wondering which decoders I should choose. Excellent video.
Larry, Glad that you are willing to put your choices out there. Very well thought out and presented. Thank you.
You do a great job, balanced and transparent. Well done.
Larry,
You answered so many questions I had on Controller’s. I did find and purchase a Bachman GE 44 ton locomotive DCC ready. I really get confused when they say DCC ready. I assume they mean it doesn’t come with sound but has mobile and sound can be added. I should get it on Friday. I love your channel thanks for all of your time you put into this to help all of us old guys who want to learn and don’t understand or know where to go for help. Thanks so much.
Kevin you need to watch my video #63 on the meaning of DCC ready, etc. A DCC ready model simply means it is designed so you don’t have to make any modifications to install a decoder. That usually means it has a socket for plugging in a decoder but in some older models it simply means the motor is isolated from the frame. In this case I think you got one with a socket. I did an article in the January 2019 issue of Model Railroader showing how I installed a Zimo sound decoder in my 44 tonner, I showed it off in video #20. I think today I would install a Soundtraxx Tsunami which has a more prototypical sound package so give that a listen on their website.
Gosh this was perfect for me because all of the options has kept me away from DCC for over a decade and now that I have little ones I want to build out an N scale layout and rebuild my grandfathers HO layout still around from the 80s thanks for the video
Loved the review. Agree with many of your points. For example, love MRC but not for their decoders. Have decoders running from NCE, Digitrax, TCS. My ranking would be:
Sound: 1) TCS, 2) Soundtraxx, 3) Digitrax. TCS wins because their sound is fantastic, they have custom retrofit kits for most diesels and their Audio assist menu is a great alternative to programming.
For non-sound: 1) Digitrax 2) NCE. To be honest, Digitrax is more readily available and I prefer their simple instruction manual. No complaints on NCE, but their documentation and availability are less.
Thank you for the in-depth information on the various decoders. I found your video to be an excellent learning tool for understanding which decoders are reliable and what brand name's are available on the market today.
Kind regards, Steve
Came back here searching for some solutions for a fried decoder that I've had issues with. I agree with the QSI decoder. I have a locomotive that had one of their decoders in there and I figured just replace it with the same one and I emailed back-and-forth with them for weeks and was never able to get any kind of answer on getting a new decoder so that's definitely interesting the way they run their business.
Larry, I'd hate to see you just disappear. I've been a fan since at least the Switcher (Commodore 64 version) program in Model Railroading magazine. I miss the days of computer code in train magazines. 😞
I agree that Soundtraxx is the top of the line and one of the reasons why I went and became a factory trained installer in 2017. I like the Tsunami2 over the Econami just for the DDE (Digital Dynamic Exhaust) or auto notching based motor Amp stall. Have you used any of Soundtraxx Soundcar to add more sound throughout your train? - Jason
I'd like to add sound decoder to my Dcc ready Walthers Mainline 910-9101 ALCO DL-109 Locomotive New Haven #0708. Would you have any suggestions what to get and how?
This type of review (un-biased) is long over due so many thanks. I would make a quick comment regarding the TCS WOW decoders. The Atlas replacement units have the Keep alive on the board and this is excellent, but the fact that the chip has every type of prime mover means there is a lot of memory space wasted on sounds you will never use. I also found that I can not reprogram the F8 key as sound mute or prime mover start, it seems fixed to "talking programming" which is nuisance as I like to have all my locos using the fame function keys.
For what it's worth my personal preference has always been ESU Loksound, a little more expensive but the motor control is excellent and highly configurable.
All your examples are so cute. As an O-scale 2 railer, I need 2 and 4 amp capacity.. In the smaller scales you have immense selection. 👍
Most companies make decoders specifically for the larger scales as well as the cute ones.
Great overview, Larry. Thanks. As an N scaler, I agree that Digitrax is hard to beat for reliability and ease of instalation, with so many board replacement varieties available. That said, their sounds are...well...they leave something to be desired. ESU has become my favorite sound decoder. They are easy to program IF you buy their lokprogrammer. Not so simple if programming dorect or with JMRI Decpder Pro. I like Soundtraxx, but they are harder to install, especially in N scale.
Yes, sound for N scale is still a challenge but getting better and SoundTraxx has been doing more with drop in decoders.
@@TheDCCGuy Yes, and I know they have some exciting N scale boards in the works.
I prefer TCS for mobile only decoders and Soundtraxx for sound decoders. I model mostly steam and I like the range of formats and sound options and features.
Hi Larry, great and balanced review - good job. I am new to considering sound for my n-scale locomotives and this program was a big help on the options and products that are available.
Sound for N-scale seems to work best when the loco is designed for it in advance or is factory installed. Retrofitting it can be frustrating due to space limitations, especially when it comes to shoehorning in a speaker. Steam locos are easier since the tender offers a great place for the decoder, speaker, and in some cases a keep alive. Good luck with it-Larry
I have the Loksound programmer etc and I have recently, started getting into taking various sounds from other locos and putting them into the chips which are relative, IE brake squeal etc
Hello Larry, thank you for a very thoughtful presentation of decoders.
I like sound technology and it's worth investing into cause it makes it more fun for family entertainment
I'm new to the hobby. Thanks I now understand decoders. Soundtraxx sounds like the way to go!
Absolutely great video. I've been trying to decide on sound decoders for a pair of Stewart GE U25B locomotives. I like the sound of the Loksound decoders but I'm somewhat intimidated by the need to download files and program a lot of stuff to use them. I'm not very computer savvy and was feeling it would be better to get what appeared to be lesser quality but a better "self-contained " product that was easier to use (skip the Loksound, go with Digitrax). After watching this video I now know I have a few other options. Thank you Larry.
Hi Larry, really appreciated you comments. You are quite spoilt for choice in the US especially with ESU having such a collection of sounds freely available. I am in Australia and model UK so don”t have as much choice. I looked hard at options for a while trying to work out which brand to invest in. In the end opted for ESU loksound. They are generally available from somewhere here and now with the programmer I buy the sounds from the producers in UK and load them myself. I find it frustrating to have to pay the same for a loksound decoder which US customers can load sounds into for free but have to pay extra for UK sounds . I don”t mind paying the producer for the sound, it’s paying ESU the same for the decoder without the sound😩
What an excellent Video thank you for sharing all your Experience Larry. I recently bought an Athearn SD 70 M-2 and SD 60E which were with Factory fitted SoundTraxx Tsunami2 Decoders, and agree that that is the best way to buy a Sound Decoder, it’s cheaper and less Hassle. I also have a DC only Kato Canadian National GTW SD 40-2 Nr 5931w/o Dynamic Braking and am trying to sort out a Sound Decoder for that.
Great video Larry ! Loved your review, answered many of my questions. Hope you continue making excellent quality reviews like this one !
Great topic. My findings in N scale: NCE decoders don’t seem to speed match on the fly. They stop and or stutter between increments. Digitrax I can seamlessly make on the fly speed step adjustments. Both brands are very solidly reliable and in expensive. I use NCE dcc
Thanks for the Digitracks and TCS(steam)/Sountraxx(diesel) recommendations.
I really like those Econami decoders. Very easy to use for a non-computer guy. One of the decoders has the default sound of the EMD 567 (GP9) but a quick cv change will get you the turbocharged 645 (GP40). As a B&O and Chessie modeler, this is all I need. They are also inexpensive enough that equipping several engines at one time isn't a deal breaker. I like standardization.
Hi Larry,
For steam decoders with sound. Did you try the DDE function on the Tsunami2? It really brings some needed nuances to the steam chuffs which makes the engine come alive. Perhaps worth (yet another) comparison video.
All the best!
Thanks for the advice as I am turning to DCC soon. Now I have some choices between steam locos & diesel engines.
Thank you for sharing your info on these products and I totally agree with you on the Soundtraxs products. Especially for myself as a person who has been a machinist and manual labor all of my life these work well with my limitations with computers LoL
Larry, thanks for your honest information on which decoders you think are the best options for each application.
Did you know that the 4-4-0 Locomotive at the top of the TCS packaging is an operating locomotive on the Wilmington & Western Railroad, A Scenic railroad owned By a Historic / Preservation Society named The Historic Red Clay Valley Inc. Located near Wilmington Delaware and is all Volunteer operated. At present 98 is out of service undergoing its 1472 FRA inspection that is required after 1472 working days, or 15 years whichever comes first. I am a volunteer Trainman and Assistant Brakeman, but have only worked two trains this year due to the pandemic and new variants.
Barry P. Broyles
Nice vid. I was interested to hear your thoughts on decoders, given your knowledge and experience.
I personally like having various brands running on my N scale layout as there is usually some feature that each of them has that the others lack.
With respect to my older units, I wish Soundtraxx offered drop in replacements for the Bachmann Sound Values. I'd upgrade my steam and diesel locos in a heartbeat.
Love your videos! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and your preferences with us.
Nice video Larry, I kind of figured you were more of a SoundTraxx and TCS guy going by previous videos that I've watched. I just started get into the hobby a few months ago and I decided to go with LokSound since it seems like HO most locomotive manufacturers are including it now like Walthers, Rapido, ScaleTrains, and Atlas (somewhat). I did get an Athearn locomotive with a Tsunami2 and it is a LOT louder than the LokSound decoders I have, but I am going to try to replace it with a LokSound 5 and see what it sounds like.
No apologies needed Larry, YOUR CHOICE! lol
Exellent comparisons I'm old F units a jeep or 2 & Steam, :-)
I think we can all agree that on the MRC steam decoder, the bell was just the janitor in their basement with a wrench banging on a pot
I should not have read this while drinking coffee, spewed all over my lap!
Great roundup. Thanks.
Thanks for the video! Very informative and useful! :-)
For what it's worth, I always buy locomotives that are DCC-equipped (with a few exceptions like bizarre models such as Thomas). So I get whatever decoder is built into the loco. If given a choice of decoder when ordering, I'll choose a well-known "name brand" like Digitrax or LokSound or Tsunami.
Yes, that is the most economical way as it is usually cheaper than buying a decoder and speaker.
Hey Larry thank you for all the great content. What are your thoughts on the MTH sound and DCC decoders???
I have one MTH, and it spends all its time in the box, nuff said?
Thank you for considering the UK market as well as US & Canada. I think you mentioned that you have some UK-outline models, so you may want to keep the company Zimo in mind in the future.
Good video Larry ... enjoyed the history and info ...
I found Soundtrax to have good sound files, but they were very sensitive to any dirty spots on the track. At the time they didn’t have a keen alive. I now use only Lok Sound with keep alive
Hello Larry:
Love your videos. After a fifty year hiatus from running trains, I’m back at it again.
I found the dcc system a bit confusing; especially the hand held units. I ended up going with the railpro system by ring engineering for its simplicity and ease-of-use.
To be fair, I would really appreciate an honest review of the railpro system. It would be interesting to see a fair comparison to dcc.
Kind regards,
Carpediem
In your opening introduction you mentioned many of the decoder manufactures including Zimo
yet you failed mentioned them in your report.
To clarify a point, sound files in the UK are mainly on either on ESU or Zimo sound chip.
If you buy a new sound chip from a UK dealer the sound file will be included in the purchase price.
If however you have a blank sound chip purchased elsewhere or sound chip you wish to have loaded with a new or different sound file on a existing Zimo or ESU is where there will be charge.
Terry. UK
I originally did include Zimo but the video started out at 45 minutes and my goal was less than 30 so I had to cut back a bit. Since I have only done one Zimo installation it ended up on the cutting room floor as they say. I cannot remember where I saw the £20 extra charge for sound projects on Zimo and LokSound in the UK-possibly that was the price I saw if you already have the decoder. When I did the Zimo review the sound project would have cost me extra but the folks ay Zimo provided it at no cost. It seemed to me about half the sound files on their website were free and the rest were about $20/extra. Thanks for letting me know that-Larry
Excellent informative video I enjoyed watching it. Sonundtraxx decoders are my first choice as they have excellent sounds and the cvs are easy to change as the instruction manual is written in plain English so someone new to DCC can understand it.LokSound however their instruction manual is written for engineers!!!
👍😁😁😁😁😁🚂🇬🇧
ESU (who make LokSound) is a German company so the instructions are German translated in to English, that could be some of the problem.
Great review, thanks for doing this. New to the hobby and want go to places!
Hi Larry,
Looking forward to your review of the DR5000 system. Getting back into model railroading/railways after many years I looked at what was new and decided to go with the DigiKeijs system with a Roco wireless controller going forward. I actually have a Hornby Zero 1 & addon unit in the train box in the basement that came with my move from the UK some 30+ years ago. Never been run here (110v VS 220v required). I haven't set up the new system yet so your video will be very interesting for me. I have a number of Zero 1 chipped locos that will need uptodate decoders so again your videos are very helpful.
Best Regards Bob
I talked to a dealer at a train show today and he said nobody is able to find a Lok Programmer for sale - it's like ESU hasn't been able to produce any due to chip shortages. I ordered one from Scale Trains a year ago when they still had some instock. They have been out of stock since almost a year ago. I've read that QSI is basically gone.
Yes, it’s a common problem and many makers are either low on or totally out of a lot of their products. And most of these companies can’t compete with major manufacturers of electronic products for those electrical components that are available. I talked to a maker yesterday who to,d me he designed a product with a microprocessor that originally cost under a dollar, but then with the shortages the price jumped to over $14. So he actually redesigned the product to use a similar device as a work around. Plus he had to commit to purchasing a minimum number over the next year. I’m sure this supply chain issue will eventually sort itself out but in the meantime it’s going t9 be a bumpy ride.
Thanks Larry very cool info.
excelent channel and job , thank
The devil is in the details.
Regarding non-sound decoders, there is a subtle difference in how NCE and Digitrax handle headlight dimming. Digitrax decoders essentially only provide for dimming of the headlight. For road diesels which might be operated on the point in either direction, NCE offers two different function keys that allow dimming of either the headlight or rear light.
I think it is worth noting that DCCConcepts was the second manufacturer to introduce keep-alives, and the first to make them affordable. They continue to set a cutting edge of non-sound decoders, particularly in reducing the size of the decoder, which makes them very appealing for N scale and also for steam locomotives that might need a decoder in the locomotive rather than the tender. I find them economical in the US market even though it costs a bit more for postage.
Finally, I have a single TCS Wow-sound decoder, and it does everything it advertised and quite well. However, WOW-sound decoders have a unique braking function key, which creates a great effect, but is useless if you are consisting with other brands that don't have this feature.
There are probably many other differences, and I think a video examining these would be of value to the community.
Very informative and helpful. Thanks you
I like TCS and they're located locally in my area in Bucks County PA.
I use them for almost all my steam locos, the best selection of whistles and bells available.
Thank you for posting your video where you demonstrate using digitrax dcc and MRC dc on the same tracks with the use of a Double throw toggle switch. It was very helpful but put a video out to display how to wire our peco switch off's for dcc powered unit's and where spacers are needed. Is there a recommended book from model railroading that shows how to wire the original awitch offs so i can do this beforehand of installation
I need a little bit more info on what you are asking for with respect to Peco switches.
I guess I am the odd guy out because I only have Marklin model railroad Locos & cars. It is A.C. analog but I know these are capable of adding sound cards, I don't think they are a popular Train choice except in Europe. These are appealing to me as they are mostly metal and German made.
Wonderful video, thank you for sharing!
Thanks Larry. Great information.
Thanks for an interesting video. I have brass steam locos and was unaware of the TCS sound decoders and will ask my supplier, Bryan at Mountain Subdivision who sells them what he thinks. I really like NCE products and have found them reliable AND excellent support/service.
I buy a lot from Bryan, good dealer.
Wish more people would subscribe to channels like this . The make better ones if they make a little money. I love watching these work shop videos.
And by the way, Larry, MANY THANKS for what I consider to have been a thorough, fair and honest review of the various decoders "out there" ..... now if I could just find a sound decoder for an Athearn EMD "critter" .....
I only have experience with ESU in n scale for modern era locomotives. They are a challenge to install but I enjoy it. After getting there programmer it might be hard to go with another company. One more thing to buy. I did have issues 10 years ago with some of the decoders dying but they replaced them with no problem. I like there sounds and the ability to edit or modify them. My scale trains Norfolk Southern engines have working ditch lights in front and back. I dont know if other companies have that many aux channels.
Thank you for sharing. Very nice review in which I needed.
Great video thank you
1.) Loksound
2.) SoundTraxx
3.) TCS
Never had much luck or joy with Digitrax
Another thing about Sound Trak I don’t like is each decoder is for specific engines
Bob, that is not exactly the way they work. The Econami decoders have six of the most popular different prime movers on them and the steam has light, medium, heavy, and geared loco chuffs along with various whistles, bells, and horns. Tsunami2 decoders are provided for specific locomotive types such as EMD, Alco, GE, etc and have a variety of prime movers , horns, and bells. For example the Alco version has sounds for 9 different prime movers not just one. They offer decoders for Alco, EMD, EMD-2, GE, Baldwin and other diesels. Not quite decoders with sounds for only one loco type.
Very interesting. Thanks!
Strange, but I attended a type of Model Railroad exhibition in California in 1986, to discover a couple of layouts already using DCC then. In my opinion DCC is a commercial disease, as it was invented in the early 1980's by a British Electrical Engineer, who knew absolutely nothing about real railways. So absolutely NO provision was made, for the most important operational fact of real railways which is the "Moving interface" between trains and the various types of Block signalling systems available. Without which it is impossible to get DCC to operate a model railway in a realistic fashion.
EXAMPLE ONE: The semaphore signaled passenger lines "Absolute Block" system. The fundamental rule of "Absolute Block" is that only ONE train is allowed on each "Running Line" within the WHOLE AREA covered by any Block Signalbox. Irrespective of how many signals that box controls, on each running line. Which is the prime operational safety basis of that mechanical signalling system.
EXAMPLE TWO: Track Circuit Block (TCB), used in connection with modern multi-aspect colour light signalling of passenger lines. As its name implies the use of continuous track circuitry is required. So that the signalling knows exactly where every train is. Further this system was designed to superceed Absolute Block, so as to provide many more train paths per hour. So the Track Circuits also ensure that when trains pass signals, the signal is automatically returned to red. Further once the train has completely passed a signal plus a 200metre "overlap", it allows the previous signal to change to yellow.,The one before that, to double yellow, and the one before that to green. So allowing trains to follow each other safely from signal to signal. Unlike the Absolute Block system which could only have ONE train per running line per signalbox area !!!
There are many other types of Block systems not mentioned here such as "Permissive Block", only allowed for freight lines. But the main point is how can DCC allow for ANY of these real life train movement safety systems ? Simply put it CAN'T . In other words DCC locks you into a Toy Train Set mentallity, and costs in the region of 400% more than any of the numerous Analogue methods of wiring layouts, any of which can include the real life Block Signalling method preferred !!!!!
Happy Modelling 😝.
Timely - for me! I have a couple of ESU Next18 decoders to install in Rivet Counter DCC-ready locos, and I'm up for instructions on how to program them for basic DCC functions without using a Lok Sound Programmer. Got some URLs for a help-site for that?
Ok, try videos 125 and 185, and if you are new to DecoderPro then I did a whole series of video 2 years ago on using it. To find a listing of all my videos in numerical order just click on my image below each video listing to go to my channel page then click on Videos.
Can I use a Chromebook for JMRI applications? Thanks
I have no idea, never have used one. If you go to the JMRI website they may provide some information though.
Randy Mayer
Larry, just saw your video on decoder preferences. Very informative. I have a question though. What cv settings did you use on your RS 3 to get that deep growl? I have tsunami 2 decoders and can't seem to get it right. Thanks.
That is specific to the TCS WOWSound Alco sounds on their diesel decoders. I use these in all my RS units since no one else can match it in my opinion.
You’ll need to tweak the 7-band Equalizer, but more importantly have a speaker capable of reproducing the low end frequencies, such as the SoundTraxx mini-cubes. (810154). Then, you can get more of the low end. Check out SoundTraxx RUclips channel for some videos to set up the EQ. Thanks.
Digitrax turned me off from their products when they wouldn't warranty a plug and play decoder that smoked on the program track. Lenz used to whine like a capacitive discharge in slow speed. NCE has the best looking ditch lights with LEDs of any decoder in my opinion. TCS is really my favorite for steam sound and motor control. Loksound is great also except for the early ones that needed the 100ohm speakers and the bell five times louder than the horn. Since then they have really improved and still support older decoders. BLI and QSI are decent. BLI had the Blueline locomotives using your own mobile decoder plugged into their sound decoder. That was a lot of trouble for some but I really liked it for motor control and lighting effect with really good sound for cheap.
What would you recommend for bachmann On30 2-6-0 and 2-80 on a budget?
With or without sound and what kind of socket?
Great video as always. One decoder feature that you did not address, a feature which is popular in Europe and I understand is increasingly of interest in the U.S., is the Railcom Plus technology where you can put a loco on the tracks and its decoder is immediately recognized by the command station and there is 2-way communication. I understand makes the operation of locos, turnouts as and signals much easier. As far as I know, this currently is only available on the ESU-Loksound decoders.
In fact, it would great if you would do a separate video on the Railcom Plus technology.
The problem with RailCom and RailCom Plus is it requires that decoders and the command station as well as boosters support the bidirectional communication. Many US companies have not gone down that road and apparently some that have included it in their decoders are not fully compatible and it creates problems. The NMRA has included it in their standards and RPs for DCC but until a bunch of manufacturers get on board with it I don’t expect to see it in a lot of US equipment any faster than LCC..
Nice video like and subscribed from Czech Republic 🙂👍👍👍
Larry, I appreciate and value your decoder opinions. I was wondering if you have the same (or any) opinions for N scale decoders. Thanks for all the great videos.
I haven’t dabbled in N scale for a long time, but my impression is that sound decoder options are limited at this time although more companies are making drop in versions including SoundTraxx. As I said in the video several companies including Digitrax and TCS offer drop in mobile only decoders for N scale. Sorry I can’t say more than that.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry.
I have had most of my loco's converted to digital but the dealer I have said unless you buy the locomotive with sound it's almost impossible to synchronise the sounds
I have been very impressed with the ability of most current production decoders to sync sounds based on motor speed. Most also offer the ability to use a physical contact to sync sound with wheel rotations.
It depends on the brand of the decoder. I use mostly ESU LokSound decoders and they have a couple of CV's that you use to get the steam chuffs right. One is for the chuffs in the first speed step (CV 57) and the other CV (CV 58) is for the rate of increase in the speed of the chuffs as you move up through the speed steps.
Not the greatest sound, but for budget, I like XL Systems N scale decoders.. sold by the engineer who created them for MRC. He's raised the prices a little, but you can still get a sound decoder for a Kato SD70Ace, for example, for $55. I added another couple to my Amtrak P42's for only $44 each (with sound).
I personally like when guys are honest if a product is sh*** or a guy says he has had trouble with a product that the company took care of and fix solved the issue should be told.
Sadly, I have to agree about QSI, I tried for around 2yrs to get their much vaunted K27 card for my Gauge 1 loco. it was promises, promises, promises. After more than 2yrs I secured one. It screwed up my locomotive, the supplier tried to resolve it but to no avail. I gave up and fitted a Massoth XLS. The puzzle is, how do QSI survive? :-0
I'm really wondering about the quality and robustness of the decoders. I managed to destroy an MTH decoder by running 3 engines in a consist and 1 loosing track power (dirty rails). I had to send the engine in since they use a proprietary decoder with feedback for the speed control and that was very costly. On the other hand the Loksound decoders claim to be overload protected.
I didn’t mention them since I have minimal experience with them and thought they had gone out of business earlier this year. However I just read that Scale Trains bought their HO operation but can’t find much on that. Their website is still up but doesn’t provide any real info on their current status. As an MTH model owner do you know what is going on with them? At any rate I think that if I owned any of their locos and had a DCC layout, I’d gut them and install a current production DCC decoder. The one loco I tested was a disappointment to me as far as the DCC implementation.
@@TheDCCGuy I have quite a few MTH engines, they were dying a long and painful death, with very few items being available at the end. MTH had a software update for their diesel engines, but you needed one of their proprietary boosters in order to program them, and it was a PITA to actually program them successfully. I think different companies bought different parts of the company, depending on the scale (H0, 0, "King"). You would not want to rip out one of their decoders just for fun and replace it with a standard ESU or whatever decoder. They have a PCB in them with the decoder plugged in (not standard) and you would have to connect in the order of 20-30 wires. You would also loose the ability to use their "cruise control" feature, which keeps the engine at constant speed according to you throttle setting, uphill, downhill, short train, long train, you name it. I think they have an optical sensor attached to the motor (photo transistor or the like) to measure the speed and adjust the motor voltage.
I model in HO and have seven MTH locos. Over the years I have replaced the MTH decoders with LokSound decoders in five of them (I think one of them came without a decoder and was just DCC ready). I am planning to replace the decoder in another MTH loco, a UP Challenger because I am not happy with it. When it gets a break in the current supply and the power is reconnected (usually when I push the loco on to a better piece of track) it takes a few seconds before it starts again and then it runs in DC mode only so I have to shut it down and restart it. Also when running at speed the steam chuff sounds more like a diesel or a machine gun!
So replacing MTH decoders can be done but you have to get rid of both decoders in the loco and wire it up virtually from scratch. In some ways that is not as bad as it sounds as MTH do not use the NMRA colour codes for their wiring so you can put that right as you go and their accessories use the Common Negative system instead of the Common Positive system that is the NMRA standard.
As for the "Cruise control" feature, I thought that was common on all DCC decoders. Certainly all my ESU decoders have it. - Dennis
Hi Larry,
I have a dc layout that I want to convert to dcc. Almost all my n gauge steam engines are are minitrix so need hard wiring a dcc decoder. I like the look of the NCE powercab but I don't know what decoder to use. I would like to add a sound module at some point too. Have you any idea's what to go for here in the UK for a limited budget, I don't want the cheapest and have to swap it out in the future,but can't afford to go over the top also.
Thank You
Chris
From what I have heard stay away from Hornby decoders. You might want to see what DCC Concepts has that will fit and also I think that the ones offered by Rails of Sheffield are made for them by DCC Concepts. Zimo and Loksound offer good but top of the price sound options and there are a number of their dealers in the UK that offer custom sound projects for UK locos. And I use the SoundTraxx Economi UK steam and diesel sound decoders for all my locos. You should be able to find some videos on RUclips showing how to convert your locos to DCC.
@@TheDCCGuy can all of these work with the powercab and is it a good controller to start with?
Yes
Great! Thank you!
You didn't mention the need for a physical programmer except the ESU programmer. Also Zima was mentioned in the intro and then no more. As I am a N-scaler I didn't want to invest in different programmers so I ended up with ESU for almost all my engines.
Inhave only used 1 Zimo decoder so it really would not have been fair for me to go there, but I was not impressed. From what I have seen Zimo and ESU decoders are comparably priced so you probably did OK. Also things differ greatly between the North American market and European. Here we have access to dozens of LokSound projects whereas the selection for Zimo is not all that great and in,any cases requires and added fee. With LokSound they are free and can be sued on any of their decoders. There are other complications.