The tree of life was less of a danger and more of an exit for Adam and Eve, should they not want to continue with what they already have from God. Also know that God never said that it would kill them immediately. The tree of life was a backpack with leavers equipment in the fruit so that they could live on their own because God new that it was wrong to force them to submit to this environment; God never made happy animals in a zoo, he made man with a free will and those things will always be different. And so when Adam bit from the fruit he was cursed with everything he needed to live alone an he and eve inherited that 'leavers suitcase'.
And now we see lol, many dont like when i say this but i think it was all quite necessary because now we can see god for how great just and true he really is
@@rlineback2 yea you have that backwards because now we see god wanted us as slaves and to stay dumb and he punished those who gained knowledge he was mad when we became aware he only wanted obedience and servitude
@@nintwindo5402 When Adam chose the deviational path, he was fallen from the standard of Goodness with God, before that when he didn't chose, I'm not sure exactly what it was like, but I think he was free and didn't know what evil was like, UNTIL he knew it.
@@modestasz2613 I read my bible every day and you are right but we choose to accept or reject him, I never said it came from man you misunderstood what I said, some people hate God and that is their choice, but I freely chose to love him
Really? Try loving someone willingly, I bet you can't. Love is something that you do unconciously, you can't just love someone out of your choice. Or even better, try hating someone you love willingly. Again, impossible. You have zero control over your feelings, absolutely zero.
Very good question, and the answer is simple....! God is not a dictator God has given us a freewill the ability to choose good or evil, one of God’s greatest attributes is that God will never punish anyone for something he hasn’t warned you about, so here we see that Adam was told well on time that if he does eat from the tree he will surely die.! God can never force anyone to do something, yes that includes your salvation, God will never make that choice for anyone, he has provided the means to get saved through Christ Jesus alone, now it’s entirely up to one to accept Jesus as lord and saviour...! FREEWILL!!
So why even make evil an option through the tree? Is God going to give us this same option in the new heaven? By the definition of God wants imagers not robots, how are we to expect this not to happen again in heaven?
Isn't it peculiar that the whole concept of good and evil, right and wrong, is something that was established by none other than God himself? Yet, when we humans, the very beings he created, stumble and choose the wrong path, we're the ones who bear the brunt of it. Doesn't that strike you as odd or even a touch unfair? And I won't even get started on the whole free will debate. With all the scientific discoveries suggesting we're living in a holographic universe, controlled by a mind outside of time and space, it really makes you question if free will is just an illusion.
Very simple. You cannot have free will without a choice. It could have been anything. The Bible speaks of a tree. It could have been anything else. The point is you are not completely free without your self will. You are not a robot. God said to choose and make righteous decisions. And yes he will help guide you along the way so you don’t self destruct
Most of us spiritually eat from the apple everyday, we even see it manifest into the physical on our apple phones. Please pray for me in Yeshua's name, to give me the strength to overcome sin. Thank you, Amen.
If your phone causes you to sin Should we not cast it away! 🤔🤔🤔. Sin is death. Sin is so closely linked In to people that a disconnection of no devices electronic seems like death. Do hard things and maybe we can learn from Ahmish folks. 🙄looking for beams in my eye now. 😳🤕😵😵. Sorry just bringing relevance to the discussion.
@@TashiDelek1 Temptation isn’t something God instilled in Adam what God gave us freedom to choose which mean Adam had a choice to obey God or disobey. It’s like a person who invented a pen for writing purpose but someone can use it to harm people. And the person who invented the pen isn’t responsible for the action of the person who harmed other. Likewise God created us with a freewill because you’re not truly moral agent or alive if you can’t choose and all you do is programmed by you into detail.
@@MuMung101 Was simply disobeying God’s command to not eat from the tree really so terrible that it deserved eternal dire consequences? And why punish not just them, but all of humanity after them, so harshly if he set up the situation himself? Isn’t that kind of evil? Does he not bear 100% responsibility for it as the only one with foreknowledge of what would happen, especially seeing as Adam and Eve lacked any real knowledge before eating of the tree? Makes no sense whatsoever.
@@MuMung101 When you are born you think you are free? You are absolutely dependent on others because you are born with billions of needs. You don’t choose what you need, you are born with it. As you grow up, you have more needs, such as eduction, family, responsibility, health care, wealth, defense, insurance etc. By and large everything you do in life especially the major ones are driven by your needs not by your Freewill. Now where did your needs come from? You are born with it so created by God which means God is responsible everything that happens around your life. You can still argue like drowning man has a choice between swim or not swim, man in the burning house has a choice between staying inside or escaping when he can, hungry man has a choice between eat or not eat, sick man has a choice between taking medicine or not to take medicine etc. Out of all these incidents, all normal human will do instinctively exactly the same 100% of the time because that is exactly what they needed at that moment. If I have pre-knowledge of someone using the pen I created as a weapon and if I have the power to prevent it and if I care about it, I would have prevented the entire incidents. You can choose between yours wants but not between your needs. Adam had a Freewill because he was born with free of needs. Adam did not require to depend on his parents, he did not require to eat, he did not require protection, he doesn’t require to go school, work, health care etc.
Samuel Hunter book of Enoch says the tree wasn't desirable, not pleasing to the eye, and the fruit wasn't special, the lies convinced Eve otherwise, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden they walked by the Tree of knowledge but it had withered and died and they didn't recognize it.
tod beard - yes they did... don’t eat the tree’s fruit = right, eat the tree’s fruit = wrong. obey God’s one rule = right, disobey God’s one rule = wrong.
God gave them many trees from which they could eat but only one that was forbidden. Yet we focus on the single tree and ignore the rest of the garden. The choice God gave them was the choice to obey.
yes, there are 3 major trees in the Book of Genesis 1. Ordinary fruit & non-fruit bearing trees (Adam & Eve can freely eat them anytime) 2. The Tree of The Knowledge of Good & Evil (not necessarily the knowledge about the universe) -- is the one forbidden by God to touch, let alone, munch on Lastly, this is quite unfamiliar to many of us The "Tree of Life" (this Tree could possibly bear the "Fruit of Immortality") (Rev. 22v2). This is the only tree that's visible to John's vision (Book of Revelation) This fruit of the Tree of Life ("the Fruit of Immortality") will be served during the Wedding Banquet The person who bite this fruit will live for eternity... forever & ever... What had happen to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil? That's a big mystery... READ Genesis (2v8) and Genesis (3v21-24) for details
@@anjelomichelangelo7726 no, Adam & Eve & their children, as well as, their descendants were *not* yet sealed with immortality yes, none of us were able "to bite & eat" the *Tree of Life* to secure us of eternal life or immortality that's why, all of us has to die, in one way or another perhaps, the fruit from the *Tree of Life* would be served in the Heavenly Wedding Banquet always remember: Jesus Christ is the true meaning for the symbolic *Tree of Life* yes, Jesus will be there at the great *Heavenly Feast*
@@nzsl368 so adam and eve were still mortal before the sin? didn't they lost immortality because of the sin (because of the sin, death came in the world) did god created first human being as a mortal creature? also, after adam and eve ate the fruit from forbidden tree and gain the ability to differentiate good and evil - didn't they already knew that eating from forbidden tree was an "evil" thing? didn't they already have the ability to understand what was bad and good? thank you for answer.
The answer I came up with as well is similar. God wants us to Love them and to worship them BUT if that’s all we could do then we never had a choice it was the only option. So he created an option that was the opposite (even though he knew man would choose it and be damned) Which is why he came up with a plan to save us from this fate but sending himself in human form to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven. He knew the sight of this act would lead us back to him as well freely. This creating the perfect universe of creatures with free will that’s in harmony. Because if he didn’t create us with FREE WILL then we would not be human we would be something different. So to create a human is to give them free will but it wouldn’t be of any use if humans didn’t have choices. If a made a being that only eats fruit and I want it to eat apples but I also want it to freely choose the apple to eat I can’t just put an apple in front of it it has no choice and is doing what I want. But if I put an apple and an orange and it eats the orange and decides that apples are better. I then created a creature with free will and the ability to use it.
@@l4krThere is to show the consequences of disobedience. When we carefully meditate in Genesis Fall we see that we can from beginning learn many lessons just from one disobedience
Tell your native Spanish friends in Christ to read Acts 2. God provides a shortcut to the language barrier. Then have them contact me when living a lie has finally made them recognize the error of their way.
I wouldn't call it a limit, but I would say there's things that God can't mess with....like a circle isn't a triangle, which isn't a square. It wouldn't make sense that all of these would be one shape etc... Also, I agree.....why couldn't God only make people who would accept him and not eat from the tree? Is it insinuating that everyone would eat from the tree? What about when we die and God allows us to be with him forever? Do we have free will then?
@camonly849 who made the circle and the triangle? I believe an ultimate Supreme being could make 1 + 1 = 5 if he wanted. If humans can figure out 4th or 5th dimensional mathematics where there are additional vectors beyond x,y,z, then would our creator be capable of infinitely more? I wonder about the end, too.
@@colinkamoda9502That doesn’t make any sense. 1 plus 1 can’t ever equal 5 no matter what. That’s like saying you’re a human and an elephant at the same time. Or that you’re a married bachelor. Mutually exclusive things can’t coexist. Being a human excludes the possibility of also being an elephant. Being married means you’re no longer a bachelor. And 2 of something (1 and 1) can never be 5 of something. This should be a simple concept to grasp.
@Ragnar-Lothbrok967 What you said is simple to understand, there is no need to be diminutive for asking a question, especially after you failed to answer it. That may be my fault as it is a difficult concept to explain or grasp over the internet. Where did the concept for '2' come from, or did any concept of objective reality come from? I would say that it came from looking at nature and making a reasonable deduction based on the evidence provided. Some might say God, and those are likely both true assertions (not really sure of my answer, but I don't think it matters in regards to my question or this discussion). If you take the bible at face value, there was nothing and will be nothing after God except by his allowing its creation. So, where did 1 + 1 and any other concept in your mind come from? Where did 'hot' come from? How about 'cold' or literally any descriptive word, or more importantly, what idea it aims to represent? So, in regards to an ultimate answer, God, like everything else. Are you saying that there is a limit to what God is capable of and that the concepts he made somehow existed outside of himself and took precedent in his creation of existence? Because, for a truly sovereign God, nothing is beyond his ability. He could make something that is simultaneously light and dark, hot and cold, wet and dry. It is only a lack of understanding by humans that says that the concepts we operate with in life supercede his abilities, that there is a hard limit on superpositions. With that in mind, why couldn't God do two contradictory things at the same time? I hope you don't claim to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ because his proclaimed redemption would be a 'contradiction' by human imagination. Check out Descartes, "The Discourse on Method" and "The Meditations," and maybe some of Humes work. The more eloquently describe some of these ideas that I may fail to. And just to say man, if you ever believe you're right, and at the end of making your argument or presenting a thesis or antithesis, then have to throw a comment meant to insult a person's intellegence, you are letting you're ego direct your actions, not a higher mode of virtue. Spreading truth and the sharing of ideas is more important than being proven right. I hope you can read what i said, and we can have a discussion over how you believe I am wrong, in good faith.
Original sin is understood as a Perfect Soul made in the image of YHWH inserted into mortal flesh. The mortal physical body on Earth is biodegradable. But the new bodies in Space are different.
@@ashley_brown6106 I've already replied to this but youtube deleted my comment. :/ Adam and Eve were guilty because they disobeyed God. They knew that God warned them not to eat the fruit of that particular tree. They chose not to trust God. They knew what God had said and understood He did not want them to eat from that tree and they did so anyways, they chose to believe the snake over God. It could perhaps be argued that they did not understand the consequences but that is a poor measure of an action. Obeying out of fear is a lesser good than obeying out of loving trust. Adam and Eve might not have had the fear of consequences but that should not really matter since they should have loved and trusted God more than a passing snake.
If your parent commands you to not do something, most people will listen instinctively. It's the same with God. It was called the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Satan told them they would be more knowledgeable and powerful than God of they ate from the tree. He told them God was lying to them. He said God didn't want them to be all powerful as he was. So they disobeyed for their own gain instead of following the commandments set by him, their creator. The same way humans are swayed to do nonsense thinking only of their benefit, they knew what they were doing when they did it.
Why would he create us and love us yet knowing our human limitations would end up seeing many tormented in the lake of fire forever? If he knew that many angels and humans would ultimately fall, would that kind of love justify eternal flame. Because he had the wisdom and knowledge to understand that he had created living things that cannot resist sin, cannot be perfect, he also knew we would surely fail. And that limitation which encompasses freewill will be our fault?
But He DID create Adam and Eve perfect, it was only after they ate the fig that sin entered in. Blood entered in; I wonder if maybe they had a water circulatory system before the fall.
Because He knows we can fight over it Sin is just a sin it's easy disobey God or obey God If God make us a robot where we only have choice to obey him do you think that will be called love? Plus obeying or disobeying is a choice He knows that there will be tormented in the lake of fire so He use some people to teach other people about it and what to do to not to be at hell,and of course there will be sufferings if we don't obey him because we choose to be tormented in hell rather than having a faith and love for Him
I think this is eventually a very complex question because what we're really asking is - did God purposefully create a human being that He knew and designed as such that this human will choose to disobey Him, that it might kill someone or hurt someone or hurt him-/herself. That's a question to how our decisions are really made inside of us and how God willed us to be and how He really achieved this freedom in us. I don't think I see this in depth to know the answer but I'm pretty sure that it really is our free choice still.
Must remember that after God created man, He said "It is good." This was BEFORE the fall of Adam and Eve. They WERE good before they ate the fig but then after they did "sin entered in."
@@nikkinik4188 im not sure why this question of the tree of knowledge hit me today. I was curious to look it up. If god knows the future..why did he create it??? Im sure if adam and eve didnt eat from it....someone later on the road would have. Were a curious race.
I wouldn't ask why can't there be a place without this kind of choice. I would ask, why all-knowing, benevolent God would create a challenge with such grave consequences for such naïve creatures knowing how much suffering it will inflict? That doesn't sound like a treat from all-loving being for favorite creature of all in the creation.
@@black-shiip1323 Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
@@black-shiip1323 Trusting in Jesus Christ IS repentance. Repentance, in the context of biblical salvation, means to change your mind. Repentance does NOT mean stop sinning as many apostates would have you believe.
I am a Christian and I had the same question as well. However, if God is all knowing and he knew that Adam and Eve will disobey, why He would still create the tree?
I agree, why even create the tree in the first place? Why put it where he did? I look at like this......If you had kids and you put a loaded gun in the middle of their play area and one of them got shot, who's fault would it be? It would clearly be the parents fault, they would probably be brought up on criminal charges even. Why is god different? Adam and Eve would still of had free will even if the tree of knowledge never existed in the first place. Just like the kids in the room had free will whether or not the loaded gun was there.
I am not God but my closest answer would be because God wants u to experience good and bad. Just because I cannot answer this does not mean i don’t have faith in God
Because a relationship is a two way street and God created an opportunity for mankind to exercise their freedom. The tree was not evil but good. God looked out over all he had created and saw it was very good.
Atheism is true. Now then...is there some rule of logic or physics that says only Christians are allowed to succeed when using the fallacy of argument by assertion? What's next? The doctrine of fairness is from the devil? LOL
Why? Obedience is only valuable because it can protect us. The world is sometimes dangerous and obedience keeps us alive. However, God made the world and if he wanted to make it without danger, he could have
@@ADMusic1999 God creates what He wills, to serve Him, and He DOES create everything without any danger *to Him* . News: He doesn’t create in order to serve U. Instead, creatures are to serve Him. Get over yourself man ...
Disobeying is not the sin, eating fruit was not the sin. The Doubt and Distrust of YHWH was their sin. "Why did you Hide ?" "Who Told You you are naked ?" The incorrect statements by Eve. 'shall not touch it' was not part of YHWHs command. The distrust of YHWH by hiding. The doubt in their actions immediately followed by the blame game. Lucifer is created also by YHWH and in the garden too.
Even JESUS CHRIST as a man did not pleased all people. Same like an autonomous culture we live. You do good works some will oppose you. You do bad things definitely somebody will oppose you. If you dont do anything again some one will criticize you for it. So where will u stand. I need Love.
One can't disobey God until there's a choice between obedience and DISOBEDIENCE. It's not IMPORTANT that God knows what our choices will be before we make them. What IS important is that we make the RIGHT choices to demonstrate our desire to PLEASE Him.
The God of The Bible basically Created a tree with forbidden fruit so to speak and Then places it dead smack Where His creation can have access to it. It's NO different whatsoever Than an irresponsible parent placing poison sweets dead smack Where His children can have access to them, Very Sadistic Indeed. I am 36 years old by the way, Black American male.
What I wonder to The full most is why couldn't The God of The Bible have just programmed His creation with Perpetual Perfect Nature plus Free Will from The Start??? So That There wouldn't even have to be a such Thing as Sin or A Judgement Day for That Matter??? For an example if tech designers can make and design computerized phones Then The God of The Bible SHOULD have The Power to do infinitely better.
Ok now my next question is, what about the new heaven and earth? Will we still have freewill after that when evil is forever gone? And if so, why didn’t God just cast away evil before He created all of His creations ?
If there is no evil there is no free will anymore that is the point for us to chose by our free will Either good or evil. To be slave to God or to Satan. That is what this is about. That is why those who chose God remain forever because they will do inly good forever. Because God is Source of all that is Good. I know it is late answer but I hope that this helps you
@@warriorofthelord4142 well, if that is the case, then according to you, evil wouldn’t be destroyed. According to most Christians, God made free will because He loves us and wouldn’t force us to choose one way. But, in Revelation 21:1-5 it talks about a new Heaven and new earth, the part where evil will cease to exist in the realm of God at all, where He will wipe away all of our tears to where we don’t cry anymore. And that also means we won’t have the capability to sin anymore no matter what choice we make. What I mean by that is, that means we will still have free will, but not like we do in this life. In this life we can choose between good and evil, but in the next life we will have freewill to choose any choices that are within the will of God. We won’t become robots, being a slave means to do the will. A slave in this life is more well known about what it looks like to be slave to humans, which means getting whipped, abused, shouted at, or burning in the sun outside, treated less important etc. But, with God are all equal under Him and it will be different. But in a fallen world to be a slave to God the world will hate us because of Satan. In this life, slave as humans means if a king wants something large to be built, they are required to do that task against their own will because they have two wills (their own and their masters; opposites), but one day, our will, will align with God’s will completely and we will be wiped clean as white as snow from sin and we will be made perfect. If good and evil always exists forever including the realm that God put us in to choose from, then we would never be good people. Good says there is none who are good, not one, except the Lord Jesus Christ. If Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and also from the tree of life, they’d have lived in their sin for all eternity, why do you think God kicked them out of the garden and guarded the way before they could eat from the tree of life also? You and I, if we choose God everyday in this life, we still have the capability of sinning because we are in the old flesh, it’s not until the next life that we be made perfect. Maybe one of the reasons why God allows evil to flourish for a time is because of what Romans 5:3-5 says: “Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” So, even though evil is not the will of God, He has used evil to build us up, testing us, that is what this life right now is, a test.
In other for you to live in CHRIST, you have to die outa sin. God destroy the earth once and HE didn't wanna do it again, so Jesus came down and create the way(HE is the way)
When he knows we freely choose to love him by proving our actions here on earth, then he knows we will appreciate it more. After coming up from struggle, famine, pain and misery down here (I call this hell), you tend to appreciate the finer things right? So it'll be the same thing. A place without temptation where you can live and be HAPPY consistently. I personally don't believe everyone will be able to go to heaven or paradise (which ever you prefer to call it). I think God allows you to choose to live a life ran by his rules and regulations, and if you choose his side you gain eternal happiness.
@LDavis1293 That is quite a test for an all-powerful, loving God. The test: He puts us on earth without any consent of us having a choice to partake in this test, with his 1st failed creation(Satan and demons) and makes us Into these weak biological creatures setting us up to have to work our whole life and basically try to survive but left a book that we can read to try and get to know this Invisible God in a 1way relationship. On top of that, we don't know which religion to choose because each one opposes the other. So now we gotta gamble in hopes that we chose the right God. And because he loves us so much, he sacrificed himself to himself to forgive what he created and if we don't get it all right before we die in this quick life, then instead of giving you consent to go back to nothingness where we came from, he decided to create this Lovely place called Hell where he burns his lovely children for eternity in the most evil way when all this poor human creature tried to do is survive the already hard life of living on this earth with these powerful demons that can basically control us. If this is not the biggest red flag of the bible and a contradiction of what Love is, then I don't know what else to argue about after that. I personally don't believe in any of this, but I have been through it, and I'm free from fairy tales. Don't mind my sarcasm. It's not meant to disrespect you but rather express my way of thought. One thing I did learn is that delusional people are happier than people like me who think logically, and sometimes I wish I could go back because I fight with depression in this life
Not Robots: total Batas that love to be in chains and enjoy beings YHWHs slaves for eternity. Capable of free will for useful decision making, in terraforming new planets, but totally in love with being slaves. A.I. replaces the meat based humans and mkst likely the 'church' rapture is the end of humanity on Earth... What is left lover will be cyborgs, genetically engineered creatures containing human minds, and all computer based A.I. to be deleted when Earth is destroyed by the Messiah.
Only if you care nothing for valid logic. Only if you care nothing for how biblically informed atheists, like me, could trounce him seven times over in a debate.
@@hotrodmtf The Mormons tell me the same, and i also dismiss it as nothing but religiously fervent delusion. What are you gonna say next? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, you' d never have quit smoking?
I think it is very selfish for anyone to question the creation of something else by God just because it could tempt them. It's like a man questioning why God created a lady so beautiful if He knew that the man would be tempted..I think that's a spoiled brat right there! They only want what is good for them to exist, and good can not exist for any other purpose unless it is designed to just benefit them. That's very selfish!
joshua massawe I asked this question in bible study. Not because I am selfish, I was genuinely curious. I was a new Christian and reading my Bible everyday and when we got on the topic of the temptation in the garden I asked. The same answer above was given and made so much sense to me. I say all that because it’s ok for us to ask questions about God. How else can people come to Christ and know who He is without asking questions. I ask questions to God all the time and also in bible studies. Be blessed
@@719leslie719 I understand dear Leslie. I see that I may have overlooked the possibility of someone asking that just out of well intended curiosity rather than selfishness.
But in of itself isn't it selfish of God wanting him to have free willing people to love him. To create and knowingly know the outcome and damn the ones to hell for not accepting. I understand the whole point of having the option to choose between him and yourself. (I'm saying "yourself" bc that's mainly the reason ppl go to hell for their own love to what "sins" they feel pleasure with) But God knowingly creates Lucifer, creates man and woman, creates Eden with forbbiden fruit, knows that trillions of people are about to be affected in eternity in either heaven or hell. Majority in hell. I don't look at it from a religious pov when I have this topic. I look at it from a secular pov. To me that in itself is evil to know the majority of people you create, will go to hell. Just so the few that don't will worship him. He could of literally the same test in this life without a hell to fear and just make you non existencing after not deciding to love him. But then you don't get many people actually caring about it in fact I'm willing to bet that he would get far less souls than he's getting in heaven. Again I'm looking at it from a secular. I've been to church and honestly get kick out for asking these questions.
Well you know YHWH wanted humans to be disobedient which is why he favors Cain over Abel. Able was a total suck up, Cain dropped him because Abel had it coming... Abel killed all those animals and didn't care for the blood he shed. Cain One Uped him by taking him out. YHWH Blessed and protected Cain with a special sign so no one would harm him.
@@Sawa607 Your analogy is wrong. The poison wasn't the apple, but human nature. Humans had the potential and inclination to sin before they ate the apple - that is why they ate the apple in the first place. God set humans up to fail because he knew in advance before he created them, that no human would be capable of living up to his expectations. Of course I don't believe any of this actually happened. I'm just pointing out the things you have to believe if you believed the bible was true
@@xaindsleena8090 apple 👀 who said it was an apple, you see how fallible you are to make assumptions 🧐, now if you made that error how are you sure you're not in error concerning your eternal salvation.
No, more like 10,000,000,000 hostages put in a mortal contest like hunger games, and the best 144,000 that finish the race first win the goal of being slaves for all eternity & they are joyful about it.
So God knew they would disobey but then wont forgive them for their very human mistake. Instead he allegedly has his son killed for someone elses mistake not that that is a crime in itself.
The first thing we obtain as humans is free will. Given free will we are going to choose things that are good and bad. This is a story explaining that to us. This duality of experience takes a very long time to evolve out of however time is infinite.
0:15 you just Strawmanned his question within 15 seconds by inserting the word "could". Not just he created a world where they could disobey. He also created after knowing they W.O.U.L.D DISOBEY.
@@_.incredible_magnum._291 so if God caused the situation where we wouldn't sin, would we need to ask the question why he would do so, since the answer would be clear?
@@EmberBright2077 what he tries to say is that god knows what happens when it happens but like in the past, so he knows what u had for breakfest because u ate it today but he knows it 2000 years ago because u had it today and he saw it, so now he knows it 2000 years ago aswell, because he doesnt have past or present or future its more like a map where he can see all at the same time when it happens, you still decide what happens or what u eat today but he knows as soon it happens. hope it makes sense, but for us humans time stuff is always mind breaking
I like the answer, Dr. Frank gave. You could also say that God loves his creation and so wants to be loved openly and freely without any conditions. God does and does not want controlled robots/slaves by default.
So why not create only the ones that will accept God, instead of creating both that will accept him and those that won't? Why create a bunch of people knowing they'll send themselves to hell?
@@jacobshank7336 And because God is love, he deliberately set up Adam and Eve to fail, just so he could punish all of humanity? How does that kind of sadistic tyrany equate to love?
One of many fables in the bible that doesn't make any sense. Like the horrific act of telling Abraham to murder his son to test his faith. So wretchedly immoral on so many levels
It goes to show that even the most illogical of stories designed to present an ultimate moral deity is a story that can be spun to make sense if a belief in that deity is absolutely required to avoid the prospect of eternal torture.
Its to mirror God sacrificing his son as a lamb. God did what he tested abraham with. Sacrifice his son as a lamb so we can have salvation. There are so many hints about this.
All these purported "mysteries" and "controversies" become MUCH easier to process when you realize the stories behind them simply...aren't...true. Trust me guys it's not that difficult lol.
God is not a tyrant. GOD gave freedom to His people to choose to be good and bad servants.He is our Creator.God is the judge.He is just. We shall rethink the attributes of our Lord.
God deliberately set up Adam&Eve to fail. God knew prior to creating Adam&Eve what would happen, he then deliberately took action to put them in a situation where they would fail, solely for the purpose to punish all of humanity. That doesn't just make him a tyrant, but a sadistical tyrant.
If you wanted to surround yourself with killer robots, wouldn't you also want to know you could trust all of them completely to do anything you say and obey all orders, without question ?
The point is u have what's call a "juice". It's not a myth it's a choice. And if u have choices than you are free. GOD made good trees and bad trees, it's your choice to choose but HE had warned you.
If I caught my 2 yr old daughter eating a cookie out of the jar, even though I commanded her not to, the first thing I would do is look around for any talking snakes that may have tempted her, but it must have slithered away… I see that I left the jar open on the ground, with a trail of permitted candies leading up to it, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. To emphasize the point of my daughter’s betrayal, I will destroy every toy she owns and kick her out of the house naked and afraid. Oh, and she is NEVER welcome back.I keep telling her I love her more than anything and this is the only possible action I can do. I mean, I can’t have a child around in my kingdom that disobeys me! The fact that she is a child, still learning, not fully understanding how to make decisions and how to stem her curiosity… irrelevant! I will also have to be sure that any future family she has also doesn’t get any toys. The fact that I have foresight and KNEW she would take the cookies if I put the jar on the ground is no excuse for her betrayal. She is now a heathen, and I will be invisible to her but also expect her full devotion. BECAUSE I LOVE HER.
I think we have to ask questions. They are the related to our doubts, I think God would rather us ask than marinate in our doubts. I think the motive of the questions is what one has to consider.
@@ertfgghhhh exactly. Adam DID eat still. The young man has some ignorance (hence him calling the tree evil rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil) so it makes sense why he immediately went to Adam. We are indeed fallen in Adam (before Christ saved(s) us) not fallen in Eve nor fallen in Adam and Eve, but just in Adam the representative of ALL of mankind.
It's not up to us to choose God. God does the choosing, not man. When God calls us, we come. When God chooses us, how can we say no? Where do we get the power to oppose God? He is God, we are His creation, not the other way around. He is in charge of everything. He knows the outcome even before He calls or chooses. He decides who comes and who doesn't. Are we the creators of our life and death, our beginning and end? Trust me, if God calls you, you are coming, like it or not. God created Adam and Eve as imperfect beings. He knew what would happen with the tree and the fruit. He knew the start and also knows the end. He wills that all men be saved, and saved they will be, each in their order. Who can stop Him? He created the devil, a lair from the start, God created him. He created man and will form him in His image and likeness however long it takes. The timing is His, not ours. His reasons will be revealed to all of mankind when we become like Him. Amen!
How anybody could believe this mess. God creates people knowing they are going to sin...and creates them anyway. He creates them his way...so he is responsible for our shortcomings, yet he burns people for eternity for the shortcomings he created. Evil god
@@youngnixx88788 in a way. If god put sinful nature into people at birth, then yes he is responsible. If you put sin into people, then you will get sin out
@@youngnixx88788 of course god put sin in man. We didn't do it: Psalm 51:5 5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." We have no control of any sin in our birth. No control whatsoever. So god is responsible for sin in us
Love without freewill is a LOGICAL contradiction in THIS world. If God is all powerful, and God created logic, he could have created a world where love without freewill does not contradict. Therefore saving part of his creation from hell (assuming he would want to do that). He is powerful enough to do this correct? Why didn't he?
Lack of pursuit makes us ask shallow questions. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but once we decide to really know God and accept him we realize more and more how childish some questions we had were lol. But he understands us, but we gotta make our part and accept him ;)
childish question ? heh ; because of that thing you are mortal now according to bible ; it's childish ? first adam was immortal ;'then adam become mortal after he ate fruit ; so it's childish that you live in misery ? clown ... you don't even use mind when you are reading those verses ; what does it really means ;
Either God is not merciful and loving or, God does not have the ability to create a world that has an optimum environment for human well-bring and prosperity. And even if Adam and Eve disobeyed God, that should have no relationship to other people. That violates the notion that every individual is an independent entity unto himself. In other words, the reasoning behind the entire Biblical premise is terribly flawed. It is as though the concept was concocted by a very human culture centuries ago that was not yet privy to modern enlightenment.
What an idotic answer. Why create a tree that will be a direct temptation? Just don't create the tree and remove the temptation all together, doesnt the Bible say not to tempt ur Children in proverbs. Frank dummkoff Turk
@@camonly849 well brilliant so the creator allows his creature to violate his garden and put adam and eve in such a bind. Do u realize how that sounds?
@captainmarvelmsc7692 I was just pointing out that you were mistaken saying the tree was the temptation, when it wasn't. Either way they made the decision etc. However I think the better question is why didn't God just choose someone who would have listened to him.
If you place a man in a room with no windows and you command him not to open the window how is he to disobey your? Where is his freedom of choice? Without choice there is no freedom.
A story where two people had no knowledge of right and wrong prior to picking fruit from the tree of knowledge and they're punished. Makes a lot of sense.
Because EVERY THING was right and All was good. After they DISOBEYED they began to know evil starting from realizing their nakedness. Or maybe you’re just dum, and this makes no sense to your tiny ltl steroided brain.
@@falsehoodbasher7240 So I take it you believe in talking snakes and donkeys, huh genius? We've all heard of the tale of the talking snake in the garden with Adam and Eve. And some have heard of Balaam's talking donkey in Numbers22:21-39 and you're likely goofy enough to believe that nonsense aren't you? I take it you think the old sitcom with Mr. Ed, the talking horse, was based on a true story... I know....It's all too bright for me. Christians are very good at BSing themselves and each other.
@@falsehoodbasher7240 Try learning how to spell "dumb" slick. Hint.... It's not spelled "dum". You're not the brightest bulb in the chandelier are you?
Then how do you explain revelation then? Where he creates a new earth where there is no sorrow, no death, no pain. That would be a world without freedom because then everyone would just be happy and do good deeds all the time. That’s completely contradictory to what we discussed here
The point is you choose your freedom by becoming slave if God forever as you born to be and His precious child that will love Him and He you forever. That free will is all about. Yes at the end you loose it because you have chose Good and you are transformed into Light as God is truly being made in His image just like remaining Angels. Just like it is written there is no Night or Dat there because God is their Light
lol ; without forgivness ? lol ; there's no need if adam/eve were immortals ; do you see flaws there ? where's you brain ? it fall of your head ? first adam/eve were immortals and they weren't need of forgivness ; and that's flaw in your head ; there's some holes in it ; if god didn't made an evil thing and snake in the garden and put them front of poor adam/eve ; we would have been immortals according to your book ; but nope ; yo uare saying something stpdity xddd ; god made adam/eve mortal ; it's was him not adam/eve ; and sin and evil things exists because of him not because us ; we do evil yes ; but it was him who put front of adam/eve an evil tree which caused adam/eves mortality the tree which been made up by god and also snake with it ; but you people don't use your brain ; answer yourself you clown ; would you make atomic bomb in the garden where your little children live ? and would you put the button which is wakling around front of them ? which will seduce them ? will you do those things to your children you clown ? and after you will call yourself just kind and loving father ? will you do to your children such things ? when you know the result before you will do ? and after the button will seduce them will you kick them out of your house you clwn ? and after that you will call yourself good and loving father ?
I agree with the standpoint on the ability to choose God. But eternal damnation for an inbuilt flaw is doesn’t resonate with the label of “most merciful”
So ONE person screws up and ruins it for BILLIONS of other innocent people. Yeah, sure. That is logical. NOT! I think God made a mistake and is learning from it. He DID say that "he was sorry that he made mankind." To be sorry that you did something IS ADMITTING that you made a mistake. Use some critical thinking folks and dont believe everything you read.
Could God claim to have given us free will if we are never given an opportunity to exercise our will? If someone told you that your are free to go to the door on the left, but the only door that existed was on the right; was you ever given a chose? This is why the tree had to be created even though God knew Eve would eat from it. It is an act of love to allow your children the break your heart.
There was free will in heaven and Lucifer rebelled. There was free will on earth and Adam and Eve sinned. Is there going to be free will in heaven to make our own choices?
The bible says with the temptation God made a way of escape. What people don't realize is God provided the out. Answer is the Tree of Life. All they had to do is eat from the Tree of Life first and ball game is over. That's why Satan came before they did.
Bingo! They could still eat from a tree, just not the one God directly commanded them not to. God gave us free will and it was their choice but He always guides us in the process.
Easy answer. For his glory. God through salvation in Christ is more glorious to us in the face of evil in the same way that light is more brilliant when contrasted with darkness.
How did Adam & Eve know it was wrong before eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Also, if they already had knowledge of good and evil the. was what the point of the tree of good and evil? They could’ve done something else “sinful”.
@@davidnewhart2533 what’s the point of the tree of knowledge of good and evil if their god is already telling them what’s right and wrong? Did Adam and Eve have a concept of good and evil already? If not then god telling they will die is moot. If you were tell a 6 month old child not to do something but they don’t understand the concept then it’s pointless.
@@hewhositsuponfroggychair5722 it’s the question of legality. It’s a question of knowledge and being held accountable for something that you don’t understand.
This answer doesn't satisfy. Why create it? So we can only send ourselves to hell? Why create a hell? Why not just make us nonexistent after we die and that would be enough punishment. Reward the good still with heaven, but why the extent of burning for eternity as punishment? And also god knows us already, he knows we will sin and go to hell. I have a daughter and i would never burn her even if lied to me. I would never cause her ever lasting pain.
God creates humans because it is better than if there were none. God didn't create hell, hell is just the absence of God, which humans can freely choose to exist without him. It is not justice if the person doesn't suffer, so he wouldn't just make you nonexistent. Humans can being without god, so thats not really god punishing humans, but really just allowing them to do what they want. Humans will sin, but god has mercy and compassion, so unless you die with a moral sin and not repentant then you won't go to hell. Not all people who lie go to hell.
I believe Jesus said to judah? That it would be better if he weren't born. I would rather not exist if my existence would be sending myself to hell for not believing in a God who makes me along with everyone else if he even exists.
If god knew they would eat the fruit so how do they have free will if their actions were already predetermined? Unless god didn't know they would eat the fruit and that would make him a god who doesn't know everything
Freewill isn't a bad thing to have as long as nothing you do is considered evil. The using it to do evil is when it becomes a bad thing to have. Then you add a severe penalty that is beyond a punishment that humans could ever understand. For using your freewill to commit evil then it becomes something that humans shouldn't have and would be better off just being robots.
The question should be why is the penalty for rejecting God (which is death) so cruel? Not just for Christians but for everyone as we ALL die....Is the answer that God cannot have creatures like us chosing to reject him for eternity, so our lives are short and that those who do reject him for eternity, are eternally banned from his presence?
Why God didn't use his foreknowledge to create only people he foreknew that would truly worship him? That way he wouldn't be violating anybody's Freewill.
God would still create them even though they would not choose him because of several reasons, god loves them, they will create more people who love god, they will contribute some good to the world, they are apart of his plan ect. Really there are so many reasons that I am sure the smartest being to exist would have more than enough reason.
I would much rather not exist, than be subjected to eternal torture and damnation for eternity because God didn't make himself known to me. It just makes no sense why no one knows if he's real or not....why wouldn't he make it painfully obvious that he exists? If we all knew and believed in him none of us (in theory) would go to hell. I don't want to go to hell, but I also don't know if God is real or not.
@@camonly849 yeah i agree i would rather not exist then to spend eternity in hell. I guess god would rather play silly games basing or destinations on what we believe instead what we know to be true.
But couldn't an omnipotent creator make humans with free will that ultimately choose obedience? The choice to disobey is one thing, but making humans KNOWING that your 'code' will rebel is like a programmer writing a virus into the system, then blaming and punishing the system when it breaks...
The short answer is yes, so logically the next question would be... why didn't God do this??...well, if He made us with this knowledge which He did, then there must be a good reason for allowing this, otherwise it would be exactly what you described. When we begin to understand the purpose for creation in the first place, then we can understand why He did it this way....so, the whole purpose of creation is redemption. God created us this way to show that His love and grace isn't limited or cheap, rather it's priceless and unique, unlike any other in existence .... He can actually allow us to go wrong and still display His love and grace by coming to save us .. I don't think God could have shown us this great depth of His love and grace.... as He has done in Jesus' death for us. It's hard to imagine what could be a greater display of love.... than God coming in the Son to die for us, His enemies! That really is the definition of love...and without enemies, ie sinners there is nobody to whom this sort of amazing love could be displayed. Now.... God doesn't need the presense of sin to show His goodness, however the presense of sin shows Him to be good in ways, it's absence cannot.... so by permitting sin in this world, it provides a context for God to show the depths of His love and His amazing grace and mercy, that simply couldn't be shown in a world without sin..it also shows He can overcome anything. Now, remember God knows how everything works out in the end and He obviously knew before deciding to create, so of course it's all to His glory. Sin is not the final result of creation, but only part of it, bringing us to a greater outcome in the end, by experiencing this fallen world, it will led us to a better experience with God in eternity, because we will genuinely love Him and we will know for sure that He genuinely loves us back...if He is willing to die for us His enemies. If He started with the new earth without sin, how would we ever really know just how loving, righteous and forgiving God truly is?.. So rather than just knowing theoretically... by allowing us to experience and see sin, we can see the contrast between sin's destructiveness and God's goodness. In a world without sin, we would always have been left questioning amd wondering, just how loving and merciful He really is.. if we had never seen sin's destructiveness, it could only be known theoretically, however by experiencing the contrast, it gives us more appreciation for the contrast. God created this world so that He could come and redeem it and show how humble and gracious He is, showing us exactly why He is God and why there is no other like Him. He is so loving and righteous that He would rather die Himself, than kill His enemies...only God can display this unbelievable act. However He would never create and allow us to go through anything, that He wasn't prepared to go through Himself... His only reason for permitting sin is because He was prepared to come and face the consequences Himself for us. He allowed sin and suffering, but He faced the wrath of sin along us and for us so we can't accuse Him of being unfair.. He is righteous, and would never create this way and allow sin unless He was going to perfectly restore and redeem it ...what's also important to note is, this fallen earth is not the final outcome... in the end all evil and suffering is destroyed and God's perfect love and righteousness restored.
@@mykingofkings1439 Hey man, just wanted to say that i have been struggling a bit lately with this question and you really cleared it up for me and made me a stronger believer. Amen.
@@jacotay2827The deeper you go the more you learn and in His timing of course so patience is huge key and enduring perseverance in persecutions. And right here you have one of the most important questions and depths of God answered that many unfortunately even to this day ask but you will be wonderful testimony to them now because you have learned. What men gave you have here is Gem 💎 itself and you have ears to obtain it I congratulate you for willing to face and accept the Truth and Truth have made you free. No men has revealed this to you but God himself
It is not the "tree of evil"
It is called "tree of knowledge of good and evil"
The tree of life was less of a danger and more of an exit for Adam and Eve, should they not want to continue with what they already have from God. Also know that God never said that it would kill them immediately. The tree of life was a backpack with leavers equipment in the fruit so that they could live on their own because God new that it was wrong to force them to submit to this environment; God never made happy animals in a zoo, he made man with a free will and those things will always be different. And so when Adam bit from the fruit he was cursed with everything he needed to live alone an he and eve inherited that 'leavers suitcase'.
Got and Satan are Aliens!
And now we see lol, many dont like when i say this but i think it was all quite necessary because now we can see god for how great just and true he really is
@@rlineback2 yea you have that backwards because now we see god wanted us as slaves and to stay dumb and he punished those who gained knowledge he was mad when we became aware he only wanted obedience and servitude
@@nintwindo5402 When Adam chose the deviational path, he was fallen from the standard of Goodness with God, before that when he didn't chose, I'm not sure exactly what it was like, but I think he was free and didn't know what evil was like, UNTIL he knew it.
Love is not true love unless its freely chosen
True Love comes not from man but from God ! Read your bible ...
@@modestasz2613 I read my bible every day and you are right but we choose to accept or reject him, I never said it came from man you misunderstood what I said, some people hate God and that is their choice, but I freely chose to love him
@@modestasz2613
You are thw one should read your bible!
@@costmostchannel578 Amen😉🙏
Really? Try loving someone willingly, I bet you can't. Love is something that you do unconciously, you can't just love someone out of your choice. Or even better, try hating someone you love willingly. Again, impossible. You have zero control over your feelings, absolutely zero.
Very good question, and the answer is simple....! God is not a dictator God has given us a freewill the ability to choose good or evil, one of God’s greatest attributes is that God will never punish anyone for something he hasn’t warned you about, so here we see that Adam was told well on time that if he does eat from the tree he will surely die.! God can never force anyone to do something, yes that includes your salvation, God will never make that choice for anyone, he has provided the means to get saved through Christ Jesus alone, now it’s entirely up to one to accept Jesus as lord and saviour...! FREEWILL!!
So what is the big deal if an elderly dying person wants to be helped to to die
So why even make evil an option through the tree? Is God going to give us this same option in the new heaven? By the definition of God wants imagers not robots, how are we to expect this not to happen again in heaven?
So God is dictator in heaven? Or there is no free fill in heaven because nobody sins in heaven? I
Isn't it peculiar that the whole concept of good and evil, right and wrong, is something that was established by none other than God himself? Yet, when we humans, the very beings he created, stumble and choose the wrong path, we're the ones who bear the brunt of it. Doesn't that strike you as odd or even a touch unfair? And I won't even get started on the whole free will debate. With all the scientific discoveries suggesting we're living in a holographic universe, controlled by a mind outside of time and space, it really makes you question if free will is just an illusion.
Very simple. You cannot have free will without a choice. It could have been anything. The Bible speaks of a tree. It could have been anything else. The point is you are not completely free without your self will. You are not a robot. God said to choose and make righteous decisions. And yes he will help guide you along the way so you don’t self destruct
One Step Away
But god knew what would happen he knew the outcome so therefore freewill is doesn’t exist with a god . It’s all contrived nonsense .
Mart TL1000S God knowing does not affect our ability to choose. In light he still applied a path to redemption
One Step Away
If there is no choice it does.
Mart TL1000S There was a choice.... And Again simply because God knows what we’ll pick doesn’t mean we aren’t able to chose freely
Samuel Appiah
If the deck is restricted how does that equate to a free choice ?
Most of us spiritually eat from the apple everyday, we even see it manifest into the physical on our apple phones. Please pray for me in Yeshua's name, to give me the strength to overcome sin. Thank you, Amen.
If your phone causes you to sin Should we not cast it away! 🤔🤔🤔. Sin is death. Sin is so closely linked In to people that a disconnection of no devices electronic seems like death. Do hard things and maybe we can learn from Ahmish folks. 🙄looking for beams in my eye now. 😳🤕😵😵. Sorry just bringing relevance to the discussion.
if you leave a loaded gun within a childs reach, you will be arrested for child endangerment.
Adam and Eve were adults.
@@MuMung101 Where did the temptation come from? Did God instill in Adam? So God is responsible.
@@TashiDelek1 Temptation isn’t something God instilled in Adam what God gave us freedom to choose which mean Adam had a choice to obey God or disobey. It’s like a person who invented a pen for writing purpose but someone can use it to harm people. And the person who invented the pen isn’t responsible for the action of the person who harmed other. Likewise God created us with a freewill because you’re not truly moral agent or alive if you can’t choose and all you do is programmed by you into detail.
@@MuMung101 Was simply disobeying God’s command to not eat from the tree really so terrible that it deserved eternal dire consequences? And why punish not just them, but all of humanity after them, so harshly if he set up the situation himself? Isn’t that kind of evil? Does he not bear 100% responsibility for it as the only one with foreknowledge of what would happen, especially seeing as Adam and Eve lacked any real knowledge before eating of the tree? Makes no sense whatsoever.
@@MuMung101 When you are born you think you are free? You are absolutely dependent on others because you are born with billions of needs. You don’t choose what you need, you are born with it. As you grow up, you have more needs, such as eduction, family, responsibility, health care, wealth, defense, insurance etc. By and large everything you do in life especially the major ones are driven by your needs not by your Freewill. Now where did your needs come from? You are born with it so created by God which means God is responsible everything that happens around your life.
You can still argue like drowning man has a choice between swim or not swim, man in the burning house has a choice between staying inside or escaping when he can, hungry man has a choice between eat or not eat, sick man has a choice between taking medicine or not to take medicine etc.
Out of all these incidents, all normal human will do instinctively exactly the same 100% of the time because that is exactly what they needed at that moment.
If I have pre-knowledge of someone using the pen I created as a weapon and if I have the power to prevent it and if I care about it, I would have prevented the entire incidents.
You can choose between yours wants but not between your needs. Adam had a Freewill because he was born with free of needs. Adam did not require to depend on his parents, he did not require to eat, he did not require protection, he doesn’t require to go school, work, health care etc.
It wasn't a tree of evil, rather the tree of knowledge OF good and evil. The tree wasn't bad, the motive behind eating its fruit was.
Samuel Hunter book of Enoch says the tree wasn't desirable, not pleasing to the eye, and the fruit wasn't special, the lies convinced Eve otherwise, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden they walked by the Tree of knowledge but it had withered and died and they didn't recognize it.
It wasn’t even the motive that was bad it was the disobedience. We have the wrong motive all the time. That’s not a sin though. Disobedience is a sin.
Samuel Hunter That’s Exactly right
Samuel Hunter
Yet they had no knowledge of right and wrong before they picked fruit from the tree of knowledge. Makes no sense.
tod beard - yes they did...
don’t eat the tree’s fruit = right,
eat the tree’s fruit = wrong.
obey God’s one rule = right,
disobey God’s one rule = wrong.
God gave them many trees from which they could eat but only one that was forbidden. Yet we focus on the single tree and ignore the rest of the garden. The choice God gave them was the choice to obey.
yes, there are 3 major trees in the Book of Genesis
1. Ordinary fruit & non-fruit bearing trees (Adam & Eve can freely eat them anytime)
2. The Tree of The Knowledge of Good & Evil (not necessarily the knowledge about the universe) -- is the one forbidden by God to touch, let alone, munch on
Lastly, this is quite unfamiliar to many of us
The "Tree of Life" (this Tree could possibly bear the "Fruit of Immortality") (Rev. 22v2). This is the only tree that's visible to John's vision (Book of Revelation)
This fruit of the Tree of Life ("the Fruit of Immortality") will be served during the Wedding Banquet
The person who bite this fruit will live for eternity... forever & ever...
What had happen to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil?
That's a big mystery...
READ Genesis (2v8) and Genesis (3v21-24) for details
@@nzsl368 thank you for your revelation about the tree of life. i am truly amazed by the God who is in the bible. :)
@@nzsl368 why was "tree of life" in the garden of edem, while adam and eve already were immortals? what was the point of "tree of life"?
@@anjelomichelangelo7726
no, Adam & Eve & their children, as well as, their descendants were *not* yet sealed with immortality
yes, none of us were able "to bite & eat" the *Tree of Life* to secure us of eternal life or immortality
that's why, all of us has to die, in one way or another
perhaps, the fruit from the *Tree of Life* would be served in the Heavenly Wedding Banquet
always remember: Jesus Christ is the true meaning for the symbolic *Tree of Life*
yes, Jesus will be there at the great *Heavenly Feast*
@@nzsl368 so adam and eve were still mortal before the sin?
didn't they lost immortality because of the sin (because of the sin, death came in the world)
did god created first human being as a mortal creature?
also, after adam and eve ate the fruit from forbidden tree and gain the ability to differentiate good and evil - didn't they already knew that eating from forbidden tree was an "evil" thing? didn't they already have the ability to understand what was bad and good?
thank you for answer.
The answer I came up with as well is similar.
God wants us to Love them and to worship them BUT if that’s all we could do then we never had a choice it was the only option.
So he created an option that was the opposite (even though he knew man would choose it and be damned)
Which is why he came up with a plan to save us from this fate but sending himself in human form to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven.
He knew the sight of this act would lead us back to him as well freely.
This creating the perfect universe of creatures with free will that’s in harmony.
Because if he didn’t create us with FREE WILL then we would not be human we would be something different.
So to create a human is to give them free will but it wouldn’t be of any use if humans didn’t have choices.
If a made a being that only eats fruit and I want it to eat apples but I also want it to freely choose the apple to eat I can’t just put an apple in front of it it has no choice and is doing what I want. But if I put an apple and an orange and it eats the orange and decides that apples are better. I then created a creature with free will and the ability to use it.
Ephesians 2:7
@Sapphire Sigil God ALLOWING Satan in the Garden of Eden is what cause Adam and Eve to SIN. Since Satan TEMPTS Eve into eating the fruit.
I can't believe anybody listens to turek. "God can't force anyone to do anything because they are free."
Except he does exactly that from gen to ezra.
Still doesn't explain why it's God who punished Adam and Even for eating the Apple. There's no reason.
@@l4krThere is to show the consequences of disobedience. When we carefully meditate in Genesis Fall we see that we can from beginning learn many lessons just from one disobedience
Does anyone know if theres videos like this in spanish or translated in spanish?
TampicoKingT , I have a bilingual Church History playlist on my page. We study lots of apologetics in Church History.
Tell your native Spanish friends in Christ to read Acts 2. God provides a shortcut to the language barrier. Then have them contact me when living a lie has finally made them recognize the error of their way.
I hate when people say that God couldn't give free will and prevent original sin. Are they saying that there is a limit to God's abilities?
I wouldn't call it a limit, but I would say there's things that God can't mess with....like a circle isn't a triangle, which isn't a square. It wouldn't make sense that all of these would be one shape etc...
Also, I agree.....why couldn't God only make people who would accept him and not eat from the tree? Is it insinuating that everyone would eat from the tree?
What about when we die and God allows us to be with him forever? Do we have free will then?
@camonly849 who made the circle and the triangle? I believe an ultimate Supreme being could make 1 + 1 = 5 if he wanted. If humans can figure out 4th or 5th dimensional mathematics where there are additional vectors beyond x,y,z, then would our creator be capable of infinitely more?
I wonder about the end, too.
@@colinkamoda9502That doesn’t make any sense. 1 plus 1 can’t ever equal 5 no matter what. That’s like saying you’re a human and an elephant at the same time. Or that you’re a married bachelor. Mutually exclusive things can’t coexist. Being a human excludes the possibility of also being an elephant. Being married means you’re no longer a bachelor. And 2 of something (1 and 1) can never be 5 of something. This should be a simple concept to grasp.
@Ragnar-Lothbrok967 What you said is simple to understand, there is no need to be diminutive for asking a question, especially after you failed to answer it. That may be my fault as it is a difficult concept to explain or grasp over the internet. Where did the concept for '2' come from, or did any concept of objective reality come from? I would say that it came from looking at nature and making a reasonable deduction based on the evidence provided. Some might say God, and those are likely both true assertions (not really sure of my answer, but I don't think it matters in regards to my question or this discussion).
If you take the bible at face value, there was nothing and will be nothing after God except by his allowing its creation. So, where did 1 + 1 and any other concept in your mind come from? Where did 'hot' come from? How about 'cold' or literally any descriptive word, or more importantly, what idea it aims to represent? So, in regards to an ultimate answer, God, like everything else. Are you saying that there is a limit to what God is capable of and that the concepts he made somehow existed outside of himself and took precedent in his creation of existence? Because, for a truly sovereign God, nothing is beyond his ability. He could make something that is simultaneously light and dark, hot and cold, wet and dry. It is only a lack of understanding by humans that says that the concepts we operate with in life supercede his abilities, that there is a hard limit on superpositions. With that in mind, why couldn't God do two contradictory things at the same time? I hope you don't claim to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ because his proclaimed redemption would be a 'contradiction' by human imagination.
Check out Descartes, "The Discourse on Method" and "The Meditations," and maybe some of Humes work. The more eloquently describe some of these ideas that I may fail to.
And just to say man, if you ever believe you're right, and at the end of making your argument or presenting a thesis or antithesis, then have to throw a comment meant to insult a person's intellegence, you are letting you're ego direct your actions, not a higher mode of virtue. Spreading truth and the sharing of ideas is more important than being proven right. I hope you can read what i said, and we can have a discussion over how you believe I am wrong, in good faith.
Original sin is understood as a Perfect Soul made in the image of YHWH inserted into mortal flesh.
The mortal physical body on Earth is biodegradable. But the new bodies in Space are different.
Thank you for this. It has genuinely helped me
But if they couldn't seperate between good and evil how could they possibly know that disobeying God is evil.!?!?
God commanded them not to eat.
@@alphazero5614 yes and how coyld they know that not following the command is bad or evil or wrong
@@ashley_brown6106 I've already replied to this but youtube deleted my comment. :/
Adam and Eve were guilty because they disobeyed God. They knew that God warned them not to eat the fruit of that particular tree. They chose not to trust God. They knew what God had said and understood He did not want them to eat from that tree and they did so anyways, they chose to believe the snake over God.
It could perhaps be argued that they did not understand the consequences but that is a poor measure of an action. Obeying out of fear is a lesser good than obeying out of loving trust. Adam and Eve might not have had the fear of consequences but that should not really matter since they should have loved and trusted God more than a passing snake.
If your parent commands you to not do something, most people will listen instinctively. It's the same with God. It was called the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Satan told them they would be more knowledgeable and powerful than God of they ate from the tree. He told them God was lying to them. He said God didn't want them to be all powerful as he was. So they disobeyed for their own gain instead of following the commandments set by him, their creator. The same way humans are swayed to do nonsense thinking only of their benefit, they knew what they were doing when they did it.
they could not. they did not even know what clothing is, or why they should wear clothing in the hot sun.
Why would he create us and love us yet knowing our human limitations would end up seeing many tormented in the lake of fire forever? If he knew that many angels and humans would ultimately fall, would that kind of love justify eternal flame. Because he had the wisdom and knowledge to understand that he had created living things that cannot resist sin, cannot be perfect, he also knew we would surely fail. And that limitation which encompasses freewill will be our fault?
And that's where Jesus comes in, a human without limitations (God), that's the justification for being, it's that the limited lacks the limited
But He DID create Adam and Eve perfect, it was only after they ate the fig that sin entered in. Blood entered in; I wonder if maybe they had a water circulatory system before the fall.
Check out the "gap theory" presented by robert breaker
Because He knows we can fight over it Sin is just a sin it's easy disobey God or obey God
If God make us a robot where we only have choice to obey him do you think that will be called love? Plus obeying or disobeying is a choice He knows that there will be tormented in the lake of fire so He use some people to teach other people about it and what to do to not to be at hell,and of course there will be sufferings if we don't obey him because we choose to be tormented in hell rather than having a faith and love for Him
If you truly have a faith on Him you will not ask this question in the first place because you knew that there was reason behind all of this
I think this is eventually a very complex question because what we're really asking is - did God purposefully create a human being that He knew and designed as such that this human will choose to disobey Him, that it might kill someone or hurt someone or hurt him-/herself. That's a question to how our decisions are really made inside of us and how God willed us to be and how He really achieved this freedom in us. I don't think I see this in depth to know the answer but I'm pretty sure that it really is our free choice still.
If you knew the truth about God, you'll know that what your saying about him is mostly false.
@@tonydixon25 is God all-knowing?
@@Dc225_ Yes, but not only
Must remember that after God created man, He said "It is good." This was BEFORE the fall of Adam and Eve. They WERE good before they ate the fig but then after they did "sin entered in."
@@nikkinik4188 im not sure why this question of the tree of knowledge hit me today. I was curious to look it up. If god knows the future..why did he create it??? Im sure if adam and eve didnt eat from it....someone later on the road would have. Were a curious race.
I wouldn't ask why can't there be a place without this kind of choice. I would ask, why all-knowing, benevolent God would create a challenge with such grave consequences for such naïve creatures knowing how much suffering it will inflict? That doesn't sound like a treat from all-loving being for favorite creature of all in the creation.
Repent and Trust/Have Faith in Jesus Christ Brothers & Sisters❤️
Remove that repent and we're good
Black-shiip
Luke 13:5
"i tell you, no: but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
@@black-shiip1323
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
@@black-shiip1323 Trusting in Jesus Christ IS repentance. Repentance, in the context of biblical salvation, means to change your mind. Repentance does NOT mean stop sinning as many apostates would have you believe.
@@black-shiip1323 Repentance is biblical
I am a Christian and I had the same question as well. However, if God is all knowing and he knew that Adam and Eve will disobey, why He would still create the tree?
I agree, why even create the tree in the first place? Why put it where he did? I look at like this......If you had kids and you put a loaded gun in the middle of their play area and one of them got shot, who's fault would it be? It would clearly be the parents fault, they would probably be brought up on criminal charges even. Why is god different? Adam and Eve would still of had free will even if the tree of knowledge never existed in the first place. Just like the kids in the room had free will whether or not the loaded gun was there.
Because it makes no sense, that's why.
I am not God but my closest answer would be because God wants u to experience good and bad. Just because I cannot answer this does not mean i don’t have faith in God
If you put a man in a room with no windows and told him not open a window, is he obeying you?
So we can go to hell lol
Are you doing any Canada visits? Would definitely attend here in Victoria BC
Because a relationship is a two way street and God created an opportunity for mankind to exercise their freedom. The tree was not evil but good. God looked out over all he had created and saw it was very good.
Argle Smith perfectly said
Jesus is risen
*has and is both correct :D
Indeed
Citation please.
Atheism is true. Now then...is there some rule of logic or physics that says only Christians are allowed to succeed when using the fallacy of argument by assertion? What's next? The doctrine of fairness is from the devil? LOL
My opinion is disobeying is the sin, not eating the fruit. Free will or not you must oney.
Why? Obedience is only valuable because it can protect us. The world is sometimes dangerous and obedience keeps us alive. However, God made the world and if he wanted to make it without danger, he could have
Laurence Osborn Eating the fruit was disobeying so eating the fruit was a sin
That sounds like an evil dictator, not a loving god
"Obey me or you will be punished" - The bad guy
@@ADMusic1999 God creates what
He wills, to serve Him, and He DOES
create everything without any danger
*to Him* . News: He doesn’t create in
order to serve U. Instead, creatures are
to serve Him. Get over yourself man ...
Disobeying is not the sin, eating fruit was not the sin. The Doubt and Distrust of YHWH was their sin.
"Why did you Hide ?" "Who Told You you are naked ?" The incorrect statements by Eve. 'shall not touch it' was not part of YHWHs command. The distrust of YHWH by hiding. The doubt in their actions immediately followed by the blame game. Lucifer is created also by YHWH and in the garden too.
Great answer! I never had a good answer to this question, but now I do!
Frank is slipping. His answers keep getting worse and worse
Even JESUS CHRIST as a man did not pleased all people. Same like an autonomous culture we live. You do good works some will oppose you. You do bad things definitely somebody will oppose you. If you dont do anything again some one will criticize you for it. So where will u stand. I need Love.
One can't disobey God until there's a choice between obedience and DISOBEDIENCE. It's not IMPORTANT that God knows what our choices will be before we make them. What IS important is that we make the RIGHT choices to demonstrate our desire to PLEASE Him.
The God of The Bible basically Created a tree with forbidden fruit so to speak and Then places it dead smack Where His creation can have access to it.
It's NO different whatsoever Than an irresponsible parent placing poison sweets dead smack Where His children can have access to them, Very Sadistic Indeed.
I am 36 years old by the way, Black American male.
What I wonder to The full most is why couldn't The God of The Bible have just programmed His creation with Perpetual Perfect Nature plus Free Will from The Start??? So That There wouldn't even have to be a such Thing as Sin or A Judgement Day for That Matter???
For an example if tech designers can make and design computerized phones Then The God of The Bible SHOULD have The Power to do infinitely better.
Ok now my next question is, what about the new heaven and earth? Will we still have freewill after that when evil is forever gone? And if so, why didn’t God just cast away evil before He created all of His creations ?
Underrated question here. I hope you get an answer
If there is no evil there is no free will anymore that is the point for us to chose by our free will
Either good or evil. To be slave to God or to Satan. That is what this is about. That is why those who chose God remain forever because they will do inly good forever. Because God is Source of all that is Good. I know it is late answer but I hope that this helps you
@@warriorofthelord4142 well, if that is the case, then according to you, evil wouldn’t be destroyed. According to most Christians, God made free will because He loves us and wouldn’t force us to choose one way. But, in Revelation 21:1-5 it talks about a new Heaven and new earth, the part where evil will cease to exist in the realm of God at all, where He will wipe away all of our tears to where we don’t cry anymore. And that also means we won’t have the capability to sin anymore no matter what choice we make. What I mean by that is, that means we will still have free will, but not like we do in this life. In this life we can choose between good and evil, but in the next life we will have freewill to choose any choices that are within the will of God. We won’t become robots, being a slave means to do the will. A slave in this life is more well known about what it looks like to be slave to humans, which means getting whipped, abused, shouted at, or burning in the sun outside, treated less important etc. But, with God are all equal under Him and it will be different. But in a fallen world to be a slave to God the world will hate us because of Satan. In this life, slave as humans means if a king wants something large to be built, they are required to do that task against their own will because they have two wills (their own and their masters; opposites), but one day, our will, will align with God’s will completely and we will be wiped clean as white as snow from sin and we will be made perfect. If good and evil always exists forever including the realm that God put us in to choose from, then we would never be good people. Good says there is none who are good, not one, except the Lord Jesus Christ. If Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and also from the tree of life, they’d have lived in their sin for all eternity, why do you think God kicked them out of the garden and guarded the way before they could eat from the tree of life also? You and I, if we choose God everyday in this life, we still have the capability of sinning because we are in the old flesh, it’s not until the next life that we be made perfect. Maybe one of the reasons why God allows evil to flourish for a time is because of what Romans 5:3-5 says: “Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” So, even though evil is not the will of God, He has used evil to build us up, testing us, that is what this life right now is, a test.
@warriorofthelord4142 what's up with ur God and slavery? He must like slavery or something.
In relation to the video, was the crucifixion of Christ plan A or plan B? The answer can be found in Acts 2:23.
great!
obviously, plan A
In other for you to live in CHRIST, you have to die outa sin. God destroy the earth once and HE didn't wanna do it again, so Jesus came down and create the way(HE is the way)
So basically, we have free will now but will become robots in heaven where you can no longer reject him
When he knows we freely choose to love him by proving our actions here on earth, then he knows we will appreciate it more. After coming up from struggle, famine, pain and misery down here (I call this hell), you tend to appreciate the finer things right? So it'll be the same thing. A place without temptation where you can live and be HAPPY consistently. I personally don't believe everyone will be able to go to heaven or paradise (which ever you prefer to call it). I think God allows you to choose to live a life ran by his rules and regulations, and if you choose his side you gain eternal happiness.
@LDavis1293 That is quite a test for an all-powerful, loving God. The test: He puts us on earth without any consent of us having a choice to partake in this test, with his 1st failed creation(Satan and demons) and makes us Into these weak biological creatures setting us up to have to work our whole life and basically try to survive but left a book that we can read to try and get to know this Invisible God in a 1way relationship. On top of that, we don't know which religion to choose because each one opposes the other. So now we gotta gamble in hopes that we chose the right God. And because he loves us so much, he sacrificed himself to himself to forgive what he created and if we don't get it all right before we die in this quick life, then instead of giving you consent to go back to nothingness where we came from, he decided to create this Lovely place called Hell where he burns his lovely children for eternity in the most evil way when all this poor human creature tried to do is survive the already hard life of living on this earth with these powerful demons that can basically control us. If this is not the biggest red flag of the bible and a contradiction of what Love is, then I don't know what else to argue about after that. I personally don't believe in any of this, but I have been through it, and I'm free from fairy tales. Don't mind my sarcasm. It's not meant to disrespect you but rather express my way of thought. One thing I did learn is that delusional people are happier than people like me who think logically, and sometimes I wish I could go back because I fight with depression in this life
Not Robots: total Batas that love to be in chains and enjoy beings YHWHs slaves for eternity.
Capable of free will for useful decision making, in terraforming new planets, but totally in love with being slaves. A.I. replaces the meat based humans and mkst likely the 'church' rapture is the end of humanity on Earth... What is left lover will be cyborgs, genetically engineered creatures containing human minds, and all computer based A.I. to be deleted when Earth is destroyed by the Messiah.
Frank always does an excellent job 👍
Only if you care nothing for valid logic. Only if you care nothing for how biblically informed atheists, like me, could trounce him seven times over in a debate.
@@barryjones9362 I doubt that 😂
@@hotrodmtf so yer a skeptic, good start!
@@barryjones9362 not hardly mister, I know who created me :)
@@hotrodmtf The Mormons tell me the same, and i also dismiss it as nothing but religiously fervent delusion. What are you gonna say next? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, you' d never have quit smoking?
I think it is very selfish for anyone to question the creation of something else by God just because it could tempt them. It's like a man questioning why God created a lady so beautiful if He knew that the man would be tempted..I think that's a spoiled brat right there! They only want what is good for them to exist, and good can not exist for any other purpose unless it is designed to just benefit them. That's very selfish!
joshua massawe I asked this question in bible study. Not because I am selfish, I was genuinely curious. I was a new Christian and reading my Bible everyday and when we got on the topic of the temptation in the garden I asked. The same answer above was given and made so much sense to me. I say all that because it’s ok for us to ask questions about God. How else can people come to Christ and know who He is without asking questions. I ask questions to God all the time and also in bible studies. Be blessed
@@719leslie719 I understand dear Leslie. I see that I may have overlooked the possibility of someone asking that just out of well intended curiosity rather than selfishness.
But in of itself isn't it selfish of God wanting him to have free willing people to love him. To create and knowingly know the outcome and damn the ones to hell for not accepting. I understand the whole point of having the option to choose between him and yourself. (I'm saying "yourself" bc that's mainly the reason ppl go to hell for their own love to what "sins" they feel pleasure with) But God knowingly creates Lucifer, creates man and woman, creates Eden with forbbiden fruit, knows that trillions of people are about to be affected in eternity in either heaven or hell. Majority in hell. I don't look at it from a religious pov when I have this topic. I look at it from a secular pov. To me that in itself is evil to know the majority of people you create, will go to hell. Just so the few that don't will worship him. He could of literally the same test in this life without a hell to fear and just make you non existencing after not deciding to love him. But then you don't get many people actually caring about it in fact I'm willing to bet that he would get far less souls than he's getting in heaven. Again I'm looking at it from a secular. I've been to church and honestly get kick out for asking these questions.
@@719leslie719 uh... because God doesn’t create
to serve you but to serve Him?!?!?!?!?!?!?
The Creator and Owner of all including u
Well you know YHWH wanted humans to be disobedient which is why he favors Cain over Abel.
Able was a total suck up, Cain dropped him because Abel had it coming... Abel killed all those animals and didn't care for the blood he shed. Cain One Uped him by taking him out. YHWH Blessed and protected Cain with a special sign so no one would harm him.
This story is analogous to a doctor poisoning his patient so that he can administer the antidote and proclaim what a great doctor he is!
No, God didnt poison the "patient"
Inside His checkup room, He told the patient not to touch anything. The patient, Adam, decided to take the poison himself.
@@Sawa607 Your analogy is wrong. The poison wasn't the apple, but human nature. Humans had the potential and inclination to sin before they ate the apple - that is why they ate the apple in the first place. God set humans up to fail because he knew in advance before he created them, that no human would be capable of living up to his expectations. Of course I don't believe any of this actually happened. I'm just pointing out the things you have to believe if you believed the bible was true
@@xaindsleena8090 apple 👀 who said it was an apple, you see how fallible you are to make assumptions 🧐, now if you made that error how are you sure you're not in error concerning your eternal salvation.
No, more like 10,000,000,000 hostages put in a mortal contest like hunger games, and the best 144,000 that finish the race first win the goal of being slaves for all eternity & they are joyful about it.
I love the answer and his reaction
God gave us free will but threaten us with eternal torment if we choose any other path i life.
Yeah it’s not really free will if you think about it.
Spot on brother! You cannot have love without free will...
So God knew they would disobey but then wont forgive them for their very human mistake. Instead he allegedly has his son killed for someone elses mistake not that that is a crime in itself.
This is a very good question. And a very good response
The first thing we obtain as humans is free will. Given free will we are going to choose things that are good and bad. This is a story explaining that to us. This duality of experience takes a very long time to evolve out of however time is infinite.
0:15 you just Strawmanned his question within 15 seconds by inserting the word "could". Not just he created a world where they could disobey. He also created after knowing they W.O.U.L.D DISOBEY.
I mean, if they didn't disobeyed, then he knew they would obey as well
@@_.incredible_magnum._291 right but would that situation cause the question to need to be asked?
@@EmberBright2077 what do you mean?
@@_.incredible_magnum._291 so if God caused the situation where we wouldn't sin, would we need to ask the question why he would do so, since the answer would be clear?
@@EmberBright2077 what he tries to say is that god knows what happens when it happens but like in the past, so he knows what u had for breakfest because u ate it today but he knows it 2000 years ago because u had it today and he saw it, so now he knows it 2000 years ago aswell, because he doesnt have past or present or future its more like a map where he can see all at the same time when it happens, you still decide what happens or what u eat today but he knows as soon it happens. hope it makes sense, but for us humans time stuff is always mind breaking
"he that heareth let him hear, and he that forebeareth let him forebear..."
Well answered sir💖💖💖
I like the answer, Dr. Frank gave. You could also say that God loves his creation and so wants to be loved openly and freely without any conditions. God does and does not want controlled robots/slaves by default.
Neither we want to be robots
Nor did God want us as robots
It’s a mutual agreement/covenant
So why not create only the ones that will accept God, instead of creating both that will accept him and those that won't? Why create a bunch of people knowing they'll send themselves to hell?
God gives us free will so we can be with him forever.
Why would you want to be with him forever?
@@rockhead1731 because God is love.
@@jacobshank7336 And because God is love, he deliberately set up Adam and Eve to fail, just so he could punish all of humanity? How does that kind of sadistic tyrany equate to love?
@@rockhead1731
"Why would you want to be with him forever?"
Love is what atheists really don't understand.
@@fsdfmsbcxx Does your god show love when he kills people?
One of many fables in the bible that doesn't make any sense. Like the horrific act of telling Abraham to murder his son to test his faith. So wretchedly immoral on so many levels
It goes to show that even the most illogical of stories designed to present an ultimate moral deity is a story that can be spun to make sense if a belief in that deity is absolutely required to avoid the prospect of eternal torture.
@@jacksfavorite4808 right. The threat of a hell, the carrot of a heaven = obedience
Its to mirror God sacrificing his son as a lamb. God did what he tested abraham with. Sacrifice his son as a lamb so we can have salvation. There are so many hints about this.
@@theangryslav9115 so he toyed with Abraham. It didn't have any genuine significance. He was cruel
@@lawrenceeason8007 'toyed' your ways arent his ways. He wouldnt let him kill him anywah just a lesson, test of faith and a foretelling of Jesus.
Dr. Frank Turek work is one of the most challenging; please pray for him
We are not slave,,we are the sons and daughters of God,,and he loves us more than anything in the world.
All these purported "mysteries" and "controversies" become MUCH easier to process when you realize the stories behind them simply...aren't...true. Trust me guys it's not that difficult lol.
humans are easy to manipulate
You can make anything mystical if you ask a lot of in depth questions about it.
👍👍👍
I wish everyone who is asked this question can answer it this way, short and direct to the point!
God is not a tyrant. GOD gave freedom to His people to choose to be good and bad servants.He is our Creator.God is the judge.He is just.
We shall rethink the attributes of our Lord.
God deliberately set up Adam&Eve to fail. God knew prior to creating Adam&Eve what would happen, he then deliberately took action to put them in a situation where they would fail, solely for the purpose to punish all of humanity. That doesn't just make him a tyrant, but a sadistical tyrant.
God wants to see who belongs to Him I guess
this is the most simple answer!
Which rules out Free Will.
God is all knowing, he already knows who is with him. Why not only create those people in the first place?
If you wanted to surround yourself with killer robots, wouldn't you also want to know you could trust all of them completely to do anything you say and obey all orders, without question ?
What if the tree was only metaphorical? It's a tree that we all go to every day.
F Kua
Because the whole myth is based on it and many theists or fundamental creationists take it literally and not allegorically.
The point is u have what's call a "juice". It's not a myth it's a choice. And if u have choices than you are free. GOD made good trees and bad trees, it's your choice to choose but HE had warned you.
So, even "to sin" was purposely designed by God in order for man to want to find God. Is that correct?
If I caught my 2 yr old daughter eating a cookie out of the jar, even though I commanded her not to, the first thing I would do is look around for any talking snakes that may have tempted her, but it must have slithered away… I see that I left the jar open on the ground, with a trail of permitted candies leading up to it, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. To emphasize the point of my daughter’s betrayal, I will destroy every toy she owns and kick her out of the house naked and afraid. Oh, and she is NEVER welcome back.I keep telling her I love her more than anything and this is the only possible action I can do. I mean, I can’t have a child around in my kingdom that disobeys me! The fact that she is a child, still learning, not fully understanding how to make decisions and how to stem her curiosity… irrelevant! I will also have to be sure that any future family she has also doesn’t get any toys.
The fact that I have foresight and KNEW she would take the cookies if I put the jar on the ground is no excuse for her betrayal. She is now a heathen, and I will be invisible to her but also expect her full devotion.
BECAUSE I LOVE HER.
Let God be God. Stop all these questioning and interrogation of God, as if God was a man to be brought before a jury.
Well said... He is all knowing..He knows best...
I accuse your god of not existing..
I think we have to ask questions. They are the related to our doubts, I think God would rather us ask than marinate in our doubts. I think the motive of the questions is what one has to consider.
Questioning, inquiry...the poison for religion.
This YHWH fella is charged with planetcide, genocide, child abuse, & creation of violent invasive species...
How do you plead ?
He?!! She took from the tree!! Not he!
It's beacue he was thinking of Steve, not Eve 👍
The sin was to eat and he did eat. He was the leader. He wasnt supposed to eat or follow someone he was supposed to cover
@@ertfgghhhh exactly. Adam DID eat still. The young man has some ignorance (hence him calling the tree evil rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil) so it makes sense why he immediately went to Adam. We are indeed fallen in Adam (before Christ saved(s) us) not fallen in Eve nor fallen in Adam and Eve, but just in Adam the representative of ALL of mankind.
@@nikketasnowden yes.........i feel ya
And all knowledge isnt good knowledge
@@ertfgghhhh amen. I know i was replying yo you, but that was just me agreeing with you. Most of that was for the others in the comment thread.
It's not up to us to choose God. God does the choosing, not man. When God calls us, we come. When God chooses us, how can we say no? Where do we get the power to oppose God? He is God, we are His creation, not the other way around. He is in charge of everything. He knows the outcome even before He calls or chooses. He decides who comes and who doesn't. Are we the creators of our life and death, our beginning and end? Trust me, if God calls you, you are coming, like it or not. God created Adam and Eve as imperfect beings. He knew what would happen with the tree and the fruit. He knew the start and also knows the end. He wills that all men be saved, and saved they will be, each in their order. Who can stop Him? He created the devil, a lair from the start, God created him. He created man and will form him in His image and likeness however long it takes. The timing is His, not ours. His reasons will be revealed to all of mankind when we become like Him.
Amen!
Hmmmm he wants us to be able to choose for ourselves Not be forced to do the right thing. Message!
lol last question frank shouldve just said "yes"
How anybody could believe this mess. God creates people knowing they are going to sin...and creates them anyway. He creates them his way...so he is responsible for our shortcomings, yet he burns people for eternity for the shortcomings he created. Evil god
So every time you did something wrong it was because God made you do it?? What are you 5?! 😂
@@youngnixx88788 in a way. If god put sinful nature into people at birth, then yes he is responsible. If you put sin into people, then you will get sin out
@@youngnixx88788 it takes an adult to understand that I guess
@@lawrenceeason8007
God didn't put sinful nature in man, man did than himself.
I guess it a lesson on personal accountability to understand that
@@youngnixx88788 of course god put sin in man. We didn't do it:
Psalm 51:5
5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me."
We have no control of any sin in our birth. No control whatsoever. So god is responsible for sin in us
Love without freewill is a LOGICAL contradiction in THIS world. If God is all powerful, and God created logic, he could have created a world where love without freewill does not contradict. Therefore saving part of his creation from hell (assuming he would want to do that). He is powerful enough to do this correct? Why didn't he?
Lack of pursuit makes us ask shallow questions. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but once we decide to really know God and accept him we realize more and more how childish some questions we had were lol. But he understands us, but we gotta make our part and accept him ;)
childish question ? heh ; because of that thing you are mortal now according to bible ; it's childish ? first adam was immortal ;'then adam become mortal after he ate fruit ; so it's childish that you live in misery ? clown ...
you don't even use mind when you are reading those verses ; what does it really means ;
Either God is not merciful and loving or, God does not have the ability to create a world that has an optimum environment for human well-bring and prosperity. And even if Adam and Eve disobeyed God, that should have no relationship to other people. That violates the notion that every individual is an independent entity unto himself. In other words, the reasoning behind the entire Biblical premise is terribly flawed. It is as though the concept was concocted by a very human culture centuries ago that was not yet privy to modern enlightenment.
Tim Janson-- No your worldview is terribly flawed
@@StandForTruth205 How is my worldview flawed, specifically?
Pray and read the bible.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
Sounds to me like he intentionally set them up for failure, in other words "all according to his plan"
I finally Found a smart person
@@whyimihere5999 💯facts
Thank you
Sometimes my impression is to live with GOD is to be chosen, but to reject GOD is by free will...
I strongly agree.
@Noah G. His name is Zebaoth... He loves you 💓✝️🛐
What an idotic answer. Why create a tree that will be a direct temptation? Just don't create the tree and remove the temptation all together, doesnt the Bible say not to tempt ur Children in proverbs. Frank dummkoff Turk
The tree was never an issue or temptation until Satan made it an issue.
@@camonly849 well brilliant so the creator allows his creature to violate his garden and put adam and eve in such a bind. Do u realize how that sounds?
@captainmarvelmsc7692 I was just pointing out that you were mistaken saying the tree was the temptation, when it wasn't.
Either way they made the decision etc. However I think the better question is why didn't God just choose someone who would have listened to him.
@@camonly849 actually that is not a mistake, it compounds the problem even more.
@captainmarvelmsc7692 you said the tree was a temptation.....but it wasn't lol.
If you place a man in a room with no windows and you command him not to open the window how is he to disobey your? Where is his freedom of choice? Without choice there is no freedom.
It was His Eternal Purpose
Ephesians 3:9-11
A story where two people had no knowledge of right and wrong prior to picking fruit from the tree of knowledge and they're punished. Makes a lot of sense.
Because EVERY THING was right and
All was good. After they DISOBEYED
they began to know evil starting from
realizing their nakedness. Or maybe
you’re just dum, and this makes no
sense to your tiny ltl steroided brain.
@@falsehoodbasher7240
Really bonehead? And you believe this fairy tale? Not too bright are you?
@@todbeard8118 VERY bright
too bright for you himbo
@@falsehoodbasher7240
So I take it you believe in talking snakes and donkeys, huh genius?
We've all heard of the tale of the talking snake in the garden with Adam and Eve. And some have heard of Balaam's talking donkey in Numbers22:21-39 and you're likely goofy enough to believe that nonsense aren't you?
I take it you think the old sitcom with Mr. Ed, the talking horse, was based on a true story...
I know....It's all too bright for me.
Christians are very good at BSing themselves and each other.
@@falsehoodbasher7240
Try learning how to spell "dumb" slick. Hint.... It's not spelled "dum".
You're not the brightest bulb in the chandelier are you?
Then how do you explain revelation then? Where he creates a new earth where there is no sorrow, no death, no pain. That would be a world without freedom because then everyone would just be happy and do good deeds all the time. That’s completely contradictory to what we discussed here
The point is you choose your freedom by becoming slave if God forever as you born to be and His precious child that will love Him and He you forever. That free will is all about. Yes at the end you loose it because you have chose Good and you are transformed into Light as God is truly being made in His image just like remaining Angels. Just like it is written there is no Night or Dat there because God is their Light
by why create that tree tho? he still havent answered that question.
I love the LORD....
Best answer
Love without forgiveness is failure but trust without negotiation is foolish.
lol ; without forgivness ? lol ;
there's no need if adam/eve were immortals ; do you see flaws there ? where's you brain ? it fall of your head ?
first adam/eve were immortals and they weren't need of forgivness ; and that's flaw in your head ; there's some holes in it ;
if god didn't made an evil thing and snake in the garden and put them front of poor adam/eve ; we would have been immortals according to your book ; but nope ; yo uare saying something stpdity xddd ;
god made adam/eve mortal ; it's was him not adam/eve ; and sin and evil things exists because of him not because us ; we do evil yes ; but it was him who put front of adam/eve an evil tree which caused adam/eves mortality the tree which been made up by god and also snake with it ;
but you people don't use your brain ;
answer yourself you clown ;
would you make atomic bomb in the garden where your little children live ? and would you put the button which is wakling around front of them ? which will seduce them ? will you do those things to your children you clown ? and after you will call yourself just kind and loving father ? will you do to your children such things ? when you know the result before you will do ? and after the button will seduce them will you kick them out of your house you clwn ? and after that you will call yourself good and loving father ?
Free will ❣️
There comes a time when children grow up and need to stand on their own. Sometimes it takes a push from the parents.
You are literally from another world
We here thinking why we disobey god
And YOU : Yeah we disobeyed god
I agree with the standpoint on the ability to choose God. But eternal damnation for an inbuilt flaw is doesn’t resonate with the label of “most merciful”
Humans freely choose it, he just allows it, its not like God created hell.
So ONE person screws up and ruins it for BILLIONS of other innocent people. Yeah, sure. That is logical. NOT! I think God made a mistake and is learning from it. He DID say that "he was sorry that he made mankind." To be sorry that you did something IS ADMITTING that you made a mistake. Use some critical thinking folks and dont believe everything you read.
Could God claim to have given us free will if we are never given an opportunity to exercise our will?
If someone told you that your are free to go to the door on the left, but the only door that existed was on the right; was you ever given a chose? This is why the tree had to be created even though God knew Eve would eat from it. It is an act of love to allow your children the break your heart.
god works in mysterious ways
😂
Because he enjoys our suffering
There was free will in heaven and Lucifer rebelled.
There was free will on earth and Adam and Eve sinned.
Is there going to be free will in heaven to make our own choices?
No there will only be robots in heaven.
God is good
The bible says with the temptation God made a way of escape. What people don't realize is God provided the out. Answer is the Tree of Life. All they had to do is eat from the Tree of Life first and ball game is over. That's why Satan came before they did.
Bingo! They could still eat from a tree, just not the one God directly commanded them not to. God gave us free will and it was their choice but He always guides us in the process.
Easy answer. For his glory. God through salvation in Christ is more glorious to us in the face of evil in the same way that light is more brilliant when contrasted with darkness.
Glory To GOD!!!
Thank you for sharing this!
There must be opposition in all things.
In a divided world yes, in a perfect world not really.
How did Adam & Eve know it was wrong before eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Also, if they already had knowledge of good and evil the. was what the point of the tree of good and evil? They could’ve done something else “sinful”.
If you didn't know it was illegal, would it be okay to murder?
God literally told Adam to not eat the fruit because Adam would die.
@@davidnewhart2533 what’s the point of the tree of knowledge of good and evil if their god is already telling them what’s right and wrong? Did Adam and Eve have a concept of good and evil already? If not then god telling they will die is moot. If you were tell a 6 month old child not to do something but they don’t understand the concept then it’s pointless.
@@hewhositsuponfroggychair5722 it’s the question of legality. It’s a question of knowledge and being held accountable for something that you don’t understand.
If God knows the infinite result of our free will then we are still nothing but software to him
This answer doesn't satisfy. Why create it? So we can only send ourselves to hell? Why create a hell? Why not just make us nonexistent after we die and that would be enough punishment. Reward the good still with heaven, but why the extent of burning for eternity as punishment? And also god knows us already, he knows we will sin and go to hell. I have a daughter and i would never burn her even if lied to me. I would never cause her ever lasting pain.
God creates humans because it is better than if there were none. God didn't create hell, hell is just the absence of God, which humans can freely choose to exist without him. It is not justice if the person doesn't suffer, so he wouldn't just make you nonexistent. Humans can being without god, so thats not really god punishing humans, but really just allowing them to do what they want. Humans will sin, but god has mercy and compassion, so unless you die with a moral sin and not repentant then you won't go to hell. Not all people who lie go to hell.
I believe Jesus said to judah? That it would be better if he weren't born. I would rather not exist if my existence would be sending myself to hell for not believing in a God who makes me along with everyone else if he even exists.
*guess if he even exists.
Finally it makes sense
If god knew they would eat the fruit so how do they have free will if their actions were already predetermined? Unless god didn't know they would eat the fruit and that would make him a god who doesn't know everything
God doesn't exist in time, so him knowing something will happen isn't because its predetermined, he already knows because he exists when that happens.
Freewill isn't a bad thing to have as long as nothing you do is considered evil. The using it to do evil is when it becomes a bad thing to have. Then you add a severe penalty that is beyond a punishment that humans could ever understand. For using your freewill to commit evil then it becomes something that humans shouldn't have and would be better off just being robots.
The question should be why is the penalty for rejecting God (which is death) so cruel? Not just for Christians but for everyone as we ALL die....Is the answer that God cannot have creatures like us chosing to reject him for eternity, so our lives are short and that those who do reject him for eternity, are eternally banned from his presence?
They condemn themselves, they don't want to be with god so they get enteral separation from him.
Amen.
Amen!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🕊️✨✝️✝️👏
Why God didn't use his foreknowledge to create only people he foreknew that would truly worship him? That way he wouldn't be violating anybody's Freewill.
God would still create them even though they would not choose him because of several reasons, god loves them, they will create more people who love god, they will contribute some good to the world, they are apart of his plan ect. Really there are so many reasons that I am sure the smartest being to exist would have more than enough reason.
I would much rather not exist, than be subjected to eternal torture and damnation for eternity because God didn't make himself known to me. It just makes no sense why no one knows if he's real or not....why wouldn't he make it painfully obvious that he exists? If we all knew and believed in him none of us (in theory) would go to hell. I don't want to go to hell, but I also don't know if God is real or not.
@@camonly849 yeah i agree i would rather not exist then to spend eternity in hell. I guess god would rather play silly games basing or destinations on what we believe instead what we know to be true.
@@alphazero5614 that sounds so Christian/biased of you.
@kareemdavis1500 ya idk what the deal is. People in the Bible times knew God existed. We don't get that luxury.
But couldn't an omnipotent creator make humans with free will that ultimately choose obedience?
The choice to disobey is one thing, but making humans KNOWING that your 'code' will rebel is like a programmer writing a virus into the system, then blaming and punishing the system when it breaks...
Your question seems contradictory. There has to be options in order for choice to exist
The short answer is yes, so logically the next question would be... why didn't God do this??...well, if He made us with this knowledge which He did, then there must be a good reason for allowing this, otherwise it would be exactly what you described.
When we begin to understand the purpose for creation in the first place, then we can understand why He did it this way....so, the whole purpose of creation is redemption. God created us this way to show that His love and grace isn't limited or cheap, rather it's priceless and unique, unlike any other in existence ....
He can actually allow us to go wrong and still display His love and grace by coming to save us .. I don't think God could have shown us this great depth of His love and grace.... as He has done in Jesus' death for us.
It's hard to imagine what could be a greater display of love.... than God coming in the Son to die for us, His enemies!
That really is the definition of love...and without enemies, ie sinners there is nobody to whom this sort of amazing love could be displayed.
Now.... God doesn't need the presense of sin to show His goodness, however the presense of sin shows Him to be good in ways, it's absence cannot.... so by permitting sin in this world, it provides a context for God to show the depths of His love and His amazing grace and mercy, that simply couldn't be shown in a world without sin..it also shows He can overcome anything.
Now, remember God knows how everything works out in the end and He obviously knew before deciding to create, so of course it's all to His glory. Sin is not the final result of creation, but only part of it, bringing us to a greater outcome in the end, by experiencing this fallen world, it will led us to a better experience with God in eternity, because we will genuinely love Him and we will know for sure that He genuinely loves us back...if He is willing to die for us His enemies.
If He started with the new earth without sin, how would we ever really know just how loving, righteous and forgiving God truly is?.. So rather than just knowing theoretically... by allowing us to experience and see sin, we can see the contrast between sin's destructiveness and God's goodness.
In a world without sin, we would always have been left questioning amd wondering, just how loving and merciful He really is.. if we had never seen sin's destructiveness, it could only be known theoretically, however by experiencing the contrast, it gives us more appreciation for the contrast.
God created this world so that He could come and redeem it and show how humble and gracious He is, showing us exactly why He is God and why there is no other like Him. He is so loving and righteous that He would rather die Himself, than kill His enemies...only God can display this unbelievable act.
However He would never create and allow us to go through anything, that He wasn't prepared to go through Himself...
His only reason for permitting sin is because He was prepared to come and face the consequences Himself for us.
He allowed sin and suffering, but He faced the wrath of sin along us and for us so we can't accuse Him of being unfair.. He is righteous, and would never create this way and allow sin unless He was going to perfectly restore and redeem it ...what's also important to note is, this fallen earth is not the final outcome... in the end all evil and suffering is destroyed and God's perfect love and righteousness restored.
@@mykingofkings1439 Hey man, just wanted to say that i have been struggling a bit lately with this question and you really cleared it up for me and made me a stronger believer. Amen.
@@mykingofkings1439 Can i ask how you learned this much about god? Are you a preacher or "just" christian that does alot of research?
@@jacotay2827The deeper you go the more you learn and in His timing of course so patience is huge key and enduring perseverance in persecutions. And right here you have one of the most important questions and depths of God answered that many unfortunately even to this day ask but you will be wonderful testimony to them now because you have learned. What men gave you have here is Gem 💎 itself and you have ears to obtain it I congratulate you for willing to face and accept the Truth and Truth have made you free. No men has revealed this to you but God himself
I feel god just wanted his angels to play their version of "checkers" using humans as the chips
God wants relationships, not robots.
The tree didn’t need to be there for God to have relationships with Adam and Eve.
Power of choice.