I agree.. I honestly believe there are some things we will never understand and is not meant for us to understand. God said his ways are not our ways and even the most wisest among us barely touches the surface of Gods infinite wisdom.
@@MaD-hp9hq What? I never said ANYTHING about "standards of evidence" in this thread. What are you even responding to? I have the right to speak anywhere I want to, and there is nothing you can do about it. You will just have to grow up and get over yourself.
@@nicholasflamel1134 What, you don't remember me? And sure, you can say what you please, but you can't be justified in criticizing theism as you just have when your own epistemology is fallacious. If you remember me from the other thread, you ought to know that if you deny this, I will debate you on the topic, because you have demonstrated already that it is the truth. You cannot verify your sense-perceptions empirically, because empirical evidence comes forth from sense-perception. I won't accept your question-begging and then criticizing others as if your standard of knowledge is coherent.
It's so nice to hear a Pastor say "I don't know"! So many pastors have too much "pride" to say that... Wise words from a wise man... Obviously enlightened by The Holy Spirit! All glory to The Most High God! Let your heart not be troubled. God's plan is invaluable, and He is in TOTAL CONTROL! Keep the faith and keep fighting the good fight! God bless and take care...
GodBless AndTakeCare, I know how it all came about, firstly you have to understand logic. Everything you know about Lucifers fall, I feel it’s all wrong, just remember the person talking in this video is for the first time telling the truth. That’s because he does not know the logical way of understanding it. So only you understand logic will you know how he fell. Then I can explain the whole thing.
@@lt7227 * Hello my friend, and thank you for taking the time to reply... You have definitely peaked my curiosity. Please continue... I'll send you my email address if you would rather not go into detail on a public forum... God bless you and yours my friend, and take care...
GodBless AndTakeCare hi how’s it going, firstly I would like to say thank you very much for the reply. You sound like a very good person. Ok just so I know who I’m talking to could you please tell me a bit about your self. I am a father of 3 married and live in Australia. I love these type of topics and I feel I know a lot, like some of the things I’ll tell you, will either shock you or Amaze you. This is why I mentioned before that you have to understand logic, so please if you can tell us s bit of your self.
@@lt7227 Hello again and greetings from Las Vegas Nevada, USA, my brother in Christ! I'm 55 and have 2 boys 35 and 30, and have a story that Hollywood wouldn't believe. I can go into more detail later if you're interested. My email is as follows. 777GBATC777@GMAIL.COM Thank you, friend. I hope to hear from you soon... God Bless And Take Care
@@goudagirl6095 Can you PROVE the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist? No? I guess you must believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster then, right? That is YOUR logic after all, isn't it? That is NOT how logic and reason works. There is no reason to believe in things you have ZERO evidence for just because you can't prove they are NOT real. Otherwise you would have to believe in every crazy thing anyone ever suggested the existence of. Use your brain.
@Nicholas Flamel why would anybody want to prove the existence of the flying spaghetti monster??Unless you worship it as a deity or define it as your god!? we know atheists aren't that stupid
My answer to this, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29 ESV
Preaching the gospel-that person cursing God (capitol G) should be cursing the adversary not God. Why is someone on this channel in the first place? There are no coincidences......God be with you always. 🙏🏼❤️😊
John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it Was Saran not created from the beginning EVIL. GOD created Satan perfectly, thus God God created him Evil. Why did God created him Evil? If God did not then we would not know what GOOD was. Your comments appreciated
SuperLineman77 If you don’t believe in him why are you in this video? Everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. He has come to save us yet you won’t receive him or do u believe in him?
SuperLineman77 it’s nonsense in your opinion, but in the return of Jesus remember what you have said today.And I’m not ending anything I’m starting, there is no reason I should end religion just bc something bad happened bc of religion. And ppl who believe in god don’t make rules they follow the rules that’s set and it’s called the 10 commandments. But remember there is no forgiveness if u aske when he arrives bc you should’ve been prepared first.
Lucifer was created too beautiful, too wisdomized, too perfect, too powerful that he himself was too impressed... having free will to either stay faithful to God or just do his own thing he decided to serve himself... and convince 1/3 of the Angelic Realm to do the same thing.... We on earth practice exactly the same thing.... 🙏
@@dejesus47 Sad but so very true... One huge difference though.. God sent us as human beings a SAVIOR,,, NO SAVIOR for the fallen Angles... Unfortunately for them its game over upon christ second coming........ While we humans can repent........ If we choose to......
I’ve thought about this question before as well. My only logical answer I could think of is that god also tested his angels in heaven by allowing them to know what the opposite of good was. Not by anyone’s actions but just the knowledge of it in their mind. God never has sinned but I’ve always thought that maybe he just allowed them to know what evil is so that they could be tested by having a free will choice to choose if they ever wanted to commit any of it.
That would be consistent with how God runs things and it's accepted that this is most likely why he will let out Satan to deceive the Nations once more after the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus. Angels have free will like humans do and I'll bet they went through the same thing and Satan was likely that "fruit" for the 1/3. What led Satan to do it though? The most accepted answer is his pride in his beauty and power. But it's true that no concrete explanation is spoken upfront.
You read in the bible that Satan wanted to rule over the mercy seat , not just protect it, he was a Cheribum (was to protect the mercy seat,), he was made quite beautiful , and with free will ..he decided he wanted to be like like God..his pride was the first sin..he was thrown out and took 1/3 with him..he is still being held until the time he is kicked from heaven.
Idk.. I feel like why let the angels know there is an alternative when they have no known thought. Thats like having sex for the first time.. You're gonna wanna keep on trying it, but when you were a kid, u had no knowledge of the feeling.. idk, this is too much when we gotta keep playing the guessing game 😢
Deutronomy 29:29The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. Enough has been shown to us for our salvation through Christ and Gods love to humanity, to see that no one perish in foolishness.
This is addressed to humans so its the children of the humans. Take your body for example you go to the doctor for he or she knows the body better that you. Its is the same with the mysteries of God. A teacher of the law of moses by the name Nicodemus comes to Jesus with questions and at last this is what Jesus says to him, I have told you of earthly things and you do not understand what if I told you of heavenly things. Look up Alan Horvath- All Graven images and also Demonic Stronghold by him also. To know God you focus your mind or thoughts on God and thats why David said may the meditaion of my heart and the words of my mouth be acceptable in thy sight. The more you seek and read God's word the more you behold God's beauty and excellence.
God is so good that someone (lucifer, a high powerful angel) wanted God's position. God is so good and allowed Himself to be challenged. Being challenged permitted Him to show parts of His character -- merciful, forbearance, forgiveness...
Dana Smith I dont think God needs to create a challenger to challenge him to bring out his characters other than love. God is all knowing. U make it seem like God learns as he goes, which is very very wrong thing to think
Satan rebelled against God for a reason. You don't just decide you want someone's power and authority without an explanation. You usually want it because you disagree, you have better ideas or because that person has done you wrong. Does God not inflict pain onto others? God isn't exactly what he's cracked up to be if you ask me. For someone who's so perfect, he's pretty selfish and lazy. For someone who knows all he's quite the piece of shit.
Here’s my thoughts on matter. The original Sin was born from taking something that is good in its original form but when one delves to much of something even if it’s good originaly then that good become evil. For example wanting to provide for your family because you love them- good Robbing a bank in hoping to provide them a good life and education. - good now evil Satan may have wanted to attain power and wealth which Itself may not be a bad thing. But when his desire for power makes him want to equal God his actions become sinful
Thanks for your insight into this issue. I myself have been struggling over this issue for some time now. Yes, it looks as though by God hiding Himself from Satan and not letting His light shine upon him led to Satan’s act of evil. But if that is true, then it means that Satan had the capacity to commit evil in him all along. If this is so then evil has always been here but kept under control by God. Does this then mean that free will is what allows evil to exist. It would seem so. It is ultimately our choices that determine who we are and our eventual salvation or demise. The bigger question is why didn’t all of the Angels join Satan in his rebellion if evil was and is in all of them? It doesn’t make sense that only Satan and one third of the Angels rebelled. None of it makes sense to me. This question about evil remains unanswered for me. I am trusting in the Lord that it will all be revealed in the end, or not. Nonetheless, I remain steadfast in my faith in God that He is in control. Praise His name
Yes, it's almost like, on some fairly key topics about the origin of evil, and of free will the book has, ah, OMISSIONS? That might have been usefully examined, compared to pagetime spent on the game with Solomon, Samuel, and all those dead children and livestock?
All I will say is IF God CREATED EVIL 👿, then how could ANY PART OF CREATION ESCAPE IT??? I’ve often believed that, because God is Sovereign & Sinless the INSTANT that God created another being SIN came into existence simultaneously & synonymously, because According to the Biblical Scriptures, EVERY CREATURE THAT GOD CREATED CANNOT JUDGE NOR DESTROY GOD, because God is Omnipotent, Omniscient & Omnipresent & was here BEFORE EVERYTHING!!! I can go further, but……..NAH!!! There’s no need!!! I really hope this & many other Biblical UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES will be FULLY explained at some point in time!!! But for the record what I think is that God is the CREATOR of EVERYTHING INCLUDING EVIL, because IF God didn’t create evil, then GOD IS NOT OMNI!!!!
It is a mystery and I believe it will be revealed in the end. Many things will be revealed in the end that are mysteries to us now. Maybe it’s hidden because our brains cannot comprehend certain things that God does and can do. I believe the Lord hides things from us that he does not want us to know. He doesn’t have to reveal everything to us. I also don’t think it’s for us to worry or be concerned about. The only thing we should be concerned with is spreading the gospel and help in gathering souls. Praise the Lord. All I know is that the Lord is sovereign.
To some this may be heresy but my personal belief is that the voice of the devil was implanted to test humanity. I believe that creation is an experiment, not a determined outcome. I completely reject determinism as it is incompatible with free will.
I think this best way to wrap our minds around this is to propose this question, how do you know if someone loves you without the ability to hate/disregard you? How do you define true allegiance without the ability to rebel? This is why free will exists. Ezekiel shows the prideful fall of Satan. Pride ALWAYS separates from God. Why does God allow this, I believe Romans 9:20-22 helps. 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? But God judged the angels right away....why? Judgement varies based on the degree of revelation. Angels had full revelation from the beginning of who God is. Every demon knows who Jesus is when they see him. We operate on faith: the hope of things longed for the certainty of things unseen. That's why we, the faithful will some day judge even the angels. God never causes evil but allows it to exist because there is no measure of what "good" truly is without it.
Angels, humans, and sin have not existed forever. God has been good forever. What you're saying implies that God couldn't be certain he was good until evil came into existence. I think evil is just because of free will.
Shane Hilligoss I'm with you we think alike it has to be an opposite in life otherwise if it was just good it would be heaven on earth God knows what he's doing and everybody will get their answer when God calls for them God bless
Ok I agree with your statement so we are left with free will...so then we choose God, then why doesn't He reveal Himself to us as believers in such a way that would allow us to see CLEARLY what it is we are up against in this life? Instead we are left getting knocked about and left confused and hurt and end up shaking our fist at God because all the promises He makes in His word to be our refuge and our strength etc fail to be seen in our lives...this leaves us despondent and alone and many become so disillusioned with this life that we fall by the wayside ...more damaged and bruised and hopeless than before we came to Him. There is nothing worse than knowing how things 'should' be in Christ but never having that happen for you.. that's worse than staying in the world ignorant of what could be available to you!!!
he was the most beautiful angel God had created. His downfall is when he began to think of himself more than what he was and pride entered into his heart
John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it Was Saran not created from the beginning EVIL. GOD created Satan perfectly, thus God God created him Evil. Why did God created him Evil? If God did not then we would not know what GOOD was. Your comments appreciated
We all understand that. But the question is : since he was fully in the presence of God, fully in his glory, had part of all the infinite benefits of being in the presence of God, and since he was perfectly created with a perfect heart, than how could his first bad desire, his first fault in the things that he desire appear ? God is perfect, His glory is perfect, His purposes are perfect, the happiness and the peace that he provides are perfect. Then how an angel who were perfectly created, in a perfect environment end up having a bias toward evil, that is to say toward something that would destroy him and would make him unhappy, instead of keeping the infinite benefits of being in the presence of God ?
My humble response to that; God foreknew satan's fall. God allowed it to happen. And this sets up our free will. We aren't robots to the Lord. He doesn't want that. God wants us to to come to Him. Once satan sinned, then Adam, we can choose right or wrong. From satans fall, and Adams, we are locked into the first covenant. I feel that even from this whole thing, God knows us, and what we will do. And when Jesus Christ came on this Earth to die for us, death was finally obliterated by Jesus. So if you haven't experienced Christ yet, He's always there to save you and transform you're thinking, and you're life.
WILLIAM GOODWIN , in you there are many vessels, some appointed to honor, some to dishonor and wrath. We die daily, this is the truth of death, it has become Victory. Death is swallowed up in Victory! The Word Jesus (Yeshua) means: Yehuah is Salvation. Study The Scripture carefully, beware the doctrines of modern Pharisees. Some Pharisees were good hearted and wise, such as Nicodemus, but still his doctrines were false because he could not believe The Spirit. If I spoke as a man I would speak humbly as Jon Slaten did. I speak not as a man now but rather boast in The Lord. I declare that in Jon Slaten hath The Lord edyfied you William. Hear Him, hear The Lord your God.
Child Boo ,Satan's world has put the concept of cognitive dissonance in your mind to deliberately cause you to fear your own honest thinking. Honest thinking is defined as thinking that agrees in Spirit with The Spirit Of Truth, to agree in flesh with The Spirit Of Truth is to be correct and honest at once. Child Boo, do NOT listen to the ways of the world. They HATE you if you are of Jesus. They would see you never born of Spirit. Trust Jesus the Godman alone. Be careful with Scripture, be careful with preachers, be dead to wisdom so your wisdom may be born new and True, and be dead to the world of lies and thus alive in Christ; for He defeated The World. Believe that defeat and live it.
Just my thoughts on this but I do not claim to have full comprehension of God's mysteries, nor do I claimed absolute truths to my assumption, I only ask for respect if my ideas does not suit to yours. I think the problem is with our definition of "Perfection" for since the Bible says that God created everything perfectly, including the Angels does not mean that all the thoughts and desires that arises since creation are from Him. I think God's definition of perfect is not about the ability of not to do things against Him, but rather the definition of Perfect for God, is the ability to think and act free from the control of God, and that is how God created the Angels and humans and doesn't mean that the desires and actions of these beings are from God. The only thing that differ us from the angels is that God created the angels for specific purpose that at the day He created them He showed them His mysteries, glory and power. And with this great power and responsibility that God had given to them also comes great consequences and that is why God did not offer remission for their sin of rebellion. Their sin is not from God or from anyone but from them it is the result of their choices and will. Since they themselves saw the greatness, power and majesty of God there's no need for someone to convince them about the idea of becoming god, unlike humans where these fallen angels convinced man to become like gods which of course triggered the desire of man to become like one. I believe that God created each of His creation with distinct purposes. For He is the Potter and His creation are His clay, He moulded us perfectly according to our purposes. But he is beyond responsible for our inner desires and inner thoughts for He has given this responsibility to each one of us and we will be held accountable for it, if then God is the author of this desire and thoughts then He would not have hold us accountable for it since it came not from us, but that is not so for He created us prefectly having full control of our own desire, thoughts and will. But He is the all knowing God, thus He know what will happen or what will transpired in the future and He allows it not because He doesn't have care for us but because He saw that this will become a determination of our strength and our faith. We would not know what light is if we would have not seen darkness, we would not know what rest is if we haven't encountered struggle, we would not know good if we haven't seen evil. And if God interfered in our own thought processing and decision making then God himself altered His own creation. Unlike the Angels God offered remission of sins for humans since God have not fully revealed His mystery to us and we being innocent in Gods own eyes and not fully aware of the full consequences of our actions we therefore also fell from grace. God is a just Father seeing His sons not fully aware of their sins therefore God rebuked us and scolded us for our mistakes thus he offered a way and promised to forgive us if only we showed full repentance , faith and trust on Him. But does it mean that we are innocent and must be acquitted for that sin? No we are innocent in a sense of knowing the extent of God's wrath and punishment but we are Not innocent of the actions that we committed for God warned us well of committing those action. We sinned not just because of the lies of satan but also the desire that we had of becoming like gods , and it blinded us from the truth and satan triggered that desire and we fell into his lies. But is God to be blamed for this desires? No God created us perfectly so as to have control of our own thinking, desires and will. Just like when somebody approach you and offered you something so great let say billions of dollars but the offer require that you must break the law for that offer to accomplish, and so by hearing that great offer, this desire within you burned so much that you will do the offer all just because of the desire of having billions of dollars. We humans have an innate nature of possessing greatness for ourselves and God has nothing to do with this and this evil man who gave that offered has no control over your desire and will. but because of your discontentment over what you already have, you desired more and higher thus the evil man persuaded you easily. Because man has the desire of becoming like gods it was easy for satan to persuade man because the desire arises from within the heart of man. Just as how this desire of becoming like gods burned into the inner of mankind so as to the inner of those fallen angels and after they realized that no forgiveness offered to them thus they planned to destroy and pollute other creatures too. God created us (Angels and humans) not unto like robots for robots may seemed to be perfect but it's thinking and actions are dependent on it's programmer. So I think the problem is not with God but our understanding of God and his creation and our comprehension of the definition of Perfection. I maybe wrong about this, but as I struggled for years thinking this question, I prayed oftentimes to God to make me understand the things that I struggle in understanding and this one explanation pop-up in to my mind.
There's a misconception here: evil/darkness isn't a separate "thing" from good - its a resultant description of the privation of good/light. Much like cold isn't anything; its scientifically the privation of heat. So understanding the descriptive from the definitive, can help breakdown the question. There was and is always the capacity in existence - for there to be "will" at all - for privation. That's essentially freewill. For light to exist, a description of notlight must also exist - or discernment & identification cannot occur. All that said, its merely a question of when did Lucifer choose and why? Considerations like "why God made evil" become nonsensical.
I was told that God has the power to foresee the future but does not abuse it when I asked why he created an angel who will turn against him at some point and be labeled Satan the devil.I guess that's how 'free will' comes into the equation.
"I don't know" is a beautifully humble answer here. We're all called to be humble when it comes to accepting there are things we are allowed to know (i.e. what's in the Bible), and recognizing things we have no business sticking our noses in (e.g. divination).
Pastor John says he doesn't know why but I believe he gave us the answer when he said it is because of Gods absence. God wishes that we all love Him with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind 'ALL of the time' even in His absence. I don't know about anyone else but I can feel when God withdraws Himself from me and these times are my hardest, especially when it comes to the temptation of sin. But He does this because this is when He wants us to love and trust in Him more. It is the trials He puts us through to test our love for Him. God be with you, and you with God.
Saying " I don't know is the best explanation? " lol. How about that God ordained evil. And that doesn't make God evil because God makes the rules on what is good and evil. That is the most logical answer. If man did all that slaughtering of people in the old testament without God's say so it would be sinful but if God says you can kill all men and children and keep the women then its perfectly fine. God makes the rules.
IMHO I think God made him so nearly perfect that Satan surmised he was near equal to God. Hubris! So he decided to act similar to God but did not possess His selfless Love for the creation. Only his self agrandisment... praise. Which Only belongs to God...the father of Spirits.
But that is essentially a huge error. It was inadvisable. Surely this could not shock YHWH? He knew the risk. And not just to Him. But to many vulnerable angels, too. Then - humans, also. Even not yet born ones. Defenceless, ones. All so Satan could develop a dangerous mental state?@@jeanalice4732
I loosen all earthly and evil desires from my life, the lives of my family, friends, colleagues, neighbours, acquintances, opponents and the body of Christ, while I loosen myself of every unequal yoke and common share with those who have evil desires, in accordance with colossians 3:5, 2 corinthians 6:14-18 in the name and blood of Jesus Christ, amen and hallelujah!
You should be careful about taking on the sin of people around You. Because then their demons will attack You. You should pray for God to change their heart instead.only God can do that. God bless ❤️🙏🏼
God is in control of everything. It's like figuring out how wind, star, sand, plants etc is created. We can't even unfold these simple things... But, the answer is God... in the Beginning God, he gets glory and we can't seem to accept it. However, he has given us everything we need to know about him. GOD ALONE IS HOLY. No one is powerful like him, he alone is sinless... Perfect! Yeah, that's a God who's worth of praise. Glory be to God. God bless you Pastor Piper. Grace and peace.
God's allowance isn't indicative of causation - think about it: God created Lucifer as the brightest star, the most powerful angel created to bring praise to Him. He led angelic choirs with his gifts to the Most High, and one day - in his heart - he determined he wanted to be higher than the Most High. His free will transformed his desire to praise someone *else* to wishing for the praise to be his own. From then on, we cannot argue that other angels didn't believe that he was powerful. That's why they fell - Lucifer with 1/3rd of the angelic host felt it better to rule in the pit than to praise God in the heavens. That's ego. That's pride. That's the opposite of what God's humility was shown us through Christ. The bible isn't saying God literally hid his face from His creation, rather our will was not for our God. In my honest opinion, it was Lucifer's choice to praise himself. Will is not simply a label; it is what separates us from a pre-programmed machine: we have the choice to create new options for ourselves. The hardening of hearts was based on actions that humanity chose - although the scriptures state God allowed their hearts to be hardened and hardened them Himself, I believe that the Spirit is with me when I say this: the creation made its choice, and just as the bible says God allows the people their desire, even if that desire is not of righteousness, He allows rebellion for a demonstration of His own glory. Summarily, the first sin was pride. Just as we cannot fathom God's love for His creation, we cannot comprehend the depths of angelic emotion - His pride, anger, and hatred is much stronger than any reality we've been exposed to. The answer was given in the bible: You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God;... Isaiah 14:13. Of course, I'm not saying this solves the mystery. Just that I've prayed for clarity on the matter for a long time, and after re-visiting doctrine of both angelic hosts, God Himself, and all that's implied within God's goodness and His grace, there is nothing evil that God has created. Look at the Leviathan and the Behemoth, for example. Grace and peace, my family!
Being created in God's image and having a will is not just a label in my opinion but a reality with vast consequences. Let's say you have a son and a car. Your car is a machine with no will but your son is created in your image and he has a will. If you stayed too long at a mall, your son can walk away but your car won't because it lacks the ability to do so. Now, you can't have a relationship with your car but you can have a relationship with your son. This simple illustration shows us that having a will means you can choose from available options. Can you say there is a good without an evil ? Can you say there is light without darkness ? Can you understand wealth without poverty ? God said 'I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life'. In Isaiah 45:6 -7 ". . . I am the Lord and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things'. Throughout the Scriptures, we see God demanding that we shun evil and pursue righteousness because that is His nature and that is what he wants for us. Since creation began, some (referring to both Angels and men) have chosen evil and have faced the consequence which is God's wrath while some have chosen righteousness and enjoyed the benefit of intimacy with God. Let's look at the example of the Lord Jesus. He was born without sin and lived a sin free life but he was tempted. As a matter of fact, he was led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirt to be tempted by the devil and he overcame. You may not want to agree that good and evil are 'ultimate' realities because it leads to an uncomfortable conclusion about the origin of evil but we must rejoice in the fact that God has given us the power to overcome temptation and live above sin through the Power of the Holy Spirit working in us to discern and reject evil when we see it.
Ayowande Adeyemi I think for the person who feels it necessary to name the name of Calvin you’re somehow Robbing god out of some glory By saying free will is the definition and not just a label that is to maddening assessor data say that you’re free will is only the desire that God gives you to do good supposedly is I guess Edwards seven
Young King Simba True. When a man has an earnest desire to seek his own path outside GOD, and deep in his heart yearns for his own desires, after much admonition, GOD may leave him to his own strong desire (reprobate mind). Very clearly stated in Romans 1. In other words, those whose hearts are hardened already have by their impulses, departed from GOD's will in their heart, and desire strongly their own ways.
I just came across this. I was amazed at the humility and honesty! ♥🙏 I don't know how this popped on my screen while I was browsing cooking clsses. This very question I asked my religion teacher who happened to be a nun as I studied in a convent when I was 8 years old and the nun had no answer so she replied. "If the Bible troubles you don't read it" I never read the bible for then next 22 years! This question is so mysterious & I like to call it dark sided that it kept me away from God for 22 years. I can never forget this question till TODAY! This question took me down memory lane. I loved this answer .. amazing job. Thank you & may God bless you for what you do 🙏
John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it Was Saran not created from the beginning EVIL. GOD created Satan perfectly, thus God God created him Evil. Why did God created him Evil? If God did not then we would not know what GOOD was. Your comments appreciated
Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."
This one got me thinking...I like the idea of the absence of God caused the sin. This is one of those questions that will have to be answered with no doubt only in death. One day, we'll understand xD
The absence of God is darkness... because God is light. That being said, there is a lot of darkness in this world... does that mean God is completely absent? Not at all. We as humans looooove to be "in control".. so we can't really sit here in the comments and complain about how God allowed us to have a choice.
TheCrushmaster: Well with no way outta sin, we were stuck without the freedom of the cross. Sin is a choice for our flesh...but at some point without the cross, we loved our cycle of sin
Again for all who don't get it. Isaiah 45:17 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Again His words not mine.
God did create all. He created evil, but there is a distinction between giving someone the ability to oppose the creator and being the cause or tempter of the evil act.
I don't know the word of God like the back of my hand, yet, but heres a thought: "Maybe the starting point of sin is a mystery because The Lord wants us to trust in him through faith in him which requires us not know the whole picture? Another thought: The Lord is perfect in all his ways and is enteral and is therefore infinite so us limited creatures cannot even begin to comprehend his perfection in all his ways without him. Without him we are nothing." What do you think?
@@MarcosBetancort If you have no evidence for something, it does not qualify as being real. You have no evidence for fairies, goblins, and gremlins. Are you naive enough to think they are real? How gullible are you exactly?
@Steven Irizarry No. You have your logic completely backwards. You do not get to call something a "creation" until you have evidence of a "creator". The natural world is only evidence of the natural world. You have ZERO evidence for your invisible god.
@Steven Irizarry Yes, you are incorrect. I'm glad we agree about that. You have presented ZERO evidence for your invisible god and are LYING and PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
It was possible for Satan to sin because Satan is a created being given free will, and all created beings lack one thing that only God possesses: Holiness. Revelation 15:4 says, "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy." God alone is perfectly holy and therefore perfectly righteous and sinless. That means everything else apart from God has a tendency to sin and to fall into its curse UNLESS God seals that creature with His Spirit, which He does to those who believe in His Son, Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:13).
Jericho Leon Perfect answer. I believe, too, that the holy Spirit is the answer. Those that are believers have the holy spirit, something that Lucifer did not have. Now, we who join the Lord in our spirit form will be paired with the Holy Spirit which is within the Holy Trinity. As such, we will no longer be capable of sin and there will no longer be temptation from the devil as we have it here on Earth in our natural form.
Nicholas Flamel And, likewise, you have no evidence that he doesn't. In fact, there is more"evidence" as you say, existing that proves his existence, than not. For example, the big bang theory - the way it is described - backs up how the Bible says everything was created. God said "Let there be light" and it was so. In deed there was a big bang (which was when God, the Creator, spoke everything into existence), however, a part of the big bang theory is missing just one element. And that is, the "Who" caused it, because they've ascertained that light is where the particles that created the universe formed in the first place. You, my love, are a lost sheep and I pray you let your shepherd pull you into his flock and you are shown the path to salvation.
Thank you pastor John! Finally, an honest and direct answer to a question that has been asked countless times. I liked the analogy of the shadow caused by the tree when exposed to light. Light was blocked by something that prevented it from reaching the ground and thus a shadow is created. Yet the presence of light is what the caused the shadow in the first place. Thank you for posting this video. I play video games and I tend to explain things using video game analogy. To me God is like the developers of a video game. They decide the rules, they create the world we play in, they are in control of the final outcome, they decide the heroes and villains, they write the story, etc… To me God created everything and He decides what is good and what is evil. If He says that something is good then it will be considered good and something is bad then it is considered bad. The logic behind it is in God’s mind only. Just like the developers of a game decide which action lead to the success or failure of a quest. The same actions that work for one quest may not work in another quest. So I find that good and evil are not concepts that exist by themselves and God chose to be good. God created what is good and what is evil. Therefore, He is beyond good and evil and this is why we cannot determine what is good or evil by ourselves. Only God can tell us what and when something is considered good and what and when some is evil. He created the game. He created the rules in the game.
In my mind I always felt based on what happened in the Garden of Eden, when satan tempted Adam and Eve, it was his direct hatred toward God. From first of all disagreeing with the fact that God made humans to rule the Earth and have a relationship with us, something the angels don't have...I feel satan questioned God's reasoning as to why we were given a level of authority over the angels and was made from the dust the earth; (low to satan) lucifer the light bearer..the famous praise and worshiper who covered the Throne of God (Cherubim) which is the upper class of Angels, and with that kind of power, anointing and wisdom, I'm convinced at that point he was OFFENDED at the thought of God's plan and purpose through man...if Adam and Eve had've rejected the temptation of satan then they would've went from glory to glory; then displaying the perfect image and glory of God and God would've dwelt with them on Earth..this may have rubbed Lucifer the wrong way and made him feel like God wasn't satisfied with the way things have been in Heaven all that time..He got offended, prideful, resentful, hardened and then he was too far gone to even repent...blinded by his ambition and disagreement with His father's plan. (Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor." Ezekiel 28:17 Pride comes before the fall. He felt too good and important to lower himself to man. Thus questioning His Father's right to rule.....
I always felt that when Frodo was given the ring of power, he should have left Sam behind to keep him safe from the Orcs. You are believing in ridiculous fairy tales for no good reason. You have no evidence your god even exists. Much less that he created some conveniently vanished garden with magic fruit trees and talking snakes.
@@HealthySkepticism777 Ok, you are claiming that YOU know of evidence proving that god exists. Why didn't you say what it was? I will call your bluff. I don't think you have ANY evidence that god is real. I think you are just making baseless claims because you believe ridiculous supernatural things for no good reason. Prove me wrong. Present you BEST evidence for god so we can verify it.
The closest explanation I have is during the 1000 year reign of Christ, the people who survive will have no doubt that Christ is real but still Satan gets released to tempt the nations once more. To me it says that any being with a choice can make the wrong one despite knowing God is real. I’m just thinking out loud here so don’t get angry at me....teach me.
thats true...adam and eve knew God was real...yet satan tempted them...these days due to sin in the world many doubt his existence faith is the first step to salvation without faith why would any obey...but after faith obedience is step two the lack of obedience to God is what caused the fall
I agree with your second statement and would add that “choice” implies the presence of at least two options. If the first choice is up, then logically the alternate choice is down. So, if there is legitimate free will, then the opportunity to choose from good and evil has to be present. Another thought - without free will, creation could never truly love the Creator - or at least that love would never be genuine.
John, I think your explanation of Satan's incipient desire to do evil was very reasonable. I have wondered about this very thing myself. If I am correct, God was absent when Eve and Adam were tempted too. God's absence is implied when after Man's fall God visits them in the Garden and called out for them. So, I too think Satan was most likely deprived of God's immediate presence. I am not sure a Person could sin while they are in the immediate presence of God. I especially liked your explanation because it is comforting to know that God is in control even when we are experiencing darkness and contradiction from every side.
Within the counterbalance of creation is God's perfect duality. We are surrounded by it everywhere. Day/night, male/female, the sun/moon, etc. Even a tree has a reflection of itself underground. So where there is righteousness and perfection there must also be self worshipping and chaos. Truly, we know nothing of heavenly matters. So let us follow his instruction when he said, " Be still and know that I am God".
One of our pastors once said that if the bible is silent about a specific issue, then we should not be wiser than the author. Lets just ask God about when we get to heaven 😊😇
Regarding some questions, I rest upon the simple and irrefutable fact that God is God, and I am not. Faith is not just faith in Jesus Christ and also the things we learn from God through scripture, but it's also faith that God is in control, and that includes control over the things we don't know.
Katherine Poindexter please don’t take this verse out of context and go an understand what the term evil implies here. Are you telling me that God created the evil and He Himself is not evil? I would be careful of who you make God out to be - when God created everything in the creation account, He said “it was good” can you say that evil is good? I fear for you, if you think God caused sin.
@@godschild6417 for Pete's aches...she didn't say "Gwad is a sinner just like you and me" she said that the Lord told us through Isaiah that HE CREATES these things.
I really like that answer. Not just the "I don't know" but also the possibility that it was "God's concealed glory." Jesus said, "Not that anyone has seen the Father except He who is from God; He has seen the Father." Likewise, we are told that the Father dwells in unapproachable light, and that if anyone should see Him they would die. Even the angels in heaven hide their faces from God, saying "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!" The highest law of God is to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. If Lucifer honored this, he would not have fell, because he would have simply obeyed every word from the Lord and counted it glory for God. However, if his love was such that he desired to not only see the face of God, but also that he desired to suffer in the place of God, then he would be setting himself against the will of God. Is it sin to desire to see God's face? Is it sin to desire to suffer in God's place? I imagine that if this is what sparked Lucifer's rebellion, then it would have been his best argument to convince the other angels. Perhaps even an idea that if angels mingled with man, then they might partake in the righteousness of Christ, and so earn the privilege of seeing God face to face. I'm not saying that is how it happened, but Piper offered up a good enough guess that he really got me analyzing it. God could see the one who would be called Satan from the beginning, so why did He create Lucifer? If God knew that any desire would be so great it would cause one of his angels to sin, why would he not lessen that desire? I know that for us, I can't imagine the Lord would desire we love Him less, or that we should not desire to lay down our lives for Him. How much greater would those desires be if we dwelled with Him in heaven? This is perhaps not a perfect explanation as to how Lucifer could sin, but it does avoid placing the root of sin on God, I think. Let me know what you think, or if you think this explanation still implies God created sin.
I've heard this reason from a Catholic and find this the closest answer to this baffling question : All good comes from God and the desire to do good. God did not give Lucifer the desire to sin but God tested all the angels by taking away some of the grace that kept them holy. So the absence of God's grace and presence in us, causes us to falter and worse when we are distracted by something else apart from God that is attractive. Lucifer had more reason to sin bec he was also distracted with his own glory once the test way underway and God withdrew some of His grace.
All I can say is I'm okay with being ignorant, sure I'm curious but I don't want to question God or his judgement. God knows, AND it's none of my business, if I needed the answers God would make sure I knew. :)
God is the author of all things everything ever created is a part of God's divine plan which revolves around us has to be done God's way for his plan to come to past God can destroy Satan no problem and take us all straight to heaven and we all live happily ever after we know God can do that why it's done this way I don't know if it's in Gods plan for me to know then I would know For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that who ever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord and savior amen 🙏
Who tempted Lucifer? I've wondered this for a long time. If men/angels were destined to sin/fall anyways, wouldn't that render the whole test of whether we sin or not a false choice, or non-choice?
We're not destined to sin, we sin because of the prior choices of humanity that put us in the predicament where WE, humanity, invented deception. God is truth. God knows no deception and would not put deception into the world. That is satan's design. I suppose that makes me a dualist.
Your father knew you would fail. But he lets you fail to test you, to teach you, to guide you, help you, love you thru it. You learn from this. And you love your father for being there for you.
I thought Lucifer the anointed Cherub fell when through his pride , he decided he wanted to be worshipped like God. Wouldn't that have been his first sin.
In the O.T. he is associated with musical instruments and music...some teachers have taught that he was the worship leader in heaven...but when he regarded his own beauty, he thought that he was equal to God and he should be worshipped like God...so he stole some of the worship for himself and did not give all the glory to God. " The root of bitterness" was the cause of his downfall. Just look at his temptation of Jesus " All these kingdoms I will give you...if you bow down and worship ME "
The question is not what is the first sin but where does the desire to do so come from. It's a question about the origin(cause/influence) of a desire to sin. In Lucifer's case, where did the desire to walk in pride come from?
I think the first sin from(lucifer) was pride,vanity..because he was so beautiful..the Most beautiful of all the Angels..and that is what lead lucifer to sin. Ezekiel 28:17. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; - v14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; v15 - You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. v16 By the abundance of your trading( in conversation) You became filled with violence within,and you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing. In Ezekiel 28:6 it tells you all about lucifer and how God made him, how beautiful he was above all the other angels..till he was corrupted with idolatry.and what comes with that is pride,vanity and then idolatry..lucifer's downfall was he got wrapped in his beauty so much that he looked at himself as the beautiful creation and not thanking the beautiful Creator..I hope this makes sense.
God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Yes to this; and precaptivity, Isaiah gave a similar word in his 14th chapter. I'll leave you to see it for yourself, except for this; v. 13, For you have said in your
@@karenmessinger9609 Yes, and I'd take it a step further down the trail (of the truth), asking where or what was the cause behind his pride, that led him down an opposing trail? Exek. 28, met'inks, may/will/can be helpful in this regard?
@@steevrush He obviously thought highly of himself to the point that he thought himself equal to God. His beauty & abilities, knowledge that God gave him may have had him thinking he should be worshipped too. He really desires to be worshipped still. The bible speaks of Satan & his angels..I wonder sometimes if Satan got other angels to worship him hence them becoming his angels. Like God having His angels that worship Him? I'd be interested in what you may think.
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. God has KNOWLEDGE of good and evil so when he created the angels they also had the knowledge of good and evil and Lucifee (being the most beautiful angel) rejected the good and became the father of lies
@@aaronwillis3659 No it's not. It means that God is just, so for there to be a reward for those found righteous in God's sight, there has to be punishment for those found wicked in God's sight. Evil in this case refers to the punishment of sin, just as peace refers to the reward of obedience.
It has a Spirital Explanation, which we can't understand as human flesh!!! If we really want to know the answer, Wé have To Live as Jesus Said!! And in Heaven everything Will be CRYSTAL CLEAR! Have Faith!
Makes sense! Because of our free will when we follow sin God covers his face & allows us to face the full consequences of sin only when we call on his name through the son that he shows his face to us & guides us out of the sinful life
You can disagree or whatever, but Thomas Aquinas's philosophy and paterology give an excellent answer to this. You would really need to understand his position to really get it fully. But basically, God is fully good and fully perfect in an infinite qualitative sense. Nothing God creates is infinite in that sense. So nothing is infinitely perfect. It's only perfect insofar as it's purpose or teleology. So while God is incapable of corruption, as He is by nature good, anything God creates is NOT by nature good, and therefore capable of corruption. Now, switching to a freewill and psychology. I'm going to explain what I think is the case for humans (briefly, Aquinas wrote better and a million times longer, so go read him if you want more of an answer) but I think something similar could be the case for angels. While we might not know for sure, we can at least hold to a framework where it's possible. So, a free will is designed to choose the good. However, it is capable of mixing up what is the highest good. So if someone runs around punching people, it's because they think their own freedom to do what they want, is a higher good than your right to be left alone, or maybe they think since it makes them feel better, that feeling is good and it trumps the good of helping others. Whatever the case may be, for the most part, is the most insane people will have an excuse for why their action is justified, i.e., good. From this, it makes sense that God's freewill, would never be mistaken because He is by nature good, and he is all knowing, and all powerful to accomplish what is good. However, anything finite with a free will, is not good by nature, it is only good insofar as it adheres to the teleos that it was designed for by God (a good dog, and a good angel and a good human are all very different. A human acting like a good dog is not a good human). So, a finite being, that is not goodness itself, that does not know everything and does not have all power (especially considering power struggles) it makes sense that we could be wrong about what is good. Nevertheless, we (and angels) are without excuse because we often know what is good, or we could find out what is good. Many times when people do something wrong, they purposely put out of their mind the ideas that make it obvious that they are wrong. For instance, you are thinking of stealing a cookie, and the ten commandments come into your head, so you shove that out of your mind and only think about how delicious a cookie would be. You choose to only present certain ideas to your will. Because you have a finite mind, you can do that. So Satan could have seen that his power was good, and decided it would be better to have more power, as much as God's. And as a result, he rebelled against God. Or maybe, if Ezekiel 28:17 is talking about Satan this could explain what happened: "Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor." I think what people are looking for is how could this have happened? That's where I think Aquinas' framework can really help. Piper says no one has the answer, maybe not one he agrees with, and maybe not one exhaustively, but I think Aquinas got a lot closer than Piper let on! But I know Piper isn't going to be gung-ho about freedom in this sense. (Although some Aquinas scholars have pointed out that Aquinas; position on freewill is pretty deep and involves God determining the will, but I haven't done my own study to understand how that works, but there have been plenty of Calvinist Thomists over the years) Whatever the case may have been, given this framework of freedom, infinite vs finite, and mixing up the goods, it certainly makes sense that a finite creation with freedom would have sin.
This is my view too.This seems the only answer we have, but may I add something? To be able to give free will to His angels, God had to hide His glory so Lucifer being the most perfect angel created was the first one who fell. He was almost like God and this was the reason He fell. When he fell he turned against God, in other words, he completely denied the truth because God is the truth so Lucifer became Satan, the opposing force, the evil, the liar. Now, God did the same thing with Adam and Eve, He had to hide His glory from them but something more happened, Satan came exactly when they were alone and he tempted them, this is like an influence, but when Lucifer fell, there was no temptation, now things are different, free will became a choice between good and evil, before Lucifer's fall, there was no evil.
What a great, well thought out response. Thank you for this. It makes sense to me! Good is perfect= No sin We are not perfect = We will sin. If we did not we would be perfect, we would be like God. A person acting like a good dog would not be a good human. A human acting like a good human is still not the standard of God.
@David Karingithi I see what you are saying. But what is sin? Sin is what God has defined as sin. So when God said "eating this apple is a sin" there was always 2 options- eat it or don't eat it. God didn't have to "create sin" but his rules defined what was sinful to Him.
@David Karingithi I suppose with such complex issues there are always questions still to be answered. Personally for me the explanation makes sense at this point in time but as I look furyher into it I may have more questions. It's nice to have a sensible conversation though in youtube comments!
As an eager student of the word and lover of christ, as curious as i am to understand this, i must conclude for myself..There's a reason we dont have definitive understanding/answers to certain things. After all, pride goes before destruction, and our striving to attain this knowledge in of itself could lead us to fall just as satan... So i believe the reason we aren't to know may actually be god protecting us from the pride of needing to know! In a way, he protects us from ourselves! After all, knowledge puffs up, but love builds up, our duty and privilege is to love, and we can do so with a healthy, reverential, faithful knowledge of god and his will, clearly presented in scripture, but most inarguably, trusting in jesus work of redemption for us on the cross. To a certain degree god allows us to attain knowledge, and apply biblical principles to our lives which inspires our delight in him and directs us rightly. Yet some knowledge may be forbidden to us, because we aren't god! Gods ways are higher than ours. (Isaiah 55: 8-9) God understands the deeper reality here, and this may not be for us to interpret fully, but that's okay, because god keeps us humble in our not knowing! (Ecclesiastes 7:16) Don’t be too good or too wise! Why destroy yourself?
Thank you for your wise and humble words Pastor John! Even though I'm not a Calvinist I enjoy listening to your sermons and am blessed by it. One question I have though: Why should God has hidden His face from one of His most glorious angels - Lucifer - before he ever sinned yet? The study of Ezekiel 28:12-19 (especially verse 17) and Andrew Murrays book "Humility" lead me to another asumption: I believe that Lucifer was constantly looking at his own marvellous beauty so that he couldn't see God's glory anymore (why he did that is still a mystery though). But he couldn't not see God glory anymore, because He cloaked it from him, but because Lucifer fixed his eyes on himself - and not on God. He became totally self-absorbed. In that state of self-centeredness he was in a self-induced isolation of God's glory that could have brought him back to the only rightful place of any creature - the place of humility and adoration of the Creator. But because satan didn't behold God's glory, his pride could increase to a point where satan was convinced that he would be a better leader than God Himself! In this total delusion he started to rebel against the Most High - we all know the outcome... So, dear brothers and sisters, let's not stop to seek His glory by focussing on ourselves! Blessings to all of you :)
I believe when all of the angels lined up, bowed, and worshipped God, Lucifer caught a glimpse, being at the front, of what it was like to be worshipped and wanted the same. I think he hesitated when he saw Jesus, The Word, and thus saw all of the angels bow down at once and reflecting the beauty of God back to himself.
I think you might be onto something. Lucifer was the cherub that covered. On the Ark of the Covenant there are two cherubs facing each other, but there would've been a third cherub above the mercy seat, the cherub that covered. Like you said he began to covet the worship that belonged to God. During the Tribulation he's going to get the worship of most humans.
This.... for so long I've had this question and I've heard some answers that either make the question smaller than it is, or answers that don't hold up with God's character. Finally, The question was validated, and honestly there is comfort in hearing Pastor John say, "I don't know." Because I feel like that really is the wisest place to land ..... But we trust that God is good, and God is sovereign, and we rest in Jesus.
Without darkness no one would know what light is. If we are to learn how great a heavenly place is we need to make our way through darkness. Its duality.
Praise the Lord Sometimes I feel like everything including sin and the fallen angels are just part of God's theatre which He plays to our consciousness as the ultimate form of entertainment, and our job as the audience is to find the message in it
@@HealthySkepticism777 Knowledge can be DEMONSTRATED, and you cannot provide one tiny piece of evidence showing that your invisible god exists. You are LYING and PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
@@HealthySkepticism777 Knowledge can be DEMONSTRATED, and you cannot provide one tiny piece of evidence showing that your invisible god exists. You are LYING and PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
Satan's evil proceeds from being self centered and narcissistic. Satan demands omnipotence without earning it because he lacks omniscience. Power proceeds from knowing all things and proceeding upon the greatest possibilities for all creation - for others. This in part is what ironically makes oneself great.
Its does not take simplicity to understand. It takes GULLIBILITY. There is no evidence for god existing or for ANY of the supernatural claims made by the bible.
@@nicholasflamel1134 YOUR logic is FLAWED. imagine thinking simplicity and gullibility aren't compatible. Therefore YOU have LIED here, purely to serve YOUR EVIL heart. Stop PRETENDING that you cannot be SIMPLE and GULLIBLE. But....I'm not going to call you a pathetic fraud like you do to others. Merely a misguided soul
@@troywright359 I never said that simplicity and gullibility could not be compatible. Why LIE about what I said when everyone can still read what I said? I was pointing out that believing in things you have no evidence for is better described as being gullible, not being simple. They are two different words. There is a large book that might come in handy for you in the future. It is called a dictionary.
@@nicholasflamel1134 you sait it DOES NOT take simplicity to understand, that it takes GULLIBILITY. Why say it doesn't include one and then try to backtrack here saying you didn't exclude it? The intent was clear, you were not targetting 'simple' but 'gullible.'
We are sinful by nature which is punishable by death, so you and I will die, but since Jesus sacrificed himself to pay for our sin, (he paid the fine of our crimes) God blesses us eternal life after our death , repent and trust in Jesus!
I once hear that when God created humans in His image Satan became jeleous because the angels were not. Satan hated that humans that was created lesser than angels were created more "god like" - (I am not saying we are gods or better) but we are created in Gods image. We also had maybe privileges that the devil did not have and he became jealous. In Gods kingdom it always worked that the master must wash the servants feet, and the devil - like most angels are serving beings - had to serve humans and that is why he became rebellious. He wanted to be served. This is just an idea and not saying what I just wrote is the truth, but it makes some sens, and excuse my english.
@Jon Jensen let's connect, please. I say this on the premise of the fact that the attachment you made in the comment can't be overlooked and a person who writes sense is a person whom I should get to know. Alexandra,🙂
I was thinking about this and had this thought, is it possible that lucifer did not *recieve* the desire for evil but simply chose evil out of his free will? Would this not in effect be the most vile and evil act possible, which would allow for the influence of evil in the future? Because truth cannot exist without the possibility of 'untruth' (right cannot exist without wrong), so the possibility for evil had to exist in order for truth to exist. So is it possible nothing *made* lucifer to rebel, he fully chose to rebel on his own volition (which really would make him the father of lies and evil)?
Barry Midikiner The answer for your second question is found in Jesus Christ. He fulfilled the ancient hebrew prophecies, and most importantly rose from the dead. His existence is verified in Roman and Jewish sources as well who regarded him as a problem and would have had no reason to make him up. Secondly his followers and hundreds of people saw him after he rose from the dead and his disciples risked comforts and even their lives to proclaim the gospel which has now been spread all over the globe. So too with Paul a Roman citizen and pharisee who initially persecuted Christians and then completely turned his life around to preach the gospel, risking the wrath of both the Jews and the Romans. Jesus lived, that much is historically corroborated, and we know he was sentenced to death (and the Romans prided themselves on completing their executions efficiently), and he was placed in a tomb with guardsmen so none would take his body and a huge stone was placed in front that could not be moved. Yet the tomb was still empty and Jesus appeared to hundreds of people. His teachings should logically have ended with his death, yet the church was established and has grown ever since. That too is remarkable considering the Roman persecution Christians faced in the 1st century. Why would these jews (and a couple if gentiles mostly jews) proclaim something so radical? They were ostracized by their jewish community and seen as heretics, they were persecuted by Romans, put to death even, renounced their former lives (like Paul, to proclaim the gospel), and got neither wealth nor comfort nor power from this. What then (if not Jesus) would lead them towards this kind of life? One might say that they were pursuing a moral route, something beyond this world (perceived at least) motivated them, but that would be going against the Judaic faith in which they were raised. At any rate this is the tip of the iceberg, for a more philosophical take I highly recommend 'Mere Christianity' by CS Lewis (or any of his books really, as a former atheist he has a very interesting perspective that someone raised in the faith might not, and there is also a book called 'The case for Christ' which you might find interesting.
As far as i'v read, God gave angels 'free will' just like us, but because Lucifer became PROUD due to his beauty, as stated in the BIBLE. So PRIDE because he wanted to take God's place. Seems obvious really. It reads very clearly.
Been having some real struggles with this question and questions like it but this has settled me somehow, it kept seeming every time I’d try to find out things about free will and why things are how they are I would find people either saying they explicitly believe in free will or they believe in predestination of satan but both didn’t settle me, it’s good to finally hear an “I don’t know” on this subject because that stops me having to repress my confusion and end up doubting things I shouldn’t be
You actually have no evidence that your invisible god exists. PRETENDING to know that he is wiser than us does not make it so. It just makes you a pretender.
@@nicholasflamel1134 The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will make you an athiest, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you. - Werner Heisenberg (father of Quantum Physics). Dig deeper and stop pretend you know more. I'm sure you couldn't even imagine a simple little piece of paper to come out of nothing, still you believe Everything has. Keep that belief if you prefer it, and let others have theirs. My faith isn't yours to care about. 🕊️🙏💕
@@nicholasflamel1134 And I heard you the first time, it's not like your second addition was any more clever and full of master class insights. It's sad you're so indoctrinated by the "proof society" of course you can't have any faith then. Look up what the leaders that tells you to not believe, believe in themselves and you might be in for a surprise...
Nothing comes close to the glory or holiness of God - He is pure - the fall was always inevitable - only Jesus' sacrifice covers our impurity in God's eyes.
God deos not temp, rather he allows temptation to come so that you can grow in endurence, for he works ALL thing for the good of his children@@willook9170
He does worse than that. he creates evil Isaiah 45:7, . Earlier in the old testament he's the one who hardened Pharoah's heart when Moses goes to plead for the release of the Israelites. God made it physically impossible for the Egyptian ruler to listen to Moses pleas/demands. God did this so he could quite literally throw his power around and plague Egypt. God took away the free will of the Egyptian king so he's be able to kill a whole bunch of Egyptians. We could mention the number of genocides he has committed, or commanded etc., but I'll bet you don't want to remember any of those things, especially the murder of babies by putting them to the sword, or bashing in their heads against the ground. You've got quite the lovely deity there. Then there's the rape of women that's found in Zacheriah, or even back to the beginning where God leaves a really naive Adam and Eve unattended in Eden, right near a really dangerous tree...planted smack dab in the middle of everything where it was easy to access(remember they have no working understanding of what death was, any more than a little child would) let the snake waltz right on in...remember God knows all, sees all and is everywhere, yet allows this fast talking used car saleman of a serpent to bend their ears, and gets angry when they are unsurprisingly suckered. God knew this was going to happen, yet let it . It was a set up or incompetence. god, being perfect couldn't screw up so it had to be on purpose so he could have a reason to torment humanity into fearing and appeasing him, jealous god that he is. God creates the angels to be perfect being, and Lucifer is the best of this creation. They have no free will of their own though. Somehow God, who is perfect, creates another group of beings who are also perfect but without free will, and the best of them suddenly rebels, and manages to get followers???? How does something perfect create something else that is perfect and that perfections suddenly become imperfect? Not logical. All these stories prove that God isn't the perfect god he claims to be. he's a poor "father" and protector to his human creations. When humanity screws up, God is sorry he created humans at all. Perfect being don't make errors. Perfection means without error. First, when the new kids in Eden mess up, he blames them for it even though he left them ill prepared to deal with the serpent. he kicks them out, and in some fit of pique he not only curses all humans until the end of time with mortality and hardship, and emnity with snakes...he allows death to come into the world, and pain in childbirth, and weeds where people would farm. Why the other animals also have to put up with the unjust punishment dished out to Adam and Eve is anyone's guess."God only knows" "cough". They didn't foul up. Things go from bad to worse, as humans follow their propensities and genetic programming(Thanks God) They squabble, and act like the primitive peoples they are. God get's annoyed and thinks this whole deal was a mistake...again...perfect beings don't make mistakes... he decided to reboot the planet's life. Once again the other lifeforms have to suffer because God get's mad at humans for being what he allowed them to become because he didn't raise or educate The first two properly in the first place... oh then there's the whole incest thing... with A &E 's kid having no one to procreate wit except their siblings and parents. This is not good for mentally and physically healthy offspring after a few generations because of inbreeding. Is it any wonder, that by the time of Noah, humans were pretty messed up? So God decides to wash those humans right out of his hair...of course the other lifeforms who didn't sign up for this get drowned along with the humans not allowed aboard the ark. Women children, babies, men...all drowned. Genocide one. There will be other smaller bouts of murder done by God, or on his orders later on... How many toddlers and babies do you think were actively sinning and deserved mass murder?Instead of starting fresh, God uses his tainted old stock of humans to replenish the human population. Incest again, not to mention not understanding that the Noah family would carry that damned curse right through the flood. How could God not understand genetics or his own curse? Of course, since the original sin remained within this tiny new founder population nothing changed. God also, by introducing this massive bottleneck in the human population allowed for recessive genetic traits a much higher chance of being expressed in this tiny new group of humans that would be the stock from which all subsequent generations would arise. How could God not understand the way genes work? How inbreeding causes problems? I am thinking that the majority of diseases and genetic abnormalities and bad mutations come from this ... that is if you want to actually try and take these Biblical stories to be true If you try to use any critical thinking whatsoever when looking at the stories of the Bible, forget ti. You'll have to fully suspend your disbelief, and rationalise, and cherry pick through the whole thing if you want to find a deity that isn't a complete wanker who lies about being perfect, does a lousy job of looking after his creations. Blames the victims for being inexperienced and ignorant, when they had no options for betterment beyond using the one thing they were forbidden... then to make things worse they are cursed, and through all human time...and then to eternal torture id they maybe actually use the free will app he installed in their brains... Yeah..you can use it, but if you do, and you don't decide to worship me..you are going to be eternal toasted crispy critters. So no to actual freewill, because using it means something far worse the blue screen of death or the blinking red ring of death ;) Basically bloatware, if you are going to buy the Bible storyline...Is it any wonder that non believers tend to regard the Christians(and other religious types who meddle in education and politics and try to dismantle education and science) with pity, anger, frustration, a fair bit of bemusement, and outright incredulity at how easily some people can be taken in by such ridiculous stories. Certainly, it was understandable back when no one knew anything much about what we could consider science.Humans make up stories when they haven't got facts, because they have a need to know explore and try to understand the world around them. Power over others, self empowerment, making up reasons why traditions and rituals and laws must be followed...use the god club and wield it often to keep people fearful of eternal as well as earthly retribution if they don't toe the line and do as the kings and priests say is the will of God...That was then...this is now. We know why the rain falls, why the grass is green, why stars cannot fall to earth,why the earth cannot be a measly years old...We have information the the writers of the Bible did not have, and neither it seems did their "perfect, all knowing all present and all powerful God". Funny that, how the God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslim never knows/knew anything more than his followers and always has the same bias towards things as was common to the time period. It should make you wonder....
Because of free will, he gave them the choice to decide God or sin, James 1:13 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
Resheed, Adom was created perfect but temptation still tempts and God tests our love for him. James 1:13 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
sin is "sin against God", He decided what a sin is , He's the Boss. God can't sin because sin is "sin against God " u see?? He is good . How can God sin? who would He sin against? He's the absolute Boss, He decided what a sin against Himself is.
God didn't arbitrarily set a standard of righteousness and sin, He is the standard of righteousness, and anything contrary to his nature and character is sinful.
now who ever said your bible wasnt messed with. Popes have appearently proof that god is real or doesnt exist underneath the chaple or cathedral. Read the bible, look at "Jesus", do research and look at Cesar Borgia.
@@seemfancy That is a painting, not the Bible. Biblically speaking, what the new testament says aligns with information (Torah) dated before the first Pope existed. We have enough quotes from early early (early) Christians that we can piece the Bible together with to know what was believed in the 1st century before there was a Pope or 'roman catholics' so to speak. We also have a bible from the 2nd or 3rd century I believe so it would have had to be changed in about 3 generations by some high up authorities who decided this change. The Bible was not in the control of a group of powerful ppl. Everyone wrote their own copy and had their own. If high up people changed it, then the manuscripts found in old abandoned cities would have contradicted what we have today by now. Let me know your thoughts on what I said.
And even if Lucifer somehow got the impulse to rebel, why would he continue to do so when he knows that an All powerful All knowing God knows what he's doing? Why start a fight you know you're going to lose??
I don't know the answer to that, but have some questions that might narrow down what the answer could be, going on the definition that sin is separation from God. Is giving a choice the same thing as creating the wrong choice? I thought currently heaven is without sin, and the angels no longer have choice. Previously they had free will. Free will means there had to be some possibility for separation from God, however small. I don't think that means God created the separation, only the possibility. Otherwise we're just robots. If Lucifer could not have sinful thoughts, that means God was controlling his thoughts and he did not have free will. Given the option, how he chose separation idk
He was in Eden I believe. It says so in Ezekiel 28:13 onward. That's why it says in Isaiah that he said in his heart "I will ASCEND into heaven" etc etc. But I believe he was on an assignment. When the thought entered his heart, he allowed it to germinate and corrupt him. God gave all of his creation free will. And the angels who rebel chose their lust over their Creator
My opinion is that evil is vital for our free will to choose God freely in order that we are not robots but have real love for Him. We will never know how until we meet Christ in heaven
Evil came from within Satan himself when he saw his wisdom and beauty given to him by God. It begun in pride and of his position in heaven wanting for more up to the desire of reaching the position of God. This evil is already there in the beginning of creation of man that is why he was able to deceive Eve and Adam. Let us read what Jesus said in , John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
I usually end up doing this-commenting before I hear the complete video (I'm at 4:44). But something I thought of a couple times was, since Lucifer did sin and fall, once I am with my Savior in eternity, would it be possible for me to sin? I know how contemptible my flesh is, and in eternity it will be gone, so I don't think I'd have any problem. But it's the possibility that one of us would have the ability to sin in heaven, that so haunts my mind. This topic is truly a deep mystery. I better listen to the rest before writing my next thought... Okay, here's where I differ with some hyper-Calvanists Yes, God is Sovereign over all things. But how can we who are finite assume we know certain things about angels that has not been revealed? It does not diminish God's sovereignty to think, perhaps, angelic beings have more freedom of will than man? God still had foreknowledge, assigning us a Savior before creation, knowing sin would arise in Saten, who perhaps had been created with the capacity to sin, but given every reason & circumstance not to sin. Mankind's wills are only free within the parameters God has set. Perhaps angels have different parameters? I may not have expressed that clearly enough-need more coffee, blessings.
True indeed , who is asking the question oh thou Lucifer how have down fallen seems to me the Mystery is also a mystery to that person? I really think God knows everything but could it be he didn’t have a clue to how Lucifer got that first sinful thought?
ChristandI45 sin is "sin against God", He decided what a sin is , He's the Boss. God can't sin because sin is "sin against God " u see?? He is good . How can God sin? who would He sin against? He's the absolute Boss, He decided what a sin against Himself is.
I think of the state where the "inclination" to sin exists... as being a "Godless" vacuum. Where the individual is inclined, by "pressure", to, like a black hole, implode upon oneself. Sin is not the act. Sin is the moral implosion of the will when the presence of God is removed or just absent. And sin is like a moral implosion. It's a "natural" occurrence based on the properties of good and evil. Good is a positive, expanding force. Evil is simply what results in the absence of good, where there is still the pressure of some kind of "natural" design. That's what sin is, at least for human beings. The things we do are not evil in themselves, but are evil when done without the positive and expanding pressure/motivation of the Holy Spirit which sanctifies and is pure. The absence of the Holy Spirit creates a vacuum where the only "pressure" is the "natural design" searching for an avenue of expression and actualization. In this setting the will can't help but sin. It's not a direct creation of God, I gather it thus frees God of direct moral accountability, perhaps. But it's not an "out", as God is sovereign. I don't know that I have it right. It just seems "logical" to me.
Okay, I saw some of the comments about free will and choice. I believe we do have a choice. We only have capacity to choose because He does. And I think it's proven either way, in obedience and disobedience. The things surrounding mysteries are only shadows of the mystery that God Himself is! In Him is hidden ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3)! I believe His glory is all inspiring even in His absences or what He chooses to withhold is as compelling as His revelation because there is no other like Him. He is the only Truth! And there are real dangers, even eternal ones! I believe (even with His angels) it's all a love faith and trust issue, which at the heart speaks of love, which speaks of choice. I believe like in Gods restrictions his commands laws etc which in themselves are reflections of Him but are not Him, that though God is omnipresent there are ways that He is very hidden from us. Like, right now He is with us and that truth is manifest in our mere existence and often manifest in many other evident ways as well especially for the believer, yet there is still a way He is very hidden at the same time. How can an omnipresent person be hidden? Why being with us we still have to seek Him?! And I believe that in these apparent paradoxes, the enemy works and our limited view and knowledge presents the test for the creature, which I believe at root is not only a test but an invitation, faith and love are the issue. And I believe the same is true for the angels. OKAY😶THIS NEXT PART IS LONG...ER!!!!!😊 Ezekiel 28 gives the description that seem to speak of a man at first but then it quickly become clear he is speaking of a spiritual being who is created full of wisdom and perfect in beauty (Ez 28:12) and was the covering cherub of God (Ez 28:16). Though created perfect, by mere creation must be inferior and thereby restricted in some way, I believe the Bible gives us deep insights into the mystery of iniquity as called in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. May not give us the exhaustive background, but a glimpses. I also believe our own sin and battles gives us glimpses as well, and in us we know like Paul said in Romans 3:5-8 that Gods truth and glory abounds true even through lies. He cannot change and abides faithful even if we deny Him! He can make choices and set boundaries that create situations that require faith and trust for the creature. He did it with Adam and Eve Abraham and everyone and I believe He did it with the angels as well, 1 Peter 1:12 says there are things that they (the angels) earnestly desire to look into, as to indicate there is still something hidden from these beings who have access to His manifest presence in a way we are yet to know! Ephesians also speaks of the mystery and minifold wisdom of God that is now being made manifest to principalities and powers through the church, another indication that they are obviously limited in their knowledge and can learn! I do not believe mere testing is Gods main goal, I believe love is! Weather we will look away from Him or not! Choose self or Him. We and angels seem to manifestly have this choice! Without faith it is impossible to please Him! God is so absolutely God and holy that He can't fail nor can His purposes be thwarted and to believe this requires trust/faith. Because God can't be mocked Galatians 6:7. I believe that even in satan's rebellion and lies, he is still proving God to be all glorious, all good and most desirable and even most beautiful. I believe the Bible gives us a glimpse into this through Lucifer's now Satan's own words when he said I will be like the most High in Isaiah 14:14. I believe these give us a glimpse into what happened, he was somehow restricted in his desire which was at one time pure unto God yet I believe what this creature desired and tried to take for himself God has freely given us and that is to be in Gods likeness (which should humble us, we cannot boast in pride because it was freely given to us by His grace and sustained by His grace). Ephesians also tells us He chose us before the world began! (Long before we sinned or Satan rebelled) to be conformed to the image of His Son! And the gift is as free as God Himself! He cannot be black balled or made to do what He does not want to. This tells me there is something deeper going on! Though the angels are referred to sometimes as sons of God, yet the Bible never says any other creature was made in God' image and likeness, but we are and we (believers) are called His bride which speaks of a position of intimate knowledge and nearness! Scripture says He took on Himself the nature of man not an angel! You see God made his intentions clear from the beginning in creating man and woman husband and wife we have to remember all things were made by Christ for Christ and to Christ are ALL things HE is the answer! It gets deep But God Himself is the answer to all mysteries and He desire trust and love from us, all His creatures! The thing that amazes me about the whole thing is that He still remains a mystery to be searched out the more we learn about Him, He somehow becomes (I speak as a man) more beautiful and more powerful and more worthy!!! He's mind blowing!
I suspect it was from the fact he was the covering angel and saw the glances of some of his fellow angels. He noticed he was superior to them and pride took root.
I suspect it is all a fairy tale that grown adults should not still believe in. You grew out of Santa and the Tooth Fairy. You should grow out of this ridiculous belief too.
@Austin Powers Glad you are willing to provide answers. I would like to know what EVIDENCE you have that your invisible god exists. If you were claiming that invisible pink unicorns exist, I would require evidence for them before I trusted what you were claiming. Same here. You say an invisible god exists, so please don't dodge the question and show me the evidence you have that proves that claim.
@Austin Powers The FIRST few lines of your reply are complete lies. NONE of those theories in science say ANYTHING about god existing or not existing, because scientific theories can only deal with things for which we have EVIDENCE. None of those theories say "explosion = creation. You are straight up LYING. You don't even know that the "big bang" (actually called inflation theory) is not about some "explosion" happening in space. No one in science said that random events with no constraints produced anything complex. You OBVIOUSLY don't understand gravity, nuclear forces, chemical bonding, or natural selection. You don't need to keep LYING and PRETENDING that you understand science. I teach Biology Physics and Chemistry for a living, so I am already well aware that you have no real education in science. You don't even understand high school level concepts. What you HAVE demonstrated immediately with your reply is that you are willing to LIE and PRETEND to know things about science, and that you have no real evidence for god. Now what? Should I continue reading your irrational philosophical ramblings too? You are basically making one giant "argument from ignorance" fallacy. You are basically saying "I don't understand science or logic.... therefore god did it." What a PATHETIC fail on your part. You started by LYING and PRETENDING to have evidence for god, but all you had was a bag full of your own ignorance. You are obviously too ignorant to understand how ignorant you sound to someone with a science background. Whats worse, is that even if you could prove every theory in science wrong, it still would not be evidence for your imagined deity. You would still need to provide the evidence you failed to provide for your invisible god.
@Austin Powers I will take my own advice on who is an "educated man". No one is here to do YOUR homework for you. YOU are the one PRETENDING to know that a god exists, so YOU are the one who needs to go look for evidence to support your ridiculous supernatural beliefs. You have gone from bragging that you definitely had evidence for god, to LYING over and over again about scientific concepts you don't understand, to cowardly trying to send ME on a wild goose chase to find the evidence YOU lied about having. What a PATHETIC PATHETIC FRAUD you have turned out to be. Shame on you.
This is a VERY interesting question, with this in mind I have a question... in the New Age (restored Earth/Heaven) where sin will no longer exist.... will it be possible for those with God to commit sin again e.g be proud or selfish.... since Satan committed sin in a realm and state of existence above ours (spiritual). obviously I have my own thoughts but I'm interested in peoples thoughts? Many thanks - bless ya -Mat
Mat & Est i think there will no longer be temptation. no exposure of the flesh , no Internet so no one will put more time on their phones. no alcohol or drugs- no addiction. not that many possessions like money so no greed of course he will teach us about love they nieghtbor n no vengeance. basically everything that is now work be around when God comes back we will have a very less chance of sin to ever happen
Mat & Est to ask that question is essentially to ask - "will Christ sin?". All who are present in that age are in Christ and in incorruptible bodies. As the body is Christ, for any one of us to even harbour the possibility of sin would mean that Christ did as we will be totally one with him. Not possible.
Mat & Est - ChristianVloggers I wanna give an opinion on this that i shared with a course that my wife and i took a few years ago and this same question came up in a roundtable. Think about it like this. If God wanted to give man free will which we kno he did. How can u have free will unless there are opposing options. So if God is a perfect being perfectly light with no darkness perfectly good with no evil perfectly righteous without any faults....then wouldn't he have to creat the exact opposite in order for man to choose from. He could have easily made us to think and do only good things and never bad.....but then that would be a robot.....not a creation made by someone who loves it unconditionally. He had to give mankind a choice that is the exact opposite of what he is and stands for. There is a scripture that confirms God said i created evil.....he said it.....his own words. Therefore he is taking responsibility for creating the Devil. He isn't shying away from that.....and he also isn't saying that it was a mistake ti create Satan bcuz God doesn't make mistakes. He intended to create a perfect angel that would serve him for a while and then he intended for that angel to become filled with pride and rebel and turn other angels against him and people against him. God owns that in the Bible. So i take it as it had to be done in order for God to say i truly have given human beings free will to either love me and obey me.....or to reject me and turn away.....but its their choice no matter what. As parents we kno the dangers of letting our kids go outside the house and play.....the children have no idea what's out there. We as parents have been there and experienced it.....but still we allow them go. We warn them of the dangers knowing full well they will experiment with things anyway. But we don't lock them in the house and never let them experience it. That is true love.....and God is the ultimate parent. Just my opinion on the matter
true words. I also thougt about this hard, and my thoughts to this question are: Imagine God created a perfect world without any sorrow or evil. We could never appreciate the eternity where we would only knew good and pleasure. Adam and Eve couldn’t appreciate a good world without knowing evil and what they have lost. But imagine entering a perfect world, after we lived a life in a world full of evil, trouble, effort, sorrow, illness, pain. You finally know what is good, what is love, what is happiness. We could never appreciate Gods Love for us, if we didnt see how he poured out his blood for us trough his son Jesus Christ. ❤
I think he wanted to be like God and anyone who wants to be like God will automatically sin against God because God is Holy And is the embodiment of all that is Good so when Lucifer desired to be like God and he broke the first commandment of God. And because Lucifer desired to be like God who is Holy he will become sinful.
I may be grasping at straws here, but if we take into account Isaiah's suggestion that we turn to sin when God cloaks himself from us and the belief that Lucifer wanted to be like God, could it be that Lucifer, at first so full of love for God, suddenly found himself shocked and hurting and reeling at not being able to perceive God's presence and as a response tried to make himself LIKE God? Kind of like how a lot of women tend to seek out romantic relationships that model the relationship they had with their earthly fathers?
That's exactly what Adam and Eve tried to do in eating fruit that came from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" at the Garden of Eden, which was forbidden. God punished both of them along with their descendants for committing their ultimate sin, Pride.
Ezekiel 28:15- Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. You're both right and wrong, because our spirits are made perfect at salvation THROUGH Jesus.
Peyton Singh I agree (and just freely stating my opinion) with the fact that when you are saved, you go through a process of sanctification (a process in which we are being perfected) until Christ comes. But we still sin everyday, therefore it does not make us perfect and holy, which can only be attributed to God.
Peyton Singh After a person becomes born again, their human spirit as pertaining to its own self nature is not born again or made perfect, and is still prone to sin. However their spirit is born again and save through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit ( salvation is something that is initiated through faith, but there is still the destination to reach also, by continuing in the faith. So it is also an under going process that still require our faith until our spirits are made perfect at their absence from the body and are present with the Lord).
Everything happened in the garden the way God, the all knowing creater God wanted ut to, he created them all just the way he wanted them. Why did he do it? Because he wants us to learn to instinctively choose good, and he already had cows.
I think the absence of God is a perfect answer John. It displays perfectly our error in believing that we are owed something or that God is in the wrong when he is absent. It perfectly displays his grace (which we do not deserve) and his mercy (which he shows us without ever having to) I lean to think we tend to hold a view that we are deserving, and is that true? Did God have to create me? Did he have to ever create man? I think he did so from his goodness and mercy. If I was never created I wouldn’t even have an opinion of God. I wouldn’t matter. I think we can see that God graciously created us to love us. To have someone to love. His absence from any single being would lead to destruction. And if that is how God brings forth sin, (Through absence) then who’s to argue? Arguing that would be assuming God had to create you and give you an explanation for all things as if someone is holding a gun to Gods head forcing him to. I think that is a horrible way to view creation. As if he had to create us. He never had to. He did so willingly and graciously. Think of all the wonderful moments you’ve shared with him and with loved ones. Even through the hurt and the pain. We have an amazing God.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. When I asked myself about this passage of scripture I instantly thought to myself it was Satan who created evil but then a question arose in me that opened up doors: When has Satan ever created anything ? Then I realized in order to use words like "form" and "make" , one has to be present, but you don't have to be present to "create" something, for example ; when the head of the household is gone(absent) the children go astray(evil). The absence of God definitely explains everything for me from how God created us to God telling Adam to choose the tree of life. God just doesn't exist and that's it, there is a government and an order behind His existence and apart from that which is the absence of God , there is just the opposite which is chaos, calamity, darkness and evil.
I respect any person that says they do not know when they really don't know.
I agree.. I honestly believe there are some things we will never understand and is not meant for us to understand. God said his ways are not our ways and even the most wisest among us barely touches the surface of Gods infinite wisdom.
Unfortunately, that is something theists almost NEVER say.
@@nicholasflamel1134 Nicholas, your standard of evidence is begging the question, so do you really have the right to be speaking here?
@@MaD-hp9hq What? I never said ANYTHING about "standards of evidence" in this thread. What are you even responding to?
I have the right to speak anywhere I want to, and there is nothing you can do about it. You will just have to grow up and get over yourself.
@@nicholasflamel1134 What, you don't remember me? And sure, you can say what you please, but you can't be justified in criticizing theism as you just have when your own epistemology is fallacious. If you remember me from the other thread, you ought to know that if you deny this, I will debate you on the topic, because you have demonstrated already that it is the truth. You cannot verify your sense-perceptions empirically, because empirical evidence comes forth from sense-perception. I won't accept your question-begging and then criticizing others as if your standard of knowledge is coherent.
It's so nice to hear a Pastor say "I don't know"! So many pastors have too much "pride" to say that...
Wise words from a wise man... Obviously enlightened by The Holy Spirit! All glory to The Most High God!
Let your heart not be troubled. God's plan is invaluable, and He is in TOTAL CONTROL!
Keep the faith and keep fighting the good fight!
God bless and take care...
GodBless AndTakeCare, I know how it all came about, firstly you have to understand logic. Everything you know about Lucifers fall, I feel it’s all wrong, just remember the person talking in this video is for the first time telling the truth. That’s because he does not know the logical way of understanding it. So only you understand logic will you know how he fell. Then I can explain the whole thing.
@@lt7227 * Hello my friend, and thank you for taking the time to reply... You have definitely peaked my curiosity. Please continue... I'll send you my email address if you would rather not go into detail on a public forum...
God bless you and yours my friend, and take care...
GodBless AndTakeCare hi how’s it going, firstly I would like to say thank you very much for the reply. You sound like a very good person. Ok just so I know who I’m talking to could you please tell me a bit about your self. I am a father of 3 married and live in Australia. I love these type of topics and I feel I know a lot, like some of the things I’ll tell you, will either shock you or Amaze you. This is why I mentioned before that you have to understand logic, so please if you can tell us s bit of your self.
GodBless AndTakeCare sorry forgot to mention, yes email would be good if you can please send it.
@@lt7227 Hello again and greetings from Las Vegas Nevada, USA, my brother in Christ! I'm 55 and have 2 boys 35 and 30, and have a story that Hollywood wouldn't believe. I can go into more detail later if you're interested. My email is as follows. 777GBATC777@GMAIL.COM
Thank you, friend. I hope to hear from you soon...
God Bless And Take Care
Just know that whatever God revealed to us is sufficient at this point of time and we are accountable for that he revealed to us
That's one way to avoid the problem.
@@christopherskipp1525a copout statement!
Thank fuck it’s all a fairy tale because that was a load of lies😂
i think the time is up
Amen! Amen! Amen! Ugh, so good!
"I dont know" is sometimes a very good answer.
Yes too many people try to sound clever rather than being honest
Especially when there is no evidence for your god existing, and you are just PRETENDING to know things you do not know...
@@nicholasflamel1134 can you PROVE God doesn't exist?
@@goudagirl6095 Can you PROVE the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist? No? I guess you must believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster then, right? That is YOUR logic after all, isn't it?
That is NOT how logic and reason works. There is no reason to believe in things you have ZERO evidence for just because you can't prove they are NOT real. Otherwise you would have to believe in every crazy thing anyone ever suggested the existence of. Use your brain.
@Nicholas Flamel why would anybody want to prove the existence of the flying spaghetti monster??Unless you worship it as a deity or define it as your god!? we know atheists aren't that stupid
My answer to this, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Deuteronomy 29:29 ESV
Amen
That's a really good answer. Thanks
That's not even your answer
@Gina Farrell I hope it is not certain, because I sincerely don't wish to bow down to the God of the Bible.
Preaching the gospel-that person cursing God (capitol G) should be cursing the adversary not God.
Why is someone on this channel in the first place? There are no coincidences......God be with you always.
🙏🏼❤️😊
I'm not that familiar with John Piper but from what I've heard so far, i'm impressed with his humility and honesty.
John 8: 44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it
Was Saran not created from the beginning EVIL.
GOD created Satan perfectly, thus God God created him Evil.
Why did God created him Evil?
If God did not then we would not know what GOOD was.
Your comments appreciated
I love my FATHER in HEAVEN and my Lord JESUS..
Amen🌹
SuperLineman77 really man? Lmao
SuperLineman77 If you don’t believe in him why are you in this video? Everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. He has come to save us yet you won’t receive him or do u believe in him?
SuperLineman77 it’s nonsense in your opinion, but in the return of Jesus remember what you have said today.And I’m not ending anything I’m starting, there is no reason I should end religion just bc something bad happened bc of religion. And ppl who believe in god don’t make rules they follow the rules that’s set and it’s called the 10 commandments. But remember there is no forgiveness if u aske when he arrives bc you should’ve been prepared first.
SuperLineman77 how was earth here how was the first person in your family made. And god also listen to my prayer and did as I wished.
It seems to me that jealousy almost always plays a role in sin. What say you all?
Lucifer was created too beautiful, too wisdomized, too perfect, too powerful that he himself was too impressed... having free will to either stay faithful to God or just do his own thing he decided to serve himself... and convince 1/3 of the Angelic Realm to do the same thing....
We on earth practice exactly the same thing.... 🙏
It was pride that caused him to sin
@@dejesus47
Sad but so very true...
One huge difference though..
God sent us as human beings a SAVIOR,,,
NO SAVIOR for the fallen Angles...
Unfortunately for them its game over upon christ second coming........
While we humans can repent........
If we choose to......
@Allen_ 85 yes the human ego is hard to deal with at times......
@the Dark the source Lol
I have never listened to a Christian speaker better than Pastor John. You are a true teacher for God. YOU are something special. Thank you.
Listen to Paul Washer.
Hey Mr not so Golden...nah...never mind...go back to sleep...
@@bobvadney7240 Thank you for sharing your amazing intellect. Very inspiring.
@@bobvadney7240 tf?
If we did not know evil then how could we know Truth
Short answer: God is never wrong and he's always right.
e
@@teku4180 I don't think so
Hmm I wonder if that's right cuz he did once regret creating humans 🤔🤔🤔
@@levernis5753 it was a sorrow for the outcome
@@travis6694 right bro God bless you
I’ve thought about this question before as well. My only logical answer I could think of is that god also tested his angels in heaven by allowing them to know what the opposite of good was. Not by anyone’s actions but just the knowledge of it in their mind. God never has sinned but I’ve always thought that maybe he just allowed them to know what evil is so that they could be tested by having a free will choice to choose if they ever wanted to commit any of it.
That would be consistent with how God runs things and it's accepted that this is most likely why he will let out Satan to deceive the Nations once more after the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus. Angels have free will like humans do and I'll bet they went through the same thing and Satan was likely that "fruit" for the 1/3. What led Satan to do it though? The most accepted answer is his pride in his beauty and power. But it's true that no concrete explanation is spoken upfront.
You read in the bible that Satan wanted to rule over the mercy seat , not just protect it, he was a Cheribum (was to protect the mercy seat,), he was made quite beautiful , and with free will ..he decided he wanted to be like like God..his pride was the first sin..he was thrown out and took 1/3 with him..he is still being held until the time he is kicked from heaven.
@@melodeekielich Until then he still roams the earth and the heavens as far as we know.
Idk.. I feel like why let the angels know there is an alternative when they have no known thought. Thats like having sex for the first time.. You're gonna wanna keep on trying it, but when you were a kid, u had no knowledge of the feeling.. idk, this is too much when we gotta keep playing the guessing game 😢
Sin cannot exist in heaven, it doesn't make sense.
John Piper certainly is storing up heavenly wealth for himself! Thank you John, I have learned so much from you.
You cannot store up heavenly wealth we are all saved by grace and are equal in heaven
@@piefacemms8546 Yes, but each of us get rewards according to the works that we’ve done!
Why? Isn't God determining everything John does? He cannot resist, correct?
@@georgebradley4583 the apostle Paul said we are saved by grace not by works
@@piefacemms8546 Of course. But it also says man is to store up for himself heavenly treasure.
"Then the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind: Who is this that questions My wisdom with such ignorant words?" (Job 38: 1,2)
We all.are.prideful and most of us rather we like it or not are fallen angels
Adam and Steve is the reason why Steven was stoned to death☠💀🚺
Deutronomy 29:29The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. Enough has been shown to us for our salvation through Christ and Gods love to humanity, to see that no one perish in foolishness.
Which children? Why has it NOT been fully revealed why demons can reach Earth?
This is addressed to humans so its the children of the humans. Take your body for example you go to the doctor for he or she knows the body better that you. Its is the same with the mysteries of God. A teacher of the law of moses by the name Nicodemus comes to Jesus with questions and at last this is what Jesus says to him, I have told you of earthly things and you do not understand what if I told you of heavenly things. Look up Alan Horvath- All Graven images and also Demonic Stronghold by him also. To know God you focus your mind or thoughts on God and thats why David said may the meditaion of my heart and the words of my mouth be acceptable in thy sight. The more you seek and read God's word the more you behold God's beauty and excellence.
God is so good that someone (lucifer, a high powerful angel) wanted God's position. God is so good and allowed Himself to be challenged. Being challenged permitted Him to show parts of His character -- merciful, forbearance, forgiveness...
Dana Smith I dont think God needs to create a challenger to challenge him to bring out his characters other than love. God is all knowing. U make it seem like God learns as he goes, which is very very wrong thing to think
I heard that story before but where does that story come from?
@@UBUOK104 Could you be more specific in "that story".
Satan rebelled against God for a reason. You don't just decide you want someone's power and authority without an explanation. You usually want it because you disagree, you have better ideas or because that person has done you wrong.
Does God not inflict pain onto others?
God isn't exactly what he's cracked up to be if you ask me. For someone who's so perfect, he's pretty selfish and lazy. For someone who knows all he's quite the piece of shit.
@@ericdufresne6991 You sound like a dumbass
Here’s my thoughts on matter. The original Sin was born from taking something that is good in its original form but when one delves to much of something even if it’s good originaly then that good become evil.
For example wanting to provide for your family because you love them- good
Robbing a bank in hoping to provide them a good life and education. - good now evil
Satan may have wanted to attain power and wealth which Itself may not be a bad thing. But when his desire for power makes him want to equal God his actions become sinful
Thanks for your insight into this issue. I myself have been struggling over this issue for some time now. Yes, it looks as though by God hiding Himself from Satan and not letting His light shine upon him led to Satan’s act of evil. But if that is true, then it means that Satan had the capacity to commit evil in him all along. If this is so then evil has always been here but kept under control by God. Does this then mean that free will is what allows evil to exist. It would seem so. It is ultimately our choices that determine who we are and our eventual salvation or demise. The bigger question is why didn’t all of the Angels join Satan in his rebellion if evil was and is in all of them? It doesn’t make sense that only Satan and one third of the Angels rebelled. None of it makes sense to me. This question about evil remains unanswered for me. I am trusting in the Lord that it will all be revealed in the end, or not. Nonetheless, I remain steadfast in my faith in God that He is in control. Praise His name
Yes, it's almost like, on some fairly key topics about the origin of evil, and of free will the book has, ah, OMISSIONS?
That might have been usefully examined, compared to pagetime spent on the game with Solomon, Samuel, and all those dead children and livestock?
All I will say is IF God CREATED EVIL 👿, then how could ANY PART OF CREATION ESCAPE IT???
I’ve often believed that, because God is Sovereign & Sinless the INSTANT that God created another being SIN came into existence simultaneously & synonymously, because According to the Biblical Scriptures, EVERY CREATURE THAT GOD CREATED CANNOT JUDGE NOR DESTROY GOD, because God is Omnipotent, Omniscient & Omnipresent & was here BEFORE EVERYTHING!!!
I can go further, but……..NAH!!! There’s no need!!! I really hope this & many other Biblical UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES will be FULLY explained at some point in time!!! But for the record what I think is that God is the CREATOR of EVERYTHING INCLUDING EVIL, because IF God didn’t create evil, then GOD IS NOT OMNI!!!!
It is a mystery and I believe it will be revealed in the end. Many things will be revealed in the end that are mysteries to us now. Maybe it’s hidden because our brains cannot comprehend certain things that God does and can do. I believe the Lord hides things from us that he does not want us to know. He doesn’t have to reveal everything to us. I also don’t think it’s for us to worry or be concerned about. The only thing we should be concerned with is spreading the gospel and help in gathering souls. Praise the Lord. All I know is that the Lord is sovereign.
To some this may be heresy but my personal belief is that the voice of the devil was implanted to test humanity. I believe that creation is an experiment, not a determined outcome. I completely reject determinism as it is incompatible with free will.
Well we do not need to question it because it just *happens* to be so! Who knows the mind of the Lord? Praise God!
I think this best way to wrap our minds around this is to propose this question, how do you know if someone loves you without the ability to hate/disregard you? How do you define true allegiance without the ability to rebel? This is why free will exists. Ezekiel shows the prideful fall of Satan. Pride ALWAYS separates from God. Why does God allow this, I believe Romans 9:20-22 helps. 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? But God judged the angels right away....why? Judgement varies based on the degree of revelation. Angels had full revelation from the beginning of who God is. Every demon knows who Jesus is when they see him. We operate on faith: the hope of things longed for the certainty of things unseen. That's why we, the faithful will some day judge even the angels. God never causes evil but allows it to exist because there is no measure of what "good" truly is without it.
Shane Hilligoss Thank You!
Angels, humans, and sin have not existed forever. God has been good forever. What you're saying implies that God couldn't be certain he was good until evil came into existence. I think evil is just because of free will.
Shane Hilligoss I'm with you we think alike it has to be an opposite in life otherwise if it was just good it would be heaven on earth God knows what he's doing and everybody will get their answer when God calls for them God bless
Shane Hilligoss WOW!!! So eloquently said I’m going to remember this 👍🏾😀
Ok I agree with your statement so we are left with free will...so then we choose God, then why doesn't He reveal Himself to us as believers in such a way that would allow us to see CLEARLY what it is we are up against in this life? Instead we are left getting knocked about and left confused and hurt and end up shaking our fist at God because all the promises He makes in His word to be our refuge and our strength etc fail to be seen in our lives...this leaves us despondent and alone and many become so disillusioned with this life that we fall by the wayside ...more damaged and bruised and hopeless than before we came to Him. There is nothing worse than knowing how things 'should' be in Christ but never having that happen for you.. that's worse than staying in the world ignorant of what could be available to you!!!
he was the most beautiful angel God had created. His downfall is when he began to think of himself more than what he was and pride entered into his heart
Do you have any textual references for your view of satan being the most beautiful angel, Bryan?
maybe that's what he understood in Ezekiel 28:17.
John 8: 44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it
Was Saran not created from the beginning EVIL.
GOD created Satan perfectly, thus God God created him Evil.
Why did God created him Evil?
If God did not then we would not know what GOOD was.
Your comments appreciated
We all understand that. But the question is : since he was fully in the presence of God, fully in his glory, had part of all the infinite benefits of being in the presence of God, and since he was perfectly created with a perfect heart, than how could his first bad desire, his first fault in the things that he desire appear ?
God is perfect, His glory is perfect, His purposes are perfect, the happiness and the peace that he provides are perfect. Then how an angel who were perfectly created, in a perfect environment end up having a bias toward evil, that is to say toward something that would destroy him and would make him unhappy, instead of keeping the infinite benefits of being in the presence of God ?
My humble response to that; God foreknew satan's fall. God allowed it to happen. And this sets up our free will. We aren't robots to the Lord. He doesn't want that. God wants us to to come to Him. Once satan sinned, then Adam, we can choose right or wrong. From satans fall, and Adams, we are locked into the first covenant. I feel that even from this whole thing, God knows us, and what we will do. And when Jesus Christ came on this Earth to die for us, death was finally obliterated by Jesus. So if you haven't experienced Christ yet, He's always there to save you and transform you're thinking, and you're life.
Cognitive dissonance at it's worst.
This doesn't answer the question.
How do you know what God wants. Some vessels are appointed to honor, some to dishonor.
WILLIAM GOODWIN , in you there are many vessels, some appointed to honor, some to dishonor and wrath. We die daily, this is the truth of death, it has become Victory. Death is swallowed up in Victory! The Word Jesus (Yeshua) means: Yehuah is Salvation.
Study The Scripture carefully, beware the doctrines of modern Pharisees. Some Pharisees were good hearted and wise, such as Nicodemus, but still his doctrines were false because he could not believe The Spirit.
If I spoke as a man I would speak humbly as Jon Slaten did. I speak not as a man now but rather boast in The Lord. I declare that in Jon Slaten hath The Lord edyfied you William. Hear Him, hear The Lord your God.
Child Boo ,Satan's world has put the concept of cognitive dissonance in your mind to deliberately cause you to fear your own honest thinking. Honest thinking is defined as thinking that agrees in Spirit with The Spirit Of Truth, to agree in flesh with The Spirit Of Truth is to be correct and honest at once.
Child Boo, do NOT listen to the ways of the world. They HATE you if you are of Jesus. They would see you never born of Spirit. Trust Jesus the Godman alone. Be careful with Scripture, be careful with preachers, be dead to wisdom so your wisdom may be born new and True, and be dead to the world of lies and thus alive in Christ; for He defeated The World. Believe that defeat and live it.
Just my thoughts on this but I do not claim to have full comprehension of God's mysteries, nor do I claimed absolute truths to my assumption, I only ask for respect if my ideas does not suit to yours.
I think the problem is with our definition of "Perfection" for since the Bible says that God created everything perfectly, including the Angels does not mean that all the thoughts and desires that arises since creation are from Him.
I think God's definition of perfect is not about the ability of not to do things against Him, but rather the definition of Perfect for God, is the ability to think and act free from the control of God, and that is how God created the Angels and humans and doesn't mean that the desires and actions of these beings are from God.
The only thing that differ us from the angels is that God created the angels for specific purpose that at the day He created them He showed them His mysteries, glory and power. And with this great power and responsibility that God had given to them also comes great consequences and that is why God did not offer remission for their sin of rebellion.
Their sin is not from God or from anyone but from them it is the result of their choices and will. Since they themselves saw the greatness, power and majesty of God there's no need for someone to convince them about the idea of becoming god, unlike humans where these fallen angels convinced man to become like gods which of course triggered the desire of man to become like one.
I believe that God created each of His creation with distinct purposes. For He is the Potter and His creation are His clay, He moulded us perfectly according to our purposes. But he is beyond responsible for our inner desires and inner thoughts for He has given this responsibility to each one of us and we will be held accountable for it, if then God is the author of this desire and thoughts then He would not have hold us accountable for it since it came not from us, but that is not so for He created us prefectly having full control of our own desire, thoughts and will.
But He is the all knowing God, thus He know what will happen or what will transpired in the future and He allows it not because He doesn't have care for us but because He saw that this will become a determination of our strength and our faith. We would not know what light is if we would have not seen darkness, we would not know what rest is if we haven't encountered struggle, we would not know good if we haven't seen evil.
And if God interfered in our own thought processing and decision making then God himself altered His own creation.
Unlike the Angels God offered remission of sins for humans since God have not fully revealed His mystery to us and we being innocent in Gods own eyes and not fully aware of the full consequences of our actions we therefore also fell from grace.
God is a just Father seeing His sons not fully aware of their sins therefore God rebuked us and scolded us for our mistakes thus he offered a way and promised to forgive us if only we showed full repentance , faith and trust on Him.
But does it mean that we are innocent and must be acquitted for that sin? No we are innocent in a sense of knowing the extent of God's wrath and punishment but we are Not innocent of the actions that we committed for God warned us well of committing those action.
We sinned not just because of the lies of satan but also the desire that we had of becoming like gods , and it blinded us from the truth and satan triggered that desire and we fell into his lies.
But is God to be blamed for this desires? No God created us perfectly so as to have control of our own thinking, desires and will.
Just like when somebody approach you and offered you something so great let say billions of dollars but the offer require that you must break the law for that offer to accomplish, and so by hearing that great offer, this desire within you burned so much that you will do the offer all just because of the desire of having billions of dollars. We humans have an innate nature of possessing greatness for ourselves and God has nothing to do with this and this evil man who gave that offered has no control over your desire and will. but because of your discontentment over what you already have, you desired more and higher thus the evil man persuaded you easily.
Because man has the desire of becoming like gods it was easy for satan to persuade man because the desire arises from within the heart of man.
Just as how this desire of becoming like gods burned into the inner of mankind so as to the inner of those fallen angels and after they realized that no forgiveness offered to them thus they planned to destroy and pollute other creatures too.
God created us (Angels and humans) not unto like robots for robots may seemed to be perfect but it's thinking and actions are dependent on it's programmer.
So I think the problem is not with God but our understanding of God and his creation and our comprehension of the definition of Perfection.
I maybe wrong about this, but as I struggled for years thinking this question, I prayed oftentimes to God to make me understand the things that I struggle in understanding and this one explanation pop-up in to my mind.
Jack that’s an interesting way to look at it.
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The problem will never be with God. God is righteous in ALL his ways and holy in ALL his works.
@Geoffrey Wright God is anything but holy LOL
This was excellent. Thank you
Highly respect John piper for his honesty of not knowing!! Somethings only god knows. Love these videos 👍
There's a misconception here: evil/darkness isn't a separate "thing" from good - its a resultant description of the privation of good/light. Much like cold isn't anything; its scientifically the privation of heat. So understanding the descriptive from the definitive, can help breakdown the question. There was and is always the capacity in existence - for there to be "will" at all - for privation. That's essentially freewill. For light to exist, a description of notlight must also exist - or discernment & identification cannot occur.
All that said, its merely a question of when did Lucifer choose and why? Considerations like "why God made evil" become nonsensical.
I was told that God has the power to foresee the future but does not abuse it when I asked why he created an angel who will turn against him at some point and be labeled Satan the devil.I guess that's how 'free will' comes into the equation.
Agree. God comprehended it beforehand. Amazing
"I don't know" is a beautifully humble answer here. We're all called to be humble when it comes to accepting there are things we are allowed to know (i.e. what's in the Bible), and recognizing things we have no business sticking our noses in (e.g. divination).
Pastor John says he doesn't know why but I believe he gave us the answer when he said it is because of Gods absence. God wishes that we all love Him with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind 'ALL of the time' even in His absence. I don't know about anyone else but I can feel when God withdraws Himself from me and these times are my hardest, especially when it comes to the temptation of sin. But He does this because this is when He wants us to love and trust in Him more. It is the trials He puts us through to test our love for Him. God be with you, and you with God.
The best explanation I've heard so far. God bless you brother John
Saying " I don't know is the best explanation? " lol. How about that God ordained evil. And that doesn't make God evil because God makes the rules on what is good and evil. That is the most logical answer. If man did all that slaughtering of people in the old testament without God's say so it would be sinful but if God says you can kill all men and children and keep the women then its perfectly fine. God makes the rules.
IMHO I think God made him so nearly perfect that Satan surmised he was near equal to God. Hubris!
So he decided to act similar to God but did not possess His selfless Love for the creation. Only his self agrandisment... praise. Which Only belongs to God...the father of Spirits.
@@jeanalice4732 probably should've posted this as a comment rather than to post it as a reply.
But that is essentially a huge error. It was inadvisable. Surely this could not shock YHWH? He knew the risk.
And not just to Him. But to many vulnerable angels, too. Then - humans, also.
Even not yet born ones. Defenceless, ones. All so Satan could develop a dangerous mental state?@@jeanalice4732
I loosen all earthly and evil desires from my life, the lives of my family, friends, colleagues, neighbours, acquintances, opponents and the body of Christ, while I loosen myself of every unequal yoke and common share with those who have evil desires, in accordance with colossians 3:5, 2 corinthians 6:14-18 in the name and blood of Jesus Christ, amen and hallelujah!
You should be careful about taking on the sin of people around You. Because then their demons will attack You. You should pray for God to change their heart instead.only God can do that. God bless ❤️🙏🏼
God is in control of everything. It's like figuring out how wind, star, sand, plants etc is created. We can't even unfold these simple things... But, the answer is God... in the Beginning God, he gets glory and we can't seem to accept it. However, he has given us everything we need to know about him.
GOD ALONE IS HOLY.
No one is powerful like him, he alone is sinless... Perfect! Yeah, that's a God who's worth of praise. Glory be to God. God bless you Pastor Piper.
Grace and peace.
God's allowance isn't indicative of causation - think about it: God created Lucifer as the brightest star, the most powerful angel created to bring praise to Him. He led angelic choirs with his gifts to the Most High, and one day - in his heart - he determined he wanted to be higher than the Most High. His free will transformed his desire to praise someone *else* to wishing for the praise to be his own.
From then on, we cannot argue that other angels didn't believe that he was powerful. That's why they fell - Lucifer with 1/3rd of the angelic host felt it better to rule in the pit than to praise God in the heavens. That's ego. That's pride. That's the opposite of what God's humility was shown us through Christ.
The bible isn't saying God literally hid his face from His creation, rather our will was not for our God. In my honest opinion, it was Lucifer's choice to praise himself. Will is not simply a label; it is what separates us from a pre-programmed machine: we have the choice to create new options for ourselves. The hardening of hearts was based on actions that humanity chose - although the scriptures state God allowed their hearts to be hardened and hardened them Himself, I believe that the Spirit is with me when I say this: the creation made its choice, and just as the bible says God allows the people their desire, even if that desire is not of righteousness, He allows rebellion for a demonstration of His own glory.
Summarily, the first sin was pride. Just as we cannot fathom God's love for His creation, we cannot comprehend the depths of angelic emotion - His pride, anger, and hatred is much stronger than any reality we've been exposed to. The answer was given in the bible:
You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God;... Isaiah 14:13.
Of course, I'm not saying this solves the mystery. Just that I've prayed for clarity on the matter for a long time, and after re-visiting doctrine of both angelic hosts, God Himself, and all that's implied within God's goodness and His grace, there is nothing evil that God has created.
Look at the Leviathan and the Behemoth, for example. Grace and peace, my family!
Being created in God's image and having a will is not just a label in my opinion but a reality with vast consequences. Let's say you have a son and a car. Your car is a machine with no will but your son is created in your image and he has a will. If you stayed too long at a mall, your son can walk away but your car won't because it lacks the ability to do so. Now, you can't have a relationship with your car but you can have a relationship with your son. This simple illustration shows us that having a will means you can choose from available options. Can you say there is a good without an evil ? Can you say there is light without darkness ? Can you understand wealth without poverty ? God said 'I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life'. In Isaiah 45:6 -7 ". . . I am the Lord and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things'. Throughout the Scriptures, we see God demanding that we shun evil and pursue righteousness because that is His nature and that is what he wants for us. Since creation began, some (referring to both Angels and men) have chosen evil and have faced the consequence which is God's wrath while some have chosen righteousness and enjoyed the benefit of intimacy with God. Let's look at the example of the Lord Jesus. He was born without sin and lived a sin free life but he was tempted. As a matter of fact, he was led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirt to be tempted by the devil and he overcame. You may not want to agree that good and evil are 'ultimate' realities because it leads to an uncomfortable conclusion about the origin of evil but we must rejoice in the fact that God has given us the power to overcome temptation and live above sin through the Power of the Holy Spirit working in us to discern and reject evil when we see it.
Young King Simba Jesus is Lord over all. Satan does not rule in the pit nor does any angel
Ayowande Adeyemi I think for the person who feels it necessary to name the name of Calvin you’re somehow Robbing god out of some glory By saying free will is the definition and not just a label that is to maddening assessor data say that you’re free will is only the desire that God gives you to do good supposedly is I guess Edwards seven
Young King Simba I couldn't say it better I'm with you perfect if not that's the close its going to get you think like me God bless
Young King Simba True. When a man has an earnest desire to seek his own path outside GOD, and deep in his heart yearns for his own desires, after much admonition, GOD may leave him to his own strong desire (reprobate mind). Very clearly stated in Romans 1.
In other words, those whose hearts are hardened already have by their impulses, departed from GOD's will in their heart, and desire strongly their own ways.
I just came across this. I was amazed at the humility and honesty! ♥🙏 I don't know how this popped on my screen while I was browsing cooking clsses. This very question I asked my religion teacher who happened to be a nun as I studied in a convent when I was 8 years old and the nun had no answer so she replied. "If the Bible troubles you don't read it" I never read the bible for then next 22 years!
This question is so mysterious & I like to call it dark sided that it kept me away from God for 22 years. I can never forget this question till TODAY!
This question took me down memory lane.
I loved this answer .. amazing job. Thank you & may God bless you for what you do 🙏
What a terrible thing for that nun to say
John 8: 44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it
Was Saran not created from the beginning EVIL.
GOD created Satan perfectly, thus God God created him Evil.
Why did God created him Evil?
If God did not then we would not know what GOOD was.
Your comments appreciated
Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."
This one got me thinking...I like the idea of the absence of God caused the sin. This is one of those questions that will have to be answered with no doubt only in death. One day, we'll understand xD
"God's absence" would be no different than Him directly causing it - indeed, it would be the exact means of causation.
The absence of God is darkness... because God is light. That being said, there is a lot of darkness in this world... does that mean God is completely absent? Not at all. We as humans looooove to be "in control".. so we can't really sit here in the comments and complain about how God allowed us to have a choice.
If "God's absence" is what caused our choices, as John Piper's idea suggests, we didn't actually have a choice.
Chicken Joe 89
TheCrushmaster: Well with no way outta sin, we were stuck without the freedom of the cross. Sin is a choice for our flesh...but at some point without the cross, we loved our cycle of sin
God is NOT the author of CONFUSION!
Dean Toney and yet....here people are confused
Anthony Lowe ok... and? Lol
But God created all..His words not mine.
Again for all who don't get it.
Isaiah 45:17 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Again His words not mine.
God did create all. He created evil, but there is a distinction between giving someone the ability to oppose the creator and being the cause or tempter of the evil act.
I don't know the word of God like the back of my hand, yet, but heres a thought: "Maybe the starting point of sin is a mystery because The Lord wants us to trust in him through faith in him which requires us not know the whole picture? Another thought: The Lord is perfect in all his ways and is enteral and is therefore infinite so us limited creatures cannot even begin to comprehend his perfection in all his ways without him. Without him we are nothing." What do you think?
all i know is that God allowed everything, for Him to show His love for us ❤️
You don't actually "know" anything you just said. You have ZERO evidence that your god even exists.
@@nicholasflamel1134 you don't need evidence to know the most basic of all reality.
@@MarcosBetancort If you have no evidence for something, it does not qualify as being real. You have no evidence for fairies, goblins, and gremlins. Are you naive enough to think they are real? How gullible are you exactly?
@Steven Irizarry No. You have your logic completely backwards. You do not get to call something a "creation" until you have evidence of a "creator". The natural world is only evidence of the natural world. You have ZERO evidence for your invisible god.
@Steven Irizarry Yes, you are incorrect. I'm glad we agree about that. You have presented ZERO evidence for your invisible god and are LYING and PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
It was possible for Satan to sin because Satan is a created being given free will, and all created beings lack one thing that only God possesses: Holiness. Revelation 15:4 says, "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy." God alone is perfectly holy and therefore perfectly righteous and sinless. That means everything else apart from God has a tendency to sin and to fall into its curse UNLESS God seals that creature with His Spirit, which He does to those who believe in His Son, Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:13).
You have no evidence your god exists and no evidence for ANYTHING you just said being true. Stop PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
Jericho Leon Perfect answer. I believe, too, that the holy Spirit is the answer. Those that are believers have the holy spirit, something that Lucifer did not have. Now, we who join the Lord in our spirit form will be paired with the Holy Spirit which is within the Holy Trinity. As such, we will no longer be capable of sin and there will no longer be temptation from the devil as we have it here on Earth in our natural form.
Nicholas Flamel And, likewise, you have no evidence that he doesn't. In fact, there is more"evidence" as you say, existing that proves his existence, than not. For example, the big bang theory - the way it is described - backs up how the Bible says everything was created. God said "Let there be light" and it was so. In deed there was a big bang (which was when God, the Creator, spoke everything into existence), however, a part of the big bang theory is missing just one element. And that is, the "Who" caused it, because they've ascertained that light is where the particles that created the universe formed in the first place. You, my love, are a lost sheep and I pray you let your shepherd pull you into his flock and you are shown the path to salvation.
Thank You!👏👏👏 The Best and Most Common Sense Answer.
Jericho Leon If god is Holy and sinless why would he create Lucifer knowing he would rebel and destroy and pollute mankind?
Thank you pastor John! Finally, an honest and direct answer to a question that has been asked countless times. I liked the analogy of the shadow caused by the tree when exposed to light. Light was blocked by something that prevented it from reaching the ground and thus a shadow is created. Yet the presence of light is what the caused the shadow in the first place. Thank you for posting this video.
I play video games and I tend to explain things using video game analogy. To me God is like the developers of a video game. They decide the rules, they create the world we play in, they are in control of the final outcome, they decide the heroes and villains, they write the story, etc… To me God created everything and He decides what is good and what is evil. If He says that something is good then it will be considered good and something is bad then it is considered bad. The logic behind it is in God’s mind only. Just like the developers of a game decide which action lead to the success or failure of a quest. The same actions that work for one quest may not work in another quest. So I find that good and evil are not concepts that exist by themselves and God chose to be good. God created what is good and what is evil. Therefore, He is beyond good and evil and this is why we cannot determine what is good or evil by ourselves. Only God can tell us what and when something is considered good and what and when some is evil. He created the game. He created the rules in the game.
In my mind I always felt based on what happened in the Garden of Eden, when satan tempted Adam and Eve, it was his direct hatred toward God. From first of all disagreeing with the fact that God made humans to rule the Earth and have a relationship with us, something the angels don't have...I feel satan questioned God's reasoning as to why we were given a level of authority over the angels and was made from the dust the earth; (low to satan) lucifer the light bearer..the famous praise and worshiper who covered the Throne of God (Cherubim) which is the upper class of Angels, and with that kind of power, anointing and wisdom, I'm convinced at that point he was OFFENDED at the thought of God's plan and purpose through man...if Adam and Eve had've rejected the temptation of satan then they would've went from glory to glory; then displaying the perfect image and glory of God and God would've dwelt with them on Earth..this may have rubbed Lucifer the wrong way and made him feel like God wasn't satisfied with the way things have been in Heaven all that time..He got offended, prideful, resentful, hardened and then he was too far gone to even repent...blinded by his ambition and disagreement with His father's plan. (Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor." Ezekiel 28:17 Pride comes before the fall. He felt too good and important to lower himself to man. Thus questioning His Father's right to rule.....
I always felt that when Frodo was given the ring of power, he should have left Sam behind to keep him safe from the Orcs.
You are believing in ridiculous fairy tales for no good reason. You have no evidence your god even exists. Much less that he created some conveniently vanished garden with magic fruit trees and talking snakes.
@@nicholasflamel1134 you haven’t learned enough or done enough research yet. If Christianity is true would you become a believer?
@@HealthySkepticism777 Ok, you are claiming that YOU know of evidence proving that god exists. Why didn't you say what it was?
I will call your bluff. I don't think you have ANY evidence that god is real. I think you are just making baseless claims because you believe ridiculous supernatural things for no good reason. Prove me wrong. Present you BEST evidence for god so we can verify it.
The closest explanation I have is during the 1000 year reign of Christ, the people who survive will have no doubt that Christ is real but still Satan gets released to tempt the nations once more.
To me it says that any being with a choice can make the wrong one despite knowing God is real.
I’m just thinking out loud here so don’t get angry at me....teach me.
thats true...adam and eve knew God was real...yet satan tempted them...these days due to sin in the world many doubt his existence faith is the first step to salvation without faith why would any obey...but after faith obedience is step two the lack of obedience to God is what caused the fall
I agree with your second statement and would add that “choice” implies the presence of at least two options. If the first choice is up, then logically the alternate choice is down. So, if there is legitimate free will, then the opportunity to choose from good and evil has to be present.
Another thought - without free will, creation could never truly love the Creator - or at least that love would never be genuine.
@@seanmanahan477 true - Adam & Eve had a choice between receiving sustenance from the Tree of Life or the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
If God hides from us, He is the actor there, He is the cause, He is departing from us.
John, I think your explanation of Satan's incipient desire to do evil was very reasonable. I have wondered about this very thing myself. If I am correct, God was absent when Eve and Adam were tempted too. God's absence is implied when after Man's fall God visits them in the Garden and called out for them. So, I too think Satan was most likely deprived of God's immediate presence. I am not sure a Person could sin while they are in the immediate presence of God. I especially liked your explanation because it is comforting to know that God is in control even when we are experiencing darkness and contradiction from every side.
When the screensaver is mesmerizing
🤤lol
Within the counterbalance of creation is God's perfect duality. We are surrounded by it everywhere. Day/night, male/female, the sun/moon, etc. Even a tree has a reflection of itself underground.
So where there is righteousness and perfection there must also be self worshipping and chaos.
Truly, we know nothing of heavenly matters. So let us follow his instruction when he said, " Be still and know that I am God".
One of our pastors once said that if the bible is silent about a specific issue, then we should not be wiser than the author. Lets just ask God about when we get to heaven 😊😇
Regarding some questions, I rest upon the simple and irrefutable fact that God is God, and I am not.
Faith is not just faith in Jesus Christ and also the things we learn from God through scripture, but it's also faith that God is in control, and that includes control over the things we don't know.
Oh!
Excellent, Mr Piper.
I have opposed a lot of your teachings and views, I still do
But this one is class!
Pure gold.
Weldone man.
Praise the Lord.
Isaiah 45:7. God said, "I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the LORD do all these"
Katherine Poindexter please don’t take this verse out of context and go an understand what the term evil implies here. Are you telling me that God created the evil and He Himself is not evil? I would be careful of who you make God out to be - when God created everything in the creation account, He said “it was good” can you say that evil is good?
I fear for you, if you think God caused sin.
@@godschild6417 for Pete's aches...she didn't say "Gwad is a sinner just like you and me" she said that the Lord told us through Isaiah that HE CREATES these things.
God's Child Well he created Lucifer and Lucifer destroyed the world.
@@joshuapierre2613 yap GOD created Lucifer perfect in his habitation ,Lucifer created satanas because disobedience.
God bless
Christian
Christian Anderson What ? Lmao
I really like that answer. Not just the "I don't know" but also the possibility that it was "God's concealed glory."
Jesus said, "Not that anyone has seen the Father except He who is from God; He has seen the Father." Likewise, we are told that the Father dwells in unapproachable light, and that if anyone should see Him they would die. Even the angels in heaven hide their faces from God, saying "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!"
The highest law of God is to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. If Lucifer honored this, he would not have fell, because he would have simply obeyed every word from the Lord and counted it glory for God.
However, if his love was such that he desired to not only see the face of God, but also that he desired to suffer in the place of God, then he would be setting himself against the will of God. Is it sin to desire to see God's face? Is it sin to desire to suffer in God's place? I imagine that if this is what sparked Lucifer's rebellion, then it would have been his best argument to convince the other angels. Perhaps even an idea that if angels mingled with man, then they might partake in the righteousness of Christ, and so earn the privilege of seeing God face to face.
I'm not saying that is how it happened, but Piper offered up a good enough guess that he really got me analyzing it. God could see the one who would be called Satan from the beginning, so why did He create Lucifer? If God knew that any desire would be so great it would cause one of his angels to sin, why would he not lessen that desire? I know that for us, I can't imagine the Lord would desire we love Him less, or that we should not desire to lay down our lives for Him. How much greater would those desires be if we dwelled with Him in heaven?
This is perhaps not a perfect explanation as to how Lucifer could sin, but it does avoid placing the root of sin on God, I think. Let me know what you think, or if you think this explanation still implies God created sin.
I've heard this reason from a Catholic and find this the closest answer to this baffling question : All good comes from God and the desire to do good. God did not give Lucifer the desire to sin but God tested all the angels by taking away some of the grace that kept them holy. So the absence of God's grace and presence in us, causes us to falter and worse when we are distracted by something else apart from God that is attractive. Lucifer had more reason to sin bec he was also distracted with his own glory once the test way underway and God withdrew some of His grace.
All I can say is I'm okay with being ignorant, sure I'm curious but I don't want to question God or his judgement. God knows, AND it's none of my business, if I needed the answers God would make sure I knew. :)
Amen, that my friend is True faith. God Bless!
Very well put, the best comment in this thread!
Ignorance is a sin
@@dailybread2708 ignorance is not an excuse too commit sin, is the child who cannot read or hasn't been taught the good word a sinner?
God is the author of all things everything ever created is a part of God's divine plan which revolves around us has to be done God's way for his plan to come to past God can destroy Satan no problem and take us all straight to heaven and we all live happily ever after we know God can do that why it's done this way I don't know if it's in Gods plan for me to know then I would know
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that who ever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord and savior amen 🙏
Who tempted Lucifer? I've wondered this for a long time. If men/angels were destined to sin/fall anyways, wouldn't that render the whole test of whether we sin or not a false choice, or non-choice?
We're not destined to sin, we sin because of the prior choices of humanity that put us in the predicament where WE, humanity, invented deception. God is truth. God knows no deception and would not put deception into the world. That is satan's design. I suppose that makes me a dualist.
Satan feeds on the negative energy of sin and chaos, he is a parasite of goodness and creation. He will only triumph by us allowing it.
@Philip M "Humanity invented deception" How do you explain the snake deceiving before Adam and Eve sinned then?
Your father knew you would fail. But he lets you fail to test you, to teach you, to guide you, help you, love you thru it. You learn from this. And you love your father for being there for you.
As i understand from the pastor's response, evil is anything short of perfect goodness, just as darkness is the absence of light.
I thought Lucifer the anointed Cherub fell when through his pride , he decided he wanted to be worshipped like God. Wouldn't that have been his first sin.
The question I think is not what happened, as you said; but why it happened.
Yes correct. He wanted to be like God or higher than God.
@@nightxryder3247 The Bible says he wanted to place himself higher than God!
In the O.T. he is associated with musical instruments and music...some teachers have taught that he was the worship leader in heaven...but when he regarded his own beauty, he thought that he was equal to God and he should be worshipped like God...so he stole some of the worship for himself and did not give all the glory to God. " The root of bitterness" was the cause of his downfall. Just look at his temptation of Jesus " All these kingdoms I will give you...if you bow down and worship ME "
The question is not what is the first sin but where does the desire to do so come from. It's a question about the origin(cause/influence) of a desire to sin. In Lucifer's case, where did the desire to walk in pride come from?
I think the first sin from(lucifer) was pride,vanity..because he was so beautiful..the Most beautiful of all the Angels..and that is what lead lucifer to sin.
Ezekiel 28:17. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; - v14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; v15 - You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. v16 By the abundance of your trading( in conversation) You became filled with violence within,and you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing.
In Ezekiel 28:6 it tells you all about lucifer and how God made him, how beautiful he was above all the other angels..till he was corrupted with idolatry.and what comes with that is pride,vanity and then idolatry..lucifer's downfall was he got wrapped in his beauty so much that he looked at himself as the beautiful creation and not thanking the beautiful Creator..I hope this makes sense.
God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Yes to this; and precaptivity, Isaiah gave a similar word in his 14th chapter. I'll leave you to see it for yourself, except for this; v. 13, For you have said in your
@@steevrush Pride comes before the fall. Satan's pride likely caused him to fall.
@@karenmessinger9609 Yes, and I'd take it a step further down the trail (of the truth), asking where or what was the cause behind his pride, that led him down an opposing trail? Exek. 28, met'inks, may/will/can be helpful in this regard?
@@steevrush He obviously thought highly of himself to the point that he thought himself equal to God. His beauty & abilities, knowledge that God gave him may have had him thinking he should be worshipped too. He really desires to be worshipped still. The bible speaks of Satan & his angels..I wonder sometimes if Satan got other angels to worship him hence them becoming his angels. Like God having His angels that worship Him?
I'd be interested in what you may think.
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.
God has KNOWLEDGE of good and evil so when he created the angels they also had the knowledge of good and evil and Lucifee (being the most beautiful angel) rejected the good and became the father of lies
This idea would make a lot of sense
GOD bless you all JESUS loves you all✝️✝️✝️
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
I form the light, and create darkness;
I make peace, *and create evil;*
*I the Lord do ALL these things.*
Isa 45:7
This is one of those verses that is contradictory to other passages within the 66 books of the canonized Bible.
'evil' is a mistranslation. Should be 'calamity'.
@@aaronwillis3659 No it's not. It means that God is just, so for there to be a reward for those found righteous in God's sight, there has to be punishment for those found wicked in God's sight.
Evil in this case refers to the punishment of sin, just as peace refers to the reward of obedience.
@Docbndgrl9113 You have ZERO evidence for ANY supernatural claim the bible makes. Stop PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
@@nicholasflamel1134 Who is this in response to?
It has a Spirital Explanation, which we can't understand as human flesh!!! If we really want to know the answer, Wé have To Live as Jesus Said!! And in Heaven everything Will be CRYSTAL CLEAR! Have Faith!
Makes sense! Because of our free will when we follow sin God covers his face & allows us to face the full consequences of sin only when we call on his name through the son that he shows his face to us & guides us out of the sinful life
You can disagree or whatever, but Thomas Aquinas's philosophy and paterology give an excellent answer to this. You would really need to understand his position to really get it fully.
But basically, God is fully good and fully perfect in an infinite qualitative sense. Nothing God creates is infinite in that sense. So nothing is infinitely perfect. It's only perfect insofar as it's purpose or teleology. So while God is incapable of corruption, as He is by nature good, anything God creates is NOT by nature good, and therefore capable of corruption.
Now, switching to a freewill and psychology. I'm going to explain what I think is the case for humans (briefly, Aquinas wrote better and a million times longer, so go read him if you want more of an answer) but I think something similar could be the case for angels. While we might not know for sure, we can at least hold to a framework where it's possible.
So, a free will is designed to choose the good. However, it is capable of mixing up what is the highest good. So if someone runs around punching people, it's because they think their own freedom to do what they want, is a higher good than your right to be left alone, or maybe they think since it makes them feel better, that feeling is good and it trumps the good of helping others. Whatever the case may be, for the most part, is the most insane people will have an excuse for why their action is justified, i.e., good.
From this, it makes sense that God's freewill, would never be mistaken because He is by nature good, and he is all knowing, and all powerful to accomplish what is good. However, anything finite with a free will, is not good by nature, it is only good insofar as it adheres to the teleos that it was designed for by God (a good dog, and a good angel and a good human are all very different. A human acting like a good dog is not a good human). So, a finite being, that is not goodness itself, that does not know everything and does not have all power (especially considering power struggles) it makes sense that we could be wrong about what is good. Nevertheless, we (and angels) are without excuse because we often know what is good, or we could find out what is good. Many times when people do something wrong, they purposely put out of their mind the ideas that make it obvious that they are wrong. For instance, you are thinking of stealing a cookie, and the ten commandments come into your head, so you shove that out of your mind and only think about how delicious a cookie would be. You choose to only present certain ideas to your will. Because you have a finite mind, you can do that.
So Satan could have seen that his power was good, and decided it would be better to have more power, as much as God's. And as a result, he rebelled against God. Or maybe, if Ezekiel 28:17 is talking about Satan this could explain what happened: "Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor." I think what people are looking for is how could this have happened? That's where I think Aquinas' framework can really help. Piper says no one has the answer, maybe not one he agrees with, and maybe not one exhaustively, but I think Aquinas got a lot closer than Piper let on! But I know Piper isn't going to be gung-ho about freedom in this sense. (Although some Aquinas scholars have pointed out that Aquinas; position on freewill is pretty deep and involves God determining the will, but I haven't done my own study to understand how that works, but there have been plenty of Calvinist Thomists over the years)
Whatever the case may have been, given this framework of freedom, infinite vs finite, and mixing up the goods, it certainly makes sense that a finite creation with freedom would have sin.
I loved your post and your perspective on the whole issue
This is my view too.This seems the only answer we have, but may I add something? To be able to give free will to His angels, God had to hide His glory so Lucifer being the most perfect angel created was the first one who fell. He was almost like God and this was the reason He fell. When he fell he turned against God, in other words, he completely denied the truth because God is the truth so Lucifer became Satan, the opposing force, the evil, the liar. Now, God did the same thing with Adam and Eve, He had to hide His glory from them but something more happened, Satan came exactly when they were alone and he tempted them, this is like an influence, but when Lucifer fell, there was no temptation, now things are different, free will became a choice between good and evil, before Lucifer's fall, there was no evil.
What a great, well thought out response. Thank you for this. It makes sense to me!
Good is perfect= No sin
We are not perfect = We will sin. If we did not we would be perfect, we would be like God.
A person acting like a good dog would not be a good human. A human acting like a good human is still not the standard of God.
@David Karingithi I see what you are saying. But what is sin? Sin is what God has defined as sin. So when God said "eating this apple is a sin" there was always 2 options- eat it or don't eat it. God didn't have to "create sin" but his rules defined what was sinful to Him.
@David Karingithi I suppose with such complex issues there are always questions still to be answered. Personally for me the explanation makes sense at this point in time but as I look furyher into it I may have more questions. It's nice to have a sensible conversation though in youtube comments!
As an eager student of the word and lover of christ, as curious as i am to understand this, i must conclude for myself..There's a reason we dont have definitive understanding/answers to certain things. After all, pride goes before destruction, and our striving to attain this knowledge in of itself could lead us to fall just as satan... So i believe the reason we aren't to know may actually be god protecting us from the pride of needing to know! In a way, he protects us from ourselves! After all, knowledge puffs up, but love builds up, our duty and privilege is to love, and we can do so with a healthy, reverential, faithful knowledge of god and his will, clearly presented in scripture, but most inarguably, trusting in jesus work of redemption for us on the cross. To a certain degree god allows us to attain knowledge, and apply biblical principles to our lives which inspires our delight in him and directs us rightly. Yet some knowledge may be forbidden to us, because we aren't god! Gods ways are higher than ours. (Isaiah 55: 8-9) God understands the deeper reality here, and this may not be for us to interpret fully, but that's okay, because god keeps us humble in our not knowing! (Ecclesiastes 7:16) Don’t be too good or too wise! Why destroy yourself?
Thank you for your wise and humble words Pastor John!
Even though I'm not a Calvinist I enjoy listening to your sermons and am blessed by it.
One question I have though:
Why should God has hidden His face from one of His most glorious angels - Lucifer - before he ever sinned yet?
The study of Ezekiel 28:12-19 (especially verse 17) and Andrew Murrays book "Humility" lead me to another asumption:
I believe that Lucifer was constantly looking at his own marvellous beauty so that he couldn't see God's glory anymore (why he did that is still a mystery though). But he couldn't not see God glory anymore, because He cloaked it from him, but because Lucifer fixed his eyes on himself - and not on God. He became totally self-absorbed.
In that state of self-centeredness he was in a self-induced isolation of God's glory that could have brought him back to the only rightful place of any creature - the place of humility and adoration of the Creator.
But because satan didn't behold God's glory, his pride could increase to a point where satan was convinced that he would be a better leader than God Himself! In this total delusion he started to rebel against the Most High - we all know the outcome...
So, dear brothers and sisters, let's not stop to seek His glory by focussing on ourselves!
Blessings to all of you :)
I believe when all of the angels lined up, bowed, and worshipped God, Lucifer caught a glimpse, being at the front, of what it was like to be worshipped and wanted the same. I think he hesitated when he saw Jesus, The Word, and thus saw all of the angels bow down at once and reflecting the beauty of God back to himself.
I think you might be onto something. Lucifer was the cherub that covered. On the Ark of the Covenant there are two cherubs facing each other, but there would've been a third cherub above the mercy seat, the cherub that covered. Like you said he began to covet the worship that belonged to God. During the Tribulation he's going to get the worship of most humans.
This.... for so long I've had this question and I've heard some answers that either make the question smaller than it is, or answers that don't hold up with God's character. Finally, The question was validated, and honestly there is comfort in hearing Pastor John say, "I don't know." Because I feel like that really is the wisest place to land ..... But we trust that God is good, and God is sovereign, and we rest in Jesus.
Without darkness no one would know what light is. If we are to learn how great a heavenly place is we need to make our way through darkness. Its duality.
That's just lame.
Praise the Lord
Sometimes I feel like everything including sin and the fallen angels are just part of God's theatre which He plays to our consciousness as the ultimate form of entertainment, and our job as the audience is to find the message in it
Personally, it does not matter what you IMAGINE to be true since you have ZERO evidence for gods, angels, or heaven existing.
@@nicholasflamel1134 Everyone here knows they exist.
@@HealthySkepticism777 Knowledge can be DEMONSTRATED, and you cannot provide one tiny piece of evidence showing that your invisible god exists. You are LYING and PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
@@nicholasflamel1134 I do know though.
@@HealthySkepticism777 Knowledge can be DEMONSTRATED, and you cannot provide one tiny piece of evidence showing that your invisible god exists. You are LYING and PRETENDING to know things you do not know.
Satan's evil proceeds from being self centered and narcissistic.
Satan demands omnipotence without earning it because he lacks omniscience. Power proceeds from knowing all things and proceeding upon the greatest possibilities for all creation - for others.
This in part is what ironically makes oneself great.
Love these sermons. So simple and easy to understand. Thank you I listen to every one.
Its does not take simplicity to understand. It takes GULLIBILITY. There is no evidence for god existing or for ANY of the supernatural claims made by the bible.
@@nicholasflamel1134 YOUR logic is FLAWED. imagine thinking simplicity and gullibility aren't compatible. Therefore YOU have LIED here, purely to serve YOUR EVIL heart. Stop PRETENDING that you cannot be SIMPLE and GULLIBLE. But....I'm not going to call you a pathetic fraud like you do to others. Merely a misguided soul
@@troywright359 I never said that simplicity and gullibility could not be compatible. Why LIE about what I said when everyone can still read what I said? I was pointing out that believing in things you have no evidence for is better described as being gullible, not being simple. They are two different words. There is a large book that might come in handy for you in the future. It is called a dictionary.
@@nicholasflamel1134 you sait it DOES NOT take simplicity to understand, that it takes GULLIBILITY. Why say it doesn't include one and then try to backtrack here saying you didn't exclude it? The intent was clear, you were not targetting 'simple' but 'gullible.'
@@troywright359 I can use words any way I want to, you pedantic, obsessive, creepy-ass stalker. No one gives a fuck whether you like it or not.
God if your reading this take away my pain & the pain of others, i give up i dont understand why i was given life only to die :'-(
Stay prayed up
We are sinful by nature which is punishable by death, so you and I will die, but since Jesus sacrificed himself to pay for our sin, (he paid the fine of our crimes) God blesses us eternal life after our death , repent and trust in Jesus!
Lucifer became pride of his rank and look. Obadiah 1: 3-4 Ezekiel 8: 12-18
I once hear that when God created humans in His image Satan became jeleous because the angels were not. Satan hated that humans that was created lesser than angels were created more "god like" - (I am not saying we are gods or better) but we are created in Gods image. We also had maybe privileges that the devil did not have and he became jealous. In Gods kingdom it always worked that the master must wash the servants feet, and the devil - like most angels are serving beings - had to serve humans and that is why he became rebellious. He wanted to be served. This is just an idea and not saying what I just wrote is the truth, but it makes some sens, and excuse my english.
Satan can't reproduce like us
Here is a further thought “there is no complete perfection without sin or the overcoming of sin”
@Jon Jensen let's connect, please.
I say this on the premise of the fact that the attachment you made in the comment can't be overlooked and a person who writes sense is a person whom I should get to know.
Alexandra,🙂
May GOD Richly Bless You For Being So Truthful Pastor! SHALOM AND AMEN!🌺🌺🌺🙏🙏🙏🇨🇦🇮🇱♾️🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅🗽‼️
I was thinking about this and had this thought, is it possible that lucifer did not *recieve* the desire for evil but simply chose evil out of his free will? Would this not in effect be the most vile and evil act possible, which would allow for the influence of evil in the future? Because truth cannot exist without the possibility of 'untruth' (right cannot exist without wrong), so the possibility for evil had to exist in order for truth to exist. So is it possible nothing *made* lucifer to rebel, he fully chose to rebel on his own volition (which really would make him the father of lies and evil)?
Barry Midikiner Obviously, if you haven't accepted that as a fact why are you even watching this video? We left square one a while ago.
Barry Midikiner Square one is the question of whether or not God exists, wrestle with that and then continue on to answering that question.
Barry Midikiner The answer for your second question is found in Jesus Christ. He fulfilled the ancient hebrew prophecies, and most importantly rose from the dead. His existence is verified in Roman and Jewish sources as well who regarded him as a problem and would have had no reason to make him up. Secondly his followers and hundreds of people saw him after he rose from the dead and his disciples risked comforts and even their lives to proclaim the gospel which has now been spread all over the globe. So too with Paul a Roman citizen and pharisee who initially persecuted Christians and then completely turned his life around to preach the gospel, risking the wrath of both the Jews and the Romans. Jesus lived, that much is historically corroborated, and we know he was sentenced to death (and the Romans prided themselves on completing their executions efficiently), and he was placed in a tomb with guardsmen so none would take his body and a huge stone was placed in front that could not be moved. Yet the tomb was still empty and Jesus appeared to hundreds of people. His teachings should logically have ended with his death, yet the church was established and has grown ever since. That too is remarkable considering the Roman persecution Christians faced in the 1st century. Why would these jews (and a couple if gentiles mostly jews) proclaim something so radical? They were ostracized by their jewish community and seen as heretics, they were persecuted by Romans, put to death even, renounced their former lives (like Paul, to proclaim the gospel), and got neither wealth nor comfort nor power from this. What then (if not Jesus) would lead them towards this kind of life? One might say that they were pursuing a moral route, something beyond this world (perceived at least) motivated them, but that would be going against the Judaic faith in which they were raised. At any rate this is the tip of the iceberg, for a more philosophical take I highly recommend 'Mere Christianity' by CS Lewis (or any of his books really, as a former atheist he has a very interesting perspective that someone raised in the faith might not, and there is also a book called 'The case for Christ' which you might find interesting.
As far as i'v read, God gave angels 'free will' just like us, but because Lucifer became PROUD due to his beauty, as stated in the BIBLE.
So PRIDE because he wanted to take God's place. Seems obvious really. It reads very clearly.
Babs Skett what verse says the angels had free will?
Been having some real struggles with this question and questions like it but this has settled me somehow, it kept seeming every time I’d try to find out things about free will and why things are how they are I would find people either saying they explicitly believe in free will or they believe in predestination of satan but both didn’t settle me, it’s good to finally hear an “I don’t know” on this subject because that stops me having to repress my confusion and end up doubting things I shouldn’t be
Would love it if these episodes were made available on written form.
"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength"
You have no evidence that your god is real. I would wait on trusting the "wisdom" of something until you can prove it is real.
You actually have no evidence that your invisible god exists. PRETENDING to know that he is wiser than us does not make it so. It just makes you a pretender.
@@nicholasflamel1134 The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will make you an athiest, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you. - Werner Heisenberg
(father of Quantum Physics).
Dig deeper and stop pretend you know more. I'm sure you couldn't even imagine a simple little piece of paper to come out of nothing, still you believe Everything has. Keep that belief if you prefer it, and let others have theirs. My faith isn't yours to care about. 🕊️🙏💕
@@nicholasflamel1134 And I heard you the first time, it's not like your second addition was any more clever and full of master class insights. It's sad you're so indoctrinated by the "proof society" of course you can't have any faith then. Look up what the leaders that tells you to not believe, believe in themselves and you might be in for a surprise...
@@shalona1974sweden First, Werner Heisenberg apparently never said that. fauxtations.wordpress.com/2016/08/29/heisenberg-at-the-bottom-of-the-glass/
Nothing comes close to the glory or holiness of God - He is pure - the fall was always inevitable - only Jesus' sacrifice covers our impurity in God's eyes.
God tempts no man.
Unless he temps a man.
God deos not temp, rather he allows temptation to come so that you can grow in endurence, for he works ALL thing for the good of his children@@willook9170
He does worse than that. he creates evil Isaiah 45:7, . Earlier in the old testament he's the one who hardened Pharoah's heart when Moses goes to plead for the release of the Israelites. God made it physically impossible for the Egyptian ruler to listen to Moses pleas/demands. God did this so he could quite literally throw his power around and plague Egypt. God took away the free will of the Egyptian king so he's be able to kill a whole bunch of Egyptians. We could mention the number of genocides he has committed, or commanded etc., but I'll bet you don't want to remember any of those things, especially the murder of babies by putting them to the sword, or bashing in their heads against the ground. You've got quite the lovely deity there. Then there's the rape of women that's found in Zacheriah, or even back to the beginning where God leaves a really naive Adam and Eve unattended in Eden, right near a really dangerous tree...planted smack dab in the middle of everything where it was easy to access(remember they have no working understanding of what death was, any more than a little child would) let the snake waltz right on in...remember God knows all, sees all and is everywhere, yet allows this fast talking used car saleman of a serpent to bend their ears, and gets angry when they are unsurprisingly suckered. God knew this was going to happen, yet let it . It was a set up or incompetence. god, being perfect couldn't screw up so it had to be on purpose so he could have a reason to torment humanity into fearing and appeasing him, jealous god that he is.
God creates the angels to be perfect being, and Lucifer is the best of this creation. They have no free will of their own though. Somehow God, who is perfect, creates another group of beings who are also perfect but without free will, and the best of them suddenly rebels, and manages to get followers???? How does something perfect create something else that is perfect and that perfections suddenly become imperfect? Not logical. All these stories prove that God isn't the perfect god he claims to be. he's a poor "father" and protector to his human creations. When humanity screws up, God is sorry he created humans at all. Perfect being don't make errors. Perfection means without error. First, when the new kids in Eden mess up, he blames them for it even though he left them ill prepared to deal with the serpent. he kicks them out, and in some fit of pique he not only curses all humans until the end of time with mortality and hardship, and emnity with snakes...he allows death to come into the world, and pain in childbirth, and weeds where people would farm. Why the other animals also have to put up with the unjust punishment dished out to Adam and Eve is anyone's guess."God only knows" "cough". They didn't foul up.
Things go from bad to worse, as humans follow their propensities and genetic programming(Thanks God) They squabble, and act like the primitive peoples they are. God get's annoyed and thinks this whole deal was a mistake...again...perfect beings don't make mistakes... he decided to reboot the planet's life. Once again the other lifeforms have to suffer because God get's mad at humans for being what he allowed them to become because he didn't raise or educate The first two properly in the first place... oh then there's the whole incest thing... with A &E 's kid having no one to procreate wit except their siblings and parents. This is not good for mentally and physically healthy offspring after a few generations because of inbreeding. Is it any wonder, that by the time of Noah, humans were pretty messed up?
So God decides to wash those humans right out of his hair...of course the other lifeforms who didn't sign up for this get drowned along with the humans not allowed aboard the ark. Women children, babies, men...all drowned. Genocide one. There will be other smaller bouts of murder done by God, or on his orders later on... How many toddlers and babies do you think were actively sinning and deserved mass murder?Instead of starting fresh, God uses his tainted old stock of humans to replenish the human population. Incest again, not to mention not understanding that the Noah family would carry that damned curse right through the flood. How could God not understand genetics or his own curse?
Of course, since the original sin remained within this tiny new founder population nothing changed. God also, by introducing this massive bottleneck in the human population allowed for recessive genetic traits a much higher chance of being expressed in this tiny new group of humans that would be the stock from which all subsequent generations would arise. How could God not understand the way genes work? How inbreeding causes problems? I am thinking that the majority of diseases and genetic abnormalities and bad mutations come from this ... that is if you want to actually try and take these Biblical stories to be true
If you try to use any critical thinking whatsoever when looking at the stories of the Bible, forget ti. You'll have to fully suspend your disbelief, and rationalise, and cherry pick through the whole thing if you want to find a deity that isn't a complete wanker who lies about being perfect, does a lousy job of looking after his creations. Blames the victims for being inexperienced and ignorant, when they had no options for betterment beyond using the one thing they were forbidden... then to make things worse they are cursed, and through all human time...and then to eternal torture id they maybe actually use the free will app he installed in their brains... Yeah..you can use it, but if you do, and you don't decide to worship me..you are going to be eternal toasted crispy critters. So no to actual freewill, because using it means something far worse the blue screen of death or the blinking red ring of death ;) Basically bloatware, if you are going to buy the Bible storyline...Is it any wonder that non believers tend to regard the Christians(and other religious types who meddle in education and politics and try to dismantle education and science) with pity, anger, frustration, a fair bit of bemusement, and outright incredulity at how easily some people can be taken in by such ridiculous stories.
Certainly, it was understandable back when no one knew anything much about what we could consider science.Humans make up stories when they haven't got facts, because they have a need to know explore and try to understand the world around them. Power over others, self empowerment, making up reasons why traditions and rituals and laws must be followed...use the god club and wield it often to keep people fearful of eternal as well as earthly retribution if they don't toe the line and do as the kings and priests say is the will of God...That was then...this is now. We know why the rain falls, why the grass is green, why stars cannot fall to earth,why the earth cannot be a measly years old...We have information the the writers of the Bible did not have, and neither it seems did their "perfect, all knowing all present and all powerful God". Funny that, how the God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslim never knows/knew anything more than his followers and always has the same bias towards things as was common to the time period. It should make you wonder....
Because of free will, he gave them the choice to decide God or sin, James 1:13
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
Resheed, Adom was created perfect but temptation still tempts and God tests our love for him. James 1:13
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
sin is "sin against God", He decided what a sin is , He's the Boss. God can't sin because sin is "sin against God " u see?? He is good . How can God sin? who would He sin against? He's the absolute Boss, He decided what a sin against Himself is.
ArchAngel Arcane wow this was deep
God didn't arbitrarily set a standard of righteousness and sin, He is the standard of righteousness, and anything contrary to his nature and character is sinful.
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: /James 1 13
now who ever said your bible wasnt messed with. Popes have appearently proof that god is real or doesnt exist underneath the chaple or cathedral. Read the bible, look at "Jesus", do research and look at Cesar Borgia.
@@seemfancy That is a painting, not the Bible.
Biblically speaking, what the new testament says aligns with information (Torah) dated before the first Pope existed.
We have enough quotes from early early (early) Christians that we can piece the Bible together with to know what was believed in the 1st century before there was a Pope or 'roman catholics' so to speak.
We also have a bible from the 2nd or 3rd century I believe so it would have had to be changed in about 3 generations by some high up authorities who decided this change.
The Bible was not in the control of a group of powerful ppl. Everyone wrote their own copy and had their own. If high up people changed it, then the manuscripts found in old abandoned cities would have contradicted what we have today by now.
Let me know your thoughts on what I said.
And even if Lucifer somehow got the impulse to rebel, why would he continue to do so when he knows that an All powerful All knowing God knows what he's doing? Why start a fight you know you're going to lose??
Yearning to know the Devils thoughts can be a dangerous thing.
Here is a similar question, if heaven was without sin, how did Lucifer have the sinful thoughts to think and do what he did?
Edwin Bunda YES! Thank you!!!
Edwin Bunda EXACTLY I neeed a decent explanation😪😪😪😪
I don't know the answer to that, but have some questions that might narrow down what the answer could be, going on the definition that sin is separation from God. Is giving a choice the same thing as creating the wrong choice? I thought currently heaven is without sin, and the angels no longer have choice. Previously they had free will. Free will means there had to be some possibility for separation from God, however small. I don't think that means God created the separation, only the possibility. Otherwise we're just robots. If Lucifer could not have sinful thoughts, that means God was controlling his thoughts and he did not have free will. Given the option, how he chose separation idk
yoyomojodave But god is all knowing so he knew Lucifer would rebel and destroy mankind before he even created him. So who’s really to blame for sin?
He was in Eden I believe. It says so in Ezekiel 28:13 onward.
That's why it says in Isaiah that he said in his heart "I will ASCEND into heaven" etc etc. But I believe he was on an assignment. When the thought entered his heart, he allowed it to germinate and corrupt him. God gave all of his creation free will. And the angels who rebel chose their lust over their Creator
My opinion is that evil is vital for our free will to choose God freely in order that we are not robots but have real love for Him.
We will never know how until we meet Christ in heaven
Where exactly does one get to "Ask Pastor John"? Like who is asking these questions?
chigozie123 you can download his app called "ask pastor john" and ask questions there.
Evil came from within Satan himself when he saw his wisdom and beauty given to him by God. It begun in pride and of his position in heaven wanting for more up to the desire of reaching the position of God. This evil is already there in the beginning of creation of man that is why he was able to deceive Eve and Adam. Let us read what Jesus said in , John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
It says in James that the Lord does not tempt anyone to sin
I usually end up doing this-commenting before I hear the complete video (I'm at 4:44). But something I thought of a couple times was, since Lucifer did sin and fall, once I am with my Savior in eternity, would it be possible for me to sin? I know how contemptible my flesh is, and in eternity it will be gone, so I don't think I'd have any problem. But it's the possibility that one of us would have the ability to sin in heaven, that so haunts my mind. This topic is truly a deep mystery. I better listen to the rest before writing my next thought... Okay, here's where I differ with some hyper-Calvanists Yes, God is Sovereign over all things. But how can we who are finite assume we know certain things about angels that has not been revealed? It does not diminish God's sovereignty to think, perhaps, angelic beings have more freedom of will than man? God still had foreknowledge, assigning us a Savior before creation, knowing sin would arise in Saten, who perhaps had been created with the capacity to sin, but given every reason & circumstance not to sin. Mankind's wills are only free within the parameters God has set. Perhaps angels have different parameters? I may not have expressed that clearly enough-need more coffee, blessings.
True indeed , who is asking the question oh thou Lucifer how have down fallen seems to me the Mystery is also a mystery to that person? I really think God knows everything but could it be he didn’t have a clue to how Lucifer got that first sinful thought?
What a Beautiful Mystery our God is!
ChristandI45 sin is "sin against God", He decided what a sin is , He's the Boss. God can't sin because sin is "sin against God " u see?? He is good . How can God sin? who would He sin against? He's the absolute Boss, He decided what a sin against Himself is.
ArchAngel Arcane yes but God has a character and has made everything to be according to Him.
ArchAngel Arcane
God is not a Mystery at all... All man is created in Gods image... Our morals are God
you mean made up and fake?
The story of Job seems to suggest to me that allowing evil temporary and limited free rein can sometimes be useful to God's purposes.
I think of the state where the "inclination" to sin exists... as being a "Godless" vacuum. Where the individual is inclined, by "pressure", to, like a black hole, implode upon oneself. Sin is not the act. Sin is the moral implosion of the will when the presence of God is removed or just absent. And sin is like a moral implosion. It's a "natural" occurrence based on the properties of good and evil. Good is a positive, expanding force. Evil is simply what results in the absence of good, where there is still the pressure of some kind of "natural" design. That's what sin is, at least for human beings. The things we do are not evil in themselves, but are evil when done without the positive and expanding pressure/motivation of the Holy Spirit which sanctifies and is pure. The absence of the Holy Spirit creates a vacuum where the only "pressure" is the "natural design" searching for an avenue of expression and actualization. In this setting the will can't help but sin. It's not a direct creation of God, I gather it thus frees God of direct moral accountability, perhaps. But it's not an "out", as God is sovereign. I don't know that I have it right. It just seems "logical" to me.
Okay, I saw some of the comments about free will and choice. I believe we do have a choice. We only have capacity to choose because He does. And I think it's proven either way, in obedience and disobedience. The things surrounding mysteries are only shadows of the mystery that God Himself is! In Him is hidden ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3)! I believe His glory is all inspiring even in His absences or what He chooses to withhold is as compelling as His revelation because there is no other like Him. He is the only Truth! And there are real dangers, even eternal ones! I believe (even with His angels) it's all a love faith and trust issue, which at the heart speaks of love, which speaks of choice. I believe like in Gods restrictions his commands laws etc which in themselves are reflections of Him but are not Him, that though God is omnipresent there are ways that He is very hidden from us. Like, right now He is with us and that truth is manifest in our mere existence and often manifest in many other evident ways as well especially for the believer, yet there is still a way He is very hidden at the same time. How can an omnipresent person be hidden? Why being with us we still have to seek Him?! And I believe that in these apparent paradoxes, the enemy works and our limited view and knowledge presents the test for the creature, which I believe at root is not only a test but an invitation, faith and love are the issue. And I believe the same is true for the angels.
OKAY😶THIS NEXT PART IS LONG...ER!!!!!😊
Ezekiel 28 gives the description that seem to speak of a man at first but then it quickly become clear he is speaking of a spiritual being who is created full of wisdom and perfect in beauty (Ez 28:12) and was the covering cherub of God (Ez 28:16). Though created perfect, by mere creation must be inferior and thereby restricted in some way, I believe the Bible gives us deep insights into the mystery of iniquity as called in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. May not give us the exhaustive background, but a glimpses. I also believe our own sin and battles gives us glimpses as well, and in us we know like Paul said in Romans 3:5-8 that Gods truth and glory abounds true even through lies. He cannot change and abides faithful even if we deny Him! He can make choices and set boundaries that create situations that require faith and trust for the creature. He did it with Adam and Eve Abraham and everyone and I believe He did it with the angels as well, 1 Peter 1:12 says there are things that they (the angels) earnestly desire to look into, as to indicate there is still something hidden from these beings who have access to His manifest presence in a way we are yet to know! Ephesians also speaks of the mystery and minifold wisdom of God that is now being made manifest to principalities and powers through the church, another indication that they are obviously limited in their knowledge and can learn! I do not believe mere testing is Gods main goal, I believe love is! Weather we will look away from Him or not! Choose self or Him. We and angels seem to manifestly have this choice! Without faith it is impossible to please Him! God is so absolutely God and holy that He can't fail nor can His purposes be thwarted and to believe this requires trust/faith. Because God can't be mocked Galatians 6:7. I believe that even in satan's rebellion and lies, he is still proving God to be all glorious, all good and most desirable and even most beautiful. I believe the Bible gives us a glimpse into this through Lucifer's now Satan's own words when he said I will be like the most High in Isaiah 14:14. I believe these give us a glimpse into what happened, he was somehow restricted in his desire which was at one time pure unto God yet I believe what this creature desired and tried to take for himself God has freely given us and that is to be in Gods likeness (which should humble us, we cannot boast in pride because it was freely given to us by His grace and sustained by His grace). Ephesians also tells us He chose us before the world began! (Long before we sinned or Satan rebelled) to be conformed to the image of His Son! And the gift is as free as God Himself! He cannot be black balled or made to do what He does not want to. This tells me there is something deeper going on! Though the angels are referred to sometimes as sons of God, yet the Bible never says any other creature was made in God' image and likeness, but we are and we (believers) are called His bride which speaks of a position of intimate knowledge and nearness! Scripture says He took on Himself the nature of man not an angel! You see God made his intentions clear from the beginning in creating man and woman husband and wife we have to remember all things were made by Christ for Christ and to Christ are ALL things HE is the answer! It gets deep But God Himself is the answer to all mysteries and He desire trust and love from us, all His creatures! The thing that amazes me about the whole thing is that He still remains a mystery to be searched out the more we learn about Him, He somehow becomes (I speak as a man) more beautiful and more powerful and more worthy!!! He's mind blowing!
JesusIStheonlyway WOW!
To think that Jesus, fully human yet fully perfect as only God is will forever be human.
Deep respect for admitting he does not know. That is the very definition of a mystery.
I suspect it was from the fact he was the covering angel and saw the glances of some of his fellow angels. He noticed he was superior to them and pride took root.
I suspect that the whole story was made up like all the other myths and legends, since there is zero evidence that gods or devils exist.
I suspect it is all a fairy tale that grown adults should not still believe in. You grew out of Santa and the Tooth Fairy. You should grow out of this ridiculous belief too.
@Austin Powers Glad you are willing to provide answers. I would like to know what EVIDENCE you have that your invisible god exists. If you were claiming that invisible pink unicorns exist, I would require evidence for them before I trusted what you were claiming. Same here. You say an invisible god exists, so please don't dodge the question and show me the evidence you have that proves that claim.
@Austin Powers The FIRST few lines of your reply are complete lies. NONE of those theories in science say ANYTHING about god existing or not existing, because scientific theories can only deal with things for which we have EVIDENCE. None of those theories say "explosion = creation. You are straight up LYING. You don't even know that the "big bang" (actually called inflation theory) is not about some "explosion" happening in space.
No one in science said that random events with no constraints produced anything complex. You OBVIOUSLY don't understand gravity, nuclear forces, chemical bonding, or natural selection. You don't need to keep LYING and PRETENDING that you understand science. I teach Biology Physics and Chemistry for a living, so I am already well aware that you have no real education in science. You don't even understand high school level concepts. What you HAVE demonstrated immediately with your reply is that you are willing to LIE and PRETEND to know things about science, and that you have no real evidence for god.
Now what? Should I continue reading your irrational philosophical ramblings too?
You are basically making one giant "argument from ignorance" fallacy. You are basically saying "I don't understand science or logic.... therefore god did it."
What a PATHETIC fail on your part. You started by LYING and PRETENDING to have evidence for god, but all you had was a bag full of your own ignorance. You are obviously too ignorant to understand how ignorant you sound to someone with a science background.
Whats worse, is that even if you could prove every theory in science wrong, it still would not be evidence for your imagined deity. You would still need to provide the evidence you failed to provide for your invisible god.
@Austin Powers I will take my own advice on who is an "educated man". No one is here to do YOUR homework for you. YOU are the one PRETENDING to know that a god exists, so YOU are the one who needs to go look for evidence to support your ridiculous supernatural beliefs.
You have gone from bragging that you definitely had evidence for god, to LYING over and over again about scientific concepts you don't understand, to cowardly trying to send ME on a wild goose chase to find the evidence YOU lied about having. What a PATHETIC PATHETIC FRAUD you have turned out to be. Shame on you.
This is a VERY interesting question, with this in mind I have a question... in the New Age (restored Earth/Heaven) where sin will no longer exist.... will it be possible for those with God to commit sin again e.g be proud or selfish.... since Satan committed sin in a realm and state of existence above ours (spiritual). obviously I have my own thoughts but I'm interested in peoples thoughts?
Many thanks - bless ya -Mat
Mat & Est i think there will no longer be temptation. no exposure of the flesh , no Internet so no one will put more time on their phones. no alcohol or drugs- no addiction. not that many possessions like money so no greed of course he will teach us about love they nieghtbor n no vengeance. basically everything that is now work be around when God comes back we will have a very less chance of sin to ever happen
Mat & Est to ask that question is essentially to ask - "will Christ sin?". All who are present in that age are in Christ and in incorruptible bodies. As the body is Christ, for any one of us to even harbour the possibility of sin would mean that Christ did as we will be totally one with him.
Not possible.
that's a very good explanation. cheers
Mat & Est whoever it was that your reply was meant for, it was a generous and kind one. Bless you guys. Love in Christ. See you there!
Mat & Est - ChristianVloggers I wanna give an opinion on this that i shared with a course that my wife and i took a few years ago and this same question came up in a roundtable. Think about it like this. If God wanted to give man free will which we kno he did. How can u have free will unless there are opposing options. So if God is a perfect being perfectly light with no darkness perfectly good with no evil perfectly righteous without any faults....then wouldn't he have to creat the exact opposite in order for man to choose from. He could have easily made us to think and do only good things and never bad.....but then that would be a robot.....not a creation made by someone who loves it unconditionally. He had to give mankind a choice that is the exact opposite of what he is and stands for. There is a scripture that confirms God said i created evil.....he said it.....his own words. Therefore he is taking responsibility for creating the Devil. He isn't shying away from that.....and he also isn't saying that it was a mistake ti create Satan bcuz God doesn't make mistakes. He intended to create a perfect angel that would serve him for a while and then he intended for that angel to become filled with pride and rebel and turn other angels against him and people against him. God owns that in the Bible. So i take it as it had to be done in order for God to say i truly have given human beings free will to either love me and obey me.....or to reject me and turn away.....but its their choice no matter what. As parents we kno the dangers of letting our kids go outside the house and play.....the children have no idea what's out there. We as parents have been there and experienced it.....but still we allow them go. We warn them of the dangers knowing full well they will experiment with things anyway. But we don't lock them in the house and never let them experience it. That is true love.....and God is the ultimate parent. Just my opinion on the matter
true words. I also thougt about this hard, and my thoughts to this question are: Imagine God created a perfect world without any sorrow or evil. We could never appreciate the eternity where we would only knew good and pleasure. Adam and Eve couldn’t appreciate a good world without knowing evil and what they have lost. But imagine entering a perfect world, after we lived a life in a world full of evil, trouble, effort, sorrow, illness, pain. You finally know what is good, what is love, what is happiness. We could never appreciate Gods Love for us, if we didnt see how he poured out his blood for us trough his son Jesus Christ. ❤
I think he wanted to be like God and anyone who wants to be like God will automatically sin against God because God is Holy And is the embodiment of all that is Good so when Lucifer desired to be like God and he broke the first commandment of God. And because Lucifer desired to be like God who is Holy he will become sinful.
there's a lot of things you're forgetting about your wonderful omnipotent omniscient all-powerful all morally good just omnipresent God...
I may be grasping at straws here, but if we take into account Isaiah's suggestion that we turn to sin when God cloaks himself from us and the belief that Lucifer wanted to be like God, could it be that Lucifer, at first so full of love for God, suddenly found himself shocked and hurting and reeling at not being able to perceive God's presence and as a response tried to make himself LIKE God? Kind of like how a lot of women tend to seek out romantic relationships that model the relationship they had with their earthly fathers?
That's exactly what Adam and Eve tried to do in eating fruit that came from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" at the Garden of Eden, which was forbidden.
God punished both of them along with their descendants for committing their ultimate sin, Pride.
But they didn't hardly KNOW anything?!
He became competitive. He was not created with inequity, bit it was Found in him.
Where does it say Lucifer was perfect? The only one who is perfect is God. I think it's dangerous theology to attribute Satan with perfection
Ezekiel 28:15- Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
You're both right and wrong, because our spirits are made perfect at salvation THROUGH Jesus.
Peyton Singh I agree (and just freely stating my opinion) with the fact that when you are saved, you go through a process of sanctification (a process in which we are being perfected) until Christ comes. But we still sin everyday, therefore it does not make us perfect and holy, which can only be attributed to God.
Peyton Singh After a person becomes born again, their human spirit as pertaining to its own self nature is not born again or made perfect, and is still prone to sin. However their spirit is born again and save through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit ( salvation is something that is initiated through faith, but there is still the destination to reach also, by continuing in the faith. So it is also an under going process that still require our faith until our spirits are made perfect at their absence from the body and are present with the Lord).
Everything happened in the garden the way God, the all knowing creater God wanted ut to, he created them all just the way he wanted them. Why did he do it? Because he wants us to learn to instinctively choose good, and he already had cows.
I think the absence of God is a perfect answer John. It displays perfectly our error in believing that we are owed something or that God is in the wrong when he is absent. It perfectly displays his grace (which we do not deserve) and his mercy (which he shows us without ever having to)
I lean to think we tend to hold a view that we are deserving, and is that true? Did God have to create me? Did he have to ever create man? I think he did so from his goodness and mercy. If I was never created I wouldn’t even have an opinion of God. I wouldn’t matter.
I think we can see that God graciously created us to love us. To have someone to love. His absence from any single being would lead to destruction.
And if that is how God brings forth sin, (Through absence) then who’s to argue? Arguing that would be assuming God had to create you and give you an explanation for all things as if someone is holding a gun to Gods head forcing him to.
I think that is a horrible way to view creation. As if he had to create us. He never had to. He did so willingly and graciously. Think of all the wonderful moments you’ve shared with him and with loved ones. Even through the hurt and the pain. We have an amazing God.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
When I asked myself about this passage of scripture I instantly thought to myself it was Satan who created evil but then a question arose in me that opened up doors: When has Satan ever created anything ? Then I realized in order to use words like "form" and "make" , one has to be present, but you don't have to be present to "create" something, for example ; when the head of the household is gone(absent) the children go astray(evil). The absence of God definitely explains everything for me from how God created us to God telling Adam to choose the tree of life. God just doesn't exist and that's it, there is a government and an order behind His existence and apart from that which is the absence of God , there is just the opposite which is chaos, calamity, darkness and evil.
It means nothing if not done with God's love ❤