How Bikes Are Made - Understanding Different Welds
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- Опубликовано: 19 янв 2023
- Lugs, fillet brazing, TIG welding… what makes each style of building bike frames unique? Neil had some questions, so he pedaled down to the Goodday + Curiously shop and stuck a camera in front of frame builder Chris Besnia to get some answers. In our latest video, Chris covers everything from lugs (and why he stays away from them), to his fillet brazing process, to the difficulties of TIG welding, and much more...
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Neil Beltchenko ( / neil_beltchenko )
Geometry: 150lbs, 5'9.5", 32" inseam
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This video was supported by Salsa Cycles. Looking for on bike storage solutions, check out the Salsa Anything Cage HD Kit: www.salsacycles.com/gear/exp_series_anything_cage_hd_kit?.com&
There is a typo in the thumbnail ;)
I loved the look of lugged frames. Too bad not many are built anymore 😢
Fascinating. Part of me still desires a brazed frame🤔
brazed frames are just as strong if not stronger. production costs are what drives the move to welds.
Paul Brodie the legend has some really good videos on welding here on You Tube.
This is so cool. I’d call it bikepacking adjacent. So glad I watched
That was very educational and ... I realized my upper limit of tinkering.
Filet brazing for the win.
I'm having Chris make me a frame, and I'm undecided on tig or fillet.... such a hard decision.
go for brazed lugs.
Excellent! I just had 2 custom Manzanita hardtails made (his and hers) and this is exactly how Nick manufactures his bikes 👍
Sweet! Super informative - enjoyed the cycling slant to learning about welding. I spied a Viral Dérive during the anything cage spot :)
I have a 78 Schwinn Superior set up as my touring bike. Probably 100k miles on the frame. Filet brazed in Chicago. Beautifully joined. The frame looks like it was carved out of a single hunk of metal.
This was awesome, y'all! Thanks for putting it together. Even working with bikes for my whole life, this answered many questions about welding and steel. Another reason I'm a member of Bikepacking---content like this!! ~Phunky
Super interesting, thanks for the video
Awesome & Thanks :) TIG sounds great :)
Great video, thanks!
So cool! 🙌🏻
You have big + from me for showing Polish Orłowski frame at 2:18
Love your work sir....want to learn...
Super interesting, thank you very much!
I've always been curious about how the lugs themselves are made, machined, molded, welded, or some combo?
Lugs are typically investment cast.
Yes, usually cast to keep them inexpensive. Some people make their own lugs though, in a process called "bi-laminate" where custom lugs are made of larger tubing. Lots of custom builders start with a cast lug and then hand file them to customize them. Most cast lugs (well any cast part) need to be cleaned up or sanded
Lost wax investment casting
It seems common to post heat treat aluminum frames but I’m curious if anyone is heat treating any steel frames post tig welding. Seems contradictory to buy heat treated tubing if the welds will compromise its properties. While this may be negligible I wonder if a small amount of unintentional aneeling occurs, allowing the welded area to flex a bit more rather than crack. Food for thought
High end "air hardening" steel tubing is designed around tig welding to harden as it cools from the TIG process. So, post-weld heat treating is not necessary. More common is not an annealed weld, but if you overheat it or "cook" it, it actually over-hardens and becomes brittle. Annealing requires a very slow and controlled cooling process. But even low-end cromo tubing that isn't heat treated doesn't need to be to perform well. Heat treating enables thinner tubing profiles. A good tig weld won't get the vast majority of the tube above a warm temperature. Aluminum by contrast has to be "artificially aged" by heat treat in order to not be soft. But this is a low heat compared to steel.
Al frames are not post weld heat treated - it would be too expensive and they would probably warp. The heat affected zone adjacent to the weld extends only a few mm in an automated MIG weld . The weld itself is just an Al-Si casting and it is by far the weakest material - hence they tend to be thicker to compensate for the low strength. Most aluminium tubing used on bikes is 6061 ( Mg Si) with some 7005 (Zn Mg)- these are low allow content and the strengthening from solution treatment quench and artificial ageing is quite good it is nowhere near what is possible with alloys such as 7075 (Mg Zn Cu).
The Al tubes are heat treated at the extrusion plant then cold drawn and butted which increases their strength above that of heat treated alone. The terms T6 refers to solution treated , quenched and aged, T651 and T691 is T6 plus post heat treat cold working . Any post welding heat treatment will negate the strengthening imparted by the cold working.
That video should be double the length!
As a professional tig welder I sure vote Tig.
WOW...
Mone Bikes are just that, Mone. Brass braze.....although in my reality I can't afford that shit so I get the tig from the factory, aka Craigslist 90s MTBs.
Honestly this makes me want a hand-built bike made but only if I get to sit in to watch for a 1 hour welding session.
I’m having Chris build me up a hard tail, and I hope I can do a few welds.
People always comment that you can get a car for the price of a bike these days. Dunno bout you, but Id rather pay someone like Chris to hand build my bike with love, than pay the bank for some robot in china to weld my car together WORSE than he does... Great work bro.
Lugged frames can look great but you are limited with the angles you can choose.
The torch is a whole lot easier to teach yourself, esp compared to TIG.
Filler material for brazing is bronze not brass. Trying to braze with brass will make you very sad.
as far as electricity era is concerned, i think lugging is the obvious choice, fillet brazing is bs honestly, totally not reliable if youre thrashing a bike.